TKing a Sundie to put yours down...

[VGLance]

I had my sundie deployed in a battle and after 10 or so minutes, some a-hole heavy assault guy tries destroying it. Some random friendly noticed and killed him while I was repairing the vehicle. But a minute later, one of his buddies rolls up in a vanguard and destroys it.

I can only assume it's because they wanted to deploy their own and get xp for spawns and couldn't put it where they wanted to because mine was down first.

There needs to be a way to stop this from happening. The only thing I can think of without completely getting rid of friendly fire is to make it so that you become weapon locked if you do a considerable amount of damage to the same vehicle in a short period of time.

That would prevent the vanguard from rapid firing the sundie but still allow for the accidental first shot or accidental rapid fire from an automatic weapon and not cause a weapon lock.

I don't believe in any kind if complaint filing system because you bog down customer service with an impossible task of policing the sheer volume of a-holes. You need an automated system with enough AI to punish the bad without hurting the good.

So I'm not going to suggest any kind of option to file a ticket against the player. This needs to be handled more efficiently. But it needs to be handled.

It speaks volumes about a person's character if they can be that selfish, and yes, they didn't have a valid reason because they ignored me when I asked them why they did it.

If you hit the same sundie with a vanguard (or other high damage weapon) 3 or more times within 30 seconds, that should automatically generate a full 24-48 hour suspension. Period.

[Bags]

Same deployed sundy*

Otherwise people would just grief and drive in front of you.

[Minor]

TKing a sundy is a huge waste of time. The sunderer only gives out 2-3xp per spawn now.

There is no real advantage in cheating to get such a meager resource in exp. It would be much better to become a base mechanic nomad and hop from base to base as the combatants leave to scavenge on the repairs. No bus required.

Run a Tank platoon or a Liberator squadron.

In the LUA, all tailgunners are granted full repair exp while the gunners and pilots share the kills. Just that is a safe huge load of experience for everyone. An engineer driving in a tank platoon of 3 or more tanks gains a big advantage in exp.

[VGLance]

I've dropped sundies in hotspots where the 2-3xp spam is insane. Gained 10 certs in 30 minutes. Granted some of that xp was from repairing the sundie while it was periodically hit. When you have a force of 100 or so people spawning and dying over and over again in a very tight spot, it can be considerable. But yeah, I agree, there are more effective ways to get certs.

My issue isn't with the xp gain, it's with the intent behind the TKer and the fact that there is no method I can see in place to modify his behavior.

[Srixun]

I do this, but only if the sundy is in a shit spot. like, UNDER A FUCKING BIOLAB WE ARE ATTACKIN. Ill tk that shit all day :)

[JoeDragon]

Could also be horrible Sundie placement. You put up a sundie in a bad spot which is hampering the efforts of the local friendlies, they may blow it up so another can be placed in a better spot.

So many people put no thought into where they're deploying, they just want that xp. Keep an eye out in chat, they might have asked the owner to move it and if there isn't a response, they decided to blow it up.

[Lonehunter]

It may have nothing to do with xp, a lot of Sunderers are in an awful spot, and almost all of them aren't moved forward as the front line progresses.

The problem for me is that damn deploy radius, it's WAY too huge. I understand the problems of making it too small, but they need to test a slightly smaller radius. Maybe if try keeping the radius, but allow 1-2 AMSs to deploy within another's bubble.

[Stadulator]

In my opinion it's got less to do with getting the small amount of EXP and more to do with getting a spawn closer to the objective.

I've personally taken down 2 friendly AMS' for that exact reason. People that ditch the AMS and don't monitor it, or the battle should reconsider driving one.

When the front needs to move, AMS drivers need to be proactive and ensure that the team always has a forward spawn point and is spending as little time as possible traveling to the objective.

People that are too selfish to undeploy and let another spawn closer, or even undeploy and try to get their AMS closer are more of a detriment to battle than someone TK'ing an AMS in order to move the front.

[Greytusk]

I am unfamiliar with the Sunderer dynamics. Please explain. Only so many can deploy around one base?

[Srixun]

Only 1 sundy within 200m, Should be 100m imo.

[Bocheezu]

The moving-forward-as-the-line-progresses is what really bothers me. There should be fallback AMSs and forward AMSs, and they should leapfrog each other as the battle progresses. That's not what happens; people get all pissy when you don't move the thing IMMEDIATELY. It's my 400 resources, I'll move it when I feel it won't get blown up. I'm not going to drive anywhere out in the open when opposing infantry are close enough to blow it up with rockets.

This is especially exacerbated when you are warpgate camped. I will park the thing very far away from the capture point (usually right by the warpgate towers) so that the chance of it getting blown up is 0%, because we don't have any extra resources to screw around. People bitch and tell me to move it up. I tell them to get their own if they are so concerned. They get their own and it immediately gets blown up, and they blame me because the deploy radius is so big, they can't deploy anywhere safe.

People are damn idiots with the things, it drives me crazy. Much more than PS1; in that case, it was just a personal waste of time to get the AMS blown up. Here, the whole empire suffers. I used to love driving the thing: finding sneaky places to put them, direct the zerg, etc. Here, no matter what you do, people only hate you.

[gigaus]

I agree with the above. I've acted as the dedicated moble spawn driver for my Outfit for a good few months now, and with this new bs mechanic of 'only one sunderer in such a radius' makes sunderers next to useless. I say this because of what Stad said; people just put down their busses where there is no tatical advantage for the overall attack, but it's safe for them to do that because they won't take any fire, and people will spawn on them, because hey look, it's a sunderer spawn, it's closer than the base spawn, even if it's in a shit location. over a good week and however many hours of game play, I got to deploy my bus maybe three times, while noobs with the AMS cert parked wherever they wanted jsut to deply, not knowing what they were doing.

And to Graytusk; As of...Oh god, I can't even remember the last patch numbers; as of one of the patches a while back, say a month ago? [don't quote me on that] they changed the spawn mechanics of the moble sunderer spawn. before, any number of busses could deploy, and it as a gd mess, because some idiot thought it'd be a good idea to let sunderers be the only spawn, and be avalible at every vehical terminal. To counter that, another idiot decided it'd be a good idea to make it so within an arbitrary radius, only one sunderer could deploy, typically taking up the whole base, reguardless of where it was.

Think of it this was; Before, you could have multipul spawns for an attack or defence, but only so many because of how hard they were to get....Then they decided to make them easy to get, and there were too many, so, they basically limited each assult and defence to one moble spawn, but in a way that makes it so no one really has control on where the spawn will be. So you can be pushing a base, and some new guy parks his bus in a vunerible position, like the death gullies of the crown, and a good player could try to park somewhere that would be good, like in the base if they got the chance. Only thing is, the guy in the base can't set down, so he'll get blown up, and wasted a sunderer. Then the guy in the gully will probably get blown up, and the assult would be back to square one. Goes the same way for defence too effectively.

Honestly, like the others, I doubt it was about XP. Yeah, in a front line battle, you'll get a silly amount of XP from spawns, but more than likely, you set up somewhere bad, and blew up your sundderer to get a better one in. Sorry to be blunt, but that's really the only reason that that would happen.

[QuantumMechanic]

The problem for me is that damn deploy radius, it's WAY too huge.

This is the biggest contributor to the Sundy TKing problem I think.

[Dagron]

I'll move it when I feel it won't get blown up. I'm not going to drive anywhere out in the open when opposing infantry are close enough to blow it up with rockets.
(...)
People bitch and tell me to move it up. I tell them to get their own if they are so concerned. They get their own and it immediately gets blown up, and they blame me because the deploy radius is so big, they can't deploy anywhere safe.

Yes people should take care of their toys, but you can be concerned about losing your sunderer without forcing others to lose theirs when they try to help the empire.

Ever thought of just undeploying without moving out in the open so the other ones can deploy in the safe place they wanted to? If they still get blown up you can then redeploy until someone else gets a sundie in another safe position further ahead. Of course you should check the map to make sure they're not in a stupid position first.

[Buggsy]

I've dropped sundies in hotspots where the 2-3xp spam is insane. Gained 10 certs in 30 minutes. Granted some of that xp was from repairing the sundie while it was periodically hit. When you have a force of 100 or so people spawning and dying over and over again in a very tight spot......

It is worth half as much in XP as killing a galaxy. You can't kill 1 galaxy or 4 infantry in 30 minutes?

Leechers....Sometimes I get this feeling deep down inside that players are the lowest form of human life.

[Buggsy]

How about sunder experience goes on a curve. You can only gain experience off of one player spawning off it every 60 seconds.

This will take care of leechers.

[Bocheezu]

Yes people should take care of their toys, but you can be concerned about losing your sunderer without forcing others to lose theirs when they try to help the empire.

Ever thought of just undeploying without moving out in the open so the other ones can deploy in the safe place they wanted to deploy at? If they still get blown up you can then redeploy until someone else gets a sundie in another safe position further ahead. Of course you should check the map to make sure they're not in a stupid position first.

I could do that, but unfortunately, I want to fight as well. I don't want to sit there and stare at the map all day. Oh here comes an AMS, UNDEPLOY, (sit and wait), oh shit, his got blown up and I have to redeploy, OH WAIT, HERE COMES ANOTHER AMS, UNDEPLOY AGAIN. Fuck that. I want to drop it and fight like everybody else. That's what PS1 was.

[Dagron]

Understandable, but chances are you only have to do that after some time when the fight has moved up ahead. People should always let the owner of the deployed sundie know ahead of time when they're planning to push another AMS forward.

Edit: of course all that requires some level of coordination that we hardly see today, even though it should be there... hopefully people will learn in time.

[Buggsy]

I once put a sunderer down 200 meters away from a town, the fight was progressing well, so I found a place to move up 100 meters closer, I undeployed and almost immediately someone deployed right next to enemies spawn point in town. 60 seconds later theirs blew up, and I was too far away from my sunderer to redeploy it, then mine was blown up, then the attack ended.

Getting the closest you can possibly get is not the best thing, especially if the ASS END OF THE SUNDERER is pointed right at the enemy spawn door.

Leechers force others to not spend that extra 20 seconds maneuvering the sunderer's front end to point to the spawn door. Nerf leeching experience.

[ericbsmith]

Ever thought of just undeploying without moving out in the open so the other ones can deploy in the safe place they wanted to? If they still get blown up you can then redeploy until someone else gets a sundie in another safe position further ahead. Of course you should check the map to make sure they're not in a stupid position first.The problem there is that you have no idea where the other Sundy is, if it actually gets deployed, or if it gets blown up unless you go out and die yourself or have squadmates keeping you fully apprised of the situation (which your average random squad won't bother to do). In the meantime you are completely out of the battle yourself because you are babysitting an undeployed Sundy waiting to redeploy it. If you dare leave it and go join the fray you won't be at your Sundy to redeploy it should the other one get blown up.

All in all the Sundy radius mechanic is a bit whacked. It reenforces the "hurry up and be the first to deploy so you can get the XP" meme which leads to very poor placement. This leads directly to the whole "TK the deployed Sundy because it's too much trouble to actually figure out who the owner is" perversity. The basic problem is that the radius really is too large, leading to most bases where only one Sundy can be deployed, two if you get a lucky spot on the far side.

[Dagron]

I agree the radius mechanic is far from ideal, i was just commenting on the guy's unwillingness to give up the safe spot deployment, they way he talked about it sounded like he was resisting more out of stubbornness than anything.
If he was parked in a place that held no benefit and refused to help others advance the fight, he'd be the wrong one, and how do we know for sure what was the situation?

[TheSaltySeagull]

I agree the radius mechanic is far from ideal, i was just commenting on the guy's unwillingness to give up the safe spot deployment. There are situations that require you to do just that.

His unwillingness is also a result of the radius mechanic. Before sundy drivers could be more aggressive because they knew there was most likely other deployed sundys in the area. So if yours gets destroyed trying to move up its not a big deal because there are others.

Under the new system tho that is not always the case. The radius means that you can not count on other deployed sundys to be there so if you move up and get destroyed an attack can stall because there are no other sundys in the area that are close enough to support the attack. The radius also makes leap frogging sundys more difficult.

This encourages drivers to play more conservatively and not want to risk losing what might be the only decently placed sundy by moving it and thus cause an entire attack to fail. And this will remain the case as long as the radius mechanic prevents more than one or possibly two sundys to be placed close enough to a fight to actually be relevant.

[Ostekake]

Use region chat (/re) and ask for it to be removed.
Everyone should make sure it gets 'removed' :blowup: provided its blocking something like a vpad under control,
that needs an ams - or forces troops to spend to much time moving to a target or objective.
(again - use /re chat, and for god sake.. dont use yell :rofl:)
But this is tricky stuff and requires a good deal of experience to determine.

There are also several ways to manage spawn points proper with teamplay.
Outfits should get this down to an art form to the extent where multiple outfits easy
will know the range needed for the staging AMS, where it needs to be for a forward aggressive
ams to manage to deploy in the right spot.
You can even have multiple staging AMSs to block bad areas so there really is only one good spot
to put up the 'golden' super ams - most of the time at the CP or in the vpad.
A good trick is to set a squad or personal WP on the spot where the ams should be, and make sure a staging ams (if its needed) is placed far enough away (220ish m) for the next ams to move in.

The AMS is N O T the lone wolfs transport to target, deploy in a 'safe' spot and then
proceed to zerg the base for kill exp, while blocking far superior deploy locations.

PS: if i have ever destroyed a friendly ams or generator where you where spawning - like my post :evil:

[Bocheezu]

I agree the radius mechanic is far from ideal, i was just commenting on the guy's unwillingness to give up the safe spot deployment, they way he talked about it sounded like he was resisting more out of stubbornness than anything.
If he was parked in a place that held no benefit and refused to help others advance the fight, he'd be the wrong one, and how do we know for sure what was the situation?

For me, the only real problem is when the empire is warpgate camped. The other cases, I don't really care and my AMS isn't really swaying the battle one way or the other. I will often park near a satellite capture point just so we have a backup in case some douchebag sneaks in there and takes the satellite back. I get very few spawns; I don't care. I am bigger into supplying vehicle ammo and don't even deploy most of the time.

When warpgate camped, however, you can run into a situation where the only safe place to deploy is too far away from the capture point to capture it. I did this as NC on Esamir, trying to take the North Weigh Station (NWS). There are really two reasonable spots to deploy here. One is the hill directly south of the capture point. This is often too close (~100 m) to the capture point and gets blown up because TR tanks on the hill behind the NWS spawn room have a view of the whole thing and they just sit there waiting for a Sundy to make the jump to that hill before they drive over there and blow it up. Then they retreat to hiding behind the spawn room again. There is a hill another 100m back that is much safer, but usually there is not enough zerg to make any headway. Everywhere else you are a sitting duck. I park at the safe hill, this huge dramafest ensues in /re about moving the Sundy up, and how I'm the asshole that doesn't move the Sundy. I just went to another continent and let the dumbshits jump pad to the tower and walk from there, it was a waste of time dealing with these people.

I'm sure there are plenty of other situations where there are limited places to deploy, and the hops between deployed spots are less than 200m so you can't have both deploy spots at the same time. The long and short of it is that 200m radius is way too big for a lot of the landscape features you encounter when assaulting a base.

[Rago]

This also Happend to me , which was a quiet stupid thing to have.

other Situation :
On the other hand my sundy was near a Base we took the base and a outfit came by they spawned a sundy inside and aked over the chat is someone could redeploy the sunder outside, ive done that and we all could spawn in the middle of the Base, why not ?
Communicate each other !

As for the other Griefing for 200 XP Guy´s , they are a bunch of Morrons,...

[Timithos]

The 200m radius also means a 400m diameter. It's ridiculous. I can place a sundy in an Amp station, and my deployment bubble covers the entire facility walls included, and then some! So nobody else can run a sunderer behind a tower/generator area to defend. In PS1 you could fit 4 deployed sundies in the inside corners of a facility (unless someone deployed at a central spot.) In PS2 you can maybe fit 2 inside the walls.

The 200m radius needs to be reduced to around 100m for starters.

I can understand why people destroy these things, because a poorly placed sundy is a tactical nightmare. It's the different between winning a sector, and never winning it. A 10-20 meter placement towards a capture point can be the difference in winning or stalemating. Outfits that know what they're doing are not going to put up with this, and sundy tking is going to be just a "uh huh" tactic without a second thought. They don't have time to find the owner in region chat. The deployment bubble needs to be reduced.

[Raka Maru]

Sunderer leapfrog is nothing new. It's usually done by platoon size groups. What we have now is a broken system that can be fixed by reducing (probably greatly) the deploy radius.

Don't expect the dedicated Sunderer driver to "give up his spot for the good of the empire". They are trying to help, but the mechanics are wracked right now. He may or may not do it and its not really his fault, it's the game mechanic. Default Sunderer has 20 min cool down and 400 resource cost. Dedicated Sunderer drivers are not infantrymen who jump out and join the attack, but hang back and continually look for better spots to help the fight and repair their truck.

If someone TK's my Sunderer (which has not happened to me yet), I would hope to be able to add them to a ban list that would prevent them from ever spawning in my truck again. Please Devs, add this feature, along with the report/mute/ignore to get these TK'rs out of my hair.

[DDSHADE]

I was about to say... How did you know the guy in the vanguard was his friend??? Vanguards are the enemy...

Then I realized not everyone plays TR.. :P

I hope they find a way to lock the right peoples weapons, sometimes people DO just run the hell in front of you while you're shooting or driving. Seriously one of the loading screen tips needs to be "LOOK BOTH WAYS BEFORE YOU CROSS THE ROAD!"

[PredatorFour]

@ OP .... Get used to it! This is Planetside... Shit like that will happen often so get used to it!

[Eggy]

Yes the current S-AMS placement issue is not working, but thats no escuse for TKing.
When theres lots of ESFs about and I see retard after retard spawning as a sniper, I dont go killing them all.
People need to get there issues sorted, and work around it.

Ive been TKd for repairing a sunderer and ive had my AMS tkd,and then one of the big outfits on Eurydome deployed theres in the exact same spot. So its not all about tactics or combat viability.

Killing a sunderer takes alot of firepower. Its not something you can do by accident, ever. Grief in general needs bigger penaltys and AMS grief needs even more.

[sylphaen]

Let's use the kind of logic found on the spawn camping thread:
"If it's badly placed or the guy is a jerk, don't spawn on that AMS and stop whining"

Posting constructively is not for everyone.
:rofl:

[ItchySox]

"We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when, but I know we'll meet again some Sundy day." ;)

[Rago]

:cry:Deployable Galaxy Spawns:cry: I want em !:eek:

[bpostal]

I do this, but only if the sundy is in a shit spot. like, UNDER A FUCKING BIOLAB WE ARE ATTACKIN. Ill tk that shit all day :)

Just goes to show that there are times when a bang bus needs to go down. I'd rather they got rid of the XP all together so the only people driving them are the ones who actually give a shit. Don't need no XP whores getting butthurt when there's a better sundy available that's getting cock blocked.

[Crator]

With resources in the game there should be harsh punishment handed out to players who TK S-AMS. Incremental grief points for every heavy damage hit made to a friendly S-AMS.

[ericbsmith]

"If it's badly placed or the guy is a jerk, don't spawn on that AMS and stop whining"Two problems with that:

Just because it's badly placed doesn't mean that it isn't better placed than the currently available alternative spawn sights. That doesn't change the fact that a better Sunderer spot is available (and likely cock-blocked by the deployed Sundy).
During a large battle plenty of people are going to spawn there anyway. I fail to see how depriving myself of a slightly better Spawn location is going to change matters much.

[bullet]

It seems like this is another case of "Everyone can have all the vehicles" problem. Some people who shouldn't have the Sunderer, have it. I highly doubt those same people would waste their cert points on the Sundy/AMS if they could choose to bring a tank/reaver/killwhoremachine to the fight.

[Sifer2]

The main problem has already been said. They are far too widely available. Too easily spammed. They wouldn't have implemented the 200m deploy radius if it wasn't needed. And it wouldn't have been needed if they had not thought it was ok to make them so easily spammed lol.

It's one of the cheapest vehicle certs to get AMS power. Mistake number one.

Can pull Sundy from every vehicle terminal in the world. Mistake number two.

Is a strong vehicle, and gives easy xp making it appeal to xp whores instead of logical strategy minded players like the AMS from the original game did. Mistake number three.


Thing is I am pretty sure SOE wants them spammed. They are convinced PS1 failed due to slower pace. They think the AMS of the first game wasn't fine cause there wasn't that many of them spammed. They would rather see tons of them all over the place to try to increase the pace even if it makes gameplay worse.

[DataPhreak]

Wow, I'm glad I ran across this thread. I'd have never thought to TK someone else's sundy so i could place my own. I'm going to do this all the time now. This thread needs more QQ. I wonder how big I can make it.

[RSphil]

why destroy someone else's sundy? just move 200m away and deploy your own. makes more sense ammo wise, friendly fire locking wise and tactics wise. some people need to wake up and use their brains.

[Yepspeps]

you probably parked somewhere retarded

[Figment]

Only 1 sundy within 200m, Should be 100m imo.

IF it's brought down (note: if), 150m-175m should be the minimum IMO. But really, I don't see any reason to. 200m is a short distance to cover.

100 is too close as the amount you can place increases quite rapidly (surface area is a power 2, so if you reduce pi*200^2 to pi*100^2, you get a quadratical Sundy placement increase).

See the difference below! In the same area of 400x400m, you'd go from 9 to 25!

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[|]]]----[|]]]----[|]]]----[|]]]----[|]]]
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[|]]]----[|]]]----[|]]]----[|]]]----[|]]]
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[|]]]----[|]]]----[|]]]----[|]]]----[|]]]


If a zerg currently deployes 3, 4 AMSes in your general area, imagine how hard they'll be to take out if they could place 8 to 12 in that same area.

[Miir]

Team killing a sundy should get you banned for 24 hours.

I'd actually like SOE to implement a system where Sundy's would only be able to spawn X amount of people before it would become undeployed for a 5 minute cool down period.