A2A missiles are completely useless now

[CrystalViolet]

Not sure if this is a bug or the nerf was so heavy handed that it rendered them pointless, but the fact that nobody uses them anymore is evidence enough to suggest that there is a problem. What I'm seeing is that they now require you to be directly behind the enemy aircraft, within 20 or so meters, have the fighter dead center of the reticle, and wait 5-10 seconds for the lock to turn green. Since the nerf I've had more success dumb firing them at other aircraft, and I'm seeing more and more people using the A2G rockets in A2A combat as there is no reload timer between individual rockets.

Unfortunately this also renders the flairs cert useless as the only other lock on weapon, the HA AA rockets are also completely useless against fighters.

[Top Sgt]

honestly no I just got shot down by a mossie with A2A less than 5 mins ago

What it requires and why not many are using them now is actual Skill.

they are no longer fire and forget easy mode.. so everyone left them because most of the users of them were scrubs like most other stuff in game that get's abused.

You have to show some skill and earn your kill.. no longer just lock on from 800m away and fire and it's a easy kill.

[Syphus]

I've definitely still had A2A missiles shot at me, I definitely have used my flares.

And anyone in a fighter who gets hit by A2G missiles deserves to be shot down anyway.

[Bags]

That's good, lock on weaponry should be terrible.

[Sunrock]

, within 20 or so meters, have the fighter dead center of the reticle, and wait 5-10 seconds for the lock to turn green.

I never used A2A heat seeking missiles before. But are those numbers right or an exaggeration? 20 meters sounds very close. I would have bought 50 meters.

Compared to the heat seeking missiles that HA use on Vehicles that can go over 150 meters maybe over 200 meters. It's quite short with 20m.

[CrystalViolet]

honestly no I just got shot down by a mossie with A2A less than 5 mins ago

What it requires and why not many are using them now is actual Skill.

they are no longer fire and forget easy mode.. so everyone left them because most of the users of them were scrubs like most other stuff in game that get's abused.

You have to show some skill and earn your kill.. no longer just lock on from 800m away and fire and it's a easy kill.

TNot arguing that they weren't overpowered before, but making them less effective than the default gun does not mean they are now skill weapons . I have not been shot down by them once since the patch went into effect. I have made an effort to test how the new mechanic works, and concluded that in each case where I was able to achieve a lock and fire a single missile I could have easily destroyed the enemy plain with the main gun in the time it took for the lock on timers to run down.

Also, while they may have been over powered before, they did promote good positional flying and required skill to avoid. With the main guns now the only viable A2A weapon, dog fighting has degraded back into its previous state of circle flying and turreting which is the skill equivalent of tick tack toe.

[TestyVenom]

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with the OP. They are far from useless and are still decently powerful. It's not underpowered just because it takes more than 1 or 2 missiles to kill aircraft.

[CrystalViolet]

I never used A2A heat seeking missiles before. But are those numbers right or an exaggeration? 20 meters sounds very close. I would have bought 50 meters.

Compared to the heat seeking missiles that HA use on Vehicles that can go over 150 meters maybe over 200 meters. It's quite short with 20m.

The shoulder fired stuff has a much longer range than the current A2A stuff. I am estimating around 20 meters, though it's somewhat difficult to judge spacial relationships in this game.

[CrystalViolet]

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with the OP. They are far from useless and are still decently powerful. It's not underpowered just because it takes more than 1 or 2 missiles to kill aircraft.

I never made that point.

[Sunrock]

The shoulder fired stuff has a much longer range than the current A2A stuff. I am estimating around 20 meters, though it's somewhat difficult to judge spacial relationships in this game.

Push Left Alt + T and you get a distance meter on your screen. It will tell you how far something is to that you are aiming at. Works even on buildings.

[CrystalViolet]

Why I believe there may be a bug contributing to this is that there have been instances where I have been flying directly behind oblivious enemy fighters in a level flight chase with the reticle placed dead center on their cross section and the lock would fail to appear even after 10+ seconds. If anyone is interested in testing this out with me on a lower pop server, I can take a few videos with fraps to show what I'm talking about.

[CrystalViolet]

Push Left Alt + V and you get a distance meter on your screen. It will tell you how far something is to that you are aiming at. Works even on buildings.

Thanks, had no idea that feature was in the game.

[Sunrock]

Thanks, had no idea that feature was in the game.

OOPS sorry I remember wrong. Its Alt + T not V

[Top Sgt]

Op i am not attacking you personally just saying in general. they were easy mode before and now they still work but a pilot must work ALOT harder to get the kill with them now.. it's balanced.

if yours is taking tha tlong as you say to lock on and distances then something is bugged with your plane/system.

I still have a2a unlocked for my mossie and my scythe and it does not require the times or distance your explaining.. but it is alot harder than it was 2 weeks ago when it was so easy and cheezy.

most of us use A2G anyways and the front cannon is enough in a dogfight to out skill your opponent.

[typhaon]

C'mon... they absolutely are not balanced right now.

Not only is the range very reduced... you've got to shoot at least 4 (assuming the target remember to press G and launch a flare) of the friggin' things to take down a basic fighter.

If you can stay in range of someone long enough to shoot 4 A2A missles - you could've shot them down at least twice with guns.

Sure - they were OP, but they haven't been tuned... just effectively disabled for the moment.

[Top Sgt]

do you really want air combat where all everyone does is sit back and lock on A2A missiles at each other?

i don't know what to tell you.. they still work just require some piloting skill now.

they were nerfed alot for a reason.. it was super easy mode.

I'm done with the topic good luck

[CrystalViolet]

Not sure if this is a bug or the nerf was so heavy handed that it rendered them pointless, but the fact that nobody uses them anymore is evidence enough to suggest that there is a problem. What I'm seeing is that they now require you to be directly behind the enemy aircraft, within 20 or so meters, have the fighter dead center of the reticle, and wait 5-10 seconds for the lock to turn green. Since the nerf I've had more success dumb firing them at other aircraft, and I'm seeing more and more people using the A2G rockets in A2A combat as there is no reload timer between individual rockets.

Unfortunately this also renders the flairs cert useless as the only other lock on weapon, the HA AA rockets are also completely useless against fighters.

thanks for your input. At the end of the day, I think numbers will tell the story, and I hope the devs are looking at this very closely. Aircraft balance is very difficult and tends to be overlooked by a lot of games based purely on the fact that flying is not as intuitive as other more familiar areas of the game.

[Ipimpnoobs]

I just wanted to say I agree and disagree with the OP. For me its about utility. When I upgrade a weapon I always ask the question, "which is going to be more useful in the majority of battles?"

With that said, A2G just make more sense as most pilots will agree. A2A missiles are used for only killing aircraft but the game is won so to speak with boots on the ground.

Also, a factor i've not read yet is server populations. I imagine when the gates are open, the sky will be full of Aircraft thus making A2A more viable then now. Think about the xp grind currently.This could be another factor pilots are not using them.

Yesterday i went on 50+ kill streak with A2G's. From galaxy's, infantry men, liberators, NC tanks...and every Battle rank currently out there, you name it, they went down to these beautiful missles.

The poster that said if you are hit with A2G you don't deserve to fly. I would love to meet you on my server 1 v 1 but I highly recommend you bring a friend and I'll happily oblige any faction.

A2G can be quite nasty and I'd even say more lethal then pew pew LMG's. Most of the time you engage your not doing it from the front so by the time the enemy aircraft gets hit with the first rocket of the volley from behind, it is almost always bye bye birdie if they don't react very quickly.

I think we need more data to really see A2A effectiveness. Keep in mind it takes over 3 days of nonstop playing to get the auraxium needed for a 12.5k upgrade.

But, great post and awesome points.

Here's a dogfight hint: "Give a penny, get a penny" Most people are right handed. This means they have a natural tendency to turn aircraft to the left (towards there body) in flight under high pressure when using a keyboard and mouse. Use this to your advantage! See you in the sky's!

[Sunrock]

do you really want air combat where all everyone does is sit back and lock on A2A missiles at each other?

Well that is how a modern jet fighter simulator works. :p As real air to air combat today happens about 3km - 4km a part by the pilots just trying to lock on missiles.

[Top Sgt]

Well that is how a modern jet fighter simulator works. :p As real air to air combat today happens about 3km - 4km a part by the pilots just trying to lock on missiles.

true but that is real life not a video game.

in real life Suppressive fire get's the enemy to duck it's head and take cover well in fear of being shot.. in video games does it really matter? no people aren't afraid of dying in a video game so they rambo charge.

Can't compare real combat to a video game.

bottom line is A2A easy mode version was boring as hell for air vehicles because it was just a sit way out lock on fire and forget etc.

Right now the guys in the air you see are the real pilots etc.

[ParisTeta]

They are only good to kill off running aircrafts (without AB exploit) and with running, somewhat straigth line. But i get better with A2G everyday, they fullfiwll that too, are easy to use and i love headons from fighters with just guns usually they toast. Acutally i would consider them , gameplay wise, overpowered against ESF (slightly against Lib, ok at Gals).

A2A is very skilled based, like uff the rest option which perform alot better (Saron,A2G) maybe the combo work better with the Hailstorm, get in close unload clip, enemy runs, finish of with A2A missle.

But with the supernerf they lack dedication to something.
Tight Lock on Area but good range = Opener, Chase Down, Big Game Hunting (LIb/Gal) depending on damage.
Short Lock on, wide area, short lock on time = excellent finisher for CQC
Everything medium= All Purpose, Wingmen weapon.
Tight Lock On, Very Good Range, Good Damage, Long Lock on time = Big game Hunting.

You know, there are so many variation for an A2A Missle to be, without being overall overpowered but now, they are functional but not the best option.

The "balanced" Dogfight we have now is sometimes fun, but the truth is, slowing down is such a major factor, and we are fighters, speed should be the bigger factor, and gameplay wise it takes away from the flow. The next thing, those with the better mouse wins, i can`t keep up the turns like other do with the super high DPI mouse, and the sensitivty settings aren`t that functional right now.

[Saintlycow]

I like the changes. Makes using the a2a missiles slightly less dirty. I play vanu, so we were getting wrecked before they fixed our missiles. Then, I bought missiles when they were fixed, and voila, easy kills. So i started doing mg + missile. Now I might have to go with the a2g. Makes more sense with the super tight cone.

TLDR. Changes are good. Need more skill.

[Sunrock]

true but that is real life not a video game.

Well my point was just because you don't like a game mechanic does not mean no one else does. The argument that "this is a video game" does not really hold up because Microsoft Flight Sim is also a video game people play for fun, as mush as Donky Kong is. One just happens to be a sim and the other an arcade game.

[RSphil]

they are ok but i think you have to be far too close to use them. if the target in front of you stops you will fly in to him. make the range a little longer and they will be good.

also another thing iv noticed atm is alot of people flying into you to kill you or do massive amounts of damage. iv had it 3-4 times while flying libs and gals. even my reaver got rammed the other day. not happy

[Blue Sam]

they are ok but i think you have to be far too close to use them. if the target in front of you stops you will fly in to him. make the range a little longer and they will be good.

also another thing iv noticed atm is alot of people flying into you to kill you or do massive amounts of damage. iv had it 3-4 times while flying libs and gals. even my reaver got rammed the other day. not happy

The people ramming your Galaxy will hopefully stop soon, considering that it wont do anything to it.

[RSphil]

hope so. was in my lib yesterday and had a nice run then some arse decided he'd fly into me instead of shooting me down. really annoying :( still loving the game though. even though some of the buggs are strange :)

[Electrofreak]

Personally I think all lock-on weapons should require the lock to be maintained until the missile strikes its target.

[EVILPIG]

Firstly, they should not put lock on A2A missles in the game. Let aircraft actually dogfight.

Secondly, whoever said they now take skill.. LMFAO - PLEASE. I won't even go into that.

The fact is that it is either bugged or was nerfed and compared to how it was before it's pretty close to "useless". In the time you spend at close range keeping your targeter over the enemy aricraft, you could have ripped them a new one with your guns. Makes having such a weapon kind of pointless, so they need to figure out how to balance it out or just remove them. Again, I don't think there should be such a weapon. Sure, it makes sense to have lock on weaponry, but it's much more interesting to have it skill based and allow them to dogfight. Truth be told, if they went with the logical choice for futuristic weaponry, we'd be killing each other from miles away and would not need to get very close, ever. But, how fun would that be?

[Ipimpnoobs]

The great thing about the lock on system is you can out maneuver A2A's. I've done it many times by hitting the deck and using brush, trees and any basic non flat terrain. If the pilot pursues you, which they never do, you may have to pull out the ohh shit manuever that usually gets you killed.

Another thing, those hailstorm's are pieces of crap. Especially for 12.5k. The Saron stock is by far the best LMG. You can't beat the dmg output to both Air and ground targets. Plus, it doesn't have tracers which makes a bit difficult to adjust going over 300kph in thick engine smoke.

Anyhow, I wanted to show people my scythe video to give them an understanding of the A2G's currently.

302 Found

[cryosin]

There was a combination of two nerfs that severely hurt the A2A rockets.

Range + Reticle.

Range: The range was insanely long. You could lock-on from one side of zurvan to the adjacent outpost on the other side. That was too far.

Reticle: You didn't really need the aircraft to be inside your reticle, just in your field of view. This was way too easy.


I think the range needed a nerf, but right now its way too drastic. It's much easier to just fly behind someone and shotgun spam the A2G rockets. That's basically a shotgun easy mode kill, and more effective than the A2A.

The Reticle change was much needed. It should require some kind of aiming to lock-on and maintain a lock. It's also much more exciting trying to obtain and hold that lock on.

So that's why A2A sucks right now. The range is low and people aren't used to aiming. Although even with good aim, i'd rather use A2G right now.

[xSquirtle]

This game does not need A2A missiles. Its a skill-less option that only ruins fights from a standby player.

[Eyeklops]

I did not pick up the A2A missiles until after the nerf but was able to shoot down ESF's with them on a regular basis. I do agree the skill level for the weapon is pretty high ATM as a good pilot with an upgraded afterburner can easily out-range the missiles and/or break the lock.

As soon as I bought the Scythe A2G rockets I quit using the A2A. The TTK for the A2G is a fraction of the A2A TTK and is super OP ATM. They instagib ESF's with no warning, and a dozen nosegun rounds + 14 Rockets pops a Liberator. This is totally bassackwards. The A2A missile should have the fastest TTK against air, not the A2G.

[CrystalViolet]

I agree that the reticle change was necessary but reducing the range was a bad idea. Honestly what I think needs to happen is a complete rethinking of the mechanic.

Here are my thoughts.

Lock on missiles should have their range increased back to a longer distance and speeds should be increased. The big change should be that missiles will primarily do AOE damage with a gradient of damage degradation expanding out from the center of the explosion, and detonate when they reach their closest calculated proximity to the target. Additionally, missile tracking should degrade as their proximity to the target increases. This would mean that aircraft would have the ability to avoid taking massive damage by manuvering their aircraft to the edge of the AOE radius. Idealy, this would add an element of skill to the timing of both firing the missiles and avoiding them.