selling vec weapons is p2w!

[Mox]

There is no excuse...

Selling vec weapons and also some of the major inf weapons (mcg, shotgun, launchers)is p2w.

I buy it anyway but soe has promised something else. They talked about only sellling sidegrades and cosmetics....

Thougts?

[Crator]

I'm going to have to agree with you on this one. They should be tied to battle rank imo.

[PredatorFour]

Did you not expect this ? When have SoE stuck with promises? Im sorry but im just not suprised by this.

[Crator]

Adding more to what I said in previous post: It's not technically P2W. But that's just using the wrong terminology. But they definitely are not side-grades imo. Hence why I said they should be tied to battle rank.

[Kail]

There is no excuse...

Selling vec weapons and also some of the major inf weapons (mcg, shotgun, launchers)is p2w.

I buy it anyway but soe has promised something else. They talked about only sellling sidegrades and cosmetics....

Thougts?

This weekend, when you die to weapon that needed to be unlocked (rocket pods, lasher, Dalton, etc), try and decide if the player either:


Unlocked it via certs
Bought it with SC
Is trying it out for 30min to see what it's like via the test option


Then, message that player and ask him/her. If you're right, tell him/her they need to take a shot. If you're wrong, you take a shot.

[Raymac]

Unless I'm mistaken, you can get them using cert points. So you don't have to spend a dime. Sure you can't unlock everything in 1 day, but this game is going to be around while and those cert points rack up pretty quickly. If you could ONLY get them using real money then I would say it's pay2win, but I don't think this is even close. Plus, it's not like they are orders of magnitude greater in power.

[Shogun]

such a stupid thread again...

it´s just a problem for the first weekend, after that it doesn´t matter at all!
it´s not pay to win because you can get all weapons without having to pay. no excuse for the whiners here. you want a weapon, play some hours and you can get it! without money.

and if every weapon was only available for certs it would be the exact same situation after a short time. new players cannot use all weapons, while veterans can use more weapons.
so where is the difference, if the guy who shot you bought his weapon, or played more than you to get it? he will kill you with this weapon all the same so shut up already...

[Fear The Amish]

ummm i unlocked with certs alone rocketpods last night... so yeah... not P2W at all....

[Hamma]

This topic has been beaten to death the past 1.5 years.

You can buy these items with BOTH cert points AND SC. If they have weapons in the game for SC only then it's P2W. As Shogun said it becomes a 100% non issue after a few days as well. Not to even mention trials.

[VaderShake]

I love the "Pay to Win" argument in a game where there is never a winner hahaha.

[Bags]

It's not pay to win, but you cannot deny that people who have cash to blow and are unlocking overpowered things like A2G missiles on day 1 aren't at a HUMONGOUS advantage over someone who doesn't spend a dime for a week or two.

And this is from someone with 16k station cash to blow.

[Hamma]

Not denying it. ;)

[Helwyr]

Most of this discussion comes down to defining what "Pay to Win" means. I don't think anyone reasonable is going to dispute that it is 'pay to have an advantage over other players', sometimes this is a significant advantage. That to many is still a form of pay to win.

In my view this is not a black and white issue of the game either being Pay2Win or it not being. Planetside falls more into a sort of grey area and if it doesn't slide further on the scale towards Pay2Win I'm content with the status quo.

Anyway as Hamma said been beaten to death. SC is not going away from PS2, so not a lot of point discussing it further right now.

[Electrofreak]

I don't think it's pay to win. But I do wish that gaining battle rank meant more, and I'm not referring to gaining cert points.

[PurpleOtter]

Truth be told some one could unlock 1000's in SC and still not be nearly as effective as some one who has been playing in the Beta for weeks/months.

[Methonius]

I can assure that this is just ppl whining because I heard tons of ppl tell me that the carbine was complete crap and I dominate consistently with it and thats the starter wep. My KD is always 2-3.0 and higher. I play engineer mainly and run around with the carbine, occassionally I go with heavy assault if I get bored of engi.

[Skepsiis]

Truth be told some one could unlock 1000's in SC and still not be nearly as effective as some one who has been playing in the Beta for weeks/months.

Good point. You cant buy skill or situational awareness with SC. If anything, that makes this game play to win.....

[arclegger]

If our game was pay to win we would have a button that showed up on the death screen that let you kill the person who just killed you for 50 SC. Then that person would get the same popup to kill you for 75 SC and it would keep growing and growing until the highest bidder won.

[TehCandyMan]

Funny thing is they were saying this months ago prior to beta, but on one of there alpha vids of them showing the store you could clearly see all there weapons had a station cash amount next to them.

I'm all for them making money, because I want to see this game do well.. But they should have just admitted this from the jump. Not spew the "you will only be able to pay for side grades" crap.

[Timealude]

Funny thing is they were saying this months ago prior to beta, but on one of there alpha vids of them showing the store you could clearly see all there weapons had a station cash amount next to them.

I'm all for them making money, because I want to see this game do well.. But they should have just admitted this from the jump. Not spew the "you will only be able to pay for side grades" crap.

I think people also dont get what side grades mean.....lets take a look at the rocket pods for instance.....If you use rocket pods you give up having a huge bank of after burner fuel...which means you give up the ability to out run enemy fighters easy or out run G2A or A2A missile....side grading is giving up something to gain something else.

[LoliLoveFart]

If our game was pay to win we would have a button that showed up on the death screen that let you kill the person who just killed you for 50 SC. Then that person would get the same popup to kill you for 75 SC and it would keep growing and growing until the highest bidder won.
:rofl:
I don't think the game is P2W at all.
If you are infantry and you got killed by rocketpods, congratulations you got killed by an anti infantry weapon. As for the guns, I find they all have good and bad situations, I personally haven't unlocked every gun in the game so I can't throw out a blanket statemant but I will anyway, from the guns I have unlocked I do not feel any of them have given me an advantage over other players. :groovy:

[Mavvvy]

It would be pay to win if this was a more a individual centric game, however luckily there us nothing that teamplay can't kill in this :).

Like someone else said the weapons should be tied to battlerank.

[elementHTTP]

Only P2W item in game are/is ROCKET PODS :D

[Mavvvy]

:rofl:
I don't think the game is P2W at all.
If you are infantry and you got killed by rocketpods, congratulations you got killed by an anti infantry weapon. As for the guns, I find they all have good and bad situations, I personally haven't unlocked every gun in the game so I can't throw out a blanket statemant but I will anyway, from the guns I have unlocked I do not feel any of them have given me an advantage over other players. :groovy:

Hehe you just reminded me of what one of my squad mates said to me once "shotguns are too op in close quarters combat"

I had to write him up a note that our friendship was under review after that :D

[psijaka]

Not this subject again :rolleyes:

[Realmofdarkness]

It's not pay to win, but you cannot deny that people who have cash to blow and are unlocking overpowered things like A2G missiles on day 1 aren't at a HUMONGOUS advantage over someone who doesn't spend a dime for a week or two.

And this is from someone with 16k station cash to blow.

its because of these people the game will survive. If there are no attractive things to buy then no one will cash in. They need money.

[SkarBlade]

There is no excuse...

Selling vec weapons and also some of the major inf weapons (mcg, shotgun, launchers)is p2w.

I buy it anyway but soe has promised something else. They talked about only sellling sidegrades and cosmetics....

Thougts?

P2W doesn't make you a better player.

[Gortha]

You can obtain every Vehicular Weapon of Inf Weapon by a few days of play, by Cert-Points.

So it is no P2W.

[CrankyTRex]

This vehicle weapons problem is still my biggest gripe with the game. It's the reason I didn't bother buying BF3 after its Beta. If PS2 didn't have so many other things going for it, I wouldn't play it either for this reason.

Not having the option to choose things like flares and missiles until they are unlocked is incredibly frustrating, especially when cert points are shared between the various classes and vehicles. It's as frustrating to me as if every character class started only with a pistol and had to unlock their main weapon.

There should be a base standard option for each role to start with and then the certs can specialize into the area you like. Your standard dumb bomb can then become something more versatile like the rocket pods, for example.

[artifice]

If our game was pay to win we would have a button that showed up on the death screen that let you kill the person who just killed you for 50 SC. Then that person would get the same popup to kill you for 75 SC and it would keep growing and growing until the highest bidder won.

That would be hilarious.

[Ailos]

This game is absolutely not pay to win, because everything that actually give an advantage in combat can only be obtained with cert points: AMS for sundy, Stealth and Flares for aircraft, weapon modifications (larger ammo bank, longer clip, shorter lock-on time, whatever).

You have no idea how frustratingly not P2W this game is to someone who would pay to have all of the above things instantly.

[SpottyGekko]

It's not P2W.

It's pay to unlock faster.

On my server leaderboard, there's quite a few BR20's with 26 to 30 hours played already. They have a massive advantage over me, because I've only managed to play 5 hours since launch. Not because I didn't want to play more, believe me.

[Shogun]

that´s right. the real advantage comes from playing the game, not from putting money in.

and compared to ANY other f2p game (with shop) out there, the pay to win factor on ps2 is the lowest!
if you want a weapon, you can get it for free after playing for some hours.
i know games where you need to play the game for several months to be able to aquire certain shop items for free!
there is NO shop-item in ps2, that requires you to grind for a month!

people who still whine about ps2 being a pay to win game are just cheap and want to get everything for free.

if you start playing and pay tons of money an all the shop items, you still have no advantage over a free player who has been playing the game for some weeks. actually it´s the other way round! players who have been playing the game have access to scopes and other upgrades, no paying player could buy. those things are the real advantages in the game.

[bmfof]

The game might not fit the P2W definition bill because of how subjective the terms of winning are by default, but if you argue the fact that putting down money gives one a direct advantage over someone who opts to instead cert into a piece of equipment, you are in denial. A great example for that is practically every gun for the lightning, bar the skyguard - statwise, all of them are simply better than the default one and in a fight between two equally skilled operators, the one with the default will always lose to the other 3. Does he lose anything besides a single fight in a never-ending war? Not really. Is he at a disadvantage simply because he hasn't put money into the game? Absolutely yes.

On a side note, before anyone calls me cheap and whatnot, I have put in a good 50 bucks into the game already and plan on spending more, so suck it up.

[ShadetheDruid]

Except you're still giving up something if you cert out of the base lightning turret into one of the others.

If you cert into HE, you gain more AI ability than the base turret, but you're screwed against vehicles. If you cert into AP, you're losing your ability to handle infantry. Even if you cert into HEAT (like I did - well, I actually paid SC for it because i'm useless with the base turret), you're still giving up some AI ability for more damage (on infantry groups, 6 round barrage > single HEAT shot).

If you just pick one situation (lightning vs lightning), of course one turret is going to look better than another.

[Storn]

such a stupid thread again...

it´s just a problem for the first weekend, after that it doesn´t matter at all!
it´s not pay to win because you can get all weapons without having to pay. no excuse for the whiners here. you want a weapon, play some hours and you can get it! without money.

and if every weapon was only available for certs it would be the exact same situation after a short time. new players cannot use all weapons, while veterans can use more weapons.
so where is the difference, if the guy who shot you bought his weapon, or played more than you to get it? he will kill you with this weapon all the same so shut up already...

Agree with you all the way!

[Mox]

Well guys. Forget about the question if the game fits your definition of p2w.

Fact is that SOE at the first point talked about just selling sidegrades and cosmetics.
It seems SOE itself was worried about selling something else may fit the p2w definiton.

The point of this thread is that SOE went way beyond their promises by selling vec and major inf weapons in the shop.

By the way i have nothing against p2w. Almost every f2p game is p2w. It need to be p2s because you cant make enough money with more ore less useless weapons (sidegrades) and stupid cosmetics.

Nevertheless SOE is selling power and we all know it.

[Mox]

If our game was pay to win we would have a button that showed up on the death screen that let you kill the person who just killed you for 50 SC. Then that person would get the same popup to kill you for 75 SC and it would keep growing and growing until the highest bidder won.

SOE may be stupid but not that stupid.

SoE is selling power. You can tweak definition as long as you want its still selling power.

[Shogun]

SOE may be stupid but not that stupid.

SoE is selling power. You can tweak definition as long as you want its still selling power.

but not exclusively for money! you can get each weapon for free ingame currency called certpoints!

[bmfof]

Except you're still giving up something if you cert out of the base lightning turret into one of the others.

If you cert into HE, you gain more AI ability than the base turret, but you're screwed against vehicles. If you cert into AP, you're losing your ability to handle infantry. Even if you cert into HEAT (like I did - well, I actually paid SC for it because i'm useless with the base turret), you're still giving up some AI ability for more damage (on infantry groups, 6 round barrage > single HEAT shot).

If you just pick one situation (lightning vs lightning), of course one turret is going to look better than another.

Do you really want to go there? If you are claiming you are doing a "trade off" by taking out the default gun on a lightning you have no grasp on how this game works at all. Purely statwise you'll find a very hard time employing the default gun for any task whatsoever in a better fashion than any of the other 3 G2G guns. The same goes for many other weapons, like for example the rotary on the reaver, or the walker over the default guns on air vehicles (even if the walker is also shit). PS2 is actually guilty of one of the most basic F2P game crimes - making basic weapons so utterly shit that you either end up frustrating players into quitting, or forcing them to buy something else for cash. The option to just get cert points is also there for some people, but it's really just smoke and mirrors, and this will become more apparent in a couple of months when the power gap between newbs and vets becomes wider.

[Timealude]

Do you really want to go there? If you are claiming you are doing a "trade off" by taking out the default gun on a lightning you have no grasp on how this game works at all. Purely statwise you'll find a very hard time employing the default gun for any task whatsoever in a better fashion than any of the other 3 G2G guns. The same goes for many other weapons, like for example the rotary on the reaver, or the walker over the default guns on air vehicles (even if the walker is also shit). PS2 is actually guilty of one of the most basic F2P game crimes - making basic weapons so utterly shit that you either end up frustrating players into quitting, or forcing them to buy something else for cash. The option to just get cert points is also there for some people, but it's really just smoke and mirrors, and this will become more apparent in a couple of months when the power gap between newbs and vets becomes wider.

i dont know about you but the default weapons seem fine to me, hell we have a few medic in our outfit that love the VS medic default weapon, I loved the semi auto sniper rifle even though its not my play style and I use the v10 but the basic weapons arent 'shit' as you would call them...They are actually very good the main gun for the mag is perfectly fine i havent bothered to switch it out yet just because i havent found anything i wouldnt wanna use more.

[Saintlycow]

i dont know about you but the default weapons seem fine to me, hell we have a few medic in our outfit that love the VS medic default weapon, I loved the semi auto sniper rifle even though its not my play style and I use the v10 but the basic weapons arent 'shit' as you would call them...They are actually very good the main gun for the mag is perfectly fine i havent bothered to switch it out yet just because i havent found anything i wouldnt wanna use more.

Exibit A : The orion

Exibit B : Carv

[LONGFELLA KOJ]

I actually want this to be Pay to win. Why not make this game reflect real life?

Money = Power. If I choose to drop $$$ on a leet gun because I have a 50 hour a week job and have no time to grind for it, what's the problem? I am not a super player, nor do I suck, but I would like the option. Anyone ever heard of the "speed-pass" at Six Flaggs Magic Mountain? I pay an extra $100 ontop of the ticket price and I get to go to the front of the line, every time on every ride, all day long. That is fine by me.

I vote for Pay to win! It's the American way! :D

[Voodeux]

The game might not fit the P2W definition bill because of how subjective the terms of winning are by default, but if you argue the fact that putting down money gives one a direct advantage over someone who opts to instead cert into a piece of equipment, you are in denial.

I don't think that anyone has argued that paying for an early game aadvantage doesn't exist. The option is there for anyone to make use of. If someone TOTALLY can't wait to have that baller gun, they can (skip lunch/stop smoking/not go to the bar) for a couple days and buy a game card.

... Is he at a disadvantage simply because he hasn't put money into the game? Absolutely yes.

For a finite amount of time? Yes. Forever and ever? No.

so suck it up.

A fine quote and one you may wish to study a few times.

I actually want this to be Pay to win.

Then you are an idiot.

If I choose to drop $$$ on a leet gun because I have a 50 hour a week job and have no time to grind for it, what's the problem?

That option exist. What else are you asking for?

PS2 is actually guilty of one of the most basic F2P game crimes - making basic weapons so utterly shit that you either end up frustrating players into quitting, or forcing them to buy something else for cash.

THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

Not really. And the majority of the basic weapons are not utterly shit. Some? You bet. All. No.

[Qwan]

Unless I'm mistaken, you can get them using cert points. So you don't have to spend a dime. Sure you can't unlock everything in 1 day, but this game is going to be around while and those cert points rack up pretty quickly. If you could ONLY get them using real money then I would say it's pay2win, but I don't think this is even close. Plus, it's not like they are orders of magnitude greater in power.

Raymac is on the money on this one (no pun intended), I define Pay 2 Win as the only way of aquiring better weapons and gear whether a side grade or upgrade is threw a cash only payment. SOE has made it a point to allow gamers to pay either with SC or certs. Yes certs are higher, than station cash, but either way you look at it you have access to same weapons and equipment, though one way is faster and the other may take a while longer another person only has the advantage until you aquire the certs. I have a subscription, no xp boost, no cert boost, no alpha boost, just the subscription boost, I can gain 150 to 200 certs in a night running with my outfit. I spend them on vehicle timers, mag extentions, ams, resupply, I have yet to spend my certs on weapons. I have spent SC cash on camo and a lasher (Disco balls of Death), I have also spent SC on my duel Nebulas for my max everything else is Certs and I have extended magazines, a sunderer that can take a beating with ams.

But for all you guys who dont want to spend alot, here is a hint of advice, Look for the triple and double sales. I spend 10 bucks during the tripple cash weekend and got Like 3000 SC and I spent 5 bucks on the double last friday and got 1000 SC. If you look at some of the other P2W games out there charactors either stop at a certain level or you dont have access to certain weapons unless you pay. In PS2 you have access to everything, you just have to decide whether your going to game for it or try to catch a sale like I did

[james]

Its pay to not grind, thats all it is, if you want to grind 20-40 hrs for a weapon be my guest i rather spend the money

[Qwan]

Its pay to not grind, thats all it is, if you want to grind 20-40 hrs for a weapon be my guest i rather spend the money

I wouldnt call it a grind because Im having so much fun running missions and stuff like that. Now your average RPGMMO thats a grind killing the same mob in the same area till you get enough gold to buy that new sword, thats a grind. I mean I guess if your a soloist it is a grind, but form me its a blast logging in everynight and fighting with my buds, the kills and xp come and by the time im about to log off for the night I have a good amount of certs and im just all warm and fuzy inside. :groovy:

[Geist]

If our game was pay to win we would have a button that showed up on the death screen that let you kill the person who just killed you for 50 SC. Then that person would get the same pop-up to kill you for 75 SC and it would keep growing and growing until the highest bidder won.

:rofl:

People seem to think that because you can pay for weapons that make you better at a preferred play style over a play style you don't care for or don't have the skill to play, that means you can pay2win. It's not.

For example, when you exchange afterburners for rocket pods, contrary to popular belief, it is in fact a side grade. Afterburners are a invaluable asset to the interceptor/dog fighter, as no one but another fighter with afterburners can outrun you, and no one can catch you of you need to run.

Same with the MCG and Shotguns. Those 2 kinds of weapons are excellent at their roles, that being CQC and room-clearing but are terrible at killing anything beyond 15-20 feet. I prefer the CARV and TRAC-5 much more due to the versatility.

So no, there is no p2w, just a confusion over why some weapons are better at some roles than others.

[Mavvvy]

I wish the game was pay up-front and subscription just so I wouldn't have to look at these senseless threads.

You know some people pay $50 up-front for games and still have to grind for their favourite weapons/abilities. Hell I even have bought them myself BF3 for example.

However for some reason people go nuts when they can play a game for free and through gameplay unlock weapons.

Or if they wanted they could have they could have splashed out on alpha squad/ some station cash for the same amount or less then a AAA title.

I don't get the issue I really don't. To you its a weapon, to the devs its continued development

Edit: Sorry its not a senseless thread (grumpy this morning), It isn't a perfect model granted, but I do feel that you can pay less then a triple AAA game in this and come out with more fun.

[SsapS]

(enter generic get a job kid text here)

I'm happy to throw money at this wonderful game.

[AuntLou]

Everyone has their opinion on whether Planetside 2 is pay to win or not. Why do we care so much???

Your playing an amazing game no matter what you want to call it. Call it poop on a stick, doesn't matter it's still Planetside 2 and as many do I freaken love it.

All the crying in the world isn't going to change the game now anyways so what are you trying to do? Seriously spend this time playing MORE Planetside!

Soooo lets say OP is right and Planetside 2 is totally pay 2 win. Here is what happens: NOTHING! Let it go people, it's not changing so just shut up and play.

[raw]

If our game was pay to win we would have a button that showed up on the death screen that let you kill the person who just killed you for 50 SC. Then that person would get the same popup to kill you for 75 SC and it would keep growing and growing until the highest bidder won.

This needs to be implemented against ESF pilots.

[Qwan]

Everyone has their opinion on whether Planetside 2 is pay to win or not. Why do we care so much???

Your playing an amazing game no matter what you want to call it. Call it poop on a stick, doesn't matter it's still Planetside 2 and as many do I freaken love it.

All the crying in the world isn't going to change the game now anyways so what are you trying to do? Seriously spend this time playing MORE Planetside!

Soooo lets say OP is right and Planetside 2 is totally pay 2 win. Here is what happens: NOTHING! Let it go people, it's not changing so just shut up and play.

Though I don’t agree with the last part about how it’s a pay to win, I do agree with just shut up and play. I think this game has turned out excellent, and is just getting better. Yes I do have a monthly subscription and yes I have spent about 15 more bucks for SC (they had a sale :D ), but it’s to support this great game. I hope you guys continue to play and if you by SC or not, support it.
The only thing that would piss me off is if they start to offer powerful weapons that can only be acquired threw money and not threw certs and gaming. Then I would re-think this. But as long as everything is available through SC is also available through gaming, I do not consider this a P2W

[TermiGR]

Ill make about 300-500 Certs a day with standart or Alpha Squad Weapons - so i can buy any weapon even the 1000 Cert ones after max. 3 days. I do not understand this discussion.

[Mox]

Ill make about 300-500 Certs a day with standart or Alpha Squad Weapons - so i can buy any weapon even the 1000 Cert ones after max. 3 days. I do not understand this discussion.

It seems you have a lot of time....