MAX AA still viable?

[Muro]

havent experienced the nerf myself

is the MAX AA still considered the best AA option or is the HA AA Rocket making name?

[SkilletSoup]

AA Max is only viable for kills if they are grouped up, or the pilot is terrible and has a death wish. Otherwise, they are primarily only good for forcing away approaching/hovering craft. Probably not worth buying or certing for a dual burster unless something changes. You shouldn't have to squad up bursters to take down a single ESF.

[Buggsy]

Last patch before beta shut down increased the COF so high you couldn't hit anything unless it was 100 meters or closer.

[The Heavy]

If you need AA just go with HA rocket launcher for now. Not everyone has counter measures and it's usually a 2 hit kill if they are dumb enough to hang around long enough.

[ChipMHazard]

The problem with the HA's AA is that it's only really effective en mass and mostly just function as an area denial weapon. It's easy to get away from the missiles before being shot down, especially if you have flares.
The situation, before they shut down the beta, was that pretty much the only way to effectively counter air was with air.
Ground based AA more or less became just an annoyance. The only times I've been shot down by ground AA was when I was dumb/cocky enough to hover while more than one AA MAX gave me a warm welcome.
I also got rather tired of having ESFs actually be able tank AA turrets, destroying them before being taken down themselves.

[Nasher]

2-3 people using the HA launcher is more effective. They can use flares, but you can fire the rockets much faster than they can use flares (esp. if you stagger the shots between you). If you can get 2 rockets to hit at the same time, it's an instant kill.

[Sifer2]

2-3 people using the HA launcher is more effective. They can use flares, but you can fire the rockets much faster than they can use flares (esp. if you stagger the shots between you). If you can get 2 rockets to hit at the same time, it's an instant kill.


Against bad pilots. Those with a sense of timing will have plenty of time to kill what they want to kill on one pass. Flare as soon as they know the rockets are coming. Then move out of range. One Flare counters an infinite number of AA rockets.

If it's true they did a last minute nerf to MAX AA then I would suggest to anyone who wants easy kills to just spend certs on flares, and rocket pods at launch. Nothing will be able to kill you but another ESF or Lib with upgraded nose cannon.

[Minor]

The problem with the HA's AA is that it's only really effective en mass and mostly just function as an area denial weapon. It's easy to get away from the missiles before being shot down, especially if you have flares.
The situation, before they shut down the beta, was that pretty much the only way to effectively counter air was with air.
Ground based AA more or less became just an annoyance. The only times I've been shot down by ground AA was when I was dumb/cocky enough to hover while more than one AA MAX gave me a warm welcome.
I also got rather tired of having ESFs actually be able tank AA turrets, destroying them before being taken down themselves.

Very accturate post. Air to air is the superiority force right now. It is intended to promote combined arms as well as more aircraft use.

Any other AA variant is meant as a defensive denial tactic. Real RPG AA rockets such as the US Stinger missile have limited range which I believe to be 5 miles or so. Mobile launchers go up to 20-100 miles (guess).

I can confirm the AA TR grounder rpg to be effective against stock aircraft. AA maxes do hurt a stock liberator slowly and are very hard to see from the air. The Zepher cannon can blind spam an AA max to death however. The tower turrets when grouped are deadly if you stray too close in a liberator, and any kind of fighter is way more maneuverable and quick than a liberator.

For true air superiority, you need aircraft.

[Adventis]

They should make AA more interesting and potent, not in pure damage but in side effects, make TR AA penetrate and damage the pilot himself, NC can have radioactive rounds that cause various kinds of problems.

For VS allow the AA to disable systems on aircraft, Ion cannons really (obviously it should technically just blot them out the sky, but that is rather unfair.)

[Rumblepit]

i know they already have 1 set of upgraded busters in game, i assume from the cost,think it was 750 or 1000 ,they will be very effective.they will more then likely have a A2G launcher for the AA max as well.

[Rbstr]

Personally I prefer ground-AA to be more of an area-denial weapon.

Air should be able to dive in and launch some rockets and get out against a few flak cannons. They should be able to abort the run and get out of there before simply exploding. They just shouldn't be able to loiter and they should need to have to figure something out with the damage before they come back for another round.

Infantry with an AA rocket or Burster shouldn't be taking down fighters easily.

[Helwyr]

If we're to go by the last build of beta AA will not be a good option. At least on Day one I don't expect ESFs to be farming ground units, because the smart ones will have purchased A2A missiles and shooting down all the others before they can purchase flares.


Personally I prefer ground-AA to be more of an area-denial weapon.

So, are you saying this as someone who will be playing frequently as ground based AA? Or are you another Air player that thinks they should be able to kill anything while their hard counter should only be able to scare you a little and kill nothing?

[Dkamanus]

The BIG problem with AA is that you see an enemy ESF taking 30 Flak shots and not being shot down. As said, ESF should be hit-and-run, not hover-and-blow-shit-up. Its kinda messed up. Good AA should be able to destroy ESF, but they mostly serve only as Area denial.

There are no plains in real life that can take THAT kind of beating and survive. Shouldn't happen here as well.

[Dreamcast]

Personally I prefer ground-AA to be more of an area-denial weapon.

Air should be able to dive in and launch some rockets and get out against a few flak cannons. They should be able to abort the run and get out of there before simply exploding. They just shouldn't be able to loiter and they should need to have to figure something out with the damage before they come back for another round.

Infantry with an AA rocket or Burster shouldn't be taking down fighters easily.

Why the Air entitlement to not be taken down by Infantry?

I can destroy a tank by myself if I am in the right position.

I think AA missiles should destroy a ESF if we hit them super close.....A lot of these ESF have no respect for AA missiles because all they need to do is push a button to become immune to missiles via flares.


If Infantry can't blow up aircraft, at least Vehicles designed as AA should like Skyguard.

[Sifer2]

Personally I prefer ground-AA to be more of an area-denial weapon.

Air should be able to dive in and launch some rockets and get out against a few flak cannons. They should be able to abort the run and get out of there before simply exploding. They just shouldn't be able to loiter and they should need to have to figure something out with the damage before they come back for another round.

Infantry with an AA rocket or Burster shouldn't be taking down fighters easily.


Yes they should since Air can take out Infantry easily. Especially with Rocket Pod spam. So either remove their ability to attack ground or make ground AA effective so it's a fair fight. Otherwise this game will not do well in the long run since a lot of people prefer to play on the ground, and will not enjoy be mindlessly farmed by air with no way to fight back.

And as far as aria denial being AA's only role. You think people will really want to play AA if they are designed to never get kills thus never get xp? I like to fly aircraft too but they are overpowered, and I know it when i'm flying, and nothing can kill me but other ESF's. And i've also tried to play AA an realized how broken it is. Tons of effort just to scare off bad pilots who deserved to be taken down for their hover spam.

[Rbstr]

A tank can take out infantry easily. Why do you think it's any different when it's an aircraft?

There's a big difference between a dude with a rocket launcher taking down aircraft with impunity and an anti-air ground vehicle ruining an airplane's day.
Especially when infantry classes are free and the tank and aircraft cost resources.

A pilot that gets hit by an ("an". You guys seem to have a really hard time with comprehension. "An" would be singular) infantry based rocket and runs should get out. The dude hovering and spamming rockets should go down.
Just like a tank doesn't evaporate when faced with an infantry dude but can still die, air should be the same.

[Dkamanus]

The thing is, what does easily means? Having to unload 56 shots of flak on an airplane, hitting all of them, meaning one kill = easy? If you actually trying to fly on an area with 4 MAXes being dedicated AA you are supposed to die, unless you are one hell of a pilot.

And people were getting pissed off that they were hovering and getting owned by flak. Its the way it is, and should be. You want to make good use of those pods? Make strafing runs, not hover above AA and expect to live.

[Dreamcast]

A tank can take out infantry easily. Why do you think it's any different when it's an aircraft?

There's a big difference between a dude with a rocket launcher taking down aircraft with impunity and an anti-air ground vehicle ruining an airplane's day.
Especially when infantry classes are free and the tank and aircraft cost resources.

A pilot that gets hit by an ("an". You guys seem to have a really hard time with comprehension. "An" would be singular) infantry based rocket and runs should get out. The dude hovering and spamming rockets should go down.
Just like a tank doesn't evaporate when faced with an infantry dude but can still die, air should be the same.

Yeah a tank can take out infantry easily like aircraft.....Only difference is that Infantry can actually kill tanks, Like I said I can single handily take out a tank.

I can't take out a plane single handily or even with other infantry since they have immunity from missles with flairs and can easily run away.

A dude hovering/spamming shouldn't be able to use flares instantly IMO....or any pilot for that matter....it should take a while for the flares to work.


Air has a huge advantage compared to Vehicles in terms of survivability.


Is sad that

Infantry>Air/vehicles

Vehicles>Air/Infantry

Air>AIR.


Since no vehicle or infantry can take on AIR single handily but Air can take on anybody single handily

[Reaver]

AA has to be grouped to be effective at killing air in the current meta and hopefully stays that way. The problem with making AA very good at killing air craft is that due to the render distance pilots take fire from 2 to 3 hexas a time. This can be potentially a lot of maxes or skyguards laying into an esf, and this is magnified ten fold when AA is powerful because everyone pulls one when air shows up on scene. Right now its the reverse because AA is so weak no one pulls an AA max unless the esf starts becoming a real problem.

In my opinion the current AA max damage and accuracy is acceptable and does it's job, you get two AA maxes working in tandem and you will kill the unlucky esf who crosses your area. The problem is finding people who are willing to bite the bullet and pull them. So the real solution I think is increasing the xp for assists and maybe even damage done regardless if you kill your target or not. This will create an incentive for people to actually use the AA max when they're on their own and not coordinating with others.

My rant aside and to answer your question, its going to shift on which will be better. For the first week or two while no one has certed flairs the HA launcher will be the best AA option. Once flairs become common place flakk will be the better AA weapon type.

[Goldeh]

Trying to be dedicated AA is more punishment than reward.

I think the irony will be for most who are interested in being a dedicated AA is that they'll get their certs for their AA, from not being any where near AA.. If this kind of damage stays in, then it needs to have a different xp system.

A 'Get it Now' instead of 'Get it later'.

[Ranik Ortega]

AA has to be grouped to be effective at killing air in the current meta and hopefully stays that way. The problem with making AA very good at killing air craft is that due to the render distance pilots take fire from 2 to 3 hexas a time.


Completely disagree and every decent player should as well. Max / AA rendering issues aside. It takes 2-4 of every type of AA to have any chance to kill a single ESF. Even skyguards have to work in groups of 2-3 to accomplish anything.

The same is far from true of A2G.

Nerf A2G into the floor, or give AA it's teeth back. Then we can call it balance.

Until then? It's just entitled pilots trying to keep AA gimped.

[Sifer2]

Nerf A2G into the floor, or give AA it's teeth back. Then we can call it balance.

Until then? It's just entitled pilots trying to keep AA gimped.


I feel the same way. Though they can't really nerf the A2G capabilities of the Liberator at least without making it useless for what it's really meant to do. I guess one solution is making it mostly about range. Make AA accurate, and powerful at lower altitudes. Make the pods on ESF's have such terrible accuracy you can't kill ground with them unless your willing to risk going into the danger zone where single AA units can, and will kill you before you have time to get away. Libs with their longer range artillery cannon would be less vulnerable.

Then I imagine we would see more pilots using ESF's for air combat instead of farming ground with impunity. And their primary targets would be the high altitude Libs. Might actually create a circle of counters again instead of just ESF/Lib > Everything.

[Rothnang]

Air should be able to dive in and launch some rockets and get out against a few flak cannons.

I would completely agree if it wasn't for the fact that launching some rockets has the potential of granting you kills, so it's not a balanced situation. Fighter comes in, kills something and runs away may be better than fighter comes in, kills something and then sticks around and kills something else - but its still a losing proposition for the AA players.

[maradine]

Increase AA lethality.

Increase pilot threat awareness instrumentation.

Problems solve selves.

[Reizod]

havent experienced the nerf myself

is the MAX AA still considered the best AA option or is the HA AA Rocket making name?

As long as the rendring distance is broken for us Pilots, the Max AA is indeed one of the best AA deterents.

[Sturmhardt]

Usually I don't care too much about aircraft and AA because I'm an infantry guy. But recently aircrafts have been harrassing me all over the map so I guess AA could use a buff because right now aircraft are EVERYWHERE and they annoy me.

[Buggsy]

Personally I prefer ground-AA to be more of an area-denial weapon.

Strange, that's how I feel about air. Rocketpods should tickle me, and drive me away, not kill me.

[Buggsy]

Completely disagree and every decent player should as well. Max / AA rendering issues aside. It takes 2-4 of every type of AA to have any chance to kill a single ESF. Even skyguards have to work in groups of 2-3 to accomplish anything.

The same is far from true of A2G.

Nerf A2G into the floor, or give AA it's teeth back. Then we can call it balance.

Until then? It's just entitled pilots trying to keep AA gimped.

Option A: Nerf rocketpods into the floor. They should not be able to kill tanks in the rear in 1.5 seconds. The only way you could possibly balance rocketpods with AA is to allow AA to kill an ESF in half that amount 0.75 seconds at over 200 meters range.

Rocketpods kill infantry in 1 second, kill tanks in 1 second, kill other ESF's in 1 second, they are the fastest unit in the game. The only way to balance rocketpods with AA is to also make AA so insanely and stupidy powerful it would be insta-death for ESF's. Unfortunately that also imbalances liberators/galaxies. So the only option is A) Nerf rocketpods into the floor.

__________________


I figured out how it seems like you die in less than 1 second to rocketpods in a tank, while pilots insist it takes longer than 1 second. The Doppler effect increasing frequency. An ESF is traveling at 200 KPH, shooting rockets at what 100 KPH. It might take 2-3 seconds of trigger time in the air, but on the receiving end it is actually 1 second between when the rockets start hitting you and when they stop (seems like insta-death).


http://archive.ncsa.illinois.edu/Cyberia/Bima/Images/doppler.gif