Higby Update on Air vs Ground Balance

[Hamma]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/news-higby-update-on-air-vs-ground-balance-2917.htm

Hey all!

First of all, since I think this is my first official post since the game has been live, a quick introduction. My name is Matt Higby and I'm the Creative Director for PlanetSide 2, my job is to work with all of our game designers as well as the other team directors to help build the game. I'm also supposed to post on the forums and make funny movies on youtube.

I wanted to post today to talk about some changes to vehicle balance and especially air-to-ground gameplay. Air-to-ground interactions (and i'm talking about ground-to-air interactions with this too) are one of the most challenging balance touch points in the game. It's very easy with minor changes to make people on either end of this equation feel like they're getting hosed.

Goal for ground based anti-air:
We've talked before a bit about wanting ground to be an effective deterrent to air, and a very dangerous threat against pilots who are being risky (strafing, bombing low, hover spamming rockets, etc), but not necessarily be a hard counter to air. Ultimately friendly air power should be the best counter to enemy air power. I think that statement has been interpreted by some as us saying that the current balance is what we want, I want to be clear: that is not the case. Currently the air-to-ground balance is favoring air a bit too much, and aircraft have an imbalanced influence on the battlefield compared to ground.

In next week's update we're making some adjustments to the air-to-ground gameplay, some of these will affect ground vehicles and some even affect infantry vs infantry, but the main purpose is to bring air and ground into balance a bit more. None of these are enormous changes, but the cumulative effect should be closer to our goal of allowing ground to be an effective deterrent to air and a dangerous threat against pilots who are being risky.

Lock on Rocket Launchers (AV and AA):
- Range Increase
- Faster reload time (to compensate for lock on time)
- Now require lock on to fire

Flak:
- Minor damage increase
- Projectile speed increase

A30 Walker:
- Buffed Damage
- Faster Projectile

Rocket Pods:
- Decrease to the inner explosion radius: 3m to 1.5m. This is the center of the rocket explosion where the maximum damage occurs, so this will not affect direct hits. Effectively this makes the damage falloff at the center of the rocket pod explosion start closer to the center.

Flak Armor:
- Increase maximum explosion resistance for certed Flak armor from 25% to 50%. This makes Flak armor a more viable choice over Nanoweave for soldiers being attacked with explosives.

Decimator:
- New Heavy Assault common pool rocket launcher. High-damage anti-vehicle weapon, has a slow projectile speed and no lock on, but does massive damage to vehicles and other armored targets.

As I mentioned earlier, this is a very complex balance touch point, and we expect that balance changes will continue to occur to this area of the game until it feels great. We think these changes should help a lot to keep infantry and ground vehicles feeling competitive with their colleagues and enemies in the sky and will be a good first step in the journey of balance.

As always, we are eager to hear your feedback, questions and concerns.

[DirtyBird]

Let me guess, the Decimator is just 1000 certs or 700 SC.

[Chewy]

Lock on Rocket Launchers (AV and AA):
- Range Increase
- Faster reload time (to compensate for lock on time)
- Now require lock on to fire


This is going to make a lot HA players rather mad. If Im reading that right it is removing the ability to dumbfire AA and AV lock on rockets. I understand not having dumbifre for AV but not to have it for AA is going to really hurt AA based HA troops once the air is cleared or if armor rolls in.

Maybe the other adjustments will make this moot with other AA weapons being more able to do the job. Wont know till we play the patch.

[Methonius]

Not going to lie, flinching at the aspect that I won't be able to dumb fire anymore with my AA launcher, but I'll just have to see how good it is after the patch before I spout out how crappy it is.

[Hamma]

They are replacing dumb fire with decimators.

[maradine]

Having the Deci back will be really nice, but I'm curious how slow the projectile will have to be to keep the default launcher viable. Then again, I guess it's one-shot.

edit: Oooooooh, it's a replacement. I didn't get that out of the post.

[Sunrock]

I think the main problem here is how the game handle rendering of infantry. If the rendering of intrantry was fixed at X meter no matter how many players there was in the aria we would not have a porblem here...

But as it is now the game some times does not render players until they are in your face. So you can fly in for a G2A rocket pod strike and don't see the place as empty until you almost hit the ground then 15 burster MAXes just stands there waiting for you. And you explode in a ball of fire 1 sec after the game bothered to render infantry for you. This is ofcourse not a problem only for air but for every situation where there are more then 30+ players...

I give a **** ***** ***** ***** ****** ****** ******* ******** about players with crappy computers. Buy a new one! I want this game to be playable no matter how many that are in the aria. Have fixed rendering sliders!

[DirtyBird]

They are replacing dumb fire with decimators.
Exactly, I already spent $7 on a weapon that functioned a particular way, it hasnt even been a month and its being changed.

To be fair I think they should offer refunds.

[maradine]

How did you spend $7 on a weapon in the default HA kit?

[Graywolves]

What I really want is the Stryker. Even if it did only like 10% damage to something I'd love it.

[DirtyBird]

How did you spend $7 on a weapon in the default HA kit?

Which one of us is reading it wrong?

Lock on Rocket Launchers (AV and AA):
- Range Increase
- Faster reload time (to compensate for lock on time)
- Now require lock on to fire

The Crow is the Rocket Launcher he is referring to isn't it?

[psychobilly]

How did you spend $7 on a weapon in the default HA kit?

Talking about the ground-to-air rocket which we paid for. It is getting nerfed so it can no longer dumb fire on ground targets. If it was a problem they should have lowered the AV damage, but it won't be the same weapon we paid for.

Should allow a station cash refund, at a minimum.

[maradine]

Talking about the ground-to-air rocket which we paid for. It is getting nerfed so it can no longer dumb fire on ground targets. If it was a problem they should have lowered the AV damage, but it won't be the same weapon we paid for.

Should allow a station cash refund, at a minimum.


That's not the problem they were trying to solve for. You can still dumb fire into whatever you like - you just need to be within a meter and a half of what you were shooting at to do full damage. I thought everyone in the air was into "skill weapons"?

I don't think the attitude that paying for something exempts it from a balance pass is particularly grounded in reality.

The Crow is the Rocket Launcher he is referring to isn't it?

None of the above, it would seem!

[Crator]

Not an AA user yet so I must comment on the AV:

Lock on Rocket Launchers (AV and AA):
- Range Increase: Nice!
- Faster reload time (to compensate for lock on time): I always found the reload time slow. This is good!
- Now require lock on to fire: Ok, can live with since you gave us Decimator!

Would like to know more about Decimator. How many shots? Guess will have to wait and see when they put it in.

Flak armor increase is a good change to make it more viable for certain players over Nanoweave too.

[Beerbeer]

Yeah, dumb-fire change kind of sucks, as it was crutch if you were stuck out in the open and that's all you had.

This will make the decision you make in terms of what weapon you equip really important if you foot zerg. Eh, doesn't matter as I'll probably always have the decimator now, lol.

[Goldeh]

Talking about the ground-to-air rocket which we paid for. It is getting nerfed so it can no longer dumb fire on ground targets. If it was a problem they should have lowered the AV damage, but it won't be the same weapon we paid for.

Should allow a station cash refund, at a minimum.

EULA says that you're leasing the weapons you buy. You don't "own" the gun you buy, you permanently rent it. This gives SOE the right to do whatever they want with the guns you buy.

[Bags]

Why do people act like they deserve a refund? AA / AG rockets were complete upgrades over the default, you should have seen the nerf coming.

Are people going to whine for refunds every time SOE balances something? :confused:

[AThreatToYou]

Are people going to whine for refunds every time SOE balances something? :confused:

Yes.

[Dragonskin]

EULA says that you're leasing the weapons you buy. You don't "own" the gun you buy, you permanently rent it. This gives SOE the right to do whatever they want with the guns you buy.

This is actually how iTunes works if you need another real world reference.

[Deathwalker]

I have a much better idea...

Scap ALL current rocket launchers and bring back the Lancer, Striker, and Phoenix, in all their glory. :D

Hate to be a whiner, but i hate the current launchers even more :(
The past ones had so much character, and uniqueness. The new ones are so unbelievably generic and all just reskins of eachother.

On a positive(?) note, at least Deci is returning?
Although, it was more of a specialty weapon and not much of a dedicated AV launcher.

[DirtyBird]

Regardless of the weapon in question, balance is one thing, changing how a weapon originally functioned is another...imo.

And I am sure they are more than capable of playing the EULA card, if it ever gets that far.
As it is, EULA or not, they've asked for feedback, questions and concerns.
I've obliged. :cool:

[Sturmhardt]

The dumb fire change is okay imho because an aa launcher is just not supposed to be an av launcher as well. You need to specialise. They should offer refunds though because these weapons will be much less awesome and some people may not want to use it anymore.

[Chewy]

The dumb fire change is okay imho because an aa launcher is just not supposed to be an av launcher as well. You need to specialise. They should offer refunds though because these weapons will be much less awesome and some people may not want to use it anymore.

I hate to be "that guy" but ESF don't have to specialize (unless I didn't read all of the patch notes).

No matter what rocket pod they choose an ESF will always have the front gun. So if an ESF gets A2G rockets they should be weak to other aircraft for choosing to cert into attacking ground, if what you said is true. But without having to give up the front gun for rockets that will never be the case as that gun is damn good for AA and dog fights.

Everything but ESFs have to specialize into something. Be that a jack of all or for a certain type of weapon, everything has to choose one weapon per man. I think that making an ESF give up something for rockets would fix most of the rage over them. AA would still need a looking at but if an ESF had to pick just one weapon like the rest of the vehicles then a lot of bitching wouldn't be happening in my opinion.

[TheSaltySeagull]

Lock on Rocket Launchers (AV and AA):
- Range Increase
- Faster reload time (to compensate for lock on time)
- Now require lock on to fire


This is going to make a lot HA players rather mad. If Im reading that right it is removing the ability to dumbfire AA and AV lock on rockets. I understand not having dumbifre for AV but not to have it for AA is going to really hurt AA based HA troops once the air is cleared or if armor rolls in.

Maybe the other adjustments will make this moot with other AA weapons being more able to do the job. Wont know till we play the patch.

You will be in the same boat as the other ground based AA platforms the dual burster max and skyguard. They are worthless vs anything that isnt aircraft and in a situation like you describe would have to change equipment. HA will have to do the same thing. You at least have your LMG so you can engage infantry which is more than can be said for the MAX and SG. So I personally don't see this as much of an issue.

[Mox]

Not a word about boosting the skyguard. The skyguard is useless atm it really needs a buff. HA AA on the other side is allready strong enough.

[Sturmhardt]

Not a word about boosting the skyguard. The skyguard is useless atm it really needs a buff. HA AA on the other side is allready strong enough.

True, the skyguard needs a buff... It's like it's not even in the game atm.

[Wahooo]

They said Flak is getting increased projectile speed and minor damage buff.

[KaskaMatej]

Well, everyone that thinks AA vs Air is OK, why are they then buffing AA and nerfing Rocket pods?

I'd really like to see their attempts of counter-argument.

[Stanis]

My predictions:

Use of lock on AA will drop.
Without the dumpfire option it will be mostly useless.
It is already less useful with the increase in flares certed by dedicated pilots.

The decimator will be a direct fire equivalent of the basic dumpfire AV
Will only hit stationary barn doors.

It would be nice if the lock on only AV had a reduced lock on time.
Or certs to reduce it.
Hard enough firing at the tank zerg without being stationary for 3 seconds.

[Wahooo]

Love how they announce an AA buff and then put the second burster arm on sale... way to actually gather proper info on the subject. Buff "flak" when the SG and Turrets needed buffed not the burster and then make it easier to get more bursters out in the field.
*sigh*

[ketarakh]

I want good ol' Lancer to come back as default common pool AA/AV weapon for every faction. Or faction specific looks, but same concept. Superfast projectiles, clip size of 5 shots and time to warm up before every shot, and low dmg per shot to compensate.
Current dumbfire default rocket launcher is worthless as AA. You can hit no aircraft with it.
As for looks it may be good ol' Lancer for vanu, AV railgun for NC and some sort of AV rifle for TR, like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_rifle

[JesNC]

I'd rather have the Phoenix back for NC over a Lancer port, really. Nothing beats catching a totally oblivious tank/liberator by a squad's worth of camera guided rockets.

That, and:
https://twitter.com/PurrfectStorm/status/275752836518780928

OT: I think they're overbuffing Flak armor with this patch, at least for regular infantry. It already is crazy good for upping your survival rate vs tank shells and other explosives, a 50% reduction in damage might make HA nearly invulnerable.

[ketarakh]

I'd rather have the Phoenix back for NC over a Lancer port, really. Nothing beats catching a totally oblivious tank/liberator by a squad's worth of camera guided rockets.

Then there will be no reason to buy smedweapons. So i dont think this will ever happens.

[Emperor Newt]

OT: I think they're overbuffing Flak armor with this patch, at least for regular infantry. It already is crazy good for upping your survival rate vs tank shells and other explosives, a 50% reduction in damage might make HA nearly invulnerable.
Maybe to regular tank shots as those are good against infantry and armor. Maybe it would force more tank drivers to have a mounted AI weapon (and a gunner) instead of no gunner and/or two AV weapons.
The thing I would be worried about would be if this nerfs the primary AI tank weapons. Granted, those are insanely good at the moment but at least they come the price of doing little to no damage to armor (for the Lightning at least).

[Suitepee]

50% resistance to explosives at max rank flak armor? Suddenly I feel like my certs in nanoweave are wasted somewhat.

I like the nerf to the splash damage radius of the rocket pods. :D

[Qwan]

I mean guys I look at it like this, changing the specs on Ground to air weapons will not stop the air from doing its job. I mean I think the air seems over powered because the guys who play air know how to select there targets. I mean lets face it no mosi is going to attack a column of tanks with sky guards and 20 mm guns on each tank. But they will rocket pod a defensless sundy sitting in the open or a single tank. Just by uping the damage of ground to air missles wont help. During the past weeks guys in my outfit have gotten the nemises rocket laucher, now when we see reavers and mossies all over the place we start putting them down faster, instead of hoping they add a one shot rocket to the weapon pool that will take down any bird (which is what most want) you just have to adapt. I will admit we usta get owned by air alot, but now when were running missions we have at least 3 to 5 heavys with anti air blowing the shit out of air targets.

[Figment]

They are replacing dumb fire with decimators.

He knows that, but it means you can't dumbfire anymore since it's unlikely you can change kit in the meantime.

It's like being able to fire a PS1 Striker with lock on only.

Considering lock on takes eons and reload takes eons, that's going to hurt AV capacity a lot.




I presume this is in part to stop dumbfiring at infantry, but depending on how fast the reload is, lock on is going to be very... situational. I hope the range increase comes with an increase in speed.

[Whiteagle]

Lock on Rocket Launchers (AV and AA):
- Range Increase
- Faster reload time (to compensate for lock on time)
- Now require lock on to fire


This is going to make a lot HA players rather mad. If Im reading that right it is removing the ability to dumbfire AA and AV lock on rockets. I understand not having dumbifre for AV but not to have it for AA is going to really hurt AA based HA troops once the air is cleared or if armor rolls in.

Maybe the other adjustments will make this moot with other AA weapons being more able to do the job. Wont know till we play the patch.
Yeah, I can understand the AA Launcher being a "deterrent" for air... if it could still engage ground targets with dumbfire at reduced damage...

This...
...This makes me wonder if Lock-on should just be ONE duel purpose Launcher that does less damage overall...

edit: Oooooooh, it's a replacement. I didn't get that out of the post.
Yeah, can we get a conformation on this?

I'd love to get a Straight Upgrade to my default for FREE!:D

[Rat]

I am afraid that the Deci is going to fire as slow as the early beta rocket launcher....remember when vehicles would just casually roll out out of the rockets path after you fired it?...forget about hitting a mag unless your copping a squat underneath it.
Just gotta wait and see tho.

[Miffy]

I can see Deci's making MAX units useless again!

MAX units are useless as it is though, slow, barely any armour, do barely any damage on all three weapon types...

They're just poor, I don't see any situation why you'd use one over HA, you can easily solo them as it is but these need higher damage Deci's will one hit them I bet.

[Miffy]

I also don't see how selling new weapons fixes any problems? I mean will that be the answer for everything? Put stuff on the store. Next they'll charge for protected spawn room privileges.

[MrBloodworth]

Fantastic changes.

Looking forward to trying them out.

[Rahabib]

Not a word about boosting the skyguard. The skyguard is useless atm it really needs a buff. HA AA on the other side is allready strong enough.

The addressed the walker buff.

Anyway, taking out dumb fire but increasing its effectiveness works for me. Everyone takes aa rockets because the work on both, now you have to choose.

[SpottyGekko]

Hmmm... I wonder if the Lib's A30 Walker version will also get this buff ? It may finally be worth using it...

Interesting changes and not too radical, except maybe for the flak armour buff. The next few days will be very interesting.

[Dragonskin]

I think the Hades will be more useless than before. Unless they make it work like a Javelin in BF3 where it arcs up into the sky before slamming into vehicles so it can clear objects.. then it's still going to lock-on and fire at the bottom of the target.. meaning any hill, rise in elevation makes the rocket useless. The only time the Hades outshined the dumbfire Nemesis was when you were on a cliff or ridge higher than your target.

So... since I doubt we can get refunds.. can I trade my slightly used Hades in for a new Artemis... SOE can keep the 700sc that was spent. I just want something useful instead.

As for my new loadout.. probably pick up the Decimator and learn to lead targets and switch to Nemesis if there is major air present.