SOE announces Alpha Squad

[stordito]

just a quick update on the beta loading screen...
seems like the gates will be open soon.

read in the lower right corner...

...BEFORE 31 Dec 2012!

http://i46.tinypic.com/2qb7tox.jpg (http://i46.tinypic.com/2qb7tox.jpg)

[Hamma]

:thumbsup:

[tzharrgh]

I'm having problem with that, cant access the site that they give :(
I want to support em the best i can.

Anyone else having a problem with that?

I seem to have a problem of a kind

[Sunrock]

Weapon unlocks... Hmm feels like P2W to me. Not that I'm surprised to see it. But it confirms there BS that this game will not be P2W.

[Hosp]

The weapon unlocks for infantry are more side-grades. However, if they unlock vehicle weapons w/ it, it becomes P2W and that's a nono.

[stordito]

Weapon unlocks... Hmm feels like P2W to me. Not that I'm surprised to see it. But it confirms there BS that this game will not be P2W.

I can assure you that in beta right now if you cert into something you loose something else (like mag capacity,speed, armor etc).
then there are over powered weapons that needs to be balanced, but that's another story.
Devs are doing a great job and are really listening.
the game is huge and time will pass before the dust sets and all the classes , vehicles and sidegrades are balanced.

[Hamma]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/media.php?view=2246

[Hamma]

Guys this does not confirm pay to win.. all this crap is obtainable via Auraxium. This is confirmation of nothing at all other than Alpha Squad.

[Ragnafrak]

Weapon unlocks... Hmm feels like P2W to me. Not that I'm surprised to see it. But it confirms there BS that this game will not be P2W.

/sigh

The unlocks aren't going to be for special founder-only equipment. Everything unlocked will be available for auraxium as well, I'm sure. And it's spread out over all 3 factions, so any one who just plays as 1 faction will only get the benefit of 4 unlocks.

We don't even know if the unlocks will be for equipment that is a sidegrade (replaces existing equipment) or an upgrade (equips in an as of yet unused slot). Wait and see, then complain.

Just because someone can pay and unlock something faster than it would take them to unlock it with auraxium doesn't mean it's p2w.


Personally, I'm all over this. It's exactly what I expected.

[VaderShake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D1cap6yETA

[Sunrock]

I can assure you that in beta right now if you cert into something you loose something else (like mag capacity,speed, armor etc).
then there are over powered weapons that needs to be balanced, but that's another story.
Devs are doing a great job and are really listening.
the game is huge and time will pass before the dust sets and all the classes , vehicles and sidegrades are balanced.

I have about 50 hours play in beta so far... I think I can make up my own mind about weapons in it. And I'm not talking about the certifications but the weapons you buy for aurixium in the beta now. If any of those become available with SC its pay2win in my mind.

[Goku]

Looks great to me. Especially since I was already considering getting Station Cash for the launch this is even better.

Sunrock this is the model that comes with F2P. SOE is giving you access to these weapons via Auraxium. This is going to be slower verse paying for them straight up. Your call as to whether or not you want to cough up the doe to get them sooner.

[Sunrock]

Just because someone can pay and unlock something faster than it would take them to unlock it with auraxium doesn't mean it's p2w.


I disagree with you. That is P2W. Everything that is not play 2 win is Pay 2 win.

[stordito]

You have to admit that most of the weapons you are talking about are the unbalanced ones like A2A, A2G... i see a lot of people running for the latest unbalanced weapon added in beta just because allows lots of kills.
most of the players sucks with a mossie but they certed a 12500 Aux rockets cert upgrate anyway. such certification is worth 2-3 days of playtime and right now makes sense only because you are rewarded with bazillion of kills and killstreaks.
just my opinion...

[Frotang]

Well start saving your money or dont play. Its a frickin free game they need revenue to come from somewhere people. I personally will only be ablr to play maybe 6 hours per week so ill be unlocking all my stuff with cash, deal with it

[snaffe]

So as Alpha Squad meant didley squad to me, this is basically the "Founder package" then.

And that seems to suggest as 2012 launch, which must mean open beta by October latest surely. No?

[Sunrock]

Well start saving your money or dont play. Its a frickin free game they need revenue to come from somewhere people. I personally will only be ablr to play maybe 6 hours per week so ill be unlocking all my stuff with cash, deal with it

I'm ok with this game being P2W even though I would prefer a sub fee only. But call it what it is. I just hate this BS with PS devs saying its not...

On a side note... if you only play 6 hours a week. Way do you even care to play at all?

[Frotang]

I'm ok with this game being P2W even though I would prefer a sub fee only. But call it what it is. I just hate this BS with PS devs saying its not...

On a side note... if you only play 6 hours a week. Way do you even care to play at all?

Because i like to play games....i dont have to play 8 hrs a day to have fun, and station cash unlocks will mean my low playtime won't limit me from experiencing anything.

Again its a free game, there will be many people who play less than i will.

[Sotonian]

Now to wait for the news that EU gets screwed over again :)

[Dalenberg]

The fine print says our station cash will be transfered. I hope this also extends to the title, unique camo and unlocks.

[Bags]

The P2W def used by most companies / people is that you can $$$ buy something you cannot get with in game currency.

Unless these weapons are clear upgrades and cannot be bought in game (fat chance), this isn't P2W.

Now as you get 12 unlocked weapons, and there's 3 empires I assume you get 4 weapons per empire.

Probably something like

>1 Sniper Rifle
>1 Assault Rifle
>1 LMG
>1 Pistol? Vehicle weapon? Carbine?

[Sapphire Razer]

This is not P2W. The unlockable weapon or not superman gun !

[RSphil]

looks cool. can we get it in EU though? that is the big question for me

[LexDecon]

Guys this does not confirm pay to win.. all this crap is obtainable via Auraxium. This is confirmation of nothing at all other than Alpha Squad.

:thumbsup:

The best part of "Alpha Squad" is the unique camo and decal pattern. That doesn't effect game play in the slightest when it comes to "Pay to Win". Nothing in the Alpha Package is "Unique" and unattainable to a normal player that puts some time and effort into it.

Its just like the Tech Test Guys having AA capabilities while later Beta testers had to purchase the AA capabilities.

Purchasing the Alpha Squad package doesn't give you a "Pay 2 Win" ability because frankly half the "AFKergers" That sit in the Warp gate for days on end racking up Auraxium probably have enough to unlock everything that Alpha Squad offers.

And Honestly I'm going to purchase it as it helps SOE and Planetside 2 out, and it hits on some of the things I really wanted to see in game, Camo and Decals.

[RSphil]

Now to wait for the news that EU gets screwed over again :)

lol as we always do :mad:

[ISVRaDa]

looks cool. can we get it in EU though? that is the big question for me

Same doubt here.

[Sunrock]

Because i like to play games....i dont have to play 8 hrs a day to have fun, and station cash unlocks will mean my low playtime won't limit me from experiencing anything.

Again its a free game, there will be many people who play less than i will.

Well if I only had 6 hours a week to my self I might have spent it on something else. But now I have about 40 hours of free time every weeek to my self as I'm devoiced and don't have any kids and I like to spend at least 25-30 of those on games. If I had kids I probably would not play games at all.

But just because you can only spend 6 hours in game a week does not mean you cant progress as fast as some one that spend 100 hours a week in game if you look at how mush you accomplish per hour in game. Only thing you can't do is compete with him on who unlocks stuff first. And being server first is getting old fast...

[Dalenberg]

lol as we always do :mad:

Read the fine print.

[Boone]

I'm ok with this game being P2W even though I would prefer a sub fee only. But call it what it is. I just hate this BS with PS devs saying its not...

On a side note... if you only play 6 hours a week. Way do you even care to play at all?

It isn't. Just convenience.

[Sunrock]

It isn't. Just convenience.

Well you can call it what you like. But the reason players use cheat codes in single players games for an example are also just for convenience. Does not change the fact that they are cheating. As little as it change calling P2W just for convenience either.

[Frotang]

Well if I only had 6 hours a week to my self I might have spent it on something else.

Lol well i have more than 6 hrs of free time each week man I just only choose to game for 6 of those, more important things take up the other time, its called priorities. But I guarantee there will be people who only log in for an hour or two 1 day each week, and if they see something in game that they really want to try they can pay money and use it, this is why I love the business model soe is using.

[Crysander]

Weapon unlocks... Hmm feels like P2W to me. Not that I'm surprised to see it. But it confirms there BS that this game will not be P2W.

That's awfully pesimistic - as you can clearly see it lists 12 weapon unlocks, so logically you get one new weapon per class (not including MAXs). It's effectively a preorder option, and you want your preorder packs to be appealing and rack up a good amount of interest. Seems pretty fair to me, imagining this was a miscelaneous standard title:

To start, as a preorder bonus pack its cheap at $40
So for $40 your getting:
1) Skins - practically every game these days comes with this, and it's always welcome
2) Exclusive Title - again, MMOs have these often, and its always welcome
3) An XP Booster - again, often used in FPS games like COD
4) Twelve Pre-unlocked weapons (most likely the first unlock per class)
5) Your $40 is given straight back to you as SC to spend in the shop, so if your planning on buying anything in this game or just want to show your support for SOE then it'd be stupid not to get this.

The unlocks won't be ridiculous, that would just be silly, they don't want to break their game on release day and will almost certainly be auraxim purchase ones to boot. The main benefit that I see is that people in the Beta (who will almost certainly want to support the game ~fingers crossed~) will be able to splash some cash and save time unlocking stuff at the beginning.

Bottom line, SOE is a company who wants to make money hence the more attractive the package, the more orders they get and nothing in this package seems obnoxiously P2W. Support 2 Win? Definately.

TL;DR: Doesn't seem to shabby to me! Quit your belly aching.

edit: Page 3 in the time it took to type this? Fail.

[Diehard]

Wheres the link so I can throw my money on the screen?

[Brollywood]

Same doubt here.

Don't worry :)

[ISVRaDa]

Don't worry :)

Yay!! \o/

Thanks for your prompt response Brollywood :)

[Bittermen]

Weapon unlocks... Hmm feels like P2W to me. Not that I'm surprised to see it. But it confirms there BS that this game will not be P2W.

Pay to Win implies that the items you can buy are superior to those given out for free and that the only way to obtain these items are through monetary means.


This is not pay to win. Especially since you can buy weapons without paying for them(this will take a of grinding).


Your paying for time.

[Diehard]

Pay to Win implies that the items you can buy are superior to those given out for free and that the only way to obtain these items are through monetary means.


This is not pay to win. Especially since you can buy weapons without paying for them(this will take a of grinding).


Your paying for time.

agreed

[Bittermen]

Sunrock have you ever played a pay to win game before? Those silly "free2play" asian shooters? Only way to unlock new weapons was to pay for them... Thats pay to win.

This isn't some broad definition it clearly defines a set of games.

[Frotang]

Yes time is money friends, choose one or the other.

[Diehard]

Sunrock have you ever played a pay to win game before? Those silly "free2play" asian shooters? Only way to unlock new weapons was to pay for them... Thats pay to win.

This isn't some broad definition it clearly defines a set of games.

Gunbound comes to mind...hmmm

[RSphil]

Pay to Win implies that the items you can buy are superior to those given out for free and that the only way to obtain these items are through monetary means.


This is not pay to win. Especially since you can buy weapons without paying for them(this will take a of grinding).


Your paying for time.

spot on. im sick of seeing people tag this as pay to win when they dont understand how most pay to win games are. most things in this game are side grades not full blown upgrades.
pay to win in nearly all f2p games is i pay for a superior weapon which you can only get via cash. planetside 2 this is not true. you pay to save time and not get exclusive weapons ect for cash.
as they say if you put the you will have the same stuff as someone who splashed the cash.

[Top Sgt]

I disagree with you. That is P2W. Everything that is not play 2 win is Pay 2 win.

then you should really just not play planetside at all and go back to hackfield 3 honestly.

oh wait.. you can buy all their held back DLC and weapons ohh and the "booster packs"

[VaderShake]

It's funny how were debating "play to win" in a game that can never be won.

This is a time saver pure and simple to get weapons you may or may not like for a kit you may or may not choose to play that everyone else can get eventually if they happen to choose them.

I have unlocked a few accessories in the beta already I don't like personally that others may prefer.

Plus you cannot buy skill. Heck in many FPS I would master I would end up playing with simple weapons with iron sights to make it more challenging.

[Crator]

I suppose technically the term Pay-to-Win is correct in regards to Planetside 2. But there's a compromise to this model which, imo, shouldn't be that big of a deal really. It's a AAA F2P title FFS. You can't expect them not to do this. They let people play for free! If you put money into the game you should definitely get perks like being able to have access to certain things before another person who doesn't pay. SOE is supposed to be going a step further and making different stats for the purchasable side-grade weapons. I'm not too keen on how the whole side-grade thing is going though cause as far as I can tell currently it's a bit more then a side-grade when you can purchase a weapon that gives a lock-on ability vs. the stock one. I didn't really look to see what stat difference they have, if they have any at all, but that could be that way because they simply have not gone through a balance of such thing.

A true pay-to-win model wouldn't allow non-paying players to obtain items without paying.

EDIT: How do you define "pay to win" in a MMORPG? (http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2012/08/how-do-you-define-pay-to-win-in-mmorpg.html)

[Galron]

I was about to drop some cash on this right now, the only thing holding me back was I didn't want to get this version if there were different tiered versions of this.

That and the link that they advertise gives a 404, http://www.planetside2.com/alpha-squad

I suppose it isn't formally announced yet? Anyone know when this will be?

[bjorntju1]

Cool! :) Will purchase when available! With that 4000 SC added I have a total of 14000SC. I think that should last me awhile :p

[CrankyTRex]

It's still Pay 2 Win if you're talking about unlocking items that give you the ability to compete that you cannot have without them, because then the people that pay to unlock those options will win against people who do not. Right now we do have unlockables that fall into that category, most specifically pretty much all AA weapons, as well as AtG weapons on the aircraft.

[VaderShake]

How about we simplify this discussion, you can either try the game for free or buy it for $39.99.

Would you not lay down $39.99 for a game you wanted to play?

[Ragnafrak]

Everyone except 1 guy is in agreement about the definition of p2w.

Btw- A2G and A2A missiles seem to have gotten a huge nerf this morning.

I've already got 7500 SC, plus another 7500 SC coming from the FB app soon, I hope. .. this'll make.. 19000 SC? sheesh

[Tatwi]

But I already have 3,000 SC. What am I going to do with 7,000 SC? That's a lot of Broker Tokens in EQ2 lol...

Incidentally, I agree that it is pay2win in terms of the "5 minute player being on the same footing as the 5 year player" - oh yeah, sure, if that 5 minute player drops $100 on the game he will be...

[Galron]

It's still Pay 2 Win if you're talking about unlocking items that give you the ability to compete that you cannot have without them, because then the people that pay to unlock those options will win against people who do not. Right now we do have unlockables that fall into that category, most specifically pretty much all AA weapons, as well as AtG weapons on the aircraft.

Which you can all unlock for free if you are so inclined != pay to win.

[EVILPIG]

2 things:

1. For those worried about the "over powered" weapons, Beta is far from over and things will be balanced.

2. I'm wondering about the Booster Implant that is offered. It lasts 6 months. Will we have to have it slotted the whole time, or will we be able to swap it out and not lose it?

[Frotang]

Im assuming it can be swapped, I sometimes will buy both the Dex III implant and Transport vehicle one and swap them out when necessary. Now as soon as you activate it the timer will count down even when not in use.

[Ragnafrak]

Incidentally, I agree that it is pay2win in terms of the "5 minute player being on the same footing as the 5 year player" - oh yeah, sure, if that 5 minute player drops $100 on the game he will be...

Don't take that out of context. The idea there is that if a 5-minute player gets the drop on a 5-year player, he's still got just as good a chance of knocking him out as would anyone else. TTK on infantry isn't very high.

And remember, buying new gear has trade offs, it always does. There haven't really been any examples of this for inf weapons yet, but to use MAX's as an example, people complain about scattermax's because they can unload all of their ammo into a guy superfast at close range, but anything outside 50 meters and they've got trouble.

There are currently certable abilities in the game that improve survivability by allowing you to have slightly stronger armor/shields/health regen, but you can only ever use one at a time, an the difference is not very noticeable.

[Masterr]

sunrock is stupid, there's no changing his mind, leave him be. ken would be sad.

[zzzornbringer]

40 bucks is kinda massive.

[Tatwi]

Don't take that out of context. The idea there is that if a 5-minute player gets the drop on a 5-year player, he's still got just as good a chance of knocking him out as would anyone else. TTK on infantry isn't very high.

And remember, buying new gear has trade offs, it always does. There haven't really been any examples of this for inf weapons yet, but to use MAX's as an example, people complain about scattermax's because they can unload all of their ammo into a guy superfast at close range, but anything outside 50 meters and they've got trouble.

There are currently certable abilities in the game that improve survivability by allowing you to have slightly stronger armor/shields/health regen, but you can only ever use one at a time, an the difference is not very noticeable.

There's a song for what you are doing,
One Tin Soldier - The Legend of Billy Jack - YouTube

[SaeS]

As long as you can get the same weapons by just playing the game (grinding), it's not P2W, just paying for time and I'm totally fine with that.

[Ragnafrak]

There's a song for what you are doing,
tl;dl

I wonder if there were enough suggestions for a physical product component to the founder's pack that this won't be the only version of it.

http://www.planetside2.com/alpha-squad just changed from 404 to "Under Maintenance".

[CrankyTRex]

Which you can all unlock for free if you are so inclined != pay to win.

Simply making things unlockable over time does not erase the pay 2 win. If paying gives you a significant competitive advantage in the game, then it's still pay 2 win.

This problem is easily solved by making sure that things that can give you a competitive advantage, such as base-level air to air missiles or AA on vehicles are either already unlocked or not eligible for paid increase in unlocking.

Either that or you'd have to restrict people from unlocking more things than they could by playing for the same amount of time, and I seriously doubt that anyone wants that.

[Tatwi]

As long as you can get the same weapons by just playing the game (grinding), it's not P2W, just paying for time and I'm totally fine with that.

If you ignore what Higby said over and over again about the 5 minute player and the 5 year player, sure. But by all means folks, morph the context of that sentiment to whatever fits your ideals; "justify it in the end"... It's not like I was the one who made this statement dozens of times in public. Nope, that was the game's Creative Director, Matt Higby. Ah well, things change, but it's pretty sad if you can't simply admit that it's pay2win in this context...

[Setari]

Well, I just bought it. For all this debating, I'm perfectly happy throwing money at SOE if it means more support for PS2.

[Crator]

Either that or you'd have to restrict people from unlocking more things than they could by playing for the same amount of time, and I seriously doubt that anyone wants that.

I thought that was actually going to happen via the Battle Ranks. So you'd have to get a certain battle rank until specific side-grades become unlocked. Then once unlocked you would then have to purchase the side-grade via the shop using Auraxium or Station Cash.

[Galron]

Well, I just bought it. For all this debating, I'm perfectly happy throwing money at SOE if it means more support for PS2.


Same here, the link works now.

http://www.planetside2.com/alpha-squad

[VelRa]

I just bought it, but alas no receipt or charge on my credit card. Must still be working out the kinks!

[Rat]

I think thats pretty good value...I will be buying

[Hamma]

Officially announced and news posted. ;)

[EVILoHOMER]

"all items will be cosmetic"

Already putting weapons up for sale.

Fail.

[ISVRaDa]

Q. What if I am European player? Does the Station Cash convert to ProSiebenSat.1.Games Seven Cash?
A. Yes! ProSiebenSat.1.Games is our partner in Europe and responsible for publishing the game in these countries. Just like in the US, European purchasers of this package will receive immediate Beta access and 4000 Station Cash. Upon the launch of PlanetSide 2 (also the expected migration date to the ProSiebenSat.1.Games service) the wallet balance of this Station Cash along with the virtual items in this package will transfer when the player establishes a ProSiebenSat.1.Games account. At that time, the Station Cash balance will be converted into Seven Cash currency.

Good news for europeans players.

[Goku]

"all items will be cosmetic"

Already putting weapons up for sale.

Fail.

Its been known for awhile you can purchase weapons with station cash.

[Frotang]

I believe when they said all items will be cosmetic they were referring to cash only items that cannot be unlocked by other means.

[Higby]

If you ignore what Higby said over and over again about the 5 minute player and the 5 year player, sure. But by all means folks, morph the context of that sentiment to whatever fits your ideals; "justify it in the end"... It's not like I was the one who made this statement dozens of times in public. Nope, that was the game's Creative Director, Matt Higby. Ah well, things change, but it's pretty sad if you can't simply admit that it's pay2win in this context...

Your fundamental flawed assumption here is that new weapons are "better". They're not. They're just different.

You're not buying any intrinsic advantage at all. You're just getting access to other playstyles (which you could also get through gameplay!). If we do our balancing correct (and we're not anywhere close to having it balanced yet i'll be the first to admit that) you'll be getting weapons that are "better" only due to situational and personal preference, not due to intrinsic power. Hence, you're not buying power or paying to win.

[ThGlump]

I want to buy it i really want. But i cant till EU is properly sorted out. I dont want to buy it to account that could be already flagged as EU one, and unable to play with it after transfer (no pro7 account for me).
So i just sit quietly and envy you all that can buy it.

[ISVRaDa]

I want to buy it i really want. But i cant till EU is properly sorted out. I dont want to buy it to account that could be already flagged as EU one, and unable to play with it after transfer (no pro7 account for me).
So i just sit quietly and envy you all that can buy it.

Why you think that? :s

[Tatwi]

Your fundamental flawed assumption here is that new weapons are "better". They're not. They're just different.

You're not buying any intrinsic advantage at all. You're just getting access to other playstyles (which you could also get through gameplay!). If we do our balancing correct (and we're not anywhere close to having it balanced yet i'll be the first to admit that) you'll be getting weapons that are "better" only due to situational and personal preference, not due to intrinsic power. Hence, you're not buying power or paying to win.

Riiiiight, because a lock on rocket launcher that actually hits the target isn't more powerful than a dumb-fire one that is supremely easy for a tank to dodge. Or how about an aircraft that doesn't have rocket pods or a better cannon compared to one that does?

Even the 100 cert points for the flares on a fighter mean the difference between being able to fly for more than 10 seconds or being summarily blow out of the sky by everyone with A2A rockets. No way a 5 minute player can compete in the air in this regard. None. It's just a quick lesson in futility.

In the cases to which I am referring, it's a matter of the "haves" and the "have nots", rather than just being different. You can't call these balance issues, because unless you give the 5 minute player these things too, it's just not balanced.

[bjorntju1]

Good to know I wasn't a victim of my own stupidity thanks for posting that.:thumbsup:

Also purchased it, but for me it did show up on my credit-card receipt.

[PhoenixDog]

I disagree with you. That is P2W. Everything that is not play 2 win is Pay 2 win.
Every unlockable weapon in the game is a sidegrade. It might do more damage but shoot slower or have a smaller clip. This one has a huge clip but does less damage. Nothing is going to be better than anything else. And if it is, anyone and everyone can buy it for free through Auraxium. Pay to Win isn't just because you can buy it sooner than someone. Pay to Win is described as an item only obtainable through real money. Nothing but XP and Resource Boosts will be Station Cash only. Do some research before opening your mouth.

You have to admit that most of the weapons you are talking about are the unbalanced ones like A2A, A2G... i see a lot of people running for the latest unbalanced weapon added in beta just because allows lots of kills.
most of the players sucks with a mossie but they certed a 12500 Aux rockets cert upgrate anyway. such certification is worth 2-3 days of playtime and right now makes sense only because you are rewarded with bazillion of kills and killstreaks.
just my opinion...
There are plenty of things in the beta that are imbalanced or broken. Balancing comes after making sure the game works on a consistent basis...Which right now it doesn't. Let's make the game function properly before worrying about balance.

Riiiiight, because a lock on rocket launcher that actually hits the target isn't more powerful than a dumb-fire one that is supremely easy for a tank to dodge. Or how about an aircraft that doesn't have rocket pods or a better cannon compared to one that does?

Planetside 1. Striker vs. Decimator. Argument null.

As for things being better than standard through certs....I heard that the Heavy Assault weapons in Planetside 1 were better than the Suppressor you spawned with after you died. You had to cert into them to use them though, and if you didn't...Other people could have a better gun than you. They should have made it so everyone spawns with the heavy assault weapons!

Right? That's your argument after all...

[Coreldan]

Every unlockable weapon in the game is a sidegrade. It might do more damage but shoot slower or have a smaller clip. This one has a huge clip but does less damage. Nothing is going to be better than anything else. And if it is, anyone and everyone can buy it for free through Auraxium. Pay to Win isn't just because you can buy it sooner than someone. Pay to Win is described as an item only obtainable through real money. Nothing but XP and Resource Boosts will be Station Cash only. Do some research before opening your mouth.


There are plenty of things in the beta that are imbalanced or broken. Balancing comes after making sure the game works on a consistent basis...Which right now it doesn't. Let's make the game function properly before worrying about balance.



Planetside 1. Striker vs. Decimator. Argument null.

As for things being better than standard through certs....I heard that the Heavy Assault weapons in Planetside 1 were better than the Suppressor you spawned with after you died. You had to cert into them to use them though, and if you didn't...Other people could have a better gun than you. They should have made it so everyone spawns with the heavy assault weapons!

Right? That's your argument after all...

While I dont think there is any pay2win present as long as you can unlock the same stuff without paying, there is no way in hell the vehicle weapons can be seen as sidegrades :P

That might be the case if you had the basic versions of the weapons available at start, but in comparison to the basilisk or even empty slot (if talking about fighters), everything on the marketplace is a huge upgrade.

That said, it's not a problem as long as you can get it without paying for it like you can with Auraxium. Sunrocks problem is that he considers that to be pay2win as well, cos theres gonna be that day or two before the free players are able to grind enough auraxium to get said weapons, in comparison to paying players getting them on launch day.

[Tatwi]

*snip a bunch of irrelevant things*

I am talking bout the actual lock on rocket launcher in Planetside 2, from hundreds of hours of actual PS2 game play experience. In my experience it is light years better than the default weapon, simply because the rockets are so slow that even at very close range, a tank can move 1 foot after you pulled the trigger and you can miss. With the lock on, you can't miss at close range.

So many times I have missed with the dumb-fire from less than 10 feet, simply because the guy in the tank wanted to start driving, not because he knew I was there. Again, with the lock on, that miss becomes impossible.

Add to this the clear advantage the lock on has at long range, in that tanks can't simply move 1 foot away and avoid the hit, you can't call it anything but an upgrade.

You know, I don't really care much about all of this, but I would like people to be honest about what is happening. It's just not right to say one thing and do another - say it and do it and be proud of it.

[CrankyTRex]

Your fundamental flawed assumption here is that new weapons are "better". They're not. They're just different.

You're not buying any intrinsic advantage at all. You're just getting access to other playstyles (which you could also get through gameplay!). If we do our balancing correct (and we're not anywhere close to having it balanced yet i'll be the first to admit that) you'll be getting weapons that are "better" only due to situational and personal preference, not due to intrinsic power. Hence, you're not buying power or paying to win.

That depends entirely on what kind of unlocks we're talking about. When we're talking about different weapons that are essentially the same (say an assault rifle) but with varied statistics, then yeah that's just a balancing issue and I don't think it qualifies as P2W.

The concern is that there are things that are intrinsically more valuable so long as you don't have the choice to use them. Air to Air missiles are a good example of this. They are a stark advantage over any pilot that does not have them.

Now, just being advantageous does not necessarily make them intrinsically better. For example, if every pilot had access to an AtA missile and an AtG missile, and they had to choose which one they wanted, then we're talking about a play-style choice. The AtA missiles are still a significant advantage in the air, but the player decided to give that up for something else.

But unfortunately that is not the choice in front of the player right now. The player's choice is instead wait to earn the AtA missile, and be at a significant disadvantage in the air, or pay to gain that advantage immediately, and that's where it becomes Pay 2 Win instead of a mere play-style choice.

[PhoenixDog]

*Snip*

*Snip*

I agree with both of you in what you're saying. Some of the default things are pretty crap compared to the upgraded materials (ie. ESF's). However, hopefully we see things get balanced somewhat. I'd love to see ESF's get by default the machine gun it has now as well as a basic rocket system. The the upgrades are full hellfire rockets, or A2A, or whatever. Perhaps when talking about the Rockets for HA, the lock on upgrade will have a drop off in damage where as the dumbfire does much more? Balance changes are still to come. Some are not guaranteed...But hopefully there is a happy medium between both the defaults and the upgrades. The upgrades should be better in a way...But better in terms of making life easier..Not necessarily doing everything better.

[Higby]

I am talking bout the actual lock on rocket launcher in Planetside 2, from hundreds of hours of actual PS2 game play experience. In my experience it is light years better than the default weapon, simply because the rockets are so slow that even at very close range, a tank can move 1 foot after you pulled the trigger and you can miss. With the lock on, you can't miss at close range.

So many times I have missed with the dumb-fire from less than 10 feet, simply because the guy in the tank wanted to start driving, not because he knew I was there. Again, with the lock on, that miss becomes impossible.

Add to this the clear advantage the lock on has at long range, in that tanks can't simply move 1 foot away and avoid the hit, you can't call it anything but an upgrade.

I said in no uncertain terms that we're not done balancing yet. Dumbfire rockets aren't presently good enough to make up for their lack of lock-on, but we're building in more trade offs to bring all of these things in line. Dumbfire rockets should be faster on the current build, and we'll continue to tweak them to be more viable.

No, players won't have access to everything by default.

Yes, if you have an empty slot on a vehicle or infantry loadout you will be less effective until you fill that slot.

Once you have all your slots loaded out though, our goal is to make it a matter of side-grades with real trade offs rather than net power gain. Exceptions are things like grenades, med kits, things that give straight up power advantages and are only available via resources. Vehicles as well are paid for with resources, that's part of their balancing - they're not free to mobilize.

[Tatwi]

I said in no uncertain terms that we're not done balancing yet. Dumbfire rockets aren't presently good enough to make up for their lack of lock-on, but we're building in more trade offs to bring all of these things in line. Dumbfire rockets should be faster on the current build, and we'll continue to tweak them to be more viable.

No, players won't have access to everything by default.

Yes, if you have an empty slot on a vehicle or infantry loadout you will be less effective until you fill that slot.

Once you have all your slots loaded out though, our goal is to make it a matter of side-grades with real trade offs rather than net power gain. Exceptions are things like grenades, med kits, things that give straight up power advantages and are only available via resources. Vehicles as well are paid for with resources, that's part of their balancing - they're not free to mobilize.

You're a good person, Higby. Thanks for your time. :groovy:

[sameer]

Not interested at all. I will take a second look in december.

[JawsOfLife]

In case it hasn't been mentioned yet,

Smed just Tweeted this:
"Why do we have a December 31st 2012 date up there? Is that the launch date? - No. It's not. It's launching when beta is over. We don't know when that will be. But we have to put a date up there for the lawyers to be happy. We've always said we were launching this year. If we make the game we're proud to release and beta is great then yes? When will that be exactly? When the game kicks ass."

[Taru]

$40 for $40 worth of station cash plus some other Planetside 2 goodies? I'm sold. Let the "Shut up and take my money!" begin. :thumbsup:

[Baneblade]

I was about to drop some cash on this right now, the only thing holding me back was I didn't want to get this version if there were different tiered versions of this.

There's no reason for them to wait to add the other tiers, so it is reasonable to assume there is only one.

Now, that is not to say there will not be a collector's edition when release hits that gives its own special bonuses separate from alpha squad.

[RobUK]

I really hope that this Alpha Squad offer stays open for a few weeks yet, I so want this, but I can't really justify paying for it yet :( (well I daren't actually face the increasing wrath of the Wife if I'm honest!)

It's two weeks since payday, and two weeks to next payday, so now's a bad time. I've just bought a new Motherboard and RAM and am about to splash out on an i5 2500K CPU just so that I can play Planetside 2 with better framerates and (hopefully) a lot less CTD's with more RAM and a 64bit O.S.

If I dip into our savings I'll be having tongue pie for dinner for the next month :eek:

I hope it's still available in 2 weeks time or I will :cry:

[Bags]

Riiiiight, because a lock on rocket launcher that actually hits the target isn't more powerful than a dumb-fire one that is supremely easy for a tank to dodge. Or how about an aircraft that doesn't have rocket pods or a better cannon compared to one that does?

Here are the weapons

Assault Rifle - Fast rate or fire allows it to output a large of amount of damage in a short period of time, making it very effective at short to medium ranges.
NCGR-22
TRCycler TRV
VSH-V45
Carbine - Balanced weight and controllable recoil allows the operator to maintain accuracy over automatic fire.
NCAC-X11
TRT5
VSPulsar C
LMG - Features three fire modes, allowing it to easily adapt to most situations on the battlefield.
NCEM6 LMG
TRTMG-50 B
VSSVA-88
Sniper - Highly accurate and damaging at long range.
NCLA80
TRSR-7
VSV10

You don't get an RPG...

[blacksheepwall]

So I guess beta invites are over. Everyone else is gonna have to pay to get in the beta. Yay...

[Crator]

^^^ or beg :P PS2 stream giving out keys right now (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=47765)

[Baneblade]

So I guess beta invites are over. Everyone else is gonna have to pay to get in the beta. Yay...

Or Bane forbid you sign up for it.

[MaxDamage]

My only wish is that having paid for this alpha squad thing, I didn't have to see the adverts on loading screens and main page all over again.

Would you like to pre-order Core Combat?

[Setari]

15 minutes after I bought the AS package, I got an IGN beta key. I don't regret the purchase at all.

[EVILoHOMER]

I don't get the point of buying this if you're already in beta, you're not really getting anything.

[Crator]

Don't feed the trolls

[DayOne]

I don't get the point of buying this if you're already in beta, you're not really getting anything.

Station cash + decals/camos + guns unlocks + 6 month 10% xp boost.


Yeah, not much at all...

[Raka Maru]

Bought this.

Good deal, got station cash as if I purchased the same amount from SOE. I don't have to spend auraxium for those new weapons now, got cool exclusive skins, and most important to me, get labeled as a Founder with a decal, marking the importance of being part of this epic game from the start. All win to me.

This exclusive founder patch will never be sold again after alpha team. Gladly would have bought this if it was just the exclusive decal and station cash.

[Crator]

Is there going to be a higher priced package offered? I remember Smed asking about what we wanted in the founders package and said to only ask for virtual items in-game for now. Hinting that there would be physical items such as an art book. T-Ray suggested the art book in the thread. Just curious cause I want to buy the higher priced package if there going to have one.

[Raka Maru]

Is there going to be a higher priced package offered? I remember Smed asking about what we wanted in the founders package and said to only ask for virtual items in-game for now. Hinting that there would be physical items such as an art book. T-Ray suggested the art book in the thread. Just curious cause I want to buy the higher priced package if there going to have one.

I would buy an RC version of the Prowler. Would be a bonus if they let me deck out my Prowler then sell a remote control version with my customizations.

[james]

Have they published system requirements to the public yet? I guess I mean made it official? I saw where people are buying this package only to find they can nowhere near run the game. That is troubling.

Not yet, game is still in early beta, hell it issues on highend systems.


I was thinking about getting it but since its only 4 guns per faction, i'm less interested

[Baneblade]

I don't get the point of buying this if you're already in beta, you're not really getting anything.

That's all relative isn't it. Because the Beta access part was the 'not really getting anything' for me.

[sylphaen]

What should you do if you have a USA/CAN station account (from having lived in NA) but a French CC (from being in Europe now) ? The payment form seems to base itself on previous payments location rather than country selection on the form itself.
ProblemL: there is no such thing as province/state (except maybe German landers) in Europe and the field is required.
:doh:

So... I also heard paying in USD is a good deal vs. EUR, should I test their payment system and see if it blows up ?
:D

[Bags]

Yeah believe me I know. I am testing on an older machine and SOE has made great leaps to making it playable but what SOE is doing here is effectively selling access to Beta. Think about it. You cannot access any of these items for months but SOE is selling this package now. I am sure they will leave it available until and probably after launch so why buy it now (We'll see how limited time this is being offered but I am betting now much)? Early beta access. Since they haven't given much official system requirements out, people are buying to get into beta and finding they are nowhere close to being able to play the game. Not good for PR! And I know there are other methods for beta access and this is one of them. There just isnt much point buying this right now for any other purpose.

They sold BETA weeks ago when you could buy PS1 on Gamefly, subscribe, wait for a key for being an "active veteran" and cancel the sub. All for $10.

[Hamma]

Hey at least this is an actual beta tests. Most of those "Other" games just sell you an incomplete game 2 weeks before they release it still containing most of the bugs.

[PoisonTaco]

You're spending $40 for $40 worth of Station Cash. That right there is getting your money's worth. Everything else is a straight up bonus.

[Mastachief]

It's a bargain.

Pay $39.99
Get $40 of station cash
Get free exclusive skins and sticker
Get 12 unlocks that you dont have to spend your auraxium on or newly acquired station cash

Support this (hopefully) epic game.

Win!

[kidwithstick]

Im pretty sure that the main perc of this deal is not the instant beta.

hurrdurr.

[Greenthy]

Sad that I can't give the beta acces that comes with it to my brother though.

Will buy it one of the next days, since it seems worth it.

[Canadian Vanu]

Guys this does not confirm pay to win.. all this crap is obtainable via Auraxium. This is confirmation of nothing at all other than Alpha Squad.

Have you played tribes ascend?

The most powerful weapons are obtainable through both forms of currency.

Great, right? No. XP takes so damn long to get . I did the math once, for 100000 xp (the old thumper price) , which at the time was op ( And is still is in my opinion) it took 2 months of play time for me to unlock.

I never unlocked it because for each new weapon added, it was op for about 2 weeks until it got nerfed.

And at the rate auraxium is being gained, I have a bad feeling that might happen.

[derito]

On its own it's probably a pretty good deal but once you take the frequent station cash discounts into account I don't know.

[Mastachief]

Have you played tribes ascend?

The most powerful weapons are obtainable through both forms of currency.

Great, right? No. XP takes so damn long to get . I did the math once, for 100000 xp (the old thumper price) , which at the time was op ( And is still is in my opinion) it took 2 months of play time for me to unlock.

I never unlocked it because for each new weapon added, it was op for about 2 weeks until it got nerfed.

And at the rate auraxium is being gained, I have a bad feeling that might happen.

So it taking long time to unlock a weapon for free in a free to play game is bad?

Right now it seems that to unlock the JH varient you needed 25k auraxium so if i can easily earn 4-6k a session then it will perhaps take me a week to unlock that weapon or... i can contribute an amount of cash and have it now. Even if it took 2months i wouldnt mind, others may do but its not a game ending event as the weapons aren't more powerful.

I hate with a passion the players that will go out of their way to not contribute financially to this game.

It should be inconvenient to play for free. SOE has already said that they are sidegrading not upgrading when it comes to power and this is already seen on beta.

[Zulthus]

I wish they'd slap a $59.99 price tag on the box and rid the game of a cash shop. SOE still gets their revenue. Most 'games' don't even feel like games anymore, since you can just get everything without playing on day 1 if you have the dough. It's like a Zynga game.

I honestly just wish they'd use the traditional model where you have to actually play to advance.

As someone already said this game is shaping up to the Tribes Ascend model, where you get extremely bored of grinding for who knows how long just to get that one awesome gun you really want.

[Crator]

^^^ If it's fun for you to play the game due to advancements and no other reason then you should just play the game for free and earn you new cert/equipt the hard way. Some people don't find that part fun at all and just want to play the game (which should be the fun part).

[Jonny]

Just a point I'd like to make to the devs about the alpha squad pack.

Don't rush what you're selling. To me it seems nobody thought about that decal - this is supposed to be a believable futuristic world, and you guys have been developing the lore behind it and adding a feel to the bases like this world has been inhabited with prefab space base units, the war has begun etc.

So why have a decal that has the Planetside 2 logo on it. "What is planetside 2?" I hear one soldier asking the other who has the decal on their gun/tank/whatever.

I know you want to make money from this game, and you deserve to do really well considering how amazing this game is shaping up to be and how you constantly LISTEN to the community to improve the game. Just when real money is involved you can't really go back with what you're offering so a more look before you leap approach would be gravy.

One more point on this subject - make sure those camo decals look great before you start charging for them!

[Sledgecrushr]

I just started a business and right now Im working two jobs so I dont really have a lot of time. The alpha squad package looks just right to me.

[Crator]

Don't rush what you're selling. To me it seems nobody thought about that decal - this is supposed to be a believable futuristic world, and you guys have been developing the lore behind it and adding a feel to the bases like this world has been inhabited with prefab space base units, the war has begun etc.

So why have a decal that has the Planetside 2 logo on it. "What is planetside 2?" I hear one soldier asking the other who has the decal on their gun/tank/whatever.

Oh I think they thought about the decal. You know what they were thinking? This --> "This PS2 decal will look great for live-streams. People will be able to know this is Planetside 2 when watching without a doubt."

[T-Ray]

Oh I think they thought about the decal. You know what they were thinking? This --> "This PS2 decal will look great for live-streams. People will be able to know this is Planetside 2 when watching without a doubt."

REDACTED

[Tatwi]

REDACTED

TRay, what's up with the "camo" suits with this thing? They are spastic and ugly, like a toddler with crayons, only without the, "awe isn't t sewet". Any chance these we could get these swapped out (optionally) for something like a slick, professional looking military uniform-like color scheme? Something without battle damage on it perhaps? I would never be caught wearing that red/white "camo"...

[Geist]

TRay, what's up with the "camo" suits with this thing? They are spastic and ugly, like a toddler with crayons, only without the, "awe isn't t sewet". Any chance these we could get these swapped out (optionally) for something like a slick, professional looking military uniform-like color scheme? Something without battle damage on it perhaps? I would never be caught wearing that red/white "camo"...

Considering default colors are bright Red/Yellow/Teal and a slightly darker black/blue/purple, I don't find the Alpha Squad camos out of place at all. Besides, they'll have more camos, these are just the "special" ones.

[T-Ray]

TRay, what's up with the "camo" suits with this thing? They are spastic and ugly, like a toddler with crayons, only without the, "awe isn't t sewet". Any chance these we could get these swapped out (optionally) for something like a slick, professional looking military uniform-like color scheme? Something without battle damage on it perhaps? I would never be caught wearing that red/white "camo"...

ok, I'm going to start this conversation off like this. Respect the work that was done if you truly want a respectful response. I may be a dev and I may work for Sony but that doesn't mean that I wont speak my mind when someone insults the hard work that my team put in on this project. It's ok not to like everything in the game. I have no illusions that everyone will love everything we do but if you really want a dialogue with me then you better come correct with the question.

anyway. Each non-neutral tint will have faction specific colors in them so that no one can buy a tint that makes them look like the other factions. I tweeted out the color palettes some time ago. We will be using the colors combinations from each one of those swatches to tint non-neutral camo patterns. So if you have a digital camo it will be a tones in the range of grey, warm grey, red, and charcoal for the TR.

[Higby]

OOOOOooooOOOOO.......

http://i.imgur.com/xblF4.gif

[J Baley]

OOOOOooooOOOOO.......

http://i.imgur.com/xblF4.gif

LOL Mr. Higby.
I'm happy about the camo, I like them. Tram is an awesome artist. The team is great. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I will be wearing mine with pride.

[MaxDamage]

LOL Mr. Higby.
I'm happy about the camo, I like them. Tram is an awesome artist. The team is great. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I will be wearing mine with pride.
Don't you mean *at* Pride?

Ho ho.

But srs. I think it looks great.

Edit: Is it good that members of the team read and post here?
I'm not saying I think otherwise, this kind of works, but it's nice to have a 'safe space' to slag off the game and "SOE" without wanting to cause actual offence to individuals involved; or risk being put on someone's naughty list.

Sometimes a brother/sister just needs to let off steam.

[Canadian Vanu]

I would certainly buy this, but i just bought the crysis pack from steam.

So now for me to feel truly okay with buying the pack, I need to finish Crysis, Crysis Warhead and Crysis 2.:(

[J Baley]

Don't you mean *at* Pride?

Ho ho.


Oh, that was joke. Funny.

[Masterr]

this tatwi guy is a douche

[T-Ray]

The artwork in the game I don't have a problem with. The metagame however I have a huge problem with and I am blue in the face about it.

And it's ok to not like some things we do, so ask (in general, not you perse') straight up and down questions and we will give guys the honest truth as we see it. I love chatting with you guys, I do it all day long on twitter but give me and the rest of the team the common respect as a human being when asking a question or posting an idea. I don't think that is too much to ask for.

We are here for the community as the community is here for us. I love this team, community, and this game just like you guys do.

respect

[Goku]

OOOOOooooOOOOO.......

http://i.imgur.com/xblF4.gif

I love that.

[T-Ray]

this tatwi guy is a douche

lets keep it civil

[Crator]

Hey, since you guys are here. I asked this a few pages back. Are you going to offer a higher priced package? One that will include physical items like that art book you were talking about T-Ray? I wants that ;) Perhaps a dog tag in it too?

[T-Ray]

Hey, since you guys are here. I asked this a few pages back. Are you going to offer a higher priced package? One that will include physical items like that art book you were talking about T-Ray? I wants that ;) Perhaps a dog tag in it too?

nope, not in the plans

[Baneblade]

My money is on the separate Collector's Edition for launch.

[T-Ray]

My money is on the separate Collector's Edition for launch.

who knows, right now, its not in the plans. Joe and I are working on the art book with the hopes of selling it at SOE LIVE

[Hamma]

Man that would be awesome if they do I'll totally be buying a few.

Sad on no collectors edition :(

[derito]

who knows, right now, its not in the plans. Joe and I are working on the art book with the hopes of selling it at SOE LIVE

I hope you will have a thought for those living on another continent and make it purchaisable online :groovy:

[Ipimpnoobs]

I don't know if joe is the asian dude that drew the gun on the fast forward vid, but you guys need to highlight that guy and I hope he gets royalties. His work is tight, awesome and fantastic! Shit, give him a website called Bob Ross's master dot com. If I had that dudes skill, I would have already made my own art design company.

lagggggn bro...laggn


Oh and about the Micheal Jackson.... was that a racist joke? I always new hig was a KKK Klansmen. I'm jus say'n...its kinda odd. Plus the *** fro joke in that one video. Then he did that Jayce joke commercial acting like a "southern" person. It's 2012, can't we just all get a long.

[Jonny]

We are here for the community as the community is here for us. I love this team, community, and this game just like you guys do.

As you and Matt are reading this thread, I'd like to spew a little on this game in general in the hope that you read this. I am and will be doing my fair share of bug reporting and complaining when I see mechanics that don't work well or what I think are hastily made changes/additions to the game. (such as my comments in my previous post)

Firstly I'd like to thank you as developers for your amazing energy and from what I’ve seen, the best developer interaction with their community. You obviously know how important this is and you seem to be taking the right approach to making steady changes and improvements based on the feedback you are getting from players. Keep it up!

I still have my concerns about how this game turns out but I want to also voice my praises from my limited (and bad fps – im getting a new PC) experiences so far.

Praise!


Awesome scale and epic feeling to the battles. It’s amazing seeing a gal fly overhead with its engines shimmering, or she sun rising and flooding the sky in pink. For the most part, gorgeous world and lighting.

Good feeling to the guns, turrets and most of all vehicles in the game. It felt great the first time I got in a reaver and crashed it into the ground tail first. Love the learning curve with flying which I can tell is something that can be practised to perfection.

Gorgeous vehicle design all round.

Good explosions/particle effects (especially at night with tracers)

It’s awesome to work as a team in this game.

Sound. (Music is growing on me) Just really great sound design in this game, from galaxy engines to distant echoing booms of explosions. Very impressed!

Concerns!


A few aspects of character design (unlikely to change I know)

Character movement animations are decent but I think could be better/smoother.

The big picture goals to the game – will there be a win conditions like continent locks? Will there be freedom to fly between continents? These are aspects of the first games which seemed good but are not yet in Planeside 2. (Didn't play PS1 so not an authority on this at all. I understand PS2 is a different game but its most similar to PS1 so surely it can learn from it)


-----

I can’t wait to experience it properly once I can run it smoothly, and I hope you can get the game more playable for older hardware too.

Thanks for all your hard work.

[Diehard]

I would like to comment on the character animation as well, right now for me they look a bit awkward, esp. the run cycle. Other than that, awesome jobs devs!

[Tatwi]

ok, I'm going to start this conversation off like this. Respect the work that was done if you truly want a respectful response. I may be a dev and I may work for Sony but that doesn't mean that I wont speak my mind when someone insults the hard work that my team put in on this project. It's ok not to like everything in the game. I have no illusions that everyone will love everything we do but if you really want a dialogue with me then you better come correct with the question.

anyway. Each non-neutral tint will have faction specific colors in them so that no one can buy a tint that makes them look like the other factions. I tweeted out the color palettes some time ago. We will be using the colors combinations from each one of those swatches to tint non-neutral camo patterns. So if you have a digital camo it will be a tones in the range of grey, warm grey, red, and charcoal for the TR.

As a person who has three young children, I'm sorry to have offended you by saying that the suit "camo" looks like something they've done, but that's what came to my mind and that's what I shared. Perhaps I should keep my "sense of humour" to myself. I am, however, not at all sorry that I don't like the "camo" and that I find it ugly and that I told you so; These things happen.

Incidentally, I think the tank "camos" look fine, largely because they aren't a bunch of tiny splotches of colour, but swaths of colour that compliment the shape of the tanks.

http://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/images/e/ec/TRRexoArmors2.jpg

I would have preferred a design along the lines of the far right in this picture, which is a progression of the design on the far left. Instead we have the "camo" offered in the Alpha Squad, which to me just seems flamboyant for the sake being so and more like a pair of PJs than a military uniform. Add to that how I don't appreciate the visual effect of "camo pattern" and you end up at my disappointment that it's the only suit that comes with the AS. I think that's a fair and reasonable assessment and expression of my feelings on the matter.

Douching it up with pride, Gangnam style,

- Tatwi

[EVILPIG]

I like the way the Alpha camos look, but either way, I think the point is to have them recognizable to distinguish who is flaunting their Alpha. I will be personally hosting an all Alpha Squad Raid. ;)

[Dagron]

The guy didn't like the camo and tried to convey how much he disliked it. It's easy to get offended when people criticize us on the internet because of all the trolls and jerks, but in this case (probably because it wasn't directed at me) it didn't sound to me like he was trying to insult anyone. While discussing on internet forums, sometimes we all make over the top comments without thinking of how others will feel about it and also overreact to such comments when they're directed at ourselves (i know i often do). Knowing that, i always try to remember to add a grain of salt.

Now, i don't want to piss anyone off, but i feel that if we don't like something, we should talk about it (otherwise how will people know that there's a part of the community that was expecting something better?). That said, i'm sorry to say that i'm not a fan of the AS infantry camo either, i wouldn't buy it if it was in the store. In fact since cosmetics are the only reason i'd buy the AS pack, i feel that a simple camo that doesn't feel particularly special doesn't make me want to buy any more SC than i already have (i bought some because i want to support PS2), and that's what the AS is: SC with some free stuff that doesn't interest me.

[ISVRaDa]

I bought my "Alpha Squad" today ^^

Now I need a new PC for the release...:p

[Soothsayer]

Hey Higby or TRay, I'm not sure who to go to with this, but when I try to buy the alpha squad from that link it gives me an error.

I'm pretty close to being maxed out on SC, (the SC from the pack would put me over the 50k limit) so I'm wondering if that's what it is. I've submitted a ticket though.

[RoninOni]

ok, I'm going to start this conversation off like this. Respect the work that was done if you truly want a respectful response. I may be a dev and I may work for Sony but that doesn't mean that I wont speak my mind when someone insults the hard work that my team put in on this project. It's ok not to like everything in the game. I have no illusions that everyone will love everything we do but if you really want a dialogue with me then you better come correct with the question.

Real Talk. :lol:

I understand how lots of people may not like X or Y about a game in development and they want to make the devs hear and understand their feelings.....

but how attacking their work with derogatory statements ever going to help you sell your ideas?

I see this a LOT, on the multitude of beta forums I'm on or been on. Even worse are the direct personal attacks.

Respect and Courtesy make the world go round. If you ain't with that, you're gonna find yourself left behind everytime. :cool:

The guy didn't like the camo and tried to convey how much he disliked it.

He could have simply said

"Hey TRay, I know a lot of people love this camo but I just never see myself using it, not my style. Any chance for..."

And there would have been nothing wrong with that.

Instead he said that their professional hard work looked like "child's scribbling", was ugly, and a few other unnecessary opinionated criticisms. That's derogatory... ESPECIALLY to an artist.

It's fine not to like something, you don't need to invent insults to convey that though... just say "hey, I don't really like it"

[Raka Maru]

When I first saw the AS skins, the first thing that came to mind was extreme faction pride. I think that was the look they were going for. I would wear it for events as well as when I'm not trying to blend in.

Bought the AS pack, as I said before. Glad to be part of AS. Bought it for the Title (Founder), everything else was gravy and good for me.

Awesome job Devs!!!

[T-Ray]

As you and Matt are reading this thread, I'd like to spew a little on this game in general in the hope that you read this. I am and will be doing my fair share of bug reporting and complaining when I see mechanics that don't work well or what I think are hastily made changes/additions to the game. (such as my comments in my previous post)

Firstly I'd like to thank you as developers for your amazing energy and from what I’ve seen, the best developer interaction with their community. You obviously know how important this is and you seem to be taking the right approach to making steady changes and improvements based on the feedback you are getting from players. Keep it up!

I still have my concerns about how this game turns out but I want to also voice my praises from my limited (and bad fps – im getting a new PC) experiences so far.

Praise!


Awesome scale and epic feeling to the battles. It’s amazing seeing a gal fly overhead with its engines shimmering, or she sun rising and flooding the sky in pink. For the most part, gorgeous world and lighting.

Good feeling to the guns, turrets and most of all vehicles in the game. It felt great the first time I got in a reaver and crashed it into the ground tail first. Love the learning curve with flying which I can tell is something that can be practised to perfection.

Gorgeous vehicle design all round.

Good explosions/particle effects (especially at night with tracers)

It’s awesome to work as a team in this game.

Sound. (Music is growing on me) Just really great sound design in this game, from galaxy engines to distant echoing booms of explosions. Very impressed!

Concerns!


A few aspects of character design (unlikely to change I know)

Character movement animations are decent but I think could be better/smoother.

The big picture goals to the game – will there be a win conditions like continent locks? Will there be freedom to fly between continents? These are aspects of the first games which seemed good but are not yet in Planeside 2. (Didn't play PS1 so not an authority on this at all. I understand PS2 is a different game but its most similar to PS1 so surely it can learn from it)


-----
A few aspects of character design (unlikely to change I know)???

like what?

I would like to comment on the character animation as well, right now for me they look a bit awkward, esp. the run cycle. Other than that, awesome jobs devs!

been having this convo with the lead animator

As a person who has three young children, I'm sorry to have offended you by saying that the suit "camo" looks like something they've done, but that's what came to my mind and that's what I shared. Perhaps I should keep my "sense of humour" to myself. I am, however, not at all sorry that I don't like the "camo" and that I find it ugly and that I told you so; These things happen.

Incidentally, I think the tank "camos" look fine, largely because they aren't a bunch of tiny splotches of colour, but swaths of colour that compliment the shape of the tanks.

http://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/images/e/ec/TRRexoArmors2.jpg

I would have preferred a design along the lines of the far right in this picture, which is a progression of the design on the far left. Instead we have the "camo" offered in the Alpha Squad, which to me just seems flamboyant for the sake being so and more like a pair of PJs than a military uniform. Add to that how I don't appreciate the visual effect of "camo pattern" and you end up at my disappointment that it's the only suit that comes with the AS. I think that's a fair and reasonable assessment and expression of my feelings on the matter.

Douching it up with pride, Gangnam style,

- Tatwi

So you know, there is only one camo pattern? the one on the tank is the same one on the character. So the character looks like a 3rd grader did it but the take looks pro? i'm not really sure how that is possible.

As to the progression in Planetside2 the characters dont rank up that way mainly because we wanted the players to have a choice in what he or she looked like at every step of the way.

No need to diss the new cams in order to ask for the old.

If this conversation could begin again...

Tatwi: Tray can we have throwback cams?
Tray: Love you guys, I'll put that on the to-do list.

Simples. It is not what you say, it is how you say it.

we are planning on putting in the old models as is, so if you want your old ps1 char, you can look just like that in ps2

Hey Higby or TRay, I'm not sure who to go to with this, but when I try to buy the alpha squad from that link it gives me an error.

I'm pretty close to being maxed out on SC, (the SC from the pack would put me over the 50k limit) so I'm wondering if that's what it is. I've submitted a ticket though.

its because of the limit. hit this guy up on twitter he can help you..@thegreatmutato

Real Talk. :lol:

I understand how lots of people may not like X or Y about a game in development and they want to make the devs hear and understand their feelings.....

but how attacking their work with derogatory statements ever going to help you sell your ideas?

I see this a LOT, on the multitude of beta forums I'm on or been on. Even worse are the direct personal attacks.

Respect and Courtesy make the world go round. If you ain't with that, you're gonna find yourself left behind everytime. :cool:

and its just that simple ;) werd ... forum is saying i have to be at least 4 characters so I am typing more than i need to

He could have simply said

"Hey TRay, I know a lot of people love this camo but I just never see myself using it, not my style. Any chance for..."

And there would have been nothing wrong with that.

Instead he said that their professional hard work looked like "child's scribbling", was ugly, and a few other unnecessary opinionated criticisms. That's derogatory... ESPECIALLY to an artist.

It's fine not to like something, you don't need to invent insults to convey that though... just say "hey, I don't really like it"

and of course the forum is tripping it wont let me post

[Froglicker]

A few aspects of character design (unlikely to change I know)???

like what?


Are there going to be any changes/tweaks/improvements to the VS MAX's current default look? I've mentioned a few times on the beta forums that the current VS MAX's look less like an exo-suit that either gender could wear, and more like a large muscular man wearing gun hands and a few bits of armor.

With the NC/TR MAX's, I can believe that a female may be in there with very thick protection. The VS MAX on the other hand, doesn't invoke that feeling. Rather, it invokes in me the idea of the big semi-shirtless muscular guy they send after the hero in action movies (not that those guys aren't awesome or intimidating. They just don't fit with what MAXes are described as).

I've heard that with certain customization options they'll get their shoulder pads and jetpack-thingies back, but without them (or something to replace them) they look a bit naked.

One idea to handle this may be to add more bits of visual armor, like on the shoulders, back, chest, and legs. Another may be to add more mechanical and wire-y bits to increase the mechanical look of the suit closer to the concept art, rather than parts looking like sculpted muscle.

[Sturmhardt]

I bought the alpha squad package to support the game and the devs. Still I think the Camo does not look pretty on the nc soldiers (Im nc), no offense. Also the alpha squad decal is not something I would have bought because it is so beautiful ;)
I don't need a ps2 decal in ps2 to be honest.

Still,I bought it because pretty much everything else is great about ps2 and right now it is the only fps that could some day make me truly happy in a gaming manner of speaking. Keep up the good work!

[Dagron]

So you know, there is only one camo pattern?
The problem seems to be with the scale, in the AS page pics the pattern is barely discernible in the infantry uniforms.

[Shogun]

The problem seems to be with the scale, in the AS page pics the pattern is barely discernible in the infantry uniforms.

that´s what i think as well. the patterns work great for the vehicles, but most patterns i have seen so far didn´t translate too good on the soldiers.
but i don´t know how to solve this. i think every camo pattern will look better on tanks than on soldiers due to the many many small parts on the soldier models.
but maybe playing around with the scale of the patterns could give better results on soldiers?

on a sidenote: i´m all for infrictions followed by bans for everybody who openly insults devs or their work on this forums in a purely negative way. and those who think they are just using their humour should remember to add emoticons in the appropriate lines. that´s what they are for. you don´t want to make t-ray higby or any other dev mad! i´m happy the devs still write here! there has been some nasty posts over the time...

[Jonny]

A few aspects of character design (unlikely to change I know)???

A few aspects of character design that struck me as soon as I saw the released screenshots of the different classes all those months ago. (Mainly Vanu)

That being said, some of my worries vanished seeing soldiers in 3D, moving around in the game.(Though as I said I think the animations are good but can improve) I also played as Vanu for the first time last night and the character models looked better than in those initial screenshots.

Ill post up some images and a proper post later to show you what I mean if you're interested, I'm on lunch at work right now.

Its obviously just my opinion on the matter but I'd like to think I have some artistic/design knowledge to back it up.

[EDIT] I'd also like to say that aside from my few concerns I'm not discrediting the modellers/animators at all, (if you haven't already got how I feel about this game from my positive feedback) but want to give constructive feedback rather than just shrug off my instinctive reactions to the designs. The art and modelling in this game is very well done.

[Masterr]

T-Ray

I just wanted to say that I went from blue to purple. Love the VS look, weapons, vehicles, and music.

When new weapon models/attachments come out, please keep the VS with the glowing guns at night. Its pretty, reminds me of tron legacy....and its just pretty. That 3.4x zoom scope looks awesome at night.

[Tatwi]

So you know, there is only one camo pattern? the one on the tank is the same one on the character. So the character looks like a 3rd grader did it but the take looks pro? i'm not really sure how that is possible.

As to the progression in Planetside2 the characters dont rank up that way mainly because we wanted the players to have a choice in what he or she looked like at every step of the way.


Sorry. :groovy: What I meant was that I would have preferred something akin to the far right suit rather than the camo, when I gave the PS1 suits as an example. It's more "bad ass" :jawdrop: than the flamboyant camo :bouncy:. Nice to know that the PS1 uniforms will be in PS2 - lots of cool artwork in them! :cheers:

As other folks have pointed out, it's the scale of the camo that is the issue. :D On the tanks, they are big swaths of colour, but on the people, they are tiny splotches of colour. :groovy: The end result is that the tanks look classy and the people look like they are wearing themed pjs. :groovy:

Size always matters. :rofl:

[redback911]

$40 for $40 worth of station cash plus some other Planetside 2 goodies? I'm sold. Let the "Shut up and take my money!" begin. :thumbsup:

Exactly, easy decision! Just purchased.

[Jonny]

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/502/lightassaultbehind.jpg/

Very tired, so bear with my rambling..

Though the models currently look better in game than these screenshots, my initial concerns with the models were mostly to do with vanu - some body part sizes. Above is one example where the characters thighs and bum looks strangely small.

I have some personal feedback on the vanu armour too. Its very minimalistic (plus I probably haven't seen customisations) but I like the more plate armour style, like the heavy assault has or as seen in screens of the PS1 Vanu armour. Less Star Trek and more crysis/mass effect style I suppose.

I also think that it would be nice to see that interesting alien green sheen (like a beetles back or the bird image below) on purple vanu armour, rather than just green or purple armour. This seemed to be present in PS1.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/vanubird.jpg/


Just my two cents...as they say.

[Dagron]

Is the camo already in game? I'd like to see more pics of it, or possibly a video. It just occurred to me that it might not be that i don't like the camo, just the pics that may not do it justice.

[Raka Maru]

Come on Devs, let us wear/use the skins in beta if we already purchased! :)