Instant Action: Pre Launch Concerns

[Hamma]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/news-instant-action-pre-launch-concerns-2902.htm

YouTube

[Dalmaska]

this video is Private :(

[Hamma]

I have no idea why it's saying that for some people - it's playing fine for me. Must be YouTube taking a crap or something. :\

[ringring]

It's funny, it says that for me too but when I right click, copy the URL and post in a different tab to open it in Youtube itself it works.

[DSxGIIR]

I totally AGREE!...Releasing the game Nov 20 is so damn soon...there's a lot to fix and with new players coming to the game will be a huge issue if they don't know what to do.

[ringring]

I agree on the noob friendly bit.

I remember when I first joined and for a long while after I simply could not find my way around Zurvan .... it was all so so confusing.

I hope the devs have a good plan about what new players see when they first join. TBH, I hope they put it into beta and we'll test and feedback.

Despite our 'hard words' we really do want this to become a epic must play game.

[Dagron]

Yeah, those issues seem to concern everyone right now. But i must point something out about the proposed solution to the sunderer problem: I'm not sure how preventing them from deploying close to each other will make it easier for base defenders to get rid of them, because once one of them is taken out, another can just move in and take it's place (hell, chances are there is already one or two right next to it even if they aren't allowed to deploy). I think the problem isn't how many of them can deploy in an area, but how absurdly easy it is for everyone to get one.

[SturmovikDrakon]

Well... on the video tutorials bit, I did mention they should be accessible through the in-game menu. Or better yet, they should ask you if you would like to get informed about the basics when you log into the game for the first time ever

They could also pop up with a prompt if they would like to watch a tutorial anytime they approach something new, be it a large facility or a terminal

[J Baley]

It's funny, it says that for me too but when I right click, copy the URL and post in a different tab to open it in Youtube itself it works.

This worked for me too.

Good vid Hamma. I'm of the same mind. (and I have other complaints as well)

I've had more than a few friends turn away from the game because they are confused and frustrated over the lack of a tutorial or start up info. The only friends that are actively playing it right now are the ones I've sat next to and explained things as they went along.

[Timealude]

Video works now.

As for what you touched base on i agree with you on the new player experience, i have had 3 people quit the game simply because they didnt know what to do or where to go.

As far as the base defense thing i really think they need to bring those encryption timers back, they helped move the fight along, which is something I always felt planetside 1 didnt do a very good job of. I loved the long battles but they would start to become tedious and im seeing that very same problem in planetside 2 right now with them leaving those timers out.

[Crator]

Good points Hamma. Love the preface saying PS2 not like PS1 with concerns that PS1 already resolved. ;)

[Rolfski]

Better then Totalbiscuits critique because it addresses a vital issue many PS1 vets don't seem to care about: making PS a commercial success.

[RobUK]

The most frustrating thing about PS2 right now is that you can almost taste the potential it has. It's frustrating because when things fall into place, and the game works as intended, it's an engrossing time sink that eats up the hours just like PS1 did.

A good example being that the best thing that can happen to the TR on Indar is to get pushed right back to the foothold warpgate. Everybody is then forced to push out together to Camp Waterson and then usually on to Mao Tech Plant. It's huge fun and highly reminiscent of the original game. It's almost like having the Lattice back.

From then on though things tend to go down the pan as various groups zerg off in different directions and what was a huge battle quickly dilutes down to loads of uninteresting skirmishes with no real shape to the frontline.

One of the things that I miss most is Command Chat. Annoying as it could be at times, it's where we looked for direction and battle flow instructions. I hate the current text based communication system. The way it quickly fades and is gone makes it seem like it's only there grudgingly. Like many other things in the game it encourages the lone wolf mentality. I often feel lonely in this game, even when in a squad.

Most of my play time in Planetside 2 starts off OK, but pretty much always ends up with me asking myself "Why? Why are we doing this? Why are we heading off to this base? What purpose is there in taking it? Why bother defending it? What's everyone else doing? Where are they going?" After about an hour I'm fatigued with it all and I log out. I can't abide the constant zerging around in circles.

Hopefully these things will be addressed in the future. I feel more positive about PS2 when I hear influential people like TB and Hamma voicing pretty much the same concerns as the rest of us. I often feel bad about giving negative feedback about PS2. The devs are such nice people. Higby especially comes across really well and his obvious enthusiasm and energy for the game is infectious.

But, like other people, I want the game to succeed and I sometimes get a little over zealous with my feedback and end up regretting saying anything at all. I hope it all works out though. I will support the game with what is currently my PS1 subscription, and I will use the item shop a lot as well. Hopefully our continued support will encourage the guys to keep on developing PS2 into the game that we all want it to be.

[Kail]

Good video! I know the first time I logged in to the beta, even with a PS1 background I had no idea what to do in the new facilities (the first time I was ever at a biolab, I just ran around outside for 15min and then left since I couldn't get in).

Personally I think something like the introduction in Assassin's Creed would be really nice - just to make the character interact with generators, capture points, etc.

[Cosmical]

Like the video.

In my opinion to boost the initial new player experience, there should be a more prominent outfit advertising system, i.e. it should even be a MAIN terminal in the sanctuaries infront of you, as soon as you log. The game is meant to be played with a large group of organized people, running with the Zerg just doesn't do it justice, infact ide go as far to say its borderline unplayable.

There should be a screen that broadcasts "Here's Azure Twilight, they want you to fight with them and join them." There could be a rookie status given to you for a day. While you are allowed to join their squads, then the outfit can command you and promote you as they see fit. Maybe even automatically promotes you, after you have completed so many of the outfits objectives, or run with them for soo long.

Any outfit would be glad of the man power, and you learn the game alot quicker with helpful outfits who would be willing to herd the noobs.

[Laraza]

Yeah, Hamma, I think you touch on a few key deeper design issues.

Basically, the game lacks a convergence model. PvP design should reward activity, not avoidance. This means that "the carrot" should be where the fun is: in the fight. In order to obtain this you need to provide a convergence, build a critical mass of players, and then put the carrot right there. The carrot should be proportional to the activity. No activity = no carrot.

Right now, what you have is a lot of running around killing other players mindlessly and blowing things up. If you asked players who were leading the highly organized outfits with large numbers, my guess is that you would get overall strategies based on their play-style, not on the objectives of the game. For me, this points out that all players are a bit lost and confused as to what to do in a given moment, not just new players. At any point in the game a player can ask and answer: "What am I supposed to be doing?" Getting kills and power-ups. The opportunity cost isn't much of a factor.

The mission system, most elements of the meta game - they aren't in game yet. But they probably should have been one of the first things put in the game - directing and organizing the battle.

[Captain1nsaneo]

Tutorial problem. Tutor Tutor Tutorial. Problem. Prob Prob Tutorial. TUTORIAL TUTORIAL! Problem. Orial prob. Tut Prob orial...

Tutorial problem.

[Rago]

Hamma, I love you :love::p

The Thing is There should be a Tutorial "InGame" Or a Tutorial Exlpain Game Area.

I wish for more Infantry battles at Bases, too.
To be Honest My Playstyle is different from Yours i dont have a Problem Defending Areas for Houres, but what happens if certed all the Stuff ? Right then i galaxy Hotdrop for Bases,..And this is the Point when we get in the same Boat.


As they Said they will add the Sunders to Every Terminal i disliked the Idea, why dont they Mix the Pad ups for Random, or built a "ITEM" can only be Taken with specific obstacles(Like no Lightning no Aircraft.) that needs to be Taken from the Warpgate trough a Connected Line, to Upgrade a Vehilcle Terminal ? Make it Expensive whatever, Maybe that it lasts 30 Minutes or similar.Please someone suggest this tread to the Devs ;)
There a Many things that can be Done, Energy Lines ?

I dont say we need a Energy Transport Warpgate like ps1.But Still

What is Fun, and what is Important

[ringring]

Yeah, Hamma, I think you touch on a few key deeper design issues.

Basically, the game lacks a convergence model. PvP design should reward activity, not avoidance. This means that "the carrot" should be where the fun is: in the fight. In order to obtain this you need to provide a convergence, build a critical mass of players, and then put the carrot right there. The carrot should be proportional to the activity. No activity = no carrot.

Right now, what you have is a lot of running around killing other players mindlessly and blowing things up. If you asked players who were leading the highly organized outfits with large numbers, my guess is that you would get overall strategies based on their play-style, not on the objectives of the game. For me, this points out that all players are a bit lost and confused as to what to do in a given moment, not just new players. At any point in the game a player can ask and answer: "What am I supposed to be doing?" Getting kills and power-ups. The opportunity cost isn't much of a factor.

The mission system, most elements of the meta game - they aren't in game yet. But they probably should have been one of the first things put in the game - directing and organizing the battle.

The thing about the mission system, which has always made me sceptical, is who decides what missions go there. Would it simply be a case of if you cert enough points you can create missions? What's to stop people placing trolling missions, what's to stop several people placing missions that effectively add up to 'attack everywhere'. What to stop counter-missioning.

Nope, I've decided that missions are nothing more than a glorified waypointing system for the benefit of new players.

What we really need is cr5 chat again.

[Qwan]

Well maybe they can go back to pop up instructions. When users go to a terminal for the first time they can get a pop up window explaning what can be done at this terminal. Also when using the info window, by putting the mouse over each tab at the bottom of the screen pop up windows can be used. I mean I agree with alot of the things being said by hamma, there should be a way to show first time players how to nav threw the screens and how to move to the game. When I bought PS1 it came with a instructional booklet. Maybe making a web page with instructions will help.

[ringring]

Well maybe they can go back to pop up instructions. When users go to a terminal for the first time they can get a pop up window explaning what can be done at this terminal. Also when using the info window, by putting the mouse over each tab at the bottom of the screen pop up windows can be used. I mean I agree with alot of the things being said by hamma, there should be a way to show first time players how to nav threw the screens and how to move to the game. When I bought PS1 it came with a instructional booklet. Maybe making a web page with instructions will help.
Apparently they are making video instructionals.

[Hamma]

Thanks guys.

Honestly for me this is the single biggest issue in the game. Reason being is that if nobody bothers to play it and give it a shot we all end up with nobody to play with.

They are indeed making basic tutorial videos and per some Tweets yesterday they are likely playing someone to do it. This still does not solve the problem. People will skip the videos or ignore them while they are patching. This is not money well spent in my opinion.
Tutorial popup messages will not work. People close them just as fast as they pop up without reading them has been proven in testing.
CR5 or Commander chat is not the solution either players are probably even less likley to listen to WTFPWNZ23 in Global than a tutorial popup :lol:


A single defined and structured mission system solves all these problems. As a player logs in they are presented with a list of missions they can accept. Keep in mind some of these missions are auto generated based on hot spots (Allatum Bio Lab is under attack! Help defend) and some are player generated (Need a Sunderer Here). Spawn points could even be color coded or marked with priority in your mission area. Bonus experience is then awarded when you successfully defend Allatum or deliver a Sunderer.

I've asked the dev team about the mission system a bunch of times in the past 9 months as you guys have seen. Each time they talked about it I really thought we were moving in the right direction. In my opinion it really is the perfect solution to getting new players into the fight AND getting players who don't really care about the overall meta game into a place where they can help without even realizing it.

If this game launches with video tutorials and popups we are doomed to face the same issues as PS1. Video tutorials should cover the middle and higher ground and be player created content. If someone plays for a few weeks they will then want to learn more and only at that point do they seek out training videos.

[Hyncharas]

While I suspect everybody has their thoughts on how close the launch window is, I am glad we still have an Open-Door Development policy in place, to make sure player feedback is taken to heart.

[Dagron]

Well said, Hamma.

[Tamas]

Definitively agree.

Would love to get a commander. Maybe even divide the map into "theaters of war" with multiple commanders.

Looking back at BF2 - the simple thing like the command rose gave randoms teamwork/coordination along with the commander. It's a CRUCIAL feature that DICE gave the middle finger in BF3 (the implemented one still sucks).

The game NEEDS coordination and orders on a strategic and tactical scale. Squad leaders can do the tactical tole (if people join or even know that they can join) squads.

I would say:
1) Vote system to elect faction commanders (or any type of selection based on something more than BR)
2) Commanders can issue orders to all squads/outfits in a given territory.
3) The commander may choose to display visual requests for every player to see on the map (attack/defend/scout) (like a sword for attack, shield to defend etc).
4) Commanders see full view of where allied forces and "spotted" enemies are.

This is specifically relevant for this game - some players might be more skilled, but tactics/strategy can win the battles. We need an effective way to see what is going on the map, where help is needed, where an attack if occurring. Like TB said in his critical video - instant action jumping into a base where there is only 1 enemy sucks.

Any form of where help is needed would be A+ from me. Now I just grab a fighter and fly over nearby posts and if I get blasted by ton of AA I can hopefully respawn near ad help out.

We need some tools to help coordinate players (outside outfits), I think this might end up being the reason why solo players will leave.

[SeanNewBoy]

Perhaps they could have console in the warpgate spawn room. You could get tutorials, outfit ads, and missions. A catch all social hub console.

[Hamma]

A voting component would not work, large Outfits would always be in control of what was happening.

And sadly anything that requires a player to seek out training will not work. It has to be something that is simple and introduces new players to specific tasks they can perform within the game world. It will not only get boots on the ground but it will introduce players into the PlanetSide world and how to play by actually playing and seeing how the battles form.

[Ooflakie]

Maybe this has been said before... apologies if so...

I liked the post earlier in the thread about the outfit terminal or even a dedicated page in the menu where outfits get to sell themselves.

Then take that idea and build upon it where you apply to the outfit (get accepted as an initiate automatically) and the outfit has set up tutorials built on the way they play. This could be done with a mission tree that outfit leaders place and you can post more than one. They get checked off with completion statistics so outfits can review.

New players that complete these for the outfits they want to be involved in and are then reviewed and offered an invite. Players can complete more than one outfit's "application (tutorial)" and then they are free to decide who to join once they receive the invite from the outfits they completed the tutorials for.

They will get additional XP for completing these and any outfit has the choice to wave the initiation protocol (tutorial).

It could be as simple as go to an air equipment terminal in sanctuary on Indar, purchase an empire specific aircraft, fly to the closest biolab and repair / interact with a generator. The Devs could program tooltips and explanations for each of the things that the new person interacts with. But this mission is put together by dragging and dropping each component such as: 1. go to a(n) "select" terminal 2. purchase "select" 3. Location "waypoint coordinates" 4. Repair "select" (with "select" being a drop down menu). Build this out and the new person has an understanding of the game that the outfit can now build on.

Dunno if this makes sense at all but in my head it does. Very similar to starcraft's old mission builder.

The stats for how many kills, how long it took, and what equipment they used as well as the K/D can all be looked at by the outfits.

This would be the first thing the game pushes when you log in the first time as it explains that this is a team based blah blah blah...

Thoughts?

[blbeta]

I would love the mission system. I too believe it would be a great resource.

I lieu of that, how about a big ass terminal at the warp gates with big ass text above it. Some statement about how play the game. In the terminal could be a nice table of contents that play videos.

I too am a long time PS1 vet and was completely confused by all the menus and what to do at the bases. I also had the experience that someone else mentioned at the Bio Lab. I couldn't get in, so I left.

I have made some comments about the game bitching about what was missing. Now that I have put a lot more time into it I like it a lot. The performance patches have helped a lot here.

New Player Experience is huge. If I was lost as a PS1 vet, I can't imagine what others might feel.

Spawn points don't bother me currently, but I am in favor of the deployment restriction areas.

[Hamma]

I think TotalBiscuit mentioned it, but it would be nice if spawn points were color coded when you had missions in the area. Then again, that would require a mission system ;)

[Dagron]

I really loved the idea of a complex mission system, it'll be a shame if they don't work on that. But even if they decide not to, it'd be great if they at least used missions to get newbies used to the game instead of videos or popups telling people what is what (everyone just blows through those anyway, even if they get some bonus for watching they just hit play and go watch TV instead). All MMOs i played had some kind of introduction area (some instanced, some in the open world) where newbies got to learn all the basics, from "how do i open the map" to "how do i shoot/set on fire/stab someone with weapon/spell/ability XYZ" to why their faction hated the others.
I think there should be some kind of boot camp in the warpgate/sanctuary (wherever people first spawned) where they got to go through a quick story by following a small mission chain (maybe ending with a mission to join a squad of more experienced players and head out into the war). It'd help newbies get the hang of the interface, how to find action, etc and it would give them a few certs so they can start out with a couple of scopes or w/e they like.

Also, as long as we're on the subject, i really like the idea of outfits offering missions to people other than their members. It would be great if they could set up different categories other than just for candidates trying out for the outfit. For example i'd love it if there were outfit to outfit mission offers, be them just a "join us attacking the tech plant" or "attack any number of territories around the bio lab as we try to take it" or just "simultaneously fly our troops to territories A, B and C". That way a big outfit could help nudge their faction into the course of action they want and smaller outfits could get some extra XP while also getting a quick way to decide what to do next.

[DirtyBird]

Having played with a few new players it is so obvious they need something in game to help them get going.
I would have thought SOE would have already had this well thought out by now.
We need new players to make this game work, we have to have a large player base that will stick with the game for years to come.
Tutorials need to be part of the game, accessible in game and out. Not just some random links to youtube as the sole method for people to be taught the basics.

Even if they address this problem there will still be those that cbf learning via that method and just want to get into it and pick it up along the way.
So information to access the action needs to be accurate.
Perhaps even the Hotspots info is one of the first things that needs to be explained in game as well.
What does Low Activity, Base Infiltrated or Compromised etc actually mean.
Explain the key points at a base.
How do captures work.
If they die what are their spawn options.
And the way its been at some warp gates, who the bad guy is.

Maybe even reward people with some of cert points after completing missions or watching in game tutorials. Kinda like how an MMO might reward you with a free bag or something after doing those first story lines.

[Hamma]

Agreed it's a bit disheartening that all we know is coming is a simple tutorial system and some YouTube videos.

[boogsugar]

Hello

I just started in the beta 2 days ago. I consider myself fairly competent and a quick study. I can say that I am totally lost in PS2.

I have done a ton of reading and that is helping quite a lot. That is how I found this site. However, I am still fairly lost. It is very hard for me to understand whats going on when looking at the map and how to actually capture anything.

I am slowly figuring it out because I want to love this game. But most of new players are not going to put that in kind of effort. They are going to log in, run around for an hour, quit, and then go flame the game on w/e forum they use.

The game is then going to have bad word of mouth, people wont give it a shot who would have and things spiral downward. That is my fear.

Anyway, just some feedback from a noob who never played PS1 who just started playing.

[Rago]

Yeah they really should do something, not as extreme as it was in Bulletstorm for Example, but still,

How about a Ingame Help system that can be turned on and off ?
Should not be to hard to realize.

[Babyfark McGeez]

I gotta say i really liked the way PS1 helped and rewarded new players.
You were awarded xp for checking new things out, so when i was new back in...god knows when that was...i just tried out everything that was interactive.
Yes, i only did it because i wanted the xp, BUT at the same time i also learned alot about the things in the game.
A similar system would do wonders here. Who would want to watch a bunch of videos? Reward new people for learning the mechanics and tools.

[Rolfski]

LevelCap gaming just released his thoughts on beta as well, which are in similar line as Hamma's: More focus is needed on improving casual play as casual play and outfit play can go along very well with each other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG6sxdeWYtE

[Graywolves]

They should have like a nanite systems training simulator pre-character creation for new accounts. Of course make it skippable but just have something so new players can figure out how to use the map and get to battles.

Just figuring out where to go and how to get there is probably the biggest thing. If I knew absolutely nothing about Planetside and spawned in the Warpgate as FNGscrub1 I'd probably be like "wow this is cool... Where do I go?"

If he's lucky someone will have a Galaxy sitting there telling people to load up. Even then it's still a little confusing and maybe overwhelming for him.

[Hamma]

LevelCap gaming just released his thoughts on beta as well, which are in similar line as Hamma's: More focus is needed on improving casual play as casual play and outfit play can go along very well with each other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG6sxdeWYtE

The irony in this entire debate is the huge outfits want it their way. If they do in fact get their way they will un-intentionally make it so this game will not be a success over time. If new players don't come in and play without leaving the game will not be a success.

PlanetSide 1 Veterans and Huge Outfits need to realize there is room for Casual and Large Organized Operations in PlanetSide 2.

[Crator]

Casual play, which includes solo as well a PUG, should be very valid. And it is. The problem is the visual queues and instructions that new players need to identify where to go, and how to get there. And what to do when they get there. I heard something about a VR training area, that will be good. Go over different roles, weapons, and vehicles on what they can do. Something on the UI (toggable) when you first enter a continent that explains things about capture points and the map would be good as well.

[Sifer2]

Could barely concentrate on the video once how saw how OP the Vanu Sniper looks. Jeez they must have buffed that thing a lot since I last tried it out a few weeks back. Looks like there is zero sway now an pin point accuracy. Guess outdoor combat was fine while it lasted but we will back to Sniper spam soon lol.

Anyway I agree new players need a bit of direction. Even the original game was better off in its beta than this since it at least had the VR training so you could try out weapons. Stuff like this is the vital polish than PS2 needs but wont get because they are rushing this out the door for the holiday season. I almost don't see what the point is of listing concerns anymore. NONE of what we tell them at this point is going to make it in by release. They have to be in feature lockdown by this point an crunching hard to get in Amerish an fix some of the major known issues. The build we get next week is probably for the most part going to be the near final version. They will just use us to test it for crashes an fix it any that pop up, and then the game will come out.

[Beerbeer]

Hello

I just started in the beta 2 days ago. I consider myself fairly competent and a quick study. I can say that I am totally lost in PS2.

I have done a ton of reading and that is helping quite a lot. That is how I found this site. However, I am still fairly lost. It is very hard for me to understand whats going on when looking at the map and how to actually capture anything.

I am slowly figuring it out because I want to love this game. But most of new players are not going to put that in kind of effort. They are going to log in, run around for an hour, quit, and then go flame the game on w/e forum they use.

The game is then going to have bad word of mouth, people wont give it a shot who would have and things spiral downward. That is my fear.

Anyway, just some feedback from a noob who never played PS1 who just started playing.


I can empathize. I think the devs had good intentions but overlooked some obvious things in terms of easing people into the game.

The simple stuff like VR training rooms, more intuitive interface, simpler menu and map system and easy to use and understand cert system. Even for me, it was all overwhelming at first.

Nothing is explained very well, the cert system especially. A few simple words, like "does not work with X," or, "can only use one at a time," or, "to activate press X." It amazes me how sloppy some of the basic stuff is, hopefully they clean it up before launch.

The map, spawning, instant action and redeployments, while great tools, are difficult to comprehend at first and NOT apparent at all. This could have been done much more simply. Simple doesn't mean a loss in functionality, just a much more intuitive and faster way to achieve something. The "deployments" need help and have to be made much more apparent to the new person playing.

Heck, all of it is overwhelming, yet the ironic thing is that they thought by simply cutting character customization would help with the initial hump. If anything, they could have bumped character customization abilities, provided they simplified everything else. Deep character customization is a good hook to get people playing a long time. A sloppy and complex interface is fatiguing and turns people off.