We need more ammo! (or bring back looting) [Archive]

TerminatorUK

2012-09-19, 03:08 AM

I'm not sure if it's just me feeling this or does everyone get the feeling that ammo supplies generally are too low?

Some examples and suggestions below:

- Infantry primary weapon Ammo - somewhat lacking - may need to consider a 50% increase
- Heavy Assault - should have an additional 4 missiles in reserve
- Secondary Vehicle Gunners - the 250 bullet ammo reserve should be x2-x3 higher
- Semi-Auto sniper rifles - use far more ammo than their bolt-action cousin and need x2 the ammo pool

Currently it is a rarity to find ammo in the field (especially without any looting) which isn't a lot of fun if you are playing solo.

With the lack of being able to fill a vehicle trunk with infantry ammo or for infantry to carry vehicle ammo from an AMS (Galaxy) vehicles cannot reload in the field either.

Conq

2012-09-19, 03:16 AM

- Infantry primary weapon Ammo - somewhat lacking - may need to consider a 50% increase
- Heavy Assault - should have an additional 4 missiles in reserve

Both of those exist as certs, they're just locked atm. Check in Suit Mods on HA and in Ammunition on weapons.

Vehicles are fine though. I like kiting ammoless tanks around in my Sunderer. Get away you dependents, I'm not Obama! :)

Timealude

2012-09-19, 03:21 AM

It sounds like your playing with bad engs alot. If you ask them for ammo and they dont place it down then they arent very good at that class.

Raka Maru

2012-09-19, 03:33 AM

It sounds like your playing with bad engs alot. If you ask them for ammo and they dont place it down then they arent very good at that class.

Some engies are explosive experts, not supply.

WillR

2012-09-19, 03:40 AM

Hope there is some cert to loot ammo from corpse ...

bullet

2012-09-19, 03:56 AM

I'll agree with the OP. I usually had different load outs in PS1 for different situations. If I was going into the field, I'd bring some extra Lancer ammo because of those damn tanks, but I can't really do that here, I'm just stuck with what I've got. :(

SpottyGekko

2012-09-19, 04:10 AM

Some engies are explosive experts, not supply.

My understanding is that any engineer can drop ammo by selecting his ACE tool and pressing the "B" key, regardless of what's in his Utility slot.

Of course, nobody will currently know this unless they read the forums regularly or are told by someone else in game. The functionality is not mentioned anywhere in the game interface.

Helwyr

2012-09-19, 04:23 AM

I agree more ammo and more means of resupply like corpse looting. Having Infantry be so dependent on Engineers and Medics for their basic functionality just doesn't play well outside of organized squads.

I know the devs don't really want us using other factions weapons. But even if it's just an ammo box that resupplies your current loadout that drops when a corpse despawns that would be a big improvement.

ringring

2012-09-19, 05:29 AM

Some engies are explosive experts, not supply.

every eng is supply .... tell them to bring the turret up as if they were going to deploy it and then press B ... they can now deploy ammo even if they're carrying explosives.

The devs want ammo resupply to be a a basic skill and be available no matter what

**edit, just seen spotty gekko's post above.

Ghost Runner

2012-09-19, 06:24 AM

No thats a bad Idea all 3 groups use different ammo all together

VS user energy cells not going to work in any gun but a VS gun

TR use 20 century style bullets not going to fit into a NC Gause rifle that uses railgun Tech.

And you can't fire NC magnetically propelled slugs from a rifle designed to use bullet cartridges it will totally kill the lore.

Dagron

2012-09-19, 08:14 AM

Of course, nobody will currently know this unless they read the forums regularly or are told by someone else in game. The functionality is not mentioned anywhere in the game interface.

... tell them to bring the turret up as if they were going to deploy it and then press B ... they can now deploy ammo even if they're carrying explosives.

Spreading the word helps a lot.
Knowing is half the battle!

Raka Maru

2012-09-19, 08:35 AM

Wow, thanks for the dropping ammo tip. I read the forums every day but missed this. :)

EvilNinjadude

2012-09-19, 10:29 AM

Whooo! HAAAAAX! gotta love hax.

Hosp

2012-09-19, 10:42 AM

To not break lore looting would be looting of the enemy weapons and his ammo reserve, not looting just his ammo to put into your gun.

Helwyr

2012-09-19, 04:26 PM

To not break lore looting would be looting of the enemy weapons and his ammo reserve, not looting just his ammo to put into your gun.

That would be my preference, but if we can't have that I'll take being able to resupply my own weapons over not having any looting at all.

GuyFawkes

2012-09-19, 06:33 PM

I was shocked to buy a magrider, ran out of ammo, went back to the base , couldnt resupply. I yelled 'how do i refil my mag ammo'' to be replied with ''you can't''
Bemused, I took this as a balance thing or something and i must spend another 300 whatever resource and get a new magrider. I was having a good session against other tanks and infantry, but whenever reavers or any air turned up they would decimate my armor in milliseconds with me having little chance to fire back . New char, no certs unlocked yet.
Later on I was totally bemused to find the flight pads on the bio labs all had re-arm icons on them for the air craft that were a royal pain to all ground based fighting, a real kick in the teeth.

bullet

2012-09-19, 07:55 PM

Toppopia

2012-09-19, 09:27 PM

I came up with an idea ages ago about an ammo converter, its probably outdated but the general idea is the same, you equip a tool and you interact with the body. (Like a medic or engie tool) and you slowly get ammo.
http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=41911&highlight=ammo

CutterJohn

2012-09-20, 12:05 AM

They should just combine the ammo box stuff with the turret. Makes it much easier to see.

Also, I wouldn't say no to a generic ammo pouch drop from dead troops. Gives a clips worth of ammo for each weapon, and one rocket. Possibly as a cert LA and Infils can get that enables the drop when they kill someone.. Those two are the most in need of field resupply options, since played correctly they are out of reach of medics and engies.

brighthand

2012-09-20, 12:31 AM

Both of those exist as certs, they're just locked atm. Check in Suit Mods on HA and in Ammunition on weapons.

Vehicles are fine though. I like kiting ammoless tanks around in my Sunderer. Get away you dependents, I'm not Obama! :)

^LOL

-now to my point: I like the low ammo, as it creates a feeling that I need to survive and ration my shots, plus it requires me to stick with my teammates who can hand out ammo.

I think we should keep the ammo low, but bring in looting. I love having to survive behind enemy lines after an unsuccesful raid and I'm the only one left. It would be nice to take more ammor from dead bodies as I make my way back to friendly territories.

Ghost Runner

2012-09-20, 12:52 AM

Well in this case I hope you all listen if you can pick up ammo off your dead enemy it dumbs down the strategy in the game, makes the support role for engineers pointless and makes game play seem less intelligent. There is more then enough ways to get resupplied in this game to not need generic ammo on the troops.-Opinion on ammo pickups

Weapon swaps would work with out breaking lore though or making the support role pointless because by choosing to swap your weapon allied engineers can no longer give you ammo but now you could technically resupply at enemy weapon councils?-elaborating on the other Idea

Sunrock

2012-09-20, 01:36 AM

I see no problem with engineers resupplying ammo. However I believe the radios the ammo pack gives ammo to people might be to small and you need to stand close to it for too long before it start to give you anything. Sunderers resupplying vehicles works well too.

Raka Maru

2012-09-20, 03:12 AM

I think after they balance the faction weapons, they should bring back looting. Ot a gadget that converts dead soldier backpacks (if they drop backpacks) into nanos that reform into your ammo.

Helwyr

2012-09-20, 03:22 AM

Also, I wouldn't say no to a generic ammo pouch drop from dead troops. Gives a clips worth of ammo for each weapon, and one rocket. Possibly as a cert LA and Infils can get that enables the drop when they kill someone.. Those two are the most in need of field resupply options, since played correctly they are out of reach of medics and engies.

This at a minimum would satisfy me ammo wise, as LA and Infiltrator are the sort of classes I'm most likely to play in the live game. Even though those two classes are the most in need of this I still think it should apply to all Infantry.

As I've said many times here and on the beta forums the dependence on Medics and Engineers for other infantry classes basic functionality (health and ammo) does not work outside of organized squads. This game can't just a cater to organized squad/outfit players, I don't believe they were the majority of the player base in PS1, that was a subscription game, PS2 is F2P.

Most Engineers won't even notice let alone care that they are no longer the principle providers of Ammo. I bet a few will actually be glad.

Medics will still be valuable if all Infantry can slowly heal up between fights. Revive alone makes them essential for squad play, and on top of that they have fast healing, PBAOE heals, heal and revive grenades. Medics keep others healed and alive during a fight, they're not defined by healing between fights.

Sunrock

2012-09-20, 03:54 AM

As I've said many times here and on the beta forums the dependence on Medics and Engineers for other infantry classes basic functionality (health and ammo) does not work outside of organized squads. This game can't just a cater to organized squad/outfit players, I don't believe they were the majority of the player base in PS1, that was a subscription game, PS2 is F2P.

You are wrong. Medics and Engineers does work for those that play outside of organized squads. It just works better with organized squads. Besides you can always refill your ammo at a "class changing station" or what they are called and every base ever at least 2 locations of those.

This is just some n00b QQ'ing BS IMO.

Dreadbelch

2012-09-20, 04:21 AM

Engy/Medic Pro Tip: Keep an eye out for the small ammo/cross icon floating over people's heads which indicates they're in need of your services. Also, you can target people and hold down the "spot" key and choose the "Hey bro, I got your ammo over here" voice command.

Works the other way too. You can target an engy or medic and bring up that menu and you'll shout at them to drop ammo or heal you. No typing required.

TNTNate

2012-09-20, 04:30 AM

I'd personally vote to give LA and Infils a tool that allows for a conversation of enemy equipment to ammo, as suggested above. This wouldn't kill lore, as nanites are what EVERYTHING is made of, even people, arguably. Each looted corpse that the LA/Infil kills/assists in killing give the play half a clip for all weapons. This could be improved to allow a full clip per looted kill. It should be a mid-tier cert, I'd ballpark at 75-100 points, as it essentially allows for the LA/Infil in question is be freed from relying on allies for help. While allies are certainly more efficient, as they don't require you to take up space in your inventory on their account, this tool would allow a strictly LA or Infil squad to operate behind enemy lines (oh the C4 madness that would ensue) effectively as far as raiding and intelligence gathering go. Note that this tool would NOT allow for grenades, C4, or mines to be looted, as those require resources to make, and we wouldn't want to make those classes too OP. Just my thoughts.

Helwyr

2012-09-20, 05:03 AM

You are wrong. Medics and Engineers does work for those that play outside of organized squads. It just works better with organized squads. Besides you can always refill your ammo at a "class changing station" or what they are called and every base ever at least 2 locations of those.

This is just some n00b QQ'ing BS IMO.

I'm not wrong, I've observed it first hand over and over, there are threads all over the place in the beta forums that touch on this issue, you can watch recorded streams of people getting all mad because no engineers are dropping him ammo. It doesn't work well and it's just not necessary. As such there's no point in keeping it this way.

Your juvenile insults don't change facts either.

Ghost Runner

2012-09-20, 06:30 AM

JesNC

2012-09-20, 07:44 AM

TerminatorUK

2012-09-20, 12:46 PM

Interesting points here - I reakly hope some enemy weapin looting geta implemented at some point.

If your loan wolfing, it makes a continued assault fairly difficult.

No one has touched on reloads for vehicles in thw field however - I think it would be useful if vehicle ammo could be cartied from a Galaxy (or Sunderer soon) or there was a Lodestar-type rearming mod for them

Rummy

2012-09-20, 01:46 PM

Why not just be able to pick up ammo from dead teammates?

Raka Maru

2012-09-20, 01:56 PM

You really can't blame the game for experiencing bad teamplay.

Ammo, like health, should be a resource that needs to be monitored and used carefully by the player.

I feel Running around collecting power-ups from dead enemies just doesn't belong in this game.

The ammo capacity, bandoleers, and such are downright stingy. Engies can't carry/deploy enough mines to even be useful except for maybe one encounter. No vehicle trunks to store things in, and no looting, no lodestar. I have to mark an ammo point when I'm in my lightning because I run out of shells regularly. If you are behind enemy lines, you can't hack their terminals.

Maybe they will fix this or the quick TTK mentality seems to mean you will die and respawn again with fresh ammo. Right now, if you survive a fight alone behind enemy lines, you have to run very far because you can't hack a vehicle or vehicle terminal, the maps are huge so you have to go on foot with no ammo and 1 health bar, then you decide that you're better off with /suicide and grab another vehicle. Something wrong with this picture?

What's wrong with killing an enemy soldier even with your knife and resupplying with nanos for your ammo or grab his health pack?

Helwyr

2012-09-20, 02:18 PM

Well if we did it your way Helwyr there would be no need for logistics in PS2 and if thats the case then why not have unlimited ammo because that is essentially what you are asking for. Think about it would the experience be as much fun if you never had to worry if you have enough ammo? the answer is no.

I'm not asking for unlimited ammo, I'm asking for ammo supply to come from multiple sources, and yes maybe up the amount carried a bit.

Logistical considerations should apply most strongly to Vehicles, most certainly not behind enemy lines type Infantry such as the LA and Infiltrator. Right now it seems the opposite. ESFs are the most extreme example, they're an advanced vehicle that is good against everything not hiding indoors, are operated solo, can easily and conveniently resupply and repair without the aid of any other player. If you want more logistical considerations in the game apply it to things like that not Infantry.

Timealude

2012-09-20, 05:45 PM

The ammo capacity, bandoleers, and such are downright stingy. Engies can't carry/deploy enough mines to even be useful except for maybe one encounter. No vehicle trunks to store things in, and no looting, no lodestar. I have to mark an ammo point when I'm in my lightning because I run out of shells regularly. If you are behind enemy lines, you can't hack their terminals.

Maybe they will fix this or the quick TTK mentality seems to mean you will die and respawn again with fresh ammo. Right now, if you survive a fight alone behind enemy lines, you have to run very far because you can't hack a vehicle or vehicle terminal, the maps are huge so you have to go on foot with no ammo and 1 health bar, then you decide that you're better off with /suicide and grab another vehicle. Something wrong with this picture?

What's wrong with killing an enemy soldier even with your knife and resupplying with nanos for your ammo or grab his health pack?

What would be the point of squads then? You would just be able to lone wolf all day long. PS has always been a team oriented game and IMO you should be at a disadvantage if you dont play as a team.

JesNC

2012-09-20, 06:30 PM

*snip*

What's wrong with killing an enemy soldier even with your knife and resupplying with nanos for your ammo or grab his health pack?

It feels like some kind of super mario/hack'n'slash move to me. That's wrong.

I'm with you on Engineer AV mines (which need a LOT of work) and vehicle trunks.

For everything else there are ammo packs and Sunderers.

Sunrock

2012-09-20, 06:32 PM

I'm not wrong, I've observed it first hand over and over, there are threads all over the place in the beta forums that touch on this issue, you can watch recorded streams of people getting all mad because no engineers are dropping him ammo. It doesn't work well and it's just not necessary. As such there's no point in keeping it this way.

Your juvenile insults don't change facts either.

How come I can manage without it then? I have played allot of "lone wolf" in this game and if I can every one can.

Just there is allot of noob BS QQ'ing going on but if you played any online game you will also know that the majority of posters on official forums are noobs that write allot of BS because they don't understand how to play.

Helwyr

2012-09-20, 07:21 PM

Just there is allot of noob BS QQ'ing going on but if you played any online game you will also know that the majority of posters on official forums are noobs that write allot of BS because they don't understand how to play.

I'll tell you what I know... That on internet forums you get people that aren't really able to make good arguments to back their opinions, so instead they rely on generalized anecdotal evidence of almost no value and ad hominem attacks that are often so childish that it feels like your being called names by a 6 year old.

Raka Maru

2012-09-20, 07:34 PM

What would be the point of squads then? You would just be able to lone wolf all day long. PS has always been a team oriented game and IMO you should be at a disadvantage if you dont play as a team.

Read my post again. I said if you are the last standing, you are forced to do /suicide, that means low health, no ammo, no engies to hand out goodies, no medics with band aids. Do play infiltraitor a lot sot it does happen a lot to me even when my squad dies.

Raka Maru

2012-09-20, 07:39 PM

It feels like some kind of super mario/hack'n'slash move to me. That's wrong.

I'm with you on Engineer AV mines (which need a LOT of work) and vehicle trunks.

For everything else there are ammo packs and Sunderers.

It was just an example. I find myself out of ammo after being behind enemy lines a lot. This will hopefully get fixed when hacking certs are available.

Backpacks don't drop like in PS1, so no med kits to be found. Even dead teammates packs used to be looted for general ammo. Was just trying to think of some justifiable lore when all you have left is 1 hit point and your knife and an unwary enemy soldier.

Sunrock

2012-09-20, 07:41 PM

I'll tell you what I know... That on internet forums you get people that aren't really able to make good arguments to back their opinions, so instead they rely on generalized anecdotal evidence of almost no value and ad hominem attacks that are often so childish that it feels like your being called names by a 6 year old.

Bla bla bla bla. :rolleyes:

So you're saying I dreamed my experienced in game? You're calling me a lier? Well F U 2. Besides you do the same thing just in a more manipulating way instead of cutting all the BS and tell the truth.

Helwyr

2012-09-20, 07:50 PM

Backpacks don't drop like in PS1, so no med kits to be found. Even dead teammates packs used to be looted for general ammo. Was just trying to think of some justifiable lore when all you have left is 1 hit point and your knife and an unwary enemy soldier.

When it comes to the lore for Planetside we're dealing with a very futuristic fantasy setting so all references to how things work in the real current world are secondary to gameplay considerations anyway. That said, part of Planetside lore is that they construct everything from nanites, so it's not much of a stretch of the imagination that infantry have tools on them to convert other Factions ammo to that of their own by manipulating the nanites.

Raka Maru

2012-09-20, 08:03 PM

When it comes to the lore for Planetside we're dealing with a very futuristic fantasy setting so all references to how things work in the real current world are secondary to gameplay considerations anyway. That said, part of Planetside lore is that they construct everything from nanites, so it's not much of a stretch of the imagination that infantry have tools on them to convert other Factions ammo to that of their own by manipulating the nanites.

And I agree, thus the recycler tool should be invented. Would have to get soldiers to drop backpacks now since the respawn time is so fast and the bodies disappear. This also would add to the classic PS1 feeling.

Helwyr

2012-09-20, 08:50 PM

And I agree, thus the recycler tool should be invented. Would have to get soldiers to drop backpacks now since the respawn time is so fast and the bodies disappear. This also would add to the classic PS1 feeling.

Which kind of brings me back to what was said earlier, that when corpses vanish they should just leave behind an ammo box, which in turn vanishes after one use or a set period of time.. perhaps a minute. There's no need to have SOE actually make some certable tool, it should just be part of game mechanics for infantry by default. The 'recycler tool' would exist only in terms of lore.

Timealude

2012-09-21, 01:59 AM

Read my post again. I said if you are the last standing, you are forced to do /suicide, that means low health, no ammo, no engies to hand out goodies, no medics with band aids. Do play infiltraitor a lot sot it does happen a lot to me even when my squad dies.

But as an infiltrator arent you suppose to play alone or at least with other infiltrators (coming with the new patch for sabotage)? But you can also see my point that it would making run and gun rambo style alot easier to pull off instead of being punished for it.

Raka Maru

2012-09-21, 02:18 AM

Which kind of brings me back to what was said earlier, that when corpses vanish they should just leave behind an ammo box, which in turn vanishes after one use or a set period of time.. perhaps a minute. There's no need to have SOE actually make some certable tool, it should just be part of game mechanics for infantry by default. The 'recycler tool' would exist only in terms of lore.

I was thinking the recycler would pull out an amount of nanos depending on what the soldier was carrying, thus having an amount to spend on reconstructing ammo/med kit/other ordinance. Not something complex, but a quick menu and maybe hotkeys.

But your right too, it can just drop a simple ammo/med kit pack in the field. Or just simply resupply you.

Raka Maru

2012-09-21, 02:22 AM

But as an infiltrator arent you suppose to play alone or at least with other infiltrators (coming with the new patch for sabotage)? But you can also see my point that it would making run and gun rambo style alot easier to pull off instead of being punished for it.

For my infiltrator, this discussion may now be moot because of the patch for terminal hacking. Looting/resupplying from dead soldier backpacks may still be nice.

Usually, I play with just other infiltrators, but there are random engies/medics around, but everyone dies and I'm left alone way behind the lines.