@snaffe SOE Planetside 2 Financial Situation

[Ipimpnoobs]

I thought I would create a thread out of this, it really is eye opening.

Remember Sony isn't doing great financially, there will be, I think, pressure to deliver the moniez on this game substantially before whenever their fiscal ends (this is what I think at least, happy to be corrected!).

This is the most important thing you wrote and imo right on. They are definitely banking on this. I was looking at their other games and there is no way they are raking in enough to cover their nut in this division. Lucky for them Sony still has the best A&V equipment and customer support in that division to boot. IMO that money is keeping the lights on at SOE san diego and it is also the reason we love sony. Quality electronics and MOVIES!!

Also, they are releasing PS2 close to xmas (4th quarter) to justify losses midyear. If I was the CFO, I would be pleading with Smed saying something to the effect, "it's the job loss factor. Things will pick up!" He may have very well probed the potential customers with "Alpha squad" to see if they have a "hit" to report back. Then when he got home, checked the corporate website for a ehem, "lateral growth opportunity," as should everyone else currently working there. How's everybody's Japanese? When you run out of cheese, you got to find some more, no?

Here is their stock info:
Select a 5 year trend. Ohhh noes, it's going the wrong way.
https://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:SNE

I can guarantee you, if this game doesn't do well Smed is going to be replacing whoever he has in the SOE division that is calling shots or even be replaced himself. Oh and I know it won't be the art director. In poker, we call this All-in with no outs.

Take a look at what they are pushing on the sony website...cell phones. Tell me one person you know of that said I'm going to Verizon or At&t to get a sony cell phone. http://www.sony.com/index.php

Now check out this article from the first quarter of this year 04/12/12 07:49 AM
Sony Layoffs Confirmed: CEO Will Cut 10,000 Jobs
source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/12/sony-layoffs_n_1420229.html

TOKYO -- Faced with mounting losses, Sony Corp. said Thursday it will slash 10,000 jobs, or about 6 percent of its global workforce, and try to turn around its money-losing TV business over the next two years.

New CEO and President Kazuo Hirai outlined his business strategy at a big press conference where he pledged to revive the electronics and entertainment company. Sony earlier this week more than doubled its annual net loss projection for the fiscal year through this past March to 520 billion yen, or $6.4 billion. That would be its fourth straight year of red ink and worst loss ever.

"As CEO, I take this very seriously. But at the same time, it strengthened my resolve to transform Sony," Hirai told hundreds of journalists. "Employees too want to restore Sony to its former glory and go beyond."

Sorry for the doom and gloom. Miracles do happen though. Maybe tomorrow we'll all wake up and the economy will be back to full throttle. Until then, I surely won't be buying Sony stock for at least 5 years.

But, I will be supporting Planetside 2 and so should you. Discuss?!

Disclaimer: This is my opinion and they say they are like aholes... everyone has one.

[Sledgecrushr]

Rght now sony is desperate. And this desperation has led them to take a massive risk on a free game. I have been playing PS2 beta for the last few weeks and this company has worked a not so small miracle. This game will be the engine that drives soe for the next five years at least.

[Canaris]

well I do my part, bought 2 Alpha squad sales for myself & my bro.

Also my ancient creative mp3 player finally died on me last week after about 8 years of good service, went to get another and told the electro clerk guy "Whatever your going to show me it had better not be an Apple".
Guy replies "I can see you know your players, I'd only recommend the Sony on then"

My new Sony Walkman is the bomb :D

[snaffe]

Dafuq a thread title with my name must read it :)

Ipimpnoobs: I think one of the main reasons they launched the Founder's package, is obviously not just get money, but rather use it as intel as to purchase rates etc. Stuff they can either use to project their...projected future income, or to talk in investor calls. One would be surprised as to what stuff they hold onto in investor calls and something that is quantifiable is probably actually quite good to hold off any potential angry large scale investors (I haven't followed Sony closely at all, and have no idea if the investors are crying out for blood or not, or who the investors are, if there even are any).

My off the *** pack calculations with a 5 million player count, where
50% spent 40 dollars in the first year,
5% spend 100 dollars, and
20% spend 10 dollars and
25% spend nothing.

You're looking at 165 million US. So, considering Playstation is running losses in the billions, Planetside probably need to sell a heck of a lot more content than that.

I think they must be toying with subscriptions with serious incentives to keep people spending. I have no idea about the cashflow situation at Sony, but you can't take billion dollar losses without serious cash resources, or investor confidence. If investor confidence is gone, people would probably have to ehm.....expect some ....well, "creative" ways to part money from people (pay to win?). Just speculating.

Note: I have no idea if 5 million players is low or high or expected. It could very well be 10 million. Or 15 million.

Just re-read your post and you're saying what I'm saying, again (with the "is the Alpha squad concept working).

[Diehard]

I bought the alpha squad already. I am also planning to replace my old Sony Ericsson W995 with the new Xperia T once it comes out. :D

[Poser]

I was going to buy Alpha Squad but I already have $40 worth of SC.

[Hmr85]

I will be buying the Alpha pack but not till this weekend. All the bonus goodies along with 40 bucks of station cash. Why would you not want to get it?

[Crator]

Only reason I was holding out on not buying the Alpha Squad offer was I hoping for a better offer with more stuff. T-Ray confirmed last night that they are not planning on anything else so I'm probably going to be buying this soon.

[Mox]

Another interesting issue regarding the finacial situation of SOE is the saleout of the european marked to Pro7/Sat1.

I'm not sure why they did it.
Perhaps they think they aren't able to press enough money out of europe and Pro7/Sat1 will do a better job in this.
Or they just sold all there games because they needed the money really fast,

[sylphaen]

Another interesting issue regarding the finacial situation of SOE is the saleout of the european marked to Pro7/Sat1.

I'm not sure why they did it.
Perhaps they think they aren't able to press enough money out of europe and Pro7/Sat1 will do a better job in this.
Or they just sold all there games because they needed the money really fast,

And not least, they also sold the Chinese customers to The9. It will be interesting to see how the game will progress in those 3 markets. Especially during crisis time.

As a matter of fact, the whole picture will also be interesting to see evolve.

[Crator]

Another interesting issue regarding the finacial situation of SOE is the saleout of the european marked to Pro7/Sat1.

I'm not sure why they did it.
Perhaps they think they aren't able to press enough money out of europe and Pro7/Sat1 will do a better job in this.
Or they just sold all there games because they needed the money really fast,

I believe SOE has said they did this due to different laws in those countries.

[snaffe]

The Pro7 and The9 are quite interesting as others mentioned above.

I work in managing contact centres in my day to day job - and setting up an operation for Europe if you don't have it already would be quite costly (not to mention time investment and keeping on top of things). It seems that SOE's Planetside 2 is operating as fairly ..hmm, well on their own? I don't know what setup other SOE games have. I would have thought there would have been some EU support previously, but maybe not.

It seems like SOE are trying to press for new markets - but can't get the funding to setup the EU "infrastructure" required (publishing, customer care, content etc) - so have to to utilize joint ventures until there's enough proof in the pudding that they are creating games that lead to revenue and profit. Who knows, there might be the need to setup a EU "support infrastructure" under SOE leadership.

SOE - I'm happy to take on a consultancy role when that time comes, as required :P

I believe SOE has said they did this due to different laws in those countries.

It means they don't have the resource-time-setup to cope with the markets.

There are global companies with a presence in all possible countries - and SOE say they can't because of "law reasons" doesn't exactly ...ehm..well, pass the "is this the real reason?"-test.

Right, I'm off to shoot some smurfs and fishies.

[Fenrys]

Last I read, SOE MMO's and the Playstation lineup were the only profitable ventures at Sony. They made the Playstation honcho into their new CEO (replacing the white guy who didn't speak Japanese who's orders were not being followed).

Planetside, Everquest, Playstation, and a pocket full of maxed-out credit cards is all that's keeping Sony floating.

To say they are unusually interested in seeing Planetside 2 succeed would be an understatement.

[Mox]

Planetside, Everquest, Playstation, and a pocket full of maxed-out credit cards is all that's keeping Sony floating.

To say they are unusually interested in seeing Planetside 2 succeed would be an understatement.

Don't overestimate the role of SOE for Sony. Sony is a multi billion global player. SOE makes around 150 millions a year. They are peanuts for Sony.

[SpottyGekko]

Don't focus too much on Planetside 2 as the sole saviour of SOE. It is the cheerleader for the LightForge engine, but they'll be rolling out other new games built on this engine.

So Planetside 2 has to prove it can cut the mustard performance-wise, but it doesn't have to carry the burden of being the only source of revenue indefinitely. There's more MMO's in the development pipe at SOE.

SOE's biggest gamble is in developing "AAA MMO's" straight for the F2P market. This is their stated policy for all future MMO's. That means no huge revenue spike from initial box/digital sales followed by 6 to 12 months of monthly sub income. The "Alpha Squad" package is the closest they'll get to initial box sales.

At least they are trying new and risky things like the player-generated game assets. It IS industry changing. If they keep on pushing the boundaries like that, they will probably survive. They might even thrive.

[Goku]

Don't overestimate the role of SOE for Sony. Sony is a multi billion global player. SOE makes around 150 millions a year. They are peanuts for Sony.

This. Sony is in the red at the moment, but from what I'm reading that is mostly due to the TV division. It isn't like SOE is bringing the company down billions every year. While I want PS2 to succeed to ridiculous heights, this isn't going to bring the entire company into the black. What I'm saying is I doubt SOE is in a rush to get PS2 out the door due to this.

[Syphus]

This. Sony is in the red at the moment, but from what I'm reading that is mostly due to the TV division. It isn't like SOE is bringing the company down billions every year. While I want PS2 to succeed to ridiculous heights, this isn't going to bring the entire company into the black. What I'm saying is I doubt SOE is in a rush to get PS2 out the door due to this.

I just wanted to quote this, SOE is really just a speck in the Sony empire. I doubt the higher ups in Japan even know what SOE is.

[sameer]

Glad I didnt buy the founder pack. It def. wont be ready by the end of this year. Im holding back my wallet till Im comfortable with the state of the game.

[Tatwi]

I think what is sad is that Sharp had to mortgage its factories, even though it makes every LCD display in the iphones and ipads and Apple is making a killing in profit on those devices. Obviously Sharp isn't seeing its fair share of profits on its displays, yet the people it manufactures them for sure are (HP, Dell, Apple, etc). Sony doesn't have this problem, but the sales of their own screens are feeling the result of it: Other screen/TV/computer makers are selling for so cheap that Sony's products *seem* expensive.

Sony has always interested me as a company. While they are into everything, from an outsider it seems like they don't have much of a unified culture that supports the Sony way. Look at SOE, who uses Dell computers and who's president said that any phone that isn't an iPhone sucks (which I would assume included the Sony Xperia line of Andriod phones). It's great that Smed will stand behind a product based on the product's merits rather than it's brand name, but at the same time I have wonder why he doesn't instead sit down with his other Sony brothers and sisters and say, "this is what you need to do to make me use an Xperia instead of this iPhone". Same with the computers in the office, those should all be Sony and if their not, Sony needs to know why and they need to fix it!

By rights, given all the things that Sony is into, I should be able to have a Sony branded device for every tech thing that I do, because I like Sony. However, this is what I have,

TV: Dynex
Desktop Computer: Self built (in a modified 1991 AT server tower!)
Computer Monitor: Samsung
Laptops: Dell Inspiron
Netbook: MSi Wind
Phone: Blackberry 9900
Tablet: Blackberry Playbook
E-Reader: Kobo
MP3 Player: Blackberry 9900 (really, who needs a dedicated player these days?)
Game Consoles: Nintendo Wii (for the kids, not much into consoles myself)
Stereo: Sony!
Camera: Cannon
Camcorder: We just use the camera
Handheld Console: Sony and Nintendo. I used to have a PSP, but I sold it because I found I never had time to use it so it never got used. We still have a DSLite around for the kids though.

If Sony merged with Research in Motion (which I think would be a good brand mix), then my next phone/"portable media/Internet thing" would be a Blackberry Xperia. I like the physical keyboard and the workflow of the Blackberry OS, but at the same time I would love to have more media capabilities and better hardware specs that something like the Xperia Play line has.

If I wasn't concerned about the kids shoving a broom handle through it, I'd pay the premium to buy a larger Sony TV, but the 32" Dynex we have now is fine.

Our laptops/netbook/tablet get the job done, so no need to buy a new one. Would I buy a Sony laptop? An all metal design, yes I would save up for that, but if it's plastic I may as well buy a Dell and save a few hundred dollars. :(

Sony desktop? Can't do it... just can't buy an OEM computer... But I might buy a Sony monitor if it was around the same price as a Samsung.

I've been considering getting a Playstation 3 for years, but I haven't actually bought one because I figured I/we would rarely use it. We rarely use the Wii. But we all use our computers all the time (kids use a Dell laptop with Linux and a sturdy old Dell CRT monitor. TuxPaint FTW!). We watch TV, but we're not into Blueray or HD channels, etc. so what we have will suffice.

We do want to get a new camera and I am willing to see what Sony has to offer.

Anyhow, all this stuff adds up to what I imagine is the biggest problem for Sony as a corporation:

Outside of its movies, music, and professional camera/video device businesses they just don't have products that are compelling enough to get consumers to switch from what they already have. Add to that the likely reality that everyone who would get a PS3 already has one, and you have a pretty clear picture as to the lack of growth for Sony as a whole.

I think that if they consolidate their branches a bit more, perhaps merging the professional movie camera folks (who are doing well and may prove to be inspirational) with the PC, TV, and mobile hardware divisions, there may be more of a cohesive consumer facing Sony brand of products again. Anyone who was a kid in the 80s and 90s knows what a Walkman is, yet the Sony Walkman branded cell phones of the early 2000s didn't sell all that well. I think it's because of this lack of Sony culture and lack of product cohesion. We consumers see "Sony", but it no longer speaks to us. A round of products that compliment each other, such that having one makes you feel compelled to have other "satellite" products, is what Sony needs - similar to how I bought the Playbook rather than a different tablet, simply because it integrates with my Blackberry in useful ways.

Anyhow, I hope Sony pulls itself out of the hole. They have made some solid products and done their own thing over the years, which is good for the industry and consumers alike. Would be sad to see them fold or sold off in pieces to other companies. like what happened to the real HP.

[Hosp]

Guess this has gone from a help SOE thread to a save Sony thread.

Along those lines however, they did do it to themselves. What do i mean? I mean they went from producing top of the line new edge stuff everyone wants to middle of the line mediocre stuff that's sometimes overpriced.

My Examples:

Camera: I started with cannon, tried sony, went right back to cannon. Yes, it was that bad.

Tablet: Did alot of research before buying my tablet, but my bang for the buck was an Asus Transformer. Little underpowered, but for what i use it for vs cost and features, it was a better buy.

Laptop: I believe they still make good laptops. But that market is large enough now that like the tablets, I'd have to do some serious research before
choosing. (all i know is it wont be a Dell.:evil:)

Monitor: My choice of monitors is Viewsonic.
Computers: Build my own.
Speakers: Bose

TV: not in the market, but again, it'll be a tough sell for me to buy a sony over another.

Phone: :mad:

So yes, Tatwi, I'm agreeing with ya.

[Crator]

(all i know is it wont be a Dell.:evil:)

Is there something wrong with Dell consumer line of laptops? I'm used to using the business models only.

[Ipimpnoobs]

Is there something wrong with Dell consumer line of laptops? I'm used to using the business models only.

Absolutely not. Dell like you said, is used in most large corporations because they have a 24 hour turn around. There customer support is by far the best out of all the companies out there. They are a little bit expensive, but what you are really buying is the support. Most gamers, would never be caught dead with a dell, that is unless they have money to burn and don't want the headache of www.pricewatch.com They'll probably go with pricey Alienware.

I recently watched a channel 7 on your side episode showing local tech stores including best buy. There was a case were it took a week to swap a hard-drive and image it.

Another reason why dell is good, is it is hands down cheaper then supporting an internal hardware line. Imagine calling nvidia for the vid card problems etc... They consolidate and streamline pc building with maintenance. And, everything is proprietary. Lastly, they are international. Who else can do it better currently?

I remember back when gateway was still around. They were competition for a minute, and they up and dissipated.

[Syphus]

If Sony merged with Research in Motion (which I think would be a good brand mix), then my next phone/"portable media/Internet thing" would be a Blackberry Xperia.

It might be a good brand mix, but it would be a terrible business decision. RIM is a giant sinking ship and unless they start to right themselves I don't see why anyone would even want to touch that.

[Goku]

I think what is sad is that Sharp had to mortgage its factories, even though it makes every LCD display in the iphones and ipads and Apple is making a killing in profit on those devices. Obviously Sharp isn't seeing its fair share of profits on its displays, yet the people it manufactures them for sure are (HP, Dell, Apple, etc). Sony doesn't have this problem, but the sales of their own screens are feeling the result of it: Other screen/TV/computer makers are selling for so cheap that Sony's products *seem* expensive.

Sony has always interested me as a company. While they are into everything, from an outsider it seems like they don't have much of a unified culture that supports the Sony way. Look at SOE, who uses Dell computers and who's president said that any phone that isn't an iPhone sucks (which I would assume included the Sony Xperia line of Andriod phones). It's great that Smed will stand behind a product based on the product's merits rather than it's brand name, but at the same time I have wonder why he doesn't instead sit down with his other Sony brothers and sisters and say, "this is what you need to do to make me use an Xperia instead of this iPhone". Same with the computers in the office, those should all be Sony and if their not, Sony needs to know why and they need to fix it!



Perhaps this shows just how independent SOE is from Sony itself? No one should be worried about SOE going into the ground due to how the TV division of Sony is doing.

[ziegler]

Absolutely not. Dell like you said, is used in most large corporations because they have a 24 hour turn around. There customer support is by far the best out of all the companies out there.

Thanks ;)

Before you ask, I can neither confirm nor deny.





And, everything is proprietary.

Actually...most of Dell internals is not. Video card, like the Mbd, has the bios locked so you cant overclock it. But proc's, PSU's, and drives,controller card, no different from Newegg stuff.

[Ipimpnoobs]

I think what is sad is ....

I just wanted to say, you make some fantastic points. To add, if you go to Japan the country is saturated with innovation. Almost every product that is made their is by far imo of the highest quality globally. They are a society that seems will accept nothing less than perfection and are highly precision focused. From the way they fold their clothes Japanese way of folding T-shirts! - YouTube to the way the high tech manufacturing operates.

Look at this side by side comparison:
Japan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=dHnY5NjxC5c&NR=1

USA: 2013 Ford Escape Manufacturing - YouTube
Which one would you buy based on those videos? Did someone call osha yet... Just unbelievable.

Sadly, this precision pride concept is something that has been lost in all American made goods and U.S society as a whole. Maybe if they quit focusing on presidential birth certificates and the Kardashians, they could start using their brains to solve problems instead of using bombs. I'm jus' sayn!

The Japanese HQ CEO has a good point. Stick to what you do best. Check this...

Sony confirms...205 jobs gone, three studios closed.
Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-03-31-sony-confirms-the-agency-is-cancelled

"As part of a strategic decision to reduce costs and streamline its global workforce, SOE announced today that it will eliminate 205 positions and close its Denver, Seattle and Tucson studios," read a statement handed to Eurogamer."

One thing for sure is someone on the island, likes Smed

Lastly, I found out they are working on a new everquest, again. I assume they have 80% of their labor behind PS2 and 20% behind E? I'm not sure about that move strategically, does the market really need another fantasy game? Wizards, warriors and bears ohhh my! Plus, no one is talking about blizzards secret project... Very tough market...very tough indeed. Time to pull out the drums, tribal gear and dancing shoes for the rain dance that is about to partake.

[Salad Snake]

I just wanted to say, you make some fantastic points. To add, if you go to Japan the country is saturated with innovation. Almost every product that is made their is by far imo of the highest quality globally. They are a society that seems will accept nothing less than perfection and are highly precision focused. From the way they fold their clothes Japanese way of folding T-shirts! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5AWQ5aBjgE) to the way the high tech manufacturing operates.

Look at this side by side comparison:
Japan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=dHnY5NjxC5c&NR=1

USA: 2013 Ford Escape Manufacturing - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJSC81omgio)
Which one would you buy based on those videos? Did someone call osha yet... Just unbelievable.

Sadly, this precision pride concept is something that has been lost in all American made goods and U.S society as a whole. Maybe if they quit focusing on presidential birth certificates and the Kardashians, they could start using their brains to solve problems instead of using bombs. I'm jus' sayn!


That was a fantastic post, I fully agree. One thing that struck about the video; The Japanese factory had MUCH more machinery than the American one. That Japanese worker, no offense to him, was much less muscular than the American workers. However, the machinery available to him made strength a moot point, as well as made him more precise. Us Americans might be proud to use more "elbow grease", but it makes us less efficient as a result.

Personally, the whole American obsession with elbow grease & bootstraps has always subconsciously translated to brute strength & unnecessary risk over balance & a nuanced approach in my opinion. Which parallels the overly masculine culture in the US. Too many bombs, not enough diplomacy. Too many big trucks, not enough green cars. Too much resorting to violence & perpetuating cultural ignorance, not enough self-educating and peaceful protesting. Too much yang, not enough yin. It's a balance that Japan and Europe learned after the war, but the US never had whipped into it.


Meh, I'm going off on a tangent. I probably shouldn't be babbling so much at 3 in the morning. But I just wanted to say your post struck a chord with me.