I'm sure many of you already seen this but..

[cellinaire]

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1512/higbycomments.jpg

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1512/higbycomments.jpg

Seems like mr.Higby and his team already have a plan to get rid of 'footholds on every continents' plan after Amerish is introduced... And he also talked about the fog. Interesting

[cellinaire]

I just made an ENTIRELY too long didn't read (TL/DR) post about this.....

If one of the primary concerns about Planetside 2 is how long it takes to unlock weapon attachments, then this game is utterly fucked. In a very, very fucking very bad way.

Uh, that means you made the post on official forum, not here....



Oh, sorry I just got confused here. So, you made a 'post' here, not a new 'thread'

[Hamma]

Wow.. interesting..

[Crator]

That is something the player base has been fighting over for a while now on the beta forums. Tis interesting indeed. Leaves me wondering how the warp gates connect to each other with the hex system.

[Natir]

Here is the original post I made with that image.. If you want to comment, you can keep the conversation going here:

http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/higbys-comments-on-the-enclave-stream.29487/

[Hamma]

Or you could keep the conversation going here as well. ;)

In all seriousness, if you guys do link stuff like this be sure to link the source if you have one. :D

[Natir]

Yeah, I don't mind. I mean, to be fair, my MSPaint skills are pretty hardcore though. Whatever will get the most publicity for the devs to take a look at it! The more places that talk about the same issues, the better.

[Zulthus]

Just...make...sanctuaries....

Get rid of footholds altogether...:doh:


All they do is make it easier for AFKers to soak up resources and take up spots that active players could be using to fight.

[Captain1nsaneo]

All they do is make it easier for AFKers to soak up resources and take up spots that active players could be using to fight.

Please allow me to change your opinion.

Where is the best place to go AFK?
Is it in the warpgate where you get a steady stream of resources?
Or
Is it hidden away in a crevice of a base that's on the front lines that will net you not only the steady stream of resources but also the points from when the base flips?

Let me give you a hint: It's the base.

The bit about being safe in warpgate isn't a good argument because there are people, like you, who are angry at AFKs and will TK them if they find them. Tech plants have some amazing spots where you can stuff yourself and never have to worry about being killed.

Sanctuaries won't stop people AFKing. You stop AFKing by setting up programs that look for it which they are already doing and have talked about.

[IRSAudit]

:eek: Leave the fog as it is, and fix the cheaters. Flying high above the fog is relatively clear, and if you see too much fog you had better pull up. Really though, I want the dynamic weather effects. That's the ultimate solution to the issue.

I think the cert gain is fine the way it is, and I honestly like the prices. If anything I'd make the certs have more of an impact once unlocked, which I understand they are already working on. 96 for an RDS persuaded me into certing an AMS Sundy and Spawn beacons instead, which varies game play even more. The price to get your army to battle should be cheap, but having them show up well-equipped should be expensive, as it is now. Besides, I don't understand how people aren't earning certs quickly, the XP flows freely when you're in a good battle.

I don't really have any comment on the home continents issue, beyond a vague fear that I'll be fighting over the same territory constantly. That already happens (less so on Esamir) so there's really no net loss if it happens changed with home continents.

[cellinaire]

Just...make...sanctuaries....

Get rid of footholds altogether...:doh:


All they do is make it easier for AFKers to soak up resources and take up spots that active players could be using to fight.

A good critic is the one who uses both the stick and carrot...



And about the fog.

Leave the fog as is? Nope.

Tone it down and make it a non-constant weather condition. ;)

[EVILoHOMER]

1. I hope Vanu get Amerish as that was the home cont every Vanu loved in PS.

2. The fog makes the game look ugly, it isn't cheating by wanting it off, this is 2012 and why do we still need this much fog? I want to turn it off 100%, I want to turn AA up, I want to turn bloom off and I want to turn the blur in the distance off.... I just want the game to look sharp and nice and not like GTA 4 on the consoles where it's all blurry and bloomy with fog everywhere,

3. I think you should decide your pricing structure and then time Auraxium accordingly and once you have done that then you can time the certs to how fast you unlock weapons and things. There is no point having all the weapons but no certs or all the certs and few weapons etc.

One thing is clear though, it needs to take time otherwise people will become bored as there is not an endless carrot on a stick and people wont feel the want to buy things if they can play and unlock it all within a month.

[Maarvy]

Carrots on sticks are for twats .

Seriously if leveling a char is whats keeping your players in game then the game is fucked , another 3 month wonder like every other half arsed mmo out there .

Fog dosent help performance it hurts it , turn it off for +20 fps . It makes the game look like shit and ruins the game play .

[pwningzcope]

thanks for sharing?

[Figment]

2. The fog makes the game look ugly, it isn't cheating by wanting it off, this is 2012 and why do we still need this much fog? I want to turn it off 100%, I want to turn AA up, I want to turn bloom off and I want to turn the blur in the distance off.... I just want the game to look sharp and nice and not like GTA 4 on the consoles where it's all blurry and bloomy with fog everywhere,

Wanting it off is an opinion and a complaint and that's fair. CHEATING is when you're actually turning it off without being entitled to do so.



So you know what you got there?


Cheater mentality. Cheaters always excuse themselves with extremely lame excuses on why they should be able to or allowed to change game files. The most common one is "everyone else does it, right?", but things like the way you worded the above is pretty much the same line of reasoning a cheater uses.


You want something, you dislike something, you disapprove of a way something is implemented in game, because it hinders you and everyone else deliberately. So you take unilateral action and change it so it suits you, while you don't care about all the ones who don't change it and dismiss any concerns about others having unaltered accounts because "everyone else could also cheat". You know what Homer, people aren't all as selfish as you.

What if this wasn't about fog, but you'd want to turn off or at least improve the Cone of Fire on random weapon X, because you "didn't like how it feels in game"? Maybe you think a weapon doesn't have high enough rate of fire or deal enough damage per round. Maybe the clip is too small? Hey, just change it unilaterally! That's not cheating, that's "wanting to improve your performance in battle!" and if you tell everyone how to do it, then at least most players would also change this just like you did right? And then after some time, everyone and all is equal again right? WRONG!

If you singlehandedly change the gaming environment for you, but not for everyone else so there's no advantage gain, then it is CHEATING and NOTHING ELSE. You have no right to change anything in the game that provides you with an explicit advantage over unaltered clients!

You want no fog? You want no bloom? Here's a thought: TOUGH LUCK. As long as I and everyone else has to deal with it? YOU deal with it, or get banned for cheating.

Take your pick



Say what you want, feel insulted all you want, but what you have there is cheater mentality the very moment you act on your personal pet peeves by finding it acceptable to alter the client, regardless of how you try to euphemise or excuse it.

[EVILoHOMER]

Is fog cheating? Everyone has triangles above them that you know where people are through the fog anyways. In fact most the time I cannot see anyone in the distance (especially at night) but I just shoot at triangles..........

I really don't think it has any impact.


I personally want hardcore servers like BF3 with no triangles, it was retarded in that game and it is retarded in PS2.

[Figment]

Is fog cheating? Everyone has triangles above them that you know where people are through the fog anyways. In fact most the time I cannot see anyone in the distance (especially at night) but I just shoot at triangles..........

I really don't think it has any impact.

Seriously? Time for a reality check.

With a triangle in the fog, you can't see if it's behind an object BECAUSE OF THE FOG.

Secondly, NOT EVERYONE HAS TRIANGLES OVER THEIR HEAD, as you have to manually spot. Meaning you have a far easier time to detect those guys without triangles while if you don't have a triangle over your head because you're not being spotted by someone, that you have an incredible visibility advantage over someone else. Plus if you just see triangles, you can't actualy go for things like headshots without severe luck, which you can if you can make out the target well and can relate the drop.

There. Your entire argument GONE. Either your just dense that you can't see the difference between the two, or you're looking for excuses that justify cheating. Third option is both. Take your pick.

Either way, it's incredibly stupid to think it makes no impact. Try being a bit more imaginative and a bit less recalcitrant, lazy and juvenile in your thinking. Throwing a hissy fit when you don't get the game just like you want, so you change it to how you want it is incredibly immature. I hope you don't mind being compared to crybabies, because you are.


If you change the client to gain a visibility advantage, REGARDLESS OF HOW SMALL YOU THINK THE IMPACT IS, then you're a cheat. Simple. Note that with fog, visibility is approximately 0.1-1km, opposed to what, 6km without fog, then the difference is rather significant, wouldn't you say?

[Goku]

A good critic is the one who uses both the stick and carrot...



And about the fog.

Leave the fog as is? Nope.

Tone it down and make it a non-constant weather condition. ;)

I finally logged into Esamir on Monday night. I was so hoping to see the terrain, but got met with just a massive white fog. Really doesn't show the true justice of the scale of the map IMO. Needs to be turned down a lot.

To those arguing about turning it off as cheating. I would rather have it off as I though Indar looked amazing with the /fog off command. As long as fog on or off has the same visibility (for seeing enemy units) it should be fine no?

[Figment]

I finally logged into Esamir on Monday night. I was so hoping to see the terrain, but got met with just a massive white fog. Really doesn't show the true justice of the scale of the map IMO. Needs to be turned down a lot.

To those arguing about turning it off as cheating. I would rather have it off as I though Indar looked amazing with the /fog off command. As long as fog on or off has the same visibility (for seeing enemy units) it should be fine no?

The cheating discussion is not about whether it looks better on or off, it's about turning it off whilst others have it on.

Consider that we for instance were flying over a group of tanks with a Liberator. We knew there were 7 tanks below us thanks to the indicators, but we couldn't actually see them at all (not even the headlights since they had those off). That made leading the shots hard, as you couldn't estimate distance well without a good point of reference.

This changes the game play of aircav to ground vehicles significantly.

Turning it off means your visibility suddenly provides you with tons of points of reference, vehicles being clearly visible against the background (as well as seeing if the background isn't actually the foreground) and thus easy target selection and leading. The fog on Indar isn't at all comparable, since the Indar fog is only active in the far distance where you can't really fight a target effectively anyway. I don't see how you can have both crispy clear visuals and the same visibility as a fogged landscape at once. Do you instead want invisible tanks? But even then you have a better chance of hitting something by being able to relate your shots to the countryside.

If the selfishness of a few players removes the entire mechanism and thus poor visibility game play, what's the point of having it in the first place?

[FenHarel]

Looks like some fights are gonna be going down! cant wait to get a key!

[Sturmhardt]

Figment, I can't hear you over the sound of mimimimi coming from your direction.

@topic: I am very happy to hear that cross continental warfare is planned!

[MaxDamage]

I logged in and found that it was impossible to access dual cyclers on a TR MAX unit from the get go.
I could do it in Planetside 1, where MAX units were more deadly due to indoor combat and tunnels being the primary focus, but not in Planetside 2 where MAX units are fodder we have to PAY for?

Are the devs on CRACK?
Is this game run by COD fanboys now?

Bring back MAX units.

[ringring]

Yes, it's better and it will get better still with more continents.

Also it implies the auraxium farming issue is going to be solved.


ps: judging from my frames fog makes no difference, I get the same on Indar and on Esamir ..... except when I made a NC char and had a look at the southern bases of Esamir, it was very foggy, there was no other person there and my frames went up by 50-60!

[Rat]

I logged in and found that it was impossible to access dual cyclers on a TR MAX unit from the get go.
I could do it in Planetside 1, where MAX units were more deadly due to indoor combat and tunnels being the primary focus, but not in Planetside 2 where MAX units are fodder we have to PAY for?

Are the devs on CRACK?
Is this game run by COD fanboys now?

Bring back MAX units.

Nothing wrong with Max units....save up some Auraxium and buy the other arm.

As far as the fog? I like it, I do agree that it should be a localized and random event, and shouldnt be able to be turned off.

[Figment]

Figment, I can't hear you over the sound of mimimimi coming from your direction.

Then maybe you should read instead, this is a written forum: there is no sound. So that sound might indicate there's something wrong with your speakers, or your hearing.

Bad troll is bad. Post a counter-argument or sod off with your flamebait.

[AnamNantom]

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1512/higbycomments.jpg

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1512/higbycomments.jpg

Seems like mr.Higby and his team already have a plan to get rid of 'footholds on every continents' plan after Amerish is introduced... And he also talked about the fog. Interesting

Cheating to remove the fog/blizzard effect on Esamir? Idiots! That's part of the game play challenge. I do NOT like the pattern of removing content because people are trying to work around it by disabling it's use. I'm guessing they disabled things on their video cards or maybe the player config file.

Is someone feels the need to break the parameters of gameplay in order to win, they are not winning at all. I can figure out ways to do the same, but then, it only becomes a hacking challenge. I appreciate the true ingenuity of true hacking, but, I couldn't enjoy winning when I thought it might be because of an unfair advantage I had because of a system exploit. I repeat I can NOT enjoy winning when I thought it might be because of an unfair advantage I had because of a system exploit.

[Mastachief]

So essentially each empire gets a home continent, seen that in some game before can't remember the name of the game though...........

Though with only 3 continents i don't see how this will solve anything, it may even worsen the situation.

[AnamNantom]

A good critic is the one who uses both the stick and carrot...



And about the fog.

Leave the fog as is? Nope.

Tone it down and make it a non-constant weather condition. ;)


Here's the thing, it's not a constant thing. I've seen the sky clear up and fought rather sunny battles. I'm questioning if many of you have seen the clear spots.

We want weather effects and we want them to make a distinct impact on gameplay. Right?

When they make thunderstorms a reality, it will be a beautiful thing to see. What about the rare Hurricane or tornado?

[AnamNantom]

So essentially each empire gets a home continent, seen that in some game before can't remember the name of the game though...........

Though with only 3 continents i don't see how this will solve anything, it may even worsen the situation.


NOTE: There will be MORE than 3 continents, not at launch, but they are all making a comeback. PS 1 had 10 continents. We will at least get that. I also know they want to make some continents empty of bases in order for us to be able to drop bases down onto the surface of Auraxis. :)

[Figment]

Well that's Smedley's ambition (the own placement thing), I'm not sure how viable it is. If we get clear areas, or sections where we can upgrade or place a variety of options maybe, but it'll be hard for us to place on random terrain. :)

[maradine]

Here's the thing, it's not a constant thing. I've seen the sky clear up and fought rather sunny battles. I'm questioning if many of you have seen the clear spots.

We want weather effects and we want them to make a distinct impact on gameplay. Right?

When they make thunderstorms a reality, it will be a beautiful thing to see. What about the rare Hurricane or tornado?

Exactly. Make the severe weather severe, but temporal.

I like the cross-peak, perfect visibility battles like Crown vs. Regent Rock, etc. You know what? I also like bumbling around in pea soup, trying to follow the tracers to their source. Variety is the spice of life. Why you'd turn it off is simply baffling to me.

[Squidrid]

Just...make...sanctuaries....

Get rid of footholds altogether...:doh:


All they do is make it easier for AFKers to soak up resources and take up spots that active players could be using to fight.

this

[EVILoHOMER]

Carrots on sticks are for twats .

They're what keep people playing because it is content. I've you've unlocked everything and seen everything the game has to offer then you'll become bored that there is nothing exciting left.

[Maarvy]

They're what keep people playing because it is content. I've you've unlocked everything and seen everything the game has to offer then you'll become bored that there is nothing exciting left.

If the game has nothing exiting exept unlocking the next scope or vehicle upgrade to keep you playing .... well I'll leave the rest unsaid apart from I stand by my original statement .

[Bzak]

I like the fog I havent noticed any performance problems and Im running below minimum specs without noticing any fps drop from it. I get fps drop from large battles thats it. I do wish the weather was dynamic. Fog in the morning but clear skys in the afternoon.
The footholds dont bother me to much but if they change it thats fine. I understand this game is stil in beta and alot is going to change. But some of you need to stop acting like pootang. This is a war game.

[bodypopper]

If the game has nothing exiting exept unlocking the next scope or vehicle upgrade to keep you playing .... well I'll leave the rest unsaid apart from I stand by my original statement .

yeah pretty much,its depth and learning that kept me coming back to planetside rather than mindless levelling for a crappy scope.

it was like the old rubiks cube ad when i was a kid,"simple to pick up,hard to master"

[getembees]

Regarding average cert-completion times.

The current cert levels seem high for weapon modifications after the Esamir patch. If they continue to stay high, the game will require a training center like in PS1, where all the weapons are unlocked. Otherwise the guessing game is too stressful. Id really prefer to just have a big "sim room" with targets at different ranges, so I can see whether a 7x zoom is effective on X, Y, Z guns. It would also be great to test the nades, not to mention different weapons on vehicles. Wish I knew how the mortar shot before I bought it.

Id also like to ask that if weapon attachments remain expensive, that a sight be available for all guns when unlocked.

[EVILoHOMER]

If the game has nothing exiting exept unlocking the next scope or vehicle upgrade to keep you playing .... well I'll leave the rest unsaid apart from I stand by my original statement .

Just how people are, that's why loot based games are so popular like Diablo or World of Warcraft. If you didn't have that next bit of gear to get constantly then people wouldn't be so addicted to them.

So it wouldn't do any harm to add constant endless progression, I mean EVE Online's training proves this, it keeps people subscribed. If you don't care about it then fair enough, just play the game and ignore it.

[Figment]

They're what keep people playing because it is content. I've you've unlocked everything and seen everything the game has to offer then you'll become bored that there is nothing exciting left.

:huh:

No. No no no no no no no no no no no no. NO.


NO!


Bloody @*$#(*)$***$ hell.


NO!

For crying out loud. Are you in this thread to prove you have absolutely no idea about anything? "Oh hey, I've unlocked all pawns, knights, rooks, towers, the queen, the king and... oh that's all, guess I'll leave the game now because I unlocked all the content without even playing..."


Do you know the first thing about playing a game? Do you know what gaming content is? IT IS THE ENTERTAINMENT VALUE OF THE GAME. If the game's only "content" is new gear, the next gear, the next piece of fake cloth and that's the only redeeming quality a game has, then that game should be burned to the ground. It should not be allowed to survive for 3 seconds. SADLY people like YOU have been indoctrinated into believing that GRIND is what GAMING is about. NO.


NO!

Gaming is about experience, challenge, thought, exploration, tactics, fun, giggling with or pestering friends, being creative, using your imagination, you name it. GEAR? Screw gear!

How the hell do you dare name gear the thing that keeps people playing when you're talking about a sequal of a game that hardly got new content for 10 years!?


HOW ABOUT VARIETY OF CHOICE AND GAME PLAY EXPERIENCE? How about being able to create your own experiences? How about being able to best others, to create rivalries, sense of community and loyalty, pride, etc.


REPLAYABILITY. THAT is what keeps people. Games that rely on tiering and leveling and mob grinding for gear (called "content") are run by developers that lost all sight of the true definition of content. Content is what's there in the game to make the game worthwhile. Because they're only focused on instant gratification because some PowerPoint presentation they once saw said that some players like that, they go and assume and then teach ALL players that the only interesting reason the play the game is to get that next gear. The path to that gear? UNINTERESTING. JUST GET THE DAMN GEAR ALREADY! Let's make another quest that's fundamentally the exact same thing and completely boring and repetitive because nothing ever changes, but now... YOU'LL GET A DIFFERENT PIECE OF GEAR! CONTENT!?!! Right!?

NO!


Do you only play sports because at the end of the match the referee hands you a new ball? A new shoelaser? A new pair of trousers?


NO!

You play because it's FUN. Because each opponent is different and you start from scratch (0-0) every damn match and you have to prove your worth each and every time again! THAT is replayability. THAT is what keeps people playing! NOT some artificial damn addiction trick!

Sure, you can stimulate the collector gene in all human beings for a quick score. The problem is that after each score, it becomes like heroine: you need another quick score or the entire thing falls apart. You create an expectation of ecstacy that no mediocre grind game can provide till eternity. So you artificially raise levels. You start adding remakes of quests in a new jacket for the sake of adding new quests which you know are linear and you know will be the same each time a player goes in, they know what they can expect and the whole quest itself therefore becomes utterly irrelevant. That makes the quest type contest complete and utter garbage that you know you have to keep feeding the player with and raise the bar every time, because they'll expect there to be "something more at some point, somewhere there's a reason you're getting all this gear, right?", but that point never arrives, so you just have to keep adding and adding and adding till players realise you're not leading them anywhere anymore aside from that quick score.

That's the MMORPG model: create addicts. Deprive people of creativity. Make gaming a job... HORRIBLE.


REAL content can be found by stimulating the mind and letting the player be endlessly creative instead. A game like PlanetSide keeps you playing because no matter how often you attack and take a facility, each time is different and unique because not only are your opponents actual humans with a mind of their own, they are in another position each time, each time they're different people, who respond different to you and provide you with different challenges. Many times they bring different gear. Many times you bring different gear. Your allies may differ. The map situation may differ. Or they're enemies you know, but you meet them in a different context and they've learned from their last encounter with you. Each time you win you triumph over enemies. Only after years and years of playing will you have gone through a large portion of the endless variations and even that is no guarantee of success. You're still challenged.

THAT is what keeps people playing games like this.

Not unlocking some damn silencer or scope! FFS.

[Dagron]

I agree 100% with you Figment, but don't pop a blood vessel man.

[sylphaen]

:huh:

No. No no no no no no no no no no no no. NO.


NO!


Bloody @*$#(*)$***$ hell.


NO!

For crying out loud. Are you in this thread to prove you have absolutely no idea about anything? "Oh hey, I've unlocked all pawns, knights, rooks, towers, the queen, the king and... oh that's all, guess I'll leave the game now because I unlocked all the content without even playing..."


Do you know the first thing about playing a game? Do you know what gaming content is? IT IS THE ENTERTAINMENT VALUE OF THE GAME. If the game's only "content" is new gear, the next gear, the next piece of fake cloth and that's the only redeeming quality a game has, then that game should be burned to the ground. It should not be allowed to survive for 3 seconds. SADLY people like YOU have been indoctrinated into believing that GRIND is what GAMING is about. NO.


NO!

Gaming is about experience, challenge, thought, exploration, tactics, fun, giggling with or pestering friends, being creative, using your imagination, you name it. GEAR? Screw gear!

How the hell do you dare name gear the thing that keeps people playing when you're talking about a sequal of a game that hardly got new content for 10 years!?


HOW ABOUT VARIETY OF CHOICE AND GAME PLAY EXPERIENCE? How about being able to create your own experiences? How about being able to best others, to create rivalries, sense of community and loyalty, pride, etc.


REPLAYABILITY. THAT is what keeps people. Games that rely on tiering and leveling and mob grinding for gear (called "content") are run by developers that lost all sight of the true definition of content. Content is what's there in the game to make the game worthwhile. Because they're only focused on instant gratification because some PowerPoint presentation they once saw said that some players like that, they go and assume and then teach ALL players that the only interesting reason the play the game is to get that next gear. The path to that gear? UNINTERESTING. JUST GET THE DAMN GEAR ALREADY! Let's make another quest that's fundamentally the exact same thing and completely boring and repetitive because nothing ever changes, but now... YOU'LL GET A DIFFERENT PIECE OF GEAR! CONTENT!?!! Right!?

NO!


Do you only play sports because at the end of the match the referee hands you a new ball? A new shoelaser? A new pair of trousers?


NO!

You play because it's FUN. Because each opponent is different and you start from scratch (0-0) every damn match and you have to prove your worth each and every time again! THAT is replayability. THAT is what keeps people playing! NOT some artificial damn addiction trick!

Sure, you can stimulate the collector gene in all human beings for a quick score. The problem is that after each score, it becomes like heroine: you need another quick score or the entire thing falls apart. You create an expectation of ecstacy that no mediocre grind game can provide till eternity. So you artificially raise levels. You start adding remakes of quests in a new jacket for the sake of adding new quests which you know are linear and you know will be the same each time a player goes in, they know what they can expect and the whole quest itself therefore becomes utterly irrelevant. That makes the quest type contest complete and utter garbage that you know you have to keep feeding the player with and raise the bar every time, because they'll expect there to be "something more at some point, somewhere there's a reason you're getting all this gear, right?", but that point never arrives, so you just have to keep adding and adding and adding till players realise you're not leading them anywhere anymore aside from that quick score.

That's the MMORPG model: create addicts. Deprive people of creativity. Make gaming a job... HORRIBLE.


REAL content can be found by stimulating the mind and letting the player be endlessly creative instead. A game like PlanetSide keeps you playing because no matter how often you attack and take a facility, each time is different and unique because not only are your opponents actual humans with a mind of their own, they are in another position each time, each time they're different people, who respond different to you and provide you with different challenges. Many times they bring different gear. Many times you bring different gear. Your allies may differ. The map situation may differ. Or they're enemies you know, but you meet them in a different context and they've learned from their last encounter with you. Each time you win you triumph over enemies. Only after years and years of playing will you have gone through a large portion of the endless variations and even that is no guarantee of success. You're still challenged.

THAT is what keeps people playing games like this.

Not unlocking some damn silencer or scope! FFS.

Thank you Figgy ! My mind was starting to boil and run out of control but I'm in a train, on a mobile phone.

If anything, your post should count twice until I can also type a response.
:)

Even if devs decided to throw out the whole levelling part of the game and have everything unlocked from day 1, the game should be challenging, entertaining and engaging by itself.

The reason I came back to PS1 year after year ? Enjoyment and no farming. Yes, PS1 levelling system did not require farming: I was still using a punisher at BR33.

I was having fun with half the cert points we were alllowed to play with. Getting BR, BEP and CEP was a side result of having fun.

[Hamma]

I think EVILoHOMER has proven he has no idea whats going on, in another thread he's said he can't be "bothered" with the cert system. If he can't be bothered with some of the most important stuff in the game he shouldn't be discussing it.

I don't say that stuff often, but if you make a comment like that then I'm not sure why you still even care where PS2 is going.

[Miir]

In regards to the footholds being remove:

It's good to hear they are considering removing footholds as I'm not a fan.

But I have to ask how will giving each empire one continent be better? If each continent supports 2000 players and you only can spawn on your home continents foothold. Then there will be potential for a lot of players to be stuck in limbo because of population caps. Unless they are planning to give you a means to spawn in and attack anywhere on any continent? But the adjacency rules pretty much prevents this so I really have no idea how this can work.

In regards to the fog:

Way to set your anti-hacking bar high SOE. ;)

In regards to how long it should take to unlock weapons:

You should be given enough certs to specialize a bit in one class as soon as you create a character. Then earn the rest of the certs slowly. A player should be able to pick his favorite gear on day 1 and use that. If you want a reflex site then you got it. If you want a better healing tool you got it. If you want a spawn beacon you got it. Putting any sort of limitation on someones playstyle for a time is just an unnecessary handicap that needs to be removed. I play this game for the global war aspect not for the MMO style grind to unlock my shit. Why penalize me for that.

[Dagron]

Mmm, i guess it would be nice to have enough certs to get a couple of things from the get go.

[AnamNantom]

:huh:

No. No no no no no no no no no no no no. NO.


NO!


Bloody @*$#(*)$***$ hell.


NO!

For crying out loud. Are you in this thread to prove you have absolutely no idea about anything? "Oh hey, I've unlocked all pawns, knights, rooks, towers, the queen, the king and... oh that's all, guess I'll leave the game now because I unlocked all the content without even playing..."


Do you know the first thing about playing a game? Do you know what gaming content is? IT IS THE ENTERTAINMENT VALUE OF THE GAME. If the game's only "content" is new gear, the next gear, the next piece of fake cloth and that's the only redeeming quality a game has, then that game should be burned to the ground. It should not be allowed to survive for 3 seconds. SADLY people like YOU have been indoctrinated into believing that GRIND is what GAMING is about. NO.


NO!

Gaming is about experience, challenge, thought, exploration, tactics, fun, giggling with or pestering friends, being creative, using your imagination, you name it. GEAR? Screw gear!

How the hell do you dare name gear the thing that keeps people playing when you're talking about a sequal of a game that hardly got new content for 10 years!?


HOW ABOUT VARIETY OF CHOICE AND GAME PLAY EXPERIENCE? How about being able to create your own experiences? How about being able to best others, to create rivalries, sense of community and loyalty, pride, etc.


REPLAYABILITY. THAT is what keeps people. Games that rely on tiering and leveling and mob grinding for gear (called "content") are run by developers that lost all sight of the true definition of content. Content is what's there in the game to make the game worthwhile. Because they're only focused on instant gratification because some PowerPoint presentation they once saw said that some players like that, they go and assume and then teach ALL players that the only interesting reason the play the game is to get that next gear. The path to that gear? UNINTERESTING. JUST GET THE DAMN GEAR ALREADY! Let's make another quest that's fundamentally the exact same thing and completely boring and repetitive because nothing ever changes, but now... YOU'LL GET A DIFFERENT PIECE OF GEAR! CONTENT!?!! Right!?

NO!


Do you only play sports because at the end of the match the referee hands you a new ball? A new shoelaser? A new pair of trousers?


NO!

You play because it's FUN. Because each opponent is different and you start from scratch (0-0) every damn match and you have to prove your worth each and every time again! THAT is replayability. THAT is what keeps people playing! NOT some artificial damn addiction trick!

Sure, you can stimulate the collector gene in all human beings for a quick score. The problem is that after each score, it becomes like heroine: you need another quick score or the entire thing falls apart. You create an expectation of ecstacy that no mediocre grind game can provide till eternity. So you artificially raise levels. You start adding remakes of quests in a new jacket for the sake of adding new quests which you know are linear and you know will be the same each time a player goes in, they know what they can expect and the whole quest itself therefore becomes utterly irrelevant. That makes the quest type contest complete and utter garbage that you know you have to keep feeding the player with and raise the bar every time, because they'll expect there to be "something more at some point, somewhere there's a reason you're getting all this gear, right?", but that point never arrives, so you just have to keep adding and adding and adding till players realise you're not leading them anywhere anymore aside from that quick score.

That's the MMORPG model: create addicts. Deprive people of creativity. Make gaming a job... HORRIBLE.


REAL content can be found by stimulating the mind and letting the player be endlessly creative instead. A game like PlanetSide keeps you playing because no matter how often you attack and take a facility, each time is different and unique because not only are your opponents actual humans with a mind of their own, they are in another position each time, each time they're different people, who respond different to you and provide you with different challenges. Many times they bring different gear. Many times you bring different gear. Your allies may differ. The map situation may differ. Or they're enemies you know, but you meet them in a different context and they've learned from their last encounter with you. Each time you win you triumph over enemies. Only after years and years of playing will you have gone through a large portion of the endless variations and even that is no guarantee of success. You're still challenged.

THAT is what keeps people playing games like this.

Not unlocking some damn silencer or scope! FFS.

Yes, this. Some think RPG and it means what you said about grinding for content. Like this, that I'm sure you all read, about Penny Arcade giving Planetside 2 a snub: http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/planetside-2-beta-impressions-a-blend-of-rpg-and-fps-with-none-of-the-innov All this is precisely why I do not like alot of MMORPG's. I want sandbox. Eve is sandbox, and Planetside is sandbox. I like both because it helps me forge what I am in relation to the story and to others. You are MORE the character and less the viewer of a story.

[cellinaire]

Here's the thing, it's not a constant thing. I've seen the sky clear up and fought rather sunny battles. I'm questioning if many of you have seen the clear spots.

We want weather effects and we want them to make a distinct impact on gameplay. Right?

When they make thunderstorms a reality, it will be a beautiful thing to see. What about the rare Hurricane or tornado?

Oh, my bad. I completely forgot that when I was attacking the central techplant on Esamir, the sky was rather clear. My brain cells. Hurts. :groovy:

But is it still continent-wise, not localized?

[Figment]

Oh, my bad. I completely forgot that when I was attacking the central techplant on Esamir, the sky was rather clear. My brain cells. Hurts. :groovy:

But is it still continent-wise, not localized?

I'm not entirely sure how or if they've made it dynamic, since I've only fought on Esa twice so far (twice with the NC completely dominating both sides, even with 48% pop, the battle over Mani costs both VS and TR all other terrain, where the NC are already advantaged in terms of reach over the south, anyway).

It is possible the fog moves, or that they've already changed the settings, because the first time I couldn't see a thing, whereas the second time it was more like a slightly poorer visibility to Indar. Either way, I really do hope they're not dropping the idea of poor visibility (of course it would be nice if it was worked out better).

http://severe-wx.pbworks.com/f/blizzard.jpg

http://www.weatherstock.com/slides/Blizzard%201-RF-CD.JPG

[Livefire]

Just...make...sanctuaries....

Get rid of footholds altogether...:doh:


All they do is make it easier for AFKers to soak up resources and take up spots that active players could be using to fight.
Yupe this is the only way that the AFK situation is going to be fixed and it made sense with the global domination meta game and was enjoyed by most players in PS1. There is no reason for it not to be in PS2. We need Sancs. And I would be fine with making them attackable as well. Just make it impossible for the attacks with really good AI defences like the bases had in PS1 just way better.

[EVILoHOMER]

And yet millions play play and get addicted to COD because there is a constant progression and most of the population quit Planetside within the first year because they were bored of the lack of progression. It wasn't enough to just have the same gameplay over and over again, people wanted to be able to advance their character. I mean even SOE added more BR levels so people could continue to do so...

You say I have no idea but clearly you don't know what keeps people around :S

[Figment]

And yet millions play play and get addicted to COD because there is a constant progression and most of the population quit Planetside within the first year because they were bored of the lack of progression. It wasn't enough to just have the same gameplay over and over again, people wanted to be able to advance their character. I mean even SOE added more BR levels so people could continue to do so...

You say I have no idea but clearly you don't know what keeps people around :S

Yeah, you really have no idea.


Try this thread on why the player base ACTUALLY demised:
http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=46776&highlight=debunking

HINT: Progression wasn't the problem. (Poorly implemented) NEW CONTENT WAS.

As for your millions play CoD comment: You honestly purchased CoD because you knew in advance you could get a new scope on a rifle?

You really got all that excited about the prospect of getting an extra grip? Do you even know how long CoD players play CoD after the initial purchase, or do you simply presume that because there's been x million sales, that CoD players keep playing CoD for 10 years? Which they don't?

Maybe, just maybe, CoD doesn't have sufficient actual game content? Maybe, CoD sells primarily on the single player mode and many people don't even care for the multiplayer progression model at all? Because I can tell you that of the 25 people in my RL environment I know to have played CoD, NONE play anymore, NONE want to even play the 4 player deathmatch anymore and NONE ever played it online. And you know what? Of the people I played directly, (about 6 one day a week at first), only 3 were interested in adding any attachments to their rifles and making changes beyond the initial one: Me, my brother and one friend. And the ones we got were only the ones we wanted and the ones we got by accident. In fact, my brother and that friend each only used two or three weapons in total out of all the weapons available in game. I'm the only one who used shotguns or akimbo and experimented with different things. The others just used standard setups and didn't even bother to personalise at all. The far more casual players who never really played FPS games anyway didn't care one bit. The amount of players that plays to unlock every single thing in CoD is incredibly small.


The most important thing of multiplayer CoD is that you can quickly replay matches and try to defeat your peers. The lack of options at low battle rank is an annoyance first and foremost, but the overwhelming amount of options at higher ranks is an incredibly fuzzy, overconvoluted and uninteresting scenario to most players. Of all the PS2 scopes, I'm only interested in two per gun, tops. I don't care one bit about the remainder and the sole reason I'd unlock them is because I could, not because I'd want to. I wouldn't play at all if that'd be the reason to play.

You completely confuse cause and effect. The automated effect of long term playing a game is to unlock stuff. The cause of long term play is not unlocking stuff. Some games have made the objective unlocking stuff by making it a huge selling point focus, but they forgot to actually provide game play in the meantime, which is the actual selling point. HENCE WHY SO MANY GAMERS HAVE BEEN DISAPPOINTED WITH COD AND BF OVER THE LATEST INCARNATIONS: developing spin-off fluff became more important than the actual game play, because that was the only thing these developers in their tunnel vision knew to differentiate with anymore.

You really should try looking outside of your frame or reference and get to know the perspectives of other peoples before you make assumptions about them.

[GuyFawkes]

So essentially each empire gets a home continent, seen that in some game before can't remember the name of the game though...........

Though with only 3 continents i don't see how this will solve anything, it may even worsen the situation.

Well, we have Indar and Esamir, Amerish is on its way, been so for a bit. And Searhus is also been unveiled as work in progress. 3 could be problematical, but once the 4th is here it should mix things up a tad.

I hope they add in a 4th warpgate to each continent. With each continent being square, it makes sense to have the 4th corner useable in a tactical way. I dislike the squareness personally, if you are going to use any shape I would have thought a hex would fit in , but I'd prefer the old style if I had a choice.

[Dagron]

I like the persistence of the world and 40+ people gathered in one battle is something to see, but I couldn’t shake the feeling that it all felt very pointless. Why are we fighting? To protect a base so that we can more efficiently protect another base? My experience with the beta combined with Isaac’s response leaves me feeling there’s nothing more to this game than killing for the sake of killing and, while there’s nothing wrong with that design, Planetside 2 is entering a crowded market. Even the idea of a persistent world map isn’t as novel as it once was. Planetside 2 is also going to face stiff competition from other free to play multiplayer games that seem so prevalent these days.
I understand the concern some people are having about PS2 and i agree that there should be more to a game than just running around taking bases for the sake of having them, most people feel that beating the other guys isn't enough of a reason to keep playing a game for years... but unlocking weapons/attachments is an even weaker reason. It's like Figment said, they're not the cause for people to stay, they're just an effect.

[maradine]

aneurism
I frequently disagree with you, but you've never been more right.