Thoughts on new S-AMS

[Crator]

Well, I played for a bit tonight and found the flow of battle is much more natural now. I'm really liking the change here with the new ground S-AMS!

[EvilNinjadude]

I heard they tweaked the resource system...

Any thoughts on how the new costs for Sundy and Gally feel?

[Timealude]

I heard they tweaked the resource system...

Any thoughts on how the new costs for Sundy and Gally feel?

for me the sundy price seems a bit high

[ThGlump]

Its perfect. Return of the AMS. Maybe even too strong with that endurance and ability to transport whole squad. There will be nerfs. At least i expect return of noAMS zone around deployed AMS like in ps1. They can take too much damage to allow them stack too close together.

[Conq]

for me the sundy price seems a bit high

Yeah, think I'll go ahead and rebind my grenade key. I'll never afford them now.

[capiqu]

New changes are great, love the sundy as AMS and like the new jump towers on to the Bio-labs landing pads. Oh and the the new warp gate set up too. Nice patch.

[bullet]

Yea, the return of the AMS was great. There are actually front lines now and fights last much, much longer than before, but we do need some limitations on these things. Following along with the zerg tonight, we had like 5+ AMS's crowded around the out-posts.

The new cost of the sundy seems fine to me. I was able to keep my sundy long enough tonight that by the time I needed to get another I had already made back most of the resources. We don't want these things to be so cheap that they are constantly spammed and flooding the bases. They need to be placed tactically and supported as they are the fights life line.

[Conq]

A Zephyr took my bus out in one pass. I think deployment should add shielding or at the very least, we should be able to cert into roof armor like the tanks.

[Arovien]

The change to put the MS features was absolutely proper. The galaxy was just way too versatile. Both vehicles have their place atm.

One major issue tho. The Sundy is not stable, leading to it being tipped over by either the smallest bump or traffic accidents. Apparently, flashes and lightnings can drive under a Sundy unharmed. Unfortunately, that leads to the Sundy likely tripping, killing all inside of it. With ground movement being so clustered in certain areas, this is a serious issue that leads to extremely impacting accidents and trolls.

Also, the 450 alloys (or w/e the yellow one is called) cost is fine. Seems high on paper but not actually the case in-game.

[Ipimpnoobs]

I actually think the cost is not high enough. You really accumulate resources quickly. Also, thinking about the future... How will the xp implant effect this as well?

I love how the changes force the fight on the ground. The vehicle timers are not long enough as well. Also, thinking about the future... How will certification points attributed to spawn speed, effect this?

Lastly, cert points seem to be at a sweet spot in regards to accumulation speed.

Great changes and looking forward to the next update.

[KamiGaijin]

I like it. Instead of Gal spam, we have Sundy spam. Witch works out fine because you can kill a Sundy, unlike the Gals, who can survive an Deployed Prowler pumping 50 AP rounds into it in about 30s.

[ringring]

I like it too.

I think the gal was the wrong direction.... it was too obvious so to compensate the devs had to make it tougher and tougher.

The MS Sundy is fine in itself and it's not too tough.

If survivability is an issue which I think it will be, then add a cloak.

[Crator]

Hope they really think about making separate vehicles again. What the game should have is:

-AMS with cloak (Much less armor then a Sundy and no guns)
-Sundy with troop transport
-Loadstar (air vehicle) with ability to transport small to medium vehicles and repair/rearm functions when deployed on ground.

[FINALCUT]

Love it. Saw a fight in the middle of the Desert last night,no where near any base. A real fight with two factions having a Sundy set up about 500 meters apart and people spawning and running to the fight.

That lasted a long time and felt more like a front line action instead of the constant base attack / defend stuff we saw with Gal spawns. Awesome job Devs. Going in the right direction.

[bullet]

One major issue tho. The Sundy is not stable, leading to it being tipped over by either the smallest bump or traffic accidents. Apparently, flashes and lightnings can drive under a Sundy unharmed. Unfortunately, that leads to the Sundy likely tripping, killing all inside of it. With ground movement being so clustered in certain areas, this is a serious issue that leads to extremely impacting accidents and trolls.

Yeah, about that. At one out-post we were zerging, some griefing dick head started pushing my Sundy towards the edge of the map trying to push it off. I caught up with and was able to save it, but really? Can we get a little more weight to these things?

[NewSith]

And now everyone is saying that the g-ams should be removed. And it will be removed, because of the whining.


This is mostly FAO Figgy.

[Crator]

I don't think the GAL spawn ability should be removed. It should require teamwork to enable the spawn point though.

Hacker Cert: Galaxy air pad clamps (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=48131)

[bullet]

I don't know if that cert value for the G-AMS is final but it costs 500 I believe. That has to be someone pretty dedicated to support to drop that many certs on it.

[NewSith]

I don't know if that cert value for the G-AMS is final but it costs 500 I believe. That has to be someone pretty dedicated to support to drop that many certs on it.

After I spend my certs on the laser dot and reflex, I'm going in for it.

[HellsPanda]

500 points sound very cheap for a dedicated galaxy cert that allows tactical positioning of a spawn point to a degree the bus drives can Only dram about

[Figment]

And now everyone is saying that the g-ams should be removed. And it will be removed, because of the whining.


This is mostly FAO Figgy.

Heh, whining? A lot of the new people now for the first time seem to experience true base sieges and field battles, hectic fights over territory. It doesn't mean the Gal spawnpoint has to disappear completely though and I never said it should (!). It did need to be restricted a bit because it avoided defenses too easily and made zergs impossible to deal with by small groups. This version is far easier to deal with as many have noted already.

Noticed people on PS2 forums were thrilled by the effects of the change. Still afraid of pure Sundy transport role being competed out. So still prefer a pure ams.

Galaxy spawning should IMO be limited to squads (at most platoon) rally point. That would interfere least with the hot drop role and avoids AMS obsoletion. That would make them have their own niche without bringing the entire empire.

Role definition is important, otherwise in half a year we are back where we started.

[Galron]

I would like to give my feedback for the AMS spawning but im having a slight problem. NO ONE fucking uses it much less deploys it where I can actually spawn from it. Before I always had plenty of gal spawn points.

[bullet]

I would like to give my feedback for the AMS spawning but im having a slight problem. NO ONE fucking uses it much less deploys it where I can actually spawn from it. Before I always had plenty of gal spawn points.

So cert it and use it, its only 5 cert points. There is a lack of them because people who came into the game don't realize how useful the AMS was. They always just assumed it was a bad idea because it was from PS1 and all the vets wanted it. We need to smack them and show them that everything from PS1 wasn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

[EVILPIG]

It just reinforces my opinion that this game absolutely does not need a cloaked spawn point.

[Baneblade]

What it needs are FOBs.

[ThGlump]

I don't know if that cert value for the G-AMS is final but it costs 500 I believe. That has to be someone pretty dedicated to support to drop that many certs on it.

There is cert for carrying one more medkit that cost nearly 5000 certs. 500 for GAMS is nothing.

[NewSith]

Galaxy spawning should IMO be limited to squads (at most platoon) rally point. That would interfere least with the hot drop role and avoids AMS obsoletion. That would make them have their own niche without bringing the entire empire.

If I want ninja squad action I would rather bring a Sunderer. G-AMS is exactly the zerg type of spawnpoint.

That's actually the point you were making in a thread not so distant.


EDIT: Also 10/500... I'm after a good start.

[bullet]

I've been pumping points into the Basilisk guns for the sundy hoping they provide more protection than they do right now. Im up to the second cert of increased ammo capacity. The other guns for the sundy in the store don't seem that appealing when trying to deal with air/veh and infantry.

[SixShooter]

I really like that both Gal and BangBus can be used. I really think that the cert cost should be higher though at least for the Sundy, as I understand it's already going to be way high for the Gal.

[Malorn]

Its working great. It doesn't need a cloak. ITs better without it to be honest. The fights are more straightforward.

[Captain1nsaneo]

The SAMuS is fantastic. Much better ground fights now. Just need infils in the game along with MAX abilities and we'll get a much better picture on how the final game will playout.

As for cost changes...

http://imageshack.us/a/img18/6783/a02i.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/a02i.png/)

This joke is just in bad taste.

[Timealude]

The SAMuS is fantastic. Much better ground fights now. Just need infils in the game along with MAX abilities and we'll get a much better picture on how the final game will playout.

As for cost changes...

http://imageshack.us/a/img18/6783/a02i.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/a02i.png/)

This joke is just in bad taste.

I actually had my first taste of an infy attack today on metis.....all i can say is. There will be a big need for infys now just because of how much of a set back it is when all your turrets and terminals become hacked.

Also...ya those prices need to get lowered....

[Galron]

lol 900 in game hours to unlock a smoke, no thanks.

[Malorn]

Except when Sp00ky is driving the bus the wrong way.:lol:
How does he not know how to get to Vanu Archives from Snake Ravine...srsly...even with a big waypoint.

[ringring]

It's great so far ....we really need to see how ground battles pan out with more people having more certs.

Specifically, A2G rockets and AA max.

One good thing about the territory in the South erast is that there are lots of rocks to hide your sundy behind.

[Canaris]

said it over on the offical forums, new AMS is fantastic for combat flow, it works really well :thumbsup:

So much so if Galaxy spawn went the way of the dinosaur I wouldn't shed a tear.

[Figment]

If I want ninja squad action I would rather bring a Sunderer. G-AMS is exactly the zerg type of spawnpoint.

That's actually the point you were making in a thread not so distant.


EDIT: Also 10/500... I'm after a good start.

Yes, it was I've stated that's the only thing it was good for as a behind frontline zerg spawnpoint when there's more than enough people to guard it.

But I suppose I didn't communicate well that was not a flattering assessment, as that mainly showed both its massive limitations (pun intended) and forming of overpowered situations. Which I'll remind you, I already denoted would happen well over a year ago now: too much health in the sky and too powerful to deal with on the ground by a small team, or too easy to kill by a zerg. :/ That's all it was and would be used for, aside from overpowering small teams in outposts, of course. The Galaxy was/is not, by even the wildest stretch, a good universal spawnpoint design.

However, as the main role of the Galaxy is transporting people to and hot dropping people in, having it as a personal rally point would allow you to quickly regroup and go in again and wouldn't even require as many hitpoints as it'd be on the move more and often a discardable unit (like the PS1 Gal). That would make Galaxy play more dynamic than it was during Beta so far. If you'd land and deploy it (or them, in case of a platoon), you could still get your squad up and running. Hell, allow others to matrix to it as well, as long as they've been there in person. In that scenario it's not as blunt an instrument anymore and can be dealt with more easily by smaller groups, as not the entire zerg would be spawning there, just a squad: take out one Gal if two had landed and you take care of one squad's spawnpoint, then those guys become reliable on the medics of the other team, for instance.



What I also said in that thread, was that both small teams AND zerg can use a ground based AMS (opposed to some people's claims) and that it would establish front lines where you inch your way into the enemy's base have to use more strategy than frontal assault, that they would be used to support sieges, field battles and defend positions alike. Which is exactly what they're being used for and exactly what is happening right now and exactly what players had been looking for. Similarly, I also said they would be easier to take out by smaller groups of players, due to the lower hitpoints. So please, extend some credit where it's due. ;p

What I don't quite get though, is that the Sundy AMS has some of the same basic design flaws the original Mk.1 AMS had: just one terminal on the rear and there not being ample protection for the spawnee, who's standing still for a second completely in the open in a predictable location. With a one second TTK... Eh. The cloak field wasn't just there to hide the spawnpoint. It was there to give the spawnee a fighting chance too. Etc.

Beyond that, I've already heard a number of complaints I've warned months and months ago about: visual recognition of type. :/ AMS Mk.3 thread has pretty much all the potential Sundy/AMS flaws listed and many of these have not been adressed. Things like no interference radius and I've seen pictures of people parking them inside without deconstruction ensueing. Not quite details, but rather important coding elements to make it succeed fully. (But hey, I've driven ATVs with a 20mm machine gun into generator rooms too...)

Hence I'd still be in favour of a non-Sundy, actual AMS.

[Shogun]

the new sunderer ams is great!

but it needs some changes.
first, make it more of a sidegrade. ams functionality should reduce passanger slots or remove guns.

second, it desperately needs visual indicators what is equipped!

soldiers need to see if they are running up to a ams sundy or a vanilla sundy! it totally sucks to run through enemy fire to get ammo from a sundy just to find out it has no ams equipped and you have to run back still unarmed.

also the vehicle repair and ammo dispensers need visual indication as well!
so either make the models modular and the passanger cabin interchangable, or take the easy route and add icons over a sunderer at least for friendlies.

[TerminatorUK]

I really like the Sunderer taking the AMS role - it has really created some memorable battles and creates a stable front line again which has enchanced gameplay significantly.

[Darkvenom]

the new sunderer ams is great!

but it needs some changes.
first, make it more of a sidegrade. ams functionality should reduce passanger slots or remove guns.

second, it desperately needs visual indicators what is equipped!

soldiers need to see if they are running up to a ams sundy or a vanilla sundy! it totally sucks to run through enemy fire to get ammo from a sundy just to find out it has no ams equipped and you have to run back still unarmed.

also the vehicle repair and ammo dispensers need visual indication as well!
so either make the models modular and the passanger cabin interchangable, or take the easy route and add icons over a sunderer at least for friendlies.

agree on all...Sundy AMS has changed the game so much already..lovin the change, but it will still need further tweaking for sure. If they want to put something on the Galaxy then they should add a Lodestar cert to it until they give us a Lodestar. :)

[Ghost Runner]

Thoughts;
it should be flimsy easy to kill check
should be easily camped by a sniper if not hidden well or placed tactically Check

I think it is working great.

[Traak]

How do you get into beta? Do I have to actually be ten years on Plantside first, not only nine years?

[ringring]

How do you get into beta? Do I have to actually be ten years on Plantside first, not only nine years?

Sign up for beta on planetside2.com using your normal station name. You won't automatically get into beta by just doing that - the backend script to do that has already been run but I believe if you email [email protected] and explain Brad will let you in.

If you had previously signed up and didn't receive an email accepting you in, go to www.planetside2.com/download to download the client.

The beta forums are at http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php and if you can by change log onto there it mean you already have access to the beta.

[Qwan]

Im thinking that the sundy AMS is working pretty well. I mean if the object of the game is to get people to the fight, so that they can have fun while playing the game is the over all target then this is the thing thats going to do it. I still think they should give a area restriction like with the old AMS, and with that a small cloak shield to prevent spawn kills.

I think that the cert price and the resource price is just right. One thing about planetside is that getting back to the fight in a timely manner is key when it comes to turning the tide. It uses a slot on the sundy to apply the AMS ability which is a good thing. This balances out in the long run, I hope they keep the sundy ams, and tweek it a bit with maybe a small cloak shield to protect the spawning troops like in the first PS.

[Raka Maru]

Love new S-AMS, now I'd like it to have good traction/steering like old AMS.

Only reason I got AMS Support Auraxium, earning that hideous looking orange
merit that I wore proudly; my AMS handled like a pro on damn near all terrain.

Yes it could use more stability, traction, and lower center of gravity. I flipped it once, and slid off a cliff several times.

[Whiteagle]

I do like the new battleground... except for the Tank Spam...

It doesn't help that there is a giant canyon separating us TR from two of our Major Facilities...

...Fucking Manmowers and Cylon Raiders...

[HenchAnt]

Really like the changes the S-AMS brought to gameplay.

Even though it's not yet perfect, it's definately a step in the right direction.

[Rivenshield]

Im thinking that the sundy AMS is working pretty well. I mean if the object of the game is to get people to the fight, so that they can have fun while playing the game is the over all target then this is the thing thats going to do it. I still think they should give a area restriction like with the old AMS, and with that a small cloak shield to prevent spawn kills.

All of this.

I haven't been able to play for two weeks, being on the road with crappy hotel Wi-Fi, but it does me immeasurable good to read about all the improvements that have been made. We have the AMS back -- sort of. Now let's get it back the rest of the way.... and after that, let's get sancs and rotatating wrap gates so we can fight different enemies in different directions...

...kicking and screaming will the devs re-learn the same game design lessons of yesteryear...

[DrakoGaming]

I really love the new S-AMS, I fought in a few battles today in a random field as we pushed to a new tile, felt a lot like PS1 in that sense.

[Ghost Runner]

All this talk about a cloak to protect spawners seems wrong if your getting camped that spawn is compromised and you should choose another spawn location. Mobile spawns should have drawbacks just my humble opinion.

[Baneblade]

PS2 AMS need shield bubble, not cloak bubble.

[Gugabalog]

PS2 AMS need shield bubble, not cloak bubble.

I like it.

[Bocheezu]

They seem OK; plenty of rocks to hide behind, even in the flat desert of the North.

I don't know if it's indended, but having them in the vehicle bay of Zurvan, behind every single shield, makes it super tough to take that base. Attackers have to destroy every shield generator (including the one by the capture point and just down the stairs from the vehicle bay) just got get to the vehicle bay.

I was surprised that you can't have spawning and vehicle ammo at the same time, so that felt like 50 cert points wasted. I think they halved the Prowler ammo capacity though, so probably not a total loss, but the Sundy driver should get +10 resupply bonus every time something gets ammo from it.

The handling on hills is just awful sometimes; the steering does absolutely nothing going down a hill and you just keep going and going and going in this straight line before you finally hit a flat spot where you can TURN. I realize this is supposed to mitigate the ability to roll over, but the thing is like a runaway beer truck and just doesn't ever slow down.

[ringring]

I like it.


No shield bubble .... the reason is if you go AMS hunting and you're successful you should get the reward.

[Baneblade]

No shield bubble .... the reason is if you go AMS hunting and you're successful you should get the reward.

How would the shield bubble affect success of AMS hunting? I'm more concerned with spawn camping, and so is SOE apparently.

[cBselfmonkey]

How would the shield bubble affect success of AMS hunting? I'm more concerned with spawn camping, and so is SOE apparently.

Give a deployed S-AMS a powerful, short ranged weapon? Like a deployable...cannon or something? Would certainly encourage people to take the thing out as opposed to just hanging around it to collect easy points. Give it a smallish firing arc to encourage smart deployment for defenders and strategic flanking for attackers.

[Tiberius]

Like the shield bubble idea. Thing needs more armor.

Also like the cannon spec idea. It's a sitting duck, def needs AA if its not going to cloak.

AV and AI would be nice too (maybe one turret you can switch from AA to AV on?)

[Baneblade]

It will discourage AMS camping, waiting for enemy to spawn at AMS for easy kill.

I know, which is why I suggested it. ;)

[ringring]

How would the shield bubble affect success of AMS hunting? I'm more concerned with spawn camping, and so is SOE apparently.

Have a cloaking shield but not a shield bubble.

I don't mind the idea of spawn camping simply because if you're getting spawn camped at an ams it's essentially your choice.

This is not to be compared to the spawn camping we've recently seen at tower spawns and similar where it was down to being unable to enter the spawns when the tower flips.

[Buggsy]

Scrubs - ***39;I Told You So***39; Dance - YouTube

[Hamma]

I like it but I miss my Galaxy spawn.

[Crator]

^ Right. The question still is, how do you remove whack-a-mole game play and still keep the GAL as a viable option?

[Crator]

Sounds like a good plan.

On another note but kind of related since we are talking battle flow mechanics. This is a must read thread: Hex vs Lattice: Which is best for PS2? (http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/hex-vs-lattice-which-is-best-for-ps2.26824)

It was posted today, about a hour ago. Not many replies in it yet. Really well thought out there. It covers 10 topics, 4 pages long. Yeah, he has a table of contents. :lol:

Topics Covered

I. Which system is more "strategic"?

II. The "Fight for every inch" Myth

III. Would a Mission System "Fix" the Hex System?

IV. Are the Large Battles at the Crown a good sign?

V. Would 2000 players make the Hex System Function correctly?

VI. Will the AMS "Fix" the Hex System?

VII. Would a PS1-style Lattice be too Static?

VIII. Is it "too late" to switch to a Lattice System?

IX. What about a Lattice/Hex Hybrid?

X. Esamir

[Traak]

IX. What about a Lattice/Hex Hybrid?

Latex? Only for the female avatars.

[TokyoZeplin]

I like the AMS spawn system way better than the old Galaxy.
However, three things I would like to see changed:

1)Price reduction. Man it's expensive, and massive cooldown. Both price (maybe 100 less or so) could go down, and timer reduction (5-10minutes). If you're in a smaller empire, or don't hold a lot of hexes, it takes aaaaages to get that.

2) Cloaking shield. Make the armour a little worse, but give it a cloaking shield like in PS1 instead. Back in PS1, clever AMS location were actually a big deal. Putting it a place where the enemy wouldn't notice players run out of thin air, getting it there without being spotted, and so on. I miss that, and I think it would add a great deal to the game.

3) Thing needs to be a little bit more manoeuvrable. It's absolutely impossible to get it up some ways, its horribly slow, and very very bad at turns. Not saying it should be super easy, but it could use a little boost. Or at least some CERTS to make it better in those aspects.

[Exmortius]

i ran around for about an hour with ams and i preferred it over the galaxy system as well. easier to get a squad where they need to go.

[Hamma]

Higby kicked around this idea last week; a Gal
that is the exclusive spawn of it's Squad.

I like to see it tested. On paper it looks like Hamma can have his Gal
spawn, but solely for his squad, to nerf the whack-a-mole game play.

Yea I have no problem with this - I think it's a pretty good idea.

[TokyoZeplin]

On another note but kind of related since we are talking battle flow mechanics. This is a must read thread: Hex vs Lattice: Which is best for PS2? (http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/hex-vs-lattice-which-is-best-for-ps2.26824)

It was posted today, about a hour ago. Not many replies in it yet. Really well thought out there. It covers 10 topics, 4 pages long. Yeah, he has a table of contents. :lol

Completely unrelated to the current topic, but that is a DAMNED good thread.

[Crator]

Not completely unrelated. The S-AMS was put in to attempt to fix game play mechanics that controlled the flow of battle. The hex and lattice systems do just that. The AMS component works with either of those systems but in different ways.

[Raka Maru]

Another thought about the S-AMS as a support roll is that to keep it alive, it kinda has to stay farther away from the epicenter of the battle to survive. How many times I would be in the contested grid but not quite close enough to the SOI and wouldn't get the capture/defense XP. The numerous spawns from it don't match the cap bonus at all at 5XP.

I end up playing more dangerously and sometime lose my truck. Infantry that I've been supporting run right back to battle and experience the base flip.

Get rid of the small SOI and this will help support classes that hang back to keep the fight going. If you are in the grid, you should get the XP.

[Buggsy]

Higby kicked around this idea last week; a Gal
that is the exclusive spawn of it's Squad.

I like to see it tested. On paper it looks like Hamma can have his Gal
spawn, but solely for his squad, to nerf the whack-a-mole game play.

"kicked around this idea"? I rest my case.

Game developers have no plan, no vision, just wing it, and have no idea how game mechanics effect player behavior which is why they need to mass beta test.

[cBselfmonkey]

"kicked around this idea"? I rest my case.

Game developers have no plan, no vision, just wing it, and have no idea how game mechanics effect player behavior which is why they need to mass beta test.

Yeah...because in a massively multiplayer online game having a large beta isn't beneficial at all. Nor are beta tests a good place to 'kick around' ideas. No no, far better to save all the real testing and changes for release. Betas should have a rigid goal in mind and not be open to changes based on player feedback whatsoever.