Good news for the outraged, dissapointed PS1 vets

[Rolfski]

Cheer up, you will (mostly) get what you want :cool:
If you watch a few dev commentaries like this one (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=49649), things should start to make a lot more sense. Especially if you read between the lines:
Their whole idea has always been to release a BF3 on crack and then turn it into a PS1 on steroids over time.

Right now they focus on making it attractive enough for the (casual) masses to keep the offices running but they will gradually add a lot of your PS1 stuff:


Can't live without your 2-manned tank? Be prepared to Cert for it.
Dying for that ant run? They will add secondary objectives.
Shallow like Paris Hilton? The meta game will make it more Meryl Streep.
No feeling of accomplishment? Continent locking will be there.
Want to keep the Zergs out for hours with 2 man only? Ford Knoxes and other choke points will be there.
Train that noob in a safe environment? VR is already on the drawing board.
BFR's that ruin the game? Won't happen.
Want to get lost inside a bunker? Indoor bases will appear.
Hate the hex system? They will flesh it out so that you don't want to go back anymore.
Etc, etc.


Of course you must have a bit of patience and not everything will come in the same format as PS1. I'm pretty sure though that if this game will become a success, it will end up a lot more hardcore then you have ever wished for.

Hopefully this idea will cheer up the infuriated and depressed PS1 vets a bit. Because I really would love to see more positive posts from PS1 vets in this forum. :)

[Crator]

A lot of people seem to think that the game will fail if released in current state, with a lot of the stuff missing that you listed among other things. However, if SOE does keep up with these kinds of fixes then the game will defiantly be great in time. And I don't think a bad first impression is all that bad. This is a free-to-play game after all.

Also, first impressions are not all that bad, when you first start. Other then the new player experience issues. The game looks great! And is fun to an extent. It's the depth that missing. So next iteration of a FPS that comes out a lot of players will probably migrate there for some time. But when SOE updates PS2 with meta-game stuff and bug fixes and such, they will come back again. For the same reason they tried the game in the first place, it's free to play. Some people are just drama queens is all. ;)

You must know though, some PS1 vets have been scarred for life by SOE. ;) It's only natural they get upset like this cause they went through a whirlwind of crap with PS1.

[Aaron]

Good to hear. We really can't be too rash with PS2. It needs a lot of time.

[Marinealver]

Is this all comming before or after launch.

SOE has craped all over us before and I won't put it beyond them to say this and do that instead.

[Figment]

They really need to communicate what they're working on, short, long term priorities so we can keep giving feedback and they manage expectations a bit better.



That said, I really hope they look beyond a "cert" for driver/gunner, because it's just coming across as a half arsed token "solution" that's not actually fixing the problems and reasons why we want it. :/

[Rolfski]

They really need to communicate what they're working on, short, long term priorities so we can keep giving feedback and they manage expectations a bit better.
I think they are doing that as best as possible, imo at least better than most developers. The problem is they can't promise too much in a planning phase of a feature or people will immediately set it in stone and hold them to it. They need to keep some flexibility in their design processes.

That's why you need to read between the lines a bit and check up on these devs in more informal situations like spontaneous stream Q&A's.

Bottom line is; they have not forgotten about mechanics that apparently made PS1 such a classic. If they think it works for PS2 as well you will find it in there in some form sooner or later. If it doesn't work, they will look for other ways to add extra layers to the game that make the experience richer and deeper.


Why am I so 100% sure about all this?
Besides what the devs are telling us: If you look at it from a pure business point of view, this all makes perfectly sense.
You develop & release a very basic game (You should compare the upcoming release with Minecraft alfa), that is attractive enough to a wide amount of players to keep the office running. From there on you create and improve features/content that keep your players interested and make them even more addicted to the game. Best way to do it? Let them decide. If you do this well enough? Voila, you've just created an endless running, money making, machine.

Why do you think SOE is paying so much attention to Eve Online? It's because that universe has become the endless money making machine SOE is aiming for with PS2.

You guys call yourself true fans? I'm 100% sure you are but believe me, compared to hardcore Eve fans you would probably qualify as casual player. We're talking tattoos here, Eve's player base has become insanely attached to the game over the years and their numbers keep growing. That's all because the game improves considerably every year and they decide the game play. Their addiction keeps the offices staffed year over year.

SOE wants exactly this with PS2 so I wouldn't be too worried about this game not becoming hardcore enough, lol :D

[Bags]

Getting a tattoo of a game probably just means you have poor judgment.

[bullet]

Getting a tattoo of a game probably just means you have poor judgment.

You're telling me you don't have a Tri-Force tattoo on the back of your hand? :lol:

OT: I like where the Amerish patch is going in terms of the cont layout and base designs. There seem to be better divisions of vehicle territory and infantry territory. It seems like they've put more of a creative design process into outposts on Amerish instead of just putting a tower here and a building over there.

About driver/gunner tanks, Higby had mentioned you could cert into them and it would give your gunner even stronger weapon systems than what the driver currently uses, if I understood him correctly. I don't know how I feel about a system like that unless they tone down the current damage on MBTs main cannons. They'll have to do some good balancing acts to get that type of system in line.

[Sifer2]

Are they seriously going to implement that stupid of idea of certing into a 2 man required tank? Why the hell would I cert into a nerf? Unless it doubles the armor of the tank that is useless. Just make them 2 man vehicles by default an buff the Lightnings AV capacity for the casuals.

At least the other stuff sounds promising though. Thing is the whole launching as Battlefield 4, and slowly turning into PS2 over time sounds like a slippery slope to me. I think it will heavily depend on who the bigger audience ends up being after launch. If the casuals do embrace it then I expect it to only get worse. More dumb changes like the pull Sunderers from outposts change. Next one I expect is reduced cooldown on Instant Action. Just more zerg less tactics. Unless the casuals play for a bit then mostly leave behind the PS1 players. If that happens then yeah I expect they will cater more to what we want though it's not ideal for their F2P model to succeed. They might be used to it by now though as really none of SOE recent products have been smash hits.

[Rolfski]

Getting a tattoo of a game probably just means you have poor judgment.

You would think so until you read this stunning article (http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/05/24/internet-spaceships-are-serious-business) that gives a fascinating insight in the world of Eve Online fans.

It's the wet dream of every game developer and SOE would die for this. That's why they teamed up with Eve Online/CCP to release Dust 514. That's why they developed this player based content system that will get released within all of their games, including PS2. And this is also the very reason PS1 vets should never ever have to worry. As long as this game is paying for itself, you WILL get stuff you love.

[PoisonTaco]

Looking forward to what Planetside 2 looks like in a year from now.

[Helwyr]

Nice theory, but here's an alternative...

SOE open up the game on Nov 20th and Planetside 2 goes live. PS2 is the latest new shiny game and attracts a tons of new gamers that had never even heard of the original game let alone played it. The old PS1 community is now a small blip of the PS2 community tired of posting for changes and correcting idiots. PS2 Devs now react on the new community's feedback and abandon all the stuff they promised the earlier beta community. Most of these ideas are formulated by the games these new players come from so we simultaneously get demands to make PS2 more like WoW and CoD. Crap is implemented, most PS1 vets abandon the game. Bulk of the new community bolts 6 months later to the latest new shinny game, leaving a much reduced player base that really like the Battlfield/CoD/WoW influenced version of Planetside.

Oddly it's that the SOE Developer team seem for the most part to do whatever they had planned regardless of feedback that gives me hope my version of the future will not come to pass. But if there's a lesson learned from years of following and playing MMOs it's to judge developers like politicians, on their actions not their promises.

In regards to EVE, comparing that to a game makes me recoil from it like a stinking turd. A lot of former EVE fans turned their back on that game, those that linger it's often because of the strong social connections some players have in EVE, not the terrible gameplay. Take away the social aspect all that's left is a crappy Space WoW (albeit still with a Sandbox economy).

[Rolfski]

Most of these ideas are formulated by the games these new players come from so we simultaneously get demands to make PS2 more like WoW and CoD.
You assume that players suggesting ideas from other games automatically leads to a worse PS2 game. Well I have bad news for you, where do you think the ideas from the original PS1 came from? Every game is based/inspired on ideas from other games.

In general, I have not seen this game becoming worse since the last 2 months because of "crappy WoW/COD elements" that got implemented. I think you're underestimating the intelligence of newcomers here.

[artifice]

You assume that players suggesting ideas from other games automatically leads to a worse PS2 game. Well I have bad news for you, where do you think the ideas from the original PS1 came from? Every game is based/inspired on ideas from other games.

In general, I have not seen this game becoming worse since the last 2 months because of "crappy WoW/COD elements" that got implemented. I think you're underestimating the intelligence of newcomers here.

I completely agree. This game is far more appealing than Planetside 1 ever was.

[eXpo]

Are they seriously going to implement that stupid of idea of certing into a 2 man required tank? Why the hell would I cert into a nerf? Unless it doubles the armor of the tank that is useless. Just make them 2 man vehicles by default an buff the Lightnings AV capacity for the casuals.

At least the other stuff sounds promising though. Thing is the whole launching as Battlefield 4, and slowly turning into PS2 over time sounds like a slippery slope to me. I think it will heavily depend on who the bigger audience ends up being after launch. If the casuals do embrace it then I expect it to only get worse. More dumb changes like the pull Sunderers from outposts change. Next one I expect is reduced cooldown on Instant Action. Just more zerg less tactics. Unless the casuals play for a bit then mostly leave behind the PS1 players. If that happens then yeah I expect they will cater more to what we want though it's not ideal for their F2P model to succeed. They might be used to it by now though as really none of SOE recent products have been smash hits.

Regarding the tank gunner cert, it would be an advanced certification that would unlock the ability to use more powerful tank weapons as well, so there would be a benefit of using 2 guys.

[Ravenclaw]

They really need to communicate what they're working on, short, long term priorities so we can keep giving feedback and they manage expectations a bit better.



That said, I really hope they look beyond a "cert" for driver/gunner, because it's just coming across as a half arsed token "solution" that's not actually fixing the problems and reasons why we want it. :/

I guess you have not been keeping up with the tonnes of videos and interviews with Matt Higby, believe me they IS a lot of communication going on, and lot more than we seen in any game in the past... tho they really should have a forum area dedicated to all those videos

[Helwyr]

You assume that players suggesting ideas from other games automatically leads to a worse PS2 game. Well I have bad news for you, where do you think the ideas from the original PS1 came from? Every game is based/inspired on ideas from other games.

Well that depends on the games doesn't it.

In general, I have not seen this game becoming worse since the last 2 months because of "crappy WoW/COD elements" that got implemented. I think you're underestimating the intelligence of newcomers here.

We were speculating on the future not the past 2 months. Although I've already seen the beta forums increase with the quantity of bad ideas as more players have been added. Albeit uncommon suggestions now they're there, Instanced Arenas and PvE content for example. Those that suggest such things are mocked now, but I've seen in other games how quickly communities can change during and after beta. What was an idea/feature resoundingly rejected by early adopters/fans can become the accepted status quo further down the line.

I hope your view of the future PS2 is the right one, but there's no guarantee that it will be, and those PS1 fans that dislike the game as it will be on November 20th shouldn't be led to think that SOE is more likely to make the changes they hope for further down the road. As a collective community "PS1 Vets" time to be heard is nearly over.

Plus consider Duke, I can't have you fill his head with hope and steal away his beloved melodrama.

[Timealude]

Well that depends on the games doesn't it.



We were speculating on the future not the past 2 months. Although I've already seen the beta forums increase with the quantity of bad ideas as more players have been added. Albeit uncommon suggestions now they're there, Instanced Arenas and PvE content for example. Those that suggest such things are mocked now, but I've seen in other games how quickly communities can change during and after beta. What was an idea/feature resoundingly rejected by early adopters/fans can become the accepted status quo further down the line.

I hope your view of the future PS2 is the right one, but there's no guarantee that it will be, and those PS1 fans that dislike the game as it will be on November 20th shouldn't be led to think that SOE is more likely to make the changes they hope for further down the road. As a collective community "PS1 Vets" time to be heard is nearly over.

Plus consider Duke, I can't have you fill his head with hope and steal away his beloved melodrama.

Your also forgetting that the Devs are PS1 vets too so they wont do stuff they know will destroy the spirit of the game.

[Figment]

I guess you have not been keeping up with the tonnes of videos and interviews with Matt Higby, believe me they IS a lot of communication going on, and lot more than we seen in any game in the past... tho they really should have a forum area dedicated to all those videos

Twitter, reddit, YouTube, forums, etc. Every tidbit of info is spread all over the web. What I'm talking about is a wish and priority list with more of an order of patches than set dates.

For all Wargaming did wrong, they said in advance what their patch plans were. Of course they got regularly postponed, but you knew they would first do French tanks, then this line of units, then this feature, etc.

[Snipefrag]

If people honestly believed all this would be in for release then you need to get with reality. Like all software development making games is an iterative process. I see so many people whining about things that we KNOW the devs plan to address. Have a little patience, the games not perfect but given time we will see the majority of these things we are after.. I get the feeling that people who are complaining and comparing it to PS1 weren't around for PS1 release.. What a mess that was ! They probably came along a couple of years in and are now sitting on their high horses making comparisons.

If you don't like this FREE game in its current state then screw off, stop complaining and come back in a few years when its matured into the game you want. If it doesn't then you can come back here and laugh at all us who had faith in the dev teams direction. Either way, quit throwing the toys out the pram and grow a pair. Make your decision, stick around and be patient or get lost.

[Helwyr]

Your also forgetting that the Devs are PS1 vets too so they wont do stuff they know will destroy the spirit of the game.

That's what I'm hoping on actually, that they have a vision for the game based on that and stick to it rather than act on the wishes of the broad community. Because there will increasingly be voices whose ideas would destroy the spirit of the game.

[Sturmhardt]

All good promises... I believe it when I play it.

[Mox]

All good promises... I believe it when I play it.

^This.

[Qwan]

It is what it is gents and lady's, we know like all MMO's PS2 is going to evolve into what we want, as a PS1 vet i watched it happen. Granted there are things I dont like about PS2 but I have watched this game make some very big changes since the start of beta, and I know and can garante in the next six months after release were going to see alot more. But alot of the changes will partially be on us. First dont complain, POST on forums that we know devs actually read, start a thread and get answers that you know the devs want to read. I think this will let them know what we want and exspect in PS2. So before you guys say this sucks and that sucks, post and let the devs know whats on your mind.

[Captain1nsaneo]

Trust but verify.

(Yay! Bunkers!)

Edit:
And because I feel I need more text, I'd like to point out that I don't trust devs to not mishandle seemingly obvious things in the future. Mistakes can and will happen. The problem of being devoted to your project means that it's very difficult to see the problems with it. It was obvious from the start the BFRs were a bad idea, as was the Thunderer, and Phantasm when they first were released. But there have also been examples of excellent ideas pulled off well. The Sg/Lib update and facility benefits affecting all connected bases just to name two. Just remember some basic realities, a rare weapon that isn't scarce isn't rare and a giant doom tank that everyone can theoretically access will be accessed by everyone and then we get Battle Zone.

[Raka Maru]

Actually, this is the first post in a while that has given me hope for PS2's future, and it actually made sense. I've been totally frustrated lately. We'll see...

[NewSith]

That's a very common misconception that people want two-man tanks because they want two-man tanks and not because they don't want one-man tanks...

[Figment]

That's a very common misconception that people want two-man tanks because they want two-man tanks and not because they don't want one-man tanks...

Stop confusing the peons! D:

[psijaka]

You assume that players suggesting ideas from other games automatically leads to a worse PS2 game. Well I have bad news for you, where do you think the ideas from the original PS1 came from? Every game is based/inspired on ideas from other games.

In general, I have not seen this game becoming worse since the last 2 months because of "crappy WoW/COD elements" that got implemented. I think you're underestimating the intelligence of newcomers here.

+1. I'm beginning to dislike the elitist tone of some PS1 vets.

I've played a fair bit of COD in my time (not this year, though), and IMO Planetside 2 is nothing like COD. I wouldn't be here if that were the case.

There are some comparisons to BF, but there seems to be so much more to PS2 than that. And we're still only in the Beta.

[Mavvvy]

Enough with the cod talking crap. Planetside 2 is and should be big enough to cater to newcomers and old schoolers alike. Presumption and prejudice is not what this community needs to grow, and boy does it need to grow if we are to play the planetside 2 we want to.

[Figment]

Enough with the cod talking crap. Planetside 2 is and should be big enough to cater to newcomers and old schoolers alike. Presumption and prejudice is not what this community needs to grow, and boy does it need to grow if we are to play the planetside 2 we want to.

Obviously, but I think the problem here is that when a CoD or BF comparison is made, people talk about very specific elements, yet the term is often used in a seemingly generalised way even if that's not intended. Nuanciation lacks. PS games are just too complex to directly compare with anything else, so people tend to rush their statements with over-generalisations.

It's like debating religion and someone saying "well, atheists this" or "Christians that". It's not fair to make that generalisation, but it's also not fair to expect every generalisation to be nuanciated into fine print.

[MrBloodworth]

Your also forgetting that the Devs are PS1 vets too so they wont do stuff they know will destroy the spirit of the game.

I do not believe this. Nothing has given me munch indication anyone on the team has played PS1 for any amount of time. Now, Battlefield? Yeah, they all play that. I even recall Smed saying they do weekly play-sessions in the offices at SOE.

I've played a fair bit of COD in my time (not this year, though), and IMO Planetside 2 is nothing like COD.

That's not quite true. CoD is built on the "Playing alone, together" design principle, this has leaked in to Planetside 2 to a large degree. Also, the base layout design has also crept in, the arena style, direct pathing, intentionally designed to be forever cyclic flow, frantic death match principles have been used in Planetside 2. Makeing the Siege gameplay nearly removed ( Except for recent change to some major bases ) Personally, they should have paid more attention to team based games in terms of a phasing advancement, directly implied or indirectly implied, from games like ET:QW or Brink.

But apparently, when they say "modern shooter", they really mean only two titles.

[MrBloodworth]

....

[basti]

Cheer up, you will (mostly) get what you want :cool:
If you watch a few dev commentaries like this one (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=49649), things should start to make a lot more sense. Especially if you read between the lines:
Their whole idea has always been to release a BF3 on crack and then turn it into a PS1 on steroids over time.

Right now they focus on making it attractive enough for the (casual) masses to keep the offices running but they will gradually add a lot of your PS1 stuff:


Can't live without your 2-manned tank? Be prepared to Cert for it.
Dying for that ant run? They will add secondary objectives.
Shallow like Paris Hilton? The meta game will make it more Meryl Streep.
No feeling of accomplishment? Continent locking will be there.
Want to keep the Zergs out for hours with 2 man only? Ford Knoxes and other choke points will be there.
Train that noob in a safe environment? VR is already on the drawing board.
BFR's that ruin the game? Won't happen.
Want to get lost inside a bunker? Indoor bases will appear.
Hate the hex system? They will flesh it out so that you don't want to go back anymore.
Etc, etc.


Of course you must have a bit of patience and not everything will come in the same format as PS1. I'm pretty sure though that if this game will become a success, it will end up a lot more hardcore then you have ever wished for.

Hopefully this idea will cheer up the infuriated and depressed PS1 vets a bit. Because I really would love to see more positive posts from PS1 vets in this forum. :)



This is correct.


The wrong thing to do would to leave the game now, or not play till all that stuff is in.

They know that the game needs more depth behind the whole shooting stuff. Its OUR chance to decide how this depth is implemented.

[Rolfski]

I guess you have not been keeping up with the tonnes of videos and interviews with Matt Higby, believe me they IS a lot of communication going on, and lot more than we seen in any game in the past... tho they really should have a forum area dedicated to all those videos

Yup this is one the biggest reasons some PS1 vets are so disappointed:

People are uniformed because all the tidbits of info, scattered in multiple interviews and Q&A's.
We should really have a "what we know so far of the future of PS2" thread that is pinned to the top and collects all the info over time.
A topic like this would clean up a lot of the negativity we're seeing atm. Maybe some people have the time to help Hamma setting it up.
Many people fail to see the big picture. They think that what we are playing at launch is going to be the final game. Fortunately, it's not even close. We're playing a bare bones version atm that in three years will be seen as alfa.
SOE has so far not properly presented us a clear vision of how they think this game will look like in 3 years. That doesn't mean they don't have the ideas and ambitions for this. People that were lucky to visit their HQ like Hamma can probably confirm they're sitting on tons of wild stuff. Problem is that we decide the future so they don't want to set too much in stone yet.

[Qwan]

Why I QQ a lot, ill break it down for you. Played PS1 for almost 4 yrs, then off and on till release of beta for PS2. The reason its compared to BF and CoD is because of the class set up. In PS1 you started out with just a soldier, as you gained levels you gained certs you could spend them how you wanted, you could work your way to being a medic, or engineer, or heavy assault, or on max. You also spent certs on vehicles, air cav certs (mosquito, reaver and such), support certs (galaxy, lib, sunder, ams), tanks (lightning, Mag, prowler). Now all of this has changed, you have access to everything vehicle wise, weapons are the only thing restricted to certs. In PS2 I can be a basic engi, or medic, or infiltrator, or heavy or max (to a degree) right out the box. Weapon access is restricted to certs, gadgets, and additional equipment is cert restricted. This was not the PS1 its BF/CoD on steroids and I’m actually liking the set up, it’s nice, get you in the fight and effective immediately. The only thing I don’t like is the base set ups, and capture systems. But that I can work with and hope it gets better with time. So for a lot of the guys who saw PC magazine say PS2 is coming its culture shock, a lot has changed, like they said it’s not cut and paste, but as we go along I believe the Dev are seeing a lot of things from PS1 may benefit PS2. So don’t be surprised if we start seeing some things actually get incorporated.

[Hamma]

We should really have a "what we know so far of the future of PS2" thread that is pinned to the top and collects all the info over time.
A topic like this would clean up a lot of the negativity we're seeing atm. Maybe some people have the time to help Hamma setting it up.


Looks like we have a volunteer!!! :P

[Rolfski]

Looks like we have a volunteer!!! :P
I saw that coming, that's why I said "Maybe some people have the time to help".. :D

Seriously though, when the initial topic is set up, I'm happy to contribute my share and dissect a video interview.

[Helwyr]

Yup this is one the biggest reasons some PS1 vets are so disappointed:

People are uniformed because all the tidbits of info, scattered in multiple interviews and Q&A's.
We should really have a "what we know so far of the future of PS2" thread that is pinned to the top and collects all the info over time.
A topic like this would clean up a lot of the negativity we're seeing atm. Maybe some people have the time to help Hamma setting it up.
Many people fail to see the big picture. They think that what we are playing at launch is going to be the final game. Fortunately, it's not even close. We're playing a bare bones version atm that in three years will be seen as alfa.
SOE has so far not properly presented us a clear vision of how they think this game will look like in 3 years. That doesn't mean they don't have the ideas and ambitions for this. People that were lucky to visit their HQ like Hamma can probably confirm they're sitting on tons of wild stuff. Problem is that we decide the future so they don't want to set too much in stone yet.


The Developers do communicate a lot with the community, and I agree that it's often done in a way that is so casual and haphazard that each piece of information only ever reaches a small amount of the community. I'm still waiting to hear what was said at the SOE Live Planetside panels, there was one video by PS2TV and that's it so far. That's an official event, never mind all the discussions on twitch streams, Twitter, and forums I never go to like Reddit.

However, I think you're putting too much value on some of this information. Higby saying we're doing X and you'll see it in the next major patch or the one after can be taken as solid info on what we will see in game. But if he says we're thinking about doing X, or we'll introduce Y some time after launch, that's not solid info on what will definitely be in PS2. It's just what's on the Developers mind at that particular time and could easily change long before steps are made to implement it on the live servers. Don't get me wrong, I like to hear what's on the minds of the developers in regard to PS2. I just don't think some of that stuff can be taken as gospel or solid promises of future content like some seem to be interpreting.

[Rolfski]

Don't get me wrong, I like to hear what's on the minds of the developers in regard to PS2. I just don't think some of that stuff can be taken as gospel or solid promises of future content like some seem to be interpreting.
I agree, there's no guarantee whatsoever about particular features being implemented. However, with all this blind, outrageous negativity you see with some of these PS1 vets, it will help to calm people down a bit and show them that the devs:
- Have played PS1 and thought of every mechanic and what it possibly can do for PS2
- Do listen to these forums and think a lot of heavily discussed issues like tank mechanics.
- When they decide to go for different mechanics like class system, there's a reasoning behind it.

[Figment]

I agree, there's no guarantee whatsoever about particular features being implemented. However, with all this blind, outrageous negativity you see with some of these PS1 vets, it will help to calm people down a bit and show them that the devs:
- Have played PS1 and thought of every mechanic and what it possibly can do for PS2
- Do listen to these forums and think a lot of heavily discussed issues like tank mechanics.
- When they decide to go for different mechanics like class system, there's a reasoning behind it.

Honestly have my doubts about the conclusions you have drawn.

Yes a portion of the devs played ps1, but though I cannot question the frequency I can question how well and organised they did and how involved with the original players they were. I don't see immediately that there is a good and proper understanding, especially hen looking at some vids of them playing ps1 and when looking at the vision and mechanics selected.

They do listen to the forums, but a lot of beta critique was already given based on alpha footage and could have been long dealt with by beta.

And yeah of course there is a reasoning but I often feel forced to question the reasons given. Especially when copy cat reasons are given for ps1 systems nobody ever complained about. :/

That said, they are slowly moving in a better direction, but they try to reinvent the wheel so much it costs a lot more time, too much time. Then we are talking about parts of the ui, game mechanics and doing crazy things like infils with shotguns.

[Rolfski]

There is however, one immense problem here; it doesn't offer the required depth from an MMO stand-point or even that of 'generic once a year' shooter. Coming from a BF3/COD background, I personally think PS2 has already more depth than these games, but you're still making a very good point here. As much as they want it (Smedley checked PVE interest for a reason), they are very limited in what they can do in adding MMO features (at least on the short term) to keep us hooked: no quests, no campaigns, no story telling, no coop, no crafting, no economy, etc.

Well, good for us because it means that adding strategy to the game has become even more important to keep us interested. And unlike the 'generic once a year' shooters, keeping us interested over a longer period is extremely important to them or otherwise they won't earn their money back.

[RobUK]

Honestly have my doubts about the conclusions you have drawn.

Yes a portion of the devs played ps1, but though I cannot question the frequency I can question how well and organised they did and how involved with the original players they were. I don't see immediately that there is a good and proper understanding, especially hen looking at some vids of them playing ps1 and when looking at the vision and mechanics selected.


I remember Matt Higby saying that his favourite pastime in Planetside was "griefing" other players by camping spawn tubes in a Qasar MAX. I suspect Matt probably wasn't a "serious" PS player :D

I know Smed isn't a developer, but I remember him being around as a hardcore NC player since forever. I'm pretty sure he loves the game as much as we do.

T-Ray was always Vanu, but he never seemed to talk much about the game itself. He was always more about the artistic design and aesthetics of the game.

Other "gone but not forgotten" people that were big names in Planetside were Smokejumper (all Empires) and Sporkfire (hardcore TR). I wish those guys were still around and involved in Planetside 2 :(

I think it's clear that Planetside is a game whose spirit SOE would prefer to pretty much forget about and move on from. The current generation of devs are merely interested in the name and they're making their version of Planetside now.

Matt Higby is a "new generation" gamer. Sadly, I suspect that he genuinely does know what the 2012 gamer wants and expects from a game. That's why PS2 is what it is. Sadly for us old goats anyway :lol:

They all seem like really nice guys though. Even grumpy old Smed. I think a lot of us have gotten used to his hobnailed boots approach to communication.

[Figment]

Oh they're definitely nice guys. No personal problems with them whatsoever. =) Just critical and keeping him sharp! :D

However, I don't think there is such a thing as new-generation gamer. That's a matter of upbringing. ;) Instant-gratification and casual gaming isn't something new, there's always been that part of the playerbase that just zerged wherever for instance. For a MMO, you always will have to provide a good mix of "depth and shallow waters". It goes wrong when you only provide one group with a means to play.

Thing is, PS1 did that. PS2 needs to really "deepen the pool still", so to speak. :) I just hope we're not losing the non-grind people before the meta-game has been worked out, cause that's going to take a lot of time.

[Checowsky]

Somewhere along the line it would be nice if they would address the gunplay skill level. Right now its just not fun to play at all. PS1 was a big hill to climb but PS2 is far to easy. There should be some sort of learning curve so players don't feel like nothings changed over time played. Most engagements are solved by holding the trigger down as theres little point in tap firing and the ranges where that does become a legitimate option people don't want to fight at and don't bother as it turns out to be a waste of ammo most of the time as the guns are just to inaccurate.

It would be nice to see all guns unlocked [with some obvious exceptions] on all classes and then tweeking them to be very niche for certain situations so gun choice actually matters. Like in PS1.

[ChipMHazard]

I fail to see the reason as to why this was necro'ed.

[p0intman]

Somewhere along the line it would be nice if they would address the gunplay skill level. Right now its just not fun to play at all. PS1 was a big hill to climb but PS2 is far to easy. There should be some sort of learning curve so players don't feel like nothings changed over time played. Most engagements are solved by holding the trigger down as theres little point in tap firing and the ranges where that does become a legitimate option people don't want to fight at and don't bother as it turns out to be a waste of ammo most of the time as the guns are just to inaccurate.

It would be nice to see all guns unlocked [with some obvious exceptions] on all classes and then tweeking them to be very niche for certain situations so gun choice actually matters. Like in PS1.

AWESOME necro bro.

[DeltaGun]

I fail to see the reason as to why this was necro'ed?

Why the question mark at the end? Are you confused about your own opinion?