Friendly Fire ruins this game.

[Miffy]

I cannot stand to play it anymore there are just too many people to justify it being there. I don't get why there is collision for vehicles but not character models, all that happens as a result is you get loads of people running straight through you and you end up shooting them. I hate how every time I spawn a vehicle, I seem to get auto driven out into another vehicle and it gives me grief. I came straight out in a warp gate into two mosqs that were parked there and got a final warning as soon as I logged in.

In massive fights everyone just lags around and you cannot shoot anything because player movement is not smooth, so you always tend to shoot friendlys because you cannot predict players movement when there is 100 people trying to get up the stairs.

I had a lib fly straight into me and I got grief even though I blew up. Where are my resources back for that dumb pilot? Why am I being punished? Why is damage to friendlys with vehicles on? Half the time I'm running over people who I never even saw. I'm not looking all around me when I'm being fired on by AV weapons because in Planetside 2 it only takes a couple to beat a tank.

It is weird because you barely tap someone and they die, can't they lower the damage vehicles do to friendly players? I swear I walked into a tank once and died, like it wasn't even moving! How the tell do vehicles kill players so easily? Why all the time if an aircraft clips you, does your vheicle them straight away turn upside down? What is that all about?

Most the fights end up being a spawn camp fest because the influence system means to capture a base you have to sit there and make sure they don't respawn to fight back. It is the most retarded system in the world and always ends up in 100s of friendly fire incidents because there are just too many people in those poorly designed bases. I mean didn't SOE know there would be so many people fighting for capture points and camping the spawns to capture a base? It doesn't take a genius to work out there needed to be a more open floor plan. Navigating the inside court yard of a base is a nightmare too because you wanna go to get some more ammo, but you end up having hundreds of other vehicles all ramming into each other because of the right spaces. A Lightning rammed into me on purpose and I got a final warning, then he kept shooting me behind the arse until I blew up, I couldn't fight back because I'd then have a weapon lock.


I don't care about people claiming how it'll increase weapon spam, just have it so you cannot shoot through models like you cannot now! It is the worst system in the world, there is no visual feedback like what Planetside had to show you how much grief you have, there is no timer and it just needs to go! I cannot play this game any more until FF is gone.

[Bags]

Oh but it stops spam in ps2 !!!1!!1!!!

[Sifer2]

Well if it wasn't there a lot of tactics would go out the window, and just become a spam fest. I believe they already reduced the damage vehicles did to friendlies at lower speeds. Though I do believe that a player should not be held accountable for any FF when his vehicle is not in his control leaving the pad.

[Ghoest9]

Friendly fire keeps the game from sucking.

I cannot play this game any more until FF is gone.
bye

[Serpent]

We need it. It's not about spam increasing significantly, to put it simply its about forcing people (because most are too silly to do it themselves) to have awareness of the general A.O., and where their friendlies are. Without Friendly Fire, you don't care where you threw a grenade, so long as its toward an enemy. With Friendly Fire, you don't throw the grenade, you get into a BETTER POSITION before you do so, which not only helps you throw the grenade it helps the whole battle as you now have a flanking position.

[Infernalis]

If it was me I would reduce the damage of friendly fire at 50% and completely removes friendly fire from collision with friendly vehicles.

It's way more annyoing in PS2 than in BF (the old BFs since there's no more ff in BF3...) because the game naturally make you group in tight areas and PS1 was different because of all the fights in towers with all the AOE weapons (thumper spam, etc).

[Miffy]

The thing is it is already a spamfest, try to fight for one of those towers with the 4 landing pads which doesn't register on the map if you capture one. All FF does is acts to annoy you and other people, it doesn't stop the spam. What does stop the spam is simply not being able to shoot through player models because then you're wasting ammo. Also what reduces nade spam is how if you throw a nade it can bounce off friendlys making it pointless too.

FF adds nothing to the game, it has no function other that to annoy and no collision on enemy soldiers is another thing, all that ever ends up happening when trying to knife is you end up running inside each other.

[Roidster]

stop jumping in front of bullets,its simple really

[Roidster]

http://t.qkme.me/3s02wg.jpg

[Figment]

Removing friendly fire does not improve the game play as it would make people think less about their positioning with respect to others. Spam is just one consequence. The other is that people happily go and sit in front of others without considering what it means to their ally in blocking their shots, etc. Plus would result in some new ways of block griefing I'm sure...

It also means you can't use an enemy against its own allies by deliberately causing or baiting enemy fire into their own positions, or using their allied units as a deterent to fire at you while you're in cover behind it or running through them. Imagine the rarer scenario if you could just spam tank shells between friendlies while an enemy tries to rush through (which often works today), rather than hold fire. All those little things would be lost though, just because of bad hit boxes, poor positioning, extremely low TTKs, etc.


Increasing TTK length would prevent most the untimely deaths by friendly fire as well as make the game more newbee friendly.

[PredatorFour]

You pro`s can belittle the OP all you like but he does make a valid point, something i was saying to outfit mates the other night...

Why is there no collisions with troops yet friendly vehicles can just run you over?

It does seem slightly retarded don`t you think ??? ....Btw i`m totally against friendly fire NOT being in the game. Coming from a original PS background i think it is most definitely essential, most notably to stop the spamfests as was mentioned above.

[Figment]

Collission models would make sense. The only issue they should have prevented was door blocking. Alas, they made tiny doors.

[The Messenger]

Simply put, if you're going to spawn a vehicle check and see if someone is on the pad. And if you are going to land on or drive through the pad, look to see if someone is on the terminal. Play the game thinking you are smarter than everyone else (most already do) and CYOA. Most pubs just seem to be down right stupid with things they do. Standing infront of spawn rooms, grenading enemy force fields, stand around with an enemy next to them, etc. And the weapons lock was WAY worse in beta. First lock lasted 20 minutes at least. A single incident after it wore off would warrant another 20-40 minute weapon lock. The grief system is way more forgiving with release.

You're going to TK, it's just the nature of this game with so many players, you just need to minimize how much of it that is going to happen. I know how frustrating it is to lose an ESF to an idiot pilot, I lose over half of mine to TK's as opposed to enemy fire. It sucks but nothing you can do, FIDO.

[Chaoskoz]

FF makes the game. It requires you to think.

[Ghoest9]

They tried collision in late stage beta - it really didnt work.

In real life 2 friendly people can can easily pass each other in the space needed for one person. And we dont even have to think about doing it - its natural.

But in game its like a log jam.

[Crator]

I haven't had too many FF issues. When driving, stay away from pockets of ground troops or drive slow around them. Don't walk in front of your empire mates when they are setup to shoot. Hold your fire if an empire mate walks in front of you and reposition yourself if need be. Oh, and always be aware of your surroundings and what is going on.

[CrankyTRex]

Yeah, my patience for FF is definitely coming to an end. If it's supposed to force people to have some awareness of what's going on, well, it's failing miserably. There's just too much to keep track of and most people simply cannot be bothered.

It is not helped at all by the designs of the bases, where everyone is confined to tight spawn rooms that can only fit one person going through the door. Nevermind all the other situations where you spot someone running over open ground, move to shoot them, and have somebody run right into your line of fire as they try to get the kill themselves. It makes the Engineer turrets almost completely worthless too because every idiot in the game seems to think the best place to stand is right in front of them.

And as far as stopping someone from tossing grenades randomly? Yeah it doesn't do that either. Moreover, I find the grenades *never* go where I'm aiming to throw them either because they hit something invisible or bug out and fall inside some piece of terrain or some such.

In the air it is an absolute nightmare, especially near spawns since those are also the repair/rearm locations. It's absolutely infuriating to spawn an aircraft, get rammed by a friendly such that it crashes into a tower before the aircraft is even under your control, and then have to sit there and wait for the timer to reset. To say nothing of when everyone chooses to engage the same target when the aircraft is at least under your control.

In a game where hundreds of people are confined to tight spaces always running around, with frame rates that can drop suddenly as a bunch of players show up, it simply is not a practical feature.

[Ghoest9]

well that is a good point - its bloody impossible to predict what will happen when you throw a grenade.

[Rodel]

Why don't you just play smarter? I've gotten though the whole Beta with out ever being weapons locked.

What's the point of FF? Well your the point.

[maradine]

I've been weapon-locked twice since launch. Once for being a complete prick and magburning all the way up the approach to the Crown (sorry Genudine!) and once for being utterly unable to resist the best FF grenade toss in my lifetime. I completely deserved both of them. I've never even been close otherwise. What the fuck are you guys doing?

[CrankyTRex]

I've been weapon-locked twice since launch. Once for being a complete prick and magburning all the way up the approach to the Crown (sorry Genudine!) and once for being utterly unable to resist the best FF grenade toss in my lifetime. I completely deserved both of them. I've never even been close otherwise. What the fuck are you guys doing?

Can't speak for the others, but I've never been weapon locked. That is not the source of my irritation with FF.

[maradine]

I am 100% agreed that the instrumentation surrounding grief needs to be better, including an actual timer and reasonable granularity on levels. Thread title doesn't really imply that's the thrust of OP's argument, however.

[camycamera]

FF stops and solves a SHIT TONNE of problems, such as spamming etc, but yes, there should be a timer for the weapons lock, but again, you've just gotta be more aware. but i do agree that there should be character model collisions, but i believe that SOE didn't put in character model collisions because it will fuck up the physics, for example when you spawn in spawn tubes, and lots of other guys spawn in the same tube as you, there might be some problems...

[The Messenger]

FF stops and solves a SHIT TONNE of problems, such as spamming etc, but yes, there should be a timer for the weapons lock, but again, you've just gotta be more aware. but i do agree that there should be character model collisions, but i believe that SOE didn't put in character model collisions because it will fuck up the physics, for example when you spawn in spawn tubes, and lots of other guys spawn in the same tube as you, there might be some problems...

Not to mention imagine how hard base capping would be with all the zergs standing in doorways to shoot, they'd block everyone trying to move through the doors.

[ringring]

Friendly fire must stay. the examples you give a mostly about collisions with vehicles .... and I agree as most people would I think, that this needs adjustment.

[Figment]

I've only been weaponslocked in PS twice in my entire gaming history: for deliberately TKing hackers over and over as they spawned trying to prevent them from teleporting out of the tubes into the gens of other empires.

That said, I TK'ed far, FAR FAR more friendlies in PS2 by accident than in PS1 and that has everything to do with collissionmodels of vehicles, poor situational awareness due to lack of proper third person (too zoomed in, too low angle) and often are forced by the auto-drive when players don't look where they're going (and the game, unlike in PS1, blames the player spawning a vehicle - in PS1 you simply died as the vpad opened and it counted as a suicide). Maybe they should place signs that say "don't cross here". :p


People that get grieflocked don't know how to aim and are too busy with themselves rather than take the allies around them into account.

[Miffy]

They tried collision in late stage beta - it really didnt work.

In real life 2 friendly people can can easily pass each other in the space needed for one person. And we dont even have to think about doing it - its natural.

But in game its like a log jam.

That's why you have enemy collision and not friendly...

[IndiQa]

FF makes the game. It requires you to think.

God help the MORONS in the game if they were required to think!

Think how quiet the battlefield would be if they weren't in the game.

It would be nice to see if you are crouched, launching rounds downrange at an enemy and some dip runs through your fire stream and dies. HE loses a cert
and you have no action against you. Other than you get to laugh at him.

Might make them think at least once per round?

IndiQa

[Sledgecrushr]

We definitely need a better away at seeing how much ff we have accrued and a timer to show how long before your ff levels go down. Ff is a big part of this game and should be shown some love by the devs.

[Hamma]

Friendly fire does not ruin this game.

[Juryrig]

Friendly fire does not ruin this game.

You, Sir, have a gift for brevity.

[Sunrock]

If this game did not have friendly fire we would see this turn into a grenade spaming nightmare... Also it would be too easy mode and boring.

[DDSHADE]

FFs should exist, but be nerfed. As far as infantry weapons go, I think it could stay right where it is. Except for grenades. 50% damage reduction for friendly grenade fire, as well as 60% reduced damage from friendly vehicle collisions is the least that should be done.

Having friendly mossies fly into yours because they don't know how the hell to fly is really getting old fast. If you get TK'd in a vehicle you should at least have NO TIMER OR RESOURCE COST on your next one. I've seen tanks take out friendly lightnings and take no damage. All sorts of really stupid things happen when noobs get aircraft or vehicles without training... Please don't take it out on the players who know what they're doing.

The sides of tanks should also not kill people, especially friendlies... ever!

[Sunrock]

FFs should exist, but be nerfed. As far as infantry weapons go, I think it could stay right where it is. Except for grenades. 50% damage reduction for friendly grenade fire, as well as 60% reduced damage from friendly vehicle collisions is the least that should be done.

Having friendly mossies fly into yours because they don't know how the hell to fly is really getting old fast. If you get TK'd in a vehicle you should at least have NO TIMER OR RESOURCE COST on your next one. I've seen tanks take out friendly lightnings and take no damage. All sorts of really stupid things happen when noobs get aircraft or vehicles without training... Please don't take it out on the players who know what they're doing.

The sides of tanks should also not kill people, especially friendlies... ever!

If you fly into a friendly air craft at the warp gate you should get 60 days ban IMO. Only reason that happens is because some one did not care about the players he play with.

But no the penalties for friendly fire is fine as it is. I have run over plenty of friendlies in my prowler by mistake because I could not see them without getting into any trouble.

The penalties are there to teach the player to teach the players to behave. If they where nerfed in any we might as well remove friendly fire all to gather as the penalty for doing it would not discourage anyone from doing it.

If you ask me they might need a slight buff... If you kill more then 2 friendlies with in 5 min you should get all your weapons locked for 15 min...

[Moodel]

We need it. It's not about spam increasing significantly, to put it simply its about forcing people (because most are too silly to do it themselves) to have awareness of the general A.O., and where their friendlies are. Without Friendly Fire, you don't care where you threw a grenade, so long as its toward an enemy. With Friendly Fire, you don't throw the grenade, you get into a BETTER POSITION before you do so, which not only helps you throw the grenade it helps the whole battle as you now have a flanking position.

Spot on.

A few more of you need to read this before posting but I do agree with the whole vehicle pad thing.

[Xaine]

Friendly fire makes this game.

It's way better with it on.

[The Messenger]

If you get TK'd in a vehicle you should at least have NO TIMER OR RESOURCE COST on your next one.

People would abuse this by deliberately flying into friendly ships when they are on the verge of being shot down. Pilots would just kamikzae players they don't know because most don't care about strangers. Then they could immediately respawn their own ESF. I foresee a lot of gals and libs being a big target since they'd be easy to hit but won't go if at full health. Imagine the frustration of gal pilots if they were constantly dodging friendly ESF's just cuz the crappy fighter pilots wanted to respawn their n00b jet immediately.

I hate being flow into myself but odds are the n00b pilot doesn't have many certs in their ESF. So train yours down to spawn it faster and odds are the idiot that hit you is still waiting to spawn their's.

[Canaris]

I've never been weapons locked in PS1 or 2 because at the very start someone gave me some advise that I'll remember and use to the day I die, he simply said

"control your shit, fool!"

no poet ever came up with better. :)

[psychobilly]

Love friendly fire! Skill is good. So tired of clueless tank drivers bitching about gun locks when they can't read the gd minimap or learn to drive in 3rd person.

Don't change a thing about FF, SOE.

[Infernalis]

I've never been weapon locked even once and I drive in 3rd person in tank, I'm also almost never crushed or crush allies in tanks but it doesn't prevent me to see that tank collisions doesn't bring anything good, you just die way too easily by just touching a tank going at a mere 10km/h.

As for the FF from grenades and others explosions it's ok, at least in tight areas there's always some medics or a spawn near, but I wouldn't say no to a reduction in damage from friendly explosions.

[Xaine]

I've never been weapon locked either.

People who bitch about friendly fire are just bad. I'm sorry to say it.

[Hmr85]

Friendly fire needs to stay on. You just need to work on having better situational awareness. I have been playing since Tech Test. I have only been weapon locked 1 time. That was due to me griefing the crap out of a TK'er who was spawn camping the tubes near a major battle.

[VaderShake]

First off, I love friendly fire ups the intensity of a game allot.

When PS2 was first release the about half of the dozen guys I play with were complaining about friendly fire and how it needed to go.....fast forward a couple weeks and now they all have no problem with it and have adjusted and become accustom to it.

Also as far as the vehicle spawns go everyone has learned look both ways before you cross the street and stay away from the spawn areas. There are other ways to go.

Actually now that I think about it the friendly fire instances have given us all some the biggest laughs yet...

[Miffy]

Logged in, TK'd Twice in a row, Logged out.

I can't be bothered today with this.


It adds nothing to the game, I don't know why people want it. I remember when TF2 had FF as standard and people bitched and moaned and then Valve turned it off, made the game so much better.

You just don't need FF in team based games, it isn't like bullets go through models, you cannot all line up single file and shoot one behind the other.


Like great thanx for that lose my resources and I don't get them back for being TK'd..

Have to now wait 10 mins for a new Mosq to play the game how I wanted.

[Rbstr]

Deal with it. It's an important part of the game.

I'll admit that on vehicles it's frustrating. But It happens on both sides, idiots just run across roads with no regard to what's near them just like tanks crash through infantry areas.

They should make it a little harder for vehicle collisions to kill each other especially. Get a couple ESFs within 5ft and they both explode. Infantry is fine.

[Papagiorgio]

FF is helpful overall to motivate good tactics and decrease spam. See any Metro map on BF3 with FF turned off for an example of what PS2 would look like with no FF.

I did have a problem of a TR logging on his NC alt to C-4 a key NC Sunderer at a tech plant defense last night. As soon as he C-4'd the sunderer, the defense crumbled and the TR moved in unopposed. Maybe SOE can make friendly vehicles immune or highly resistant to friendly C4 and AT mines, to prevent griefing in this way.

[VaderShake]

If there was no friendly fire I could see everyone getting in a wedge and rushing head long into every building guns blazing firing through everyones back while Engineers rack up the EXP dropping ammo. Tanks blasting into doorways around their own troops. Aircraft lobbing shells/bullets into a crowed of their own team killing the enemy while their team skips along unharmed......NO THANKS....completely DUMBS DOWN THE GAME PLAY for more casuals and will create a spam fest of grenades and everything else...NO THANKS! Go play Metro on BF3 if you want that.

[Miffy]

They do all that now............

You cannot put FF in to fix a poorly designed game.

Lots of well designed games don't have it for a reason, because FF IS NOT FUN!

[RSphil]

FF is needed for this. the only problem is people not paying attention or just blasting away with no regard to friendlies. i dont mind it at all. if i kill someone and it was my fault i say sorry. if it was their fault for being an idiot i carry on as if nothing happend. fights would be massive cluster fucks if ff was not on. tactics and skill would be none existent as rushing through a door guns blazing would take over a base in no time.

with ff on you have to plan, fire and maneuver, communicate. this is what makes ps2 the great game it is. team work is needed and ff makes that happen. well most of the time lol

[maradine]

Lots of well designed games don't have it for a reason, because FF IS NOT FUN!

Perhaps you should play one of them. Those of us who think FF is fun and varying degrees of necessary can play this one. Everyone gets what they want!

[Miffy]

Logged in, spawned a Mosq and the first thing someone does is TK's me in a lib, just one shotted :\

I've had enough, it isn't fun to have FF in a game like this.

Now I'm sitting AFK for 10 mins until the timer runs out

[Miffy]

lmao as soon as I posted that I spawned at an amp station we're taking over, killed a Vanu and then got tk'd by one of my team who obviously meant to do it cause he kept shooting at me for ages....

uninstalled cannot be bothered.

[ShadetheDruid]

Sometimes I wonder if either i'm magical, or I just picked really well when choosing a server, because I don't experience half the stuff people are always complaining about (constant TKs, constant tank spam etc).

[Juryrig]

Sometimes I wonder if either i'm magical, or I just picked really well when choosing a server, because I don't experience half the stuff people are always complaining about (constant TKs, constant tank spam etc).

This. I see it occasionally, but not the 100% of the time, game-breaking experience that others report.

With regard to vehicles - esp aircraft - I've caused friendly fire incidents simply by being a n00b and crap at flying. Learning to land has seen me drop ESFs off of the landing pads onto troops/vehicles below. After the first time, I went looking for quieter places to practice.

I've also had Lib try to come down on a landing pad I've just landed on, and get bounced sideways off'f it.

I've also hit 'e' just after takeoff (I was aiming for 'd') and dropped out of the plane, leaving it to crash on other people whilst I observe helplessly from the landing pad.

So, yeah, sorry - but issues like that will go away as us newbies get used to things.

With regard to being hit by tank-spam at the vehicle pads.....how hard is it to wait a minute or so for the rush to clear? Wait till there's clear room to drive away from the pad before you spawn, so you know you won't get someone spawning right behind you when you've no room to move?

Look both ways before crossing the roads? If there's a tank column zerging all over the place, run along high ground/a ridge/keep yourself out from under the tracks?

I did swear when someone hit me with a Flash yesterday, despite me being stood on top of an outcrop and there being loads of opportunity to miss me...but 5 seconds later I've respawned so it's not a great loss.

As to friendly fire from weapons - Planetside 2 is meant to give the feeling of being in a Global warzone. The constant possibility of shooting your buddy in the back/being shot in the back in the confusion of battle is (for me) an inherent part of that.

For me, it doesn't detract from the enjoyment, it just increases the feeling of immersion. I absolutely wouldn't want to see it removed or reduced in any way.

[Sturmhardt]

Logged in, spawned a Mosq and the first thing someone does is TK's me in a lib, just one shotted :\

I've had enough, it isn't fun to have FF in a game like this.

Now I'm sitting AFK for 10 mins until the timer runs out

Thank God, one rocketeer less :P

[Oroshi]

FF has to stay, just think about the mess Tech Plant fights would become, defenders would just sit up on the Shield Generator Balcony and spam missiles at the point. this would apply for a lot of the map.

Things you can do to avoid FF


Unless your in close quarters don't spay and pray, use burst fire, so if some one does run out in front of you like a frighten deer, you won't kill them.

If lots of people are trying to kill the same target, fire at something else, who gave you right of way.

Don't spam Grenades when friendlies are about, you can not always control where it will go.

If you have to drive near friendly infantry, switch to 3rd person and slow down, you don't do 120 though a school cross in RL.

If some one is in a close quarter fight and you can't make the shot, don't do it, either let them kill them, or if the hostile wins, kill them afterwards.

When spawning ESF after burn straight out as soon as you get control, if the airspace is far to busy, how about taking a flash to another tower, and getting one there, after all it won't take long to get back again in an ESF.

Things you can do not to be the victim


Spread out, don't stand on top of each other. Too many tanks, try and flank the other side. Too much air go some where else. Too many infantry, look for another attack route.

Don't charge back into your own lines, some one will mistake you for a hostile

Don't stand in doorways, move to one side, use crouch so some one can shoot over you.

If your fighting at the point, beware of grenades, some nub will through one in even if you have killed all the hostiles, some people have slow reactions.

As said before look both ways when crossing a road

Don't stay in high traffic locations, like just out side a vehicle spawn, get your X and move on


Don't fight with the zerg, its is where all the nubs are, most of my FF incidents are around the zerg. More fun to be had if people spread out, less lag, better fights and more XP.

If some one TK's on purpose return the favor, my Outfit will hunt down TK's to make sure they decided to spawn else where.

Some times you need to TK, had it last night defending a Tech Plant, some one had set their Sunderer up in a bad place, we asked for it to be moved to a better location, even told them where to place it, they ignored it, so we tank mined it. It was that or lose the tech plant, I would rather see them get the XP, and still get a good fight.

So yes FF needs to stay it is part of the game, so you need to adapt to it, yes it needs a little tweaking. The only area I can see is when a generator blows, you should not get a TK, for the idiot who stood next to it. Everywhere else you had some degree of control over it, even when spawning a vehicle, you can check to see if the pad and run off are free.

I would like to see it toughed up, you shoot a friendly and stop with out killing then, you get your normal warning, you then continue to shoot at them, then you get a straight lock. After all the game warns you that your shooting a friendly.

Personally I've been Weapon locked once, hunting down a Team Killer, in Beta.

[Hamma]

Perhaps you should play one of them. Those of us who think FF is fun and varying degrees of necessary can play this one. Everyone gets what they want!

This.

Just think of the STUPID amount of spam if people didn't have to think about team damage. It would be pointless and not fun at all. Go play a game w/o FF if you don't like it.