The Issue With Weapons

[Palerion]

After thinking long and hard about the weapons and progression system of Planetside 2, I've found one outstanding flaw in the entire system.

The problem is, the weapons seem to just be a bunch of different stats. They're all the same thing with just a couple different little functions. Look at the LC2 Lynx and LC3 Jaguar for TR players. The way this weapon system works, I don't want to buy station cash to get new weapons because weapons tend to become obsolete. That is a huge problem. They aren't really unique.

In a nutshell, when I buy a weapon, I want it to become a valuable part of my arsenal that I will enjoy every so often, kind of like a toy for a kid. Instead, with Planetside 2's current system, it just fades away when the next great weapon with better stats comes out.

[Ghoest9]

So far they have not introduced any new weapon that obsoletes any existing weapon.

So while you may indeed have been thinking - you havent found anything.

Think harder maybe?

[Beerbeer]

They did this on purpose so people can't buy their way to victory. However, these weapons can enhance things if the boosted attribute fits your play style, like fast reload weapons for close quarters hit and run, or faster rate of fire, etc., each fits a different situation, so choose your style and buy accordingly.

[Palerion]

In response to Ghoest9, they have, actually. The LC3 Jaguar is like the LC2 Lynx with a bunch less recoil and slightly less ROF. And you're quite good at making arrogant posts. Instead of replying with sarcastic answers, perhaps you should consider gently "pointing me in the right direction". I appreciate your response BeerBeer. I feel that there simply isn't enough diversity to justify spending money on it though, and that is a serious problem. They can't keep releasing the same gun with a different stat and expect positive reception.

[Ghoest9]

The general consensus is that the new weapons introduced this week are lateral at best many people think they are worse than the existing options.

[Beerbeer]

They're all supposed to be lateral.

[Palerion]

Not the Jaguar, for sure, Ghoest. But aside from that they need to introduce new dynamics to the weapons. Everything is looking, feeling, and acting the same and it doesn't justify buying anything new. And I'm not exactly understanding the use of the word "lateral" in this context.

[Beerbeer]

Well, I agree the models suck and are bland. They definitely need to enhance this.

[Crator]

Compulsive buyers beware. All I'm sayin'.

[Palerion]

I also think they should stop making so many weapons that seem to overlap in their situational uses. It is irritating to have so many variants of one gun, like burst and S versions, and they really need to make it more streamlined so the choice of which weapon we want for what situation is more clear. I hate having to sift through the stats of two very similar weapons to figure out which one I want.

[AThreatToYou]

They need to make more fun and unique weapons.
Like the TR could get a quad-rocket launcher on their infantry. It has 4 shots per load and is anti-infantry, kills on headshot has tiny AOE. Just more unique weapons! Just using bland fire-bullets-or-plama-thingies will get old.
TR could get that, NC could get a bolter rifle, and VS could get like I dunno, a Razorjack.

No, fuck that, NC get the razorjack. By unique, I mean unique within PlanetSide 2. It's OK if it's a near-ripoff of a weapon from another game, like a flak cannon, bio-gel gun, or razorjack would be. but these weapons are more entertaining than just bland rifles.

[Palerion]

Exactly.

[cooonips]

think how lame cod/battlefield would be if they just had 10 or so variants of a m16 and no other guns.

[Rasui]

For me, it's not any potential obsolete effect. It's that they all feel like the same gun. It's just... bland and boring.

[Palerion]

That is the problem. And I watched a youtube video where a guy reviewed the serpent in comparison to the VX6-7, and he made a very good point that is very similar to this discussion of weapons becoming obsolete. He said he doesn't feel comfortable with the fact that he bought the VX6-7 because it had the fastest time to kill/fire rate, then the serpent came out with even higher fire rate and they expect him to pay them again. Watch this 8 minutes 20 seconds into the video: new carbines comparison / review: Razor GD-23, LC3 Jaguar, Serpent for Planetside 2 - YouTube

[james]

If your on the TR there is no reason to buy weapons, just use the Carv and Tac

[Palerion]

If your on the TR there is no reason to buy weapons, just use the Carv and Tac

Not necessarily true. The LC2 Lynx is much more suitable at close quarters, and allows for higher mobility while firing and more capabilities in terms of flying and shooting at the same time. I don't play heavy assault so I don't know much about the carv, but it is nice.

[Serpent]

Weapons are fine as they are. They need remakes of models, because there most certainly won't be a feel of "uniqueness" if they all look the same. All carbines look the same basically, shotguns, snipers, they're all with the same model. It makes me really frustrated. A big reason why I'm not playing nearly as much.

[Palerion]

Remakes of models is an obvious, and if they don't fix their carbon copy weapons, the game is going to have lots of trouble. Still though, weapons that act differently are also definitely necessary, and are too few and far between. Like, for instance, the Terran Heavy Assault Chaingun is an awesome idea. And it kind of nullifies all this stat analyzation of weapons because it fires uniquely. Its power can't exactly be measured because it takes time to even get the thing to fire, making it good for some situations and bad when someone gets the drop on you.

More weapon models are a definite; if they don't change the weapon models on all these carbon copy guns, the game may as well be screwed, simple as that. Aside from that, more dynamic weapons such as the chaingun would be nice.

[SturmovikDrakon]

Weapons are fine as they are. They need remakes of models, because there most certainly won't be a feel of "uniqueness" if they all look the same. All carbines look the same basically, shotguns, snipers, they're all with the same model. It makes me really frustrated. A big reason why I'm not playing nearly as much.

It saddens me to no end that shotguns use rifle models and I agree that it's the same reason why I'm not in a hurry to spend any money on weapons

Like, for instance, the Terran Heavy Assault Chaingun is an awesome idea.

It could have been the most unique looking weapon in the game and look what happened to it.

[Palerion]

It could have been the most unique looking weapon in the game and look what happened to it.

Not exactly sure what happened to it... I think it looks nice, as you would expect a chaingun to look. But even further saddening than the fact that shotguns look like rifles is that all the rifles (carbines at least) look almost exactly the same. You can't see the difference betwee one carbine or another, or one carbine and a shotgun even. Honestly I'm fine if they have a few different stats, but I'm going to make a comparison that nobody will like, and I can assure you I'm not the biggest fan of this game: Look at Battlefield 3.

Its weapons are all just a bunch of stats too, but they all seem to have a bit more definition to their characteristics. For the most part every weapon sounds different. Everything surely looks different. Everything also feels different. The weapons are dynamic.

Honestly I feel that Planetside 2 may be doing a bit better at this dynamic aspect than the models and sounds strictly because when I look at the LC2 Lynx, it has a special characteristic: faster aiming and movement speed. That is something that can define a weapon and make it special; a reason that I would like it as a part of my vast arsenal. Now, if they would just change the skins and sounds, and make sure that most weapons can have a little something special about them, everything would be crystal clear and the game would be much better off.

TL;DR: If the PS2 team would make sure that weapons have distinctly different models and sounds, and that each weapon was strictly set apart from the other in playstyle, the weapons system would be exceptional and the incentive and excitement for buying new weapons would be greater.

[Whiteagle]

I also think they should stop making so many weapons that seem to overlap in their situational uses. It is irritating to have so many variants of one gun, like burst and S versions, and they really need to make it more streamlined so the choice of which weapon we want for what situation is more clear. I hate having to sift through the stats of two very similar weapons to figure out which one I want.
Yeah, having both the Burst and S variants of the default infantry Rifles are the most confusing choice...
I mean, the "S" stands for "Selector" or "Special" and can do all three fire modes, while the burst just does burst-fire instead of full-auto.

If there was some Factional deviation in the default's fire-mode, like there is for Side-arms and Sniper Rifles, then it would make more sense, but right now it seems everyone gets full automatic fire right from the get-go.

Outside of that, there isn't a whole lot that can be done to differentiate specific types of weapons that hasn't been put in already.

Take TR's Carbines;
There was the Default TRAC-5, the redundant TRAC-5 Burst, the do-anything TRAC-5 S, the longer ranged TMC, and the Close-quarter Lynx.

What really separates the Jaguar from the Lynx?
The Jaguar description claims it to be more accurate then the Lynx, but how does it really stack up against the TMC or a Lynx with accuracy increasing attachments?

Admittedly, I think further Infantry weapon developments should follow the same practices of the Specialized Heavy Assault weapons, more Faction specific flavored options instead of slight stat tweaks on the same gun.

Also, I don't know why different models seem to be so hard to include, but could we get some more variation on the texturing at the very least?
Coupled with Palerion suggestion of specialising each weapon's audio, this would go a long way toward being able to tell each weapon apart both for the user AND his enemies.

[ShadetheDruid]

I've been wondering something. Are the selection fire mode weapons really just redundant versions of the base weapon?

I mean, I have no experience with TR weapons (so maybe that does apply to them), but if you take the NC's Gauss SAW and Gauss SAW S as examples: the Gauss SAW S is faaaar from just the Gauss SAW with a single fire mode; it actually has wildly different stats (less damage but more accuracy/less recoil/faster reload etc). The two weapons actually play very differently despite sharing a name.

[Palerion]

Admittedly, I think further Infantry weapon developments should follow the same practices of the Specialized Heavy Assault weapons, more Faction specific flavored options instead of slight stat tweaks on the same gun.

Also, I don't know why different models seem to be so hard to include, but could we get some more variation on the texturing at the very least?
Coupled with Palerion suggestion of specialising each weapon's audio, this would go a long way toward being able to tell each weapon apart both for the user AND his enemies.

Best, most informative response yet. I hope developers are reading this, because this is exactly what the game needs, and I think it would be much more appreciated by the players. More specialized kind of weaponry, less cookie cutter stat changes. Different models/textures and different sounds for each gun should also be implemented, and not just for future content; we need new models and sounds for the bland weapons we have right now.

I think it is fine if there are some of those less special kind of weapons that are just basic guns, but when they change the stats for a new weapon, they need to make sure each role is clearly defined by the stats. There should only be one low rate of fire high damage low magazine capacity weapon for terrans, for instance. If multiple weapons like this are created, it causes confusion and makes people second guess their weapon choices, which is not what this game needs. I would much rather have a long range carbine, close quarters carbine, and medium ranged carbine than three long range, three short range, and three medium range. There is a point where too many options that are not differentiated enough become more of a curse than a luxury.

[Whiteagle]

Best, most informative response yet. I hope developers are reading this, because this is exactly what the game needs, and I think it would be much more appreciated by the players. More specialized kind of weaponry, less cookie cutter stat changes. Different models/textures and different sounds for each gun should also be implemented, and not just for future content; we need new models and sounds for the bland weapons we have right now.
Exactly, it's rather odd that, outside of attachments and POSSIBLY the default skin, I can't tell one Carbine from another just by looking at it in my Inventory.

I think it is fine if there are some of those less special kind of weapons that are just basic guns, but when they change the stats for a new weapon, they need to make sure each role is clearly defined by the stats. There should only be one low rate of fire high damage low magazine capacity weapon for terrans, for instance. If multiple weapons like this are created, it causes confusion and makes people second guess their weapon choices, which is not what this game needs. I would much rather have a long range carbine, close quarters carbine, and medium ranged carbine than three long range, three short range, and three medium range. There is a point where too many options that are not differentiated enough become more of a curse than a luxury.
Yeah, but I think Infantry Weapons are something they sort of shot themselves in the foot with content development-wise...

I mean, outside of Faction-flavored gimmicks, how many more basic types of guns are left to implement?
The only one I can think of are sub-machine guns, which would probably play like a smaller version of a Chaingun for Infiltrators, Light Assaults, and Engineers...

Vehicles have it a bit better, as I've come up with three different Lightning Rocket/Missile turrets that have similar roles to existing Lightning guns, but do so in a manner that at least grants a variation on play-style mechanics.

[Palerion]

Well I wouldn't call them faction-flavored "gimmicks". I would call them faction-specialized weapons, and I think they are very important and the extensive future creation and sale of these weapons will be something that players will definitely want to spend money on.

And not every diverse and creative weapon has to be faction specific. They have added very few of these creative weapons and there is still room for much more creativity; this is why I love the sci-fi genre. Unlike in the cliche modern FPS's, in Planetside 2, weapons can be made up out of the blue. Remember the rocklet? Creative, effective ideas like that will really get buyers interested, and above all, satisfied.

Now, in reference to there being little room for more of the basic weaponry... I think there probably needs to be a total think tank or team that works on effectively implementing new weapons. The developers may have backed themselves into a bit of a corner, which would likely explain the kind of stupid weapons they recently added. They should definitely take their time before adding new weapons, and I think we should be trying to come up with new ideas for future content so maybe the next round of weapons will be a more enjoyable and exciting experience.

[Whiteagle]

Well I wouldn't call them faction-flavored "gimmicks". I would call them faction-specialized weapons, and I think they are very important and the extensive future creation and sale of these weapons will be something that players will definitely want to spend money on.

And not every diverse and creative weapon has to be faction specific. They have added very few of these creative weapons and there is still room for much more creativity; this is why I love the sci-fi genre. Unlike in the cliche modern FPS's, in Planetside 2, weapons can be made up out of the blue. Remember the rocklet? Creative, effective ideas like that will really get buyers interested, and above all, satisfied.
Uh, what's a Rocklet?

Honestly though, any new Infantry weapons are going to have to have a "gimmick" like their Specialized Heavy Assault counterparts, because their are only so many ways you can project damage towards another player.

Now, in reference to there being little room for more of the basic weaponry... I think there probably needs to be a total think tank or team that works on effectively implementing new weapons. The developers may have backed themselves into a bit of a corner, which would likely explain the kind of stupid weapons they recently added. They should definitely take their time before adding new weapons, and I think we should be trying to come up with new ideas for future content so maybe the next round of weapons will be a more enjoyable and exciting experience.
Admittedly, I don't think there is much more they can DO with Infantry Weapons...

I mean, most weapons in the game currently are pretty much treated as rifles, be they Carbine, Assault, or Light Machine-Gun flavored.

Thinking back to my Sub-Machine Gun suggestion, they're mechanically just going to be smaller versions of the Specialized Heavy Assault Weapons; high damage-per-second weapons with short ranges that are rather inaccurate.

Now that isn't to say they cannot be unique or useful*, just that there aren't many niches left to fill.

I think, Infantry-wise, most of the content development should instead be focused on means to broaden the abilities of the various classes.

For instant, Light Assaults gaining a Certification that allows them to carry an extra small weapon, be it a Sub-Machine gun or another Pistol that they could then duel wield.

*The Vanu could have an Energy Weapon that switches between a Conical Area of Effect field that does a small amount of damage for a short period of time and a single, powerful "Plasma Lance" that will pretty much one-shot anyone at less then full health.
The Terran Republic would have a standard slug-thrower that's pretty much a beefed up automatic pistol, like the infamous Tommy gun.
The NC would get something similar to the TR, except its basically a Magnetic Coil powered Ball Bearing gun, so it has a tighter Cone of Fire, slightly longer range, and more damage but smaller magazine size and longer reload times.