Sunderers will be the new spawn.

[CutterJohn]

Read it here. (http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/solidifying-spawning-logistics.17169/)

Gals will still have spawn functionality, but it will be locked deep in the cert tree.

So. Now we will see if we were right. :D


Hey guys!

Spawning logistics have been a hot topic on the forums lately, and it's a subject that we care a lot about on the dev team as well. As usual we really appreciate all the feedback and ideas from you guys. We've been following these threads really closely, and I wanted to take a minute and talk about some of the changes we have in progress for this (extremely important) area of the game.

Right now we have two ways for you to set up forward spawning locations. Squad spawn beacons and Galaxies. We're going to give you guys one more, the Sunderer. Along with this change we're going to do some things to hopefully redefine and expand the roles of both the Sunderer and the Galaxy. These changes aren't going to happen over night, but within the next 2-3 weeks you should see them mostly completed and up to beta.

Sunderer changes:

Repair and Rearm functions of the Sunderer are going to be stripped, by default it'll be a 12 man transport vehicle
Repair, Rearm, Respawn and other cool toys like Blockade Armor (which allows you to drive through gate shields) will all be certifications for the Sunderer which unlock loadout choices. Which functionality you want to have with the Sunderer will be up to your loadout, you'll be able to select one of these benefits at a time.
Cert costs for each of those three options will be relatively low, meaning getting a Sunderer to be a mobile spawn point will be pretty easy
Further certifications such as deploying a cloaking field, stealth so it doesn't show up on radar, etc. will be evaluated to see if they're needed.

Galaxy changes:

By default, Galaxies will no longer be able to deploy as spawn points, but they will still be able to deploy into equipment terminals. Note: Terminals moving to a certification/attachment is a future possibility, but at first they will be available by default
Spawn tubes will be available for the Galaxy as a high level Galaxy cert, it will be expensive and far down the advancement tree. The thought behind this is that dedicated Gal pilots will be able to use the spawning functionality, rather than EVERY pilot. Some limitations may be implemented to keep the eventual "everyone unlocks everything" effect from making Galaxies the defacto spawn tool.
Other possible certification / loadout enhancements to the Galaxy include adding the ability to load a vehicle, have "powered" hot drops (drop pods), and allowing squad members to spawn into the transport variant while it's in flight.

Global changes:

Coming in the next patch MAXes will no longer be able to be spawned directly into, you'll have to go to an equipment terminal and in the following patch they will have a cooldown and resource cost as well. That means that you will not be able to spawn MAXes at Galaxies, Sunderers or squad spawn beacons. MAXes will be available at the equipment terminal on gals, but we may end up limiting that as well down the road, we'll make a determination on this based on beta further beta feedback.

Our goals with this are:


To make ground based forward spawning the primary forward spawning method and therefore enhance the importance of the ground vehicle game.
To put some limitations on the current degree to which Galaxies allow attackers to bypass defensive chokes.
To give hot drops and blockade running more tactical relevance, cause they're awesome.
To layer some additional role choices into our support vehicles.
As always, we're looking forward to hearing your feedback and looking forward to getting these changes out to you guys to play as soon as possible!
Thanks,

[Whiteagle]

My God, it's like they read my mind!

...Or maybe they just read my thread... (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=47822)

[Sunrock]

My God, it's like they read my mind!

...Or maybe they just read my thread... (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=47822)

Not only yours but allot of players have requested this in allot of different threads.

[CutterJohn]

Not only yours but allot of players have requested this in allot of different threads.

Yep. It has been one of the more vocal issues. And frankly surprisingly popular, at least with people who frequent the various forums. I'd say about 90% approval of one form or another.

Though with this change I really hope they change the price of galaxies and sunderers. 200 for a spawn is cheap. While 400 for air transport... Thats pretty expensive.

[Gugabalog]

Yes! Ground ops ftw!

[khord]

Love this idea. The more specialized they make everything, the better it is for everyone who wants to specialize

[Sunrock]

Though with this change I really hope they change the price of galaxies and sunderers. 200 for a spawn is cheap. While 400 for air transport... Thats pretty expensive.

Hmm I don't know... It's not that you're going to loose it quickly. And it's not going to be used like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVzZEpms2FQ&feature=plcp

[Flaropri]

I have the sudden urge to attach boomers to my Sunderer.


Anyway, interesting changes afoot.

[Phayz]

Im wondering how this will affect the ammo resupply. I already spend more time driving to a battle than firing my prowler because they run out so quick, then its quicker to die and repop a new one than to try and find a rearm station. The ammobus helped a lot on the when they were about but if that functionality is getting taken from the standard issue one then i hope they do something else to rebalance. Tanks with no ammo are not fun.

[Canaris]

I for one definitely think this is a step in the right direction, once you see all the crazy places people have been managing to park the Gals into as the spawn point it needed a big change, not to mention almost every Gal pilot became afraid to use theirs as a troop transport and hot drop people.

[PhoenixDog]

Thank Christ. Always hated the idea of Galaxies as the mobile spawn.

[typhaon]

I'm eager to try it out. This is going to shift a lot of focus to the infantry/armor part of the game...

These bases are a BIG... and with people already adapted to trying to find 'safe' spots to park galaxies... I think it's going to be like looking for a needle in a haystack to try and eliminate spawning sunderers. It'll be almost pointless. By the time you find 1... 5 more will be parked and spawning nearby.

Everyone grab a sundy and charge!

[CutterJohn]

I'm eager to try it out. This is going to shift a lot of focus to the infantry/armor part of the game...

These bases are a BIG... and with people already adapted to trying to find 'safe' spots to park galaxies... I think it's going to be like looking for a needle in a haystack to try and eliminate spawning sunderers. It'll be almost pointless. By the time you find 1... 5 more will be parked and spawning nearby.

Everyone grab a sundy and charge!

Yeah, this was one of the devs fears in the dev chat they had on saturday, that since EVERYONE has access to one, they are just going to be spammed everywhere.

At least with the gal you had a high cost cost, individuals inability to fly, and the fact they cannot be reliably hidden as barriers.

I've a feeling sundy spam will become an issue with as dirt cheap and widely available as they currently are. They'll probably have to limit them more, somehow.

[Canaris]

Yeah, this was one of the devs fears in the dev chat they had on saturday, that since EVERYONE has access to one, they are just going to be spammed everywhere.

At least with the gal you had a high cost cost, individuals inability to fly, and the fact they cannot be reliably hidden as barriers.

I've a feeling sundy spam will become an issue with as dirt cheap and widely available as they currently are. They'll probably have to limit them more, somehow.

PS1 had an area limiter in place, where you couldn't deploy another AMS if it was to close to one already deployed.
Maybe something like that could work

[Ghost Runner]

Solution seems simple enough create an alternate sundy (use same model) as a mobile spawn that will then cost more and require a special certification to unlock and use. Just my 2 cents.

[Timealude]

I have a feeling that the anti tank mines will become more popular after this is implemented

[Hmr85]

I believe this is a good change in the right direction. I really am glad to see the AMS come back in some form. Even if it is the sundy that will have it.

[Frotang]

Love this! also not allowing abilities to stack will further promote teamwork and numbers to be effective. Now an efficient infantry/armor column will require at least 3 sundies, one certed in repair, one rearm, and one spawn. I freaking love this idea so pumped to see it implemented and watch real organized mobile infantry do its job.

[Jonny]

Bravo to the devs for listening to the community as usual! This will probably bring its own list of pro's and con's and the game may not stay like this, but it's great they are experimenting with lots of different things so they can see the result on gameplay.

Then towards the end of the beta they can take everything they've learned and make more solid changes to the game.

[SpottyGekko]

This is REALLY great news !

Finally there will be the possibility of ground combat in the actual terrain between bases/outposts. Tactics and interdiction ! Currently, vehicles are a rare sight outside of base assaults. And the terrain features will actually become important, with canyons and hillsides having a significant effect on movement.

On Indar, VS will have a natural advantage with all their canyons. It will be hard to push through those corridors and will make for some heavy fighting. But it will be easier to restrict them to their territory, as they can only exit in strength at certain points...

NC will be busy, needing air and ground patrols to monitor movement on the plains. Any attackers that get into that open terrain will be hard to contain, but easy to spot.

TR will have a similar problem to NC, but instead of fast moving enemies they will have to spend time checking all the various hidey-holes. Air patrols will be essential.

One additional feature I'd like to see is that you cannot use the spawn terminals at a captured base unless the territory is linked to your own. Currently you need to link that territory back to your own to gain the resources, why not take that mechanic a step further ?

[Hamma]

Edited OP to include notes.

Most of you know I am pretty much a dedicated Galaxy pilot, as a Gal pilot I like these changes they will add even more specialization to the vehicle. Win/Win as far as I am concerned.

[Canaris]

Edited OP to include notes.

Most of you know I am pretty much a dedicated Galaxy pilot, as a Gal pilot I like these changes they will add even more specialization to the vehicle. Win/Win as far as I am concerned.

back to the hot drops of our sainted fathers...... well sainted us technically ;)

[Infernalis]

I don't think you will see a spam of Sundy and if you do there's many way to balance it like integrating a zone where you can't deploy near another AMS, SOI, ressources cost, etc. Also they won't be cloacked anymore and they're more fragile than a Galaxy.

[Gortha]

I am sure they read my thread too. :D

Good changes! Heads up!

[SniperSteve]

Good changes, I think!!!

[HellsPanda]

Well they could add a variable Resource cost increase to the various modules, to limit them also

[Emperor Newt]

Finally some love for my sundy. It's very annoying when nobody cares about you. Nobody get's in or anything. It's just like driving an empty bus around and after 30 minutes you decide to leave it be and join the fun with the Gal guys.

[Top Sgt]

all i know is they better add an area limit to it.. you know zerg outfits like the enclave and others are already planning to pull 15 + sundy's and park them all over as mobile spawns.. this could get out of hand quickly.. unless they make a radius limit on them.

Do that and it's fine.

[Shogun]

in my eyes there is one important thing that has to be thought of when the sunderer gets a spawn cert-module:

please change the appearance of the sunderer with the spawn capability!
maybe exchange the passanger cabin with a spawn tube similar to the old ams.

because it would be nice to be able to see if the incoming sunderer is just a transport or a spawn!

[Frotang]

all i know is they better add an area limit to it.. you know zerg outfits like the enclave and others are already planning to pull 15 + sundy's and park them all over as mobile spawns.. this could get out of hand quickly.. unless they make a radius limit on them.

Do that and it's fine.

Uhh wouldnt it have been even quicker / easier for zerfits to do this with a gal? At least with sundy you have to take the travel time and are much more endangered to enemy fire on your tavel.

[Crator]

Sweet! Thanks for listening DEVs!

[Miir]

I look forward to testing it out.

[Top Sgt]

Uhh wouldnt it have been even quicker / easier for zerfits to do this with a gal? At least with sundy you have to take the travel time and are much more endangered to enemy fire on your tavel.


it's not the travel time i am talking about.. i am saying sundy's are smaller and easier to hide.. you'l end up with 15+ ams in an area etc.. never ending AMS respawn etc.

But if they put in a area limit.. then it all works out just fine.

Atleast with gal's.. they were huge and easy for defenders to find and try to destroy.

[CutterJohn]

it's not the travel time i am talking about.. i am saying sundy's are smaller and easier to hide.. you'l end up with 15+ ams in an area etc.. never ending AMS respawn etc.

But if they put in a area limit.. then it all works out just fine.

Atleast with gal's.. they were huge and easy for defenders to find and try to destroy.

They also had the 'I can't fly!' drawback going for them.

Sundy spam may become an issue, but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Several things can be done to fix or mitigate the issue, if it even arises(though I believe it will).

[PurpleOtter]

Excellent addition to the game play mechanics...Now for the impending character wipe, loss of certs and Auraxium and no way to test it for weeks!

[Jonny]

Excellent addition to the game play mechanics...Now for the impending character wipe, loss of certs and Auraxium and no way to test it for weeks!

Hopefully not...

"Cert costs for each of those three options will be relatively low, meaning getting a Sunderer to be a mobile spawn point will be pretty easy."

[Rat]

Are we asking the sunderer to do too much? I love the idea, but assuming it is going to have guns, a cloak, and possibly 12 armed maniacs inside. Will it bee too powerfull right off the bat? one of the fun things about the AMS was sneaking a very vulnerable vehicle into bad places.
I do think it will be a lot of fun rolling into a base fully armed trying to get deployed and hold off the wolves until people start to spawn, but could it be too powerfull?
Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts.

[Frotang]

If they add the cloaking (i hope they dont) then id say it would be. But with non of these abilities being able to stack i think it may stay balanced, just have to wait and see.

[Infernalis]

Maybe going AMS removes the transport capacity and guns. Transporting whole squads is the primary role of the Galaxy after all.

[Syphus]

Are we asking the sunderer to do too much? I love the idea, but assuming it is going to have guns, a cloak, and possibly 12 armed maniacs inside. Will it bee too powerfull right off the bat? one of the fun things about the AMS was sneaking a very vulnerable vehicle into bad places.
I do think it will be a lot of fun rolling into a base fully armed trying to get deployed and hold off the wolves until people start to spawn, but could it be too powerfull?
Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts.


Since it's only one cert at a time, it doesn't explain if it'll lose the guns and space or not, but I don't think so at all.

[typhaon]

I'm not against it... I just think it will need some work. I do see how the Galaxy was negating a lot of the terrain features and think this will bring back some more interesting fights.

But... with a cert that is easy to get (as Higby stated), unless something is done to limit how easy it is to get Sunderers - I do think spam will be an early issue.

Sunderers are also pretty tough... and they can take out air/tanks.

So... we'll see how it goes!

[SGswift]

YES!! We were just talking about but this on TeamSpeak the other day, great Move.

[EVILPIG]

This is a step in the right direction towards evaluating if they should develop the AMS and whether a cloaking bubble is necessary. Big credit to the team for not just adding the cloaking without seeing how it impacts the game first.

[Tatwi]

F-YES! :)

All I need now is an A-Team skin (which fits the TR perfectly btw)
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2012/01/2fb6c6f9c200b4ca08942074185f7f2d.jpg

[Top Sgt]

I'm all for it being a PS2 version AMS.. that part is great.

it's just the spam of it that worries me.. so make it like an AMS no guns can't carry squads and they only function if outside of a radium of other sundy who are certed to AMS etc. if not you will seriously see so many of these at a base.. no way the defenders will be able to hold at all.. it's a never ending choice lol

[Shogun]

i am sure there will be huge tradeoffs for every ability, and only some combinations are possible.

so there will never be a cloaking tank with guns and 12 maniacs inside that can even spawn more maniacs, repair vehicles and bake brownies.

but having the sundy heavy moddable is awesome!
i would like to have the option to configure it like the old ams, so spawn and cloak, but no guns or passangers.

the look of the sundy should reflect its loadout, so people know what is coming their way. it´s a huge difference, if an unarmed ams is coming, or a heavy armed troop transport with full guns.

i am looking forward to test out the new ideas in beta! thanks, devs for listening and trying things!!

[Mastachief]

Love it!

[capiqu]

this could only help vehicular play increase more spawning saunderers more enemy air and tanks on the hunt. The more ddicated Saunderer drivers more spawn certs, Reapair certs and resupply certs. It will be good for the game.

[Exmortius]

spawning from both galaxy and the bus is going to make things interesting. i like where they are going with that. they should offer a cloak as well deep in the cert tree just to see in beta if it works or not. if it works well they should keep it if people hate it then just turn that feature off before game goes live. i think the cloak would be pretty sweet imo.

[Whiteagle]

Since it's only one cert at a time, it doesn't explain if it'll lose the guns and space or not, but I don't think so at all.
Well if they go with something like my Modular Equipment System (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=47822), a Spawn Sundy would trade half its seats and a good deal of health over the default transport version.

F-YES! :)

All I need now is an A-Team skin (which fits the TR perfectly btw)
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2012/01/2fb6c6f9c200b4ca08942074185f7f2d.jpg
Since you got this stuck in my head, I might as well return the favor...

[Raka Maru]

Yes!!! Very good news.

We know what's coming next, trade the guns and seats for the iconic cloak bubble. :)

This would make it feel 200% more like the Planetside we know and love.

Not to mention that Galexy drops will be back. +200% more. :D

[Rat]

Hopefully they will bring back the ability to tie your matrix to a spawn point, it would stop the issue of the flow coming from the same direction, I can see one sunder or gal spawning most of the zerg and possibly another at the other side of the base spawning a outfit matrixed to that spawn point.
This is assuming we only see the closest mobile spawn point to our death in the deployment screen.

[Raka Maru]

Hopefully they will bring back the ability to tie your matrix to a spawn point, it would stop the issue of the flow coming from the same direction, I can see one sunder or gal spawning most of the zerg and possibly another at the other side of the base spawning a outfit matrixed to that spawn point.
This is assuming we only see the closest mobile spawn point to our death in the deployment screen.

I see multiple Gal spawn points so I think they are using proximity rather than closest. Hope it stays that way, but matrix binding can only be a plus.

[Captain1nsaneo]

To those of you worried about sundy spam I point to Planetside.

Where there ever enough AMSs?

Right.

We'll probably see a spam of them for about a few days followed by a steep drop off. Also reading comprehension is a valuable skill, the respawn ability isn't a default, it's a cheap cert you buy for the sundy. Please untwist your panties, there is no need for your continued discomfort.

[Rat]

I cant wait, I have been in sooo many fights at smaller facilities, where a mobile spawn point was lost and all momentum is lost causing the fight to end just when things were getting good...hopefully we will be seeing a lot more spawn points between facilities.

[Wargrim]

All hail the new AMS, the Appropriately Modified Sunderer! :)

[Whiteagle]

Yes!!! Very good news.

We know what's coming next, trade the guns and seats for the iconic cloak bubble. :)

This would make it feel 200% more like the Planetside we know and love.

Not to mention that Galexy drops will be back. +200% more. :D
I really don't think a Cloaking Ability needs to take away weapons... (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=47822)

Why you may ask?

Since every bullet in this game is a tracer, firing while cloaked will just give away your position!

[Sunrock]

Since every bullet in this game is a tracer, firing while cloaked will just give away your position!

True. But being cloaked still give you an advantage. Say Mr. X approaching where the Sunderer is cloaked. You just wait and hold your fire until he is close enough for you to be able to easily kill him without risking missing a shot. The element of surprise is a bigger factor then any DPS meter can show.

[Whiteagle]

True. But being cloaked still give you an advantage. Say Mr. X approaching where the Sunderer is cloaked. You just wait and hold your fire until he is close enough for you to be able to easily kill him without risking missing a shot. The element of surprise is a bigger factor then any DPS meter can show.
Very true, but if you look at my thread, you'll see that the "Cloak Console" module idea only allows a non-Deployed Sunderer to Cloak for short periods of time.

My thinking is that, if someone were to walk up on your Secret Invisible Spawn Sundy, you'd want some means of defending the Vehicle.