AGN Instant Action: MLG Fall 2012

[Hamma]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/news-agn-instant-action-mlg-fall-2012-2906.htm

AGN PlanetSide 2 Instant Action: MLG Fall 2012 - YouTube

[sylphaen]

:thumbsup:

[Phantomdestiny]

if the new players don't understand they game then ps2 is gone suffer a lot

[Rago]

:) Great Work ! I appreciate you Heart-engagement on ps !
I like the AGN !

HEy Smed just said in it´s Twitter that we will have a Way to Try weapons before you Buy em ! Nice news.

[Mox]

The new player experience is indeed a critical point.

If there would be a real sanc SOE could setup a tutorial and a VR there.
I still dont understand why they hate the sanc so much.

[Hamma]

Thanks guys :D

Good to hear on the try before you buy.

[Mod]

I believe the stated reason for that is because it takes players out of the combat areas too much and slows down overall gameplay.

Back on topic, nice edition of the AGN IA, and well done for trying to steer lots of new players in the right direction. Hopefully it will get many new players coming back for launch.

[Aaron]

Man, I've really never truly considered how significant this is for new players. I've always known how to play Planetside. My big brother probably introduced it to me all those years ago. New players, on the other hand, have never even had to comprehend this type of genre. It's simply played differently than any other FPS/MMO out there. It's like a 4th dimension.

I think the quickest way that SOE can get new players to wrap their minds around this game is to have in-game video tutorials created specially for new players. Let's face it, there's some education that needs to be done in order to get efficient at finding the fight. You didn't just join a room when you clicked "Play," you entered a world.

[sylphaen]

If anything, I think players should be warned.

Warned that PS2 has a learning curve.
Warned that starting is rough.
Warned that some attention and thinking on their part is needed to get started.

So if they reach combat and get utterly destroyed and r**ed from all sides in a losing battle at a frontier outpost and get a 3/28 K/D in less than 10 minutes, it's normal. And they won't feel bad trying again, knowing it gets better after some battle experience.

I watched my friend's brother (a BF3 teenager) try PS2 and he was in linear mindset most of the time. He did not realize he could get flanked, encircled, ambushed in his base, etc... Nor that he could do it too.

He has been so used to playing in a box that he lacked spatial awereness. think he did not realize how large and fuzzy a front could be.


It is indeed the 4th dimension!

[DirtyBird]

Excellent show again, couldnt agree more.
Been concerned about new players for ages.
I'm playing with long term gamers and even they are getting frustrated about not knowing what to do in PS2.
We have squads up to help them and give direction and an objective.
New players are so important to the longevity of the game.

I think outfits can help out as well, even the mass recruiting zergfits.

[sylphaen]

There goes an idea !

What about a system tagging new players as beginners ? And some key to make it easier for them to request and find help ? And a way to stand out for people willing to help ?

A mentor/newbie matching system.

[GuyFawkes]

Great work, and addressing what is my number 1 concern for the game over and above everything else.

I watched a youtube video by BuzzCutPsycho where he gave the reasons for constantly inviting new people to his outfit, and everything he said made sense. An outfit that stops recruiting is a dying outfit, and the same simple principle applies to p2.

The problem I see is that if you have pop ups or links to external videos, peoples reaction is to clear clutter from their screen. I think the overlord/lady voice they use in game could be used more functionally. A familiar voice instructing players '' welcome soldier to the terran republic, please move to the equipment terminal to your right just in front of the spawn tube'' and so on. ''Theres a major battle going on at the crown right now and we could use your help, open your map by pressing 'M' and select the crown and use your instant action''
This could be a constant thing toggleable as an option in the settings. The new player isnt being drawn away to any virtual reality area. The voice, unless you toggle it off in options, would automatically kick in every time someone spawns in the warpgate.

[Vanir]

Way back when I first got Planetside 1, the thing that really helped me out the most in figuring out the game was the training program that was installed with PS1. If it wasen't for that I would not of known what to do or where to go. PS2 needs to have something similar.

[SixShooter]

Good episode :thumbsup:.

I have a friend that got into beta promptly stopped playing because he was bored and could not figure out where the fight was or how to do anything. Fuck tank spam, balance issues, meta game or whatever, the new player experience is going to be more important than anything to get people to play for more than 20 minutes before quiting forever.

People logging in for the first time are not going to have Hamma and Jennyboo around to hold their hand and show them the basics. This is a pretty big issue that will be critical to the longevity of the game.
:cheers:

[Hamma]

What about a system tagging new players as beginners ? And some key to make it easier for them to request and find help ? And a way to stand out for people willing to help ?

A mentor/newbie matching system.

Honestly in an FPS this just sounds like an opportunity to grief. This community already has it's fare share of people who get off ruining the play experience of others.

I watched a youtube video by BuzzCutPsycho where he gave the reasons for constantly inviting new people to his outfit, and everything he said made sense. An outfit that stops recruiting is a dying outfit, and the same simple principle applies to p2.

This isn't entirely true for outfits. Mine has been together for well over 10 years and gone many years without recruiting new players. Perhaps we are different though, our goal isn't volume or numbers it's quality over quantity and fun play with friends and making sure we know everyone personally.

For the game though I agree 100% if new players aren't joining and sticking around we end up with smaller fights and SOE ends up with less money because people never play long enough to buy items on the store.

[blbeta]

Hell I played PS1 for years and have put quite a few hours into PS2. I still have issues at times figuring out where a decent fight might be. The map isn't all that intuitive in helping find the fights. It does show hot spots in the bottom left but doesn't zoom to them unless it is a base it seems. Hovering over the map areas gives info on that hex, but still doesn't seem to be too accurate.

I am fine with it really, as I'll just jump in a plane and fly around until I find the good fight. Expecting new players to "find" a fight is gonna lose a lot of em.

There needs to be an easy way to find big fights at all times for new players.

Tutorial wise something as simple as TF2 tutorials would be great. No need for the practices maps, but just a little tutorials that show people the key terminals and ui elements. Planetside 2 is so robust there should be "chapters" that they can repeat later if need be on certain things.

Oh and I'd love the options for squad icons like the new vehicle icons that were added.

[Snipefrag]

Great vid, very profession from both of you. Starting to like the format. Totally agree about the new player experience, maybe this is something that we the community havent pushed that hard for because we are already so invested in the game it doesn't occur. Mission system, new player experience along with the meta game for vets are the most important things going forward IMO.

[Hamma]

Thanks Snipe! :D

[MrBloodworth]

I believe the stated reason for that is because it takes players out of the combat areas too much and slows down overall gameplay.

:huh:

Good video guys. However, such a depressing state of new gamers. Quite amazing really. Amazing you have to argue ( rightly so it seems ) for lowering the bar.

[Hamma]

Nobody is asking to lower any bars. What we are asking for is a way to get them into a structured play experience until they grasp a better understanding of the game.

[Tatwi]

Nobody is asking to lower any bars. What we are asking for is a way to get them into a structured play experience until they grasp a better understanding of the game.

Star Wars Galaxies suffered from the same problem at launch. While the intro sequence did explain how to move, fight, and understand the UI, it did not help people understand what they could DO in the game. Later on SOE made a new intro sequence and a nice, instanced, quest area that covered more of the game systems in detail, but even by the end of the game in 2011 there were still a lot of players who completely missed out on tons of content, simply because the game didn't show them that the content existed. Granted, explaining this stuff to other players made up A LOT of my own "content" in SWG, but still, the game itself should have done a better job of explaining what it had to offer and the basics of how things actually work.

Planetside 2 is a much simpler game than SWG, but PS2 still has enough depth to thoroughly confuse or overwhelm a new player. Personally, I think PS2 needs a linear, voice-over intro sequence similar to the one in the MMO called Fallen Earth. That sequence really delivers everything a new player needs to know about the lore, how to physically play the game, and general idea of why you are where you are and where you can go from there. I personally did not enjoy Fallen Earth (the setting is just too fallen and too Earthy for me), but I would recommend it to folks if for nothing more than to play that 10 - 20 minute opening tutorial sequence. It was genuinely fun and it did a great job of explaining what to expect from the game.

People will say, "Planetside isn't a PvE game! A PvE tutorial is stupid!" and the only sensible reply is, "Losing new players because they don't understand how to play the game and what the game has to offer, is stupid. A fun intro sequence is little more than an interactive and informative game trailer and we all love game trailers, right?". I see no reason to over react about making an instanced new player sequence, largely because it could be fantastically amazing in PS2's game engine! :lol:

There ya go SOE, get the EQ/EQ2/EQN/Vanguard quest teams to drop what they are doing for the next week and have them slam this intro into PS2 for launch! You can do it!

EDIT:

Alterately, it occured to me that this might be a neat way to achieve the same thing:

"The New Player Tutors" - Outfits dedicated to teaching people what PS2 is all about. (http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/the-new-player-tutors-outfits-dedicated-to-teaching-people-what-ps2-is-all-about.43188/)

The link takes you to a thread on the public section of the official PS2 forums.

[TehCandyMan]

I think Jennyboo hit the nail right on the head about the mission system needing to be in at launch... I don't think alot of potential players have the patience to run around and eventually find out what to do...

It's unfourtunate SOE seems so intent to release this on the 20th, I really feel like they are going to suffer as players try this out get frustrated and then leave for Black Op's 2 or another plain FPS. And in the long run that affects US, the planetside players. Since as we all know the less people that play the less support SOE will provide.

I really think they need to take a page from Blizzard here, and polish up this game before they release it. A good launch is critical for any MMO and I think even more so for a MMOFPS.

[Rivenshield]

I believe the stated reason for that is because it takes players out of the combat areas too much and slows down overall gameplay.
Yeah, and that's bullshit. We need a safe area to sit and study the map and gather our forces and for newbies to practice and ask questions. We also need a mechanism to attack continents from different directions, ie rotating warp gates. Otherwise we're going to be stuck fighting the same enemies over the same ground in the same bloody DIRECTION for eternity. Boooooorrrring.

I really think they need to take a page from Blizzard here, and polish up this game before they release it. A good launch is critical for any MMO and I think even more so for a MMOFPS.
Well, it's too late now. The suits at SOE have screwed the pooch, as per usual. We'll just have to cross our fingers and keep patiently insisting that things be put right.

[Hamma]

Yea it's coming out on the 20th now whether we like it or not.

[DHoff]

Just wanted to reiterate that yall did a great job. Jennyboo answered all my questions and everyone I saw around there when I walked by seemed to be having fun playing the game. I would've stopped by to play some myself, but I was too busy watching Starcraft and LoL. Plus, I can play at home so I wasn't as inclined to play.

I look forward to any other events yall go to in Texas, I'll definitely be there.

-Hoffburger

[Ghost Runner]

Good vid spot on! One idea is to do like Cod MW (the first one) did to get you ready to play was to put you through a practice ship capture in our case a base capture and maybe an ambush scenario as well.

[Rolfski]

I was kinda shocked after seeing this as I thought that within the e-sport community there wouldn't be too much trouble getting into a game like PS2.

This really needs to be addressed properly so I made a separate topic with a better suited title about this (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?p=852362#post852362). It's based on my own "new player" experiences after the latest patch, where they tried to solve some of these issues.

[MrBloodworth]

Nobody is asking to lower any bars. What we are asking for is a way to get them into a structured play experience until they grasp a better understanding of the game.

No. Really.

Big difference in making something assessable, and racing down the the lowest common denominator.

There is a point, as it should be, where a game stops trying to be all things to all people. No amount of code will help some people play a title.

PS2 keeps going for the 15-30 minute Warcraft/Session based shooter rule. and in doing so, they are watering down the entire reason for having a massive persistent world.

A great introduction is needed for any game. But what the people you showed seemed to want was constant direction, and constant action. To the point they, and you , were arguing that a 5 minute travel time "Was too long".

That's Ridiculous, go play a session based game. That's for you/Them. PS2 and Games that have such a huge world will always require a commitment more then 30 minutes, and it should never attempt lower this bar. Its not that kind of game, nor will it ever be, unless they add auto respawn right where you died.

[Hamma]

You are comparing apples to oranges and putting words in my mouth. Arguably the biggest problem with PlanetSide 1 was lack of a new player experience and direction. This isn't WoW where you jump in and get a quest to kill 12 rabbits, it's a game where the second you hit the ground you are dead and are presented with a list of spawns you know nothing about.

[MrBloodworth]

I have no issue with accessibility, or initial direction. That's not what you seem to argue for in your video, Nor does it seem to be what your representative slice wanted or needed.

Explaining systems and features is one thing, and should be done. Invalidating the massive world, or making sure there is never a lull in the pew pew in an attempt to conform to expectations of a session based shooter. Will be detrimental, and never work.

You can not make a persistent world FPS about a global war fit into to 30 minute bits, nor can you remove what seem to be EGREGIOUS ( The horror! ) travel times of 5 minutes.

If a 5 minute break in the gogogopewpewpewheadshot is to much for you and you consider it a failing. Guess what.

[Hamma]

If you think a mission system invalidates an MMOFPS then I guess I won't be changing your mind. If we continue to roll like PlanetSide 1 and don't make the game more accessible it will fail just the same as the first one did.

[Crator]

^ I see what you are saying about the mission system but at the same time I question why it hasn't even been tried in beta. They spoke of this mission system not too long after the announcement of PS2... Perhaps they are having issues with the viability of it? The battles move around so fast that missions would simply expire too fast for them to mean anything?

That's if you were speaking about the mission system as being something in the live game. I think it could still be in the live game to help teach the basics, but to organize or lead players in a direction on the battlefield, is it possible with the speed in which this game flows?

[MrBloodworth]

If you think a mission system invalidates an MMOFPS then I guess I won't be changing your mind. If we continue to roll like PlanetSide 1 and don't make the game more accessible it will fail just the same as the first one did.

I am not speaking of the mission system. I am talking about the features they keep adding that invalidate the world size. Travel time in a war game is important, so is stopping movement. However SOE seems intent on shooting to remove even a 5 minute drive. Because of session based shooter expectations. And what I can only explain as "If you are not shooting, we are failing" mentality.

The two things do not mix.

I look forward to the mission system.

[Hamma]

Ah, well then I've not been advocating those items.

In the current new player experience you just get dropped into a fight after that tutorial which means you die instantly because you haven't a clue whats going on. I hate that.. :lol:

[MrBloodworth]

Ah, well then I've not been advocating those items.

In the current new player experience you just get dropped into a fight after that tutorial which means you die instantly because you haven't a clue whats going on. I hate that.. :lol:

It is indeed, retarded. But directly in line with, what seems to be a pervasive "If you are not shooting, we are failing" mentality. For some reason, they have applied this to the new user experience.

But, if i may be snarky for a moment. Its quite a good sample of the rest of the PS2 experience. You spawn, and get camped. Here are some cert points. Enjoy.

Also, I say to you, Apathy is a form of condoning.

[MrBloodworth]

* The Instant Action cooldown is now 15 minutes.
* Squad spawn is now cross Continent.

And the march continues.

[Sunrock]

OMG how stupid where those that tested the game at the booth!?!?! My god!

But I guess this proves that Extra Credit is right when he talked about tutorials http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/tutorials-101