What does this game remind you of more...

[Xaine]

Planetside 1 or Battlefield X?

To my mind, everything from the class system, the base capture mechanics, the way the veichals are designed, the unlock and upgrade system... even the way the points pop up on your screen, the way the automated voice-over talks to you...

It all points towards Battlefield.

Really, if no one told you the name of this game and you started to play it, take away the factions and weapons. Just look at how the game plays and feels... Would you think it was Planetside, or a Battlefield MMO?

Where is the free-form inventory, the real cert system, the more 'sandboxy' features like adding viruses to a base, or hacking an enemy vehicle. Where is real hacking, having to hack a door to open it etc.

The game is good, and it will be great. I understand why they're taking the direction that they are, to appeal to a wider market etc

But the fact remains, this is not, to my mind 'Planetside 2'.

[Tatwi]

In this day and age, where a company can patent a rectangle with rounded corners and use said patent to win a massive law suit, I am honestly shocked that no one has complained about how the PS2 UI looks almost identical to the BF3 UI.

Just as an fyi to anyone who thinks game play things in computer games can't be patented, SOE holds the patent to the Beast Master system they used in Star Wars Galaxies. Go ahead and make a game that copies it and see how long it takes for SOE to drag you to court. :lol:

[Infernalis]

I think they wanted to go more on the direction of Battlefield at first but are slowly going back to Planetside 1, resulting in a mix of both. The more the game progress the more you feel the PS1 influence.

[ringring]

I think they wanted to go more on the direction of Battlefield at first but are slowly going back to Planetside 1, resulting in a mix of both. The more the game progress the more you feel the PS1 influence.

Yea, there is that which you said Xaine but we are going to get the global 3-faction persistent warfare.

Now all we got to do is get the ttk down to something reasonable in order to promote actual 'fighting' rather than 'dying, respawning and running some more' gameplay.

[Xaine]

Now all we got to do is get the ttk down to something reasonable in order to promote actual 'fighting' rather than 'dying, respawning and running some more' gameplay.

Something else that is far more 'Battlefield' than 'Planetside' ;)

[VaderShake]

As a long time BF vet I think the gunplay they are going for is battlefield style but the meta game will be Planetside. We are still playing a beta, and really how diverse can you make a massive online FPS so it does not incorpoerate some of the same concepts you see in other FPS games?

I think too many people are judging to early before the meta game is complete.

[Valcron]

This game doesn't deserve the name of Planetside 2, because it's not even remotely close to it.

[Shenyen]

Where is the free-form inventory

Gone back to 2003, where it belongs.

Having to open the inventory, click and drag the hacking tool into the pistol/tool-slot of the infiltrator suit or rearranging the placement of stuff in the inventory to get some more room for a grenade - that sucked!

I'm playing a first-person-shooter - not Tetris!

[Zulthus]

Gone back to 2003, where it belongs.

Having to open the inventory, click and drag the hacking tool into the pistol/tool-slot of the infiltrator suit or rearranging the placement of stuff in the inventory to get some more room for a grenade - that sucked!

I'm playing a first-person-shooter - not Tetris!

Because IT'S SO HARD TO DO, right?

And it's absolutely wonderful being locked into a class and not being able to customize a thing about it... so MODERN! LOVE IT!

[VonLipwig]

Unfortunately I never played PS1, but I must say that I recognise some gameplay elements from BF2142 in there, and the gunplay is also quite reminiscent of BF3 at times. TTK is slightly lower in BF, and in some instances I think it should be higher in PS2 but not by too much. Don't want to have to empty a whole clip into someone just to drop him. ;)


But yeah, I can't compare since I am not intimately familiar with PS1, but PS2 certainly has some BF elements to it. I personally don't mind this too much when it comes to BF2142 elements, since that was by far a better game than BF3. I do think that PS2 offers a great deal more teamwork potential and the metagame that will undoubtedly emerge should be very interesting indeed! I'm looking forward to that. :)

[Shenyen]

@Zulthus

Because it is tedious, error-prone (clicked off target, now the wrong item sticks to the cursor and has to be placed into the inventory again, before you can continue moving the intended item) and totally unnecessary for a class-free game.

Infiltrators had to switch weapons by hand not because it was the only way to add an open and customizable character system, but because it was easier to be balanced that way, so that infiltrators couldn't spam grenades and shoot pistols.

They could have also been selected simply by the buttons on the keyboard, multiple weapons on the same button were a possibility in the 90s, Max Payne had at least three different weapons on each of the number-buttons (pistol, dual pistol, desert eagle, dual desert eagle) - you didn't have to open an inventory and drag and drop weapons to the weapon slot.

Do you really want to have to drag a grenade into your weapon slot, throw it and drag the primary weapon back into the slot?


Also, please remember that this game has to attract a large audience to make a profit.

Using game mechanics that were already outdated when Planetside 1 was released (Hell, even Doom 1 allowed to switch your weapons with the press of a button, without the need to juggle icons in your inventory) won't help Planetside 2 becoming a success.

And if it doesn't become a success, the servers will become empty, the improvement of the game will be tuned down (which also means that the game won't be patched to become more like Planetside 1 over time, it will just stop to be improved completely), nobody at SOE will have the courage to ask Smedley for money to create a sequel to that game that was ahead of it's time in the first incarnation and that crashed and burned in its second - Planetside 3 will never happen!

So you have to decide if you want a game that is 50% Planetside and 50% Battlefield, or a game that is 80% Planetside and 20% Battlefield - but which will be shut down by 2013.

[PredatorFour]

@Zulthus

Because it is tedious, error-prone (clicked off target, now the wrong item sticks to the cursor and has to be placed into the inventory again, before you can continue moving the intended item) and totally unnecessary for a class-free game.

Infiltrators had to switch weapons by hand not because it was the only way to add an open and customizable character system, but because it was easier to be balanced that way, so that infiltrators couldn't spam grenades and shoot pistols.

They could have also been selected simply by the buttons on the keyboard, multiple weapons on the same button were a possibility in the 90s, Max Payne had at least three different weapons on each of the number-buttons (pistol, dual pistol, desert eagle, dual desert eagle) - you didn't have to open an inventory and drag and drop weapons to the weapon slot.

Do you really want to have to drag a grenade into your weapon slot, throw it and drag the primary weapon back into the slot?


Also, please remember that this game has to attract a large audience to make a profit.

Using game mechanics that were already outdated when Planetside 1 was released (Hell, even Doom 1 allowed to switch your weapons with the press of a button, without the need to juggle icons in your inventory) won't help Planetside 2 becoming a success.

And if it doesn't become a success, the servers will become empty, the improvement of the game will be tuned down (which also means that the game won't be patched to become more like Planetside 1 over time, it will just stop to be improved completely), nobody at SOE will have the courage to ask Smedley for money to create a sequel to that game that was ahead of it's time in the first incarnation and that crashed and burned in its second - Planetside 3 will never happen!

So you have to decide if you want a game that is 50% Planetside and 50% Battlefield, or a game that is 80% Planetside and 20% Battlefield - but which will be shut down by 2013.

Mate i have to agree with zulthus, if you can`t find the time as infiltrator to stop/hide and switch weapons you just aint worth your salt as an infil. Having to `play tetris` is better than having to play battlefield.

[Shenyen]

Rearranging stuff on a grid is not the major feature of a FPS, it isn't even a major feature in a RPG oder Hack&Slay.

You don't play Morrowind oder Skyrim to move around items in your inventory, you play it because of story, combat and graphics.
The inventory of a role-playing game is not an element of the gameplay, but a mere tool to make the gameplay (which often involves a high number of items) manageable.

Even in Diablo 3, the main goal ist not to move around stuff in the inventory, but to kill groups of champions with said stuff.
Using your inventory is a bigger part of the game than in Skyrim, but again, you don't play for the inventory, but for the rest of the game.

Standing still before each kill, juggling around stuff in the inventory, doesn't improve the experience one has with the game, it is just a timesink.

Even many MMORPGs (which are games that like Diablo depend a lot on inventory) have gotten rid of juggling items.

In Dark Age of Camelot (2002) you had to poison your blades via inventory as an infiltrator.

Some years later, you clicked a button and your equipped weapons were automatically poisoned.

Changing weapons?

At first, juggling items in the inventory - a few years later (which was still half a decade ago!), click the icon in your hotbar to switch weapons or armour.

Activate Items in your inventory? Right-click and push a button or even type "/use"...

A few years later - press a button on the hotbar.

The games which depended much more on handling the inventory than Planetside got rid of that stuff more than five years ago because developers learned that it sucks, so why is it unspeakable to do the same to a game which was a different and much more action-oriented game from the beginning?

[Zulthus]

Rearranging stuff on a grid is not the major feature of a FPS, it isn't even a major feature in a RPG oder Hack&Slay.

I know, I know, every FPS has to conform to the exact same formula else it is a boring waste of time. That's what people have come to.

You don't play Morrowind oder Skyrim to move around items in your inventory, you play it because of story, combat and graphics.
The inventory of a role-playing game is not an element of the gameplay, but a mere tool to make the gameplay (which often involves a high number of items) manageable.

And you play Planetside for the massive combat and teamwork, not to move stuff around in your inventory. What's your point here?

Even in Diablo 3, the main goal ist not to move around stuff in the inventory, but to kill groups of champions with said stuff.
Using your inventory is a bigger part of the game than in Skyrim, but again, you don't play for the inventory, but for the rest of the game.

Okay... the main goal still isn't to move stuff around in your inventory, but to kill groups of players with your guns... still don't see your point...

Standing still before each kill, juggling around stuff in the inventory, doesn't improve the experience one has with the game, it is just a timesink.

Nobody ever stands still for more than 2 seconds to swap out a grenade or whatever, let alone before each kill? Where did that assumption come from? The time you spend in your inventory window after you set up your favorites is so miniscule that it's irrelevant.

Even many MMORPGs (which are games that like Diablo depend a lot on inventory) have gotten rid of juggling items.

Cool, I guess. Good for them.

In Dark Age of Camelot (2002) you had to poison your blades via inventory as an infiltrator.

Ahh, I miss that game... so much more story and complexity to it than WoW... TONS more fun... why can't game companies make games like that anymore?

Some years later, you clicked a button and your equipped weapons were automatically poisoned.

That sucks.

Changing weapons?

At first, juggling items in the inventory - a few years later (which was still half a decade ago!), click the icon in your hotbar to switch weapons or armour.

Activate Items in your inventory? Right-click and push a button or even type "/use"...

A few years later - press a button on the hotbar.

The games which depended much more on handling the inventory than Planetside got rid of that stuff more than five years ago because developers learned that it sucks, so why is it unspeakable to do the same to a game which was a different and much more action-oriented game from the beginning?

It's the epitome of laziness when one says, "GOSH, I REALLY don't want to lift my finger to open my inventory window, I'd rather just press a button and they do all of the hard work for me".

Really now. Do you honestly like being locked into classes with certain weapons more than a freeform inventory? You can't even change how much ammo you can carry. If BF3's or PS2's inventory is anything, it's a step down just to make it easier for people who don't have a 5 second attention span to make their own loadout.



You are completely blowing the inventory out of proportion. It didn't take more than half a second to open your inventory and put a grenade in your belt. It sounds like you didn't know it, but right clicking instantly moved whatever you clicked into your main slots.

[Figment]

Gone back to 2003, where it belongs.

Having to open the inventory, click and drag the hacking tool into the pistol/tool-slot of the infiltrator suit or rearranging the placement of stuff in the inventory to get some more room for a grenade - that sucked!

I'm playing a first-person-shooter - not Tetris!

Oh my, that is like... Sooo much worse than having to open the main menu, go to the classes setup page, pick the appropriate class, click custom loadout 1, click on the gun, click on the gun again to go to the submenu, then pick the right setup for this fight by browsing through three tabs with images that only describ what they are by hovering over them, then click back, then click back again, then click the grenade, purchase individual grenades, then click on special ability, get the grenade belt for one more grenade, then click the back button. Then click the pistol and the pistol in its submenu again to change the pistol by again going through the various tabs.

All that under the presumption you got it all certed already. Including the basis like EMP grenades.

Oh wait, you still have to go to the special item and suit options and do it all again, because you didn't realise your shield type was wrong or disabled due to carrying one or two grenades more... Maybe change apearance too? When done, press respawn, deploy or resupply.

Then realise the battle is already over or you need another class now; time to do it all again!



Yes, we gained so much from not having to press "I" and right-click to switch basic gear anymore or using scroll and three tabs at an equipment terminal. And then never being able to adapt to any situation anymore. In fact, you said click and drag... You realise double clicking and right clicking sped that up, right?


Let's face it, PS1 had a much simpler, intuitive, flexible, clear and thus easier and better interface. Give me 'Tetris' any day.

[Zulthus]

Oh my, that is like... Sooo much worse than having to open the main menu, go to the classes setup page, pick the appropriate class, click custom loadout 1, click on the gun, click on the gun again to go to the submenu, then pick the right setup for this fight by browsing through three tabs with images that only describ what they are by hovering over them, then click back, then click back again, then click the grenade, purchase individual grenades, then click on special ability, get the grenade belt for one more grenade, then click the back button. Then click the pistol and the pistol in its submenu again to change the pistol by again going through the various tabs.

All that under the presumption you got it all certed already. Including the basis like EMP grenades.

Oh wait, you still have to go to the special item and suit options and do it all again, because you didn't realise your shield type was wrong or disabled due to carrying one or two grenades more... Maybe change apearance too? When done, press respawn, deploy or resupply.

Then realise the battle is already over or you need another class now; time to do it all again!



Yes, we gained so much from not having to press "I" and right-click to switch basic gear anymore or using scroll and three tabs at an equipment terminal. And then never being able to adapt to any situation anymore. In fact, you said click and drag... You realise double clicking and right clicking sped that up, right?


Let's face it, PS1 had a much simpler, intuitive, flexible, clear and thus easier and better interface. Give me 'Tetris' any day.

Hah... I couldn't have said it better myself

[Shenyen]

Do you honestly like being locked into classes with certain weapons more than a freeform inventory? You can't even change how much ammo you can carry.

Because the inventory management has nothing to do with the class-system.

If you had a character with Lasher, Sniper Rifle, Rocket Launcher, Healing Tool and Repair Tool, those items could also be assigned to:
Lasher (1), Sniper Rifle (1), Rocket Launcher (4), Healing Tool (3) and Repair Tool also (3).

You spawn with the Lasher in your hand, press (1) once to switch to the sniper rifle, press (3) for the healing tool, press (2) for the pistol, press (3) twice for the repair tool.

Has been done in Half-Life, Max Payne and other games.

No need for an inventory to carry more than one weapon of a certain type.

To throw a grenade - (G), if you have more types of grenades, (F) was the button you pressed in Team Fortress Classic.

If you want to restrict the player to use a limited amount of equipment in the field, make it so, that the inventory selection only appears at the equipment terminal, not in the field.

We won't see configurable characters with the ability to use skills of multiple "classes", because it is a PITA to balance and the developers want certain roles to be easy to understand. If you want to get healed, look for the dude with the white helmet.
Games with open character development have always the problem that no one knows what a certain player can do, because you don't have the time to look through his skills when you invite him to a squad/group.
Somebody saying that he's a medic could also be just a light assault player, lying to get a group, with minor medic skills.

In DAoC-terms - with the label "Cleric", you knew somebody had at least baseline heals and buffs, not sufficient for hardcore raiding, but good enough for normal grouping.
In Star Wars Galaxies, a "Combat Medic" could as well have been a "Master Dancer" and "Master Musician" and only a novice combat medic.


So, the classes are here to stay, but even with the cert-based ability-system of Planetside 1, there is no need for an actual inventory to do the things an inventory was implemented in that game.

No idea why QIX, who also produced the great Tribes 2, added an inventory with grid to Planetside.

The inventory in Tribes 2 was only necessary when at the inventory station/equipment terminal and had a certain amount of item slots you could reconfigure as you pleased.

Customizability, but without the hassle to juggle stuff around.


Oh my, that is like... Sooo much worse than having to open the main menu, go to the classes setup page, pick the appropriate class, click custom loadout 1, click on the gun, click on the gun again to go to the submenu, then pick the right setup for this fight by browsing through three tabs with images that only describ what they are by hovering over them, then click back, then click back again, then click the grenade, purchase individual grenades, then click on special ability, get the grenade belt for one more grenade, then click the back button. Then click the pistol and the pistol in its submenu again to change the pistol by again going through the various tabs.

All that under the presumption you got it all certed already.

Oh, and of course you could cert stuff in the field IN YOUR INVENTORY in Planetside 1 - except that you couldn't...

Run to the cert-terminal (sanctuary or special bases which maybe don't belong to your empire at the moment), unlearn 1 skill (the next skill you have to unlearn to free up enough cert points for something will unfortunately have to wait 6 hours (or was it 18?), wait 6 hours (optional), learn the skill you want, go to the equipment terminal, drag that stuff into your inventory, rearrange it in a nice way to leave enough room for grenades and that hacking tool...

From the moment that you have the idea to learn a new ability/chose a new weapon to the moment that you have saved that loadout, PS 1 is in no way better than PS 2, because you omitted the part where you have to cert stuff - and after that moment, changing weapons in the field is easier and less clunky.

Being clunky just to simulate depth in a game is no sign of good game design.

RTS games for example don't require skill opening menus, they require skill managing and commanding troops - keys on the keyboard, not convoluted menus.

[Figment]

Sorry shenyen, we don't need to ask someone about their roles like in stupid MMO games where people are so dependent they become completely anti social and kick players from their squads that do not use the appropriate roles for the coming raid. We also don't want a game where you wait an hour before a medic reports in so you can finish the raid boss with the exact predetermined roles nicely sorted in the group.



We are not playing some {#%{*}£<*} RPG!

Your post is completely irrelevant. You want balance between classes? Health, armour. Weapon options == same, tweak abilities in specialism to class for specific advantages and if these advantages are large, give them compensating penalties. Done. Look at agile and rexo: rexo == heavy assault. Agile == light assault. Medic and engi could be either. In terms of ttk there is no noticable difference because they are so short anyway, so why bother splitting their weapon options?

Just make an engi rep faster, place turrets and fortifications and carry more mines, let a medic heal faster and revive and setup medical supply points. Let a heavy carry an extra gun slot for faster switching and have a stronger shield. Let a light assault jetpack and moge faster. Let an infil cloak, move through shields and strip them from heavy weapons. Let a MAX carry superheavy weapons but stop them from self support and capture.

Let all classes have overlaps in some basic functionality, typically meaning reduced capacity. But at least let them have capacity!

Done! Each class is interesting, regardless of what specific weapons they get.

We are not balancing warlock VS healer, paladin or rogue here. The problem is that there are way too many RPG devs working on the class system of this game that don't understand fps balance is a lot simpler and much more flexibility demanding.

[Shenyen]

The problem is that there are way too many RPG devs working on the class system of this game that don't understand fps balance is a lot simpler and much more flexibility demanding.

So by that definition, Battlefield Bad Company 2 must have been a horrible FPS game, because medics had to use LMGs, couldn't use rocket launchers or sniper rifles.

Oh, and of course that must have been true for Team Fortress Classic, my scout was totally crippled due to a lack of flexility.

Counter-Strike? No assault rifle AND shotgun at the same time, lack of flexility, crippled game!

That leaves only the class-less games where every character can have all the weapons at the same time, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament etc...

Where flexility only meant, that weapons were only different due to the specifics of each weapon, with no differences between different characters.

Jack-of-all-trades, Master-of-whatever-you-picked-up,-because-everybody-is-the-same.

Why would you want an inventory system for that? It would just restrict flexibility in that "everybody's the same" game.

As a medic, just getting the sniper rifle wouldn't make you a good sniper, you would have to get other stuff too, like cloak, optics, ammunition, motion tracker to secure your back... at that point, your medic would have turned into the infiltrator class of PS2, only because he got skills that are necessary to fulfill that classes role.

Heavy Assault with ammo kits? Sure, why not, let's ust add a game balance nightmare to a game that still has some balancing problems that haven't been worked out yet.

The customization and to some degree flexility is in the game - but without compromising the roles that have to be fulfilled and the needs someone playing that role will have.

[Xaine]

Gone back to 2003, where it belongs.

Having to open the inventory, click and drag the hacking tool into the pistol/tool-slot of the infiltrator suit or rearranging the placement of stuff in the inventory to get some more room for a grenade - that sucked!

I'm playing a first-person-shooter - not Tetris!

I'm not suggesting that they copy and paste the system from PS1. Obviously.

There are probably a few ways to update the system. Yes?

Free form inventory in 2012 impossible? I think not.

I was referring to the more deep, interesting style of Planetside 1 that seems to have been lost in this class based, Battlefield-esque state of the game. :)

[PoisonTaco]

I think Planetside 2 stands on its own as a game. Doesn't really remind me of any other game because they can't even compare to it.

[Timealude]

I'm not suggesting that they copy and paste the system from PS1. Obviously.

There are probably a few ways to update the system. Yes?

Free form inventory in 2012 impossible? I think not.

I was referring to the more deep, interesting style of Planetside 1 that seems to have been lost in this class based, Battlefield-esque state of the game. :)

Im not understanding the deep interesting style of PS1 your talking about...I always thought the interesting part was the big battles and continental warfare...not the actual roles.

[Tatwi]

Donkey Kong.
Hong Kong.

[Figment]

Shenyen, stop putting words in my mouth. You don't get what I'm saying.


The big kicker here is IF YOU ARE CERTED. I've explained in many threads that you can enhance abilities and discern between healing and reviving, give range and other advantages to medic classes in terms of healing. But that you don't have to limit all healing to medics. Lower paced healing for instance.

You don't understand flexibility. You say you can't change loadouts in the field in Ps1, actually, you could. Not just by switching weapons from inventory, which PS2 does not allow, but by loading your vehicle trunk with other or extra gear. Often brought a Wraith with ACEs. Brought engi glue and aces in my Deli trunk, if not for me then for allies to switch gear. Did this make the ams obsolete? No, because it is limited in it's own right.

Be creative. It costs exposure outside of the vehicle, but you could. And your sniping example is a horrible example. Snipers don't need cloak. Cloakers should be limited to short range weaponry (yet no shotguns) as I indicate before, because it would overpower them in melee combat, as it does now: people don't use pistols at short range, they use sniper rifles as shotguns, or in this patch, actual shotguns. But there is no reason why a medic should have a lmg and not a sniper rifle or bazooka. Nor is there a reason that makes an infil overpowered if they get the ability to heal for a limited amount of time, limited range and while having to give up something else for that. Give me one reason that makes these combos overpowered?

Predictability is irrelevant in this game. Each weapon has an equally threatening TTK and you should not be looking too much at what the other guy has, because it's rather irrelevant, but more that you optimise your own range for your weapon and arrange for your own positioning and cover and prevent giving the other player an easy shot. Do you care what suit a sniper uses against you? Did you care in PS1 if it was a rexo or agile using a Lasher or MCG? I didn't unless I was infiltrating and even then I still always had to get my three to five shots at zero range so to me it has always been more important if they were alert or not the moment I engage them.


BF and TF etc are deathmatch games. There you do not encounter tanks and aircraft As frequently and in the numbers As you do in ps1 and PS2. If you do not understand that this change the context in which player operate too much o allow the same class setup to exist then you havn't thought about it very long. You cannot compare any of those games to the ps2 or ps1 context of large map, frequently changing environment and constantly changing threat type and level.

Yes a counterstrike player could use both a shotgun and rifle. No class in PS2 can sadly, so we can't change to a secondary weapon because the setups are too rigid to even allow that.

Why can't we have people create setups with a short range an long range carbine? Why can't we have people with a sniper and AV? Why can't we have a jetpack and AV? Why can't we have a jetpack and basic medical equipment? Not talking about reviving, just the flexibility for players to be creative.

There is no reason balance wise to prevent this. You can easily remake the suits such that they each have benefits but that you determine in what context you use them. What is imbalanced about a player carrying fifteen mines, but only one clip of ammo in a gun? Is this player unbeatable or an easy kill?


The problem with people that think in classes, is that they see teamwork as:

"I can do something, I can't do something else and need Buddy 2 in different class". In some cases, fair enough.

However. This is teamwork too:

"I can AV and so can my buddy even if he has a different class, as such we compliment each other with classes, but we also support each other in this particularly overlapping role, making us, as a group, more effective."

That isn't overpowered. Fear of making people complete jack of all trades at the same time is pointless. If you provide certification limitations (which PS2 DOES NOT, BUT SHOULD), then jack of all trades don't exist. Jacks of two or three trades, at the cost of ammo and the capacity in which they can perform that role? Absolutely fine.


Imagine this for instance: you can pick two or three out of eight support directions to specialise in, but that's it for your character. You can pick five or so weapons. You can pick three suits, three vehicle types, etc. etc. That's limiting in a different way, that prevents jacks of all trades, but allows people to be creative with their character and make a truly unique character.


Note that there is NO unique character building in PS2. NONE whatsoever. Only during the initial weeks of playing is your character unique, in that you're the only guy who has to specialise a little bit, while everyone else is generalising and everyone from the start are jacks of all trades over multiple lives AND specialists per live under the BR40 setup of PS2. You don't seem to have a problem with that, but if you can be creative and be a jack of SOME trades during ALL lives, then it's suddenly overpowered. And why? Because you can't imagine flexible limitations. Because you can't imagine what enhanced capabilities are. Some restrictions per class are fine if there are really big issues you could exploit. You could easily make it so you have ONE spot for a support device, in which you can plug anything, but putting an engi tool on a Medic class simply isn't that useful because this class would repair at a much much slower pace or would have to stop repairing sooner.

I've for example suggested in another thread to simply assign an amount of "juice space" to different suits. In which case you could bring say (random number) eight cannisters of either glue or bandages in a medic or engi suit, but only two in a jetpack, or three in a heavy, or whatever limitation you'd make. That would immediately have consequences for your choices and how well you'd perform, but at least you'd have the choice. Especially if you combine it with efficiency rates as described in the alinea above. What if the heavy can choose an ammo belt for extra ammo, or a small juice belt where he starts with none in order for him to actually make use of an extra tool? THAT is an actual trade-off consideration between specialisation and some generalisation at the cost of sustained capacity in another field. The inventory system can also relate to what type of inventory space you have.

Have you considered that sort of limitation? No. You have not. You only think in pure limitations because that's the only reason something could be an alternative to you... If the weapons are truly unique, you can easily have trade offs in terms of ammo amounts, range, accuracy, etc, to make each weapon viable in their own right. It should be up to the player to optimise their gear for the context and in doing so, it is my believe that they should limit themselves for other contexts permanently. Not like in PS2, temporarily. No, like in PS1 pre-BR40, BR20 even, permanently.

Completely pre-modeled classes are suitable for deathmatch games, not for warfare games.

[Marinealver]

http://s10.postimage.org/o82x0c015/battlefield.jpg

[Babyfark McGeez]

I'm not suggesting that they copy and paste the system from PS1. Obviously.

There are probably a few ways to update the system. Yes?

Free form inventory in 2012 impossible? I think not.

I was referring to the more deep, interesting style of Planetside 1 that seems to have been lost in this class based, Battlefield-esque state of the game. :)

This ^^^^

I could make a couple of completely different and unique loadouts to quickly switch to at a terminal for EXACTLY the situation at hand. Meatgrinder / indoor battle ahead? Go with the "only grenades" inventory. Base needs repairs? Switch to the "glue gun only" setup. Defending a tower? Grab the "Cycler + Tons of Ammo" loadout. And so on, and so on.

That made you feel prepared and "unique", PS2 feels like any other FPS, you can change your class and thus the general "playstyle", but you cannot prepare yourself for specific situations and feel like a true "special force".

[Shenyen]

If you provide certification limitations (which PS2 DOES NOT, BUT SHOULD)

Try to equip your tank with front, side and top armour...

Meatgrinder / indoor battle ahead? Go with the "only grenades" inventory.

Base needs repairs? Switch to the "glue gun only" setup.

Defending a tower? Grab the "Cycler + Tons of Ammo" loadout. And so on, and so on.

1. Combat Medic with Grenade Belt and C4

2. Engineer

3. Heavy Assault with Ammo Belt and some LMG with higher range and faster travelling ammo.

[Figment]

Try to equip your tank with front, side and top armour...
...


Are you dense? I can still use all other vehicles. There are no limitations in CERTS. Not "gimmick points", which you can get billions of over time, those aren't certpoints. PS1 is the only game with actual certpoints in the Planetside series.

Picking between vehicles, suits, skills and weapons. THAT is cert limitations. Picking between all weapons and inlocked scopes is not being presented with an actual choice that matters in combat or that makes your character unique and limited. It just changes the statistics of a weapon slightly, without blocking your access to other weapons entirely.

Have you played PlanetSide under BR20 rules? If not, you don't know what dedicated specialists are. At the time, one in twenty had certs in hacking many only could afford basic engineering, many could never use AV OR sniping OR Special Assault OR MAX units OR... Etc.

As an infil player, these were all, ALL the tools I had to work with during BR20 (max of 26 cert points):

Infil Suit [2CP]
Agile Suit [Free]
Rexo Auit [3CP] (sadly free after some years)

Ground Support (AMS/ANT/Router) [2CP]
ATV (Fury/Wraith/Bassilisk) [1CP]
Ground Transport (Deliverer/Thunderer/Sunderer) [2CP]

Basic Weapons (frag, plasma and EMP grenades, Suppressor, AMP pistol, Scatmag Pistol) [free]
Medium Assault (Sweeper, Punisher, Gauss, later ES MA pistol & Spiker) [2CP]
REK (hack tool), medkit (25 health) [free]

Engineering (Bank, nano repair kit) [3CP]
Combat Engineering (10 Spitfires, 10 Motion Sensors, 20 mines, 10 Boomers) [2CP]
Hacking (open friendly terms and lockers of hacked friendly base, hack slightly faster) [3CP]
Advanced Hacking (steal empty enemy vehicles, faster term hacking, open enemy terminals) [2CP]

That left me with four more points to spend, which I typically used on Anti-Vehicular (Phoenix, Decimator) [3CP] and either used that last point on the Switchblade [1CP] or Harasser [1CP]. When the flaklet was introduced, I had to drop AV to get some basic AA and the Rocklet. Didn't use thinker and Radiator really. In rare occasions I used a Lightning [2CP] and Sparrow MAX [2CP] instead. Most of the time though I left one cert free.

That was it. Find me one player in PS2 who has not got access to more options in the long term.

Remember that the above means in no lives in an entire evening if not years, did I have personal access to:

Lightning [2CP] + Vanguard [3CP]
Skyguard + Enforcer + Harasser [3CP]
Mosquito [3CP] or [2CP] if obtained with buggies
Reaver [2CP] on top of Mosquito, years later on top of buggies + Mosquito too
Galaxy & Lodestar & Liberator [3CP]
And if they kept the same certcount upon their introduction, I could not afford BFR (Neither GV nor FV, with AV and AA pilotweapons at 8CP total on top of the five from the Lightning and Vanguard), Phantasm [3CP], Galaxy Gunship [3CP] and Vulture (free with Lib).
Flail [2CP]

Heavy Assault (Jackhammer & Maelstrom) [4CP]
Sniping (Bolt Driver) [3CP]
Special Assault OR Anti-Vehicular [3CP] each
Sparrow AA MAX [2CP]
Falcon AV MAX [3CP]
Scattershot AI MAX [3CP]
Or Uni-MAX [6CP]

Medic (heal others and self) [3CP]
Advanced Medic [2CP]

I could also not have afforded:
Fortification Engineering [3CP]
Assault Engineering [2CP]
Data Corruption [2CP]
Expert Hacking [3CP]
Or their combi certs of 4CP respectively.
Dragon & Scorpion [2CP] (sadly, free after some years)
Heavy Sniper Rifle (sadly, free after a few years)


PS2 deals in Jack of all trades. In PS1 they didn't exist until BR40, which the PS2 system is derived from. Even the medic engi ha mossie setups had weaknesses, although very popular. Yet still I regularly found we had no medics on the empire to revive nearby: Inaffordable for most people.

Note that my implants were also mostly predetermined due to my self assigned class and role: Sensor Shield, Surge and Enhanced Targeting. Only the latter could be altered, but that did impact my driving and infil roles. Usualy just For temp Dark Light too to find an infil. All that, is more teamdependent than the majority of anti-freeform can cope with.

[Conq]

Planetside 1 or Battlefield X?


Battlefield... and that is a GOOD thing.