Crowd control: How to tame the Zerg in Planetside 2

[Rolfski]

UPDATE: This topic has made it into an official published article (http://themittani.com/features/crowd-control-how-exploit-zerg). Feel free to upvote it (http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/16o7uj/guide_how_to_deal_with_zergs/) if you like it :-)

The Zerg, the Swarm, the Steamroller. It’s the most notorious phenomenon in Planetside 2. It’s the ultimate consequence of the game’s promise that size matters. This huge spaghetti of mostly vehicles makes people rage quit and endlessly cry in forums. It calls out for loud demands to the developers to do something about it. It’s a seemingly uncontrollable, untamable beast. Driven by greed and the unstoppable hunger for base capture XP.

This topic is NOT about what SOE should change to control this phenomenon. There are other topics for that. (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=51436) This thread is about what we can do NOW in the game to tame this beast.

In order to control it we must understand it. There are many mechanics in this game that reward sticking together in a big horde. Feel free to give your own analysis about this. In the end I think it comes down that being part of a Zerg seems the easy way to win in this game. You have to keep in mind that many players are not organized in outfits that can bring multiple platoons to the table at any given time. For those players, joining an anonymous horde seems the most convenient way to gain XP. You just ride along; feeling invincible, kill off a few enemies here and there while the base cap XP keeps piling up your cert stock. Easy does it.

So, if easy winning and XP is one of the main drivers of the Zerg, what can we do to fight it?
Below, I give a few ideas. Feel free to add your own and let’s discuss.


Avoid it altogether
This seems by far the most popular solution in dealing with the Zerg. Just moving away and picking a fight you can actually win vs getting kill farmed is the logical thing to do for most players.


Make it split
Strategically capping points that forces the enemy to split up and fight at another location is a good solution for smaller, organized outfits. Below is an example where the Vanu Zerg is occupying the center of the continent. Instead of facing the Zerg head-on, the outfit decides to make a move to cut it off. This forces a part of the Zerg to split up and fight at another location to counter the threat.

https://0ccu5w.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pPwj0EPjR-p8uH9C2Y0i3rAj_kLJSwjsPyJHgT9KrDy1vdsFBlccnACMCHSm FJxqWMei_iiYoVCQ/split%20up.JPG?psid=1


Redirect it towards the other enemy
This is a hard one to pull off and very situational but it can be done. The idea is to strategically give up territory in order for the Zerg to fight your other enemy. An example is for the TR to not defend Crossroads Watchtower from a Vanu Zerg but instead retreat to the Crown to redirect the easy XP Zerg towards Zurvan Amp station if that is held by the NC.

https://0ccu5w.bay.livefilestore.com/y1phH1eF65IVXSmNcw12ve2-pAe2H9uaGBDrVJsuN0iFQBDOtAa7tXhIkuvoXbmUf8C0o7Emar lVCo/redirect.JPG?psid=1


Bleed it dry
As a Zerg drives further into enemy territory towards the enemy Warpgate, it has a natural tendency to divert itself and run out of steam. This can be helped by fighting a war of attrition all along the way, making it slowly losing its ability to spawn vehicles.


Ambush it
This is somewhat situational but as the movement of the Zerg can be predicted there are a few spots in this game that are ideal for ambushes. Just to give an example: A TR Zerg moving towards the easy XP Hvar Techplant on Indar is vulnerable to Vanu ambushes at the ravines near Quartz Ridge. Anti-tank mines, rocket launchers and Burster Maxes are your best friends is this scenario.

https://0ccu5w.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pKcl0917KJlM2f4sdaquGTZ3q6vU6h32Z0EC02EMATeYE5jp p-v4J_6NAdH8jwY_wdFYkNUtwvbQ/ambush.JPG?psid=1


Start your own Zerg
This can become a handy instrument and is surprisingly easy to pull off. It only takes a squad or two to form up a neat column of vehicles at the Warpgate that will become a magnet to other players. Just wait a few minutes to grow it into a Zerg and then head out and lead the way. Use the easy XP Zerg to attack the big bases while your outfit splits up to capture the outposts surrounding it to speed up the influence. Of course you can always hook in again when the big base is about to flip.

https://0ccu5w.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pPdb2M98RN8ZkVJiN12QQfh_ct1JxT3gfx5APODwW2OZ9Cey BOmCiYdNAHCbo9h4EGbLMH6ZOHYI/create%20zerg.JPG?psid=1


Annihilate it
Yes, it is possible to defeat the Zerg head-on. The magic word here is the Annihilator. Outfits are just beginning to realize the insane power of this ultimate lock-on whore. A single squad equipped with these rockets can tear down a platoon of air and ground vehicles in just minutes. Players are reluctant to cert into this launcher because of its low damage output, not realizing that a couple of them teaming up can rip apart any vehicle apart in seconds from great distances. The trick is here to call out your targets.


https://0ccu5w.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p_4tQcJi4CqLXoe_0qPnBiWeg9ZV_b_3Us8b7ZWiz5b_h4V0 Q5QyeyqX9fQMPbr7ZJUTnF7cGyFg/annihilator.JPG?psid=1

So far my ideas of dealing with the Zerg. Add your own ideas and let’s discuss how we can tame this beast.

[p0intman]

Your command of MS paint is surely the mark of a superior tactician. No sarcasm.

[thegreekboy]

All good strategies. I like them.

[Hamma]

:thumbsup: for MSPaint and the ideas - good stuff!

[Figment]

I would go for a war of ATtrition, not NUtrition. :p

[Beerbeer]

The only way any of those strategies work is if you equal in numbers to the zerg, which means you're zerging, too.

I'm sure you've done this and felt good about yourself, but failed to realize you're zerging too as you tend to pay less attention to the swarm of friendlies around you then those enemies in front of you.

[Fear The Amish]

pssh needs more penis to remind me of PS1

[GreatMazinkaise]

Fly around the periphery and lob bombs at their wheeled XP vending machines... i.e. the only way to have fun in this game.

[AThreatToYou]

The best strategy for culling the zerg is just letting it go really far, and then capping the territory it leaves in its wake. Sooner or later, you'll bog the zerg down in a bio lab and that will let you really conquer.

Another strategy is quite simply to be a free-thinking player who goes where you think you are needed.

[Ghoest9]

You dont beat the zerg - but you can exploit it(in the original sense of the word.)

[Rolfski]

I would go for a war of ATtrition, not NUtrition. :p
Fixed that for you, you've go to hate these auto-correct bots :D

[Sledgecrushr]

Zerg hunting sounds like a lot of fun.

[Mriswith]

The only way any of those strategies work is if you equal in numbers to the zerg, which means you're zerging, too.

I'm sure you've done this and felt good about yourself, but failed to realize you're zerging too as you tend to pay less attention to the swarm of friendlies around you then those enemies in front of you.

This is simply not true, we had for example a situation of the 5th picture today, and even though the attackers out numbered us by about 3:1 we still won by just having ~8-10 tanks defending against a much larger force by waiting and ambushing them in a hard to move pass.
The same is true for some of the other situations, simply having 1 full tank squad with competent players that play defensively is often enough to take care of several times their number by playing smart and retreating while overwhelmed and simply help flank another part of the zerg.
The zerg might look like a big force moving with one mind, but it's very easy to lure small parts / groups of tanks out of main zerg group and finish them off separately without losses. (with a little coordination you can also deal with almost any amount of air by getting 5-6 people to switch to AA Max suits/occupy nearby AA cannons)

[xXArsisXx]

Fighting Zergs seems different on Briggs, probably because of the lower population than the US servers.
If only redirecting them was easy enough.
On Indar, VN and NC basically refuse to fight, instead going for TR.

[kingjameo]

All good strategies. I like them.http://www.wengmj.com/a128.jpg

[Sunrock]

To paraphrase Conan... What is best in PS2? To crush your enemies and see them driven before you and read there QQ's on the forums.

But any decent outfit with at least 25 members online can handle a zerg... The problem might be that the majority of players are unorganized or play with only 3-4 friends.

[Rolfski]

The only way any of those strategies work is if you equal in numbers to the zerg, which means you're zerging, too.

I'm sure you've done this and felt good about yourself, but failed to realize you're zerging too as you tend to pay less attention to the swarm of friendlies around you then those enemies in front of you.
I have seen these strategies working with relatively small teams but I guess it depends on what you define as a Zerg numbers wise. In my definition, on a medium-high pop server: Anything below 25 people I don't consider it a Zerg, 25-50 is debatable and over 50 players is defenitely a Zerg.


But any decent outfit with at least 25 members online can handle a zerg...

Not entirely true in my experience. Being outnumbered more than 3:1 by a Zerg can be bitch to handle, even for decent platoon level outfits. Especially when that Zerg has air superiority.

[Mriswith]

I have seen these strategies working with relatively small teams but I guess it depends on what you define as a Zerg numbers wise. In my definition, on a medium-high pop server: Anything below 25 people I don't consider it a Zerg, 25-50 is debatable and over 50 players is defenitely a Zerg.



Not entirely true in my experience. Being outnumbered more than 3:1 by a Zerg can be bitch to handle, even for decent platoon level outfits. Especially when that Zerg has air superiority.
Agree but the large downside to a zerg is that it doesn't really stop, even if it runs into an organized defense they'll keep pushing, and if properly deployed several AA Max can quickly kill of / chase away most of the enemy air, at least if supported by a few friendly fliers.
And after that a simple 5-6 Liberators can make short work of their ground forces. (Zergs are pretty horrible at bringing their own G2A forces when they're on the attack as well)

The hardest fights to win is where one or two organized outfits supports a major zerg though, for example if there are 3-4 Gunships and 7-8 A2A ESFs supporting the zerg then it's pretty damn hard to stop (at least once they start focusing your AA Max)

[Assist]

Your command of MS paint is surely the mark of a superior tactician. No sarcasm.

Agreed.

Personally I use curse words to direct my zerg and my OP Magrider to direct the enemy zerg :D

[Rolfski]

Agree but the large downside to a zerg is that it doesn't really stop, even if it runs into an organized defense they'll keep pushing, and if properly deployed several AA Max can quickly kill of / chase away most of the enemy air, at least if supported by a few friendly fliers.
And after that a simple 5-6 Liberators can make short work of their ground forces. (Zergs are pretty horrible at bringing their own G2A forces when they're on the attack as well)

The hardest fights to win is where one or two organized outfits supports a major zerg though, for example if there are 3-4 Gunships and 7-8 A2A ESFs supporting the zerg then it's pretty damn hard to stop (at least once they start focusing your AA Max)
Agree, there's often a persistent flow in these Zerg battles that have organized teams.

First phase is mostly escalating ground skirmishes until air becomes a real issue for the defenders.
This is the point where you see teams pulling out burster maxes to fend off the air thread from the Zerg.
Many times, this won't help and you'll get bombed into oblivion anyway and loose the base. Sometimes however, you can actually scare away enemy air and pull out libs of your own to try to stop a Zerg in its tracks.
Still no guarantee for success of course, as this will often result in organized teams within the Zerg to counter you with their AA.
But if you still manage to hold the base at this point, you're often getting to the phase where teams start pulling off tricks on each other and are going for their "Rain of Steel" or Max Crash tactics to force a breakthrough, instantly filling the sky with mass redeploying drop pots or jumping armor.
By this time your base will likely be surrounded and enemies start pouring in from multiple captured hard points, outposts, Sunderers and squad beacons.
If your still holding on so far in the defense of your base against a Zerg: congratulations. This battle will now be filed into your memory under "Epic Thermopylae/the Alamo" :D

[gunshooter]

The insane power of the Annihilator. I giggled. Have you even tried to fire that thing at front armor/upgraded side armor (you're not getting back armor hits without dumbfire)? I hope you have 10 people all firing at once and the tank doesn't dodge or have smoke.

It's utterly worthless and can hardly help with 1 vehicle, let alone a zerg. At least use a regular g2g launcher, now that thing is relevant.

[Rolfski]

The insane power of the Annihilator. I giggled. Have you even tried to fire that thing at front armor/upgraded side armor (you're not getting back armor hits without dumbfire)? I hope you have 10 people all firing at once and the tank doesn't dodge or have smoke.

It's utterly worthless and can hardly help with 1 vehicle, let alone a zerg. At least use a regular g2g launcher, now that thing is relevant.
It's a team-only weapon that has lower dps but superior versatility, lower cost, faster reload, higher projectile speed and ROF vs AV and AA lock-on launchers.
If you call out your targets you can drop any enemy vehicle in seconds.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/up7ATbSq-WE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[gunshooter]

It's a team-only weapon that has lower dps but superior versatility, lower cost, faster reload, higher projectile speed and ROF vs AV and AA lock-on launchers.
If you call out your targets you can drop any enemy vehicle in seconds.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/up7ATbSq-WE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If you get multiple platoons all firing rocket launchers at solo 1/3 liberators you can kill them. I'm not sure why you're linking a video of a huge zerg shooting rockets at solo people in a thread about stopping zergs.

Meanwhile Annihilators still do pathetic damage to armor. I question whether you have actually shot a tank with one to make such a bold statement.

[Rolfski]

You should do some homework yourself:
All tanks have 8000 HP. Damage to the front of a Vanguard is only 75%. To the front of a Magrider/Prowler it is 90%. Side and top is 100% and rear is 240% damage for all tanks.
The AV lock-on does 1500 damage, The Annihilator does 1150, or 23% less

Tank front
Which means it takes 8 shots for the AV to drop a Vanguard from the front and 10 shots the Annihilator.
A Magrider/Prowler will drop in 6 shots on the front from the AV and 8 shots on the front from the Annihilator.
The difference is 2 shots head-on.

Tank side/top
From the side and top, the AV will kill in 6 shots, the Annihilator in 7.
The difference is only 1 shot from the side/top.

Tank rear
From the rear, the AV will kill in 3 shots, the Annihilator also in 3.
From the rear it's the same shots to kill

Also, keep in mind that the Annihilator fires at 13 rpm and the AV launcher at 12.
So a single squad of 10 heavies (+ 1 medic +1 engineer) equipped with Annihilators will drop 13 Vanguards in a minute head-on while still keeping the flexibility to take out anything flying.
That's a full Vanguard platoon or Zerg dropped head-on in under 4 minutes by a single squad...

To keep that same flexibility to kill everything while not having to re-equip with the AV launcher squad you would need at least mix in two AA heavies/maxes while still doing lesser overall damage against tanks.

Choice is yours....

[Baptist]

Hi I'm Baptist an Officer in Consortium an Outfit which plays NC on Miller, I read these forums everyday before work and after, but I don't think I've posted anything as of yet.

My Outfit was having a hard time Vs Aircraft and the Tank spam primarily because we are an Infantry based Outfit, during ops we only pull Galaxies and Sunderers.
Our squad composition was two medics two engineers and the rest heavy with one infiltrator to hack terminals.
We run with around 5-7 squads on an Ops night which we do six days a week, the reason I say all this is we'd chosen the hard path, I come on here sometimes to look at the solutions to our problems against Air dominating us and all I read was flames about how we should get ESF's.

And before you all shout get Air Max's you've no Air Max's in your Squad comp, it's because they're situational, squad leaders would relay commands for certain heavy assaults to change to AA Max, or if the situation was bad the command would come from the Op's commander for a full Talon (Squad) to change to meet the threat.
Still Lib's wiped the floor with us, until two days ago, I'm happy to say we no longer have a problem with air, every Consortium member who is heavy Assault now has an Annihilator, and oh my god how it makes a difference, we are a very organized outfit you have to have a large level of organization to tell people they're NOT allowed to pull tanks whenever they want to, and NOT allowed ESF's at the drop of the hat, so one person shouting out single targets for 7 heavy assaults to is a piece of piss.

This is the way we choose to play the game, and this is the solution to the problem we found, although there are still far to many Tanks and aircraft in this game in my opinion.

Shout out to all the Miller NC!

[WreckedM]

How about a few tweaks to game mechanics too? Today the game design more or less encourages a zerg approach.


Taming the Zerg with Battle Lines & Resources

Goals:
1. Reward strategic play. Unorganized results in higher resource consumption which ultimately throttles a zerg
2. Help players to get into battles quickly and easily. ie. No searching for fights, no getting stuck in deserted areas.
3. Continue to allow players to join their platoon/squad easily. Because we like our friends and friends don't zerg


Changes:
A. Spawn at a mobile Sunderer AMS: 50 inf resources

Why: Sunderers are the key to offensive action. A zerg feeds off easy spawn locations to mitigate constant player death. As zerg players run out of resources they will be end-up back at their base and into a defensive posture.

B. Redeploy can be performed from faction controlled base terminals at no cost. Can be done away from terminal for 50 inf resources. Same for /suicide

Why: Probably the biggest contributor to the zerg allowing it to move easily and mindlessly. Combined with the Sunderer spawn cost this should ultimately place a cap on the lifespan of any zerg. This will also push outfits to use more transport and enforce better logistical coordination.

C. A player should always be offered a spawn point option, at no cost, that:

Is along a territory border base
Is in proximity to an active battle
That has roughly balanced opposing forces


Why: Not all players want to join an outfit and/or follow a squad around. They should not be penalized for trying to find a fight. However they should not be gang-pressed into a zerg as they are today.

Expected Results
By combining the above changes PS2 should start to develop a battle front type feel. The solo and/or unorganized players will naturally be led to border territories and toward roughly even fights. Base defenses can and will still be overwhelmed by vastly superior numbers. However, this will be most successful when outfits coordinate actions and use logistical planning to include transport to ferry forces. Offensive victories will come at a price to the victor and will push the battles lines, not disintegrate them. A successful defense on the other hand will setup a strong counter offensive. A defensive victory will leave the opponent short of infantry resources and temporarily unable to effect new offensive action. The victorious defense will have full resources and be massed at base ready to press a counter attack.

[Rolfski]

Some good ideas, I suggest you also post them in this thread (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=51436) that is entirely about what SOE should change in regard to zerg mechanics.
In this topic, I would like to stick to exchanging ideas what WE can do as players NOW in the game when facing a zerg, not about what the devs should change.

[Fear The Amish]

Much prefer the Decimator over the Annihilator. Nothing says HALT! like losing 50% hp to a side shot and on waterson DVS likes to roll groups of 30-40 vannies so it comes in handy. just point at the mob on the road and fire.

[yadda]

Annihilate it
Yes, it is possible to defeat the Zerg head-on. The magic word here is the Annihilator. Outfits are just beginning to realize the insane power of this ultimate lock-on whore. A single squad equipped with these rockets can tear down a platoon of air and ground vehicles in just minutes. Players are reluctant to cert into this launcher because of its low damage output, not realizing that a couple of them teaming up can rip apart any vehicle apart in seconds from great distances. The trick is here to call out your targets.


Hate to be "that guy" but the reason the annihilator works isn't for any of the reasons you have stated. Infantry doesn't load for air/armor so we get slammed by invisible damage and have no idea where it's coming from and are completely unable to counter attack against it. That's the only reason it works. I have flanked and cleared entire packs of heavy assault and infantry that Iv managed to flank and gotten 8+ kills at once while tanking the pitiful damage from lock on launchers which I couldn't do if it was a standard rocket.

However, getting bombarded with consistent damage with no tracers of any sort and infantry blinking in/out of existence as I try to find it doesn't kill me but it does remove me from the fight as I back off to repair/look for a spot engage (which I can usually never find).

If they ever fix player culling and rendering issues that prevent us from engaging infantry that will be a very, very bad choice of weapons. Currently it works because of reasons I have stated and only because of those reasons.

[Rolfski]

Hate to be "that guy" but the reason the annihilator works isn't for any of the reasons you have stated. Infantry doesn't load for air/armor so we get slammed by invisible damage and have no idea where it's coming from and are completely unable to counter attack against it. That's the only reason it works. I have flanked and cleared entire packs of heavy assault and infantry that Iv managed to flank and gotten 8+ kills at once while tanking the pitiful damage from lock on launchers which I couldn't do if it was a standard rocket.

However, getting bombarded with consistent damage with no tracers of any sort and infantry blinking in/out of existence as I try to find it doesn't kill me but it does remove me from the fight as I back off to repair/look for a spot engage (which I can usually never find).

If they ever fix player culling and rendering issues that prevent us from engaging infantry that will be a very, very bad choice of weapons. Currently it works because of reasons I have stated and only because of those reasons.
Interesting observation, some things to that however.

This article is about what we can do NOW against Zergs. We all now that PS2 patches can completely change the dynamics of this game overnight. Whether it is bug fixing, balance changes or new content. So yes, Annihilators like any weapon, can become instantly useless after a patch. There's almost no way to predict this with the radical changes SOE is constantly making.

Also, to a certain degree this goes the other way around as well because the distant render bug affects everybody: I have many times problems spotting air as an infantry.

And even without the bug, I'm daring to question your superiority as vehicle pilot against a good organized, well positioned squad of heavies with lock-ons that know what they are doing.

[Kerrec]

Please allow me to play devil's advocate...

Avoid it altogether
It works. It's a solution I often use myself. HOWEVER, what I WANT is a hard earned fight where I spend my "valuable" resources wisely to counter what I am facing. Avoiding a zerg, which has the large majority of the opposing team's population, is akin to saying, go ghost cap all night. BORING.


Make it split
I have to say that it is not likely going to happen. Zergs are all about getting XP for taking bases. You can completely cut off a Zerg's location from their warpgate, and they can still move forward and cap more bases without ever needing to turn around. Not to say they won't do it, but you're more likely going to get the entire zerg, than a split.

Redirect it towards the other enemy
Tactically, this is a losing strategy. Every kill grants xp and certs. You are basically advocating the other two teams to go and get stronger by feeding off each other, while you stagnate.

Bleed it dry
I don't understand. Zergs almost always conquer continents. That means they gain increased resources and benefits, as well as several more locations to pull vehicles from. The way the maps are designed, a new vehicle is a nearby base away. So how does that drain them? How do they lose their ability to spawn vehicles?

The way I see it, as a Zerg slowly dominates a continent, the opposing team population steadily declines, often seeing the zerg have 90% of the population for that continent. This is basically your #1 in action, ie: dont' fight the zerg. By the time the zerg reaches the enemy warpates, there are almost no bases left to conquer and definitely no enemy to kill (in any kind of satisfactory quantity). So the zerg either logs off for the night, or moves to another continent. THAT is why zergs lose steam as they approach enemy warpgates.

Ambush it
From my experience, Zergs are not just infantry, or just armor, or just air assets. They are an abundance of all of them. You can set up AA nests to counter air and you'll get steamrolled by armor and infantry. You can set up ambushes to take out armor but you'll get steamrolled by Air and Infantry. You can try to set up ambushes to take out infantry.... lol, yeah right. Most zergs only jump out of their vehicles or /suicide/redeploy once a new base has been reached.

Start your own Zerg
As a zerg forms for one faction, the population on the continent declines for the other two factions. You can form a nice column of armor as often as you want, but zergs influence continent populations such that they are often 70%+. You think you're going to zerg a zerg with your 30%? Assuming they all wait in line patiently while everyone "lines up"?

Annihilate it
No comment.

I think the one thing you fail to account for in your solutions, is human nature. IE: the path of least resistance. It is a nightly occurance to see VS zerging on one continent, NC on another continent and TR on the last one on my server. Why don't zergs ever hop into the same continents and face each other?

Make ghost capping give ZERO XP and I assure you people would choose NOT to defend bases when severely outmatched, giving the enemy no XP for their efforts. THEN people would spread out, looking for fights that will net them some benefit.

[Rolfski]

Believe me or not, I have seen all tactics working in the game otherwise I wouldn't have wrote them down. It's based on my experience playing in teams, not some theoretical exercise.

Your assumptions on how zergs work are way too generic imo and there is a big difference between a casual zerg and a continent overpopulation as these are not necessarily correlated to each other.

Zergs often have organised outfits in them and these will for sure split off from a zerg to prevent a cut-off. Making a zerg fighting your other enemy does not make you weaker at all, it's an excellent "economy of force" that allows you deploy your troops towards objectives that give more rewards.
And yes, zergs do loose steam a lot. You obviously haven't experienced them enough. Vehicle timers can have an influence in the strength of a zerg for sure but most of the time empires will start their own zerg from the warp gate that will stop the remants of a zerg in its tracks. I see this happen all the time.
Many times I have been involved in zerg ambushes (receiving and performing), especially at Quartz Ridge Camp or at the ravines near the NC Warpgate at Indar. Ambushes really can stop a zerg.

A zerg doesn't automatically mean a continent is instantly lost. Most of the time they will gain ground only to be halted at some point. A typical zerg flow is the thug-of-war between TR and VS between Hvar and Indar Excavation. You will see zergs going back & forth a lot between these points. At least on Miller server.

[Kerrec]

What else can I say? I play on Jaeger. I have about 53 hours played total on my TR character and maybe 20? on my NC.

Out of those 73 hours played, I have either:

1) been part of a zerg or playing on the outskirts of one as it sweeps across the continents, or

2) been part of 10% population my faction has on a particular continent, trying not to pick off more than I can chew.


I don't know if you consider 70 ish hours "enough" time to have an opinion, but if I didn't expect the gameplay to change with future updates/patches, then I wouldn't keep playing. Because ALL I have seen in 70 hours is ZERG facing insignificant resistance, from both ends of the stick.

Zerg by definition, in its roots as a Starcraft "race", is overwhelming with sheer numbers. I can't possibly see how you'd convince me that population imbalances on a continent isn't tied to the "zerg"?

The way it plays out on my server, is each continent has a different color zerg. You choose to fight against it, be part of it, or play "near" your faction's zerg. I don't see any other choices.

I'm not part of any big Outfit, but it's blatently obvious where the zergs are. If some Outfit is looking for tactical play, why don't the Zergs face off against each other instead of just dominating their one contient? The reality seems like pretty good evidence for my "generic" assumptions on zergs.

I do applaud your efforts to try and find ways to fight. I suppose I've just become cynical and don't expect it to happen unless the game mechanics force the issue.

[Rolfski]

Continent overpopulation isn't the same as local concentration of force or zerg. Check this topic on what is defined as a zerg in PS2. You can be severely outnumbered on a continent while still maintaining a steamroller of 25+ vehicles. In the other way around it's certainly not impossible for a faction to have a population of 50%+ but still fighting on so many fronts that neither of these fronts has a zerg going on.

And I guess there are differences based on server. Miller is fairly competitive. You will often see continent population in relative balance and zergs duking it out vs another or outfits using these tactics to deal with zergs.

[Kerrec]

Well, if account wide unlocks get put in the game, I'll abandon Jaeger because all I see are hugely imbalanced fights solely due to continent population imbalance.

As for the definition of Zerg, the way I've experienced it on Jaeger, is the more value a base awards, the more concentrated the attacking force becomes. For example, a base that awards 1000 xp will have hundreds (hard to guess real numbers) of people swarming all over it, while the outlying bases that give 500 or 250 xp will have noticeably less. UNLESS one of those smaller bases has a larger defending force, then the kill xp of those bases raises the prospect of "more XP" and it gets swarmed.

Without tooting my own horn, I will say that I reliably predict the path of the Zerg. I don't like being in the middle of one, fighting over scraps. So I'll often leap frog ahead of a zerg, predicting where it will go next and hope to have a good battle against whoever is defending. Either I succeed, and the zerg catches up to me to cap the base, or I fail and find the Zerg there by the time I get back. I'm not often wrong. So I feel justified in stating what seems obvious to me.

[Morsong]

This is awesome! I was in a random full platoon today and was wondering why our zerg was avoiding the enemy zerg. If I was the leader I would have done exactly what the OP is trying to convey. We need more zerg hunting PUGs!! :)

[Rolfski]

This topic has made it into an official published article (http://themittani.com/features/crowd-control-how-exploit-zerg) so thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion. Unfortunately, I had to ditch my MS Paint artwork for something more boring and formal.

[Kerrec]

Congratulations on your article. Sincerely. :) Both of them, actually.

Also worth noting, that in the comments, the first couple comments are from people that are pretty much saying the same thing I've said already in this forum.

I do applaud the attempt to find a way to tackle zergs. Wish my server would pit zerg vs. zerg instead of the continent merry go round that is currently the status quo.

[Rockit]

Do something like this and I will be impressed. Who won outfit wars back in the day? FC? I don't know who these clowns are in this vid but they are organized. Sorry ASL I know you but just for dramatic effect.

Planetside OutfitWars - YouTube

[Rockit]

This is how we used to play. Personal.

[PoisonTaco]

Just need to build some Colossi and the zerg are no problem. All that splash damage is too much for a ground zerg. If they start massing air we'll get blink stalkers to deal with it.

On a more serious note, would adding more death penalties help reduce the zerg? Like in PS1 if you died too much you had a longer respawn timer. That could help a lot.

[Rockit]

If you want to interest small spec outfits like UMVS, DT, ASL, give them a purpose. They don't zerg but rather kick the enemy in the balls where it hurts. Problem is where is that ballsack? Oh and via my friend Checko. Why in the hell is the TTK so damn low?

[Rockit]

Please get Dave Georgeson on this project Smed!

[Rockit]

I may get told to fuck off but I asked for Dave.

[Hamma]

Dave is awesome.