cert rate too extreme

[moosepoop]

i think the cert rate gain is too low for players to feel they are making progress. the gain is so low that the players feel it is impossible to obtain an item. being difficult and inconvenient to obtain items in a f2p is the goal. feeling impossible on the other hand alienates the players. i think the reason a lot of players are quitting around this time is because most barely unlocked anything. the weapons you grind for have to feel within reach. it would help to have just a few token cheap weapons to make free players feel rewarded, i feel the cost of the weapons on the sunderer is really fair.


i feel the initial milking period where the rich players will pay anything is over, and its time for SOE to start setting reasonable prices for both certs and station cash.

right now the prices feel too pushy. if guns costed 2-5 dollars i wouldve spent at least 60 dollars already. so far i spent 20 on a sc sale.

ive played 67 hours and gained 2k certs so far.

[Carver]

I agree that 1000 cert weapon unlocks and 400-500 cert upgrades do make the game feel too grindy. And if new weapons were $5 instead of $7 it would seem much more reasonable.

I get about 100 certs in an average night of playing (probably about 3 hours). That makes a new weapon take around 30 hours to unlock. Then add the extra time to unlock sights and whatever grip/addons/upgrades you need to make the thing actually useful.

[moosepoop]

I agree that 1000 cert weapon unlocks and 400-500 cert upgrades do make the game feel too grindy. And if new weapons were $5 instead of $7 it would seem much more reasonable.

I get about 100 certs in an average night of playing (probably about 3 hours). That makes a new weapon take around 30 hours to unlock. Then add the extra time to unlock sights and whatever grip/addons/upgrades you need to make the thing actually useful.
i havent even bothered unlocking any rifles. they all look and shoot the same. i bought the MCG because its the only unique weapon.

i dont understand why the guns have the same textures and sounds and models, and SOE expects us to pay money for them.


when you grind in an mmo, you get fatigued, in planetside i didnt even try to grind or farm certs. just looking at the cost of the weapons made me feel uneasy.

[LoliLoveFart]

If i recall correctly the intended lifespan of the game was years, so if they lowered the cert gain rate everyone would have maxed out everything in under a year, not defending the cert gain rate i think its a bit stiff considering getting 1k certs takes a week. If you play modestly and dont spend the entire time rocket podding or he lightning farming that is.

[moosepoop]

If i recall correctly the intended lifespan of the game was years, so if they lowered the cert gain rate everyone would have maxed out everything in under a year, not defending the cert gain rate i think its a bit stiff considering getting 1k certs takes a week. If you play modestly and dont spend the entire time rocket podding or he lightning farming that is.

the problem is most weapons are clones and arent even worth grinding for, nevermind paying for.

anyone know if theyre actually gonna keep the weapons like this, or if they gonna put in new weapon models in the future. because this game is getting boring fast. each faction literally has one weapon.


no gamer in their right mind would grind for the same stuff for 3 years. what you do is release new content continually for 3 years.

[LoliLoveFart]

the problem is most weapons are clones and arent even worth grinding for, nevermind paying for.

anyone know if theyre actually gonna keep the weapons like this, or if they gonna put in new weapon models in the future. because this game is getting boring fast. each faction literally has one weapon.


no gamer in their right mind would grind for the same stuff for 3 years. what you do is release new content continually for 3 years.

With weapons they were trying to do sidegrades, which i think they hit perfectly. Models can change and i think it goes without saying, the game wasn't making them enough money in closed beta to fund it so they rushed to release. Hopefully in the new year the team can buckle down and change up the models after they address the cont stacking and some other underlying meta issues. We will see.

[moosepoop]

With weapons they were trying to do sidegrades,

side grade means equal in overall player firepower, not a tiny degree diffrence in recoil, and a white stripe on the gun instead of red stripes.

the MCG is a side grade even though its unique. the game needs unique sidegrades.
We will see.

thats right bro, we will see. i hope for the best. cuz right now planetside 2 seems like a candle burning very bright, then sudeenly going dim.

[moosepoop]

Seriously stfu.... I get 200 cert points everytime i play... for three hours.

People are just looking for things to bitch about ... IT'S AN MMO... M M O.... M .....///.../M ///../.././/.O FPS! IT'S MEANT TO TAKE AWHILE!

Oh fuck it.... You can't collide BF3 with CoD and expect a happy outcome. Bitch to your hearts content.

you were just complaining about getting bored from grind on your own thread, you alcoholic hypocrite. get the fuck out of thsi thread.

[Beerbeer]

Lol, only people really posting right now, farts, poops, drinks too much beer and goes nuclear every now and then.

[LoliLoveFart]

Oh fuck here we go...

[Sunrock]

Hmm I'm usually getting between 30-50 certs per hour play. Ok I have the 6 month sub 50% exp bonus + alpha squad 10% exp bonus. That is 1000 certs in 34 hours to 20 hours of game play. So about 1k certs a week for a normal player.


I'm totally ok with that speed. If you don't want to spend a dime on this game well you have to spend more time on it. That is the "name of the 'F2P' game".

[Wahooo]

the problem is most weapons are clones and arent even worth grinding for, nevermind paying for.

So???? Your complaint is it takes too long to get something you don't want?

Like going to a restaurant saying the food tastes so bad you don't want to eat it... then complaining the portions are small.
:cry:

[AThreatToYou]

Cert gain rate is fine.

[moosepoop]

So???? Your complaint is it takes too long to get something you don't want?

Like going to a restaurant saying the food tastes so bad you don't want to eat it... then complaining the portions are small.
:cry:

free players are the content. they need to feel they are progressing enough to stay engaged with the game. not progressing fast, progressing fast enough. if they feel the game is too much grind and leaves, the game DIES.

[SGOniell]

I'm a free player, though I'm considering purchasing some SC for various stuff. It does feel really, really slow. Its very annoying. This last session tonight I probably got a few hundred certs, but I played for at least 5 hours.

[Sifer2]

I think what they need to do is once you have spent say 20 dollars on the game you unlock a permanent 50% xp gain boost. That would encourage everyone to buy something even if its a couple helmets. I do think the default rate of xp gain is just too slow for a casual player. If I push hard I can get 100-150 certs per session an that's several hours of farming the hot spots. That's a long time for 1000 cert weapon. For a casual that's a month or more.

[Sunrock]

free players are the content. they need to feel they are progressing enough to stay engaged with the game. not progressing fast, progressing fast enough. if they feel the game is too much grind and leaves, the game DIES.

Free players are the content? If you mean free players are free kills for the paying players then I'm all for that. :evil:

Seriously though. I know some free players that have not spent a dime on this game that are raking in 50 certs and hour too without any exp bonuses. So your progression is up to how good you are. Stop sucking and you get your certs.

[Wahooo]

free players are the content. they need to feel they are progressing enough to stay engaged with the game. not progressing fast, progressing fast enough. if they feel the game is too much grind and leaves, the game DIES.

Free players aren't the content, nor are they the focus. They are filler in this game. There are many different ways i've seen free 2 play implemented. Some bad, some very bad. Very few do it right. The thing is as a business you NEED to have people spend money to survive right? The game can't simply be charity BUT at the same time you need to have a game people WANT to spend money on rather than feel they NEED to spend money on.

Right now you are feeling like you are being pushed to the NEED but don't WANT to spend money. I kinda understand, but at the same time, the way all of the default weapons in the game perform that feeling of need should only be there for a few items. Then there is something to work toward, and that is upgrades for those weapons, which you CAN'T buy.

As has pointed out the game's model is to have some legs and be around for years. You just can't have everything unlockable within, even a few months.

In all as I said i've played some good AND bad free2play models and a lot more bad than good. This one? Is on the good side of the middle I feel. Yes it really is evident they really expect the players to pay a little it would seem it is not meant to be a 100% free to play game. That said however. You are not Gimped from the start and have to pay money to compete. Look at all the threads on the official forums about the CARV and Orion being OP... the default TR and VS HA guns. Most of the default vehicle weapons are really good all around jack of all trades weapons. Myself and many of my outfit mates have only upgraded 1 of the two weapons on the Sunder because we like the default weapon for its utility. Everything you need to be good in the game at some level is yours the moment you log on. To specialize is another step but that is the point.

Some models I like and don't like? Games like APB and Combat arms that are not just pay2win but pay2compete i've never put a dime into nor will I ever even if I have friends that want me to play with them. Bad model you are severely handicapped trying to play for free.
MANY MMO's like SWTOR... a game I did pay for, but now to play again for "free" I actually have to pay more?!?! It is basically an extended trial with very limited access to game function unless you pay. Blackmail as far as i'm concerned and i'm NEVER going to give them another cent.
Games like LoL where you could be good, have fun and even compete at the highest level without putting in money. I personally never got very into it even with friends playing so didn't spend any money but I can easily seeing if I had liked the game WANTING to spend money on it.
There is also the middle ground where some initial money in is all you need, well you don't actually NEED to but really to compete you do... but at the same time it doesn't make you uber and you aren't gimped for having not spent any money it is just there that a small bit of money upfront makes it more enjoyable. I don't mind these games. I think PS2 falls into that category. I've played plenty of "free2play" games this way. I put into the cash shop the amount of money I WOULD have spent if it were a one time purchase and that is IT. Nothing more ever needed and nothing more ever given and it worked. PS2 I believe is in that boat.

[Sunrock]

Only solution is to scrap the F2P business model and go with box price + subs. That way SOE can design games without players feeling that most spend money on the game just to survive.

The old school business mode is allot better from a game play perspective if you ask me. Then the devs don't have to come up with stupid game play models that are just there to make you spend money. All they have to focus on is making a fun game.

Problem is that you make more money on F2P games then the "old school" way because every one goes "EEK!" if they where to up the price on the sub to $20 or $25 a month but the same person that refuse to pay $25 a month for a subscription would not hesitate to spend $250 dollars on stupid fluff micro transactions in the game just because they can keep track of there own money. So all they see is that they pay only $5 and don't care they payed $5 50 times.

Wish more players could think more long term how mush money they really do spend on games. The this F2P plague would never gone this far.

[moosepoop]

Free players are the content? If you mean free players are free kills for the paying players then I'm all for that. :evil:

Seriously though. I know some free players that have not spent a dime on this game that are raking in 50 certs and hour too without any exp bonuses. So your progression is up to how good you are. Stop sucking and you get your certs.

i dont care abot cert gain. i unlocked all my stuff. i care about cert gain for casual free players, who provide content for us.

im alarmed about servers emptying after mere 4 weeks.

when you become focused and obsessed on cert gain since its so vital for progression, it detracts from fun. you also burn out and become fatigued much faster grinding in a mmofps than mmorpg since u need much more focus.
Free players aren't the content, nor are they the focus. They are filler in this game.

free players are the majority in any f2p game. they leave, planetside 2 dies.

servers are already emptying out. because the current model lacks retaining power.

planetside 2 is not the game to be self centered and ignorant. if you dont care about free players and look down on them, be too harsh on them, the game dies.

[Wahooo]

free players are the majority in any f2p game. they leave, planetside 2 dies.

servers are already emptying out. because the current model lacks retaining power.

planetside 2 is not the game to be self centered and ignorant. if you dont care about free players and look down on them, be too harsh on them, the game dies.

Free players come and go and rarely stick around. At any one moment they may make up the majority of the player base (or they may not) but they as individuals are not the ones keeping the game alive with their long term commitment to the game.

Everyone I know who got fed up and stopped playing in this short period of time since release, or have dialed it WAY back have done so not because of the cert gain and none of them were free players. There are other reasons the game is lacking in the ability to retain player, players who planned to be around for a while, than cert gain speed.

Me not feeling bad for people who just want more and want it now, and want it for nothing, is not being self centered and ignorant.

[Sunrock]

There are other reasons the game is lacking in the ability to retain player, players who planned to be around for a while, than cert gain speed.

I totally agree with this. If you're worried the cert gain per hour for free players you're worried about one of the least problems this game have to keep players hooked in.

What I think the main problem with this game to keep its players playing:
It's that there is no faction progression long term. Locking a continent is cool and all but it should have higher strategic value then it has today. I hope this change when they put in the new continents. There should also be faction goals that takes week/weeks to lock down too. Not just things that takes a few hours.

[Figment]

If you play just to "progress", you're doing it wrong...


If you need to grind to be able to do anything useful, the game is doing it wrong.

[Suitepee]

I don't have any problems with the current cert rate. Gives me targets to aim for each time I play, so I can make a little bit more progress towards an unlock I want.

Besides, my heavy assault friends seem to rack up certs quite nicely. :D

[Qwan]

i havent even bothered unlocking any rifles. they all look and shoot the same. i bought the MCG because its the only unique weapon.

i dont understand why the guns have the same textures and sounds and models, and SOE expects us to pay money for them.


when you grind in an mmo, you get fatigued, in planetside i didnt even try to grind or farm certs. just looking at the cost of the weapons made me feel uneasy.

Hey moosepoop just to give you an idea of why the weapons basically look the same with just small differences is because imagine if every weapon in the game looked totally different and you were in a big fight. Your PC and video card would get hammered trying to dispay all these different shapes and textures. So to bring down the video load of your card and PC load they pretty much try not to get to radical. They save all that for the cammo and face mask and stuff for vehicles. See you wouldnt just buy design add-ons for your weapons, but you would for your vehicles and clothing right.

On another note, F2P is not free to play, either they will take your time or they will take your money. I have a monthly and I gain certs at a very good rate, on the double xp weekend I broke 800, on regular nights I can gain 100 - 150, and I get my monthly 500 station cash. Now next month ill be getting another % boost on my xp and hopefully they will do a holiday xp weekend. But this game is not free to play, just ask yourself this what if nobody paid and we just all ground out certs how long do you think this game would last. F2P does not mean free to play. Its all about the money man, Higby dont work for free man.

[Qwan]

I totally agree with this. If you're worried the cert gain per hour for free players you're worried about one of the least problems this game have to keep players hooked in.

What I think the main problem with this game to keep its players playing:
It's that there is no faction progression long term. Locking a continent is cool and all but it should have higher strategic value then it has today. I hope this change when they put in the new continents. There should also be faction goals that takes week/weeks to lock down too. Not just things that takes a few hours.

Wow I like this idea Sun,
Weekly faction goals, I guess if the faction captures such and such bases and hold such and such base before friday or say saturday, then there is a cert bonus say like 50 to 100 certs. Or devs can put out certain missions, like on friday they can say, The next faction to hold the crown for 3 hours straight gets so many certs. Or they can start a in game event timer, which rewards the faction certs if they own a certain base when the timer counts down to zero. I also like the Idea of when a continent gets locked, all persons on that continent when it lockes get like 50 to 100 certs. I dont think they should just give certs away for small meaningless stuff, I mean thats how they make that money. But I mean large task that require some type of co-operation. Cool thought man.

[Moodel]

Claptrap. Utter rubbish.

Clearly you are not playing enough or working hard enough in game.

Work harder get more certs.

I've always had allot of Station cash from other games and even though I've bought a bunch of stuff (guns etc) its made no appreciable difference in combat other than I have had to adjust how I play.

[ItZMuRdA]

I do think that the costs of some things, especially the 700 SC / 1000 Cert items is a bit off. I've never bought a 1000 cert item that was also available for SC. I either used my SC for it or didn't buy it. Even though I've earned thousands of certs, it just wasn't worth the expenditure. On the other hand, the 250 SC / 100 Cert or 500 SC / 250 Cert items I would almost never spend SC on and instead go for certs. I'd personally like to see 500 Certs be the typical max cost for an item instead of 1000, but I don't really mind if the system stays as is, as I plan to farm out most, if not all certs eventually over time. I do understand how it can be discouraging to a new player who doesn't want to spend any SC, though.

[belch]

I haven't had an issue making certs, but I have also spent SC on stuff that I thought looked better than what I had available on hand. I didn't have to (default weapons were useable), but I wanted to, and I could afford it. I figure I would have spent $60 on a typical box game, and subbed monthly anyways...so it didn't really bug me to buy the couple of weapons that I have.

I think that other FPS's have spoiled players into expecting weapon and attachment unlocks fairly early. I dunno...it could be like Fallen Earth where you grind away scavenging rubber hoses for weeks to be able to make ammunition or something....

[HiroshiChugi]

in all honesty,i think it may be just a LITTLE too steep at first glance for the cert requirements for some weapons, but if you trial them and use them to their full potential,you can see that the cert cost for it is in fact reasonable. take the zephyr; it's basically and AC-130 Spectre Gunship howitzer gun. i love using it and when used to it's full potential, it s worth MORE than the certs you used to buy it (esp. when coupled with thermal vision).just as long as you play the game's weapons and such to the full potential,you will not be so blind to the cert cost reasons. even though i too think them unreasonable at times,i still play the game because of the fun i have earning the certs. so please,just try to have fun playing the game instead of just strictly trying to earn certs and trust me,those certs will just start rollin in ^_^

[VaderShake]

Cert rate is fine if you are sold on PS2, if you not sold on PS2 and the Cert rate is your only hang up what does it matter anyway???

[moosepoop]

Cert rate is fine if you are sold on PS2, if you not sold on PS2 and the Cert rate is your only hang up what does it matter anyway???

lack of content
Hey moosepoop just to give you an idea of why the weapons basically look the same with just small differences is because imagine if every weapon in the game looked totally different and you were in a big fight. Your PC and video card would get hammered trying to dispay all these different shapes and textures. So to bring down the video load of your card and PC load they pretty much try not to get to radical. They save all that for the cammo and face mask and stuff for vehicles. See you wouldnt just buy design add-ons for your weapons, but you would for your vehicles and clothing right.

has any dev confirmed it?

[Crator]

Slow the game down the higher you get in BR. Right now Buzz is on a trajectory to reach BR100 before the new year. Reaching BR100 should be like reaching BR40/PS1 it should take a fuck long time. Cause who wants to play once you won the game?

I agree but does BR really matter anyways? It doesn't give you anything. I guess if you want to use it for bragging rights it kind of sucks because it doesn't take too much time to gain it.

It is SOE's desire to have everyone who plays the game spend at least some cash. The cheapest option is to buy XP boosters. You could even get away with getting XP boost for free if you join a squad that the members are using squad XP boosters. Or get a bunch of people you know to chip in for some squad XP boosters.

[james]

Cert rate is ok, i feel for premium it should be faster. But right now i do about 35-50 certs an hr with premium. How they want this game to work, is basically what i have done. Player buys premium, player then buys weapons.

[Rahabib]

Before they made the change it was 10-20 certs an hour, now its around 35ish for most players (unless you farm). Before it was way too slow. I feel its about right now IMO. I can unlock short term items two to three a night. If you are only worried about 1000 cert items then the game will end up stagnating real quick because you will already have all the best "side grades" within a short period. Remember, you can unlock other things than the 1000 cert range. Over double XP weekend I got both AT mines for my engy (300) + a few unlocks for my HA in only 4-5 hours (no farming).

[FreeSpeech]

It needs a major speed boost. NC stock guns suck balls where as the TR and VS have awesome stock weapons. So basically unless we pay money the NC have to endure hell on earth for literally days of play just to get something even remotely SUBPAR to everyone else. Pay to win basically that's all this game is.

[CrankyTRex]

If the certs weren't a common pool for vehicles and infantry, I think I'd be ok with it, but since they're not it feels like way too much. Even if they were separate it'd be pretty steep, but at least then it wouldn't feel like fighting between vehicles and infantry.

[RSphil]

i feel the cert gain is ok. some items are a little pricey but as people have said it is an mmo and stuff should take time. just unlock what you need to start with. if the gain was any faster everyone would have everything too fast. i only get what i need and atm its stuff for my HA and my sunderer. the game is only just out and people are whining that they dont have everything yet? this is how an mmo is. take guild wars 2. most things you get fast but the really good stuff will take time, some long time. not sure about the skins being all the same, some are look different but id say they will make more soon. lets face it, a gun is a gun. they havent looked much different in the many years we have had them.

[kamikazety]

Cert rate sucks if you aren't willing to pay for it. I supported PS1 so I bought a 6 month premium and I always have a boost going thanks to the double sc sale. Even with a base of double xp it's not the greatest gain rates.

How about instead of increasing the cert rate, make BR gain worth something. For instance, Medals give you a set amount of certs. Why shouldn't every BR give certs? Say from BR1 to 20 give us 50 certs. BR 20 to 50 give 40 certs. ETC.

Or go the opposite route, more cert bonuses the higher the BR.

MAKE BR MEAN SOMETHING.

[Emperor Newt]

I think the gain rate could be a bit higher. Not double but a bit higher.

But the overall problem I have is that cert gain significantly depends on your playstyle and overall population. I would like to see to get the cert gain per hour playtime more in line.
It's hard for an open world game like PS2 but I like how it is done in Tribes Ascend where you gain a more or less fixed rate of xp during playing (no matter what you do) and you personal achievements give you a bonus on top of that. In PS2 I feel it's the exact same opposit, so people tend to do what gives the most xp, not what is most usefull to the team.
And I can barely blame them for doing it, a lot of stuff people want is behind the "payment wall" so people play in the most efficient way to get there until they have it.
It might not be "right" in the eyes of people who play PS2 because and for the teamwork, but in a F2P game that's just not the way the largest percentage of players will play. If you have ways to be more efficient to "progress" people will go for it and there will be a lot of discussion because people feel their playstyle not rewardig enough while others will. This get's even more confusing with the sheer amount of options to boost your xp (and in most discussions the lacking info if and how high people are boosted)

And as there will be more and more content released with the coming months and years I doubt this behavior/problem will ever stop to exist.

[Crator]

It's hard for an open world game like PS2 but I like how it is done in Tribes Ascend where you gain a more or less fixed rate of xp during playing (no matter what you do) and you personal achievements give you a bonus on top of that. In PS2 I feel it's the exact same opposit, so people tend to do what gives the most xp, not what is most usefull to the team.
And I can barely blame them for doing it, a lot of stuff people want is behind the "payment wall" so people play in the most efficient way to get there until they have it.
It might not be "right" in the eyes of people who play PS2 because and for the teamwork, but in a F2P game that's just not the way the largest percentage of players will play. If you have ways to be more efficient to "progress" people will go for it and there will be a lot of discussion because people feel their playstyle not rewardig enough while others will.

In PS1 there was a big incentive to take bases for the XP in contrast to the XP gained when getting kills.

Thinking about that, in PS1 there was a mechanic that discouraged farming kills to gain XP. Players didn't give full XP when you killed them right after they spawned. Players had to stay alive and get some kills in order to produce more XP for the player who killed them.

[Beerbeer]

Yeah, as a premium member, I don't feel cert starved, although that feeling may change if I ever wanted to save up a 1000 certs, but thankfully I haven't so far.

In reality, as a new player right now, all you really need is just $7 to $14 bucks and no premium. Just buy rocket pods and an HE tank gun and you can farm certs very easily, for now at least, although farmable infantry is shrinking as the population drops.

[Lieken]

I felt the cert rate was too low so I bought 6 months of membership

wait a second I've been had

[moosepoop]

it would be great if we can get squad xp like in ps1- xp of enemy killed is shared by the entire squad

maybe like squad kill- 50xp

[Sawboss]

I've just stopped playing after 4 hours, making 65 certs altogether.

Not being in the middle of the action, resecuring bases being taken by 1 person, manning the guns on a tower near the front and running AA means you lag way behind others in cert gain. It feels like if you're not making the maximum amount of certs at all times you're playing the game wrong.

I wish character advancement was passive like in EVE, you pick what you wish to increase then it's just down to passage of time to level it up. Then I might actually get some enjoyment out of tickling planes with a skyguard.

[Chowley]

I've just stopped playing after 4 hours, making 65 certs altogether.

Not being in the middle of the action, resecuring bases being taken by 1 person, manning the guns on a tower near the front and running AA means you lag way behind others in cert gain. It feels like if you're not making the maximum amount of certs at all times you're playing the game wrong.

I wish character advancement was passive like in EVE, you pick what you wish to increase then it's just down to passage of time to level it up. Then I might actually get some enjoyment out of tickling planes with a skyguard.

I would actually love the passive cert gain ala eve as well i have to say. Strangely as i quit that game again a few months ago :p

[moosepoop]

I would actually love the passive cert gain ala eve as well i have to say. Strangely as i quit that game again a few months ago :p

i think subscribers should get much better passive cert boost, and doesnt require us to login every day.

[FreeSpeech]

In the UK though it's effectively Pay To Win. It's not $15 for a bundle here it's £15, that's a massive increase in the price over what the US pay and it's basically put me off buying anything. Hell with the bugs and balance issues I would barely pay £15 for the game, let alone potentially £45 to get everything you need to be on par with other factions.

[Sawboss]

It's not pay to win since I just use the stock guns for every class, except the cheap bolt action sniper which is 100 certs.

I've put £15 into the game, which is a bargain I feel.

You can't say it's pay to win then complain the stock guns are too powerful.

[Mathematics]

In the UK though it's effectively Pay To Win. It's not $15 for a bundle here it's £15, that's a massive increase in the price over what the US pay and it's basically put me off buying anything. Hell with the bugs and balance issues I would barely pay £15 for the game, let alone potentially £45 to get everything you need to be on par with other factions.

Do you even know what "pay to win" means? My guess is you don't, since there isn't a single weapon in this game that cannot be freely obtained.

[Chowley]

i think subscribers should get much better passive cert boost, and doesnt require us to login every day.

You didnt have to log in every day in the last few years in eve :p stick a month long skill on and youre off.