New Class: The Grunt

[Beerbeer]

Electrofreak got me thinking, and I agree, there's a class that is missing.

Instead of trying to make another specialized class, make a dumbed down grunt.

No jet packs, no toggable shield, but can equip any weapon, except the sniper rifle and AV. A true grunt that will probably be very popular. I would play this class a lot.

[Electrofreak]

Yeah I even had a big post written up back in mid-beta proposing a "Medium Assault" class that could use nearly every weapon, but the idea felt too rough around the edges and I trash-binned it.

I almost want to say, let them use every weapon including the sniper rifles and rocket launchers, Infil and HA have abilities that make them better at using those weapons anyhow. Restrict MA's usage of explosives however (no C4 or mines) with the exception of frag grenades.

Initially I wanted to see them with some ability, but in retrospect, Engie doesn't have an "ability" so I guess it would be alright.

And, this thread probably will be moved to the Ideas forum, though I would love to see what people think about the concept.

[Stormhall]

I would personally just call it Assault the name Medium Assault just sounds stupid and maybe a class called Rifleman could be like a mix between Assault and Infil in which they use bolt action rifles without scopes similar to the Mosin Nagant or Kar 98 or semi auto medium-long range rifles similar to the M14 or Gewehr. I love using those type of weapons in WW2 shooters.

[Beerbeer]

Yeah, rifleman or assault would be better than Grunt, lol.

But, it would be a simple class with high appeal IMO. Simple is better sometimes.

[Electrofreak]

I would personally just call it Assault the name Medium Assault just sounds stupid and maybe a class called Rifleman could be like a mix between Assault and Infil in which they use bolt action rifles without scopes similar to the Mosin Nagant or Kar 98 or semi auto medium-long range rifles similar to the M14 or Gewher. I love using those type of weapons in WW2 shooters.

Agreed; as I said in another post, who the hell wants to be a "Medium"?

How about Armsman? That has an attractive ring to it!

[GhostfestivalSG]

I don't see the point in this...

[Stormhall]

Agreed; as I said in another post, who the hell wants to be a "Medium"?

How about Armsman? That has an attractive ring to it!

Armsman sounds like it would replace the current ammo carrying class (I admittedly don't know who that is) so that would be cool and why don't more games have a Communications class or a Signaling class you know to help receive and transmit radio signals and intel of the enemy instead of having a stupid map that tells you absolutely everything there and then.

[Electrofreak]

I don't see the point in this...

Would you like to use an AR without playing as a Medic? How about a Scout Rifle without playing as an Infil? Some people would give up a special ability for that kind of versatility.

[Beerbeer]

Maybe have this class default with more ammo. A true ground pounder.

It would just allow a slightly faster moving infantry class than the heavy, but allow the use of their weapons, including those found on the medic.

[Stormhall]

Maybe have this class default with more ammo. A true ground pounder.

It would just allow a slightly faster moving infantry class than the heavy, but allow the use of their weapons, including those found on the medic.

This Assault class shouldn't use LMG's but it should be able to use Carbines and Assault Rifles.

And the other new Rifleman class should just use Scout Rifles but with other advantages such as an accuracy increase when using a Scout Rifle compared to when an Infiltrator uses one and more health than a Light Assault but less health than a Heavy Assault just like the above Assault class should have.

[Stormhall]

bump

[duomaxwl]

It hasn't even been two hours. Why bump?

[Stormhall]

It hasn't even been two hours. Why bump?

Don't be anal it's only 2 minutes early and if you still don't like it then consider this a bump.

[duomaxwl]

Oh stop it, you'll make me cry.

[Timey]

I like this idea a lot and I usually hate every idea!

[Beerbeer]

Maybe when they release a new continent they could also add this to sort of liven things up a bit and give people something new to use in addition to the new landscape.

[Timey]

gotta spam a bit here: every "grunt" or "assault" or "medium assault" would have the rocket launcher as their secondary. So there's a problem.

But I really like the idea, it just needs refining a bit :]

[duomaxwl]

I don't really see the point. We'd all like versatility, but if they wanted us to be versatile they wouldn't have made the class system.

[Stormhall]

gotta spam a bit here: every "grunt" or "assault" or "medium assault" would have the rocket launcher as their secondary. So there's a problem.

But I really like the idea, it just needs refining a bit :]

Who said that and if I remember correctly Beerbeer specifically said no explosives or AV weapons apart from just a frag so I really have no idea where you came up with that.

[Palerion]

I personally don't think the idea of being able to wield all weapons is a very good idea. I think it would be better to make it an in-between class of heavy and light assault, although I do feel that as it stands light assault is pretty much medium assault.

I think this could be done if you give the class more explosives than light assault, the ability to wield carbines and assault rifles, and whatever special ability seems necessary. This could be the baseline class that everyone who would rather be a simple soldier than a specialist could stick to.

[Timey]

Who said that and if I remember correctly Beerbeer specifically said no explosives or AV weapons apart from just a frag so I really have no idea where you came up with that.

sdafadsf, a bit tipsy here. My fault :p

[Stormhall]

I personally don't think the idea of being able to wield all weapons is a very good idea. I think it would be better to make it an in-between class of heavy and light assault, although I do feel that as it stands light assault is pretty much medium assault.

I think this could be done if you give the class more explosives than light assault, the ability to wield carbines and assault rifles, and whatever special ability seems necessary. This could be the baseline class that everyone who would rather be a simple soldier than a specialist could stick to.

Yes more health than an LA but less health than a HA but faster than HA slower than an LA the coolest looking armour and can only use Carbines and ARs. That's what we are going for. But seriously a class dedicated to Scout Rifles is also needed because I doubt many Infiltrators will actually use Scout Rifles.

[Palerion]

Didn't say a thing about more or less health. Pretty sure all classes have the same health (?). I did say it could be the basic infantry unit that has pretty much medium everything. Honestly I don't even endorse the idea, but if people want it, I think this is the way to do it. It's simply an alternative to the idea of a class that can wield every weapon, which sounds stupid to me. Also, plenty of infiltrators will use scout rifles. They're like semi-auto snipers with red dots in battlefield. People love to use them for up close and personal fighting.

[Beerbeer]

This class, as a drawback, would have no utility in exchange for the ability to wield (or at least unlock) more weapons.

It's definitely not for everyone, but just a simple, versatile in weapons infantry class that I would enjoy.

[PoisonTaco]

While I can understand how you want a class that can be more versatile in terms of weapon usage, I think your idea is a little redundant. This Grunt class doesn't bring anything new to the game. You just take bits of every other class and put it together. If you want to use a particular weapon, you can switch almost on the fly.

That being said I'd be open to making the existing classes more versatile. I'd love for the ability to trade the HA's rocket launcher for another weapon slot. I'd trade my launcher for the ability to have an LMG and shotgun for example. I'd trade the Medic's AoE heal ability for something that makes me more effective in combat. I'd still have the heal gun and the ability to revive people, but I'd give up being able to heal myself.

I just don't like the idea of having a class that doesn't do anything better or different than any of the others.

[Beerbeer]

I would rather have that as well.

Actually, I wish all were weapons were useable by all classes, would save a lot confusion that's for sure.

[Rbstr]

So, if you don't get an ability, why not just be medic or engineer or HA anyway?

If you want to switch weapons as a hypothetical "grunt" you've got to equip.

[JimmyOmaha]

Instead of having extra ammo, or access to more explosives; I'd like to have 2 primary weapon slots. Carbines, Battle Rifles, Assault Rifles, Shotguns! :groovy:

[Tatwi]

At the very least, they should allow us to wear any appearance clothing we want, regardless of what class we are playing. Being able to remove the helmets and have hair would be nice (especially long hair on the females...). Then a person could play a "sniper" without having to wear a jumpsuit, simply because the class that uses that rifle is called "infiltrator". Same with the white helmet, AR using Medic class - look and play how you like, within the class system, without unbalancing the game.

I really don't think identifying what class the enemy is playing matters in this game. If you're able to see them, you should shoot them. Period. Just shoot them. don't "think", shoot! :) But seriously, everything happens so fast that it really doesn't matter who you shoot at first, because everyone is going to die (and respawn) within 2 minutes any way.

[Electrofreak]

So, if you don't get an ability, why not just be medic or engineer or HA anyway?

If you want to switch weapons as a hypothetical "grunt" you've got to equip.

Rob, for me the idea was born out of an annoyance that currently, in order to use certain weapons in the game, you have to play as a certain class. I really like the AR (you were a fan of the MA Gauss Rifle yourself) and while I do like being a Medic, something just doesn't quite sit right with me that only that class can carry an AR.

I think we all get that there should be a reason to play certain classes, but it really should be to play the class, not the weapon. I mean, how many people are running around as Medics right now because they want the gun, not because they actually want to be a Medic? Quite a few, and I'm included, unfortunately.

I think there needs to be a way to allow more variety of weapons in the classes without breaking them. Giving LA ARs, for example, would break the class, which is a mobile short-to-mid range skirmisher. Giving it to Engies is kind of redundant, given the turret they have and how much they already have going for them. It's just not a good fit for any other class.

[Palerion]

I think we all get that there should be a reason to play certain classes, but it really should be to play the class, not the weapon. I mean, how many people are running around as Medics right now because they want the gun, not because they actually want to be a Medic? Quite a few, and I'm included, unfortunately.

I think there needs to be a way to allow more variety of weapons in the classes without breaking them. Giving LA ARs, for example, would break the class, which is a mobile short-to-mid range skirmisher. Giving it to Engies is kind of redundant, given the turret they have and how much they already have going for them. It's just not a good fit for any other class.
I like this. I'm about to go way off topic, but I want to see different weapons. Like, instead of just different statistics and values, they could have different looks, projectiles, and even functions, such as a weapon that is charged and releases a powerful shot. I'd love to see something like that.

[Electrofreak]

I like this. I'm about to go way off topic, but I want to see different weapons. Like, instead of just different statistics and values, they could have different looks, projectiles, and even functions, such as a weapon that is charged and releases a powerful shot. I'd love to see something like that.

Oh man, I just had a Borderlands flashback. Gave me the shivers. :D

[Gonefshn]

We don't need this IMO. You could call it the Schmoe class lol

[Beerbeer]

Lol.

The grunt!

[Palerion]

Oh man, I just had a Borderlands flashback. Gave me the shivers. :D

Are the shivers a good or a bad thing? xD

[Ghoest9]

I don't see the point in this...


this


You can only equip one weapon at a time so it makes sense to play a class suited to the weapon you choose.


Basiclly this just seems like a really complicated way to say HA should be allowed to equip assult rifles.

[Beerbeer]

The point being is that the weapon restrictions are kind of unnecessary IMO. Everything kills fast, unlock all weapons for all non-infiltrator classes and let it flow.

As everyone says, what's the point as you can play any class to get the weapons? Well, what's the point of the restrictions? And if you can answer my question then you would understand my desire.

[Phrygen]

i like the idea.

Why the MEDIC has the best rifle is still beyond me.

There is a light and heavy assault, but there really is no rifleman.

It should be a class that has access to both carbines and ARs, with a less powerful abilty, which can be traded for a rocketlauncher or shotgun slot. Make the ability that can be given up something along the lines of...oh i dont know...

HOW BOUT CHANGE THE ENEMY SPOTTED TO RENDERING INFANTRY FOR YOUR FAR AWAY TANKS AND JETS AND CALL IT SCOUTING???? oh wait that would be to remarkable :(

[Beerbeer]

And, as a bonus to Sony, I bet they would get more SC gun unlocks if that were the case.

[Electrofreak]

...it makes sense to play a class suited to the weapon you choose...

This is exactly the problem. Why are you playing a class based upon the weapons they can equip, instead of the role you want to play?

Are the shivers a good or a bad thing? xD

Good, I loved Borderlands. But obviously elemental damage doesn't really have any place in PS2, though we will be seeing more custom ammo types I suspect. More guns = better, it just produces a nightmare to keep balanced.

[Ghoest9]

This is exactly the problem. Why are you playing a class based upon the weapons they can equip, instead of the role you want to play?




Umm because - you choose a class to play a role in this game.

If this is just a round about way to say PS1s system was better - yes we all agree.
But this game has classes with special abilities.

Wanting a class where the whole point is not to have a special ability is just sillly attention seeking.


It makes more sense to just say the HA should have access to all weapons - which it should.

[Stormhall]

Umm because - you choose a class to play a role in this game.

If this is just a round about way to say PS1s system was better - yes we all agree.
But this game has classes with special abilities.

Wanting a class where the whole point is not to have a special ability is just sillly attention seeking.


It makes more sense to just say the HA should have access to all weapons - which it should.

Why would a HA need a Sniper Rifle a Scout Rifle and a Carbine??? And the only reason why the new Assault shouldn't have a special ability is because we can't think of any apart from one which would be OP and I'd call it Adrenaline and what it does is it limits your FOV a bit has red glow all around the outside of your HUD and it makes you invincible for about 5 seconds and increases your speed by 15% and the only way to fill it back up is to kill more people. (You won't be able to fill it back up when in Adrenaline mode)

[GhostfestivalSG]

Would you like to use an AR without playing as a Medic? How about a Scout Rifle without playing as an Infil? Some people would give up a special ability for that kind of versatility.
but whats the difference? Just play the class that has those weapons if you wanna use them, its not like you are class locked in ps2

[DAtlas]

I agree with Ghoest9, there is no point in creating a character like that.

It's suppose to be a sci-fi war with 2 thousand players, not a rambo-skill war where is you against the world. This "Grunt" class that you're trying to create in your minds it's for people who want to play solo, but this game it's not about that, there are already a lot of stuff that makes it less teamplayer base than PS1.

BTW: If you want two weapons and being a pain in the ass to everyone, there is a class called MAX.

[Stormhall]

I agree with Ghoest9, there is no point in creating a character like that.

It's suppose to be a sci-fi war with 2 thousand players, not a rambo-skill war where is you against the world. This "Grunt" class that you're trying to create in your minds it's for people who want to play solo, but this game it's not about that, there are already a lot of stuff that makes it less teamplayer base than PS1.

BTW: If you want two weapons and being a pain in the ass to everyone, there is a class called MAX.

It's not about being a rambo it's about being able to be a standard baseline backbone soldier that is only specialized in killing infantry without flying around everywhere and can equip most weapons. I personally don't think 2 primary weapons is a good idea though.

EDIT: Some of us just want to be a standard soldier with nothing special and we don't to have to repair stuff or heal people or fly around or charge in, all we want is just a normal soldier with a gun that can shoot stuff.

[DAtlas]

Heavy Assault without the F key?

Edited:

I'm sorry guys but I really can't see your point :(

[Stormhall]

Heavy Assault without the F key?

We want access to rifles and carbines not LMGs so no not HA without F key. Also this class shouldn't take as much brunt as a HA but more than a LA. And no rocket lawnchairs.

[DAtlas]

So you guys just want a simple soldier that can wield any kind of gun?

With less armor than HA but more armor than LA, more speed than HA less than LA. Something between HA and LA with the specialty of using any kind of weapons. Now i can see that happening. They would be good at covering the LA advance.

If this kind of class brings something good to LA, I'm all in.

[Stormhall]

So you guys just want a simple soldier that can wield any kind of gun?

With less armor than HA but more armor than LA, more speed than HA less than LA. Something between HA and LA with the specialty of using any kind of weapons. Now i can see that happening. They would be good at covering the LA advance.

If this kind of class brings something good to LA, I'm all in.

We've concluded that it shouldn't use the Rocket Lawnchair or the Sniper because it just shouldn't but yes you got the idea.

[Sturmhardt]

I don't feel a class is missing, I think there are enough and each of them have a role. If you introduce a new one, their roles will overlap and some other class will get useless, destroying the little balance we have.

[Stormhall]

I don't feel a class is missing, I think there are enough and each of them have a role. If you introduce a new one, their roles will overlap and some other class will get useless, destroying the little balance we have.

The role of this new class won't make any other class role useless but as of now both the medic and engie are useless because of respawn times. The role of the Assault is just to kill and advance (but not charging) nothing more no healing no repairing no infiltration no flying over walls and no massive frontline charging but instead a class that is further in the frontline than the support classes but not as far in as the main combat classes.

TL;DR: A mix between support and combat.

[Shogun]

so what everybody really want is the old freeform inventory system instead of this stupid limiting class system!

the freeform inventory of ps1 was superior to the actual class system. to change it into the perfect system, it just needs to get a blocking system for certain overpowered jack of all trade combinations.
but limiting everybody to 2-5 weaponchoices per class was the wrong way and far too limiting.

i liked to be able to loadout my soldier according to the situation i was expecting. now i am limited to choose a class. the loadout system is only used when i unlock something new. that´s kind of sad and more than a step backwards.

[Memeotis]

This class would have to have a special ability, otherwise there is no point to it. Being able to do something that no other class can do is a requirement. This "grunt" you are proposing sounds like an inferior heavy assault that cannot use a shield.

That said, I do follow what you're saying. There is a void, because the classes that are supposed to fill the role of the "grunt" have roles attached to them; HA destroys vehicles and LA flanks. That's what they are expected to do. There is not one class in this game that is built only to worry about the killing of other infantry.

I can't really think of an ability that would make a "grunt" class viable. What I think could fix this problem, though, would be a more in-depth customization system. If this game gave you the ability to customize your character to the level of say, Blacklight Redemption, players would be much more in control of their role on the battlefield.

[Electrofreak]

Some people get it, some people don't.

The point of all of this is that there are a ton of people running around as a certain class with a certain type of role in-game that they're not really playing because they are only playing the class for the gun(s) it has access to.

No, we don't want HA or LA to have the AR; it messes with the roles of the classes. But should Medics be the only class with the AR? I don't think so. There are a ton of Medics running around that could care less about being a Medic; they just want an AR. And personally, I think that stinks.

[Sturmhardt]

The role of this new class won't make any other class role useless but as of now both the medic and engie are useless because of respawn times. The role of the Assault is just to kill and advance (but not charging) nothing more no healing no repairing no infiltration no flying over walls and no massive frontline charging but instead a class that is further in the frontline than the support classes but not as far in as the main combat classes.

TL;DR: A mix between support and combat.

A mix between support and combat is the engineer or the medic. You don't have to support with them, you can just fight. I don't see anything missing. As a medic you can get an assault rifle or a shotgun, some C4 and you can heal yourself in combat. It's all there, just use it. If you want to be behind the frontline use LA. I don't see what is missing.
If this class had everything the medic has without healing powers, nobody would play it.

[Electrofreak]

A mix between support and combat is the engineer or the medic. You don't have to support with them, you can just fight. I don't see anything missing. As a medic you can get an assault rifle or a shotgun, some C4 and you can heal yourself in combat. It's all there, just use it. If you want to be behind the frontline use LA. I don't see what is missing.
If this class had everything the medic has without healing powers, nobody would play it.

I just don't think that's true. There are a ton of people who play Medic for the AR and don't really care about being a Medic. It's actually pretty frustrating when you need health as another class; those players aren't looking around for players that need health, they're just looking for something to shoot.

[Sturmhardt]

I just don't think that's true. There are a ton of people who play Medic for the AR and don't really care about being a Medic. It's actually pretty frustrating when you need health as another class; those players aren't looking around for players that need health, they're just looking for something to shoot.

I agree, it's not good, but would those players play a class that is just like the medic but has LESS skills? They wouldn't, because they want to heal themselves in battle etc. A new class always has to have a special ability, otherwise nobody plays it.

The solution to the problem you described does not lie in a new class, the solution is to put more incentives on teamplay. If you get more XP for healing or if it is made easier for you to do it, people are more likely to help others. But: Unsocial dicks are always gonna be unsocial dicks, you can't change that, better play with some friends ;)

[Electrofreak]

I agree, it's not good, but would those players play a class that is just like the medic but has LESS skills? They wouldn't. A new class always has to have a special ability, otherwise nobody plays it.

The solution to the problem you described does not lie in a new class, the solution is to put more incentives on teamplay. If you get more XP for healing or if it is made easier for you to do it, people are more likely to help others. But: Unsocial dicks are always gonna be unsocial dicks, you can't change that, better play with some friends ;)

Certainly, the metagame is the problem here. SOE pushing leaderboards and K/D ratios means that people are less concerned with being a team player, and more concerned with killwhoring. This is really the root of the problem.

However, it becomes even more of an issue when a gun good for kill whoring (and I'm not saying the AR is or isn't) is on a support class. While some may argue that it gives a reason for people to play the support class, it really just messes with class balance.

As I wrote in my first post in this thread (post #2), I wanted to write up a suggestion for this "Medium Assault" class a while back but wasn't confident enough in the idea to present it to the community as I wasn't even sure how I felt about it.

And I'm still not sure how I feel about it. I just don't like the idea of weapon types being locked to a single class, but I also don't think that giving the existing classes more options is something that will be balanced.

[Tiberius]

I get it. You want to carry all the guns, be stronger than light assault, and not provide any utility to the other soldiers on the field.

This class will just be another liability for medics to revive lol.