So I made a couple outposts...

[Malorn]

Hey folks, I've been at SOE for a few weeks now getting adjusted to the new job and starting off in the world design team fixing a few bugs and getting the hang of level design. Recently you may have noticed a few new outposts and many re-vamps of existing outposts. Among those, I was responsible for two.


Amerish - Cobalt Communications

This outpost was moved and re-built about 500m away from its previous location for improved flow between Heyoka and Kwahtee. It was my first outpost! I was going for some good infantry combat and a cool little mountain outpost with good overwatch over the road out of Heyoka. I also put in several antenna to see how many scythes would get horse-shoed! It is a communications facility afterall! :)


http://i.imgur.com/AzVFm.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/DoAxG.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qYZWL.jpg


Esamir - Jaeger's Fist

New outpost on Esamir at the junction between Andvari Bio lab, Jaeger's Crossing, and the Traverse. The position of this is in the rocky foothills and at the crossroads of three outposts where a lot of tanks roll through. Because of this I tried to make this into a tank-breaker outpost where infantry could easily get into those rocky hills and make it rough for tanks coming through and to help blunt a large tank force. Lots of cover for those that spawn there, shelter from aircraft, and easy access to the rocky hills are the key features of Jaeger's Fist.

http://i.imgur.com/067vq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/CuvKc.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9253L.jpg


If any of you have feedback on these outposts I'd gladly take some constructive criticism! I'd like to know if I achieved what I was going for with them and whether they are enjoyable. And of course if there are any really bad aspects I'd like to know that too so I can learn and correct. Anything you really like at them that you'd like to see more of at future outposts?

[Crator]

Sounds very nice Malorn! Thank you for giving some props to defenders! You rock! :thumbsup:

[cbarton]

Great job Malorn.. Miss seeing you around on Emerald back in the day. Didn't realize that you joined SOE, grats on that too...

[BigpermCML]

Congrats on the SOE job!

Can't remember spending time at either of them lately, but I'll try to check em out Tuesday :)

[Hamma]

Awesome! I'll be sure to grab some video of them for our release edition of Instant Action. :D

[haberman13]

Thanks for sharing Malorn! You joined an amazing dev team, grats on the job.

I have no feedback for you :/ but on Tuesday I'll hit these outposts with a Reaver and check them out :)

Can't wait for release!

[Grognard]

Hiring this guy is probably the best move SOE has made for PS2 so far...

I cant wait until next year to see the sick demented mind of Malorn strewn across Auraxis...

Keep kicken ass Malorn, I can see you put a lot of thought into the flow/design of the game, and thats my feedback to you.

[EVILPIG]

Awesome Malorn, can't wait to critique.

[Dagron]

I sense some big fights at those locations on day 1, everyone here is gonna head there to see your work. Malorn, you're the spark plug in the PS2 war machine. :lol:

[SKYeXile]

You should make an outpost called "Dagger's Demise" near the TR warpgate on Esamir.

There is no daggers anymore, they realised most of their platoon is made up of dull objects, so they're now spoon 1 through to 127.

[Mechzz]

Heh, good stuff Malorn, glad to see you're making your mark already. Looking forward to trying these out, although to be honest I was hardly on Esamir during beta. Amerish one will be cool to try.

On a related note, will you get a chance to design a "Clegg's Landing" area with lots of derelict planes like you suggested in post ages ago? I thought that was a cool idea at the time.

[Figment]

Ah so that was your doing. :) I saw Jeager's Fist Malorn - it's an improvement in defensibility, but since it's also very 2 dimensional in setup it's only an improvement in defensibility if the enemy comes directly from the south. Still, I like the "buffer zone" that's facing towards the south a lot.

However, IMO it at the very least requires walk ways on the west and east walls as well to give those areas minimal defendability (it's also possible to increase the orientation angles for the defenders by 30 degrees on each side to face SW and SE a bit more)).

It's a little bit harder to camp the spawnroom with vehicles due to the elevated location wrt the ground, the couple small walls and the ridge covering. However, since it's still a single room and not very central with no "compound buffer" area to the north, it's very easy to camp still. The three times I've fought there as NC, the brunt of the attack came from the north and the south perimeter was obviously completely ignored (particularly the east and north sides give a height advantage to the attacker). Since the spawn shack is on the northern edge, it was still one of the first things to fall to camping. :/

The hills can be reached relatively easily, but are also quick to be swarmed with attackers, especially if the attack comes from the north as stated before. Hence I would still suggest a defensive (walled) perimeter on top of the ridge facing north in particular. Much like a Motte and Bailey really. You could use a minor maze of walls to act as tank traps as seen below at any wall exits.

____....____
...._____

If the separate spawn building design philosophy (separate from vitals like capture point) has to remain, then I'd place the spawn room inside another building with three exits to different sides and preferably different rooms of said building, which would then require three separate groups of infantry to completely camp the spawns themselves or three to four groups of enemies to camp the outside of the building. If you could have multi-layer AND multi-directional exits (3-6) from that spawn building (not just the spawn room) too, it would provide options for the defenders to find a weakness in the camp and would stimulate fighting much more.

With regards to general building design, internal doors and stairs should never directly face another door either. There should always be tough angles (double 90 degree angles, or (more than) 90 + more than 90 degrees angles, so they face away from one another). That reduces the effectiveness of a door camp by not extrapolating the camp inside too far.

Preferably I'd still go with a design where control points are in the same building complex as the spawns (even if they're equally far away). Just to give defenders a chance to defend while avoiding facing all enemies (particularly the heavily armored once with the instant big splash damage weaponry - aka tanks/Libs) at once. The use of covering catwalks and semi-open superstructure to create that kind of hard to hit corridor/area is an option.



Aside from walkways, could you make ES-shielded gun loop holes in walls without walkways? I'd also look into using parapets as well (one sided walled walk way with gun loop holes and a small roof). This should make it harder to approach a walled side. Currently the walls IMO provide more protection to the attacker than defender.

I'm also pondering on if you could make use of these walls to create trenches (can partially cover the outside of the trenches in snow so other than light assault can jump in) that lead to pillbox bunkers outside of the wall (possibly with some sort of ES shield), which would be vulnerable to someone getting into the trench and firing from behind (and perhaps grenades and flamethrowers?), but could control specific (limited) angles of terrain with MANA turrets, guns and AV.

So you'd have the following crossection of a base defense perimeter:


................||
_______/==||\-------- [===]


Low CY - (stairs) - wall walk - embattlements with merlons and crenels AND/OR parapet wall with gun loops - (stairs (leading to ES shield in wall?)) - trench - 'forward' pillbox

Some pillboxes could be linked like the external bunkers in PS1, so you would only need to breach one trench to fight your way to the other pillbox and take that out too. Pillboxes could have degrees of vision between 80º and 270º.

Of course a IFF locked ES shield could be an interesting alternative to doors (and perhaps could deactivate the shield in the firing opening). Disabling these kind of defenses would give extra minor objectives and roles for infils and other units.

Note that wall walks should have only have the side facing away from the center protected with (good) cover, so you can shoot from a distance anyone coming over the walls. Considering the jetpacks, they'll be coming over everywhere so that'll be hard to hold anyway.

It would be possible to in some (larger) bases replace sections of the wall embattlements with tall shields the defender can pass (or even shoot) through, so jetpacks can't get over the walls everywhere until a generator has been destroyed (by infils?). To make it more difficult for jetpacks to get in somewhere, a wall can also be designed to slant forward at the top:

...../ (hoard?)
..../ (slanted wall facing out)
...| (shield/wall)
...| (shield/wall/battlement)
== (wall walk)
==\ (rampart)

[ringring]

Very cool Malorn.
Is there any chance of getting a couple of bird's eye view screen shots for us to drool over while we wait for the the doors to be opened or is that something that requires about 3 levels of authorisation?

:)

[bpostal]

I've no feedback at this time as I'd not really checked those compounds out yet but hot damn playin horseshoes with Scythes sounds like a blast!

[SGTalon]

I had no idea that SOE followed my advice and hired you! Well I feel like i have made my contribution to PS2 now =)

Honestly though, glad to hear you have one of those "Dream Jobs"! I was wondering where you have been. I keep watching for your posts but they don't seem to be around. Now I know why.

Now get to making Auraxis as awesome as it can be.

[Babyfark McGeez]

God, i wish i would get paid for mapping. Then again i left the "scene" at around UT2K4 lol.
Grats on scoring that job man!

As for your actual work, can't comment since i have not seen those two particular outposts in your modified glory yet.
How about to sneak in some underground tunnels for the next one(s)? Or is the forgelight engine really not capable of making holes into the terrain? ^_^

[basti]

Allright.

All VS, avoid those two Outposts at all costs. There may be traps hidden that go of whenever a VS steps on them. :D


Anyway, good to see you are doing well.

Hamma, get this guy a dev flair already! :p

[Figment]

Shhh he's incognito. :P

[MrBloodworth]

When I get a chance, i'll take a look.

[Ritual]

Some overhead screenshots would of been nice.

This post is a big tease. No PS2 servers, dev post telling us to check out the outposts he helped shape. :cry:

[Malorn]

I'll post screenshots, but the approval process takes 22 hours.

[Ritual]

I'll post screenshots, but the approval process takes 22 hours.

:evil:

[basti]

Some overhead screenshots would of been nice.

This post is a big tease. No PS2 servers, dev post telling us to check out the outposts he helped shape. :cry:

Hes a dev now, its his right to tease us. :D

[Malorn]

OP updated with pictures.

[Wrekriem]

Wow Malorn! I'm happy for you, impressed and glad SOE took you on. I remember reading some of your incredibly well put together posts in the tech test days and agreeing with your insights and constructive ideas. To see that you've made you way to SOE and are actually a part of the game design now is quite inspiring :) Well done man, and I'll keep an eye out for your outposts :)

[Littleman]

Second pic, left most building, balcony closest to the "fourth wall:" are those stairs leading off to oblivion? I can't get a good look to see if there's a trail there or not.

[Malorn]

Second pic, left most building, balcony closest to the "fourth wall:" are those stairs leading off to oblivion? I can't get a good look to see if there's a trail there or not.

That's a support strut, not stairs. Just camera angle trickery. That is the capture building and the back side overlooks the valley toward Heyoka with a long balcony. There is no way up there unless you are LA. There's only two entrances for non-LA to Cobalt:

1) the back-side mountain, which is in pic 2, lower-right corner. This can be reached from either side and Sunderers can drive up to where the mossy rocks are.

2) the narrow trail up the West side, shown in pic 3 in the lower right corner.

[Hamma]

Nice :D

[Rothnang]

I like the new outposts with a few more walls around them, however one thing I really hate is when walls have gaps in them that Vanguards and Prowlers can drive through but Magriders get stuck because they are wider.

[Witchkrapht]

Looking forward to checking these out!

[Beerbeer]

Nice. Can't tell for sure from the perspective of the pictures, but it looks like vehicle spawn room door spamming has been minimized (or outright eliminated), which is great IMO.

[Grognard]

On a related note, will you get a chance to design a "Clegg's Landing" area with lots of derelict planes like you suggested in post ages ago? I thought that was a cool idea at the time.


LOL, he SO needs to do this... This is our communities history! It is his solemn duty to make it happen :)

[Fear The Amish]

Pretty sure i was fighting at Jaegers on last day of beta... was a REALLY fun base to fight at best part was one of the doors to the spawn room is accessed by a bridge between it and another building then goes from there into a stair way. so i was basically crouched on that stair way and just occasionally standing up which would only show top of my head and could shoot over and was just rolling the NC like ninepins. very defensible but not a meatgrinder like tech plants have become. big thumbs up malorn.

[Ritual]

Cobalt Communications.

The second screenshot has a good angle of the tower antenna on the right that I want to point out. That spot is the best vantage point for a defender, and the most effective spot for Anti Air, it might even possibly have lines of sight to the road. Outposts are supposed to be in the defenders favor right? It looks like the only way to get up there as a defender is on the hillface facing the second screenshot that Malorn posted (at least in the heat of battle). In the third screenshot that Malorn posted it looks to be where the attackers would be coming from. That side also looks to be the weak spot in the defenses basically because of the rocky cover and short distance from the road to the hilltop. If I was an attacker I would head straight for that tower. Its a relatively short distance to the top of the hill and I then get a vantage point over the rest of the outpost. I think you should buff that tower area more in the defenders favor, to make attack's from other directions as viable.

I uploaded some screenshots to show my idea.

In this first screenshot it shows where the defenders will go to get to that vantage point. The blue,red line is the path. I added some thick red lines in areas that need more cover for defenders on that path because the hillside is totally exposed. That area is important for the defense of the outpost in general, since you can defend attacks from both sides from it.

http://imageshack.us/a/img72/5010/cobalt2.jpg

In this next screenshot it shows where I believe the attackers will be coming from based on the road being closest in that direction. It's also the side with the path of least resistance in order to get "within the base". The red lines show what I feel is the best attack route because if you take that hill, you will soon own the base. The Thick red lines are where there needs to be protected firing positions for the defenders. Vehicle barriers would make excellent cover. It might also stop a vehicle from driving up those footpaths raining down fire at the buildings from the hilltop.

http://imageshack.us/a/img163/5277/cobalt3.jpg

I would raise the foundation of the tower so that it doesn't sit level with the hill. To give it a little more height. I don't consider railings cover because they don't stop bullets effectively. I recommend the vehicle barriers.

Continued in next post...

[Ritual]

The terrain of Cobalt Communications.

I think this is a huge flaw the team has been making in designing these outposts and bases. Every outpost and base seems to be way too porous. So many entrances, all over. Needs to stop. Focus the battles where it should be in order to be fun.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8858/cobalt3new.jpg

The brown line represents where you should stretch the big high spire cliffs so that it essentially blocks access into the outpost from that area. Outposts are castle's remember?

The blue box is where you should move the vehicle ammo dispenser.

This would get rid of the shortest routes into the base and make people actually fight over the hill I talked about in my last suggestion. It leaves a few ground level routes in as well, but not so many that it becomes stupid.


The world and base designers are the one's who mold fights, not the players. How you design these bases are how the battle will unfold in very predictable ways. I'm still not happy with the designs of these outposts. The team needs to understand this is more a strategy game then it is a mindless FPS. Prolonged battles are good. Defendable positions are good. Focusing attackers here or there is good. You have always explained your philosophy. I will respect that. You just have a LOT of work to do to impress me.

I will rate this outpost a very generous 7 out of 10. There are only a handful I would rate above that so consider yourself off to a real good start.

[Malorn]

Cobalt can't be taken by the direction you indicate. If for some reason non-LA can get up there let me know and I'll fix it. LA should be the only ones not getting in via the two choke points and that's by design. Advantage of being LA.

[Ritual]

Cobalt can't be taken by the direction you indicate. If for some reason non-LA can get up there let me know and I'll fix it. LA should be the only ones not getting in via the two choke points and that's by design. Advantage of being LA.

Cool. I havent tried them yet having way too much fun right now :)

Don't mind my feedback it might be totally dumb, it might not be.

I'm just an old PS1 vet still getting used to the new scope of PS2. Will probably take many many months to even see how battles unfold in these outposts if not a year, so my feedback is premature.

I just always liked outposts that really look badass and secure. Like battlements. Catwalks, walls, turrets, chokepoints, secure spawns, etc.

[Babyfark McGeez]

Sooo, what about them tunnels? ^_^

(If the forgelight engine isn't capable of "cutting" into the terrain just reply with a knowingly smiling smiley :p ).

[Goldeh]

Jaeger's Fist - Feedback

When NC had to defend it. we held out for a bit, we had the front entrance locked down.

BUT!

The surrounding hills were our downfall..they ended up encircling us, and camped the spawn.

1. The surrounding hills(?) provided cover for the advancing faction.

2. the area outside of Jaeger's Fist is generally flat allowing tanks to quickly manuever.

3. The hills were too steep on the defenders side, so defenders can't retaliate.

[Tatwi]

Hey Malorn, I was thinking all beta that a base should go here,

http://www.planetside-universe.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=978&stc=1&d=1353722364

on Indar. I thought that SOE would eventually get around to putting one here, as it's such an obvious dead spot, but that has not happened yet. I noticed in the launch version that there is a new choke point valley and a large, flat hill in this area. This makes putting a base here an even better idea!

My personal thoughts about features this outpost could have,

- Steep spillway into the crater, protected by a shield at the top.
- Tank spawn with reloading tower.
- Plateau style base, with two road approaches and one foot approach (East into the crater, SW heading up from the new choke point valley).
- Lots of AA turrets - it's in an important spot to harass aircraft in that region, so sticking a lot of AA turrets at would make it an important base to own or lock down.

[Electrofreak]

Sooo, what about them tunnels? ^_^

(If the forgelight engine isn't capable of "cutting" into the terrain just reply with a knowingly smiling smiley :p ).

I've seen a few arches and short tunnels in game so I doubt there's any engine limitation there.

[Babyfark McGeez]

Yes, but the arches and tunnels i saw were all suspicously looking like "meshes", objects that are being put onto the terrain.
Real "cutting" into the terrain is something i have not seen yet.

[Babyfark McGeez]

Sooo, what about tunnels, mhh?
Or water?

Really don't want to come off as annoying here, i'm just curious. Have yet to see "real" tunnels and "real" water.

Edit: Also a limitation in the form of not being able to cut holes into the terrain means basements below the surface would be quite tricky to make (and possibly a reason why we are not seeing any).

[Sturmhardt]

There is real water near the shadespire farms on amerish,it's just not very deep and could use some tweaking of the flow effect, but it's there :)

[Figment]

There is real water near the shadespire farms on amerish,it's just not very deep and could use some tweaking of the flow effect, but it's there :)

I presume he means intraversable water. ;)

[Rivenshield]

Cobalt can't be taken by the direction you indicate. If for some reason non-LA can get up there let me know and I'll fix it. LA should be the only ones not getting in via the two choke points and that's by design. Advantage of being LA.

God it's refreshing to see and hear from somebody that understands that 'defense' doesn't just mean 'counter-zerging.'

Malorn, old comrade... at risk of sounding Doukishly over-the-top melodramatic, you may be the last best hope for this game to unfuck itself. While you work, other bases are being nerfed. The tech plants have their generators OUTSIDE now, FFS.

More bouncy pads. More bland posts from the rest of the dev team about 'active defense' being the end-all. More tripe about 'keeping the game moving.' And now this ridiculous insta-switching of empires within game so I can infiltrate the enemy, blow *their* gen, then switch back to my 'own' side. All these finely calculated moves to appease the ADS mid-late teeniebopper demographic that will get bored and melt away in four to six months...

We need you. Your expertise as an engineer and old-school gamer, your erudite analysis of game mechanics and base design... all of it. Press on. And continue to keep us posted.

[p0intman]

main problem with infantry combat is a2g dominance via liberators and rocket pods, otherwise base design is mostly fine, as far as that goes. There needs to be less campy situations with air and tanks overall across the board with all bases and outposts. If you were responsible for the tech plants recently, that was a backwards move.

[bpostal]

Man, I still haven't gotten a chance to get down to Jaeger's fist with the notable exception of a brief, late to the party defense and there's no way in hell I'm going to base anything off of that.
May have to temp. switch factions to get time down there.