Magrider Anaylisis/ NC weakness

[Peacemaker]

Me and a friend got into a major argument about this. It started with talking about the Magrider and its opposition. Then after looking at what we talked about we found out that after we made the stats for all the tanks the NC has almost no weakness in our minds. It almost always falls into the middle of the three empires. The Vanu and the TR cancel each other out and seem to be a good match.

1.What do you think the Armour is? I cant see something light enough to fly taking more than two or three hits from say a Vangaurd (WOOOT DIE Vanu, TR you can live b/c you have been misled during your entire life and thus your vision has been skewed of right and wrong...) (TR havethe most armour, NC are in the middle and Vanu are tagging along in the rear)
2.I think that it may have the best accuracy of any of the tanks of the game (TR has worst, NC in the mid again!)
3. its reload speed is low (Ill bet my socks that NC have the slowest reload and the vanu come in second in this catagory and then TR).
4.The Shells probly have Med. hitting potental (THis is based on the TR throw out insane amounts of fire but each individual bullet is weak and the NC well the NC have a 150mm cannon).
5.It will most likly be the fastest medium moving tank in the game and the most manuverable (NC coming in 2nd for both and TR falling behind in 3rd)

After looking at this It appears that the TR and the Vanu will be a good match for each other but the NC may (other than ROF) have NO distinct disadvantages (Altho they may have the worst accuracy based on they use shotguns, but when i think High rof i think inaccurate). They almost always land in the middle. I love my NC comrads but i wanna know what to compare to. What do u guys think? It wouldnt be balanced if NC were mid RoF, Accuracy armour, speed, manuvarbility and top in damage. Or not that fair even if the accuracy was the worst which is basicaly a coin toss untill open beta.

[SandTrout]

We dont know how the tanks will hold up against each other until the game is released. there will surely be tactics and stragtegies that were not considered during beta, and there is no telling who will have the advantage with their tank.

The NC could have the advantage because they only need to take a few picked shots, VS might have the advantage because of mobility and avoiding shots, while the terrans' heaviest armor and RoF could prove more usefull. We dont know, and the guys in beta can't say.

[�io]

Short answer:

We have no clue, few of us have played the game. :)


Long answer:

See short answer. :D

[Peacemaker]

Well im just speculating here so cut me some slack guys :)

Ah this is just a guess guys all i want is some input.

:ncrocks: :ncrocks: :ncrocks: :ncrocks: :ncrocks:


BTW Dio :father: I am your father. I will kill you on the battlefield! :blowup: :rofl:

Thats the end of that chapter...

:usa: :usa: :usa:


So many kewl smileys

[Ginzue]

I think the Vanguard is actually to weak compared to the Prowler in all aspects, and well... The Magrider just sucks.

[Irnbru]

you really shouldnt be putting that in Dio's mouth!!!

[Peacemaker]

Ginzue how does the Vangaurd suck compaired to the prowler. Think about it man, prowler is slower and less manuverable and its guns have less punch and may be less accurate. But it does have highest RoF and Armour. It would probly tie. Magrider oh god against the prowler it would be funny just throw up a wall of lead, against the Vangaurd 2 well placed shots will bring it down (no problem with a skilled gunner) Vangaurd needs at least 2 tanks to stand a chance against a single TR or NC MBT

[Irnbru]

according to new vehicle listing, prowler is more maneoverable than vanguard

[Ginzue]

My point exactly ^^^

[Peacemaker]

??? U smoking crack? when is poor better than average?

Prowler
Source: Terran Republic
Type: Medium Tank
Role: Attack
Primary Weapon: 100mm Cannon
Secondary Weapon: 12mm Rotary Chaingun
Occupants: 3 (Driver, Gunners)
Handling: Poor



Vanguard
Source: New Conglomerate
Type: Medium Tank
Role: Attack
Primary Weapon: 150mm Cannon
Secondary Weapon: 20mm Recoilless Cannon
Occupants: 2 (Driver, Gunner)

BTW
Handling: Average

Magrider
Source: Vanu Sovereignty
Type: Medium Tank
Role: Attack
Primary Weapon: Heavy Rail Beam
Secondary Weapon: Light Pulsed Particle Accelerator
Occupants: 2 (Driver, Gunners)
Handling: Good

btw ginzue when u said my point exactly who were u talking to?

[Ginzue]

Join the TR vanguard lover, you know its better...

[firecrackerNC]

Uh where did you see that,Vanguard has average handleing,Prowler=poor and slowest

[Peacemaker]

I jsut posted the stats of the three tanks. It says right there that the Prowler has poor handeling while the Vangaurd has average. BTW usally when u have a big heavily armoured tank its slow for balance issues (thats just logic at work it may be faster)


Oh yea um NC i love, TR i like, Vanu I hate. I have no intrest in the vanu but i plan on playing as NC on one server and TR on another. (I really wanna have some fun with the MAX units they have. (Flak vs infantry = splat splat splat)

[MrVulcan]

Irnbru, please read more carefully, your facts are wrong. From the best of our info (and the new vehicle info) we can see that:

Vangaurd = extreme firepower, med speed/maneuverability, high armor
Prowler = high firepower, low speed/maneuverability, extreme armor
Magrider = med firepower, high speed/maneuverability, med armor

P.S.
also keep this in mind:

Most people think that 2 100mm weapons will do more dmg than a 150mm one, this is not true, the power of a weapon increases exponentially as the size increases.

IE: look at this data about the two ammo types:

.32 Winchester:
Penetration (10% gel.): 6.5"

Vs.

.41 Winchester:
Penetration (10% gel.): 17.5"

that is about a 24% difference in size, and the penetration is 2.69 times higher. so by increasing the size 24% you get 269% increase in power. (and the diff from a 100 to 150 is a 50% increase)

[Peacemaker]

woot a believer. Thank you mr vulcan you are a True NC. To evaluate on what u said im just gonna switch ur stats around a bit so they compair to the three tanks.

Vangaurd = Highest firepower, middle speed/maneuverability, middle armor, accuracy unknown, rof unknown
Prowler = lowest firepower, lowest speed/maneuverability, highest armour, Accuracy unknown, RoF highest
Magrider = lowest firepower, highest speed/maneuverability, lowest armour, accuracy unknown, RoF unknown

The accuracy may be the middle on the vangaurd b/c of low rof but may be lowest b/c of other NC weps (Shotguns), the ROF may be the least to even out its punch or it may be the middle to even out accuracy,

The Prowler probly has the worst accuracy when i think Machineguns i think inaccurate (Think about the miniguns in game) Firepower is logical b/c when u fire alot of ammo in most games it evens it out with a low punch.


Magrider i think may be the most accurate to even out the armour and have the lowest rof to keep the accuracy from being spamed.

PS just saw your addon vulcan. Very good info there. Way to back ur self up. I didnt expect anyone around here to be a balistics expert. Ill have to consult you if i ever need help

[MrVulcan]

Originally posted by Peacemaker
...

The accuracy may be the middle on the vangaurd b/c of low rof but may be lowest b/c of other NC weps (Shotguns), the ROF may be the least to even out its punch or it may be the middle to even out accuracy,

....

I would point out that the extreme length in the vanguard's barrel means that it will have more of a riffle *great* accuracy than a shotgun *poor* accuracy. Also, since it is 1 shot vs many, it will have to have good accuracy inorder for it to be good on the field. However I think that it will have the lowest rof by far to justify its heavy firepower per shot

[AztecWarrior]

How about we wait for the game to come out first? I voted no, not because Peacemaker is wrong, but because nobody here except *cough hammer cough* has played it yet.

[Peacemaker]

Well we could wait a month and a half to launch the game or we could just pass the time speculating about it.

As for what u followed up with Vulcan it makes alot of sence. Does that mean u think that the mag rider has med Accuracy med RoF and vangaurd has best acc and lowest RoF

[Sputty]

How can two thing have the lowest firepower?

[Vimp]

I agree with your analisys for the most part. I'd like to mention though that in making a game balanced it isn't neccesary to make an equivelant for every unit to make it balanced. Rather you could have 3 factions and one of the factions main tank is very weak compared to the others main tanks but to balance the factions you simply give that faction an upper hand in some other unit. Thus not each tank has to be equal to each other. Maybe the Magrider does need a couple for every one of the other 2 tanks but then they might have an upper hand in some other area or other unit.

Personnally though I think the Magrider has the most accurate shot due to it not having nearly as much arc as the other 2 have.
That in addition to its mobility and probably its speed makes it a pretty dang nice tank.

[Peacemaker]

Vimp that makes sence but think about this, if u look at the screenies (ill try to fin a good one) There is no balistic arcs in the game. Its all strait shots within your cone of fire. ( faster u move the greater the cone tanks arnt even pixil perfect)

[Vimp]

Actually one of Gamespot's movies shows the Prowler's shots arcing signeficantly. But in addition to that I've read a couple official statements that mentioned that there is arc for some weapons. Additionally the cone of fire merely dictates which direction the shot goes in and not how the shot travels after that.

[Peacemaker]

Well thanks for the info (not being sarcastic) god damned gamespot gota pay for this that and the other thing. I proclaim gamespot are nazis! :nazi: But anyways there is no info that energy weapons arc or not. They could they could not. I think the devs would put it in (that is they make all the tanks shots arc). It would creat a sever gimp to the other tanks abilities.

[Vimp]

I'm looking into this cause I know I just saw it resently and I thought it was in an official statement just released. But the very statement I'm refering to mentions that the Magrider has the least arc in its shot out of the 3 tanks. Prowler probably has the most arc.

[Peacemaker]

I could live with that. a new option for status of a tank. BTW just bc arc is minimal dont make it very accurate. It could shoot anywere in a larger cone of fire than the Vangaurd but its drop will be less. (The acctual shot placement depends more on the CoF than the shot drop untill u get to longer ranges).

[�io]

Hopefully you didn't think i was being rude or anything (don't know how you thought that) but i was merely pointing out that very few people here can actually say "Tank Y is better than tank X" because few have played it.

P.S.: You should change your sig to somebody else, i only hate 1 person and that's my ex(long story) i'm one of the friendliest guys you'll meet. :p

[Zatrais]

It's quite simple really, the prowler needs to be the best tank on paper because well it needs to justify the fact that it takes 3 men to man it compared to the other 2. Look at it like this

6 guys = 2 prowlers or 3 Vanguards or 3 magriders.

Thats also what Silverfrost said in IRC a few days back, shame i didn't log it =/.

[Tobias]

Originally posted by Peacemaker
Well im just speculating here so cut me some slack guys :)

Ah this is just a guess guys all i want is some input.

:ncrocks: :ncrocks: :ncrocks: :ncrocks: :ncrocks:


BTW Dio :father: I am your father. I will kill you on the battlefield! :blowup: :rofl:

Thats the end of that chapter...

:usa: :usa: :usa:


So many kewl smileys


Are you like....stalking Dio?

Also, I think Dio is older then you, which would make it hard for you to be his father, unless you stole a Vanu time machine, but none are missing and your to foolish to know how to use one anywho.

[RandoMTerroR]

It's quite simple really, the prowler needs to be the best tank on paper because well it needs to justify the fact that it takes 3 men to man it compared to the other 2. Look at it like this

6 guys = 2 prowlers or 3 Vanguards or 3 magriders.

Is say u are wrong there... no flaming, but that third person in the prowler servers "only" as a machinegunner, thus making him "less" important than the other two...
In the other tanks the gunner has to choose between the weapons, thus making him able to fire only one at a time...

Id say the prowler has an advantage there...

[Peacemaker]

I am 19 btw. But I dont care I am his father!!! AAAAHAHAHAHHAA

Um to follow up on Dios point, im just taking a guess to the stats of these things.

[�io]

Originally posted by Tobias
Are you like....stalking Dio?

Also, I think Dio is older then you, which would make it hard for you to be his father, unless you stole a Vanu time machine, but none are missing and your to foolish to know how to use one anywho.

I have a stalker?! :eek:

Yay! I'm the male equivalent of eMa !! w00t i r0x0rz!

:D

(oh and I'm 21 in 7months so Tobias you'd better check our time machine stock again)

[Prefect]

Originally posted by Zatrais
It's quite simple really, the prowler needs to be the best tank on paper because well it needs to justify the fact that it takes 3 men to man it compared to the other 2. Look at it like this

6 guys = 2 prowlers or 3 Vanguards or 3 magriders.

Thats also what Silverfrost said in IRC a few days back, shame i didn't log it =/.

Only problem is that you can operate the Prowler with just 2 men. If you are in a purely tank vs tank battle, the 3rd dude's chaingun in the Prowler isn't very important. It gets the advantage in that both guns are able to be independently aimed on 360 degree pivots.

[Prefect]

Originally posted by RandoMTerroR
In the other tanks the gunner has to choose between the weapons, thus making him able to fire only one at a time...

Id say the prowler has an advantage there...

I thought in the other tanks it was the driver who controlled the anti-infantry guns?

[Zatrais]

Depends on how you see it.... You NEED 3 men to fully man and utilise a prowler.. no matter what you say can change that.

So you guys feel that something that only needs 2 man to fully utilise should be as strong as something that needs 3 men to be used...

*shrug* dosn't really matter, like i said earlier a dev (silverfrost) has said that the prowler is stronger because it does need 3 men to fully operate.