Is this the start of SOE ruining Planetside 2?

[Miffy]

@DisrespectingQT next week we have some badass anti vehicle stuff coming.
by John Smedley about 34 minutes ago

To me vehicles are weak enough, AV is strong enough and as more and more people are getting unlocks it is becoming more and more powerful. I mean a tank from behind takes like 2 or 3 rockets and from the front it is only around 5 or 6. When you have so many people fighting your tank goes down so fast, in seconds and you cannot turn around and run away because you get blown up even faster.

I can see one problem only with tanks and that is the standard gun is too powerful. It kills any infantry in one shot and does so much damage to all other vehicle types. You give that to a driver and you can solo a tank where the main gunner should be on the passenger seat. We have Lightnings that are sitting there doing nothing because they should have been the solo tank but are not.

I cannot see any argument for a buff in AV, otherwise it ends up like BF3 where vehicles are way too weak and they ain't fun to use.


Again people moaning about AA, as more and more people unlock I'm noticing it becoming ever so present in the game. Playing last night I could not fly over a base without nearly being killed, luckily I have speed cert unlocks for it but 50/50 of me being killed. I have to contend with everyone on the ground and other pilots and it's so much harder than being in a ground vehicle. I'm constantly being shot at and I do not fight Aircraft OP at all.

There are only two problems I see.

1. The Lib gun has no effects, it can shoot your tank and it looks and sounds like small arms fire. I was sitting there in a Prowler and 3 shots and I was dead in what seemed like someone with a pistol was shooting me. It needs explosive effects so we can tell what it is.

2. Rocket Pods need to be split up like all other vehicle damage types. Right now they do damage to everything, if you split the damage up between AI and AV so you have to choose then they become balanced. They don't need a nerf, they just need changing to match other weapons in the game and how you choose what damage type to do.


I really hope they just make these two changes and not do some massive vehicle nerf, tbh I thought they were weak as it is compared to Planetside, I don't want it to turn out into Battlefield where they die in seconds.

[RykerStruvian]

The Skyguard is a joke considering it costs 1000 certs to use and requires at least four collaberating skyguards to destroy a single ESF. An ESF can destroy a skyguard with one salvo. It doesn't matter how you put it, the Skyguard needs to be tweaked, buffed, whatever. Something needs to be done. Something that costs 1000 points to cert into and happens to be useless at its given role, considering the Skyguard cannot efficiently kill infantry, ground vehicles, or specifically air is extremely underpowered.

I mean, the traveling time for the Skyguard's AA rounds is long, the rounds do not have any sort of proximity detonation, and even when you're unloading at an ESF at point-blank range an entire 50 round drum isnt enough to destroy an ESF.

[james]

Air is currently OP, it should not take like 7 rockets to take down a lib, and that a single rocket strafe from a esf can take down a mbt is broken .

Tanks are ok, as they aren't to hard to take down. I reccomend increasing the lock on range of the hawk and your balance should be fine.

[Whiteagle]

Dude, that's a pretty vague tweeterification...

How do you know it isn't a buff to the NUMBER of anti-tank mines you can carry, the Anti-Vehicle MANA Turret, or even deployable barricades?

[Beerbeer]

I would wait to see exactly what he means before getting up in arms.

Vehicles are strong. I don't think any can deny this.

Personally, I would spend more time redesigning bases. Getting door spammed sucks, but we're all so use to it, and probably do it ourselves (I do), that no one gives this much thought anymore. Because everyone knows that there are two absolutes in this game: getting door spammed, or door spamming.

But to me, it's a lame part of this game (and vehicles in general).

[Maidere]

MBTs are more then powerful right now. 5-6 rockets in the face is quite a lot if you'll ask me.

[Sledgecrushr]

As far as balance goes I think the vehicles generally are where they need to be. The one thing that bothers me is the skyguard. This turret is very underpowered against aircraft and needs a buff on its damage.

[DirtyBird]

He also mentioned other new weapons.

https://twitter.com/j_smedley/status/276317829484122112

tomorrow Thursday we have new weapons. New sniper and carbines. Next week anti vehicle

[ShadetheDruid]

All the problems people have with vehicles aren't problems with vehicles, but problems with the underlying systems (like the resource system). Any balance changes to do with vehicles and anti-vehicle weapons is going to screw up more things than it fixes, especially for people who it doesn't apply to (ie. giving people uber anti-tank stuff to counter tank zergs/spawn camping screws people who actively don't take part in tank zergs or spawn camping).

On the subject of the tweet though, I hope it's AV MANA turrets. Also I just went and looked through the tweets and he said "anti vehicle" includes more AA too, so who knows. Maybe AA MANA turrets too? Placeable anti-vehicle barricades would be pretty cool too, and would definitely come under "anti vehicle" stuff.

Have to wait a week and see what pops out.

[VaderShake]

Ok...someone help me out here, SOE has stated that this game will be in develpment/refinment for years to come...so..why is everyone hangining on every little detail and having extreme reactions when reality is the game probably won't hit it's stride for another year or 2???

If you don't like it don't play, if you do like it play it and get comforatable with the idea that this game will be an on going project that you must give some time. The meta game improvements and everything else are coming....

Consider this game similar to a F2P mod and waiting for new content...things break things get fixed it's the way it is....

[Maidere]

Oh look new weapons that have to balance the game 7 bucks each. uh oh.

[Simboubou]

Ok...someone help me out here, SOE has stated that this game will be in develpment/refinment for years to come...so..why is everyone hangining on every little detail and having extreme reactions when reality is the game probably won't hit it's stride for another year or 2???

You will always find people to complain about anything on any game. I spend time on the Starcraft II forums and on League of Legend Forums. Judging from the messages I read there, those games are completely broken, unbalanced, dumb, skill-less, etc... And yet, they are played by millions of players.

[Hamma]

Not looking forward to even more AA. Smed Tweeted at me that it's balanced and he is a flyer.. we will see.

[Crator]

Bad title is bad title. No, the sky isn't falling. SOE has, a what, 3 year plan? Things will change over time to make the game better. How's about we not go around speculating over every little thing? Can't we just wait to see what the changes do then provide feedback?

[Whiteagle]

Not looking forward to even more AA. Smed Tweeted at me that it's balanced and he is a flyer.. we will see.
⌐_⌐...

You're not serious, are you?

Do I have to get the comic out?

[derito]

I just hope the addition of new weapons doesn't mean they will leave currently useless options (hello skyguard) at the very bottom of their backlog.

[Ghoest9]

If its new AA direct specifically at fighters then ya its great.(one way or another we need less fighters farming ground troops.)

But Libs and Galaxaies already die fast enough - mainly thanks to all the fighters.

[Nadrik]

I don't think we need more AA, I think they just need to adjust the existing stuff. HA AA barely tickles and is easily dodged/out-run, and the Skyguard is flat out awful. Bursters and A2A are the only 2 weapons that are effective against air in any way.

They simply need to boost the Skyguard a bit, and let HA players cert into their launchers to improve them.

[kdenver]

OMG don't go upsetting the fly boys I can hear the whining across Auraxis already :)

[Whiteagle]

If its new AA direct specifically at fighters then ya its great.(one way or another we need less fighters farming ground troops.)

But Libs and Galaxaies already die fast enough - mainly thanks to all the fighters.
Yeah, I figure if AA gets a buff, Libs and especially Gals can get one as well.

It shouldn't require three AA Phalanxes just to ***** an ESF...

[Bags]

Yeah, I figure if AA gets a buff, Libs and especially Gals can get one as well.

It shouldn't require three AA Phalanxes just to ***** an ESF...

Hamma flies a galaxy, not an ESF if I remember correctly.

[Fyrn]

My average flight lasts for around 15 seconds. I take off, I see a tank on the minimap, I fire rockets at it and then I die. With both Lib and Mosquito.

Granted, I'm probably not the best pilot and flying alone will make me the focus of anything AA on the ground quick.. but, really, this game sure as hell does not need more AA.

The Skyguard seems worthless indeed though and should be buffed/changed a little.

[Sturmhardt]

I hope it's not some shitty OP weapon, but the fear is justified. Let's talk about it this in a week and see what's behind it.

[Wibin]

I think that some of the Issues regarding aa or av are inherent in the damage vs weapon level.

That's what I notice anyways.
I find it hard enough to hit air, especially when they can swoop in and take me out with one salvo, but I can not even hit them unless I'm lucky, that is kinda annoying. part of the game, but annoying.
I tend to find rocket pod a bit OP. Just my experience.
Magriders are not supposed to be heavy armored tanks, but when a sunderer with stock guns can shread it to pieces with ease but at the same time cannot touch any other tank, that gets annoying as well.

Same with AV weapons. I've been blown up in a magrider by 1 rocket.

Anytime I go up against other tanks, it seems very fair and balanced. Driving skill with armor vs armor and weapons.

If I get strafed with rocket pack, I get owned every time.
but to blame an excuse "oh i cannot fly in a base without getting shot down" ... WTf are you flying in solo for in a war zone? You don't effing do that!
Of course everyone is going to target you. Their grandma is going to be there shooting as well.

I have not got to try the skyguard out yet. But I believe you guys, its probably true.
Some weapons per the price paid are just garbage, but then some are OP.


The one thing you always gotta remember that with a game this large, there will always be balance issues and exploits. As long as each team has at least 1 good exploit and its not to overpowered, it evens itself out.

[MrBloodworth]

It shouldn't require three AA Phalanxes just to ***** an ESF...

How many should it take?

[Whiteagle]

How many should it take?
One should frighten him a bit, two should have him crapping is pants, and there shouldn't be anything left after three.

[RobUK]

How many should it take?

Three is right.

They're fixed and free. They're there as a deterrent. There's no cert or resource involvement and no timer beyond how long it takes to repair them.

I personally think that there are too many AA options in the game which is no small part of the AA vs Air problem. Too many options means that individually they need to be weak otherwise we will have air being obliterated all the time like we did at a couple of points in beta.

I don't like it because I would have preferred far fewer but more powerful AA tools to be in the game, allowing people to specialise in that field if they wanted to, just like in Planetside 1.

I'd hoped that if you wanted to be a career AA expert, then you could, with a deep cert tree and interesting and rewarding progression to aim for, just like you can be a career flier or a career tanker to a certain degree. It's one of the things that I miss from PS1.

I don't particularly like the class system in PS2 :(

[Beerbeer]

While I believe some things are more powerful than others, I think just nerfing the resources for vehicles, without actually touching them, would really help.

Incessant vehicle spam exacerbates any of these disparities, no matter how small they are.

[Whiteagle]

Three is right.
No, three isn't right...

I would prefer LESS AA Phalanxes if the LETHALITY of one were increased.

Right now they are a fucking joke; pilots are just ignoring them.

When you need three AA Turrets just for a pilot to realise he is being shot at, you have a problem.

[RobUK]

No, three isn't right...

I would prefer LESS AA Phalanxes if the LETHALITY of one were increased.

Right now they are a fucking joke; pilots are just ignoring them.

When you need three AA Turrets just for a pilot to realise he is being shot at, you have a problem.

But if you make a fixed turret with no resource cost, no timer, and no cert involvement very powerful, what do you do with the AA MAX and the SkyGuard? Those are things that costs resources, have a long timer, and cost a lot of certs so that the user can specialise. I can jump in and out of a turret whenever I fancy at zero cost.

I always viewed a solo turret as something that I would use to try to drive any flier off. I don't think a power increase would be right. A survivability buff maybe. But 3 people all shooting at and hitting the same target should have a reasonable chance of doing more that just driving a flier off if he or she decides to overextend himself or herself.

[derito]

IMHO turrets should be a proper base asset, something worth fighting for, like shields. Boosting their anti-air efficiency, giving them a big survivability boost (a resistance amplifier powered by a destroyable generator ?) and making them harder to bring back up might do the trick.

[GLaDOS]

Aw man, I hope Engineers get some of that AV stuff. I have a ton of certs just sitting around for something like that.

Also, can we keep the AA discussion in its own thread? Pretty please?

[Whiteagle]

But if you make a fixed turret with no resource cost, no timer, and no cert involvement very powerful, what do you do with the AA MAX and the SkyGuard? Those are things that costs resources, have a long timer, and cost a lot of certs so that the user can specialise. I can jump in and out of a turret whenever I fancy at zero cost.

I always viewed a solo turret as something that I would use to try to drive any flier off. I don't think a power increase would be right. A survivability buff maybe. But 3 people all shooting at and hitting the same target should have a reasonable chance of doing more that just driving a flier off if he or she decides to overextend himself or herself.
Well here's the thing...

Those other forms of AA?
Mobile.
They could be anywhere on the Map.

Phalanx AA Turrets on the other hand are static and are only available at certain places, which for GOOD pilots will be something to memorize or at least have an idea of.

...That said, Skyguard need a buff anyways...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Yvd5qXO-A6A

[Goldeh]

Well here's the thing...

Those other forms of AA?
Mobile.
They could be anywhere on the Map.

Phalanx AA Turrets on the other hand are static and are only available at certain places, which for GOOD pilots will be something to memorize or at least have an idea of.

...That said, Skyguard need a buff anyways...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Yvd5qXO-A6A

:ugh:

That vid made me sort of sick.

[maradine]

Oh, man. That's just sad.

[Technotaoist]

I took my first turn in a tower turret yesterday. There was a steady stream of aircraft to shoot at near, but not right on the tower.

I spent 5-10 minutes in there shooting a lot. Some of the pilots would run, some would finish their ground kills, then move on. I did not get one single kill with that machine gun turret.

Then a mosquito decided to pay attention to me. He hovered about fifty yards out and I started laying into him before he let the rockets fly. The turret and I were gonners in a flash.


So, while I had fun, and maybe was a bit of a deterrent, I was no real danger to any pilot with 1/8th a brain. I would not bother to use a turret again either if it is a machine gun type. Perhaps those are intended for AI, but in this tower I could not target the ground anywhere near it.

[Whiteagle]

Oh, man. That's just sad.
I know... :(

I took my first turn in a tower turret yesterday. There was a steady stream of aircraft to shoot at near, but not right on the tower.

I spent 5-10 minutes in there shooting a lot. Some of the pilots would run, some would finish their ground kills, then move on. I did not get one single kill with that machine gun turret.

Then a mosquito decided to pay attention to me. He hovered about fifty yards out and I started laying into him before he let the rockets fly. The turret and I were gonners in a flash.


So, while I had fun, and maybe was a bit of a deterrent, I was no real danger to any pilot with 1/8th a brain. I would not bother to use a turret again either if it is a machine gun type. Perhaps those are intended for AI, but in this tower I could not target the ground anywhere near it.
Wait... did this Turret have what looked to be Chain-guns on the side, or High-caliber Sniper Rifles?

...Because the Chain-gun one is suppose to be Anti-Infantry.

[JesNC]

@DisrespectingQT next week we have some badass anti vehicle stuff coming.
by John Smedley about 34 minutes ago

To me vehicles are weak enough, AV is strong enough and as more and more people are getting unlocks it is becoming more and more powerful. I mean a tank from behind takes like 2 or 3 rockets and from the front it is only around 5 or 6. When you have so many people fighting your tank goes down so fast, in seconds and you cannot turn around and run away because you get blown up even faster.

I can see one problem only with tanks and that is the standard gun is too powerful. It kills any infantry in one shot and does so much damage to all other vehicle types. You give that to a driver and you can solo a tank where the main gunner should be on the passenger seat. We have Lightnings that are sitting there doing nothing because they should have been the solo tank but are not.

I cannot see any argument for a buff in AV, otherwise it ends up like BF3 where vehicles are way too weak and they ain't fun to use.


Again people moaning about AA, as more and more people unlock I'm noticing it becoming ever so present in the game. Playing last night I could not fly over a base without nearly being killed, luckily I have speed cert unlocks for it but 50/50 of me being killed. I have to contend with everyone on the ground and other pilots and it's so much harder than being in a ground vehicle. I'm constantly being shot at and I do not fight Aircraft OP at all.

There are only two problems I see.

1. The Lib gun has no effects, it can shoot your tank and it looks and sounds like small arms fire. I was sitting there in a Prowler and 3 shots and I was dead in what seemed like someone with a pistol was shooting me. It needs explosive effects so we can tell what it is.

2. Rocket Pods need to be split up like all other vehicle damage types. Right now they do damage to everything, if you split the damage up between AI and AV so you have to choose then they become balanced. They don't need a nerf, they just need changing to match other weapons in the game and how you choose what damage type to do.


I really hope they just make these two changes and not do some massive vehicle nerf, tbh I thought they were weak as it is compared to Planetside, I don't want it to turn out into Battlefield where they die in seconds.

I hate to be "that guy", but if you're experiencing problems vs handheld AV or AA you're doing something wrong. There's more to vehicle gameplay than running up to the frontline, parking up/hovering and starting to spam high explosives.

Especially infantry AV is a joke unless you're firing on immobile targets or targets within 50m.

And you're seriously complaining that you can't fly over an enemy held base without being shot at? Like, wow...

[Whiteagle]

And you're seriously complaining that you can't fly over an enemy held base without being shot at? Like, wow...
Yeah, imagine if he was actually low enough for the Phalanx Cannons to get an angle on him...
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j65/Whiteagle/AAcomic.jpg

*BOOM!*

[Qwan]

I dont think that these new weapons will make or break the game. Its like I tell my outfit members who swear up and down that AV weapons are two strong as it is. They complain about how there tank was taken out in two seconds, well when you roll into an enemy base with troops still hiding in the buildings and running around your like this big xp target riding around. So dont be suprised when about 8 rockets come from every direction and take out your tank. I tell alot of the newbs who cry about it that they have to play smart. If your attacking a base stay back at a safe distance give the infantry time to do there job, and take out some of those heavy assault guys. I think guys with vehicles should play smarter, I see it alot of times when a enemy tank column comes rolling up in a base like there just bad ass, and they think just because they beat the infantry there that there gonna get the xp and kills WRONG. We usually see them coming, and when they get there were already in heavy assault waiting for them and they get desimated. Instead of whining about it try to play smarter.

[MrBloodworth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Yvd5qXO-A6A

This was taken inside the warp bubble, and also, as it does damage, before launch changes.

[Tachyr]

My main issue with the Skyguard is that there is no really effective way to cert into AA to really become more efficient.
Sure you can hold more ammo or reduce the reload time but that isn't solving TTK or ability to actually hit targets.


Certing into Zoom optics is pretty much useless as it doesn't really help you with how much to lead the target to actually get a hit.
Flak radius is non existent and pretty much requires a direct hit.
Projectile speed is like a turtle which just recently had hip surgery
Cone of fire is all over the place considering that you need to do full auto to get any hits on a fast ESF


I can honestly say that I have never felt as useless as dedicated AA, not even after the TR Burster Max nerf in PS1.

I am fine with keeping the default Skyguard as is if there is a way for me to spend certs into it to allow me to become an actual threat to all types of air, currently there is not. Heck I am even more effective as AA in my Max currently....

[Timealude]

If they are buffing flak doesnt that mean they are sorta buffing the skyguard? Just saying. :)

[basti]

Lets recap this thread, and the official forums.

AA:
50% say AA is useless
50% say AA is OP

Rocket pods:

50% say they need a buff
50% say they need a nerf

Vehicles:

50% say are to weak
50% there are 2 many of them and they are to strong




To me, that seems like stuff is balanced.

[Simokon]

This is just my personal experience but when I have gotten all of my g2a kills with the MBT cannon and nothing else I think something is wrong. :(

[Hamma]

To me, that seems like stuff is balanced.

woah woah, easy basti. Don't be bringing logic on here ;)

[Beerbeer]

It's more like 70/30 who think vehicles are balanced/not balanced. I'm guessing considering the preponderance of spam.

So, just guessing:
70% like
30% dislike

since we all take turns spamming and getting spammed.

[Sturmhardt]

Basti, thing is: your numbers are wrong, they are not 50% ;)

Nobody I know says rocket pods are balanced and most people tend to think that way on all forums. Including soe. I am very glad that they buff aa (skyguard) and nerf the pods, the game will get better through that.

[Sunrock]

Well SOE have never ever mange to balance anything in any of there game. All they do is buff and nerf and buff and nerf. They are totally incompetent to find a middle ground because they believe too mush in all the QQ's on the forums.

Here is the thumb rule: 90% of the posters that post on the forums does not play the game enough to know what they are talking about because they spend too mush time on the forums writing stupid posts instead of learning to play the game.

[basti]

Here is the thumb rule: 90% of the posters that post on the forums does not play the game enough to know what they are talking about because they spend too mush time on the forums writing stupid posts instead of learning to play the game.


Suprisingly correct.

In fact. Devs would do good if they stay FAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRR AWWWWWWAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY from official forums. Rather go to PSU. ;)

[typhaon]

I don't think balance is too far off... I'm adjusting what I said a few days ago, a bit.

A2G rockets are too powerful, especially vs. infantry.
Liberators need just a bit less toughness.
A small extension on the range of G2A missiles and AA MAX.


Then, I'm happy.

[Whiteagle]

Well I was able to pull my Skyguard last night and actually hit something, so if they have changed something there is improvement.

Have to test it more however, only got an assist when the Rocketscrub I hit nose-dived into a tree...

This is just my personal experience but when I have gotten all of my g2a kills with the MBT cannon and nothing else I think something is wrong. :(
Indeed, this is WHY bad AA is a problem.
I know the Devs want to make flying "fun", but there needs to be something to separate the wheat from the chaff, because if ESFs are suppose to be solo pwnmobiles there needs to be SOME difficulty in their use.

[VaderShake]

In my experience a balanced game can often be well.....boring..tanks should be hard to kill, aircraft should have some advantages over foot soldiers, ect. I think with the never ending never winning perpetual battles "balance" will really come with a players ability to plan,coordinate,think, and react rather than the weapon you happen to be holding or vehicle you happen to be in....if you struggle to grasp this you may feel the game is "unbalanced" when in reality you just need to try doing something different or take some orders from someone else.

We all have access to the same stuff for the most part after all....