Rocket pods need to do HALF as much damage as they do now..

[PredatorFour]

..Then it might actually be balanced against ground units.

[Bags]

My only problem is if an ESF hits my Mag from behind I'm literally instagibbed.

I'd like more than a split second to respond.

[PredatorFour]

Its funny i have exactly the same problem.

[Figment]

And we all know what problems we have with Bags' Mags. ;)

There's a lot of weaponry that needs to be toned down to get rid of the feeling you lost to the weapon rather than the player wielding it IMO.

[Miffy]

If the AA turrets on the vehicles were useful then it would be fine.

They need to split damage types for the rocket pods to balance them, one for AV and one for AI. Instead all they're doing is decreasing the AOE range but that only impacts infantry, it's easy to hit a vehicle dead on.

[Sunrock]

My only problem is if an ESF hits my Mag from behind I'm literally instagibbed.

I'd like more than a split second to respond.

Well you do take allot more damage if your taking it from behind...:eek:

[Archey]

They are decreasing the blast radius by 50%, they don't need to decrease damage, that would make rocket pods useless against armor.

My only problem is if an ESF hits my Mag from behind I'm literally instagibbed.

Now you know how prowlers feel against.. anything.

[Figment]

that would make rocket pods useless against armor.

Not really...

You're airborne mate, you can stay well out of their fire arcs angles and somehow you seem to forget you can make multiple passes or fly with wingmen.


"Zomg use teamwork / longer engagement skills?! D:"

Catch my drift?



All this whining about nerfs making something useless when it'd still be extremely powerful makes me think of "mommy they want to take my toys!".



Do you honestly think that since PS1 Reavers didn't kill tanks in just one volley of rocket pods they were useless? Ridiculous! They were the most powerful and flexible AV vehicles in game! "Useless" is a ridiculous statement, because then you don't recognise that agility, immunity to receive fire (hard to hit) and out-angling capacity are significant unit benefits... A certain pilot needs some flight school it seems.

302 Found

302 Found

302 Found

[Miffy]

I find the Mag the hardest to use because the turret is the same as the vehicle movement, so when sitting on a hill it is so hard to aim because the thing is always moving about. Also the Mag seems to struggle going up hills, it just gets stuck on everything and is really annoying. With the Prowler you can go up anything and because the turret is separate from the vehicle movement you can get steady aim and aim in all directions without moving. I've got so many shots onto Galaxies and Libs and even the odd ESF with the Prowler, you just cannot do that with the Mag.

I just think people want everything to play the same and don't play to the strengths and weaknesses of that specific weapon or vehicle. Maybe this is why the developers have made everything so generic and look/play the same. I mean we were attacking a base on Amerish yesterday and every TR followed the path and waited outside the force fields on the doors and got slaughtered. Not one person but be got a Prowler and went over the hill and slaughtered the enemy from above....

I see people following the paths a lot though, so stupid.

[PredatorFour]

Figments post above was spot on. Instead of blowing up targets in one run/salvo of rockets, reducing the damage would require at least two strafing runs.

It would give AA a better chance of succeeding, which has been talked about alot recently. It would also give me a better chance in my mag of turning around and shooting it outta the sky with my main cannon.

[Zaik]

Engineer hops out, repairs the tank in four or 5 seconds, makes rocket pods completely useless.

Pretty much the exact same thing going on where ESFs taking less than three sources of flak(or 6 if it's single arm MAXes) at a time are pretty much unkillable.

Rather than making the whole system completely useless, it'd probably be better to make it so that it can't just fly right up behind anything in the game without anything being able to stop it.

[Rahabib]

Agree.ESFs need to just Use teamwork / skill and they will still be fine.

[Figment]

Engineer hops out, repairs the tank in four or 5 seconds, makes rocket pods completely useless.

That's not the problem with rocketpods, EVERYONE suffers from that. ESPECIALLY AA. Tried to take out a Lib that repairs on the other side of a ridge yet?

Repair speed is simply too fast.

Rather than making the whole system completely useless, it'd probably be better to make it so that it can't just fly right up behind anything in the game without anything being able to stop it.

That's kinda what you do by... not making it insta-killing the target it has... Then you can turn around and shoot back...

[Timey]

My only problem is if an ESF hits my Mag from behind I'm literally instagibbed.

I'd like more than a split second to respond.

Heh, try running with a prowler. That thing has such a fat ass, it's so easy to hit at it with anything. Magrider, on the other hand, has such a tiny, tiny ass.

[Gortha]

I find the Mag the hardest to use because the turret is the same as the vehicle movement, so when sitting on a hill it is so hard to aim because the thing is always moving about. Also the Mag seems to struggle going up hills, it just gets stuck on everything and is really annoying. With the Prowler you can go up anything and because the turret is separate from the vehicle movement you can get steady aim and aim in all directions without moving. I've got so many shots onto Galaxies and Libs and even the odd ESF with the Prowler, you just cannot do that with the Mag.

I just think people want everything to play the same and don't play to the strengths and weaknesses of that specific weapon or vehicle. Maybe this is why the developers have made everything so generic and look/play the same. I mean we were attacking a base on Amerish yesterday and every TR followed the path and waited outside the force fields on the doors and got slaughtered. Not one person but be got a Prowler and went over the hill and slaughtered the enemy from above....

I see people following the paths a lot though, so stupid.

*like*

/qft

@OT

I think so too. Figment is right, A2G Rockets must be nerfed damage wise and need a toned down blast radius.

It is not okay, if one single ESF can kill a MinBattleTank with a few hits of its 14 Rockets per Salvo...

[Gortha]

That's not the problem with rocketpods, EVERYONE suffers from that. ESPECIALLY AA. Tried to take out a Lib that repairs on the other side of a ridge yet?

Repair speed is simply too fast.



That's kinda what you do by... not making it insta-killing the target it has... Then you can turn around and shoot back...

Yesterday on amerish i was tkaing a base on a mountain/high hill with my fellow Vanus and a Liberator was above us... i was there with my Skyguard-Lighning and tried to shot the Lib in the ceiling. He was that high, that i even couln´t hit him, but he killed me with a few shots of his Zephyr-AI-Cannon...
He was just too high in the ceiling for my weapons reach of the skyguard turret. Which is just WRONG.

[FreeSpeech]

Anti AA in this game sucks loads. I was shooting at a Liberator class ship for ages with a turret and he wasn't even half damage after the 8 constant seconds of hits.

Rocket pods need to be nerfed a dam sight more than they were in this lame patch. Constantly the air is dominated by TR OP ships and Mosquitos are actually able to base rape/spawn rape by simply hovering and unleashing hellfire rockets because the turrets are badly placed, there aren't enough of them and they suck in damage. Even the infanty Anti AA rocket on the HA is rubbish too.

[PredatorFour]

Seriously for AA use a MBT. Last night on Esamir i shot down around 5 libs and 4 reavers with my mags main gun, it aint hard once you get used to it. Even more easier when they are trying to dive bomb you and getting real close ! Mwahaha:groovy:

[Suitepee]

Rocket pods seem a little less OP now, I've noticed a few times since the patch I've been able to survive their spam runs on my infantry self if they don't hit me directly, due to the splash damage adjustment.

Couldn't say this stops them from being used regardless though, or how they are against vehicles.

[Meecrob]

Sigh, i've been flying with rockets since early beta and i've seen them get nerfed in everyway stated above.... Damage reduced, accuracy on long range reduced, and since this week a reduction of the damage radius.

And still 3 days after the patch wich also brought a buff to flak people are still not satisfied....

I guess rocketpods must just be intrinsically overpowered. I use them to great effect im not gonna lie, but i think someone very skilled in infantry warfare can still match me on score per hour. Wich i guess is your worth to the fight.

So please don't nerf this role into the ground untill its no longer fun to do ty ;)

[Figment]

He was just too high in the ceiling for my weapons reach of the skyguard turret. Which is just WRONG.

Wouldn't say it's wrong, as long as he can't touch you accurately and you can dodge his blasts because he'd be so damned inaccurate at that range, in which case one would call that artillery support from the dogfight zone where you can't do much but spray (slowly) and pray based on ground support calls and requests.

But considering the latter condition isn't the case, you're right, it's wrong.

[GLaDOS]

The problem with balancing rocketpod damage against the backs of tanks is that it makes them much worse against the front and sides, and pretty awful against Sundies. We should remember that.

[Beerbeer]

The balance see-saw is fatiguing. Sony has backed themselves into a corner and really can't win at this point.

Insta-gib weapons, like rocket spam and tanks, should have never been allowed in the first place. If they nerf them, which they should IMO, they're going to piss off the majority of players still left playing as that's all we do for the most part. Most of the infantry players have fled or been converted (or don't realize they're being farmed).

A reasonable solution is just to keep them in their powerful state and just make them rare as heck. One hour per tank or esf. Get a tank, die, the hour timer begins, no more tank or esf until that hour expires.

I don't know, I've given up thinking about this. Someone at Sony loves vehicles and insta gibbing infantry, to the point of their own detriment (which they don't realize, or refuse to). The design of bases, spawn locations, critical components were all designed with this in mind and naturally creates this environment. And here we stand today.

[Mathematics]

Has anyone in this thread who is complaining actually tried flying anything? I mean while you're up against an organized outfit, not an empty server or random zerg.

[FreeSpeech]

Dude the flak damage was increased but it still doesn't do any decent damage to a ship - they have ample time to fly completely out of sight and we're talking 10 seconds of solid hits here.

As for the rocket pods, yea yea yea sure yea yea yea tell the TR mosquitos who spawn rape bases with no Anti AA defense that the rocket pods got nerfed - they are still ridiculous and you're too blind to see it.

[Mathematics]

Dude the flak damage was increased but it still doesn't do any decent damage to a ship - they have ample time to fly completely out of sight and we're talking 10 seconds of solid hits here.

As for the rocket pods, yea yea yea sure yea yea yea tell the TR mosquitos who spawn rape bases with no Anti AA defense that the rocket pods got nerfed - they are still ridiculous and you're too blind to see it.

Again, I encourage you to actually try providing air support against a well-organized outfit. Then see how much time you have to rocket-pod things in between running from/flaring missile locks (from both air and ground).

Also, it takes a maximum of TWO Dual-Burster MAX units with half-decent aim to shoo away risky ESF pilots.

If you're getting reamed by rocket pods over and over, then I'm afraid you're playing with incompetent people. Between AA MAX units, a2a missiles, s2a missiles, and competent friendly ESF pilots, your opponent should never be allowed to make multiple passes unmolested.

Piloting is not as easy as you're all making it out to be, which tells me you haven't done it against a meaningful opponent yet.

[FreeSpeech]

Piloting is easy if you're not avoiding fire - and most small bases don't have the ability to equip a Max not to mention the NC Max sucks in general.

[Beerbeer]

Kind of a double standard regarding defending against air versus using air.

Anyways, you seem to discount everything not centrally focused around "organized" outfits. Frankly, that's a bit naive and arrogant; you should appreciate everyone's viewpoints as this game doesn't solely revolve around outfits and macro balancing as people (or individuals) will always find ways to take advantage of the highs and lows this type of balancing leaves in.

[Mathematics]

Piloting is easy if you're not avoiding fire...
That's exactly my point; the tools for dealing with ESFs are already available, so a nerf is not needed.

... - and most small bases don't have the ability to equip a Max not to mention the NC Max sucks in general.

If you don't have a sundy deployed at your current location, no matter where it is, then you're doing it wrong. Also, the NC's MAX is just as effective at AA as the other two factions since it uses the exact same AA weapons.

[FreeSpeech]

it's more that his best argument is "you're playing with idiots" - so hold up - an airship which is easy to pilot, can auto kill a guy in 1-2 hits with a mass rapid fire, high unlimited ammo rocket pod available to any random noob is ok, as long as there's a specific, unique, un-common way to "POSSIBLY" defend yourself that must be undertaken by organized groups on Teamspeak or something...............riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, nice try buddy.

And you say tools, I see one tool so far - the 2 maxes you mentioned which not only requires a Sunderer which despite your claim isn't always the case - they do have a cooldown and cost resources you know, but also requires 2-3 people to be in constant communication, agree with each other (ever tried getting people to listen to instructions?) and then possibly survive long enough vs everything else that is shooting at them, to take them down, while all the TR guy has to do is basically go "terminal, ship, rockets, hover, shoot, 3 kills, done, rinse, repeat" by himself.

No other reliable tool exists, the turrets are badly placed and don't do enough damage even post patch and as for the Heavy Assault Anti AA rocket..........HAHAHAHAHA!

[Mathematics]

Kind of a double standard regarding defending against air versus using air.
This thread is specifically about an possible imbalance regarding air's abilities. I gave specific examples on how to counter the very thing in question. Not a double standard by any stretch.
Anyways, you seem to discount everything not centrally focused around "organized" outfits. Frankly, that's a bit naive and arrogant; you should appreciate everyone's viewpoints as this game doesn't solely revolve around outfits and macro balancing as people (or individuals) will always find ways to take advantage of the highs and lows this type of balancing leaves in.
When virtually every suggestion regarding success in this game involves getting organized, how is it naive or arrogant to suggest that this game is balanced around such an idea? When the developers themselves indicate that organization is important to success in the game, it's clear that organization is one of the ideas around which the game is designed. Therefore, it's neither arrogant nor naive to suggest getting organized. I'm simply giving advice on how to enjoy the game the way the developers intended.

[Mathematics]

it's more that his best argument is "you're playing with idiots"
I didn't say you were playing with idiots. I said you need to do things differently.
- so hold up - an airship which is easy to pilot, can auto kill a guy in 1-2 hits with a mass rapid fire, high unlimited ammo rocket pod available to any random noob is ok, as long as there's a specific, unique, un-common way to "POSSIBLY" defend yourself that must be undertaken by organized groups on Teamspeak or something...............riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, nice try buddy.
Teamspeak is not a requirement to grab a sundy and deploy it at a specific location, nor is this an "un-common" way to deal with needing MAX support. Does it really surprise you that tactics are "specific" and "unique" ways to combat enemies? All I see in threads like this are people complaining after trying nothing and being all out of ideas.

And you say tools, I see one tool so far - the 2 maxes you mentioned which not only requires a Sunderer which despite your claim isn't always the case
It does not only require a sunderer. Redeploy back to your warpgate, visit a terminal, deploy as MAX, hop in a Galaxy and fly back to location. Is this ideal? Probably not, but when you aren't playing with people who will listen, you are going to have to resort to less-than-ideal strategies.

- they do have a cooldown and cost resources you know, but also requires 2-3 people to be in constant communication, agree with each other (ever tried getting people to listen to instructions?) and then possibly survive long enough vs everything else that is shooting at them, to take them down, while all the TR guy has to do is basically go "terminal, ship, rockets, hover, shoot, 3 kills, done, rinse, repeat" by himself.

...

If you honestly aren't able to get 2 people on the ENTIRE MAP to respond to a "Need AA support at location <x>", then I'm afraid your problems extend far beyond rocketpods. Also, MAXs aren't the only option to deal with air, as I've already said. But keep covering your ears and ignoring perfectly viable suggestions. It seems like you're just wanting to vent, and that's fine I guess.

[Chewy]

When virtually every suggestion regarding success in this game involves getting organized, how is it naive or arrogant to suggest that this game is balanced around such an idea? When the developers themselves indicate that organization is important to success in the game, it's clear that organization is one of the ideas around which the game is designed. Therefore, it's neither arrogant nor naive to suggest getting organized. I'm simply giving advice on how to enjoy the game the way the developers intended.

I get what you're saying. You need teamwork to win a team base game, even more so when that game is an all out war in just about every since of the word.

Troops can't do much of anything alone. Every class has a role and needs to play as it for the team to win.
Flashes are as fast as a rabbit with its tail of fire. Cost is being open to be killed by anything.
Sundies are the main force needed to keep in a fight. Without a sundy one can't win a war without massive losses. Costs are being the number 1 target and having a big ass.
Lightnings can have power if they want it (HE, skyguard) but at a cost of effectiveness in other roles and will always have low HP.
MBTs need 2 people to be at full power. Better versions of a lightning in just about every way at costs depended of the faction.
Libbies need 3 men to be at full power. They can rain hell from up high and suppress an area easy. Cost is the need for a least a 2nd person or it'll never be able to use the main gun without crashing.
Gal is transport. They have 4 guns but are HUGE slow targets.

Everything has a cost that needs others to help overcome, but ESFs. The ESF is the only thing that can solo tens of troops, multiple vhicles, and still be able to fight off other air all at once. Once an ESF gets rocketpods they become a killing god without any cost added to them for such power. Everything needs to have teamwork to live and do their jobs but ESFs. How is that right? Please answer these questions for an ESF and all other classes/vehicles and you'll see just how much an ESF stands out from the rest.

What am I weak against?
What am I strong against?
When choosing another weapon, what am I giving up?
What do I need to fight that target?
Do I need help for this target?
Is it a risk attacking that target?

[Beerbeer]

Macro balancing works well in a perfect world, on paper, but it's rarely like that, ever, and clever people will always take full advantage of the finite inequities built into such a scheme.

These people see the edge and weakness and go full bore.

Like the organized ground defense AA VS lone wolf air. So unorganized ground defense AA VS lone wolf air won't work? You're right, it rarely does, but do you see the inequality?