The Endless Resupply exploit + fix

[Canaris]

As most of you know players can use the equipment terminals to endlessly repair and reheal themselves even right in the middle of being shot, giving a very unfair advantage to defenders in certain instances.

I had a bit of a rage quit last night over it but instead of letting my fuming get he better of me I set about thinking of how to resolve it.

Instead of just slapping a cool down on the use of the term I realised that PS1 already had solved this issue

Medical Terminals/Stations an absurdly simply fix, add them into all outposts and towers near the spawn rooms or special dedicated areas and add a more advanced version into the major bases.

I think a wall mounted design similar to the Half Life franchise is better than the walk in ones from PS1, you'd always get that jerk who hogged it or went afk in it ;)

Make it so resupplying at equipment terms doesn't heal/repair armour again like PS1 and you need to be more tactical.

Unlike the PS1 version that heals you automatically when your standing in it, you need to channel heal yourself pressing the use key but is disrupted by taking damage.
So if someone does sneaks up behind you and shoots you in the back he can kill you.

Like or Hate?

[Hosp]

Not a bad idea. Though i think the devs are well aware of the issue and are more focused on bigger stability issues rather than minor gameplay exploits.

[Canaris]

I don't get how this is even an exploit, this was done all the time in PS1.

resupplying at terms did not fill your HP back up and only fixed your armour if you swapped out to a different armour suit, like from Rexo to Agile or MAX.

Now with MAX's finally get a cooldown this is going to be even more important.

[IronMole]

Or just make it so switching classes doesn't refill your health?

[EvilNinjadude]

I've already proposed this once in stream chat. My proposal was to refill health only (for non-Max units) and refill Ammo only for MAX units. Shields would regenerate anyway, and being alone as a MAX was never a good Idea.

This is my proposal, then, though the hold-e-to-heal Idea is nice too.

[Hamma]

Or just make it so switching classes doesn't refill your health?

This is already in the works they just didn't have in the code to support it.

Not a bad idea though from the OP :D

[AgtPanda]

I had a similar problem but then I shot the perp in the head...

But really, I reckon the devs are making a fix, like Hamma said, so we don't have to worry. Because the devs run on coffee and team spirit, you can expect it to be put in the game Soon.

[Hosp]

This is already in the works they just didn't have in the code to support it.

Not a bad idea though from the OP :D
:love:
Damn I'm good.

[Canaris]

awesome to hear it's being addressed :D

[Qwan]

They know of the exploit, I actually got in a fight with a NC max who stayed close to his terminal and kept running back to it to resupply. I know the dev have heard of this and probably have a fix for it already. I think as the beta goes along and we report issues like these they will come to us in patches like everything else. Gotta love beta

[Tatwi]

This will make the game even more of an attackers paradise (and defenders demoralization) than it already is.

Don't like to lose against a defense? The flip side of that is don't like to lose against an offense. Removing quick resupply and heal routes the defense, particularly with spawn generators being destroyable, but it does nothing to hinder the offense, who is free to MAX crash, then respawn fully healed from a Gal, etc.

Anyhow, I don't understand why people don't see how imbalanced the game is for defenders and why they get upset with the terminal issue, especially give how most defenses fail, save for the ticket system wins.

[Blackwolf]

This will make the game even more of an attackers paradise (and defenders demoralization) than it already is.

Don't like to lose against a defense? The flip side of that is don't like to lose against an offense. Removing quick resupply and heal routes the defense, particularly with spawn generators being destroyable, but it does nothing to hinder the offense, who is free to MAX crash, then respawn fully healed from a Gal, etc.

Anyhow, I don't understand why people don't see how imbalanced the game is for defenders and why they get upset with the terminal issue, especially give how most defenses fail, save for the ticket system wins.

MAX suits are getting a timer and might not be pullable from Galaxies. People won't be able to spawn in them either.

I'd rather see MAX suits removed entirely then this ill-thought out solution TBH. They are becoming worthless.

[Tatwi]

MAX suits are getting a timer and might not be pullable from Galaxies. People won't be able to spawn in them either.

I'd rather see MAX suits removed entirely then this ill-thought out solution TBH. They are becoming worthless.

I was thinking more along these lines:

Pull MAX units at WG.
Put MAXes in Galaxy.
Land Galaxy and flood capture points and spawn tube gen with MAXes.
Attackers who die in sacrificial MAXes respawn at Galaxy and continue the zerg, while defenders can neither respawn nor heal/resupply.


Attackers Paradise, Defenders Demoralization (unless Medics and Engineers become invincible).

[Higby]

We're making the equip terminals no longer heal players to full.

We are probably going to add a very low regen to base health which would let you heal up over a minute or two so you do have a way to get back up to max health without requiring a medic or consumable health kit. This would be pretty useless for battles, so medics are still absolutely vital, but it will let you be more sustainable in the longer term gameplay. This MIGHT also come as an implant with some basic very weak health regeneration.

[Timithos]

How about at least "heal to some"?

[EvilNinjadude]

See? See? :)

Regen would be useful; I spend my time as an LA flipping tiles all over the map that nobody is fighting over. Long drops constantly damage me, so a small regen will be useful indeed.

[basti]

We're making the equip terminals no longer heal players to full.

We are probably going to add a very low regen to base health which would let you heal up over a minute or two so you do have a way to get back up to max health without requiring a medic or consumable health kit. This would be pretty useless for battles, so medics are still absolutely vital, but it will let you be more sustainable in the longer term gameplay. This MIGHT also come as an implant with some basic very weak health regeneration.

Implant sounds good, but absolute NO to health regen for everyone. Even the smallest amount is bad.

Ive had a fight yesterday at the crown. Me against the whole TR army up there. All i did was sneak around, kill a guy, hide again, etc. It was intense, and every piece of health I lost during a firefight made it even more intense.
It was in fact the best moment i had in Planetside 2 so far. ;)


If you would like to go crazy: med terms, just as PS1. Place them here and there and you should be fine.

[Chefkoch]

Implant sounds good, but absolute NO to health regen for everyone. Even the smallest amount is bad.
[...]
If you would like to go crazy: med terms, just as PS1. Place them here and there and you should be fine.

Med Terms are fine. If everyone gets some kind of basic heal we will have the infamous "sit near the backdoor afraid to rush in" all over us again.

[NapalmEnima]

If you are at an equipment terminal, you can swap to medic, fix yourself with the PBAoE heal, and then switch back.

Certainly not instant, but faster than waiting around for some low-ball non-combat regeneration system.

So what about the MAX->X transition?

[Hamma]

I would agree with basti, make it an implant requirement not a base thing. I don't like the idea of health regen at all, there should be a tradeoff.

[Serpent]

Is there a specific number on the cooldown for MAX? If there's one thing I hate it's seeing infantry becoming unpopular by cheap and in some situations ridiculously powerful units such as, you got it, the MAX.

[MonsterBone]

Everything should have a very slow regen. Basti will still sneak around like the rest of the VS and hide.

[Stardouser]

This is really only a concern with MAXes, because the TTK on everyone else is so low it's not practical to use terminals to heal while being shot.

[raw]

We're making the equip terminals no longer heal players to full.

We are probably going to add a very low regen to base health which would let you heal up over a minute or two so you do have a way to get back up to max health without requiring a medic or consumable health kit. This would be pretty useless for battles, so medics are still absolutely vital, but it will let you be more sustainable in the longer term gameplay. This MIGHT also come as an implant with some basic very weak health regeneration.

Noooo, please no health regeneration. It completely destroyed T:A already, don't do it to Planetside. This isn't some console shooter.

If this takes up an implant slot, we probably can talk about this. PROBABLY. But I'd rather see some big medic recruitment drive than any of this regeneration stuff. It's just terrible to gameplay. >:|

[Jonny]

I would also say no to health regen even if it is minute. It sounds like a lazy fix to a larger problem which should have been spotted before the beta even started. There has to be a better mechanic.

[Scopedog]

Yeah health regeneration should only be available from med kits not terminals how small doesn't matter its the principles, and the tradeoffs should balance it. The medic should be the only option apart from med kits. 25% health back at terminals I'm not sure about.

You need a medic at that point anyway so why bother, I'll vote for medic and kits only, implants maybe as they take a valuable slot, and would be good for black ops type players, who can't have a medic on hand. :blowup:


Oh and absolutely NO to base health regeneration without some kind of tradeoffs like implants or med kits, however small it takes away from the medic class you should be forced to seek them out if you choose not to take either option.

[Froglicker]

No to innate regen please, no matter how basic, unless it's an implant.

I'd rather have Medical/first-aid Terminals that regen health while actively used instead. Make it so that you it takes 10-20sec to regen health to full, and maybe must be actively used (player must face it and hold E) in order to prevent use during active combat. Stick one in each outpost/tower and a few in each facility. Problem solved.

Edit: First-aid terminals could be at outposts/towers and regen health slowly (over 20seconds or so), while Medical terminals could be in facilities and regen faster (10seconds or so). Or maybe mix and match: outposts get 1 First-aid Terminal, towers get 1 Medical Terminal or 2 First Aids, and facilities have have 1-2 Medical terminals with a few First-aid terminals interspersed throughout. Just throwing out ideas.

I just like the idea of having more secondary objectives to take out and hinder your enemy, or hack (when implemented) to benefit your allies

Edit again: Regenning shields were added in the first place to appeal better to console/CoD players, I don't see why you need to go further and have regenning health.

[Helwyr]

We're making the equip terminals no longer heal players to full.

We are probably going to add a very low regen to base health which would let you heal up over a minute or two so you do have a way to get back up to max health without requiring a medic or consumable health kit. This would be pretty useless for battles, so medics are still absolutely vital, but it will let you be more sustainable in the longer term gameplay. This MIGHT also come as an implant with some basic very weak health regeneration.

This sounds like a good fix, also keep the terminals away from capture points, the biggest abuse of the terminals for healing is places like The Crown because it's right up the stairs from the capture point.

I strongly disagree with those saying no to low base health regen, it's a good idea so long as it's no where near as fast the shield regen. Infantry should not be so reliant on one class type (Medics) to be able to heal their own health between fights.

If there's no base regen an alternative of allowing all non-MAX Infantry to cert in a single target heal gun (like PS!), and have it replace grenades or something not key to the class's function. Or a third option is make the Med kits and Restoration kits a lot better, 50 certs for one heal that replaces something like C4 is very pricey. Give the player a choice as to what it replaces and give 3 heal charges per 50 certs invested, and 50 resources gives 3 kits and it will be reasonable.

[Renegadeknight]

If they want a regen I think one similar to the ps1 implant would be nice. Some sort of meter determines how much you can heal(in ps1 it used stamina) and than you have to wait for it to recharge to use it again.Don't really like a implantless heal, as it kind of takes away from the medics use.

[Helwyr]

If they want a regen I think one similar to the ps1 implant would be nice. Some sort of meter determines how much you can heal(in ps1 it used stamina) and than you have to wait for it to recharge to use it again.Don't really like a implantless heal, as it kind of takes away from the medics use.

The reliance on Medics is taking away from other classes functions, Infiltrators and LA are rarely going to be near a Medic. Nor are we all going to be playing in organized squads no matter how hard it is pushed on players. If I could wave a magic wand at Higby and make him just get rid of the Medic class altogether and give access to it's abilities through certs to other classes I would.

[Renegadeknight]

The reliance on Medics is taking away from other classes functions, Infiltrators and LA are rarely going to be near a Medic. Nor are we all going to be playing in organized squads no matter how hard it is pushed on players. If I could wave a magic wand at Higby and make him just get rid of the Medic class altogether and give access to it's abilities through certs to other classes I would.
So you want self reliance in a team bases game? Don't really like that and I'm actually someone who goes of on his own a lot. If their is no medic about you can survive pretty well depending mostly on your shields and being sneaky. One problem I had with ps1 was everyone could do every role, giving medic abilities to the other classes would be repeating this again. I'm in general against such supersoilder play. Now I don't mind an implant being added to allow people to be less dependent, like the one I previously said.

[Helwyr]

So you want self reliance in a team bases game? Don't really like that and I'm actually someone who goes of on his own a lot. If their is no medic about you can survive pretty well depending mostly on your shields and being sneaky. One problem I had with ps1 was everyone could do every role, giving medic abilities to the other classes would be repeating this again. I'm in general against such supersoilder play. Now I don't mind an implant being added to allow people to be less dependent, like the one I previously said.

People keep throwing this "Team based game" stuff out there, the "team" is the Faction. Now if you want to make it a purely squad or outfit based game and exclude everyone that doesn't play in Squads/Outfits, then fair enough, myself and lots of others simply won't play.

The fact of the matter is you don't need to make the game artificially more difficult to run around solo to make being in an organized squad an advantage. Having a dozen people on voice playing as a single unit night after night is already going to be a massive advantage vs a dozen random guys irrespective of things like being able to self heal. What your doing isn't enabling "team" play it's dis-enabling and a big F-you to people with different playstyles and those that are simply too casual to commit to the requirements of organized outfits.

Implants should be to add something special and unique to your character, not a base requirement so that your class functions properly... As an Infiltrator I'll likely already need one Implant to block those ridiculous IRNV sights, now you want me to have one to slowly regen health as well.

[TheBladeRoden]

Trade off shield regen for health regen

[Renegadeknight]

People keep throwing this "Team based game" stuff out there, the "team" is the Faction. Now if you want to make it a purely squad or outfit based game and exclude everyone that doesn't play in Squads/Outfits, then fair enough, myself and lots of others simply won't play.

The fact of the matter is you don't need to make the game artificially more difficult to run around solo to make being in an organized squad an advantage. Having a dozen people on voice playing as a single unit night after night is already going to be a massive advantage vs a dozen random guys irrespective of things like being able to self heal. What your doing isn't enabling "team" play it's dis-enabling and a big F-you to people with different playstyles and those that are simply too casual to commit to the requirements of organized outfits.

Implants should be to add something special and unique to your character, not a base requirement so that your class functions properly... As an Infiltrator I'll likely already need one Implant to block those ridiculous IRNV sights, now you want me to have one to slowly regen health as well.
well several things. One, I go on my own alot, haven't really been playing too much in organized squads so don't assume I'm trying to force that. What I'm saying is that you should not be self reliant. Similar to how we don't have infinite ammo we shouldn't have auto heal. If your running about as a light assault/infiltrator by yourself behind the enemy you should be sneaky trying to get the drop hit and run and so on(I've done this perfectly fine as is quite a few times and survived a good while, well as light assault as infiltrator really isn't to great at well infiltrating right now.) The no self heal is not something that makes your class impossible to play, it would just be an improvement and like other improvements there should be advantages and disadvantages. If say there was an anti IRNV scope implant like you said you have to balance the pros and cons, ability to heal or better sneaking. If you feel that you can't get the job done because of your current amount of supplies either pull back to gather health/supplies or find someone who can give them to you.

Trade off shield regen for health regen That would be a bad trade off as they pretty much would be very similar. No real reason there.

[Helwyr]

Sorry Renegadeknight you may go off solo or w/e but your posts in this thread have clearly shown your colors and you're definitely not speaking in the interests of solo or casual players.

I was completely happy with the original Planetside in terms of soloing and it was fine for casual players just to jump in and get involved, and yes have a reasonable degree of self sufficiency. But for some reason you think that it's an improvement that players like me have to go around with all these handicaps.. lose shield regen for health regen? seriously lol! And what some casual player jumps in the game runs around solo fighting for his faction or even part of some random squad, but he's running around on few slivers of health after the first firefight looking for a medic player, because you think that's great gameplay?

Speaking of self sufficiency, why is that you can be an engineer and pilot and drive vehicles? What do you have to give up to be a self repairing tank gunner/driver or self repairing pilot who can easily just whiz on by to one of those ammo towers for a reload? How is they can be self sufficient but Infantry classes like Infiltrators and LA who seem purpose built for solo play cannot? Perhaps if Medics are supposed to be the only ones able to heal, Infiltrators should be the only ones to hack consoles/control points and take control of bases/outposts.. "team work" yay! :rolleyes:

Seriously this conversation is just ridiculous, some of you guys need to really stop and think about what you asking for and what's motivating you to try so hard at handicapping certain classes/playstyles.

[Renegadeknight]

Sorry Renegadeknight you may go off solo or w/e but your posts in this thread have clearly shown your colors and you're definitely not speaking in the interests of solo or casual players.

I was completely happy with the original Planetside in terms of soloing and it was fine for casual players just to jump in and get involved, and yes have a reasonable degree of self sufficiency. But for some reason you think that it's an improvement that players like me have to go around with all these handicaps.. lose shield regen for health regen? seriously lol! And what some casual player jumps in the game runs around solo fighting for his faction or even part of some random squad, but he's running around on few slivers of health after the first firefight looking for a medic player, because you think that's great gameplay?

Speaking of self sufficiency, why is that you can be an engineer and pilot and drive vehicles? What do you have to give up to be a self repairing tank gunner/driver or self repairing pilot who can easily just whiz on by to one of those ammo towers for a reload? How is they can be self sufficient but Infantry classes like Infiltrators and LA who seem purpose built for solo play cannot? Perhaps if Medics are supposed to be the only ones able to heal, Infiltrators should be the only ones to hack consoles/control points and take control of bases/outposts.. "team work" yay! :rolleyes:

Seriously this conversation is just ridiculous, some of you guys need to really stop and think about what you asking for and what's motivating you to try so hard at handicapping certain classes/playstyles.

Low health is in no way a death sentence, it really isn't. Your shields always take the damage first, and if your actually trying to be careful you would try to prevent health loss. I have survived with one health point and just shields. As for the vehicle engineer combo, I guess you do have a point there, but than again he picked an engineer to pretty much repair the vehicle. You can heal yourself as a medic similar to being able to heal your vehicle as an engineer. There are also medic packs(they're ingame now but broken) which can be used to heal yourself, and infiltrators are suppose to be able to hack equipment terms which they could resupply from(don't take that as 100% though as I'm not completely sure.). I do play solo alot and have no intention of making it unplayable(it is completely playable) I just don't like the super soldier feel. As I said before, I'm fine with self heal, but it should be a trade off for something(the other guys suggestion of shield wasn't really a good one as they pretty much fill the same role). Don't think anyone soldier should have everything. The last thing I'm going to say is if worse comes to worse die and respawn, your going to die a lot and really should except that. Worst thing that comes from dieing is a short trip from a gal or spawn.

[Ohaunlaim]

I don't know...

so now I like playing medic because I can stay alive longer,
but I run out of ammo so I actually like playing engineer,
then again I end up getting shot so I decided to stay on the outskirts of fights,
that's when I realized that the infiltrator was for me,
only, people still found and shot me,
so really, the MAX suit was my true obsession,
but I couldn't hack anything,
the best compromise was of course heavy assault, the perfect class,
only I couldn't take full advantage of my versatility,
that's when I knew that light assault beat all,
but all those shoot and scoot tactics whittled away at my health,
(go to top)

[Frotang]

Uhh how about you smarten up when your attacking and kill equip terms before you cap a base instead if whining on here. The instant resupply from equip terms is one of the best things in the game and imo its what separates the truely tactical and crafty players from the mindless shoot em up people. With proper cooldowns it would be balanced.Will be real sad to see this go away but i shouldnt be surprised it seems devs always cater to whoever cries over something.

[Renegadeknight]

I don't know...

so now I like playing medic because I can stay alive longer,
but I run out of ammo so I actually like playing engineer,
then again I end up getting shot so I decided to stay on the outskirts of fights,
that's when I realized that the infiltrator was for me,
only, people still found and shot me,
so really, the MAX suit was my true obsession,
but I couldn't hack anything,
the best compromise was of course heavy assault, the perfect class,
only I couldn't take full advantage of my versatility,
that's when I knew that light assault beat all,
but all those shoot and scoot tactics whittled away at my health,
(go to top)

Well I guess I'm just going to stop trying to convince you guys and agree to disagree as this isn't going to go anywhere. Guess we'll just have to see where the devs decide to go and how it works out in practice.

[Tatwi]

Low health is in no way a death sentence, it really isn't.
Right, and scabies are fun to have too!

Sorry, but Helwyr is right and you are wrong. People should not be overtly punished for not being interested in joining some armchair army of uber gaming nerds in a video game. If that offends your ideals, woopie, it doesn't make it any less true.

If SOE wants to make the most money possible from PS2, they're going to have to make it genuinely fun for people from all walks of life, not just the vocal minority of "hardcore gamers". Personally, I'd rather have 10 million players who play as they see fit than 15,000 players who foam at the mouth about my game.

[CutterJohn]

Vehicles currently have a slow base regen though its closer to 5 minutes to heal up. It affects absolutely no combat at all, and you are fooling yourself if you think it does.

A slow base regen for infantry will be fine.