Outrageous Magriders and other balances

[Mordelicius]

Seriously, when are they going to fix this tank?

What kind of tank that is, literally ice skating? :eek:

Not only that, it's mountainclimbing while cornering like some sportscar.

Here's something to keep them in line with the other tanks:

- Reduce the strafing rate
- Lower the speed when it's on a steep slope.
- Lower the acceleration
- The speed should be inverse to the damage it has taken (it should apply to all tanks)

And another thing. The rocket launcher should have 6-8 base ammo. Air and Tank units are being spammed especially by Vanu.

If base amount of ammo is not increased, at the very least it should have more damage against tanks. I mean 4 ammo can take out about 1 tank (including misses/graze). If the engineer doesn't drop you an ammo, you're screwed vs. all the tank spamming.

Lastly, they should give infantry more ways to take down air units. That or increase cost. Infantry are sitting ducks against these units.

Go NC :D!!

[Mox]

I agree prowler and vanguard will loose every 1vs1 against a magrider if the mag driver isnt a noob.

[PredatorFour]

While your on the topic about balancing tanks why don`t we make the other empires tanks (prowler/vannie) only be able to shoot directly infront of them like the mag. Then all 3 would have turrets that can`t move, that ok?

[Ghost Runner]

Really another one of these threads those are what make a mag rider a mag rider you nerf those it becomes useless.

Get 2 tanks or 1 tank and some HAs and that mag will go down easy or a skilled gunner in a vanguard can handle mags all day. Also I have seen lighting wolf packs chew up mag rider convoys so the only real problem is if you are using dumb fire rockets then it is a pain to hit.

[Qwan]

Well Im sure you guys have driven a mag and gotten a feel for the stationary turret design (blame it on the designers). I mean the mag is a skilled based tank, I mean me for one i have no skills with it, but I have guys in my outfit who have tricked out there mags and are very formitable. Im sure each empire has the same type of tank drivers, Ive seen prowlers with reinforced armor as well as NC tanks with shields. I have played with each factions tanks and there is a balance point for each one if you learn it and get upgrades. I still dont like the main gun placed in front but like I said blame the designers, but the strafe on the tanks and the handling is improved with upgrades with certs, alot of guys pay these certs for better handling of there tanks and it pays off in a fight, add in armor and speed and now you have a killing machine in the right hands. Guys the mag is here to stay, I think its balanced with all the other tanks, and for them to change somthing about the straf, or speed or the ability to climb hills would piss off the guys who payed the cert points for it. Hill climbing is a cert skill for the mag.

[psijaka]

Being able to strafe in and out of cover whilst only exposing a heavily armoured low front profile is a huge advantage in any tank battle. I'm fine with that, but there should be a major drawback to balance this advantage, and there just doesn't seem to be one.

[EvilNinjadude]

Alright, let's sum this up.
Magrider can Climb.
Magrider can hover over anything. This is a Huge Bonus.
Magrider is fast. This means acceleration and stuff, and is important.
Magrider can be repaired from underneath, allowing them to stay alive for freaking ever.

Bad Points:
Magrider has less HP. Boo Hoo. One rocket less in the rear, but for Rule #1: The magrider is always facing you.
I have no data on Damage versus other Tanks, but the Splash is huge and capable of decimating infantry in two shots, on from a direct hit.

You might argue that other Tanks have Bonus abilities. The Magburner is one too, remember?

You might argue that this the good points are offset by the Magrider's fixed weapon. You ignore that the Magrider can turn on the spot, strafe without having to look where it is going, and generally stay on target while moving, despite what you people might say.

Good Points of the Magrider: 4
Bad Points of the Magrider: 1 or 2 (depending on how big a deal the HP is for you, plus I have no numbers on the damage).

Moral of the Story: The Magrider is better than you.

[Crator]

You might argue that this the good points are offset by the Magrider's fixed weapon. You ignore that the Magrider can turn on the spot, strafe without having to look where it is going, and generally stay on target while moving, despite what you people might say.

Shouldn't they just slow the turning and strafing (hell, any kind of movement) down for the Magrider then?

[EvilNinjadude]

Shouldn't they just slow the turning and strafing (hell, any kind of movement) down for the Magrider then?

I am not saying that that in particular must be fixed. I am just saying that right now, the Magrider is clearly very powerful.

Devs, if you want the Magrider to be OP to compensate for, say, the Scythe's bad points, fine, but please make sure EVERYONE KNOWS.

I've had my share of deaths to VS, both in Tanks and as infantry (DIRECT ENCOUNTERS for the latter), and will soon be seeing if that has changed in any way since I last played.

My PC is shot by the way, and I don't expect this computer here to run the game, not at all.

[Dragonskin]

Seriously, when are they going to fix this tank?

What kind of tank that is, literally ice skating? :eek:

Not only that, it's mountainclimbing while cornering like some sportscar.

Here's something to keep them in line with the other tanks:

- Reduce the strafing rate
- Lower the speed when it's on a steep slope.
- Lower the acceleration
- The speed should be inverse to the damage it has taken (it should apply to all tanks)

And another thing. The rocket launcher should have 6-8 base ammo. Air and Tank units are being spammed especially by Vanu.

If base amount of ammo is not increased, at the very least it should have more damage against tanks. I mean 4 ammo can take out about 1 tank (including misses/graze). If the engineer doesn't drop you an ammo, you're screwed vs. all the tank spamming.

Lastly, they should give infantry more ways to take down air units. That or increase cost. Infantry are sitting ducks against these units.

Go NC :D!!

As far as balance for vehicles. I disagree... Sunderers with dual bulldogs rip all tanks and all factions can have them. You want to kill tanks get a Sunderer. Magriders are nice, but Vanguards with shields can kill Magriders... mags can't get shields.

You don't need more rocket ammo... base is 5. 1 in the chamber and 4 to resupply. You can increase that to what 7 total if you slot the munitions instead of nanoweave... so you want more rockets you need to sacrifice something. Otherwise like you said you need an engie... not hard to find.. they are usually present in every large scale battle and they have infinite ammo.

Infantry do have other options for anti-air besides rockets. It's a dual burster MAX which are pretty effective. 1 by it self isn't a huge threat, but 2-3 MAXs with dual bursters and you have some good air space denial. Once again you need engies to keep them supplied and repaired.. but a lot of engies follow MAXs for the repair exp anyway.

In the end the game wasn't meant to be played solo and you need to adapt to the situation.

[EvilNinjadude]

As far as balance for vehicles. I disagree... Sunderers with dual bulldogs rip all tanks and all factions can have them. You want to kill tanks get a Sunderer. Magriders are nice, but Vanguards with shields can kill Magriders... mags can't get shields.

You don't need more rocket ammo... base is 5. 1 in the chamber and 4 to resupply. You can increase that to what 7 total if you slot the munitions instead of nanoweave... so you want more rockets you need to sacrifice something. Otherwise like you said you need an engie... not hard to find.. they are usually present in every large scale battle and they have infinite ammo.

Infantry do have other options for anti-air besides rockets. It's a dual burster MAX which are pretty effective. 1 by it self isn't a huge threat, but 2-3 MAXs with dual bursters and you have some good air space denial. Once again you need engies to keep them supplied and repaired.. but a lot of engies follow MAXs for the repair exp anyway.

In the end the game wasn't meant to be played solo and you need to adapt to the situation.

Your argument: Your friends should help you/You need a crap ton of Certs, then you can handle that.

Firstly, this offloads the effort to you. You know what? Sure, I can capture a continent, all I need is A WHOLE OUTFIT. All the other guy needs to do here is Pull One Magrider, whereas what you need to do is get a BETTER rocket launcher, BETTER weapons, BETTER everything. Sure if you're far ahead in the game, but please, anyone can pull a Magrider.

And keep in mind that if I got one of those Super-Sundies, that'd require 3 people to crew. Then let's say the other side get 3 people as well.

1 Sundy vs 3 Magriders? Sure bro, whatever you say. If the Sundy still wins an even-skill head-to-head encounter here, then you can mark it down as OP DEVS FIX PLS on your list, and everyone else can do the same. Because that just doesn't even look bloody likely.

The short of it is: Your argument says: If you have Ideal Situation X, or Power Weapon Y, you HAVE A CHANCE. wow. nice going there.

[PoisonTaco]

As someone who spends a lot of time in the Magrider, I think people need to use it a lot more before they go around calling it OP. I've used it a lot and my most common setup is having the Saron as my secondary gun and the anti-infantry main gun. So my 2nd gunner who's got a turret can take out tanks, and my gun is built for infantry.

The Magrider has mobility yeah, but it isn't nearly as durable as a Vanguard or even a Prowler. Strafing is nice and all, but most tank drivers can compensate for that. It's only at really long range where you can dodge attacks.

Best way to fight a Magrider? Get two HA's to flank it. The Magrider will have to face one of you, and your buddy can fire a rocket into the back. It has less armor than both the Prowler and Vanguard, and while keeping your front facing the enemy is important you're almost NEVER fighting 1 on 1. You're always up against groups.

If you were to slow the Magrider down even more you would gimp the tank. It's fine where it's at.

Edit:
Your argument: Your friends should help you/You need a crap ton of Certs, then you can handle that.

Firstly, this offloads the effort to you. You know what? Sure, I can capture a continent, all I need is A WHOLE OUTFIT. All the other guy needs to do here is Pull One Magrider, whereas what you need to do is get a BETTER rocket launcher, BETTER weapons, BETTER everything. Sure if you're far ahead in the game, but please, anyone can pull a Magrider.

Yeah tanks cost resources, you better bring good weapons if you want to stand a chance against one. Not all tanks are created equal too. Sometimes I build mine purely for fighting infantry. Sometimes it's a mix, sometimes I build my Magrider specifically to kill tanks.

And keep in mind that if I got one of those Super-Sundies, that'd require 3 people to crew. Then let's say the other side get 3 people as well.

1 Sundy vs 3 Magriders? Sure bro, whatever you say. If the Sundy still wins an even-skill head-to-head encounter here, then you can mark it down as OP DEVS FIX PLS on your list, and everyone else can do the same. Because that just doesn't even look bloody likely.

Three people in three Magriders? Those are some weak Mags with 2nd seats not being used at all. Even so, three tanks that cost 300 mechanized each should be able to kill one 400 mech sunderer.

The short of it is: Your argument says: If you have Ideal Situation X, or Power Weapon Y, you HAVE A CHANCE. wow. nice going there.

You bring the right tools for the job. That's how this game works. You equip your armor piercing rounds instead of high explosives if you want to kill tanks. You give your gunner the Walker so you can take care of air. Not every gun and every weapon is going to be ideal in every situation.

[EvilNinjadude]

As someone who spends a lot of time in the Magrider, I think people need to use it a lot more before they go around calling it OP. I've used it a lot and my most common setup is having the Saron as my secondary gun and the anti-infantry main gun. So my 2nd gunner who's got a turret can take out tanks, and my gun is built for infantry.

The Magrider has mobility yeah, but it isn't nearly as durable as a Vanguard or even a Prowler. Strafing is nice and all, but most tank drivers can compensate for that. It's only at really long range where you can dodge attacks.

Best way to fight a Magrider? Get two HA's to flank it. The Magrider will have to face one of you, and your buddy can fire a rocket into the back. It has less armor than both the Prowler and Vanguard, and while keeping your front facing the enemy is important you're almost NEVER fighting 1 on 1. You're always up against groups.

If you were to slow the Magrider down even more you would gimp the tank. It's fine where it's at.

Rule #1: The Magrider is always facing you.
Rule #2: A Magrider seldom comes alone.
Rule #3: If Magriders push you back to your spawn, give up.

Sound like a plan? Taking out one tank with two or more people might be good. But the number of people required to flank magriders will increase further and further the more magriders there are. Exponentially, even.

Magrider is nice and OP where it's at, thank you very much.

[PoisonTaco]

Rule #1: The Magrider is always facing you.
Rule #2: A Magrider seldom comes alone.
Rule #3: If Magriders push you back to your spawn, give up.

Sound like a plan? Taking out one tank with two or more people might be good. But the number of people required to flank magriders will increase further and further the more magriders there are. Exponentially, even.

Magrider is nice and OP where it's at, thank you very much.

1. You can't face every single target all the time. It's also a lot easier to hit the Magrider on the sides than the front. Not nearly as devastating as hitting a tank from behind, but most Mag drivers cert into front armor.
2. Magriders seldom come alone, but they hardly ever fight 1 target at a time.
3. If Magriders push you back to your spawn, your team is doing it wrong.

Yeah the more tanks they bring to a fight, the more people you to need to deal with them. Makes sense doesn't it?

[Sawboss]

1. You can't face every single target all the time.
Pretty sure this is true of all tanks.

Also I think all MBTs have the same amount of hitpoints, but need confirmation from someone with the insider low down secret connections.

[Qwan]

Rule #1: The Magrider is always facing you.
Rule #2: A Magrider seldom comes alone.
Rule #3: If Magriders push you back to your spawn, give up.

Sound like a plan? Taking out one tank with two or more people might be good. But the number of people required to flank magriders will increase further and further the more magriders there are. Exponentially, even.

Magrider is nice and OP where it's at, thank you very much.

I could say the same thing about the prowler and the Vanguard, loaded with HE rounds. If they surround our spawn were toast, and that’s even behind the shields with splash damage coming into the spawn box. Guys I believe that all tanks can be made formidable; you just got to know your vehicle. The Mag drivers use their terrain, The prowler has a high gun turret and can use small rocks to protect its torso and still have its gun exposed, The Vanguard needs to use a defilade but if that’s not possible it needs heavier armor and shields cause that beast can take a beating.
1. Upgrade your armor
2. Pay down your reload with certs (life saver)
3. If your tank killing, give the second gunner a gun that can damage a tank.
4. Always drive your magi as a engi, and have a resupply sundy nearby.
5. Check your ammo type before you spawn, HE for troops, and AP for Tanks.
6. Upgrade your speed, maneuver, and hill climbing. (For the mag this can be done).

I can vouch for the guys in my outfit, they put the certs into their mags armor, weapons and maneuverability. When we roll out in columns we are formidable.

[Dragonskin]

Your argument: Your friends should help you/You need a crap ton of Certs, then you can handle that.

Firstly, this offloads the effort to you. You know what? Sure, I can capture a continent, all I need is A WHOLE OUTFIT. All the other guy needs to do here is Pull One Magrider, whereas what you need to do is get a BETTER rocket launcher, BETTER weapons, BETTER everything. Sure if you're far ahead in the game, but please, anyone can pull a Magrider.

And keep in mind that if I got one of those Super-Sundies, that'd require 3 people to crew. Then let's say the other side get 3 people as well.

1 Sundy vs 3 Magriders? Sure bro, whatever you say. If the Sundy still wins an even-skill head-to-head encounter here, then you can mark it down as OP DEVS FIX PLS on your list, and everyone else can do the same. Because that just doesn't even look bloody likely.

The short of it is: Your argument says: If you have Ideal Situation X, or Power Weapon Y, you HAVE A CHANCE. wow. nice going there.

Wait... bro... you critize me for Ideal situation X or Power Weapon Y when you throw 1 sundy vs 3 magriders? Ok... cool story. Way to do the same thing in your entire whining post.

1 magrider isn't going to do a lot. I don't personally pilot them often, but I see them blowing up all the time. If people can kill them and appearently kill them fairly easy then this is a user problem more so than a balance issue. Prowlers in particular seem to have no issue with Magriders.. I hear people screaming about them all the time too.

I've seen NC and TR tank colums shred Magrider colums. Don't know what to tell you.

[Electrofreak]

Really another one of these threads those are what make a mag rider a mag rider you nerf those it becomes useless.

Get 2 tanks or 1 tank and some HAs and that mag will go down easy or a skilled gunner in a vanguard can handle mags all day. Also I have seen lighting wolf packs chew up mag rider convoys so the only real problem is if you are using dumb fire rockets then it is a pain to hit.

Sure! Just use multiple tanks or combined arms to take down a single tank! And since it only takes a very skilled Vanguard gunner to take down some guy who just figured out that his tank can strafe, there's absolutely no trouble here.

Why didn't we see that before, of course that's balanced! :rolleyes:

I'm not making an argument for or against the Magrider being balanced, I just find the line of reasoning in that post to be ridiculous.

[EvilNinjadude]

Yeah tanks cost resources, you better bring good weapons if you want to stand a chance against one.

You bring the right tools for the job. Not every gun and every weapon is going to be ideal in every situation.

1. Resources =/= Certs

Last time I played, by the time the countdown finished and you could pull another tank, chances were you had gained the amount of resources required to pull the Tank.

Unless your empire is currently weak, but the so help you god.

2. Certs > everything.

Go on, gimme all those weapons you speak of. Give them to me!
Don't we all love the Business model? 'Sidegrades', 'sidegrades' everywhere.

EDIT: Sure! Just use multiple tanks or combined arms to take down a single tank! And since it only takes a very skilled Vanguard gunner to take down some guy who just figured out that his tank can strafe, there's absolutely no trouble here.

Why didn't we see that before, of course that's balanced! :rolleyes:

I'm not making an argument for or against the Magrider being balanced, I just find the line of reasoning in that post to be ridiculous.
My point in a nutshell.
LOOK AT HOW WEAK THE MAGRIDER IS (IF you have/are x,y, and z)

[Dragonskin]

Rule #1: The Magrider is always facing you.
Rule #2: A Magrider seldom comes alone.
Rule #3: If Magriders push you back to your spawn, give up.

Sound like a plan? Taking out one tank with two or more people might be good. But the number of people required to flank magriders will increase further and further the more magriders there are. Exponentially, even.

Magrider is nice and OP where it's at, thank you very much.

Rule #1: The Empire specific tank is always facing you.
Rule #2: A Empire specific tank seldom comes alone.
Rule #3: If the Empire specific tanks push you back to your spawn, give up.

Amazing how that all holds true. Seriously if you are being spawn camped by tanks well your side was out manned. That is all. If 1 tank locks down a spawn room that you are in.. YOU are terrible. You can respawn and fire rockets and the enemy will more than likely not repair their tank in time to save it. OH wait.. that might mess up your meaningless K/D.... my bad. In that case feel free to whine to your hearts content.

[Qwan]

Wow you guys are getting violent on this thread, but I think its all in the skill of the player. I guarentee if you put certs into your vehicle instead of buying cammo, you will see that you will live longer in a fight regardless of the tank you have. I dont play NC but I can guarentee you that if a mag and a vanguard with no certs went head to head, the vanguard would win. Ill put that on my cat (which is cute by the way). I usta think my max was useless untill I started putting certs into it, Duel Nebulas, lower cool down time, flak armor, and extended mags, now that thing rocks. I walk into a room and its like cutting grass. :evil:

[EvilNinjadude]

I agree to the Rules as edited by Dragonskin. This does hold true for all tanks. Keep in mind we were discussing Tank-Infantry tactics at that time.

For Tank-Tank comparison, see my first post, and stop insulting me if (insert optional insult about reading skills here).

Qwan: Okay, maybe I am just a terrible Vanguard driver, but I haven't seen one of those engagements yet, and I think the Vanguard would not win. It would either explode or search for the Magrider as it hides behind a rock at the press of a button, to repair and live to see another engagement.

[Rat]

While your on the topic about balancing tanks why don`t we make the other empires tanks (prowler/vannie) only be able to shoot directly infront of them like the mag. Then all 3 would have turrets that can`t move, that ok?

Thats a fantastic idea...as long as they hover and strafe!!!

[Dragonskin]

Qwan: Okay, maybe I am just a terrible Vanguard driver, but I haven't seen one of those engagements yet, and I think the Vanguard would not win. It would either explode or search for the Magrider as it hides behind a rock at the press of a button, to repair and live to see another engagement.

I see a lot of vangaurds not using their shield. It has a visual glowy effect. I have seen people use it in vids, but never see it in person.

Unlike the Magburner.. the shield can be a game changer. More often than not if you are using magburner you are fleeing.. you surely aren't going to use it to charge into a battle. It's a very short duration speed increase.

As for the Prowler I think they have siege mode right? It increases their fire rate at teh cost of mobility right? They already fire 2 shells before reloading. Maybe that is why I hear people screaming kill the Prowler more often than kill the vanguard. Does the Prowler have an animation for siege mode?

Anyway, I don't hear people screaming about vanguards as much, but like I said I have yet to see a vanguard use their shields in battle. I don't think many NC even know they have an ability to use.

[EvilNinjadude]

The Vanguard shield has a relatively high Cooldown. Unless people dump certs into it, expect it to have CD similar to Flares, or EMP, or that kinda stuff.

As for deployed Tanks, well I dunno. I also haven't heard "Kill that Vanguard" any more than "Kill that Magrider!". Mostly it's just INCOMING MAGRIDERS

[Fenrys]

Being able to strafe in and out of cover whilst only exposing a heavily armoured low front profile is a huge advantage in any tank battle. I'm fine with that, but there should be a major drawback to balance this advantage, and there just doesn't seem to be one.

The Mag's cannon is on the bottom of the tank, where as Vanguard and Prowler turrets are on top. That means NC and TR can hide behind hills and fire while only exposing a small area of their turret to return fire. VS have to strafe out of cover to fire, exposing the entire tank, because their shots are blocked by low obstacles that TR and NC can shoot over.

[Sawboss]

As for the Prowler I think they have siege mode right? It increases their fire rate at teh cost of mobility right? They already fire 2 shells before reloading.
There is an animation for deploying. Reload speed is reduced by about 12% i think per level, which means it's kind of pointless before you max it to 48% which i'm nowhere near doing.

Also they shoot 2 rounds cos each one does about half the damage of a normal tank shell.

Do the other tanks hit directly in the cross hair? The prowler gun is off centre so it tends to fly to the left of infantry if they're silhouetted on a ridge or something. Though I like the look of the tank, that is frustrating and i'd rather it was centered.

[AnamNantom]

Well we did have VERY slow turning early on in beta, that was nuts.. the only way to quickly turn was to bump against objects. You'd probably hear rage if that was lessened.. even more than anyone that complains about magriders in general.

I will say that when I test out the other empires the weapons feel "easy mode". I'm not saying they are, just that time to kill feels faster as TR or NC. Maybe this is a trade-off?

[ShadetheDruid]

Do the other tanks hit directly in the cross hair? The prowler gun is off centre so it tends to fly to the left of infantry if they're silhouetted on a ridge or something. Though I like the look of the tank, that is frustrating and i'd rather it was centered.

Both the Vanguard and the Lightning shoot off centre as well, but it's not that hard to compensate for (whether that's due to them being single shot rather than double I don't know, since i've never used a Prowler).

[EvilNinjadude]

The Mag's cannon is on the bottom of the tank, where as Vanguard and Prowler turrets are on top. That means NC and TR can hide behind hills and fire while only exposing a small area of their turret to return fire. VS have to strafe out of cover to fire, exposing the entire tank, because their shots are blocked by low obstacles that TR and NC can shoot over.

Congratulations! You have used your Brain and made a Valid Point! :) Thank you

Easy mode, Anam? I feel like playing against VS infantry was Hard mode. I went up against a Light Assault in close quarters, repeatedly with Medic and Heavy Assault. I knew where he was, he knew where I was, I came around the corner firing... and go down to the little sucker. I mean what the hell man, NC is meant to be good at that kind of stuff, you know what I mean?

Or were you talking about Tanks?

[Dragonskin]

The Mag's cannon is on the bottom of the tank, where as Vanguard and Prowler turrets are on top. That means NC and TR can hide behind hills and fire while only exposing a small area of their turret to return fire. VS have to strafe out of cover to fire, exposing the entire tank, because their shots are blocked by low obstacles that TR and NC can shoot over.

Right, and to really be an effective magrider you need to constantly be moving. Unfortunately that isn't usually possible because you have so many other people around you that it can make Magrider tank colums annoying to be in... especially as an engineer. At least when I played NC you could kinda follow the tanks and repair them up without worrying as much about being rolled over if you stayed on their side. Magriders are a "repair at your own risk" while they are in combat. More often than not they will strafe over you and kill you.

Also if you want to try to repair a Magrider on a hill.. you can forget about it. You will be chasing that thing down the hill because is just hovers down.

[EvilNinjadude]

You can crouch under Magriders and repair them from there. No risk.

It is possible, and it is a feature, so if it does not work, shoot off a complaint to the devs.

[Crator]

I guarentee if you put certs into your vehicle instead of buying cammo, you will see that you will live longer in a fight regardless of the tank you have.

You can't buy visual customizations with certs. Only SC.

[Crator]

Well we did have VERY slow turning early on in beta, that was nuts.. the only way to quickly turn was to bump against objects. You'd probably hear rage if that was lessened.. even more than anyone that complains about magriders in general.

I will say that when I test out the other empires the weapons feel "easy mode". I'm not saying they are, just that time to kill feels faster as TR or NC. Maybe this is a trade-off?

I remember that. I played VS in early beta and remember the slow turning. Was kind of bad. What if the inital turn was slow but if you kept the turn going it got faster until it hit max turn speed?

[EvilNinjadude]

You can't buy visual customizations with certs. Only SC.

Totally missed that flawed argument. Rest of it is sound though, except for the fact that it takes ages to grind certs.

[Dragonskin]

Totally missed that flawed argument. Rest of it is sound though, except for the fact that it takes ages to grind certs.

Levelcap gets 96 certs in roughly 30 minutes of gameplay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTxidhiUubI&feature=g-all-u

I don't get that much and that was some what of a lucky streak for Levelcap, but as a combat medic I differently get a decent amount over an hour as long as I am in active combat the entire time. Engineers also get a good amount of certs an hour if they are in combat... repairing MAX units, vehicles, terminals, dropping ammo and killing things themselves.

The problem for me is the times sitting waiting for a cap or waiting for my outfit to group up. If I was a solo player I could probably get certs much faster just following the zerg, but I like the team play that running with an outfit offers even if it can lead to slower cert gain.

[EvilNinjadude]

I remember that. I played VS in early beta and remember the slow turning. Was kinda of bad. What if the inital turn was slow but if you kept the turn going it got faster until it hit max turn speed?

You spin me right round baby right round, like a Magtank baby right round etc etc.

[mcFlaw]

Not really sure about if Magmowers are OP or not, but this I do have to say.

Vanu Tanks are the ONLY mbt to always face you and still be able to dodge.

Yes, they can only shoot forward, but that is actually a GOOD thing if you can move in any direction. It means that you, by aiming at your enemy, simultaneously turn your optimal armor towards him/her.
Or to put it another way. It's not that you don't have a turret. You ONLY got a turret and no tank beneath.

Other tanks has to both aim at you AND turn towards you to do that. And if they do, they can't move sideways so they essentially become stationary targets for you to hit with ease.


So yeah... regardless of Mags being OP or not, that argument is simply not true. Not as long as you can strafe.

The only instance turret and tracks helps us is when we lob a few stray rounds sideways while going full speed towards some place. Then it's kinda neat I guess. ;)

Oh and one more thing. Mags are as far as I know the only tank who gets their special ability for free. We have to pay a ton of certs for ours. What's up with that?!

[Dragonskin]

Oh and one more thing. Mags are as far as I know the only tank who gets their special ability for free. We have to pay a ton of certs for ours. What's up with that?!

100 certs last I checked. I know in my default Magrider I don't have a Magburner gauge and shift does nothing.

[Crator]

You spin me right round baby right round, like a Magtank baby right round etc etc.

Well, I meant to include strafe speed as well as turn speed in my statement.

[Papagiorgio]

In a distance battle, it's definitely hard to kill a Magrider one on one because they just strafe side to side (exposing only their heavily armored front) while for me to make the same strafing movement in a Vanguard I have to expose my side.

[EvilNinjadude]

100 certs last I checked. I know in my default Magrider I don't have a Magburner gauge and shift does nothing.

Lol dragonskin, we were talking about the Strafing ability. Magburner is kinda nice, but it's a valuable addon, not a SPECIAL ABILITY, in my book at least.

And ya know what? I'd roll Vanu right now if the VS weren't so gay.

[mcFlaw]

EvilNinjaDude: Actually I WAS referring to the Burner in that particulair quote. It was free in beta, but if its 100 certs now then I got no complaint there. Being able to blast ahead is usefull indeed. It's why we call them Magmowers. I've lost count on how many times a Mag has simply turned towards me, hit that burner and flattened me in an instant, not even bother trying to shoot me. Guess I wasn't worth the ammo. Well, the fact that they chew up newbie engies on a regular basis had something to do with it as well I guess. ;)


Suppose I should add something constructive as well.

What I'd like to see is not a dumbing down of the Magmowers. As annoyingly dodgy as they can be, that's what makes them uniqe. Would be boring to remove that.

What I WOULD like to see is a cert for a 3rd seat that operates the main gun, like it was in PS1. If we had that, then I feel the advantage of the turret being more on the same level as the strafe/armor-towards-enemy ability of the Mag.

It would also add more flavor to our tanks, and not just have them be buffed up Lightnings with a pew-pew on top.

More flavor is always better than less flavor. Keep the Mags as they are, flavor upp the Vans and Prowls, I say! :D

[Forsaken One]

I'm not a tanker but a lot of the mag Vs other two talk seems to be fixed with a simple case of learn to drive and turn your main gun at the same time.

I'm assuming TRs and NCs tanks drive like real world tanks and so must be able to strafe their bodys at full speed while having their main guns full to bare on the enemy.

[Dragonskin]

In a distance battle, it's definitely hard to kill a Magrider one on one because they just strafe side to side (exposing only their heavily armored front) while for me to make the same strafing movement in a Vanguard I have to expose my side.

But you can hide behind a small hill and roll side to side without exposing anything, but your turret when you fire. The magrider would have to be fully exposed to shoot at you.

Meaning that a HA with anti-vehicle rockets will be less likely to lock onto your tank behind the hill and a tank firing at your will have a limited surface to aim for, while a Magrider will be fully exposed for all those glorious lock-on rockets. They might be able to strake a tank, but you won't be able to strake a lock-on as easy. Not to meantion that the Vanguards have higher armor by default and they can have a shield.

All tanks have their positives and negatives.

[EvilNinjadude]

Suppose I should add something constructive as well.

What I'd like to see is not a dumbing down of the Magmowers. As annoyingly dodgy as they can be, that's what makes them uniqe. Would be boring to remove that.

What I WOULD like to see is a cert for a 3rd seat that operates the main gun, like it was in PS1. If we had that, then I feel the advantage of the turret being more on the same level as the strafe/armor-towards-enemy ability of the Mag.

It would also add more flavor to our tanks, and not just have them be buffed up Lightnings with a pew-pew on top.

More flavor is always better than less flavor. Keep the Mags as they are, flavor upp the Vans and Prowls, I say! :D
/sign

Add a third seat for all tanks, and maybe give the Magrider a third turret? Otherwise they will whine because they are no longer OP.

[Dragonskin]

I'm not a tanker but a lot of the mag Vs other two talk seems to be fixed with a simple case of learn to drive and turn your main gun at the same time.

I'm assuming TRs and NCs tanks drive like real world tanks and so must be able to strafe their bodys at full speed while having their main guns full to bare on the enemy.

Yea, these NC and TR tankers need to look at this.
http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/149129-angling-for-dummies/

[Bags]

I find mag to be the only tank worth using. I feel like a deathtrap when I use the prowler or vanguard.

[mcFlaw]

Yea, these NC and TR tankers need to look at this.
http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/149129-angling-for-dummies/

Good stuff, that's pretty much how I drive my Prowler, exWoTer as I am.
That said, I don't think Planetside 2 takes hit angles into consideration. It just checks which hitbox was hit. Or am I wrong on that? So far I've not noticed any particular damage reduction from angling. I've certainly never gotten a Ding. :cry:

[Forsaken One]

I have a question. Can the NC and TR tanks drive faster forward then the mag can strafe sideways?

[mcFlaw]

Yes and No.
They certainly have a higher top speed, but they don't accelerate much faster than the Mags strafe acceleration.

So the advange for TR and NC comes when you, say, drive down a road and a flash tries to sip past you. Then you can turn the turret and blast them as they pass without blocking up the convoy. The Prowlers two shots at half strength is especially good for this.

Our dodge-ability compared to the Mag when we choose to show our sides to them is not greater though.

[Forsaken One]

Well if they have a higher top speed going forward then they have a faster one way ability to cycle strafe then the mag if skilled.

Edited. not "better" just their own way of having their own powerful strafe.

[mcFlaw]

I tried that in the beginning.

Even if I were up right next to the Mag he could still turn faster than I could circle him. All that accomplished was giving him point blank range to my side armor. Doh! :mad:

You need a Lightning to be fast enough to out-circle the Mag.

[AuntLou]

While your on the topic about balancing tanks why don`t we make the other empires tanks (prowler/vannie) only be able to shoot directly infront of them like the mag. Then all 3 would have turrets that can`t move, that ok?


^^^This^^^

If they only knew. Must be nice to drive in the opposite direction of your target at full speed while still shooting at them.

[boogy]

the fixed gun combined with the strafe = better able to keep the target in front of you.

The magrider is OP not because it is better tank vs tank. It is because it's the best at avoiding Heavy Assault attacks. I play mostly HA and I can kill maybe 1 in 5 vangaurds when one on one. With Magriders it's probably 1 in 20. You need multiple HA coming at different angles to take out a single Mag. When they come in packs of 7 or so, they are impossible to stop with any infantry combo or amount.

The way to balance magriders vs other tanks is to not nerf it's mobility, but to increase the rocket re-load speed for NC and TR HA launchers . You alse have to make the magriders belly receptive to rocket splash damage. You can not globally balance the Heavy Assauly against a Mag and not make them(HA) OP against the other tanks. You have to specifically buff the NC and TR rockets and leave the VS where it is at.

[Arkanor]

While your on the topic about balancing tanks why don`t we make the other empires tanks (prowler/vannie) only be able to shoot directly infront of them like the mag. Then all 3 would have turrets that can`t move, that ok?

This is a bunk argument, since the Magrider spins so fast it really never matters. If your entire TANK can do a full 360 in under 4 seconds who cares if it has a turret or not?

^^^This^^^

If they only knew. Must be nice to drive in the opposite direction of your target at full speed while still shooting at them.

If you're willing to turn your rear armor to them, then yes you can retreat somewhat faster than a mag. It's much preferable to reverse at 30kph and not take 6x normal damage from each hit though.

[Arkanor]

Yea, these NC and TR tankers need to look at this.
http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/149129-angling-for-dummies/

There are no armor penetration mechanics in Planetside 2. If you expose the side armor and it gets hit, you take side armor damage. In World of Tanks, shells can bounce and this is a viable tactic to place your front armor in such a way that it is offset to the enemy. If you expose your side armor in that game at a shallow offset angle they stand a very low chance of penetrating.

In short, "real" tank tactics don't mean jack. Turrets turn nearly instantly. The Mag does a full spin in 4 seconds, and shells can't bounce. The potential "Hull Down" play the Prowler and Vanguard might be able to exploit is minimally effective because your turret is no better armored than the rest of your tank, not to mention the maps don't make much of that style play possible.

[Dragonskin]

There are no armor penetration mechanics in Planetside 2. If you expose the side armor and it gets hit, you take side armor damage. In World of Tanks, shells can bounce and this is a viable tactic to place your front armor in such a way that it is offset to the enemy. If you expose your side armor in that game at a shallow offset angle they stand a very low chance of penetrating.

In short, "real" tank tactics don't mean jack. Turrets turn nearly instantly. The Mag does a full spin in 4 seconds, and shells can't bounce. The potential "Hull Down" play the Prowler and Vanguard might be able to exploit is minimally effective because your turret is no better armored than the rest of your tank, not to mention the maps don't make much of that style play possible.

The idea was more of how you should look at a tank battle as a true tank... not compare it to War of Tanks which Planetside 2 clearly is not... hence the game being called Planetside 2 instead of War of Tanks 2.

A lot of the people posting that Magriders are OP are the same terrible tankers that treat tanks as stationary turrets... which is not the point of a true tank. Your goal isn't to sit in 1 spot and try to kill things moving around you. You are supposed to move with the flow of battle to present the smallest target your enemy can hit and if you do have to be hit, make sure it is where you have the best armor.

[Arkanor]

The idea was more of how you should look at a tank battle as a true tank... not compare it to War of Tanks which Planetside 2 clearly is not... hence the game being called Planetside 2 instead of War of Tanks 2.

A lot of the people posting that Magriders are OP are the that treat tanks as stationary turrets... which is not the point of a true tank. same terrible tankers Your goal isn't to sit in 1 spot and try to kill things moving around you. You are supposed to move with the flow of battle to present the smallest target your enemy can hit and if you do have to be hit, make sure it is where you have the best armor.

The problem is that a lot of tank positioning is really managing armor facing correctly. The Magrider spins as fast as a turret and doesn't have to do it, because the front armor is always facing targets.

The only disadvantages are shooting over chest high walls (fixable by cert) and maneuvering around allies to not kill them.

[forasong]

OP..

Sounds like you need a game more like "Hello Kitty Island Adventure", maybe then you will stop your fucking crying...then again, prob not.

[Ghost Runner]

Really another one of these threads those are what make a mag rider a mag rider you nerf those it becomes useless.

Get 2 tanks or 1 tank and some HAs and that mag will go down easy or a skilled gunner in a vanguard can handle mags all day. Also I have seen lighting wolf packs chew up mag rider convoys so the only real problem is if you are using dumb fire rockets then it is a pain to hit.Sure! Just use multiple tanks or combined arms to take down a single tank! And since it only takes a very skilled Vanguard gunner to take down some guy who just figured out that his tank can strafe, there's absolutely no trouble here.

Why didn't we see that before, of course that's balanced! :rolleyes:

I'm not making an argument for or against the Magrider being balanced, I just find the line of reasoning in that post to be ridiculous.

I find your line of reasoning to be ridiculous as well. If you can't find help in a team based game your doing some thing wrong. Also fighting the other tanks as infantry is no cake walk either same tactics would apply for taking out a vanny or prowler as well.

[Methonius]

To the guys that keep complaining about how hard it is to hit mags with the HA rocket launcher get the one that locks on. Problem Solved. You will force us to have to get smoke screen instead of magburner.

[Brusi]

You would think from these sorts of threads that Magriders aren't just blowing up constantly, everywhere.

At least the OP Magmower threads have some legitimacy.

L2Tank.

[Timealude]

the fixed gun combined with the strafe = better able to keep the target in front of you.

The magrider is OP not because it is better tank vs tank. It is because it's the best at avoiding Heavy Assault attacks. I play mostly HA and I can kill maybe 1 in 5 vangaurds when one on one. With Magriders it's probably 1 in 20. You need multiple HA coming at different angles to take out a single Mag. When they come in packs of 7 or so, they are impossible to stop with any infantry combo or amount.

The way to balance magriders vs other tanks is to not nerf it's mobility, but to increase the rocket re-load speed for NC and TR HA launchers . You alse have to make the magriders belly receptive to rocket splash damage. You can not globally balance the Heavy Assauly against a Mag and not make them(HA) OP against the other tanks. You have to specifically buff the NC and TR rockets and leave the VS where it is at.


No here's the problem if you do that, you give the other 2 empires a huge advantage over the others simply by making them able to kill all our vehicles faster. Ill admit magriders are some freakin awesome tank but you have no idea how much of a hindrance the forward facing gun can be...yes its a blessing but also a curse. A lightning can easily run up behind a mag and lay shots into it from behind before it has time to react (unless it has a 2nd gunner). Also mags cant really retreat well....if you turn around you risk exposing your back armor and people who drive tanks know thats the worst thing you can do. When you back up in a magi its almost at a snail's pace. Heres where the mag burner comes in... The mag burner is what makes our tank so great, it gives us that extra edge to make up for our lack of a turning gun. The only one lacking in the special ability is the prowler.

The prowler has the highest DPS out of all the tanks but that lock down can hurt you very badly when your in a tank battle...If I was to do something I would have that ability increase the armor in the back of the tank as well when active that way if you do get flanked you can turn the turret around and fight back whatever is hitting you.

As for the vanguard, they have an extremely good ability....If I meet a vanguard on the road I back up and try to hide for the simple fact of that shield. Its very hard to fight them unless you have the right area and cover to do it...I would never try to have an open shoot out with a vanguard on the simple grounds with I would lose shot for shot as well as with that extra shield, I would lose faster.

The magrider is fine where its at, in beta they already nerfed the strafing speed of it once and nerfing it again would make the tank useless.

[Conq]

Being able to strafe in and out of cover whilst only exposing a heavily armoured low front profile is a huge advantage in any tank battle. I'm fine with that, but there should be a major drawback to balance this advantage, and there just doesn't seem to be one.

This guy summed it up pretty well. It doesn't matter that Mags can't swivel their turret, that is nothing but an advantage to them due to their strafe, climbing, turn and speed. They need a real penalty, not an imagined one.

[Cronoc]

Rather than calling for one of the more unique vehicles in the game to be made boring, why not ask for upgrades to make your tanks competitive again? That is, if there is really a problem at all.

More fun for everything to be overpowered than underpowered and boring.

[Electrofreak]

I find your line of reasoning to be ridiculous as well. If you can't find help in a team based game your doing some thing wrong. Also fighting the other tanks as infantry is no cake walk either same tactics would apply for taking out a vanny or prowler as well.

Of course it's a team based game, but saying that it's balanced to need multiple players to take out another player with the same class of vehicle is absolutely absurd. I really hope you realize this.

This thread is a discussion of balance, not how to kill Magriders. We all know how to kill Magriders, the point of this thread is to discuss a potential balance issue with the other empire MBTs. The Magrider has some unique attributes which can make it very powerful in certain scenarios. We are here to talk about whether this constitutes an unfair advantage.

Do you understand?

To the guys that keep complaining about how hard it is to hit mags with the HA rocket launcher get the one that locks on. Problem Solved. You will force us to have to get smoke screen instead of magburner.

Another ridiculous post. "Hey, if you want to counter us, you need to spend 1000 cert points. Problem solved."

I have an idea. Lets make it so that the VS standard rocket launcher fires confetti instead of rockets. It would be balanced since all they need to do is cert into a different rocket launcher to be effective, amiright?

[Arkanor]

Right now the Mag has some clear advantages, but one of the major ones (I think) that goes overlooked is.

An inherent gun stabilizer. In the Vanguard or Prowler you feel *every* bump in the road and it knocks your gun off target. The Mag just drifts over most of these and you can fire on the move fairly accurately.

The downside? If you're on the side of a hill you'll slide, but apparently the other tanks' turrets will droop down as well which is ridiculous given the turn rate they have, that turret motor has enough torque to twist the tank in half. To the person who said a lightning can get behind it, you're just wrong. The Lightning doesn't have the turning speed to keep up with a rotating Magrider, it's not even a contest.


I think the Mag can be fixed by making it not turn so damn fast (a full 360 should take ~10 sec), slowing the turn rate of ALL turrets (but still allowing them to have a significant advantage at that), and speeding up MBT ammo, or at least AP/HEAT. Tank shells fire from most MBT's today at >5000ft/s, it's very much a precision weapon and just lobbing shells at enemy tanks is ridiculous.

The strafe speed, terrain performance, gun stabilization all are inherent effects of being a hover tank. The Mag doesn't need to lose those.

[Fenrys]

The only disadvantages are shooting over chest high walls (fixable by cert)

What cert fixes it?
Secondary weapons can be equipped by all empires, so that's only half a fix.

[Jonny]

Magriders don't need a nerf, they are supposed to be manoeuvrable, deal with it!

I see prowlers turrets popped over a rock all the time, shelling me in a magrider and I have to expose my whole tank to do the same thing. When a good enemy wants to kill me, im toast...its not that hard to take out a mag when you go for the rear, or are a HA on top of a decent sized rock.

Without any upgrades they can get stuck quite easily, like any tank.

[Ghost Runner]

Of course it's a team based game, but saying that it's balanced to need multiple players to take out another player with the same class of vehicle is absolutely absurd. I really hope you realize this.

This thread is a discussion of balance, not how to kill Magriders. We all know how to kill Magriders, the point of this thread is to discuss a potential balance issue with the other empire MBTs. The Magrider has some unique attributes which can make it very powerful in certain scenarios. We are here to talk about whether this constitutes an unfair advantage.

Do you understand?


No you see if they nerf the mag then they will inadvertently buff the other two MBTs then people will cry they are OP and then they get nerfed then the mag becomes OP again and the circle continues, giving valid tactics is the best solution to the problem nerfing is not.

There is nothing wrong with the mag rider it is simply a matter of perspective and tactics in this case. It is like saying nerf the lighting because its to fast to hit with my prowler dose it really need a nerf or do I just need to to be smarter when leading my target? You see what I did there?

Do you understand what I am saying now? Giving tactical advice is better then trying to fix something that is not really broken.

[Gortha]

A decent Vanguard Crew with active Vangaurd shield beats every 1on1 against a Magrider or Prowler. Also a Prowler with a decent crew can beat the Magrider.

Most Prowler and Vanguard drivers(main Gunner) are too stupid to maneuver and aim at the same time.

The forward faced gun of the magrider makes this easier for the Vanu dirver(main gunner).

But with time Vanguard and Prowler drivers getting better at maneuvering and shooting they will be way better than a magrider.

[Qwan]

lets just face it guys the vehicles are here to stay, they removed the driver and gunner concept because they wanted tanks to get into the fight. Not to mention thats how BF and CoD work, this is there new target audience. The Mag is a balanced tank, I hope they keep all the tanks the way they are. I think on open ground mags do have the advantage, with the fixed turret they can stay on target with the strafe, I mean look at the Esamir, open terrain the the VS seem to lock it up pretty quickly. I like the vehicles and think that they are balanced and can be improved with certs as you spend the points.

[Snugglepuff]

Another ridiculous post. "Hey, if you want to counter us, you need to spend 1000 cert points. Problem solved."


If you want to shoot down aircraft reliably with a rocket you'll need to do the same, and those are even easier to avoid than the anti-armor lock on rockets. I don't really find it that far fetched or ridiculous that they want you to upgrade your weapons to be more effective and specialized.

Also, it's not like you're only supposed to use the lock on AT rocket to shoot mags. Blast a Lightning that think's he's awesome at dodging with it. Or a Flash as it speeds by- that's a funny one.

[Hamma]

I've been annoyed by the Mag Rider ever since PlanetSide 1 and it's worse in PlanetSide 2. It's a tank, but it doesn't have to abide by tank rules. That makes it extremely versatile and flexible in armor fights vs standard tanks. I don't think the tradeoffs make up for the bonuses.

[EvilNinjadude]

If you want to shoot down aircraft reliably with a rocket you'll need to do the same, and those are even easier to avoid than the anti-armor lock on rockets. I don't really find it that far fetched or ridiculous that they want you to upgrade your weapons to be more effective and specialized.

Also, it's not like you're only supposed to use the lock on AT rocket to shoot mags. Blast a Lightning that think's he's awesome at dodging with it. Or a Flash as it speeds by- that's a funny one.

Let me just butt in here quickly and say that the Lock-on 'specialization' is a straight-up buff. Also, AA is effectively limited to turrets and one arm of a MAX for standard players.

Where is the 20% advantage that SOE claimed Vets would have over new players? Dat's right. 20%, my ASS.

I read in an earlier post that Skill should not factor into Tank balance directly, only indirectly. The precise wording, I believe, was along the lines of 'I should not need to be a vet to beat a Magrider driver who just found out his tank can Strafe'.

Let's find the summary argument from the last few posts:

NC&TR: Magriders are OP when going fresh against fresh.
VS: NC and TR should SKILL UP (because skilled NC&TR beats Magriders all the time apparently)

I think what we're doing here is arguing past each other, when we should be arguing progression systems, right? The Magrider appears to be the 'Easy mode' Tank, which lacks armor, but is truly Better in Every Other Respect.

Meanwhile, in the late game, everything appears to have changed and the VS are suddenly arguing the other way: That they have been defeated by Skill, and Skill is OP: And if you cannot defeat a Magrider it is for lack of SKILL.


No no no no no. This is all wrong.

[Eduard Khil]

http://www.sandelman.ca/People/Justin_Hornosty/ROFL/omfg_files/roflcraft.gif

http://www.sandelman.ca/People/Justin_Hornosty/ROFL/omfg_files/lollerskates.gif

[EvilNinjadude]

^Pretty much that, yeah.

The ROFLCRAFT is Overpowered and all-destroying on the internet, but falters in the Face of Real Life and other places populated by intelligent people.

[Fear The Amish]

Mag +
Strafe Good at range useless close up
Forward facing turretless gun
Ability to Climb

Mag -
Slowest top speed in game
Slowest Reverse in game
Cannot shoot backwards or to the side
Cannot shoot over obstacles
Cannot Hull down
Cannot fire over cover
Largest front target (its front is wider then any other tank including a prowler)

Personally i play the mag because it is the only tank worthy of the name VS have. BUT i would love a traditional tank because of its multiple advantages over the mag. As a person who played WoT for years a mag just can't do so many things a Vangaurd or a Prowler can. I miss being able to cover everything but my turret with an obstacle. I miss being able to actually quickly move from cover to cover to attack. i HATE being a giant floating target that air just devours. Basically we have +'s but we have just as many -'s.

[EvilNinjadude]

Mag +
Strafe Good at range useless close up
Forward facing turretless gun
Ability to Climb

Mag -
Slowest top speed in game
Slowest Reverse in game
Cannot shoot backwards or to the side
Cannot shoot over obstacles
Cannot Hull down
Cannot fire over cover
Largest front target (its front is wider then any other tank including a prowler)

Personally i play the mag because it is the only tank worthy of the name VS have. BUT i would love a traditional tank because of its multiple advantages over the mag. As a person who played WoT for years a mag just can't do so many things a Vangaurd or a Prowler can. I miss being able to cover everything but my turret with an obstacle. I miss being able to actually quickly move from cover to cover to attack. i HATE being a giant floating target that air just devours. Basically we have +'s but we have just as many -'s.

Your argument on 'hiding the tank' makes Sense, especially in places like Amerish (which I haven't played on) but not, for example, in Esamir.
In Light of your Arguments, allow me to humorously re-state MY arguments.

Alright, let's sum this up.
Magrider can Climb up hills.
Magrider can climb over obstacles.
Magrider can strafe over people, and crush them.
Magrider can strafe without bumping into anything.
Magrider is easy to pilot.
Magrider can hover over anything.
Magrider can accelerate quickly and precisely.
Magrider can be repaired from underneath, allowing them to stay alive for freaking ever.

Bad Points:
Magrider has less HP.
Magrider moves more slowly when strafing while targeting.
Magrider is large.

And thus, by splitting up my points, and not elaborating on those that I want to disprove, I suddenly have SO MANY PLUSES and so little minuses.

Not every argument is a +1 or a -1. I tried to keep my original argument balanced though; it is on the first page of this thread.

[Rbstr]

I agree the the basic piloting for a mag is a somewhat easier. Not having to keep track of turret orientation is a distinct advantage. You automatically have the front armor forward in direct confrontations ect.

Not having the turret, however, is a distinct disadvantage. Not being able to shoot over or around terrain and maintain cover hurts a lot. You have to rely on maneuverability. But in many situations you don't actually have any. Roads are often very constricted as are most bases and it makes gun and weak-point orientation a pain because you bind up on things/other mags.
You also can't keep damage on a target while retreating.

It cannot hover over everything and will high center on things that are not "ground"

EDIT: Oh and our AI secondary gun sucks nuts.

[Mordelicius]

Some specific examples how Magriders are insanely overpowered:

Mobility - These guys can surround the base easily. They position themselves anywhere especially point their nose at the building entrance with impunity and strafe like nothing. Have you seen any other tanks camp literally right outside the door with no fear whatsover that they can be outflanked?

Maneuverability - These can twist, turn, shift and speed up like crazy. That is far too much for a tank. Any other tanks can't evade rocket launchers that crazy. They can move at any direction far too quickly.

Escaping - These guys are the easiest tank to escape with. That's you see them poking in and out of different spots the most. They have no real disadvantage other than HP. I mean a superfast hover tank that has a turret for a body. That's no weakness, that's an advantage.

Derp factor - Have you seen any other tank hide behind the hills sniping on the side. All of a sudden go in a burst of speed, go up a steep incline at full speed, turn then sideswipe alot of infantry on the face of a large hill, fire loads of shots then escape at the other side with ease?

[Storn]

In a distance battle, it's definitely hard to kill a Magrider one on one because they just strafe side to side (exposing only their heavily armored front) while for me to make the same strafing movement in a Vanguard I have to expose my side.

Creating a larger profile.

[Arkanor]

I agree the the basic piloting for a mag is a somewhat easier. Not having to keep track of turret orientation is a distinct advantage. You automatically have the front armor forward in direct confrontations ect.

Not having the turret, however, is a distinct disadvantage. Not being able to shoot over or around terrain and maintain cover hurts a lot. You have to rely on maneuverability. But in many situations you don't actually have any. Roads are often very constricted as are most bases and it makes gun and weak-point orientation a pain because you bind up on things/other mags.
You also can't keep damage on a target while retreating.

It cannot hover over everything and will high center on things that are not "ground"

EDIT: Oh and our AI secondary gun sucks nuts.

Your tank does a full 360 in 4.5 seconds, you don't even need a turret at that point because really what can possibly get around you?


The major disadvantages right now are:

-Camera locked to front facing
-Inability to fight hull down over hill approaches due to low hull positioning of the gun

However, the maneuverability is *mostly* OK, they just need to make tank shells go faster than 700ft/s and more like 2000 and then you have a real tank-on-tank battle.

[Fear The Amish]

Your argument on 'hiding the tank' makes Sense, especially in places like Amerish (which I haven't played on) but not, for example, in Esamir.
In Light of your Arguments, allow me to humorously re-state MY arguments.

Alright, let's sum this up.
Magrider can Climb up hills. Correct
Magrider can climb over obstacles.Incorrect it gets stuck very often without wasting your 100 cert equip burner
Magrider can strafe over people, and crush them. other tanks can road kill
Magrider can strafe without bumping into anything.Incorrect if you go over anything it throws your aim off
Magrider is easy to pilot.ok... but no harder then any other tank
Magrider can hover over anything.incorrect gets stuck on anything other then very small obstacles that any other tank could go over
Magrider can accelerate quickly and precisely.accelerates slower then other tanks
Magrider can be repaired from underneath, allowing them to stay alive for freaking ever. Incorrect you can repair it from under the back engines but since it floats it has a high chance of rolling over and either killing you or droping you through the world

Bad Points:
Magrider has less HP.
Magrider moves more slowly when strafing while targeting.
Magrider is large.
Magrider is slower straight out and reverse then any other MBT
Magrider's center mounted gun cannot fire over obstacles
Magrider Cannot go turret down
Magrider Does not work the way a normal tank does so is counter intuitive

And thus, by splitting up my points, and not elaborating on those that I want to disprove, I suddenly have SO MANY PLUSES and so little minuses.

Not every argument is a +1 or a -1. I tried to keep my original argument balanced though; it is on the first page of this thread.

Its kinda funny how many misconceptions you have about a magrider

[Xaine]

Outrageous 'boo hoo' and other tears.

[Rbstr]

Your tank does a full 360 in 4.5 seconds, you don't even need a turret at that point because really what can possibly get around you?

That's not what I'm talking about:
The tank as a whole gets stuck on stuff that can prevent you from turning around at all. The turrets do not, they can point the gun regardless of how stuck the tank is.

[Mox]

Its funny to see how the vs guys try to defend their über-mbt with talking about tactics to kill a mag. These tactics always involve HA or something else but they never talk about a 1vs1 mbt fight because they know the mag is absoluty über in a 1vs1.

I dont think that the mag must be nerfed but at least the prowler need a buff. Maybe also the vanguard.

[The Messenger]

IMO magriders aren't OP, just cheap. What needs to be done is gyro-strabalizing all the tanks and then give us back the lock on enforcer. It didn't do THAT much damage to warrant a nerf, especually when you factor in that godly sauron.

My HEAT lightning with level 2 rival chasis and no armor can circle a magrider before he can get his main turret pointed at me; I just need relatively flat terrain to do it. I'll take on a magrider any day with my lightning rather than my slow shielded vannie. The only time they can pin me down is when they manage to "hover" and pinning my tank redndering it imobile. Factor in the lag compensation and they got one free shot before my client realizes the magrider is no longer ontop of me. Half a second is a big deal when trying to outmanuever an MBT in a lightning. For the record, most of my tank deaths come from HA or ESF. Rarely does a tank kill me, especially when in my lightning.

Vanguard to Magrider ratio ~3-1.
Lightning to Magrider ratio ~8-1