PS2 makes new players unhappy

[DSxGIIR]

A group of my friends has played PS2 beta, they all came to me telling me the good looks awesome, but they said the game sucks a**, reason being when they first logged in they didn't know what to do for 20-30mins. Within that time they just stood around in the Warp gate confused about where the fights are, and where they should be fighting. So to the PS2 team please have a tutorial when the game launches.

[SturmovikDrakon]

http://i.imgur.com/Gemdp.png

[RSphil]

also they should ask or do a little research about the game. but asking is always the best. like any mmo. just because this is a fpsmmo it doesn't meant the system has changed. if you are not sure then ask, the community on the whole is willing to help.

i would also say saying a game sucks just because you are not sure what to do for 20 mins is a little ott :) just my opinion.
the devs have said they are working on ways to improve the new player experience. if they are only used to bf3 or cod and not even played a normal mmo before i can see the confusion. a few of my mates where a little confused at forst but i talked them trhough stuff for like 5 mins and they loved it.

lets hope soe sort this out and make it so new players have more idea of what to do when thay get in world and into the fight :)

[Beerbeer]

If there's one thing SOE could take lessons on is user interface.

They have a vision, yet they do not know how or cannot convey that scheme in a manner that is intuitive to most people. The human/game interface is too complicated and requires too many steps to get information out or perform actions. Even if you are able to find one thing buried three menus deep, the information is often lacking. There should never be more than one menu deep into anything IMO.

Hate to bring up apple, but what makes them so appealing to the mases is simplicity and functionality. They know and understand human interface and intuition that even a four year old can pick something up.

They can't design something that makes sense to their computer programming brain. They have to look at it from a much lower denominator, if they want to appeal to a much larger audience.

[DSxGIIR]

http://i.imgur.com/Gemdp.png

They should have a simulator in the game that shows people how to cap bases, towers and outputs.

[Crator]

They should have a simulator in the game that shows people how to cap bases, towers and outputs.

TUTORIAL: UI helper elements, directional indicators (waypoints, arrows, icons), pop-up explanations, VR training areas, a more intuitive UI interface overall, etc.. They should all be put into the game.

[Figment]

PS1 tutorial was also brought in way too late. It was rather decent once it was in, though it had some room for improvement in particular aspects.

But yeah, said it before: introducing PlanetSide games requires a focus on class / suit setup, various weapons, a lot about the base layouts and concepts of spawning in particular, conquest and metagame, basics of teamwork principles and ideas behind them.

But yeah, learn people to read maps. Please. (Desperate look in eye) or they will just zerg for years...

[Realmofdarkness]

A group of my friends has played PS2 beta, they all came to me telling me the good looks awesome, but they said the game sucks a**, .

shouldent you, as their friend have a guided tour with them and show them how to have a good time ingame. thats what I did with my friends when they joined the first time

[Figment]

shouldent you, as their friend have a guided tour with them and show them how to have a good time ingame. thats what I did with my friends when they joined the first time

Not all new players are buddies with someone else. It shouldn't require someone else to get you into the game at first time coming in. How many games do you know where that happens?

[Realmofdarkness]

Not all new players are buddies with someone else. It shouldn't require someone else to get you into the game at first time coming in. How many games do you know where that happens?

there will be new players guide upon launch so it wont require a friend later on. But if you have a friend playing(like in this case), why not get a guided tour? im sure that is much better than a instruction video.

when you play a board game for the first time you either read the instructions or play with someone who knows how to play

[Figment]

Yes, but there are no instructions right now. Of course it is more complete to ask someone else, I've always taken sometimes hours to instruct new players in the basics.

But I wouldn't say the guide at launch will be fine. I'm willing to bet they forget to really help build up a strategy tutorial. I'm not even sure if they can teach all aspects with tutorials, but all the basics should be covered. Starting with finding a fight and predicting where it'll go. They should therefore really start with a map explanation. Teach them how to set waypoints, detect which bases are under threat, how to travel to set points of the map etc.

Would really help if players are taught about the psychology of other players, particularly zerg as well. But I doubt that will happen.

[Realmofdarkness]

I think we will se alot of user created guidelines aswell on youtube. The problem what I think is that BF3/COD users probably wont have the patience to learn the game. they are used to just logon and know what to do. PS games takes a while before you get and not even instructions as you said can tell you all.

[psijaka]

I'm all for a tutorial that points newcomers in the right direction, but it shouldn't lead them along a set path; people need to find out what gameplay style suits them.

The basics need to be covered though:

Empires,
Classes,
Squads,
Chat,
Map viewing,
Deploying to a hotspot,
Baase capturing,
How to get a vehicle,
How to switch continents

But not too much - just the essentials to get new players into the action. Part of the fun for me is finding out things as I go along.

[Figment]

What they of course should do is go over ways to damage specific types of units and vehicles (will small arms fire actually have any effect? what type of AA is available), what type of weapons are good at close range, what does one class do that the other can't, etc.

Anyone remember the old PS1 offline tutorial that had you try and kill a Harasser with Gold Ammo/Rocket Punisher instead of Anti-Vehicular and of course no EMP grenade explanation? >.<"

It's not a miracle so few people knew of the awesomeness that was the EMP grenade... :(

[EVILoHOMER]

I've experienced this with all of my non PS friends but they don't want a tutorial, that isn't the answer as people get bored of them and just want to get into the action.

All they need to do is make the UI more intuitive because it is a mess and they need to do some kind of home base or something that is easy to understand. Right now standing in the bases in the warp gates is confusing with no clear goal.

The number one issue people have that I see is how to switch between islands. Even new players seem to run to the middle of the warp gate lol. It would make much more sense to have that as the entrance rather than those stupid terminals.

[EVILPIG]

An extremely short tutorial with a drill instructor yelling at you who then auto-joins you to a squad and instant actions you would be awesome. I'm talking 2 minutes then he pushes you out the door.

[Figment]

An extremely short tutorial with a drill instructor yelling at you who then auto-joins you to a squad and instant actions you would be awesome. I'm talking 2 minutes then he pushes you out the [insert proper analogy].

HART Drop Airlock. :p

[sylphaen]

Starship Troopers live-action style training ?
:p

[PoisonTaco]

They should have in-game boot camp. At the very least have someone tell new players to look both ways before they cross the street.

[Figment]

They should have in-game boot camp. At the very least have someone tell new players to look both ways before they cross the street.

Or tankdrivers before they drive over it/back up the road. ;p

[dethred]

I hate it when people post these kinds of responses, but this is entirely appropriate.

If your friends find the game frustrating or confusing and slag it off after 30 minutes, then it may be best for them to wait for Black Ops 2 or MoH

[Goku]

I hate it when people post these kinds of responses, but this is entirely appropriate.

If your friends find the game frustrating or confusing and slag it off after 30 minutes, then it may be best for them to wait for Black Ops 2 or MoH

Problem is many think are now accustomed to just hitting a button to play a 15 minute match. PS2 is nothing like that. A tutorial will certainly help, but who knows if people even have the patience for that. I HATE tutorials, but I really like figuring everything out on my own. I don't give up so easily if I'm not sure what is going on. Hopefully SOE will figure out something to help players along.

Even EVIL's suggestion if done properly would probably be better verse a huge tutorial. You cannot teach a player everything.

[Rahabib]

its important to not make it like Americas Army - I made it about 5 minutes in to that training and then said scew that.

I cant remember what game did this, but you could make training optional, but when you complete the training for a section you get X free certs. So it doesn't lock you from choosing something, but if you want to get a free unlock you need to do the quick training. But you can also just unlock it by just playing the game, which would be nice for those who don't need to be hand held.

[Crator]

I cant remember what game did this, but you could make training optional, but when you complete the training for a section you get X free certs. So it doesn't lock you from choosing something, but if you want to get a free unlock you need to do the quick training. But you can also just unlock it by just playing the game, which would be nice for those who don't need to be hand held.

Planetside 1 did this. Anything related to training or help screens should have an option to disable them.

[Figment]

Think that was his point Crator without playing the "oh look PS1 did it" card to avoid the anti-PS1 mechanic/concept/solution detection laser grid. :P

[Tamas]

This is a must have for launch.

[Rahabib]

Think that was his point Crator without playing the "oh look PS1 did it" card to avoid the anti-PS1 mechanic/concept/solution detection laser grid. :P
actually, I never did play PS1 :P
I didnt know that PS1 did that. Its a good way to address it however.

[Crator]

Think that was his point Crator without playing the "oh look PS1 did it" card to avoid the anti-PS1 mechanic/concept/solution detection laser grid. :P

actually, I never did play PS1 :P
I didnt know that PS1 did that. Its a good way to address it however.

^
You see there people! It's not a bad thing to say something was in PS1. Jeez. Just don't go saying, "This was in PS1 so it must be in PS2!". That's silly...

EDIT: IMO, a lot of people think PS1 vets have the stance of "This was in PS1 so it must be in PS2!" misinterpret what is being said. This all comes down to how you say it. So PS1 vets, just watch your phrasing.And, don't let your emotions get the best of you. I'm not going to say don't be emotional cause some folks can hold their composure and put passion into the post along with valid reasoning.

[Galron]

A group of my friends has played PS2 beta, they all came to me telling me the good looks awesome, but they said the game sucks a**, reason being when they first logged in they didn't know what to do for 20-30mins. Within that time they just stood around in the Warp gate confused about where the fights are, and where they should be fighting. So to the PS2 team please have a tutorial when the game launches.

Of the 2 friends that I gave beta keys to, both have mentioned the same thing. No clue on what to do or where to go, no tutorial or VR missions. :(

[Figment]

actually, I never did play PS1 :P
I didnt know that PS1 did that. Its a good way to address it however.

Hehe fair enough. :) Yeah, PS1 allowed you to go up four battle ranks through training missions alone, which was getting a guided tour of sanctuary, the virtual reality areas and a sample base, travelling to other continents, trying all suits and weapons, including several vehicles weapons, how to cert/decert, how to use the instant action, all different map overlays and map base status indicators, how links worked and drop pods, teaching you how to deploy an AMS, that sort of thing. PS2 will have to explain a lot of the menus through tutorials as well.

Of course, that only came in after what, three or four years? At first the pop ups didn't work either and only the waypoints worked. :/

For the first year, PS1 had a horribly outdated offline tutorial that was completely bugged and full of bad suggestions. A year and or so post-release it magically stopped functioning altogether, but wasn't replaced till the new Training Mission system was implemented.

What was good also was that you got these pop ups every time you got to something new, aside from world objects like warpgates and continents, these would be marked with big yellow exclamation marks, inviting you to take a look at what they do. You even got experience for touching those marks, so it was very rewarding to explore new tools.

Honestly, I think they did an outstanding job for the intuitive design and incentives to follow through with them without being obligated to any of it since you could always do them later through a tab in the personal profile pop up.

[sylphaen]

What was good also was that you got these pop ups every time you got to something new, aside from world objects like warpgates and continents, these would be marked with big yellow exclamation marks, inviting you to take a look at what they do. You even got experience for touching those marks, so it was very rewarding to explore new tools.

Honestly, I think they did an outstanding job for the intuitive design and incentives to follow through with them without being obligated to any of it since you could always do them later through a tab in the personal profile pop up.

I loved PS1 tutorial. It was like a character boost associated to a discovery/achievement list.

There was an index of everything your character could discover. While it was not really part of the tutorial, you were given XP anytime your character did something new and to complete the list, there were some advanced challenging items: piloting and trying weapons of enemy vehicles. Not a task for beginners yet part of the same "progress" list!
(fyi, you could capture and use enemy vehicles in PS1)

The tutorial was basically helping you to start filling the list and to realize how much more there was to find !

Coupled with the achievement system, it was a thing I remember taking some time to read and trying to complete.

[Hamma]

Videos and a simple tutorial system simply won't cut it. People will skip the tutorial or ignore it and unless people really want to know about the game 30000 videos wont help.

[Mechzz]

Hmm. I wonder if they could do something along the lines of Eve, where whole corporations exist to help new players into the game?

Now, PS2 has nowhere near the depth or complexity of Eve, but if an SOE-sponsored outfit was setup that ALL new players were forced to join, then experienced players might volunteer to be in that outfit (as well as their own, of course) and be willing to spend some time with new players, getting them in a squad, doing some training with them etc?

There are many people who are generous with their time, so this might work?

[Hamma]

That would be cool Mechzz.

Or they could just complete the mission system, I am of the belief a fully fleshed out mission system is the exact thing to help new players figure out what to do in a non round based shooter.

Now instead of running around looking at random icons on the map they have a specific mission to capture a certain point. They won't ignore it like a tutorial because it will give them direction rather than just pop up random windows or boot them into a random hotspot (still not knowing what to do)

[Mechzz]

Yeah, good point on the mission system. There's been no word of that for weeks, so we probably won't have it for launch, but it's something I'd definitely like to see in a future release.

[Rahabib]

well a fully fleshed out VR system probably will not come anytime soon. However, a video in the game that if you watched you get X certs (you must watch them in game so they can restrict fast forward etc.) they can do. They could even split them out so that - say 10 videos of 2-3 minutes a piece you get 2-5 certs each seems reasonable.

There was a game that did this - but I still cant remember who did, its driving me nuts.

[Fear The Amish]

Speaking of EVE a new player chat that they are automatically added to that stays open until a random rank would be nice. Give people a chance to ask questions and get answers quickly. Also smedly posted somewhere that at launch there will be a short and sweet tutorial system.

[IHateMMOs]

I honestly can't see how someone doesn't know what to do when they get in.

[sylphaen]

I honestly can't see how someone doesn't know what to do when they get in.

Maybe you're not noob enough.
:)

[Rahabib]

I honestly can't see how someone doesn't know what to do when they get in.

As someone who is new to PS, there are a few things that were confusing to me and took me a while to figure out.

First off, the map. When you spawn at the warp gate the first time there are no green dots. No where it says - you have to instant action, or re-deploy. No where does it say anything about squads. So a lot of new people truck out into the vast emptiness, thinking, "hmm.. I remember there was a explosion icon somewhere in this direction."

Second, No where is it stated in game how you get credits. So you start killing things and then eventually you get some. But when you kills things you get XP not credits - it was a bit confusing to me when I first started. Back when I very first started, they still had Araxium, which I can bearly tell you how that worked because I had to look it up. Same with the credits.

Once i grabbed an Sunderer thinking I could deploy and use it as a spawn like I saw everyone else doing - obviously that didnt work. What about buying weapons or attachments - oh you have to equip it first. That I had to just play around with it and then find it.

So the fact is, there are some things thats easy to people who use the internet to google things, but not intuitive to just figure out.

I guess this is where you tell me how I am too stupid to play the game or something else demeaning. Normally, I probaby wouldnt say anything but I know others who have the same questions - just look at the new player boards.

[Crator]

^ It's defiantly an issue. If you're someone who's used to Planetside it isn't that difficult. Because you know most of the stuff from the first game so you have a pretty good idea what you are supposed to do and what the objectives are. As far as how the UI and certifications work, that is totally new to everyone. But if you have been following development of PS2 (before beta) then you still have a good idea about the new stuff because you've read about it in DEV blogs, forums, and videos produced by the DEVs.

[Figment]

What Rahabib says is just the start too. There being a PS2 wiki for instance is nice and all, but it's got to be accurate, found, complete-ish and maintained.

Someone who is in game has no use for a wiki at that point, right there and then. Out of combat, that's nice and great and can be a great extra, but the bottom line is they shouldn't have to go looking for it outside of the game too much to get the basics.



As for the mission system, I've certed all the command leader stuff with the 1000 cp we got free. You get two little icons to place on the map every 5 minutes, requesting defense/offense.

But when I realised what it was and shared it with others I got a "OOOOOH, so THAT is what those things are! We couldn't figure it out yesterday at all!".


There's no proper map legenda. I mean, come on. What's the use of using symbols if people don't understand them or can verify their meaning?

[RSphil]

have to see what they do. i was new to all this planetside stuff but watched all the vids i could find and joined you amazing lot on here and got all the info i could. if i didnt know i asked and normally got an answer on here very quick. people just need pointing in the correct direction.

lets hope SOE get it correct and make learning the game easy and enjoyable.

[Babyfark McGeez]

I still think the system of PS1 was (nearly) perfect for a FPS style game.

You get to try out all the cool stuff and even get rewarded for it. And by trying it out you learn how it works. Maybe make a VR that is a true "Virtual Reality" and lets you also try out the different base layouts and what the objectives there are (mainly Bio lab, Amp Station, Tech plant).
There could be additonally videos running in a small window while in the VR to show you how exactly you should use that certain vehicle / weapon / objective.

But a tutorial that only consists of watching videos is boring and makes people miss important things because well, you know, they don't want to watch a video, they wan't to play (or atleast run around "live in game").
Even giving certs for that won't help. :p

[Figment]

One of the things missing in PS1, was practice on life targets. I mean, the infantry in the VR moved now and then, but didn't move in ways that allows you to really practice your aim and test weapon strengths, drop etc.

The vehicle VR had none such things at all.

It would be very nice to have the chance to firetest (moving) vehicles in VR, especially if they have different forms of armour on them. If they do go and make a VR, there's an awful lot they could do with that.

The Star Trek NGE vehicle style holo-deck we had in PS1 was pretty sweet, just a bit lackluster in options.

Speaking of VR and training, what could be really cool: if you could load a portion of an actual live map in VR for outfit training. Of course, that's not really for new players, but it would be very nice to have.

[IHateMMOs]

As someone who is new to PS, there are a few things that were confusing to me and took me a while to figure out.

First off, the map. When you spawn at the warp gate the first time there are no green dots. No where it says - you have to instant action, or re-deploy. No where does it say anything about squads. So a lot of new people truck out into the vast emptiness, thinking, "hmm.. I remember there was a explosion icon somewhere in this direction."

Second, No where is it stated in game how you get credits. So you start killing things and then eventually you get some. But when you kills things you get XP not credits - it was a bit confusing to me when I first started. Back when I very first started, they still had Araxium, which I can bearly tell you how that worked because I had to look it up. Same with the credits.

Once i grabbed an Sunderer thinking I could deploy and use it as a spawn like I saw everyone else doing - obviously that didnt work. What about buying weapons or attachments - oh you have to equip it first. That I had to just play around with it and then find it.

So the fact is, there are some things thats easy to people who use the internet to google things, but not intuitive to just figure out.

I guess this is where you tell me how I am too stupid to play the game or something else demeaning. Normally, I probaby wouldnt say anything but I know others who have the same questions - just look at the new player boards.

No, I don't call people stupid just because they don't understand the game. It's just that there's an entire website dedicated to all things Planetside, where you can find anything you need. Don't know how to use the map, ask someone, watch a tutorial video, read up on it in the wiki. I was confused about many things in firefall, and the wiki is useless, so I tried out some things, asked some people, and I figured out what I was supposed to do. Same method can be used with Planetside 2, especially with 2 full wikis. All you have to do is research some things. Doesn't require too much work.

[Crator]

^ You are a hardcore gamer. SOE wants to cater to the majority whom most likely are casual gamers. If you want to get them hooked you better do everything in your power to make it easy for people to learn (in-game) how to do things.

[Rahabib]

No, I don't call people stupid just because they don't understand the game. It's just that there's an entire website dedicated to all things Planetside, where you can find anything you need. Don't know how to use the map, ask someone, watch a tutorial video, read up on it in the wiki. I was confused about many things in firefall, and the wiki is useless, so I tried out some things, asked some people, and I figured out what I was supposed to do. Same method can be used with Planetside 2, especially with 2 full wikis. All you have to do is research some things. Doesn't require too much work.

That's what I did. But so many others want to just load the game and play. for Hardcore gamers going to a website is fine, but a lot of people their time is valuable and spending it just trying to figure out things like how to use a sunderer may be a waste of time to them. Its those people whom SOE needs to worry about.

Also, no offence, the PS wiki is horribly outdated an unuseful. Maybe after thing settle down it will get better.

[adanos]

I dont understand the topic , i think its title should change to something like "ps2 makes new not so bright players unhappy" and i m dumb as fuck.
If someone wants to learn something he WILL learn it.Others who are bored to do so , be sure they will skip the ingame tutorial too.
Before i play ps2 for the first time (5 days ago) i watched just 1 video on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gvXlHyApxY

all i had to do is type 3 words "planetside 2 guide" nothing else.

Is the video perfect? Ofcourse not , is it helpfull? hell ya . A fully video guide would take like 6 hours covering every single detail.

You(not you :P) are so bored and dont like discovering things yourself? Wanna just join the game and play? WAIT are we still talking about the same game? :doh:

For more details ask ingame people , whenever i ask something in squad chat i always find 1 awesome person who wants to help me , after that we become ingame friends and the questions keep rollin!

p.s: try to find ps1 players they are friendly and happy!

[Crator]

Why do people speak against an in-game guide? Boggles my mind. You do understand SOE wants people to pay them, right? How much of the stuff is missing from a player made tutorial, hmmm? You don't know.

[Rahabib]

I wouldnt mind just using a website if there was one that covered things in more detail. However even that video isnt very helpful for a lot of questions new people have.

Next, people are intimidated by using the chat. In some games people have had experiences where the old community just responds to a question about "how do I get new weapons?" with "press alt+F4." I havent seen it in this game however, but there are some who may be afraid to ask.

I am not saying make the game idiot proof, I think a video or wiki is sufficient for 90% of players as long as its well maintained and current. Thus far the wiki is far from it and the videos online as you stated you would need to watch 6 hours of it. Without incentivizing watching a video many will skip it. But with incentives like free credits, I think you will get more people who will watch it.

A smarter game population is a longer term population.

[Figment]

Regarding in-game communication: voice chat is most likely considered to be scarier than typed chat because you expose something more personal about yourself. I'd imagine especially women would feel less secure about using voice chat.

[Hamma]

People shouldn't have to find a website or a YouTube Video to figure out how to play the game.

[Figment]

People shouldn't have to find a website or a YouTube Video to figure out how to play the game.

Agreed.

Whatever they do, I think they should make lots of use of any non-play time to instruct new players: provide game mechanic tips during continent and game loading screens, make optimal use of installation time to explain the concepts and during character creation they should explain how characters work.

Currently there's this short text on the empire background and that's it.