removing fog from the maps.

[wave]

There is a discussion on the beta forums about modifying your .ini files to remove fog. The difference is quite stunning. Unfortunately the posts on how to actually modify the .ini files are being deleted. Does anyone here know the trick?

http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/there-is-too-much-fog-on-esamir-pictures-inside.27654/

http://i.imgur.com/AA3U1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eTzCe.jpg

[Zulthus]

It's sad that people do this. The developers put fog there for a reason... it's a snowy continent and visibility is limited. Deal with it. I really enjoy the playstyle of Esamir, flying is especially fun... always have to watch where you're going.

Maybe once they implement weather they'll have clear days and foggy days.

[sylphaen]

The PS1 flora issue is back !

[Hamma]

The PS1 flora issue is back !

Indeed.

There should be no way in the client to disable this, hopefully they tweak it back.

[Tooterfish]

Looks like a cheat to me. If anything, Fog should just be another weather phenomenon that cycles from clear to low visibility.

[Fanglord]

Yeah, I would put this on a cheat list; I can see the AA tricks being fine but this clearly gives an advantage to the user.

plus I think it looks more dramatic with the fog.

[Sturmhardt]

The fog is ugly. It makes the game look 5 years older and the overall visual experience suffers greatly from it. It would be cool if the fog was a weather phenomenon during certain times or part of a blizzard or something - that would be awesome. But not like this.

It is so ugly that even higby disabled it during his preview video:
Planetside 2 Esamir Patch Preview - YouTube

So here is the answer to the question of this thread (I post this because it is also applicable to indar, where everything is prettier too without the fog, complaints about fog because it is ugly have always been there since beta and these tweaks are nothing new):


[Removed]

[EVILoHOMER]

This looks much better, what do I have to change to make it look like this? The bullshit fog they add just makes the game look like crap. Also is there an option to turn off the bullshit Depth of Field blur effects and Bloom?

I just want the game to look crisp, instead there is a ton of shit slapped over.

[Legolas]

<.<

I believe tis "[Removed]" that has the aptitude for the removal of the fogs.

>.>

edit - Oh, already posted above. Eh. Whatever.

[SpottyGekko]

There should be a mechanic in PS2 that gives increased XP for playing the game "as intended", kinda like the handicap in a game of golf :D

Let's face it, playing without the fog on Esamir is a clear (pun intended) advantage. FPS players have always been eager to find some "advantage", even if it means "tweaking game files" or using "3rd party helper apps"... *cough*

[Sturmhardt]

There should be a mechanic in PS2 that gives increased XP for playing the game "as intended", kinda like the handicap in a game of golf :D

Let's face it, playing without the fog on Esamir is a clear (pun intended) advantage. FPS players have always been eager to find some "advantage", even if it means "tweaking game files" or using "3rd party helper apps"... *cough*

Can we please stop this "omg this is an advantage, you are cheating!" stuff? This is beta and if the community doesn't want the fog and it looks shitty, it should be removed. For everybody. When the game is released and all features are in I will be on your side and stuff like this will be considered cheating, but until then let's keep this focused on feedback, okay?

Do you like the fog or not? Do you want it to stay or should it go? What looks better?

[Legolas]

Can we please stop this "omg this is an advantage, you are cheating!" stuff? This is beta and if the community doesn't want the fog and it looks shitty, it should be removed. For everybody. When the game is released and all features are in I will be on your side and stuff like this will be considered cheating, but until then let's keep this focused on feedback, okay?

Do you like the fog or not? Do you want it to stay or should it go? What looks better?

I like how fog adds an interesting whether mechanic, and in small doses I'd like the look of it.

I don't think an either/or answer is necessary. What I want to see is fog being reduced to half-hour periods for no more than two hours total in a day. The rest of the day would be clear, but sometimes you would have fog.

[EVILoHOMER]

Make fog dynamic and add it to a weather system then, just don't have it all the time.

[EVILoHOMER]

I'm guessing setting this to zero is it? When I start the game it goes back to 1 :\

[Removed]

[Shogun]

i don´t like the fog.

it should be a weather phenomenal only, not a permanent thing.

it would be very cool, if there was just some morning fog, maybe even as a local phenomenom in only some areas of the map like valleys. but it has to dissolve during the day to show the full beauty of the game!

distance blur is also very bad! hey, please include this in the next patchnotes:
we managed to finish our greatest invention for the soldiers on the battlefield! and we call it "glasses"
the soldiers will be able to see crisp and clear even at distances of (insert appropriate ingame value here)!

[ThGlump]

Whats the point for developers to create any weather effect, if you intent to remove it. Once this fog will be replaced by blizzards, rain etc, will you remove it too to have better visibility?
Everyone want weather effects, but bitch when they see one. This fog is probably in, that you get used to limited visibility, that will be there during bad weather. If we had clear air from start, everyone would complain that weather decrease visibility. With fog youll get used to it, and will be happy with new visuals that replace general fog.

[Tatwi]

Can we please stop this "omg this is an advantage, you are cheating!" stuff? This is beta and if the community doesn't want the fog and it looks shitty, it should be removed. For everybody. When the game is released and all features are in I will be on your side and stuff like this will be considered cheating, but until then let's keep this focused on feedback, okay?

Do you like the fog or not? Do you want it to stay or should it go? What looks better?

I think it makes the game look like a much older game and "like shit" in general. The "fog" is not an effect, like the sand storms on Indar. The sand storms are an actual environmental effect that is varied and tangible. The "fog" is simply a gamey limitation to reduce the amount of stuff the client renders.

Also, fog does not happen in the arctic, because the arctic is a desert. Also also, real fog looks better. Also also also, if you think the fog looks like a blizzard you have never been in a real blizzard; I have, being Canadian, actually experienced a variety of types of snow storms and none of them looked like Indar, but a lot of them were beautiful. On my 18th birthday I had to walk home 12Km through a blizzard where the snow flakes were the size of a hand, but also light and fluffy. It was fantastic and made a roaring "hush" sound so loud that I was nearly hit by a snow plow for not hearing it come up behind me (you haven't lived until you've been covered in 4 feet of snow by a road plow). Even after the plow went by, the roads weren't safe to drive on, due to the white out and icy conditions. Anyhow, Esimir has none of this and its "fog" simply looks like so much gamey garbage (because that's exactly what it is for). Why do that to such an a great looking game whose game engine can support so much more?

[Sturmhardt]

Whats the point for developers to create any weather effect, if you intent to remove it. Once this fog will be replaced by blizzards, rain etc, will you remove it too to have better visibility?
Everyone want weather effects, but bitch when they see one.

A weather effect? Hello? This ugly fog is haunting people since the beginning of 3D video games. Turok 1 on the N64 was the first time I can remember where this stupid shit was everywhere - but I accepted it because I knew it had to be and that that shitty console wouldn't be able to run it without fog.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a29/dark1x/turok_64_2.png

Now I have a machine 9000 times more capable than that old console - blurryness and fog should be history. We should have crisp clear graphics today. This is not a weather effect, it is an annoyance, on Indar and on Esamir. And I rage about it because it is so totally unneccessarily ruining the otherwise decent visuals of the game.

Edit: Oh, one thing: Check out Crysis from 2007: Clear visuals, no blur. Just like reality. So much better. And that was 5 Years ago!

http://www.lowbird.com/data/images/2009/02/crysis-1.jpg

[Gonefshn]

I agree people changing the fog and removing it themselves is cheap but honestly I have not been able to enjoy Esamir because I can never see 10 feet in front of myself In a vehicle. I want to see the vast beautiful continent fog isolates you to a small area and makes you lose just how huge the continent and battle is.

[Dagron]

Personally i'd rather have it as an actual weather effect than something constant and i truly want/hope they do it properly soon, but i also agree it's a dick move to modify the game's files so you don't see it while others do. You can claim it's because you think it's ugly all you want, you're still cheating (i know, right now it's no big deal since it's beta and all that, i don't disagree with that).

[psijaka]

The fog would be fine in small doses, first thing in the morning (as has been suggested). But constant fog is dreary. And I want to see the awesome skyscape!

As for whether altering ini files or whatever to clear the fog is a cheat or not -well if the game were fully released I would definately say YES, but as this is the beta, then NO. Edit - but it is still lame to gain an advantage in this way.

[Saintlycow]

First thing I did on esamir was get in a galaxy. The fog made the ride real tense, because you could barely see out the front of the gun.

pretty epic.

But flying is hard. Its really difficult to distiguish ground from sky

[Tooterfish]

Fog is also a way to scale draw distance and improve performance. I think it is important that this be noted as well in this debate.

[Steambot]

I actually rather like the fog. I haven't noticed anything overly limiting about it. Gives a nice sense of atmosphere, in my opinion.

[Figment]

For the record, removing the fog, whether or not in beta, is cheating as you change the client and gain an unfair advantage. This goes beyond exploiting, because you physically change something to get an effect that aids you in combat.

The fog is as far as I can tell a placeholder, sure it's not ideal and sure it'll be tweaked, but till then, how about you actually test what it's like to fight in an environment that's supposed to be extremely desorienting as intended? Your feedback on Esamir includes that. If you don't like it, FINE, by all means complain about it, but don't change it so you encourage others to change it as well to stay on a competitive level.

How the hell are you going to test a competitive game if you're leaving a portion of the playerbase with a handicap and the other runs around shooting them from a distance because they see things clear as day?

Or here's a thought: purchase one of the infra red sights and see how that works in this environment. Test. Don't avoid testing!

[DagofWood]

The fog is ugly. It makes the game look 5 years older and the overall visual experience suffers greatly from it. It would be cool if the fog was a weather phenomenon during certain times or part of a blizzard or something - that would be awesome.


According to devs the Planet is supposed to have weather like on Hoth. Maybe fog was a little thick at first but now it doesn't seem as bad.

Still I consider removing it the same as cheating. Did anyone try to use IR scope and I bet you could see through the fog with it.

[Hamma]

For the record, removing the fog, whether or not in beta, is cheating as you change the client and gain an unfair advantage. This goes beyond exploiting, because you physically change something to get an effect that aids you in combat.

Agreed. Some folks have posted videos on how to disable it.. shame on them. We will never post content of this sort on PSU or our various services.

[WiteBeam]

It wouldn't be "cheating" if they removed it for everyone and only allowed the fog as a random weather phenomenon. Just look at the pictures. The game looks worse than PS1 with the fog.

[Hamma]

No it wouldn't be but since it's there it is in fact cheating. ;)

I doubt it will be a permanent solution however they will never remove it outright.

[wave]

Agreed. Some folks have posted videos on how to disable it.. shame on them. We will never post content of this sort on PSU or our various services.

And yet the information on how to disable it is right in this thread. What are you playing at Hamma.

[DirtyBird]

Probably hard to implement but weather effects such as rolling fog could assist in assaulting bases, just like night fall.
Not a fog that is there all the time across the continent but a fog that is slow moving across the continent.
You could also add blizzard effects that make flying useless (aka sand storms?)
As Esamir doesnt have a normal day/night cycle I think they could use weather effects to compensate for this.

[Hamma]

I'm disappointed there is no night on Esamir - I think it would be awesome there.

[Notser]

Fog looks bad and hinders performance for some users. It is entirely too thick for the current weather on the continent. Can't engage enemies past the limit of the fog with the combination medium range weapons and players disappearing at 150 meters anyway.

Perfect world everyone would play with the exact same options and hardware, this isn't a perfect world. Beta has a million other issues that add to the imbalance, I would hope we care more about the epic stalemates that biolabs have become or the terrible cert costs for weapon attachments.

[Flaropri]

A few thoughts:

1. Is altering a games settings outside the in-game options to increase performance/capability cheating? I can understand the arguments for why it would be considered such, but I'm not sure I fully agree. For example, some games don't have the proper menus to alter important settings without going directly to an ini file (disabling hardware in The Longest Journey to avoid glitchy graphics or setting specific AA settings in other games etc.)

This is a bit different though, since it isn't hitting a "required" setting and it has a drastic difference in play in a PvP game. I don't think that deleting people saying how to do it helps the matter though, since that limits who knows how to do it, and makes it even more uneven. It might be going against what is "intended" but if everyone has the option than at least it's "fair." Ultimately, other than fidelity and a few other optimization options, weather should not be something you can flat out turn on or off via the client any more than the day/night cycle. "Fog" is a time honored tradition for limiting view distances for optimization purposes, and within the view-distance options that should be adjusted, but not actual intended fog and other "weather."


2. I'm also disappointed that Esamir doesn't seem to have a full night cycle. I really, really hope that "seasons" are implemented, so that during "summer" or whatever Esamir plays as described, but during "winter" it would be mostly night instead. Planetary tilt, it's an awesome thing. That would possibly be more of a long-term thing though.


3. The fog looks bad, and it should feel bad. I'm also for it as a localized weather effect, rather than being utterly pervasive. Among other things, changing conditions can make combat more dynamic. Snipers that had a clear view of battlements/roads suddenly new have to deal with limited visibility and get to a terminal or rely more on pistols and knife work or perhaps special scopes. People geared up for close-quarters combat in the fog-bank get to their objective and the fog suddenly starts to dissipate so they have to adapt by rushing into a building or pulling back to their forward spawn, etc.

I think that having fog does add fun(?) new elements, but I think it's important to keep it dynamic and changing. Some areas of a given map obviously would have more fog and more often than others (some might even be effectively perpetual) but I think having all fog all the time on a continent is too limiting even given the existence of multiple continents.

[Sturmhardt]

Yeah, great job @ removing a guide to edit files that are there to be edited. If they didn't want anyone to edit these files it would not be that easy. I guess you can call that censorship. Great work Hamma, now a circle of people can benefit from this, while everyone else does not have these options.

Anybody who wants to know how to disable the fog and the blur in the distance can PM me here or in the official forums under the same name.

[Maarvy]

It wouldnt be so bad if the fog was some kind of nice looking weather effect . How it stands it simply white/grey/brown/greens out your screen and make the game look like a pos .

[cellinaire]

Simple : No. Constant. Fog.

[Dagron]

A dark winter season would be fun, as long as it isn't pitch black all the time. Personally i'd like it if it was just a couple of in game "hours" of deep darkness and twilight (bleh) the rest of the "day".

Mmm, how long are Auraxis' current normal daylight cycles anyway? (@ Indar for instance).

[Miir]

Personally I do not like the fog but I still won't remove it unless it's an official option. Guess I'll just keep playing on Indar until they ban all the people for hacking the fog off. ;) It sucks to get shot by someone that you can't see.

[Gonefshn]

I haven't played on Esamir really since it's been added because the fog just ruins it. Disappointed.

[VaderShake]

I will just say that until they have the weather capability they are shooting for using fog is simply a way to show a diffrent environment/atmosphere and affect the way you have to play. If Esamir does not have fog it's just a white and grey desert no different environment than Indar. They said weather effects are coming in a year or 2, maybe they will change the fog dynamic then. Fog is a useful tool to affect the play dynamic and keep things varied.

Look at what BF3 did, no fog you can see the entire map from everywhere and shoot at flaoting triangles from across the map and call it skill, you can see all vehicle movements at all time = no surprises, you cannot effectiely flank without someone seeing you. I know PS2 is on a much, much larger scale but having enviroment/atmospheric variation is good and keeps things more fresh than everything looking the same.

Oh and going into the client and shutting it off = cheating, also it means your a pretty pathetic individual and you are extremely selfish. What you bragging to your imaginary friends "look im so smart I shut off fog in a video game so I can have an advantage, I'm so smart, cool, and awesome".....really...I pity you, go on shut of the fog it's still does not change the fact that your a complete tool.

[Mox]

The fog is just ugly. I dont know why they put it in. I hope it is some kind of a placeholder for something better. E.g. Some hovering fog clouds.

[julfo]

I personally can't stand the fog, but as others have said, modifying game files which are obviously not meant to be changed (as they are restored on each client load) is out of order.

Funny, though, how people feel the need to produce the old "hurr BF3 had no fog and it wuz shit durr lel dghfsghxrfth" argument. It really is quite childish, and something that I'm sure many people are now tired of.

[Gonefshn]

Look at what BF3 did, no fog you can see the entire map from everywhere and shoot at flaoting triangles from across the map and call it skill, you can see all vehicle movements at all time = no surprises, you cannot effectiely flank without someone seeing you. I know PS2 is on a much, much larger scale but having enviroment/atmospheric variation is good and keeps things more fresh than everything looking the same.

I would argue the opposite in 2 ways.

1. Having no fog and shooting at "triangles" across the map adds more dynamic gameplay. You have more to think about than what is in your immediate area surrounding you. You have to worry about the entire battlefield and you can look around and evaluate what is going on around you. Also super thick fog isolates you and makes you feel like your part of something immediate and small, not a huge war. It's more like an arena if I only have to deal with people in my general area.

2. Your reference to triangles makes no sense, things like flora and fog are the reason people shoot at triangles. In PS2 spotting through the fog will reveal those "doritos" and you'll be shooting through the fog at markers for things you can't see. Without fog you would actually be shooting at things you see. Fog would increase the issue of spotting as a targeting system.

I do agree it's good for variety but Esamir would not be a white indar without fog, the different territory sizes, terrain features and base design makes it completely different. I'd like some localized fog or maybe fog for a very short time in the day/night cycle similar to how night removes visibility during only a portion of your play experience.

[VaderShake]

Funny, though, how people feel the need to produce the old "hurr BF3 had no fog and it wuz shit durr lel dghfsghxrfth" argument. It really is quite childish, and something that I'm sure many people are now tired of.

How is comparing a similar situation with another game that had the same issue with fog childish?? It's a practical example to use to make a point about the pros/cons of fog in an FPS style game and the impact visibility has on gameplay. But yea I guesss it's a bad opps.."childsih" comparison considering how many large FPS MMO's with maps the size of PS2 exist out there fog free on every map.

[VaderShake]

I would argue the opposite in 2 ways.

1. Having no fog and shooting at "triangles" across the map adds more dynamic gameplay. You have more to think about than what is in your immediate area surrounding you. You have to worry about the entire battlefield and you can look around and evaluate what is going on around you. Also super thick fog isolates you and makes you feel like your part of something immediate and small, not a huge war. It's more like an arena if I only have to deal with people in my general area.

2. Your reference to triangles makes no sense, things like flora and fog are the reason people shoot at triangles. In PS2 spotting through the fog will reveal those "doritos" and you'll be shooting through the fog at markers for things you can't see. Without fog you would actually be shooting at things you see. Fog would increase the issue of spotting as a targeting system.

I do agree it's good for variety but Esamir would not be a white indar without fog, the different territory sizes, terrain features and base design makes it completely different. I'd like some localized fog or maybe fog for a very short time in the day/night cycle similar to how night removes visibility during only a portion of your play experience.

You hit on one major difference (among many) I left out about the triangles you see in PS2 vs. BF3, the terrain features, in BF3 you could see,shoot, and reach everything on the map with jsut aobut every weapons because there is no cover in BF3, in PS2 the terrain is more varried and diverse and adds elements of gameplay simply not found in BF3.

I am in complete agreement about localized dynamic fog, I would prefer that times a million over the general blanket fog approach, but until they work that out I don't have an issue with doing it the way it has always been done, I am sure they are trying to add a unique atmosphere to the tundra as well and until they can do it with snow storms they are choosing to do it with fog.

[Bittermen]

The fog sucks.

[Gonefshn]

You hit on one major difference (among many) I left out about the triangles you see in PS2 vs. BF3, the terrain features, in BF3 you could see,shoot, and reach everything on the map with jsut aobut every weapons because there is no cover in BF3, in PS2 the terrain is more varried and diverse and adds elements of gameplay simply not found in BF3.

I disagree, caspian has tons of rolling hills, and maps like Kharg and Noshar canals have TONS of boxes and buildings to hide behind. I still see where your coming from but if anything IMO the problem of long range shooting is more about weapon accuracy and TTK being so much better (as in greater not "fun" better). In BF3 killing enemies super far away is possible and viable it is just really hard to pull it off in PS2. Not because of terrain though IMO.

Either way seems like we are on the same page. The fog needs to be something you can escape, thats all I care about.

[VaderShake]

Either way seems like we are on the same page. The fog needs to be something you can escape, thats all I care about.

I agree.....it's all about making it a dynamic element, how interesting would it be to have a tough battle going and a fog bank randomly rolls in changing the tactics..

[Hamma]

https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/255402706091507712

[Gonefshn]

https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/255402706091507712

*loud applause errupts*

thanks hamma

[Morsong]

I'm disappointed there is no night on Esamir - I think it would be awesome there.

Whhhaattttt????

No wonder I couldn't find any night battles on any of the esamir videos I've been youtubing since last night. That sucks! One of the main things I was looking forward to was watching a huge firefight with snow falling during night time. I don't know much about lore but why isn't there night on esamir?

Maybe the devs can add it in..? *puppy dog eyes* :(

[Hamma]

Darkest it gets is dusk.

[Tatwi]

Darkest it gets is dusk.

Which makes sense for the latitude on a planet that has no discernible axial tilt.

[Sturmhardt]

https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/255402706091507712

Cool, thanks for asking.

Now let's hope this does not only affect Esamir and that they rethink their whole politics of blurry graphics and I'm happy.

[Ghoest9]

Indeed.

There should be no way in the client to disable this, hopefully they tweak it back.

Well back in the glory days of PS1 turning off flora didnt just give a small tactical advantage - it gave a huge performance game to many/most people.

If anything PS1 makes a case for allowing people to remove effects.

[Figment]

Well back in the glory days of PS1 turning off flora didnt just give a small tactical advantage - it gave a huge performance game to many/most people.

If anything PS1 makes a case for allowing people to remove effects.

Yet most people turned it off because they could see mines clearly then, removing a significant tactical advantage.

Please, that is like saying people that edited the gamma effects way up and certain settings to something I won't disclosee did that out of performance rather than getting a combat edge over infiltrators and AMSes without having to use Dark Light.

Or like those people that found a way to not render the cloak of cloaked objects at all! "It wasn't a cheat, since people could learn how to do it, so it is fair!". People said that then too. Honestly, I hope that there is going to be a midgame sumchecker on ini files to see if any have been altered, if they have and they are settings that shouldn't be edited, IMO the least you should get is a ctd.

[Hamma]

Which makes sense for the latitude on a planet that has no discernible axial tilt.

Oh it makes total sense. But the question is, why add this aspect of realism. :lol:

[Dagron]

Yeah, making sense is less important than providing fun elements... many of us want to experience night time in Esamir and that's preventing it. Maybe they could do a short season cycle specific to that continent and we could have a couple of dark days a week (not pitch black all the time of course). :p

As for the fog, Hamma could you ask Higby if they would be willing to make it a little more dynamic before they start working on the actual weather system? I'm pretty sure the answer will be "we have more important stuff to worry about now", but doesn't hurt to ask/suggest. :3

[Notser]

Odd that you guys would grab hold of the lack of night rather than the fact that this will mean a very harsh, dark, and deadly snowy continent that will be coming eventually. Probably could be very epic with snow blizzards and night to barely light over the horizon.

[Darkvenom]

dont care for the fog...i would rather have blizzard like conditions at night time