My Solution For The ESF Plague

[LoliLoveFart]

It is a simple one and im sure its been said before.
AI rocket pods
and wait for it
AV rocket pods
Two seperate pods so one ESF can't dominate all roles of combat. Hell i'm even content having people who have already unlocked rocket pods have both of them and all certs they had dropped into the pods refunded or reassigned into the new variations.

[GLaDOS]

I feel like the changes they're making are almost the same. Current rocketpods will be AV, with very little splash, so people will actually have to use the anti-infantry noseguns. That way, if people want to dominate everything on the ground, they actually have to give up their power against air.

[SGOniell]

I feel like the changes they're making are almost the same. Current rocketpods will be AV, with very little splash, so people will actually have to use the anti-infantry noseguns. That way, if people want to dominate everything on the ground, they actually have to give up their power against air.

I prefer the nose guns for dogfights...I hate hovering and picking out infantry with that thing

[Helwyr]

Give players AA that is as effective vs ESFs as ESFs with rocketpods are against vehicles.

Remove IR/Thermal Imaging from the game. Or at least remove Infantry from it.

Nerf Rocket Pod damage against non-max Infantry and Turrets.

[WEB]

All bad suggestions, if you remember beta. When they gave infantry too much power against air it completely killed air to air fights.

[GLaDOS]

I prefer the nose guns for dogfights...I hate hovering and picking out infantry with that thing

No, I'm talking about the specifically anti-infantry noseguns. For VS, it's basically the same PPA that's available for the Mag, and TR get some machinegun with explosive bullets. The NC one is absolutely terrible, it's a shotgun of some sort, so that'll need to be buffed.

[Helwyr]

All bad suggestions, if you remember beta. When they gave infantry too much power against air it completely killed air to air fights.

No don't remember it, but even if it's true better to ruin air to air fights than have air ruin ground Infantry fights. ESFs need a massive nerf, they're worse than BFRs ever were in PS1.

[Figment]

There's already very effective AI noseguns. No need for effective AoE against AI. Already far too much of that.


As for A2A dogfights, just get to a very high altitude. AA can't reach there.

[WarbirdTD]

I really don't see what's so hard about this, since I've seen and done it countless times. Join an outfit (or an organized squad) and pull your burster MAXes together. Boom, problem solved. A burster squad that has the slightest of clues will destroy an air assault in minutes, if not seconds. In a teamwork-oriented game, use teamwork. Aircraft are not designed to be mobile targets for solo MAXes or solo Heavy Assaults. They are designed to be effective Air-to-Ground OR Air-to-Air superiority fighters.

Basically, what I'm hearing is "nerf hell out of Aircraft so I can footzerg and tankspam with impunity." Try tactics for a change? Only ask for nerfs after you have exhausted all possible options. If my outfit can attain air superiority with mobile AA batteries in the current environment, why can't you?

If you still aren't convinced and think AA sucks after watching a Reaver melt in 2 seconds to bursters, I'd make some concessions. Buff Skyguard DPS by 5% and range by 150 meters. Rework the Walker to not be awful (coming soon anyway).

As far as the comparison to BFRs... Don't invalidate your previous posts by making ridiculous statements like this.

[Ghoest9]

or we could just wait for tommorrows patch

[Helwyr]

Oh here we go ESF pilots telling Infantry and ground vehicles to use "teamwork" and "tactics", you should be embarrassed making statements like that. Basically what I'm hearing WarbirdTD is more hypocrisy and BS.

[belch]

Pretty new to the game, but thought I'd weigh in as I do both air and ground. I get a decent amount of A2A kills, but rarely get vehicle kills in the Mosquito. Of course, I don't run rocket pods. Seriously though...with all of the AA flak guns, the MAX's bursting up the wazoo...and 2 other factions ESF's climbing down my throat, I have a hard time understanding anyone wanting to nerf the ESF's. I get shot down a lot...enough that I can't see why there is so much banter about nerfing them, or making ground based AA a 'god gun'.

Aren't the Lib's a much bigger problem to ground based units, anyways? I die to them a lot more when I'm on the ground than I do to ESF's.

[Beerbeer]

No one else sees the comedy of fart and belch in the same thread, lol? Oh, and here I am.

[belch]

If we add you in beerbeer, we have a beer fart and a beer belch. It may be a good idea to check your shorts bro. lol

[Beerbeer]

Lol, good one.

[LoliLoveFart]

I really don't see what's so hard about this, since I've seen and done it countless times. Join an outfit (or an organized squad) and pull your burster MAXes together. Boom, problem solved.

That is a different kettle of fish, the fact you have to use more then one person to deal with one person in an ESF and i don't mean deter them i mean kill them, is a little wonky in my opinion. Yes i get SOE want air to be powerful but honestly in its current state there is no point at all to pulling armor. My outfit has had huge success in all of us pulling libs or scythes and just dominating air and ground. Only time it ever fails is when we get met by a greater force of air. Turrets flak and G2A launchers just arn't an issue, fun fact you can destroy an aa turret with pods before it gets you to half health, burster maxes go down even quicker.

I'm not saying air should be nerfed i think air should be powerful but having a one size fits all tool on an already powerful platform (rocket pods) should be reworked. Make esfs have to specialise, do i want to destroy tanks and give up my a2a or ai capability or vice versa. Also libs are in a good spot right now, they are supposed to be hard to deal with unless you chase them with air.

[Sunrock]

To me this sounds like some one wants to nerf every thing so he can't be killed.

Right now you need at lest 8-9 rockets to kill a tank and 2-3 rockets to kill infantry. If you sit in a tank and get owned by A2G rockets from a ESF you can only blaim your self for not picking up a gunner and have a gunner weapon that can word off a ESF. As far as infantry goes you have about 3 seconds on you to get into cover before you die. If you did not manage to pull that off it's your own fault for exposing your self too mush.

I can be ok with they nerf the damage on infantry a bit. But with burster maxes and G2A RPGs there is enough to just send all ESF to hell as it is now. If you don't play in an organized squad/platoon/outfit its your own fault so stop QQ about not being able to lone wolf where ever when ever you want.

[Sunrock]

That is a different kettle of fish, the fact you have to use more then one person to deal with one person in an ESF and i don't mean deter them i mean kill them, is a little wonky in my opinion.

Worng wrong wrong. 1 burster MAX have can take out 1 ESF. In fact its easier for the Burster MAX to kill a ESF with A2G rockets then it is the other way around.

PS: Duel wielding Burster MAX

[LoliLoveFart]

Worng wrong wrong. 1 burster MAX have can take out 1 ESF. In fact its easier for the Burster MAX to kill a ESF with A2G rockets then it is the other way around.

PS: Duel wielding Burster MAX

You sure about that buddy?

The amount of dual burster maxes ive killed with a2g pods is a staggering number it takes 2 or 3 dual burster maxes to take me down before i realise whats happened, one will tickle me but i have more then enough time to run away before im killed by him. I have said numerous times i dont want to NERF ESFs i just want them to SPECIALISE. I find your comprehension skills lacking.:lol:

[Infernalis]

Exactly what I thought (the separation between AI and AV rockets). At least the nose gun require some decent aiming so if you're killed by one the guy deserves the kill (most of the time).

[Sunrock]

You sure about that buddy?

The amount of dual burster maxes ive killed with a2g pods is a staggering number it takes 2 or 3 dual burster maxes to take me down before i realise whats happened, one will tickle me but i have more then enough time to run away before im killed by him. I have said numerous times i dont want to NERF ESFs i just want them to SPECIALISE. I find your comprehension skills lacking.:lol:

Well that is my experience. Many do the mistake and start to shoot at the ESF too early though, so he is too far away and can get out of the way from the kill zone. But you can kill a ESF in 1 clip without having to reload if he is at medium range.

But as MAX units render distance is the same as infantry and ESF renders at the distance of vehicles. This means the MAX will see the ESF long before the ESF see the MAX.

[Chewy]

I really don't see what's so hard about this, since I've seen and done it countless times. Join an outfit (or an organized squad) and pull your burster MAXes together. Boom, problem solved. A burster squad that has the slightest of clues will destroy an air assault in minutes, if not seconds. In a teamwork-oriented game, use teamwork. Aircraft are not designed to be mobile targets for solo MAXes or solo Heavy Assaults. They are designed to be effective Air-to-Ground OR Air-to-Air superiority fighters.

Basically, what I'm hearing is "nerf hell out of Aircraft so I can footzerg and tankspam with impunity." Try tactics for a change? Only ask for nerfs after you have exhausted all possible options. If my outfit can attain air superiority with mobile AA batteries in the current environment, why can't you?

If you still aren't convinced and think AA sucks after watching a Reaver melt in 2 seconds to bursters, I'd make some concessions. Buff Skyguard DPS by 5% and range by 150 meters. Rework the Walker to not be awful (coming soon anyway).

As far as the comparison to BFRs... Don't invalidate your previous posts by making ridiculous statements like this.

How many AA MAXes do you think it should take to do their job? 5 maybe, is that a good number for you? If not, Im going to use it as an example anyway as it makes the math easier.

Say you have 5 dual burster AA MAXes to clear the skies. That's 500 IR (infantry res) and 5,000 certs/3,500SC total spent to do nothing but pure AA detail, with the extra cost of being forced to be very weak to everything that isn't air. All of that is needed to merely be a deterrent to aircraft (read- shoo off) with a rare kill that must be shared between those 5 MAXes.

Now lets see what an ESF needs. 100-200 AR (can't remember the exact number of res) and 1,000certs/700SC for pods to be able to get multiple kills (both vehicle and infantry) with each bombing run. No other cost is called for outside of the certs/SC and AR. An ESF that chooses to get A2G pods doesn't have to worry about being weak in other fields like every other vehicle and troop that dedicates to a niche seeing how it'll still have the default nose gun. A2G pods are a 100% upgrade if not more with them being an AOE weapon for all targets.


So wih that said. Why should a lone ESF need so much teamwork, res, and certs/SC to take down when it is the fastest thing on the field, among the lowest cost (res/certs/SC), and the ONLY thing in the game that gets a 100% upgrade without any cost in effectiveness?

You ask that we bring more teamwork. If it takes 5 AA dedicated people to deter a single ESF (ignoring libbies for the moment) then it'll take 10 for 2, 15 for 3, 20 for 4 so on and so forth. Ground troops CAN'T spare those kinds of numbers in a battle. Quick answer would be to just bring in air support. But by the time it takes to be called and to arrive just a few (maybe 2) ESFs could have DECIMATED an entire front line. Far to much power for so, so little cost.

Now we get to add libbies into this and how much AA they need to be "deterred".

[Sunrock]

You ask that we bring more teamwork. If it takes 5 AA dedicated people to deter a single ESF (ignoring libbies for the moment) then it'll take 10 for 2, 15 for 3, 20 for 4 so on and so forth. Ground troops CAN'T spare those kinds of numbers in a battle. Quick answer would be to just bring in air support. But by the time it takes to be called and to arrive just a few (maybe 2) ESFs could have DECIMATED an entire front line. Far to much power for so, so little cost.

Now we get to add libbies into this and how much AA they need to be "deterred".

That math does not reflect the truth. Our outfit when we are close to a enemy warpgate quite often sets up a squad of 5-6 duel wielding burster, a couple of engies, a couple of medics and some HA with G2A RPGs and we can shut down all air (ESF + libs) that try to get out of the warpgate. We can easily handle 4-5 ESF and 1-2 libs attacking us at the same time with that crew. We have at times manage to deal with double that amount too.

[Juryrig]

As posted in the suggestions thread, and I've seen other people posting similar suggestions: http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=50941

One air unit shouldn't be evenly matched by one infantry unit, same as one MBT shouldn't be matched by one infantry unit; that's why they cost resources and have cooldown timers whereas infantry units don't. The fact that the resource system is currently a bit meaningless is a separate issue, that should be addressed by separate fixes.

They should NOT have a one-weapon-for-any-situation available to them, though, which is what rocket pods currently are. I can't see that changing the splash damage range is going to change that enormously, but perhaps today's patch will prove me wrong.

[Chewy]

That math does not reflect the truth. Our outfit when we are close to a enemy warpgate quite often sets up a squad of 5-6 duel wielding burster, a couple of engies, a couple of medics and some HA with G2A RPGs and we can shut down all air (ESF + libs) that try to get out of the warpgate. We can easily handle 4-5 ESF and 1-2 libs attacking us at the same time with that crew. We have at times manage to deal with double that amount too.

The part that stands out for me about this post is ""we can shut down all air that try to get out of the warpgate"

If you're camping the WG then that is an entirely different type of beast than attacking/defending any other part of any map. If you're at an enemy WG waiting for air to come out then your faction has more than likely already taken the map and have little else to do but sit at the WG on top of having a rather nice pop advantage over those getting camped. You can't compare camping a WG to holding a front line as they are in no way the same thing.

Try doing that in a fair fight and id bet that it wouldn't take more than 5 minutes till your squads position is known and is being flanked from every direction. Once that is known it will only take 1 ESF or libby to take out the entire squad seeing how they can't relocate due to needing to have clear views and are stuck in small groups from needing a constant ammo supply.

The cost of being a deterrent is far to great as it stands. It costs res (if MAX or lightning), 1,000certs/700SC, and losing the ability to fight damn near all non-air targets for EACH person needed for AA. A decked out ESF may have the same cost in res/certs/SC, yet without having to choose to dedicate to a role they will never need to group up like every other thing in the game. But when they do, you best start praying to what god/s you believe in for all the help you can get if that force is pointed at you.


Im not asking for more power. If the devs want ground based AA to be a deterrent then so be it. But make its cost reflect that fact. By having a deterrent cost the same as something that can kill non-stop is to make the deterrent not worth the effort or their cost.

[Beerbeer]

Can still farm like crazy in esfs after the recent patch. Nothing has changed, in fact it seems easier.