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View Full Version : Apparently the most dangerous thing in this game is friendly fire


Phrygen
2012-11-20, 08:59 PM
I'm new to planetside, i only played the beta for about 3 days.


But seriously, I am more afraid of my NC faction than the enemy. I played and went 38/12 before i got fed up and deleted and remade my character on NA east coast server. Of those 12 deaths, 8 were from friendly fire... and i was playing infiltrator in the hills... either idiots in tanks run you over or noobs shoot you in the back...


Just wondering if this is common or not.

Dkamanus
2012-11-20, 09:26 PM
I'm new to planetside, i only played the beta for about 3 days.


But seriously, I am more afraid of my NC faction than the enemy. I played and went 38/12 before i got fed up and deleted and remade my character on NA east coast server. Of those 12 deaths, 8 were from friendly fire... and i was playing infiltrator in the hills... either idiots in tanks run you over or noobs shoot you in the back...


Just wondering if this is common or not.

Yes, it is. But it wears off with time. Either you learn or you get used to.

Erendil
2012-11-20, 09:40 PM
I'm new to planetside, i only played the beta for about 3 days.


But seriously, I am more afraid of my NC faction than the enemy. I played and went 38/12 before i got fed up and deleted and remade my character on NA east coast server. Of those 12 deaths, 8 were from friendly fire... and i was playing infiltrator in the hills... either idiots in tanks run you over or noobs shoot you in the back...


Just wondering if this is common or not.

Common with the NC, yeah. :lol:

/ducks

Phrygen
2012-11-20, 10:05 PM
i guess, its just a shame though. Oh well.

I already deleted and reset my char twice so far. Trying to get a good k/d start going, but maybe its just pointless.

Majik
2012-11-20, 11:11 PM
Playing for K/D? Interesting, and here I have been playing for fun.

Drakkonan
2012-11-20, 11:37 PM
So how many points did you cap playing in the hills?

Yetskii
2012-11-20, 11:38 PM
i guess, its just a shame though. Oh well.

I already deleted and reset my char twice so far. Trying to get a good k/d start going, but maybe its just pointless.


You actually reset because you did not have a good K/D....:lol::rofl::doh:

Phrygen
2012-11-21, 01:13 AM
You actually reset because you did not have a good K/D....:lol::rofl::doh:


yea, not like much time was wasted. Its the first day after all.

I went 65/5 just now. I'm satisfied with that as a good start.

And i capped 2, some hills are quite close to bases... or provide a nice vantage point to shoots people spawning from sunders... effectively cutting off reinforcements.

Timealude
2012-11-21, 02:55 AM
i really hope they have a tool that lets them see how many weapon locks were in the first day of launch i would love to see that.

EisenKreutzer
2012-11-21, 03:16 AM
You learn how to deal with friendly fire. Mostly, it is about positioning. Don't stand in doorways, don't run in front of people who are aiming at the spawn point, don't walk too close to tanks. Once those reflexes stick, you won't have much of a problem with FF. :)

bjorntju1
2012-11-21, 03:17 AM
You actually reset because you did not have a good K/D....:lol::rofl::doh:

This, it isn't Cod :lol: Nobody cares how high your K/D is.

Fyrn
2012-11-21, 03:21 AM
Join Date
2012-11-20

Trying to get a good k/d start going

In a more serious note: if you stand where a tank is going it's likely your fault, not the driver's.

And yes, trying to get a "good k/d" is in fact pointless. The people that give a shit about your k/d are in the single digits, likely hovering somewhere right above zero. Just enjoy the game and if you strive for excellence - join a good platoon and get some teamwork going.

Stormhall
2012-11-21, 03:50 AM
God Dammit why didn't SOE come up with "Prepare to Die" first with Planetside 2 then we wouldn't have people complaining abou K/D.

Phrygen
2012-11-21, 04:16 AM
In a more serious note: if you stand where a tank is going it's likely your fault, not the driver's.

And yes, trying to get a "good k/d" is in fact pointless. The people that give a shit about your k/d are in the single digits, likely hovering somewhere right above zero. Just enjoy the game and if you strive for excellence - join a good platoon and get some teamwork going.

In a serious note its mostly the drivers fault. I don't care about anyone giving a shit about k/d except me. I care about it atm, and thats all that matters.

As for team work, i may attempt to work with people when they kill me less than the vanu and TR combined. Ive died 13 times so far. 9 are from friendly fire, getting run over(and i'm "in the hills" and not in roads) and of course, falling through the world twice and "suiciding". Its annoying and doesn't make me want to go near my teammates until things settle down at the very least

MaDGunner
2012-11-21, 04:22 AM
As for team work, i may attempt to work with people when they kill me less than the vanu and TR combined. Ive died 13 times so far.

So I take it you're on the NC, yeah I noticed they do that a lot :D just playing, cya on the battlefield…

MrSmegz
2012-11-21, 04:33 AM
Worried about FF? in PS2? seriously? OP, did you ever play BF3 Hardcore? Ever get shot in the back of the head for just getting to the Helo or Tank first? I'm NC, and I do not have this problem, even though we do have the most inaccurate assault weapons.

Edit: Honestly though, its just a different game, with way more players. Your just going to have to watch as much where you are going as the guy laying down cover fire over your head.

Zagnash
2012-11-21, 04:45 AM
Yeah I understand your pain. We had a tank column going through a mountain pass and Infantry just kept trying to run through the middle of us or run in the road. Needless to say I think I saw close to 30 FF deaths from players all over.

I can't say its the drivers fault. During combat I never stay on the road. Its pretty common tactics to move into cover, hills, trees, shrubs. A tank that sits in the road, is a pile of wreckage a few minutes later.

I try to watch out for other players as much as I can, but if I am taking fire from enemy rockets and players are hugging my tank for some reason. Then yes Ill run you over. My tank has something of a 15 minute Cool Down, you respawning cause you like to get close to tanks is a 8 second respawn. :) Again, if you are playing right as an infantry then you are right its not your fault, and tanks should pay attention to what they are doing along with where you run.

Just tonight my brother got ran over 4 times leaving the spawn at one of the bases because players were just being dumb. Driving right up on the spawn locations, I know of at least 1 of the 4 was on purpose cause we watched him swerve over to hit him and spun his tires after he did it lol.... Needless to say I don't take kind of intentional Friendly Fire, and blew him up for it. Hopefully taught him a lesson on respecting other players on your team.

Oh and I play VS :(

Dalorian
2012-11-21, 05:12 AM
Hi all,

Personally, I accidentally ran over 2 or 3 people in my tank.. It wasn't my fault though. As soon as I spawned the tank, there was a Big battle with like 50 people on foot on the road in front of the tank spawner pad. When The tank rolled out off the pad, i was unable to stop, and it ran over one guy right in the way right off the pad.

The second and third kill was when I tried to move up with the other tanks. The game lagged out like mad and my tank wouldn't stop. It ran over 2 more people before the game froze up completely and then I had to use Task Manager to stop the game so I could restart... I am not sure if it kept rolling and ran over more people after i froze :-(

Man that sucked. I spent my 250 on the tank, then ran over 3 or more people, then game froze and i lost my tank...

One time I remember being killed by a tank driver was when I was passing a tank in a Non hostile area. I was almost past him, then he just suddenly swerved into me and blew up my Quad... It seemed like he did it on purpose. I was a good 5 -10 feet away from him off to his side...

Raka Maru
2012-11-21, 05:35 AM
I did squish someone today backing away from a rocket barrage in my lightning (sorry).

sylphaen
2012-11-21, 05:38 AM
If they did not do it on purpose, just be careful on how you play and FF will go down.

Heruler
2012-11-21, 05:53 AM
i just love how people run in front of my gunfire
i get brilliant rewards

gun locks ftw >.>

ChipMHazard
2012-11-21, 06:07 AM
Heh about 75% of my deaths yesterday were caused by friendlies. I am surprised at just how many new players, I assume, just mow you down when you come around a corner. Also players really don't seem able to control their fire even after the enemy is dead, they just keep on shooting even if I and others are standing right in front of them.
That's not even mentioning all of the friendly snipers that keep on trying to kill me just because I'm wearing camo. Oh, oh and grenade spammers. I just love it when someone thinks he can kill all the enemies in a room while they are fighting with the rest of us.

I think there are a lot of new people who don't really know that there's friendly fire, but they will learn. Also this is the main reason why I could not care less about my deaths, you die from so many things that are beyond your control it just doesn't mean anything.

Raka Maru
2012-11-21, 06:13 AM
This will actually be rampant until the noobs learn. So many things can kill you besides other players such as terrain bugs, weapon bugs (remember grenades that stuck to your hand), CTD, lag, stuttering, freezes, bad pilots, bad drivers, and the list is so long that is why people say K/D is meaningless.

Dalorian
2012-11-21, 06:37 AM
This game is SO beyond anything that most of these new players have experienced in gaming before. And as such, They simply don't understand how this is not your typical FPS.

Like Raka Maru said, they will learn eventually, and if they don't, then they will get tired of their super long weapons locks and quit playing.. That would make us all happier...

Give it a few months. I can almost guarantee that most people will get with the program and treat this more like the Massive tactical and strategic game it is meant to be, and less like the small map FPS they are used to running around in circles in...

:groovy:

Qwan
2012-11-21, 06:47 AM
I think its funny that guys complain about friendly fire but just yesterday we were taking a base and the TR were still spawning and we were just waiting for the cap. I stayed away from the front entrance, and pulled back took a knee and waited for bodys to walk out. But in front of me newbs were running up to the door way in the line of fire :doh:. I didnt understand why they were so close first they cant penetrate the shields till the base caps and two there were about 30 guns including tanks aimed at the door :doh:. Now I will admit that tags on friendlys at a distance were not showing up hopefully the devs will work on this or it might me a video issue. Also there is the during a fight alot of guys were strayfing in front of me, and with a lasher going off behind them it was not a pretty sight. But keep at it and just be aware of whats around you.

RSphil
2012-11-21, 07:55 AM
you have to get used to it. untill all the new players figure out- A. how to play this game, B. how to recognize the other factions, C . that K/D ratio means nothing in this game. if you are alive too much you are not helping win the war.

alot of new players are coming to planetside and alot need to learn tactics/situational awareness. FF is here to stay and i like it.
people are not going to be used to the amount of players for a while yet so be patient. they will learn about covering cones of fire and not walking in front of a guy firing a large weapon, or going to say hi to a tank on the move. give it a few weeks and it will get safer to fight next to your fellow troops.

Figment
2012-11-21, 08:12 AM
Friendly Fire in PS2 is a lot greater than in PS1 though.


Situational awareness has been severely reduced due to the restrictions on third person + less zoom + less steep down/rear viewing angles on vehicles/drivers gunning == fastly more accidental roadkills.

Frotang
2012-11-21, 08:19 AM
Lol i laugh so hard when i realize this guy re made his char bc of bad k/d. Listen if there is one tip for any new player to follow to ensure enjoyment of this game it is, accept that you will die, a lot. This is a war zone not some instanced battle arena, shit happens get over it and continue on. Im still loling as I realize and think about the hundreds of others out there that are probably just like the OP.

Also /suicide is probably the most useful tool / ability in the game right now, people who care about k/d are just not as an effective soldier.

Storn
2012-11-21, 08:27 AM
A lot of the time it’s the victims’ fault. If you see a group behind you firing at the enemy and you step into that line of fire, guess what’s going to happen. Thats why I dont put up turrets all that often.

Fyrn
2012-11-21, 08:33 AM
As for the newbs running into the line of fire: yea, that is hilarious actually :)

Since PS2 feels and plays a lot like your average CoD, the first reaction for people coming from that genre is likely to start sprinting around the map like madmen, just looking to kill stuff.

Yesterday had so many heavily entrenched battles inside towers where this was pretty obvious. You'd have a few guys covering entrances and both sides had literally hundreds of people that would continue to just run in or out in a typical CoD move, getting killed instantly.

And if they collided at the door, obviously everyone just starting putting both of them full of bullets. I bet even I had a ton of FF from that alone :)


Also, the genre.. everyone who's new to this game needs to take a deep breather because there has not been a game like this since ..well, the original PlanetSide. PS2 gameplay dynamics, depending on where you are and who you're fighting can not be compared to ANY FPS, not even the larger 64v64 varieties. In a 64v64 like BF it's unlikely you're seeing all 128 players on the same spot -- in PS2 however it's very likely there are much more than that.

Rat
2012-11-21, 09:45 AM
Dont let yourself get hung up on K/D, you will only drive yourself nuts trying to keep a stat up that really dosent mean anything.

Fyrn
2012-11-21, 09:48 AM
I was kidding of course. For all I care my k/d could be negative ;)

Hamma
2012-11-21, 10:10 AM
This is yet another reason K/D shouldn't be displayed in the game.

But that's another 300 page thread.. :lol:

ArcGuard
2012-11-21, 10:18 AM
If people would quit standing in front of my turret, I wouldn't be inclined to shoot them and make them an easy kill for the enemies just to get them out of my line of sight. Stand beside me, not in front of me...

burbear
2012-11-21, 10:27 AM
Agreed - new players will get the hang of it in time.

FF makes tactical combat so much better. If it wasn't there this would be a team fortress classic spam-fest at a massive scale.

I don't think people will ever stop running in front of my engie turret, though - some people just don't get the message.

Figment
2012-11-21, 10:29 AM
I was kidding of course. For all I care my k/d could be negative ;)

But it can't be! D:

Negative K/D RATIO would be h4x.

Knocky
2012-11-21, 11:08 AM
Funniest moment....

I am cruising along in my Sundy.

Some ATV comes hauling ass across the road in front of me.

ATV explodes as I run right though him.

EXPLODES!

I literally died laughing and lost my Sundy. :rofl:

The grief was worth it.

Phrygen
2012-11-21, 04:52 PM
Lol i laugh so hard when i realize this guy re made his char bc of bad k/d. Listen if there is one tip for any new player to follow to ensure enjoyment of this game it is, accept that you will die, a lot. This is a war zone not some instanced battle arena, shit happens get over it and continue on. Im still loling as I realize and think about the hundreds of others out there that are probably just like the OP.

Also /suicide is probably the most useful tool / ability in the game right now, people who care about k/d are just not as an effective soldier.

effective at what exactly? The best fights are the stalemates that go on a long time in certain zones. The rest is just going in circles since offense is significantly easier and more rewarding than defense.

I "care" about k/d atm (and i stress atm) because it is the most objective solo goal for me to pursue. I have no idea what to spend my cert points on or my alpha squad cash on, so upgrading is not currently a goal.

And frankly, i kinda had fun reseting twice. I did it about ten times just to get drops over and over on a west coast server when east went down last night.

And finally, cause i guess this thread will go in circles, if you put the whole k/d thing aside, I still think it is an issue of game mechanics that the environment and my own team is responsible for more deaths than the enemy.

Dalorian
2012-11-21, 06:06 PM
I dont think it has anything to do with game mechanics or Environment... If someone is shooting or is setup in a position to shoot, Dont go running out in front of them.. Be smart. Duck and crouch under their line of fire if you need to pass. DOnt just run past people who are in defensive positions. They are probably there because the area you are running into is to hot at the moment... Look around before you make a move... Its really a very simple concept and should help your K/D if that is what you are interested in.

Its mostly just common sense. :rofl:

People will learn eventually I hope...

P.S.
I hate those guys who are so focused on K/D that they run in front of you and stop just so they can get the kill... I dont stop shooting when they do that...

ChipMHazard
2012-11-21, 07:02 PM
http://www.ninjanoveltysigns.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/incoming-fire-has-the-right-of-way.jpg

We all just have to remember Murphy's law.

Sirisian
2012-11-21, 07:10 PM
I don't think grief does anything right? I killed probably 8 friendlies in my 6 hours of playing. Most of them in my Magrider without even seeing them and then 2 of them from full health because I mistook them for an enemy.

The friendly indicator is kind of broken. If you have twitch reflexes your cursor is over the enemy/friendly's head before your told it's a friendly sometimes. Killed two VS infiltrators that way when they were pushed back in a corner because from how they were standing they looked exactly like an NC at medium range.

DataPhreak
2012-11-21, 07:12 PM
Another thing that hasn't come up yet: Bases are not as accurately labeled as they were in PS1.

It was easy to tell where the vehicle platform was in the old game. You knew exactly where vehicles would be heading as they spawned.

Last night I was climbing down from the spawn room at a base, think it was an amp station. Took a shortcut by hopping off a balcony. Right as I'm going over the ledge, a tiny Flash spawns, and I land right on top of it. Instant death. I lolled. I know the guy who hit me lolled too.

Also, it's often difficult to identify friendlies from enemies at night. Especially if you haven't certed or do not have equipped some kind of night vision. FoF indicators, as well as player model edges, are very hard to distinguish.

Last but not least is a lot of people have to turn their graphics settings WAY down to run this game. Making players even more difficult to distinguish.

All of these this are what have influenced my decision to play the Medic class. Often i can make just as much experience running around in a busy friendly base as I can in a heavy trenched battle.

Crator
2012-11-21, 07:28 PM
Another thing that hasn't come up yet: Bases are not as accurately labeled as they were in PS1.

It was easy to tell where the vehicle platform was in the old game. You knew exactly where vehicles would be heading as they spawned.

Last night I was climbing down from the spawn room at a base, think it was an amp station. Took a shortcut by hopping off a balcony. Right as I'm going over the ledge, a tiny Flash spawns, and I land right on top of it. Instant death. I lolled. I know the guy who hit me lolled too.

Ha, that's very true. I always look at my radar to see if any friendlies around v-term and if so approach with caution, and take high ground if possible. :D

DataPhreak
2012-11-21, 11:35 PM
Ha, that's very true. I always look at my radar to see if any friendlies around v-term and if so approach with caution, and take high ground if possible. :D

The problem is, I don't know where most of the vterms are! Especially in multi-level bases. What we need is a page of maps for all of the building types that I can study while I'm at work. That way I don't become flash-bait again.

Crator
2012-11-21, 11:38 PM
The problem is, I don't know where most of the vterms are! Especially in multi-level bases. What we need is a page of maps for all of the building types that I can study while I'm at work. That way I don't become flash-bait again.

It becomes easier as you play. I always look for the v-term icon on the radar. Usually find it pretty quickly...

Shivermore
2012-11-22, 01:12 AM
Seems like there should be a way to easily identify friendlies. How was it done in PS1?

Ertwin
2012-11-22, 01:15 AM
I was killed by some idiot who kept shooting me with a pistol. At first I thought it was enemy fire, and took cover. Then he joined me in cover and shot me point blank.

Phrygen
2012-11-22, 02:20 AM
oh for all the haters... take a look at the score board. Most of the top kills players have insanely high K/D. I would assume many of them are snipers.

Edit: in fact k/d on leaderboards is bugged, but most leaderboard players do maintain a legit 3-6 k/d

Dalorian
2012-11-22, 04:29 AM
oh for all the haters... take a look at the score board. Most of the top kills players have insanely high K/D. I would assume many of them are snipers.


Not necessarily... The most effective means of getting an UBER amount of kills that I have found, is to select engineer, and use your stationary turret while your in the shielded Bio Base while assaulting.. You set it up just inside the shield but as close to the door as possible. Then you pick off anyone who goes through the area... I got around 70 kills with only 9 deaths that way yesterday... Some of the doorways are better then others to setup in though, so you will have to figure that out on your own... Only problem is people like to run out in front of the turret all the time... They learn if you are there long enough, and will stop running in front of you...

MrVain
2012-11-22, 04:46 AM
An even worse thing than a noob, is a flying noob. Just go to the faction spawnpoint of your choice and see the chaos caused by these clowns. :huh:
(does make for some great fireworks!)
Flying into buildings, flipping galaxy's and liberators alike... kamikaze scythe, mosquitos and reavers be damned!
Last night alone I suffered 2 scythe losses and nearly a liberator if I didn't stabilize it. Doesn't help that they were all friendlies either.

Figment
2012-11-22, 05:09 AM
How was it done in PS1?

When your mouse hovers over an enemy unit: red names (with red health bar and blue armour bar (or in case of BFRs, shield), but the bars would only show if you had the Enhanced Targeting implant, otherwise you only got to see name markers. These applied only to any units that were both detected AND in field of vision.

Friendlies always show their green names (with health bar). ALT-N for toggling outfit names. Blue bar for BFR shields, ofc. Unless not in direct field of vision.

Red dots on radar became visible if a unit was directly sighted by friendlies in the vicinity, done by someone hovering their cursor over them directly (detected, no manual Q-spotting, Q was the autorun button), or when the SOI has an Interlink Radar benefit or nearby friendlies have Audio Amplifier implant while said unit is moving fast and the infantry unit doesn't use Sensor Shield implant.

No dots on radar at all (aside from platoonmembers) for defenders if the SOI has a radar virus.


But most importantly: always a very stark contrast in empire colours. The only units suffering from getting run over a lot in PS1 were infiltrators, because they often didn't render the green names in time for friendlies firing shells at groups of enemies or while driving through the courtyard.

302 Found

Note how markers disappear when people are out of view, even in third person. Personally, I find there to be far too many markers in PS2 that you shouldn't be able to see since they should be out of view. That they are on radar and spotted with Q is fine, but the sheer amount of markers on targets you can't see is a bit much and doesn't make targeting easier, instead, it distracts.

Mavvvy
2012-11-22, 06:54 AM
My tank is fueled by the blood of noobs :D, or at least those who don't know the "safe cross code".

GisTheGit
2012-11-22, 06:56 AM
Struggling with this part of the game too

Love walking miles to a objective to either be road kill or killed by some spray merchant on ones own side !

Don`t mind if I get a sorry as shit happens but a Punish or reflective damage would sort it !

Rushyo
2012-11-22, 07:06 AM
I'm new to planetside, i only played the beta for about 3 days.

In a serious note its mostly the drivers fault. I don't care about anyone giving a shit about k/d except me. I care about it atm, and thats all that matters.

Precious snowflake is precious.

Welcome to an FPS with a persistent community. Other people exist and they are not there to serve you and your needs. If you don't care about your team don't be surprised or upset when your team doesn't care about you. Your team are not 'background cannon fodder' whilst you achieve your K/D like in some other games. They are human players with objectives that do not necessarily align with yours.

If you can't work with your team yet expect them to work with you then it is unsurprising that things don't work out as you expect.

If you run through a doorway choke-point because you desperately want to pad your K/D then expect to die to your own team. If you run in front of a road when a convoy is moving through because you desperately want to pad your K/D then expect to die to your own team. If you throw grenades in to rooms with friendly players because you desperately want to pad your K/D then expect to die to an under-slung grenade launcher from your own team (not that, y'know, we'd ever do such a thing on purpose *cough*). If you fire rockets at a shielded door being covered by friendlies because you desperately want to pad your K/D then guess what will happen. If you park your Sunderer directly underneath a Bio Lab to maximise your personal XP gain which in turn facilitates padding your K/D then expect your Sunderer to die to your own team!

The team is not there for your personal amusement. Either you lower your expectations of what your team will do for you personally or align your objectives with those of your team. If you can't do either of those then you're going to get upset and, here's the thing, nobody will care.

oh for all the haters... take a look at the score board. Most of the top kills players have insanely high K/D. I would assume many of them are snipers.

Whoever decided a leaderboard was a good idea forgot what kind of game this is. Encouraging people to play with that play-style would be reasonable if the meta-game supported it. It doesn't, so a leaderboard just results in this nonsense where people demand to be 'up there'. The game doesn't facilitate this style of play, so dangling it as a carrot is just going to inevitably result in people feeling entitled to it and being disappointed.

TL;DR Personal problems are personal problems.

---

Now to deal with the inevitable counter-argument:

Yes, we all get shot by friendlies. You know how much that matters? It doesn't. You know how much people cry when they shoot a friendly by accident (and it is almost always by accident)? Not one tear will be shed that day.

You are one in several thousand players. Unlike many modern shooters which are designed to make you feel like rambo - where the game exists to serve your personal progression - PS2 is a different style of game which likes reminding you are really, really, really expendable. You are really, really, really expendable. Totally, completely and utterly expendable. Any one death of yours is amazingly irrelevant. There are millions of deaths a day.

Getting shot by a friendly, by mistake, is just not worth writing home about. It rates down there with the NC rations. I agree they're crap. They taste like cardboard and the corporate advertising is blatant and annoying, but again... not worth writing home about.

Mavvvy
2012-11-22, 07:06 AM
Struggling with this part of the game too

Love walking miles to a objective to either be road kill or killed by some spray merchant on ones own side !

Don`t mind if I get a sorry as shit happens but a Punish or reflective damage would sort it !

Don't get me wrong that is a nightmare and I've been on the receiving end many a time. My secondary gunner is generally a medic so we are able to re-inflate squished individuals.

Ghost Runner
2012-11-22, 08:28 AM
NC rations. I agree they're crap. They taste like cardboard and the corporate advertising is blatant and annoying, but again... not worth writing home about.

LOL yep NC rations, they are crap!

psijaka
2012-11-22, 08:55 AM
i guess, its just a shame though. Oh well.

I already deleted and reset my char twice so far. Trying to get a good k/d start going, but maybe its just pointless.

It is pointless. Utterly pointless. K/D means nothing in this game, and it is a shame that the stats place any emphasis on it, IMO.

I played as a dedicated flag capper, tank/turret repairing engi or aggressive tank destroying HA for much of the beta and was lucky to come away with a K/D of 1 most days, despite getting loads of XP for my efforts. And feeling as if I had made a valuable contribution.

But last night, for a change, I played for about 4 hours as a selfish sniper up in the hills and came away with a K/D >3, despite having lag problems. Any fool can rack up a decent K/D, but I say this again, it means nothing.

My advice is forget K/D, and play the objective. Snipers do have a place, but it is in suppressing the enemy where it counts, during an assault on or defence of a base. Taking out the HA that is lining up his rocket launcher on a friendly tank, for instance.

If a measure of "performance" is what you want, why not go for score per minute? This question aimed at SOE as well.

psijaka
2012-11-22, 09:00 AM
Regarding "friendly fire" - in time you will learn to avoid situations where you are on the receiving end. I've learnt the hard way to give "friendly" tanks a wide berth, and to hang back a bit if a lot of allies are engaged in a congested firefight in a choke point. Also, be very careful crossing vehicle spawn areas, you don't want a Lightning spawning on top of you!

But I do like having friendly fire in the game, despite the occasional annoying death or embarrasing mistake on my part. Adds an extra level of realism.

GisTheGit
2012-11-22, 11:05 AM
Reflective damage would stop the tkers & spray merchants in their tracks , simple !

They would have to chose/pick targets which isnt hard or asking much & keeps the kiddies in check

Rushyo
2012-11-22, 11:28 AM
Reflective damage would stop the tkers & spray merchants in their tracks , simple !

They would have to chose/pick targets which isnt hard or asking much & keeps the kiddies in check

Queue people deliberating standing in vital doorways because there's no penalty for doing so, driving tanks in front of friendly rockets, running out in front of tanks because MUSTGETKILLNAO, and generally completely ignoring their team in favour of OMGIMTHEONLYIMPORTANTPLAYER.

Not to mention that TKing is the only social mechanism by which a team can punish a player who is actively working against the team - for example deploying Sundies in positions which are personally beneficial but which patently hurts the team. Or parking a vehicle on top of the only route to a terminal (it happens).

I'm not saying leaving it as it is represents the solution but trying to pretend this is a simple dichotomy with a trivial solution only shows you haven't read the discussion.

PhoenixDog
2012-11-22, 05:59 PM
Working about your k/d in planetside.... Oh man do you have a lot to learn....

Phrygen
2012-11-22, 06:16 PM
Working about your k/d in planetside.... Oh man do you have a lot to learn....

to say working on it is kinda not the point. For me personally i have not even really decided on a faction because i think the outfit i pick will determine the faction (so a few resets is meaningless to me).

However to things are true.
A:
http://www.screeninsults.com/images/patton-flag.jpg

No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.
(Patton logic, the true k/d mentality)
B:
Its lame for me to fear my own troops more than the enemy when involved in battles (obviously less of the case when sniping or flying.)

duomaxwl
2012-11-22, 06:22 PM
The main thing (like someone already said) is positioning. If I'm firing down a hall or a door, and someone steps in front of me, I will not stop firing for them (same policy I had in PS1.) Just gotta be aware of your surroundings.

Figment
2012-11-23, 05:33 AM
Funny, when Patton references were made it in PS1 was usualy adressed to those people intending to move the map and trying to zergherd.

They were always made by the people who just wanted to farm.

psijaka
2012-11-23, 08:18 AM
A:
http://www.screeninsults.com/images/patton-flag.jpg

No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.
(Patton logic, the true k/d mentality)


Er ... Patton was a real general fighting a real war. What on earth has this got to do with Planetside?

Figment
2012-11-23, 08:24 AM
Er ... Patton was a real general fighting a real war. What on earth has this got to do with Planetside?

Patton's enemies didn't respawn. Grinding enemies has little use outside of a spawn camp (lame) if you don't take away the actual spawn source.

camycamera
2012-11-23, 08:27 AM
phhhhht, only kids care about their K/D ratio. in most games i have a K/D ratio of like 0.28, because i put my life on the line to save the objective instead of getting kills (although getting kills is satisfying, but not as satisfying as capping a base or destroying an objective :P)

DataPhreak
2012-11-24, 05:11 PM
Just a quick word about doors. Yes, camping a door does ostensibly stop the enemy from exiting that door. Eventually though, you have to walk through and push them back to the next door.

gigaus
2012-11-27, 08:28 AM
i guess, its just a shame though. Oh well.

I already deleted and reset my char twice so far. Trying to get a good k/d start going, but maybe its just pointless.

^ proof the most NC are CoD players :rofl::lol:

Rbstr
2012-11-27, 11:38 AM
All this worrying about people who worry about K/D is hilarious.

#1 Not that many people are actually K/D whores.
#2 Killing lots of people and dying few times is a good thing.
#3 Eliminating enemies is required in order to take objectives.
#4 It's a useful metric for the effectiveness of a play style.

#4 is the most important. I look at K/D as a thing I try to maximize for any given role because it's a reasonable proxy for effectiveness. More so than, say, exp. points which are inflated and inconsistent depending on boosts and memberships and things.
My main combat class is medic. If I make a change, like a weapon or a cert or something with play style, and my K/D goes up...I'm doing something right, because I'm dying less, so I'm rezzing more.
If I'm flying my Scythe and add armor or swap to stealth, but don't change much of my style and see that my K/D is better one way or the other I have some semi-quantitative evidence about what is more effective.

Of course, it doesn't end up mattering that much. I usually end up averaging 2:1 or so. Better in vehicles worse as infantry.

Fear The Amish
2012-11-27, 02:00 PM
to say working on it is kinda not the point. For me personally i have not even really decided on a faction because i think the outfit i pick will determine the faction (so a few resets is meaningless to me).

However to things are true.
A:
http://www.screeninsults.com/images/patton-flag.jpg

No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.
(Patton logic, the true k/d mentality)
B:
Its lame for me to fear my own troops more than the enemy when involved in battles (obviously less of the case when sniping or flying.)


Patton.... Stupidly aggressive, Lost every equal fight he ever got into, was killed by his own side because of how annoying he was, Also was renowned for slapping shellshocked soldiers...

and K/D :rofl:

Technotaoist
2012-11-27, 05:10 PM
I would shoot less of my friendlies if my nano gun would stop swapping out for my rifle.
I am repairing, someone yells for ammo so i switch to ammo, drop it and go back to repairing. oops sorry about the scorch marks, those buff right out, honest.

But yea k/d ratios are odd to have unless your a solo sniper or finding some other way to maximize your stats without caring much about empire goals imho.

SKYeXile
2012-11-27, 06:29 PM
My one weakness is vanu, also K/D is important yo.

krnasaur
2012-11-27, 10:58 PM
here is my thoughts on KD/FF


1) if im driving my tank, and im at full speed, I am not going to stop to let you walk arcoss the road, if you are too ignorant to look both ways when you cross a road, you deserve to get run over
2) If im shooting, and you walk in my line of fire, dont expect me to stop shooting.
3) K/D whores need to go play COD where they belong, this attitude is not what planetside is about

Beerbeer
2012-11-27, 11:13 PM
Thinking you're helping your team by staring at the respawn timer isn't really being helpful, no matter how beneficial your death may be (if there even is such a thing).

Staying alive is important.

Running away in the face of death to quickly heal, regroup and come back (or pick a better, more opportune time to engage when the odds are more in your favor) is better than standing there trying to Rambo it out. Pick your fights and ultimately your overall influence on the fight will be greater, IMO.

ShockFC
2012-11-27, 11:16 PM
Thinking you're helping your team by staring at the respawn timer isn't really being helpful, no matter how beneficial your death may be (if there even is such a thing).

Staying alive is important.

Running away in the face of death to quickly heal, regroup and come back (or pick a better, more opportune time to engage when the odds are more in your favor) is better than standing there trying to Rambo it out. Pick your fights and ultimately your overall influence on the fight will be greater, IMO.

I've always been looking for the right words to emphasize why players with high K/D ratios are very effective in battles. These are the words I was looking for. These players aren't necessarily worried about great K/D ratios, they get them because they play smart.

Staying alive is important.

Babyfark McGeez
2012-11-28, 07:26 AM
Running back to a terminal to resupply / heal yourself which takes 20 seconds.

Or die and respawn in 5 seconds with full supply / health.

You do the math which one is more effective but hurting your k/d ratio.

Staying alive in PS2s current form is not important at all, except for having a better k/d ratio.

ShockFC
2012-11-28, 10:25 AM
Running back to a terminal to resupply / heal yourself which takes 20 seconds.

Or die and respawn in 5 seconds with full supply / health.

You do the math which one is more effective but hurting your k/d ratio.

Staying alive in PS2s current form is not important at all, except for having a better k/d ratio.

Thing is, when you're dead you aren't effective at all. In fact, you're probably taking up a medics time to be shooting while they try to res you. If you're running back for repairs/resupply, there's a much better chance you can stop the enemy.

Player 1: Kills 3 people, runs back to repair after taking damage from the fight. Goes back again in 15 seconds to kill more. During time spent repairing, this player is still on or near the front line. They could be throwing down an ammo kit or ressing someone while they heal and rep up, if they're a heavy they could even shoot a rocket at a tank/aircraft behind cover.

Player 2: Kills 3 people, looks for more to kill, dies. Respawns - which takes 5-8 seconds. Has to run back to the fight - could take anywhere from 5-30 seconds depending on position. During dead time, this player isn't doing anything at all to be effective. Nothing. This player can't even see how the battle is evolving in order to potentially look for places to flank.


I did the math. Staying alive is important.

Fear The Amish
2012-11-28, 12:16 PM
We need to rush the A point and cap it, Its heavily defended. a K/D whore wont do that they will just sit and farm kills while people that care about victory will run in nades a flying and hammering full auto doing as much damage as possible. Or need to break into a tech plant and back door is defended so that needs rushed as hard as possible to take out their sundie, a K/D person wont do that. THIS is why K/D isn't important but taking the objectives is.

Fyrn
2012-11-28, 12:24 PM
Player 1: Kills 3 people, runs back to repair after taking damage from the fight. Goes back again in 15 seconds to kill more. During time spent repairing, this player is still on or near the front line. They could be throwing down an ammo kit or ressing someone while they heal and rep up, if they're a heavy they could even shoot a rocket at a tank/aircraft behind cover.

Player 2: Kills 3 people, looks for more to kill, dies. Respawns - which takes 5-8 seconds. Has to run back to the fight - could take anywhere from 5-30 seconds depending on position. During dead time, this player isn't doing anything at all to be effective. Nothing. This player can't even see how the battle is evolving in order to potentially look for places to flank.


Player 3: Kills 3 people, has run out of rockets and ammo, runs around looking for a sunderer constantly spamming v+4. A minute into that he gives up, takes out his pistol and kamikazes into the nearest battle and decides never to try and stay alive again or play engineer for the next 10 hours without ever repairing anything. His grenade hotkey is opening a Rick Astley video to remind him that he never wanted to use them again.

I did the math too. Whenever you're not with a squad of friends that serve useful roles or driving the sunderer yourself, there likely isn't any possibility for you to resupply in or around a base that you're assaulting, unless you're sitting directly in front of the still active force fields trying to kill the few fools that continue to run out shooting rockets at you.

ShockFC
2012-11-28, 12:59 PM
Player 3: Kills 3 people, has run out of rockets and ammo, runs around looking for a sunderer constantly spamming v+4. A minute into that he gives up, takes out his pistol and kamikazes into the nearest battle and decides never to try and stay alive again or play engineer for the next 10 hours without ever repairing anything. His grenade hotkey is opening a Rick Astley video to remind him that he never wanted to use them again.

I did the math too. Whenever you're not with a squad of friends that serve useful roles or driving the sunderer yourself, there likely isn't any possibility for you to resupply in or around a base that you're assaulting, unless you're sitting directly in front of the still active force fields trying to kill the few fools that continue to run out shooting rockets at you.

This is unrealistic. I haven't once in the game experienced a time where there isn't ammo and resupply close by. This is with the general population of players too, my outfit mates usually are doing something else. You don't need a sunderer to resupply, you know that right? Unless you want to get your grenade back.

ShockFC
2012-11-28, 01:03 PM
We need to rush the A point and cap it, Its heavily defended. a K/D whore wont do that they will just sit and farm kills while people that care about victory will run in nades a flying and hammering full auto doing as much damage as possible. Or need to break into a tech plant and back door is defended so that needs rushed as hard as possible to take out their sundie, a K/D person wont do that. THIS is why K/D isn't important but taking the objectives is.

You're classifying people as either K/D whores or kamikazes. A player that kills 3 people, survives, then kills 2 more and is able to move the battle forward is still more effective - this player is smart and effective, and isn't necessarily worried about his/her K/D. How in any situation is some grenade spamming full auto kamikaze that does "damage" at all effective? These seem like the type of players that get shot in the back a lot because they run in front of people.

Fear The Amish
2012-11-28, 01:15 PM
You're classifying people as either K/D whores or kamikazes. A player that kills 3 people, survives, then kills 2 more and is able to move the battle forward is still more effective - this player is smart and effective, and isn't necessarily worried about his/her K/D. How in any situation is some grenade spamming full auto kamikaze that does "damage" at all effective? These seem like the type of players that get shot in the back a lot because they run in front of people.

they are the opposite sides of the spectrum is my point i would prefer the kamikaze over the K/D whore any day because they weaken the defenses for the rest of the team while the k/D whore is still sitting on a hill sniping.

Rbstr
2012-11-28, 01:40 PM
Equating people who think K/D is a useful metric to people who do nothing but worry about K/D is such a silly oversimplification.

You conveniently forget:
The better the kamikaze player is the better his K/D will be.

SpottyGekko
2012-11-28, 02:07 PM
Of course it is possible to learn to reduce your friendly fire incidents. But that presupposes that you actually want to learn.

As a n00b Magrider pilot, in early beta at one stage I had more VS kills than NC, and I was playing VS :D

But I learned to be a bit more situationally aware and to avoid friendly infantry concentrations. By now my friendly kills are negligible. On my kills pie-chart VS is now no more than a line, whereas it was a big fat wedge in the early days. In a Magrider, the only way to avoid the odd friendly kill is to never move, ever.

Make no mistake, if I'm taking heavy fire, I'll do everything I can to stay alive. If there's a friendly squishy in the way, that's a dead squishy. He can respawn in 5 to 10 seconds, I'll be facing a 5 to 10 minute wait before I can respawn my Magrider...

ShadetheDruid
2012-11-28, 02:16 PM
The thing is though, how do you know that the sniper sitting on the hill or the heavy outside the facility door (rather than charging in with the mass) are more worried about K/D than helping the team?

As someone who does both, i'm getting automatically categorised as someone more concerned with K/D than helping (or at the very least categorised as someone less valuable) just because of the perception of what i'm doing.

But you know what roles i'm actually doing there (or trying to at least, i'm not exactly the best player in the world)?

As a sniper, I usually focus on things like taking out heavies so our Sunderer/other vehicles don't get hit with rockets, or the much more fun task of counter-sniping. As a heavy outside the entrance, i'm usually watching the flanks for random attackers and vehicles (or watching high spots for snipers and light assaults, which people seem to forget about), and frankly i'm more useful there than rushing in (because in a push, i'm more likely to just shoot teammates than enemies.. keeping calm enough to aim straight in a tense situation isn't my strong point).

Overall I think the whole K/D discussion is a massive oversimplification/distraction. I mean, call me cynical, but I doubt removing K/D stats would change a thing. With K/D, people who don't care about it already don't care, without K/D the people more concerned with K/D than working with the team will still act the same as they do now.

By all means, make the K/D ratio less prominent and just another piece of recorded information amongst the rest. But I think it's the middle-grounders that need to be targetted more (the people new to PS2 and its concepts, who are used to K/D-based gameplay). And you do that through education on the concepts of the game, not simple information denial.

Graywolves
2012-11-28, 04:00 PM
It's possible to have an amazing K/D and be on foot most of the time owning people with your assault fire or LMG. So regularly in this aspect such a player would have a really nice K/D.

But there's plenty of situations where death streaks occur. It's planetside, you get unlucky. Sometimes you run into a big armor/air push. Sometimes the VS have a few liberators and air support flying through. Sometimes the server is lagging and an invisible NC light assault is killing you when you spawn.



So K/D can mean a good player who plays smart. The secret is that your K/D is just kills and deaths. Don't try to give it more meaning than it is. There's plenty of things you can do in attempt to build you K/D higher whether it's sniping or pulling the right vehicle load outs at the correct opportunity.






But bringing the thread back on subject... Yeah it's funny when you die and the enemy has like 10% damage on you while some friendly did you in 90% of the way. It's also funny when people step through you or stop in front of you while shooting. Did I say funny? I meant frustrating, I get them confused sometimes.

It's cool though. There's some situational awareness that can be applied to minimize friendly-fire related deaths.

-edit- ShockFC makes a good point though. If you want a good K/D focus on minimizing your deaths and play smart.