1 SC = 1 cert ?

[Athanasios]

it's common place that we have 0 clue of what the SC value will be for PS2... and of course this "triple Sunday bargain" sounds cool, but what is the point in buying more SC if i can unlock whatever i want with 4000 SC and still have some left?

i tried to make some rough estimations about the SC : certs rate, here's what i came up with (which might be not even close to reality, but anyway :D)

IF they design the system so that with 2000 SC (half of Alpha's pack) you can max out any vehicle (by maximising i mean certifying a single system for each category - utility, defensive etc), and assuming that each maximisation needs 480 certs, then we'll need about 2400 certs. So, the rate in this case is 1.2

with the same concept, if we need 1k SC for a maxed out vehicle, then the rate becomes 2.4, for 2.4k it's 1:1 and so on


Anyway, i'll stick to my Alpha SC, i'm not buying something without knowing its buying power.

[maradine]

1 to 1 seems too cheap at first glance. 4000 cert points would put me into almost everything I want from BR1. That's a good set of MBT guns with 2x optics each, rockets, a nice libby payload, and a bunch of infantry gear. I'm not sure I'd ever toss money into it again. Maybe I'm non-typical?

[xuur]

Im thinking moreso you'll likely be able to fully (or nearly so) enable one class (vs vehicle) as a baseline target (and with that of course be able to spread it around as you would see fit to vehicles etc instead).

still...all speculation at this point. I can sure envision that 4k being vanished pretty quickly just for the leg up on day one.

my personal thought is that I'll sit on the SC for awhile until things appear to be sorted a little better economy-wise to ensure better bang for the buck rather than spend it and find out an economic tweak a month in makes what I did frustratingly useless.

[PoisonTaco]

Possible. The more expensive items will likely be cosmetic anyways.

[MrBloodworth]

Im not following how Station cash = Certs? The only things you can buy with station cash are new weapons variant and cosmetics. Not scopes, sights, nano armor, tank side armor etc..

[Athanasios]

my personal thought is that I'll sit on the SC for awhile until things appear to be sorted a little better economy-wise to ensure better bang for the buck rather than spend it and find out an economic tweak a month in makes what I did frustratingly useless.
this is my initial thought as well, stay away from buying anything for about 1 month and see how they experiment with the economy

BUT, even if i'd buy something day 1, and then they reduce that price, then i would expect to refund me the SC. I'm not saying if they reduce prices 6 months post-launch, but there should be a minimum between tweaking so that the customer doesn't feel cheated.

[Ruffdog]

Im not following how Station cash = Certs? The only things you can buy with station cash are new weapons variant and cosmetics. Not scopes, sights, nano armor, tank side armor etc..

Certs for the "depot" page I think he means. You'll still have to graft your way through the cert tree to get the optics, side armor. Taking Auraxium off the table has given certs dual significance

[EVILPIG]

The possibility of buying certs for SC has been on the table for a long, long time. There are mixed opinions about it, mostly those who would never spend a dime on the game oppose it vs. those willing to invest. Either way, yes, it would unlock certs for you earlier than those who "earn" them, but you're not going to have anything available to you that anyone else could not have eventually anyways, so why not let SOE get the money? The game has to be paid for some way and cosmetics alone won't do it.

[DirtyBird]

When they were tweaking Auraxium I thought it would end up one for one with SC but now thats gone there is no way SC is going one for one with Certs.

I dont think you will be able to buy certs, your SC is for boosters and cosmetics.

[xuur]

I would be a quite disappointed if the SC that came with the Alpha could only buy temp boosters and cosmetics (which I honestly have no interest in).

[Athanasios]

I would be a quite disappointed if the SC that came with the Alpha could only buy temp boosters and cosmetics (which I honestly have no interest in).
count me in too, i mean, isn't that obvious??!?

what am i supposed to do with the booster and the loverator stickers, when i have about ~1 hour now and then to play the game?

or vice versa, how am i supposed to catch up with my friends with a cosmetic sticker??

unless that booster gives me X1000 certs for 1 hour, when my friends will have that super duper S8000 Carpet bombing missile system, i'll still be with the needler -.-

[SKYeXile]

The possibility of buying certs for SC has been on the table for a long, long time. There are mixed opinions about it, mostly those who would never spend a dime on the game oppose it vs. those willing to invest. Either way, yes, it would unlock certs for you earlier than those who "earn" them, but you're not going to have anything available to you that anyone else could not have eventually anyways, so why not let SOE get the money? The game has to be paid for some way and cosmetics alone won't do it.

Yea, even so i still dont think id be for it, at the point where you can simply pay to unlock everything, then whats the point of playing? the game then does just simply look like a dash for cash and if they did let you buy certs to me the game would just feel cheap and nasty and it would probably not be a game i would want to continue playing.

[maradine]

If you wouldn't play the game after cashing in for all the unlocks, why would you play it after BR20 (or equivalent)?

[Marinealver]

Well if they did that where you can buy all your certs then the free 2 play model will all go to pay 2 win.

Can you imagine Planetside (1) if you could buy your way to Cr5 Br40?

[typhaon]

I'm kind of avoiding the SC - until we can actually see what it's worth.

ex. 4000 SC is billed as worth $40 in the Alpha Squad promo - but as of this weekend sale, I could get 4000 SC for $13.33.

So - what can I expect for SC prices? Will items priced with 100 SC = $1 or 300 SC = $1?


Also - when the SonyStudio or whatever comes online.... then what? Is that an entirely different cash market (so why get my $ stuck in SC)? Or, will it use SC? If it does... SOE will have to stop these promos... or else they'll be giving away real money.

ex. 3:1 day... spend $100 to get 30000 SC. Buy a ton of PlayerStudio crap from your friends. Friends keep 40% of the 30000 SC (12000 SC). Friends convert 12000 SC back to $ = $120. SOE = -$20 on the whole transaction :D

[maradine]

I'd imagine it would be very similar to Planetside over the last few years - mostly populated by lifers with high BR. Except some of them would have no idea what the hell they were doing.

The only recent datapoint I have is BL:R, where twenty bucks would get you all the gear you'd ever want, but you still need to produce on the battlefield to kill anything. PS2's a little different in that there are some pretty big cliffs (rockets, for instance), but that's a day's worth of dedicated play in the current beta model. Is buying a day off of your time commitment a huge advantage?

I don't have answers to these questions - we're in relatively new ground here.

[SKYeXile]

I'd imagine it would be very similar to Planetside over the last few years - mostly populated by lifers with high BR. Except some of them would have no idea what the hell they were doing.

The only recent datapoint I have is BL:R, where twenty bucks would get you all the gear you'd ever want, but you still need to produce on the battlefield to kill anything. PS2's a little different in that there are some pretty big cliffs (rockets, for instance), but that's a day's worth of dedicated play in the current beta model. Is buying a day off of your time commitment a huge advantage?

I don't have answers to these questions - we're in relatively new ground here.

Been a free to play game most of the population will infact be new players trialling the game and likely most not sticking around, not due to the games lack of quality or anything, but thats F2P, it has a high turnover of players with obviously some dedicated ones, the idea is to get heaps of people playing and trailing the game with it been F2P and afew may stick around.

[Hamma]

I'm not even sure they know the values for SC yet. :D

[SKYeXile]

I'm not even sure they know the values for SC yet. :D

I think they do, if you like at the values they're all like 420000, take away 3 zeros and you have an acceptable and reasonable cost for a gun. You people on your imperial system may not have seen this, but I have.

[EVILPIG]

Yea, even so i still dont think id be for it, at the point where you can simply pay to unlock everything, then whats the point of playing? the game then does just simply look like a dash for cash and if they did let you buy certs to me the game would just feel cheap and nasty and it would probably not be a game i would want to continue playing.


I'd say I would support cert purchases (you already will be able to buy weapons, which cost certs) because they are a good source of revenue (which is absolutely necessary) without offering overpowered weaponry that only cash can buy. I do struggle with what you said, because, I don't play this game to unlock things. I play this game to have fun through ownage and teamwork. Do I enjoy unlocking things? Absolutely, but that's not why I play. Not saying that is specifically why you play either, but you made it sound like that. At the end of the day, would a game where everyone is on completely even ground and only had certs they "earn" (I always say "earned" because boosters affect this too) be best? Probably, but the reality is the game needs to earn money to recoup costs and to continue to develop. Does it bother me that players will dump cash to buy unlocks early? No. Especially when it means avoiding having to offer "cash only" items because skins and window stickers simply won't be enough.

[Helwyr]

The confusion over buying certs comes from the removal of Auraxium, basically anything you could buy with Auraxium before can still be bought with SC, so essentially weapons. If they were to make all certs purchasable with SC that would be way too far down the Pay2win road for my liking, and I think I would walk away from this game at that point regardless of how good the rest of it turns out to be.

As to the value of station cash, yes I find it very bizarre purchasing something when you have no idea of it's value. SOE should at least put out some rough guidelines or samples and their costs.

[SKYeXile]

I'd say I would support cert purchases (you already will be able to buy weapons, which cost certs) because they are a good source of revenue (which is absolutely necessary) without offering overpowered weaponry that only cash can buy. I do struggle with what you said, because, I don't play this game to unlock things. I play this game to have fun through ownage and teamwork. Do I enjoy unlocking things? Absolutely, but that's not why I play. Not saying that is specifically why you play either, but you made it sound like that. At the end of the day, would a game where everyone is on completely even ground and only had certs they "earn" (I always say "earned" because boosters affect this too) be best? Probably, but the reality is the game needs to earn money to recoup costs and to continue to develop. Does it bother me that players will dump cash to buy unlocks early? No. Especially when it means avoiding having to offer "cash only" items because skins and window stickers simply won't be enough.

It did sound abit like that i only play for unlocks, but obviously this isnt the case. I had thought that there maybe some form of acquiring certs through SC, i certainly wouldnt put it past SOE, but i still think essentially just been able to buy everything does still make the game feel"cheap" for lack of a better word.

I know you're familiar with world of tanks, obviously they have the convert EXP button to free XP button, where they make an insane amount of cash from, while this is still a very aggressive payment model you are at least still earning that XP. If they can do something similar in Planetside 2. eg: convert ernt XP(or score...) to Certs at the cost of station cash i see it as a better alternative. Atleast the players then not paying for this service would still feel that those players have infact in some way earned the attachments etc.

Iv been playing MMO games for along time, one thing i have noticed in that time is you need a carrot or a goal to keep people playing these days, few people will continue playing games because they like the combat, people want to feel like they have accomplished something and they're competing for something. when others players can simply unlock everything i think some people will feel "cheated" out of that.

Obviously there's no problem with everybody been on even ground, but with no real individual goal, do you really believe players will stick around and PvP all day and all night? I suggest you look at guild wars 2 for the answer.

[Sifer2]

Well just to say one thing. It's WAY too late to be complaining about Pay 2 Win now. Like a year too late. I was in the camp against the game being Free 2 Play I thought it should be like Guild Wars 2 more of a Buy once an done thing.

But most were happy with it an singing F2P's praises for all the people it might bring to the game. So I learn to live with it an will indeed be stocking up on SC this weekend. I figure between this an Alpha Squad I will spend about 60 dollars on the game as if I bought it at the standard game price. And if I can't indeed immediately load myself out with tons of nice gear i'll feel ripped off. Pay 2 Win? Maybe but like I said time to complain of that has passed.

I do agree that I hope they don't allow buying of certs out right. Since it will be nice to have some things that can't just be bought. It would be stupid if you could just buy your way to CR5 for example.

[BorisBlade]

Not having ways to test out what you are buying with real money is very bad. If you get one of these weapons and it flat out sux, (and many do currently and still will after launch) then you will not be wanting to spend money again blindly being very burn shy. Not only that, but it could just turn you off to the game entirely. Honestly this problem will put a decent dent in their profits. Its just another thing that should be in for launch but the massively rushed release date just wont allow that.

Just like PS1, this game is very badly managed and its what will hurt it the most rather than even the many many many bad design issues.

[Ruffdog]

Not having ways to test out what you are buying with real money is very bad. If you get one of these weapons and it flat out sux, (and many do currently and still will after launch) then you will not be wanting to spend money again blindly being very burn shy. Not only that, but it could just turn you off to the game entirely. Honestly this problem will put a decent dent in their profits. Its just another thing that should be in for launch but the massively rushed release date just wont allow that.

Just like PS1, this game is very badly managed and its what will hurt it the most rather than even the many many many bad design issues.

We need gun rentals maybe :) A tenth of the normal cost for 1 day of play?
But yes a VR firing range cant come quick enough!

[artifice]

The possibility of buying certs for SC has been on the table for a long, long time. There are mixed opinions about it, mostly those who would never spend a dime on the game oppose it vs. those willing to invest. Either way, yes, it would unlock certs for you earlier than those who "earn" them, but you're not going to have anything available to you that anyone else could not have eventually anyways, so why not let SOE get the money? The game has to be paid for some way and cosmetics alone won't do it.

You are wrong, I have had every intention of investing in PS2 but I will refuse if this game becomes p2w.

[McFeeble]

Possible. The more expensive items will likely be cosmetic anyways.

Yeah this is what I think too, but I have to look like a zebra :D

[Mox]

1 to 1 would mean about 5 dollars for the shotgun. Sounds acceptable.

[Dragonskin]

You are wrong, I have had every intention of investing in PS2 but I will refuse if this game becomes p2w.

There is nothing currently in the store that suggests the game will be pay to win. Unless they make OP weapons that are SC only.. or cert advancement that is SC only.. then there really is no P2W available. All they offer now is shortcuts for people to bypass having to feel like they are grinding or jumping through hoops to get the weapons/skills they need to play their class effectively.

No real difference here than EA/DICE offering weapon packs that unlock specific weapon sets for classes. The people that bought those packs don't have any significant advantage over anyone else.

[Rat]

I will likely spend cash on some wep unlocks and possibly the membership, but I do hope that Cert points can not be purchased outright, like what was said earlier many people need a carrot to continue.

[MrBloodworth]

Certs for the "depot" page I think he means. You'll still have to graft your way through the cert tree to get the optics, side armor. Taking Auraxium off the table has given certs dual significance

Ok. But, that's like, two different things being lumped together.

You do not use station cash to get optics, or rail items. So, why include them at all in trying to figure out the "worth" of SC?

Side note to Devs. 5 dollars is my limit for unlocking things. I will not, pay 10$ for a gun. I'm sorry. 1-5$ is the range.

[Tatwi]

The possibility of buying certs for SC has been on the table for a long, long time. There are mixed opinions about it, mostly those who would never spend a dime on the game oppose it vs. those willing to invest. Either way, yes, it would unlock certs for you earlier than those who "earn" them, but you're not going to have anything available to you that anyone else could not have eventually anyways, so why not let SOE get the money? The game has to be paid for some way and cosmetics alone won't do it.

Can't tell you how many times I've been lynched for saying this very thing...

Cert Points = Time and Time = Money = Station Cash, so why not cut out the middle man, Time, and just sell cert points for Station Cash?

Even the worst player in universe is capable of earning a lot of Cert Points. As a result, Cert Points are not representative of someone's "skill" at playing the game. With that in mind, who cares when someone gets X amount of certs? Especially when they can already log in and just buy all the best weapons right away...

[Hamma]

I don't think there are any plans to purchase cert points outright. You will be able to buy boosters to XP that's likely the limit to what you will see.

[xuur]

this too is my thinking. Im sure the SC will still somehow translate to weapons and upgrade purchases but VERY unlikely to be direct certification. Im just awaiting some word on what and how SC 'value' will be interpreted and implemented.

I thought I understood it when it was AUX. now, Im not sure theres anything with enough meat to it to 'understand' yet.

[EVILPIG]

You are wrong, I have had every intention of investing in PS2 but I will refuse if this game becomes p2w.

Well, that's you. I said, "mostly". I never speak in absolutes unless I know something to be absolutely true.

[EVILPIG]

I don't think there are any plans to purchase cert points outright. You will be able to buy boosters to XP that's likely the limit to what you will see.

Plans? Perhaps not, but it has been a consideration since at least last Spring. I don't know if they would flat sell "certs", like bundles of 100 per say, but the ability to buy cert trees has been considered. It is effectively the same thing.

Also, I too do not see this as Pay2Win. Pay2Win to me is selling broken weapons or items for cash only. PS2 plans to offer the ability to acquire anything through certs or cash.

[Dragonskin]

Also, I too do not see this as Pay2Win. Pay2Win to me is selling broken weapons or items for cash only. PS2 plans to offer the ability to acquire anything through certs or cash.

This is what Pay 2 Win means. Selling items or abilities that grant a significant advantage over anything offered in the free portion of the game. Planetside 2 doesn't currently offer anything that is close to P2W. As long as they don't offer the BFG gun that can only be bought with station cash then we have nothing to worry about.

[EVILPIG]

This is what Pay 2 Win means. Selling items or abilities that grant a significant advantage over anything offered in the free portion of the game. Planetside 2 doesn't currently offer anything that is close to P2W. As long as they don't offer the BFG gun that can only be bought with station cash then we have nothing to worry about.

Exactly.

[Ghoest9]

I would be completely cool with SOE selling scopes and rail mounted items.

[xuur]

as long as their was the ability to do the same without paying real money through in game mechanics.

[Helwyr]

Play2Win IMO is anywhere a player can pay money to get an advantage over other players who do not pay, getting things faster is still an advantage. Some others here like Evilpig clearly have a different definition of Pay2Win, for them it's not Pay2Win if you can get the same thing in game, even if it takes you years of playing to do so.

Anyway from my perspective PS2 already has Pay2Win with the ability to boost exp gain and purchase weapons with SC rather than certs. That doesn't mean I won't play PS2 because of this, but nor does it mean I would support purchasing other advantages like cert trees. It's matter of degree of Pay2Win that I can stomach. Faster exp gain for subscribers and the ability to purchase weapons I can accept, but some player laying down loads of cash to max out cert trees it takes everyone else months if not years to get I will not accept.

[Ghoest9]

Play2Win IMO is anywhere a player can pay money to get an advantage over other players who do not pay, getting things faster is still an advantage. Some others here like Evilpig clearly have a different definition of Pay2Win, for them it's not Pay2Win if you can get the same thing in game, even if it takes you years of playing to do so.

Anyway from my perspective PS2 already has Pay2Win with the ability to boost exp gain and purchase weapons with SC rather than certs. That doesn't mean I won't play PS2 because of this, but nor does it mean I would support purchasing other advantages like cert trees. It's matter of degree of Pay2Win that I can stomach. Faster exp gain for subscribers and the ability to purchase weapons I can accept, but some player laying down loads of cash to max out cert trees it takes everyone else months if not years to get I will not accept.

/em rolls eyes @ "I will not accept."

And back to reality.
If any possible advanatge in any situation is a problem for you them you should just move on tpo a new game now.

SOE has made it rather clear that the stuff you can buy can be earned by anyone and to be honest it isnt teribly hard to earn.

One of the big things a cash shop does it let a player become competent in multiple lines quickly instead of just one. If thats a problem for you - once agains I say you shouldnt be playing FTP games.

Personally I think the ideal situation is that any player could quickly be come well trained for one line so you could play one class very well a dn if you want to spend money you could play multiple classes very wwell quickly.

[EVILPIG]

I know some have a problem with any form of early unlocks, but I look at the reality of it. In the very beginning, those who buy stuff will have an edge. Over time, that edge becomes less and less as others earn those same unlocks. The game absolutely needs money and letting people unlock certs early is nothing compared to offering cash only carrots, like most any F2P game has to. I do not believe cosmetics alone can sustain a game. Especially a game where silly cosmetics simply do not fit in.

[Helwyr]

/em rolls eyes @ "I will not accept."

And back to reality.
If any possible advanatge in any situation is a problem for you them you should just move on tpo a new game now.[...]


Rolls eyes right back at you...

'I will not accept', means I will move on and not play the game. However, that's not an issue atm as the degree of Pay2Win is at a level right now that I can accept. I don't know where you got "any possible advantage in any situation is a problem" for me, because if you'd actually read my post you'd know that was not what I said.

I'm not speaking out against SOE's current level of Pay2Win, I'm speaking against those that want even more Pay2Win. So, maybe you should be rolling your eyes at them and telling them to go play another game, because there's no indication cert trees will be available for $$$.

[SKYeXile]

So im trying to put together my shopping list for the first day.

Pulsar LSW
Nemesis VSH9
Hailstorm turbo laser
Proton pods
Saron
Proton II
Nova

not sure if i need more or what.

oh yea maybe an upgraded carbine for the engi.

[Snipefrag]

I have to say my perspective is closer to Evilpigs than any other view. Paying to speed up game processes is not pay to win in my books, being able to buy a BFG that one shots people from 100 yards is. If you think PS2 can survive without 'pay to speed things up' then you're dreaming :|.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Athanasios]

It's simple.

1) I have 1 hour now and then to play PS2.
2) I don't want a sticker on my window, i want another playstyle.
3) I will pay to get that playstyle.


Hmm... who was using that "playstyle" word? Was it Higby? Was it Smedley? Was it Isaac? Was it maybe EVERYBODY in SOE?

Yes, it was all of them. IF they make that gun i want imba, it's THEM making the game P2W, not me. It's their job to assure (as they said in thousands times already) that each "unlock will promote another playstyle, you will still be able to kill -if you have skills- whether you play with the default equipment or that super duper level 99 weapon".


In the end of the day; Some people have tons of free time and they can progress as they want without paying a dime. Why me, who i don't have this luxury, not pay to catch up? How can the first deny this right to the second?

Both are customers for SOE. The first because he keeps the "base load" of the game running. The second because he pays and contribute to their actual wallets directly. If i was SOE, i would want both of them to play my game.