Tanks should auto-cap outposts

[Beerbeer]

So here's Sony's argument that if you're spawn camped, respawn elsewhere. Well I say, let a tank auto-cap outposts and save everyone the trouble.

[Bags]

Seems legit.

[GreatMazinkaise]

But then what would I bomb? I need a reason for the enemy to deploy their XP Vending machines near an outpost.

[Figment]

No. Tanks advance ground, infantry consolidate.

The current designs need to get a complete revision, defense not made even more pointless.

[Canaris]

No. Tanks advance ground, infantry consolidate.

The current designs need to get a complete revision, defense not made even more pointless.

think Beers statement was more of a frustrated use of sarcasm ;)

[The Messenger]

People would roll tanks just to cap outposts. The tank rolling would be even far worse than it is now. This would also make backhacking way to easy. Imagine your outfit taking over several outposts just to lose them all a guy in a tank; you really want to backtrack to kill one MBT? Not to mention for everyone one skilled tank driver, there are at least five idiots. A skilled lone infrantry man can easily take out these pawns.

If people want to keep spawning and be harvested, have at it. The enemy's stupidity isn't our problem.

[Bags]

They already do lol

[Figment]

think Beers statement was more of a frustrated use of sarcasm ;)

Just making sure SOE doesn't recognise sarcasm as bestestest idea ever.

[ringring]

When you're in a tank, don't you find those walls of the spawn building get in your way when you're camping spawnees? I do.

[Figment]

When you're in a tank, don't you find those walls of the spawn building get in your way when you're camping spawnees? I do.

I like how they funnel everything to an exit without cover when you're outside the walls, but when you get passed those pesky walls, you never have to move your reticule once after seconds of long work, once you manage to find that glowy shield bit that provides you with the skillpoints you're looking for.

I mean, imagine if I'd actually have to cover the entire wall with aiming. >.>

[Canaris]

Just making sure SOE doesn't recognise sarcasm as bestestest idea ever.

very good point, they have done crazier things over the years,

@Beer use more sarcastic smilies in the future, don't want to be giving them bad ideas :lol:

[Soothsayer]

Just as a note, the sarcasm isn't lost on me, but at the same time, early on when all those big promises were being made we were told that there were going to be regions that were geared towards vehicular gameplay. Where alternate capture mechanics would be in place that would add depth to the veh playstyle.

I think the next MMO I go whole hog into for 3 years I'm going to make a list of the promises. Check them off one by one when I see them made good on.

[Ghoest9]

You want all these changes - simply because you are too dumb to stop walking out the door and dying over and over and over again?


Are you aware of the redeploy button?

[Timealude]

You want all these changes - simply because you are too dumb to stop walking out the door and dying over and over and over again?


Are you aware of the redeploy button?

so what do you do when they tank rush your next spawn point and then camp there?

[Figment]

so what do you do when they tank rush your next spawn point and then camp there?

Then he starts complaining the zerg roams free and makes a thread baiting me for pointing out his stance on spawncamping is largely to blame for that.

[Ghoest9]

so what do you do when they tank rush your next spawn point and then camp there?


You lose.
But guess what - if you successfully defended the rush - you would win.


Normally when the tanks get you camped in its because you didnt defend well - or had inferior numbers.

EDIT: And Im saying this as someone who rarely drive or rides in a tank. I have killed far more tanks as an inf than I have kill inf while in a tank myself.

[bpostal]

You lose.
But guess what - if you successfully defended the rush - you would win.


Normally when the tanks get you camped in its because you didnt defend well - or had inferior numbers.

EDIT: And Im saying this as someone who rarely drive or rides in a tank. I have killed far more tanks as an inf than I have kill inf while in a tank myself.

BZZT! Sorry, the correct answer is 'fix the design so that vehicle camping is not viable'. You were close though.
Not defending well? If players would just sit at or outside empty bases waiting for the enemy to roll up on them then they'd be in place at the proper time (the proper time has a window of aprox 45 seconds for you to act upon, else you've missed your chance) to properly combat the advancing forces.
Inferior numbers? Odd that because properly designed, defensible bases should favor the defenders, not the attacking forces. Current base design has this backwards.

[The Messenger]

Open terrain doesn't really favor infantry fighting a tank push. If you're trying to setup a defense between the tanks and your base, that means they're going to run right into you. Tanks being faster will plow right over everyone since no one will have a clear shot to the rear. Mines may work but not everyone uses the roads to get to a base. Everyone has already established that the bases don't really favor defense. It's probably from the F2P dynamic that SOE only has so much funds that they can keep changes. Hell none of us believe they have a Quality Assurance department, that was us in beta.

Or maybe they're just to caught up in the lore since most of the planet was primarily for civilian use prior to the war. I've only seen two bases that honestly seem to have a military design. The stronghold on Indar and Araxis Firearms on Amerish...MAYBE skydock as well.

[Beerbeer]

Wrong thread...

[SeraphC]

so what do you do when they tank rush your next spawn point and then camp there?

You don't spawn at the next outpost. You spawn at the closes facility. Get an MBT yourself, change to engineer. You then proceed to drive over to the outpost they are camping and start taking them out from behind cover. It works best if you do this with a couple of guys, but you can do some serious damage by yourself.
After all, if they are capping outposts they won't have direct access to new MBTs.

[Fortress]

The "spawn somewhere else crowd" might as well just not even play the damn game if they want to avoid fighting so much.

Also, none of you so called defense experts will ever be able to prevent me from camping your spawns in my magrider. None. Period. It's a shit design, get over it.

[artifice]

The "spawn somewhere else crowd" might as well just not even play the damn game if they want to avoid fighting so much.

Also, none of you so called defense experts will ever be able to prevent me from camping your spawns in my magrider. None. Period. It's a shit design, get over it.

If you think it is shit design, then you are free to quit playing.

[Figment]

If you think it is shit design, then you are free to quit playing.

Basically the same as spawning somewhere else.


People do this, you know.


Strange how you feel it's a GOOD thing that people quit. Hey I know, quit suggesting people to quit fights and the game. That might be good for, you know, the game.

[Beerbeer]

Servers are getting pretty barren by the day. Even a double experience event isn't enough to drag people back, which I thought it would. Disappointing.

So don't worry artiface, people are listening to you.

[Ghoest9]

BZZT! Sorry, the correct answer is 'fix the design so that vehicle camping is not viable'. You were close though.
Not defending well? If players would just sit at or outside empty bases waiting for the enemy to roll up on them then they'd be in place at the proper time (the proper time has a window of aprox 45 seconds for you to act upon, else you've missed your chance) to properly combat the advancing forces.
Inferior numbers? Odd that because properly designed, defensible bases should favor the defenders, not the attacking forces. Current base design has this backwards.

Notice that you resorted a blatant opinion to to demonstrate that I was "wrong."

Now you are welcome to have the opinion - but its not logical or anything so you cant use it to show Im "wrong."


As I say over and over you - you powder puffs cant handle being allowed to decide when to retrea. Because this big decision is too much for you - you want SOE to remove the option for you to make the stuppid choice and rush to your death over and over.

I dont think SOE should redesign the game just because you dont have the restraint and common sense to stop commiting suicide by running out the door.

[Ghoest9]

The "spawn somewhere else crowd" might as well just not even play the damn game if they want to avoid fighting so much.

Also, none of you so called defense experts will ever be able to prevent me from camping your spawns in my magrider. None. Period. It's a shit design, get over it.


All fights eventually end/move when one side wins.
Why does the concept of winning and losing offend you so much.

[Figment]

All fights eventually end/move when one side wins.
Why does the concept of winning and losing offend you so much.

When there's no fight, you can't win. Not even if you get awarded 250 or more exp for it.


Why does the concept of fighting scare you so much? Don't you have any ambition or backbone? No spine? Just... camp to "win"? :/ Have you ever played sports? Do you know how it feels to win 15-0? Do you know how it feels to win 4-3 after a 1-3 score?

Don't tell me you do, because you just like stroking your ego by thinking you win when the game wins it for you.

[artifice]

Servers are getting pretty barren by the day. Even a double experience event isn't enough to drag people back, which I thought it would. Disappointing.

So don't worry artiface, people are listening to you.

SolTech has been as active as it has always been, so I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Beerbeer]

Well, these low populations are the new "norm" unfortunately. But I remember the first two weeks and it's nothing like that now in regards to populations.

People forget and become accustomed to the current levels sadly.

[Figment]

SolTech has been as active as it has always been, so I have no idea what you are talking about.

Zerg much?

I know of about 12 outfits that have been drained of the will to keep playing. It's only the new players that are left in my own outfit, aside from 5 veterans, all other (three, four dozen vets) didn't even bother with signing up post-beta because of the game play encountered during beta. And the veterans are pretty damn annoyed. Hell, the new players share our critiques, but they're not as frustrated as us as they haven't lived up to this game as we have and they don't quite know what the potential other systems would have meant. They don't get as frustrated as quickly as us.


And we're on one of the busiest servers, Miller. We get utterly bored playing. As a group, we get no satisfaction out of winning by spawncamp: too easy. As a group, we get no satisfaction out of losing by spawncamp: made impossible. As a group, we get no satisfaction out of resecuring: resecuring doesn't really exist in a plausible sense in PS2. As a group, we get no satisfaction out of farm-gameplay: too easy, we're not braindead. As players, we get no satisfaction out of individual gameplay. As players, we get no satisfaction out of our prefered roles.


There's not much else to do but quit in frustration. Look, we're in just a month into this game's... "launch"...


You can see that the want for a game of this size is big, but, the execution... we honestly don't see that beyond the technical feat, PS2 is worth a rating of 9. To me, it's still a 4.5, maybe a 5, tops.

It COULD be worth a rating of 9 though. If they had had more experience playing this type of game. If they actually lead squads in PS1. If they actually lead empires in PS1. If they played all kinds of gameplay in PS1. They didn't. They don't know what's good and bad about PS1, so they just threw away all the good with the bad, reinvented the wheel and made it a triangle.

[Timey]

2vs5 is a breakable "spawn lock."
20vs50 isn't.

I have no idea how to fix this problem, but it's pretty boring spawning to a spawnroom and running out to get 1, maybe 2 and with superior luck 0 kills and repeating the process. Attackers have a good time though with the constant

kill 100 headsmot 500

kill 100 headsmot 500

kill 100 headsmot 500

spam, but meh.

Dunno, I just always deploy somewhere else if the fight is lost / obviously won.

[Fortress]

If you think it is shit design, then you are free to quit playing.

Or I'm free to exploit the crap design and rack up tons of kills while you idiots defend the very means through which I am able to farm you.

Speaking of getting farmed -


All fights eventually end/move when one side wins.
Why does the concept of winning and losing offend you so much.


http://www.planetside-universe.com/character.php?stats=ghoest

Is this your character? Because if it is, I know more about winning than you do, so you should trust me when I say that the moment more than two tanks can fire upon the spawn room (an event which occurs within seconds of said tanks entering the hex), the fight is over and that isn't fun for anybody except me when I'm feeling particularly sadistic.

[Figment]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/character.php?stats=ghoest

Is this your character? Because if it is, I know more about winning than you do, so you should trust me when I say that the moment more than two tanks can fire upon the spawn room (an event which occurs within seconds of said tanks entering the hex), the fight is over and that isn't fun for anybody except me when I'm feeling particularly sadistic.

Interesting stats. :) Ghoest has 2343 kills, 300 vehicles killed, 515 defenses and 200 something caps in 7 days played. Got 96 vehicles killed, 200 defenses and 68 caps in 1/7th of the playtime. >.> Looks like I kill and assist more per time period too if you multiply my stats by 6~7 to account for time... (http://www.planetside-universe.com/character.php?stats=FigmentOfYerImagination) So it depends what you describe as a win really.

Looks like I just take more risks judging from the K/D and deaths per time period. (Note, I don't farm, I don't camp, what I dislike being done to me, I don't do to others - what I do though, is experiment with new LA routes, get behind enemies and trying to flank tanks with HA, a lot. Think 30% of my deaths is accidental suicides from hill climbing and C4 dropping on tanks with LA. If I wanted a good K/D, I could have the same as Fortress and Bags by just playing it save Vanguard driving with long distance HE all day. Instead, I got a Vanguard with AP and Lightning with basic turret which I save for use against larger groups of tanks, where I use Sunderers most the time to support my outfit). Bad K/D can pay off in higher facility defense and caps.

But as for time... You can see how little I want to play PS2. :/ Despite being responsible for my outfit as outfit leader. There are weeks where I don't play at all. I know the same can be said for other outfit leaders who just aren't that interested due to desillusionment.

[Dragonskin]

If you guys haven't seen it Figment actually has an awesome thread on the official forums showing SOE exactly how they can buff up defense and make spawn rooms better.

Usually don't agree with Figment... but that thread is great and we might even see some of his changes in the future since Devs took notice of it.

[Electrofreak]

I checked back on this thread, and found that it's degenerated into stats e-peen wagging.

Can't say I'm surprised.

[Figment]

I checked back on this thread, and found that it's degenerated into stats e-peen wagging.

Can't say I'm surprised.

The only reason it's been brought up is the constant annoyance with the implied idea that people who complain about this situation aren't capable of playing this game "proper" and supposedly "get farmed" and "therefore need to L2P and spawn somewhere else". The stats above show we're actually more capable than the some of the people defending the status quo in fighting in this environment. Some despite of the disadvantages (like me) and some that will simply exploit the advantages given (like fortress and skyexile).

It's to illustrate that despite of being better at the game in some capacity or another (where most PS1 vets realise K/D is irrelevant to play a conquest game proper if your goal is to conquer - K/D is only relevant if you play to grind and farm), we simply don't enjoy the way the game plays now. In fact, capacity of using your brains to exploit the current situation optimally is probably making it extra annoying and boring, because to us it doesn't pose a challenge to "win" under these conditions. As long as we're on the offense anyway (but apparently we're also better at defense...).

Given how little stats been brought up in all the other threads despite the constant disparaging tone of "L2P and spawn somewhere else", I would say it's a "surprise" it took this long.