They nerfed the Galaxy....for better or worse.

[Tobias]

As many know the galaxy has been changed, 3 chain guns (20mm, light) now, and no back blind spot, also now 6 inf instead of 4. Now while more people and guns is good, well we nolonger have a ton of firepower that it once packed and all that. However now with chainguns i dont think there can be any dobt that some fool with a skeeter will get wasted attacking one (or 4 fools with skeeters for that matter, unless they ram it.) but now we dont have the powerful anti inf and tank weapons we had before. Thoughts? (other then comments about my bad grammer)

[SmokeJumper]

Nerf? We haven't released the game yet and we're being accused of nerfing already? Sheeeeeeeeesh. You guys are tough.

:D

Anyway, the 20mm chainguns are actually a lot better than the 75mm cannons in almost every aspect where you would be flying the Galaxy. Using the Galaxy as a mounted gun platform to shoot at tanks would probably result in you losing a battle with those same tanks. And the chainguns are better versus infantry anyway.

The 75mm cannons were just too unwieldy to use. And it looked very strange to use indirect fire weapons from an aircraft. Plus, they were totally useless against air attackers.

So we changed them. But no way was it a nerf...even if we HAD released the game already. ;)

[Doobz]

i think its good.

take a comparative look at vehicles that perform similar jobs, such heavy lift helicopters. they dont carry anti tank weapons on board. they carry rapid fire, heavy caliber weapons to provide intense supressive into the enemy to allow time for the troops to disembark (more like haul their scared-shitless asses off:cool: ). then as it prepares to leave, it continues to lay suppressive fire into the enemy to let the troops move into position instead of leaving them out in a field to get ripped to pieces. then the vehicle will sometimes hang around a little while to help provide supporting fire

[Tobias]

Smoky, a nerf is not always a bad thing in my opinion, for instance, i play everquest, and my main is a druid, and when anything happens to those necromancers or wizards (i cheered when manna burn was nerfed,) Im happy. And the Galaxy is proably better now cause you can get those skeeters and swat them, teach all those people that are going to try to use them as fighters. Also got rid of the blind spot so a skeeter or reaver can not sit back there and shoot us up, so this nerf was not a bad thing really, but a ok thing. The Galaxy is still king of the air.

[Hamma]

:lol:

I think its a bit too soon to say things have been "nerfed" considering its stage of development (beta) hehe. Personally sounds like a change for the better.. proably will be a bit more effective in defending itself air to air. I was about to post on this very subject.

[Tobias]

A nerf can be bad or good, depending on ones outlook. wierd little animals, those nerfs.

[MrVicchio]

Oh shoot... you guys hit these forums?? Hope you dont min me cut-n-pasting your posts here... man thats a shock...

How the heck do I do this... do I cut-n-paste posts here too??? hehehehe

[xuur]

dunno. I think it makes sense to change to the chainguns, but was surely looking forward to using a large ground attack aircraft as well.

perhaps they could give you an option?

Galaxy Dropship, 20mm
Galaxy Gunship, 75mm

maybe even a Galaxy Bomber?


just a thought or two

[sPooT]

Even better, as smoky said, the Galaxy will now be really King of the Air :) It wasn't before with indirect fire...

[Tobias]

Bomber = Bad idea, but the choice bettween the two sounds good.

[Noxx]

If your calling this a nerf, wait till they acually do nerf somthing :P

[xuur]

why no bomber? not so much advocating it as I am curious.

[Tobias]

Of course we also now no for sure that a 75mm gun can do indirect fire, that means so can tnaks with those or better, thus if you want you can drive your tank up and bombard someone indictly, so its like artiliry, kinda.

[Tobias]

alowing 4 guys to get in a plane and bomb the snot outa say a colum of tanks in a game is a little too powerful i think.

[Doobz]

well, bombing would be awsome, particularly useful for softening up an outpost for an assault

[Zumthor]

What is the difference between direct and indirect damage?
Are you talking about like splash damage?
Just a little confused but thrilled that the PS guys read these forums!

[Sytadel]

Zumthor: I think what they mean is in the old galaxy design with the 75mm cannons, the cannons swiveled around irrelavent to the galaxy's direction, and that looked a bit wierd.

Anyway I'm all for the change, the game seems to be taking on that sci-fi realism tone in everything else, so the galaxy should follow the same rules. For the same reason, I think bombers should be used as well. But, as is the case in real life, they'd need to be highly defended by other aircraft, and obviously be very expensive. No doubt they'd require a very good pilot (or multiple pilots?) and very good commander. It's just a matter of balance ;)

Oh, yeah, I'm a friend of morphius', interested in joining that New Dawn clan.

[Hamma]

Hey Sytadel do you mind shrinking your sig down a few hundred pixels? (in width)

Messing up the forum layout a bit :)

btw, welcome :D

[SVoyager]

wow i didnt knew the devs were posting stuff here also. neeaaat!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

oh i think the 20mm cannons plus a added tailgunner will be much better. that 6 were one big blind spot as people said. good move!

[CrazyMike]

All they've done is change the Galaxy from a flying tank to a personnal/vehicle carrier. I think it's a smart move. Leave the tank busting to the troops on the ground. The Galaxy should just be for moving equipment and people around.


CrazyMike

[Hamma]

Indeed I agree.. makes it more of an air vehicle.. plus it can defend itself a little better if its escort is gone.. or non existant :eek:

[KoldFusion]

I think it was a good change..... especially removing that blind spot i was alittle concerned about that. I wasn't really sure why the 75mm cannons were on there but i am happy to see the chainguns (good air D as well as suppressive fire). Would i be correct in assuming that the chainguns will still have movement? or will they be fixed in place?

[NapalmEnima]

Originally posted by WRH_KoldFusion
Would i be correct in assuming that the chainguns will still have movement? or will they be fixed in place?

Given that each is manned by a gunner, that's a pretty safe bet.


I don't see this as a "nerfing" at all. It's an upgrade.

It can now defend itself in the air. Those 20mm cannon are going to be much more effective in an AA role than the cannons. I wouldn't be suprised to find that a group of 4-5 galaxies flying in formation will be able to effectively defend themselves from an equal number of gunships... Overlapping fields of fire and all that.

[Validuz]

Originally posted by SmokeJumper
Nerf? We haven't released the game yet and we're being accused of nerfing already? Sheeeeeeeeesh. You guys are tough.

:D

Anyway, the 20mm chainguns are actually a lot better than the 75mm cannons in almost every aspect where you would be flying the Galaxy. Using the Galaxy as a mounted gun platform to shoot at tanks would probably result in you losing a battle with those same tanks. And the chainguns are better versus infantry anyway.

The 75mm cannons were just too unwieldy to use. And it looked very strange to use indirect fire weapons from an aircraft. Plus, they were totally useless against air attackers.

So we changed them. But no way was it a nerf...even if we HAD released the game already. ;)

Whoever this guy is, doesnt know what hes talking about ;p Pfft, never heard of the name SmokeJumper ;) I see a "dev" under his name, must mean devious

lol, anyway.. just figured id pick on the dev ;p

*edit* btw, just a joke, dont want this hurting my chances of bet testing anymore than they already are.. =)

<3
Valid

[Sytadel]

Oh whoops, sorry bout the sig. Haven't had that prob before. *fixes*

Also, what exactly does nerfing mean? I've heard a few different ones over different games. I always thought it meant rendering a unit useless, lol.

[Hamma]

Nerfing means they decresed the power of somthiing, In my experience nerfing has always been bad.

BTW, plz remove Validuz from the beta consideration process :lol:

j/k :p

[Sytadel]

Tanjent: Is there any word on how beta testers will be decided? I sure hope that living in Australia doesn't render my chances non-existant.

[Hamma]

1000.. they have mentioned they may take only American testers due to server location.. dunno what will happen however.

[Tobias]

nerfs can be oks, they are not bad, stop hating on the nerfs before they go get their foon homies and beat you up.

[Airlift]

A nerf is almost metaphysical in that it only exists in relation to those who experience it. Let's assume for a moment that the Galaxy is weaker as Tobias suggests and not stronger as Smokejumper says (nevermind that only one of them has a frame of reference). It still can't be a nerf for anyone but the internal testers because we didn't fly or shoot from the Galaxy before the balance change. In fact, you could argue that it isn't really even a balance change for us because we don't see the outcome of the changes, only the report that it was this and it was changed to that.

In any case devs, Tobias is one of those crazy Vanu. That makes him a little off right out of the gate. The real cries of nerfage will come after we get the game in our hot little hands and you start balancing against external testers.

[Tobias]

I never said it was a bad thing, and if i did i will never admit to it!

[Airlift]

Don't worry Tob, I didn't say you thought it was a bad thing, I said you thought it was weaker than before, which is implied by your use of the term 'nerf'.

[�io]

I agree it's better this way. Makes more sense, an APC is an APC not a tank. If you want to fight air-to-ground then find another ship. :)

[glsauron]

"considering its stage of development (beta)"

We're not in Beta yet, still only Alpha. Beta is when its released for bug testing to the public (or specially selected members therof).
So till they start burning PS discs to test its still only Alpha far as we are concerned.

And what he said above is true. I cant remember waht it was, or who said it, but I know somebody said something above that was true. :)

[Hamma]

They are at internal beta ;)

[xuur]

but thats sorta what Im hoping is there is some kind direct (indended) ground attack aircraft.

right now theres the skeeter (multi-purpose) and the galaxy (transport). I've yet to see (as goes for everyone) anything relating to ...oh, say the role of the A-10 Warthog (tank buster).

Thats definitely an aircraft I'd surely be looking to, but so far havent seen anything that lends itself to that particular anti-vehicle air-to-ground attack role.

[Tobias]

The reaver has a heavy chaingun on a turret and AP rockets, it could bust tanks. Galaxy used to have the 75mm's that could proably hurt thanks, or you could land on them....not it is proably just as affective against said tanks (they kill you either way) and has better point D against skeeters.

[Unregistered]

xuur: The Reaver is the ship your looking for. Unfortunatle we don't know much about it at this time, but it's the one that's supposed to fill the roll of Attack Gunship.

[xuur]

works for me. I'm hoping we'll start getting a few juicy tid-bits before too long, unless they truly want to wait until its released to start giving out more detailed info...or even at least a few new screens.

xuur, future Thud pilot.

[SmokeJumper]

How many of you played UO back in the bad ol' days right after release?

Well...Archery used to be REALLY powerful. So powerful, that everything else looked stupid in comparison.

Then one day, the UO team decided to reduce the power of arrows. The forum post that went up the next day said "Man...you turned our arrows into NERF ARROWS!".

And thus, the process of "nerfing" was born.

Basically, to a dev team, and in most communities, "nerf" = "reduce the power of something in game". And that's usually annoying to folks because they built their characters to best embrace the current rule set so they could be powerful within the scope of the rules. When devs change those rules, and invalidate some of the careful character balancing going on by the players, then the players scream "NERF!" at the dev team because they (somewhat reasonably) hate that process.

So...as developers...we try really hard not to "nerf" anything anymore. Of course, the "anti-nerf" (the process of bringing everything else up to the power that balances out the overpowered item/weapon) is pretty much just the same thing as nerfing, but it annoys less people because it's more deceptive. It basically still "nerfs" that original item, but through the guise of strengthening everything else...which a lot of players like because it seems good for their characters.

Anyway...very long story describing something you probably already know. But that's why I spoke about the Galaxy change not being a nerf. We actually made it better at succeeding at what it was designed to do...which is to successfully get a squad, intact, to a point on another continent. Air vehicles were wreaking havoc with Galaxies, so we strengthened them against air vehicles. We'll keep shoring things up during beta as we find various issues...

...and hopefully avoid the nasty nerf beast after release. ;)

[Sytadel]

I think so long as it's pre-beta, noone can really complain. I mean we can't really form strategies yet since we know so little.

[�io]

Originally posted by SmokeJumper
How many of you played UO back in the bad ol' days right after release?

Well...Archery used to be REALLY powerful. So powerful, that everything else looked stupid in comparison.

Then one day, the UO team decided to reduce the power of arrows. The forum post that went up the next day said "Man...you turned our arrows into NERF ARROWS!".

And thus, the process of "nerfing" was born.


Wow, didn't know that. Thanks for teaching us that oh wise and great one. And a big thanks on working hard on such a great game........NOW GIVE IT TO US ALREADY!!! :p ;)


P.S.:Yes i'm very anxious to play it, how can you tell?

[Hamma]

lol, I was unaware of the UO origin to Nerf hehehe. :D

/me slaps Dio around with a trout

[�io]

/me steals trout and begins to cook it

Hey Smokey, want some trout??
Yummmmy
And no this isn't my way of bribing you why do you ask??
/me whistles

:p

[Airlift]

Players are pretty savvy to proxy nerfing these days too, SmokeJumper. You guys just do what you need to do to make the balance right, and ignore the inevitable cries.... Unless it's me crying, then it's probably justified ;) ;) ;) :eek:

[Unregistered]

So long as there is no shocklance in Planetside you will never hear me complain about anything.

:D

[�io]

Originally posted by Unregistered
So long as there is no shocklance in Planetside you will never hear me complain about anything.

:D

What was wrong with the shocklance??

[Unregistered]

I spent 18 Months doing HO getting torn up by it. :D

That and I really think it was the one over powered weapon in Tribes 2. If you think about it the only "One Shot, One Kill" weapons in Tribes 2 were the laser rifle, and shocklance. So you strap on some Heavy Armor to get some extra firepower, and armor. The laser can no longer one shot you, but the shocklance can, and since your in bigger, slower armor your that much more of an easy target. So you really don't get any bounus other then the Mortar when your in Heavy. Your not really trading speed for armor like your lead to beleave.

There should be no single weapon that can take out a Heavy with full health, and now with the Mine/Disk combo in the new patch they have made the Heavys even more vunerable. But I digress, this is a Planetside forum, and no one wants to hear me bitch about the Shocklance again.

(except maybe Rayzer. He always thought it was really funny to shock me durring practice to hear me cuss over RW)

[NapalmEnima]

To get 1-shotted by ye ol "ion enema", they have to hit you in the back. So don't turn your back on them. Simple. It'll take much longer for them to kill you with the lance than it does for you to kill them with a disk/mortar/chaingun/anything else.

And if you turn off the music (or turn it way down), you'll always hear their footsteps (plus maybe a cloak pack, jammer, whatever), so they'll never be able to sneak up on you. The moment you hear ANYONE behind you, turn around.

Actually, it's still possible to get behind someone without being heard, it's just HARD. You have to come in from above, and cut your jetpack before you're close enough to be heard... and that means you don't get to make any course corrections. Like I said: HARD. You've also got to arm the lance well away from your target.

And if they're haning out near a friendly turret... you're just screwed. The moment a turret starts tracking you, your victime knows there's a hostile around, and has a good idea of where. If you turn on your jammer to keep the turrets off ya, they hear that. The only thing you can do is to get someone ELSE to kill the turret for ya.

I LOVE the shocklance. Waxing some porky bastard in one shot is one of those moments of gaming ecstasy we all look for but so seldom find. Makes me feel better about all the times I got spattered by someone spamming with their mortar.

[Unregistered]

Trust me.

I am the last person on earth that needs a lesson in how to HO.

[�io]

Yeah the shocklance is powerful but you need some serious skillz to 1 shot kill a heavy, that or said heavy has to suck.

I know i've never been killed in 1 shot nor have i killed a heavy in 1 shot.(well i probably did but that's because i was cloaked in their base so it meant free kills :D)

Anywhoo i doubt the knife will be one hit on a MAX. :)

[Hamma]

When you get up in the ladder the shocklance is a formitable opponent. No matter how skilled u are :p

[Unregistered]

No more Shocklance talk please. You'll give me nightmares!!!!

[Zarparchior]

God forbid we give you nightmares, Unreg, so I'll change the subject:
Originally posted by Tobias
Smoky, a nerf is not always a bad thing in my opinion, for instance, i play everquest, and my main is a druid, and when anything happens to those necromancers or wizards (i cheered when manna burn was nerfed,) Im happy. I hate you Tobias. I really do. Why in the HELL would you love Wizards to be NERFED?! Did you even ever try to play one?! You're some second-rate damage dealing, bottom feeding, forced to solo but not very good at it, weak version of a magician that can teleport. The ONLY saving grace about a wizard were the high level damage spells - until they turned to crap. Manaburn was the only thing to look forward to. I left it awhile ago because all it was was an attempt to either cheat, steal, and/or play 24/7 to become uber and get into an uber guild so you could get uber items and become leet. Not my version of happiness. :evil:

On the other hand, Druids were the first son's of Verant (as opposed to the beaten and tortured step-childs which we refer to as Wizards). They get EVERY type of spell in the game: DD, summons, teleports, movement enhancements, heals, buffs, YOU NAME IT - THEY HAD IT. And they not only had everything... but they had everything and did it well. You know there must be a problem with a class when 95% of all the people who played the game had at least one high level druid. :flamemad:

DRUIDS ARE OF THE DEVIL!

[Unregistered]

So how bout that Galaxy?

I think Dave really laid it out the best when he said it was to keep the thing from getting owned to fast. Now the only question is what was doing the 0wning? Skeeters or Reavers?

[Qanamil_Rafiki]

Hahaha, there is no escape from the EQ class-balancing bickering! :)

I like the new Galaxy a whole lot better. No rear blindspot and by far the chainguns are better for air-to-air combat repulsion with some use as air-to-ground suppression weapondry as well.

Good call Devs.



Qanamil Rafiki
Arch Convoker
Vis Veres, The Tribunal

[Hamma]

I would suspect both teh reaver and the mosquito can mess around with a galaxy, but probably work best in groups. I highly doubt one reaver/mosquito would be able to take out a galaxy.

[Lexington_Steele]

I think the key will be to have an anti aircraft specialist or two inside the Galaxy. At first sight of enemy aircraft you land, take them out, and then continue your advance.

Even if you can't take out them out from the ground, if you see enemy aircraft it is time to land.

[Doobz]

^
that would take too long, be dead when u slowed down to land

[Zarparchior]

Anyway, yes. I agree. This can by no means be considered a nerfedge. Three 20mm anti-aircraft guns are a hella lot better than two slow 70mm cannons that would never be able to touch a skeeter. This'll make things a bit more interesting. :)

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by Doobz
^
that would take too long, be dead when u slowed down to land

Dead while atleast trying to get the passengers to safety or just dead? Your choice.

[Tobias]

I hate you Tobias. I really do. Why in the HELL would you love Wizards to be NERFED?! Did you even ever try to play one?! You're some second-rate damage dealing, bottom feeding, forced to solo but not very good at it, weak version of a magician that can teleport. The ONLY saving grace about a wizard were the high level damage spells - until they turned to crap. Manaburn was the only thing to look forward to. I left it awhile ago because all it was was an attempt to either cheat, steal, and/or play 24/7 to become uber and get into an uber guild so you could get uber items and become leet. Not my version of happiness.

On the other hand, Druids were the first son's of Verant (as opposed to the beaten and tortured step-childs which we refer to as Wizards). They get EVERY type of spell in the game: DD, summons, teleports, movement enhancements, heals, buffs, YOU NAME IT - THEY HAD IT. And they not only had everything... but they had everything and did it well. You know there must be a problem with a class when 95% of all the people who played the game had at least one high level druid.


Blah Blah Blah anti druid lies Blah Blah Blah. In ME i can take 4 gorngna (or how ever you spell that) at a time, killing them in about 3 mins. With 12 FT, POTC, and KEI, i have little down time. I kill more then some of the groups, by myself. I can also solo in CS non stop with my lumistaff, and solo in UP against Elsylins to get fellow druids the armor, with no down time. After our epic got the snare removed it begame > then wizards epic imo. I think your just angry cause the wizard KS biznitchs got there main KS tool broken.
DRUID POWER.

cept halfin druids, those lil shrub huggers suck.


P.S. Us druids can also solo dragons in WW, i have never tried it but we can so blah.