Infiltrators Useless Now?

[DHoff]

Without shotguns, they are going to be pretty useless. Sniping isn't helpful in the long run to capturing a continent and unlike PS1, hacking is way less useful.

Maybe the satchel charges that they intended to give them will make infiltrators useful again?

I was a full time infiltrator/MAX in PS1, but they are making that hard to do in PS2 and still be useful.

[VaderShake]

Without shotguns, they are going to be pretty useless. Sniping isn't helpful in the long run to capturing a continent and unlike PS1, hacking is way less useful.

Maybe the satchel charges that they intended to give them will make infiltrators useful again?

I was a full time infiltrator/MAX in PS1, but they are making that hard to do in PS2 and still be useful.

I don't know man, last Friday I wiped 25 people off a hill in under 5 minutes from 250+ meters which let the 20+ guys on my team push over that hill into a base much faster and with less casualties.......I think that was pretty useful helping capture that territory...

The Infiltrator is a tool, you just need to figure out the right applicaiton to get the job done.

[Timealude]

Ifniltrator is still pretty good, my only concern is with close range, as far as the beamer goes it still find it hard to defend myself with it at close range (or course I might have just not had enough practice with it.) The scout rifle..Im still not sure what they are classifying it as because from what i know a scout rifle is still just another sniper rifle....So from what I can see they arent making Infiltrators very viable close range and seem to be shoehorning it into a long range to medium range engagement only as far as VS weapons go. One of my outfit member suggested an SMG which I agree with them having if they are taking our shotguns away. Otherwise, I feel like they could just be asking us to be snipers only with no point of hacking except for defense purposes.

[xuur]

cant really say useless. INF didnt have shotguns all that long ago and were (and from what I can tell, still are) quite effective in certain roles.

[EVILPIG]

I would not call Infiltrators useless. Either way, Infil + Shotgun is more overpowered than Infil - Shotgun is underpowered. It would be great to expand on what they can do and that is coming.

[DHoff]

For sheer killing power, infiltrators are fine as it stands. The problem is that if you are trying to win control of a base, the sniper is less useful than any of the other classes going in for CQB in the bases.

In PS1, the "sniper" class could switch to a backup Lasher/Shotgun/Thumper/Rocklet/etc.

Either Shotguns need to come back, SMGs need to be put in, or the melee booster needs to be put in.

[moosepoop]

give sniper rifles red dot sight. thats ur close range weapon.

[Timealude]

give sniper rifles red dot sight. thats ur close range weapon.

they nerfed the hip fire on the semi auto sniper rifles.

[ringring]

Infil should not be CQB class. Giving them shotgun was the wrong direction.
Give them stuff to be sneaky at not to try to rack up kills.

[Beerbeer]

This is one class I haven't fully tried out yet, other than sniping.

Lol, I remember I would suit up as an infiltrator and torment people with those remote detonated explosives in ps1 when I got bored. Lol, fun times.

[Figment]

Without shotguns, they are going to be pretty useless. Sniping isn't helpful in the long run to capturing a continent and unlike PS1, hacking is way less useful.

Maybe the satchel charges that they intended to give them will make infiltrators useful again?

I was a full time infiltrator/MAX in PS1, but they are making that hard to do in PS2 and still be useful.

Full. Time. Cloak.

Screw shotguns. Give me explosives, pistols for defense, gen shield passing and covert (?) hacking. Shotguns? Pah.

For the record, I still hope they will make snipers their own suit/class at some point because as someone put it on the PS2 forums: Snipefils are like ninjas with longbows. It doesn't make sense.

[Ghoest9]

When did they remove shotguns?

[xuur]

last patch I think

[bullet]

Well thats disappointing. I love the infil in this game but forcing me to carry a sniper rifle while I'm infiltrating seems counter intuitive. Atleast let me switch to a suit where I can stay cloaked but I lose my main weapon. I thought this was the initial idea with the infiltrator but we have yet to see any developments on this.

I've found myself in numerous situations where I really wish I had access to boomers/C4, more abilities to sabotage enemy vehicles, and/or create some distraction to draw enemy soldiers away from the front lines.

[Figment]

I believe they did suggest at the PS1 full time infil returning post-launch when asked why the stalker suit was removed from the options. *fingers crossed*

[Ghoest9]

Well if they remove shot guns from infs they go from being reasonably useful to almost useless.

Yes you can snipe - its fun - it gets some kills- and its nearly useless.

The pistol is crap. Its good for shooting afk players and engineers repairing stuff.

With the shot gun you can actually help a squad. You arent as good ads a heavy but you make a positive difference at least.

[Saintlycow]

Allow infiltrators to hack stuff while cloaked. That way, we don't always get killed why we hack stuff, because that guy crouching next to a turret is extremely obvious.

[Dagron]

I like to play as a close up infiltrator, the shotgun provides a fun play style option and i think if they limited the cloak ability when combined with it things might work. Maybe a slower and noisier decloaking (kind of like that of the dead ringer in TF2) could make it fair, people would have plenty of warning to find and kill those shotgun infils before they were even allowed to shoot.

[Figment]

See SOE what you have done?

You made people think the infil class is about kill kill kill. So now that you are to become more about sabotage again people have become so bloodthirsty they think they are useless.


Thank you... For ruining the spirit of the class.

Battle avoiding people. We are not here to murder every player at will, we get to be stealthy and must use that element of surprise to kill, if we even dare to engage. That makes us fair. Shotguns, sniper rifles, those are way too much firepower for us. It makes us be less about stealth and careful, silent aproaching and more about killing.

For those of you who have never played true infil, you have no idea of the adrenaline rush you are missing out on. Timing is hardly important now, there is very little satisfaction from a kill, there is very little suspense in approaching, because you know there is very little you can do anyway and when you engage you are just another unit. So the enemy is hardly paranoid about your presence, most the time they see or hear you coming anyway...

That shotgun was both a crutch and a curse. The proper designed infil fights from a weak position, continuously avoiding contact to get to that strategic objective that allows your side to move in.

[ringring]

See SOE what you have done?

....

That shotgun was both a crutch and a curse. The proper designed infil fights from a weak position, continuously avoiding contact to get to that strategic objective that allows your side to move in.

Well said.

Has anyone ever said "watch out I think we have a cloaker around here"? Nope, me neither in ps2, but in ps1 it was common.

The cloaker class needs a lot of love but making it just another stat-padder is exactly the wrong way to go.

[Figment]

Being the target of a manhunt where 20 people chase you AND GETTING AWAY on nothing but your wits after you scared the bejeezus out of them and destroyed some of their base's vital systems, THAT is what infiltration is about.

[Tamas]

Shotgun = easy mode.
Sniper = requires you to aim at the head - last time I checked (today, +60 kills with bolt action) you can still headshot easily. I don't know why I wrote skill, it's also easy. Unless you can't aim slightly above due to compensate the bullet drop...
Pistol - good handgun, can kill a few guys before ammo runs out.

Infiltrate bases, blow up shield generators = team rolls in. Probably lack of imagination from some players as to what you can do with this class.

[Mox]

Sniping, cloaking, hacking..... Yeah this thing is really useless. Wtf!

[Sifer2]

The problem with Shotguns is it makes the Infiltrator too effective in close combat. It was essentially the go to class for CQC. Which it really shouldn't be. It's supposed to be a specialist that uses stealth. Now that the Shotgun is gone they have reason to buff them in other areas. Like give them a better Stealth device. They are giving them Scout Rifles too whatever those are. I doubt they are more Snipers probably similar to the Carbine.

[Ghoest9]

See SOE what you have done?

You made people think the infil class is about kill kill kill. So now that you are to become more about sabotage again people have become so bloodthirsty they think they are useless.


Thank you... For ruining the spirit of the class.

Battle avoiding people. We are not here to murder every player at will, we get to be stealthy and must use that element of surprise to kill, if we even dare to engage. That makes us fair. Shotguns, sniper rifles, those are way too much firepower for us. It makes us be less about stealth and careful, silent aproaching and more about killing.

For those of you who have never played true infil, you have no idea of the adrenaline rush you are missing out on. Timing is hardly important now, there is very little satisfaction from a kill, there is very little suspense in approaching, because you know there is very little you can do anyway and when you engage you are just another unit. So the enemy is hardly paranoid about your presence, most the time they see or hear you coming anyway...

That shotgun was both a crutch and a curse. The proper designed infil fights from a weak position, continuously avoiding contact to get to that strategic objective that allows your side to move in.

Oh hush - thats all BS.

The infil class here is nothing like it was PS1.

Hacking is not important here unfortunately. Their is no powerful knife attack.

Before shotguns the class was useful only as a sniper. All other activities were really a waste of time and you could have beem more useful playing another class.

If they totally redesign the game so snaeaking actually helped you would have a point - but they didnt.
So stop spouting BS.

[bullet]

Oh hush - thats all BS.

The infil class here is nothing like it was PS1.

Hacking is not important here unfortunately. Their is no powerful knife attack.

Before shotguns the class was useful only as a sniper. All other activities were really a waste of time and you could have beem more useful playing another class.

If they totally redesign the game so snaeaking actually helped you would have a point - but they didnt.
So stop spouting BS.
lulwut?

I think you're in agreement with him here. How is what Figment said bullshit? :huh:

[duomaxwl]

last patch I think

I don't think that's correct, I just got on with my infil and equipped a shotgun not 5 minutes ago.

[ringring]

I don't think that's correct, I just got on with my infil and equipped a shotgun not 5 minutes ago.
That's right, it's a future patch.

It hasn't been said it's in for tonights patch .... so I don't know, all we know is that perrfectstorm said it's being removed and a scout rifle added.

[Ghoest9]

Hes saying the shotgun was a crutch.
It wasnt.

The class is broken by deign. Adding the shotgun at least made it a useful fun class. With or with out the shotgun its nothing like the PS 1 infiltrator.

he saying "I want steak but you gave me pizza - so lets take the cheese off the pizza because that somehow makes it more like steak."

[ringring]

Nevertheless giving a cloaker a shotgun could never turn out well.

[Ghoest9]

I honestly didnt see the problem.
Its not really any better than the LA with a shot gun. They are both fast assult troops that are weak at holding a position.
You still have way less armor and you arent actually invisible.

2 competent players going head to head and it still favored the heavy over an inf.

[Kail]

Might be removing shotguns, but they are going to be giving pistols some attention. Someone on another forum was saying about sniper's getting a scout rifle or SMG instead, but I'm not sure where that's coming from.

http://twitter.com/PurrfectStorm/status/267066830282170369

[Ghoest9]

Well that would be nice.

I remember early on the plan was that pistols would be legitimate weapons but over time they lost out.

It would be nice if at really close range that did commensurate damage to carbines or assault rifles.

[Figment]

Hes saying the shotgun was a crutch.
It wasnt.

The class is broken by deign. Adding the shotgun at least made it a useful fun class. With or with out the shotgun its nothing like the PS 1 infiltrator.

he saying "I want steak but you gave me pizza - so lets take the cheese off the pizza because that somehow makes it more like steak."

No, that isn't what I was saying...

I'm saying the game should have never ignored the true infil role instead of ignoring it and favour the assassin role. Look up other threads on infils by my hand.

[PredatorFour]

The classic PS infil is now defunct due to the class system. I loved infil in the original...i could lay mines/boomers (c4) lay turrets... most of the classic infil`s tools has been given to the engy class.

[Dagron]

No, that isn't what I was saying...

I'm saying the game should have never ignored the true infil role instead of ignoring it and favour the assassin role. Look up other threads on infils by my hand.

The point is that they did make the infiltrator more an assassin than an actual infiltrator and it would take some serious redesign in a lot of areas to make them the way you want, from the class system to weapons to base layouts to who knows what else, and that seems extremely unlikely at this point.
That's what he meant by "they gave us pizza instead of steak", and taking away a couple of things from the infiltrator now won't make people who wanted a true infiltrator happy, it will only make people who like it as an assassin unhappy along with them.
The only thing that can be done now is to find a way to make it balanced and fun.

[Helwyr]

Lots of strong opinions here on what an Infiltrator ought to be, the beauty of an open cert and inventory system is they likely all would have been true.

IMO The Sniper in PS2 isn't useless in taking and defending territory (depends on the base) and the Sniper role is something the Infiltrator does well in PS2.

I didn't think the shotgun was OPed on an Infiltrator, it reminded me a lot of the old AMP and MagScat Infiltrators that used to run around in PS1. That said it's no skin off my nose that they're removing it, I'd much prefer a Carbine or AR like weapon. More than that I'd prefer a real cloak a pistol and a reliable knife.

The biggest gap in Infiltrator gameplay is what others have eluded to already, the lack of much reason to "infiltrate" to begin with. The class is all about killing because there isn't much else yet. Blowing generators as someone mentioned would likely be better done with LA than an Infiltrator.

[ringring]

Lots of strong opinions here on what an Infiltrator ought to be, the beauty of an open cert and inventory system is they likely all would have been true.

IMO The Sniper in PS2 isn't useless in taking and defending territory (depends on the base) and the Sniper role is something the Infiltrator does well in PS2.

I didn't think the shotgun was OPed on an Infiltrator, it reminded me a lot of the old AMP and MagScat Infiltrators that used to run around in PS1. That said it's no skin off my nose that they're removing it, I'd much prefer a Carbine or AR like weapon. More than that I'd prefer a real cloak a pistol and a reliable knife.

The biggest gap in Infiltrator gameplay is what others have eluded to already, the lack of much reason to "infiltrate" to begin with. The class is all about killing because there isn't much else yet. Blowing generators as someone mentioned would likely be better done with LA than an Infiltrator.
And that's sad. There were people who played infil because they didn't like or perhaps couldn't cope with the hurley-burley of fps and they found a role that fitted a more considered approach.

[PredatorFour]

And that's sad. There were people who played infil because they didn't like or perhaps couldn't cope with the hurley-burley of fps and they found a role that fitted a more considered approach.

Or just wanted to be stealthy,play the game more differently to all the HA AV clones out there, or more importantly .. have fun.

[Captain1nsaneo]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. Infiltrators aren't in the game yet.
Snipers are, but infils aren't.

As for the shotgun being like the AMP and Magscatter, well, the AMP and Magscatter were both very conditional weapons. You normally always wanted to get the drop on someone and hit them when they were exposed. As for how many you could kill between reloads I know if you were perfect the AMP could drop 2 people (15 per sans medpacks). The Magscatter had a massive spread so range really dictated shots to kill. But with either weapon your target got reaction time.
The shotguns from what I've seen are super lethal at close range (where a lot of infantry combat happens in bases) and the cloaker's ability to ambush naturally gets them into that range.

I'm going to go back and refer to what the devs said their idea behind the current cloak mechanic was. They said it was to ask as a gillie suit for sniper so they could move from position to position. Fair enough that's reasonable and it's designed as such. The system was never made to support or interact with shotguns. The fact that cloakers were allowed to use them at all speaks to me that some of the groups inside the dev team aren't communicating or aren't talking to each other. We're close enough to open beta that I don't think this problem will be solved between now and then but after it should be definitely addressed in some fashion that doesn't increase paper work.

[Figment]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=41034

[Hamma]

They were pretty upfront that the Shotgun on Infiltrators was just a test.

[Jaybonaut]

Full. Time. Cloak.

Screw shotguns. Give me explosives, pistols for defense, gen shield passing and covert (?) hacking. Shotguns? Pah.

For the record, I still hope they will make snipers their own suit/class at some point because as someone put it on the PS2 forums: Snipefils are like ninjas with longbows. It doesn't make sense.

This. This is sooo true.

[Helwyr]

[...]
I'm going to go back and refer to what the devs said their idea behind the current cloak mechanic was. They said it was to ask as a gillie suit for sniper so they could move from position to position. Fair enough that's reasonable and it's designed as such. The system was never made to support or interact with shotguns. The fact that cloakers were allowed to use them at all speaks to me that some of the groups inside the dev team aren't communicating or aren't talking to each other. We're close enough to open beta that I don't think this problem will be solved between now and then but after it should be definitely addressed in some fashion that doesn't increase paper work.

Yes, I'm fine with the cloak as a gillie suit for a Sniper, I'm not sure the current cloak is quite living up to even that though with the current visibility and of course the absurdly loud (de)activation noise. But the general idea of an imperfect short duration cloak for snipers is perfectly fine IMO.

I've also suspected that parts of the dev team don't communicate well. One of my pet peeves in any MMO or shooter is radar mechanics, and its implementation in PS2 is good example of this disconnect. The Vehicle design team have added loads of radar options for vehicles that detect Infantry which alone seems a rather dubious idea, but add to that the Infantry team has added no counters to vehicle radar even when such an option does exist for vehicles. This speaks to me of two teams designing in isolation from one another.