Render problem amplified...

[ComerEste]

First I shall start off with, I AM NOT STATING THIS OUTFIT IS EXPLOITING. This will simply be a recount of what happened tonight that lasted for at least 20-30 minutes. I am bringing this up for the purpose of pointing out how the render distance problem is going to start wearing people down and not wanting to play, which is bad for any game, even a FTP.

So I log on my NC guy on Waterson to play with my buddy. It logged us in on Indar, after checking the map for whether or not we should stay or go to the other continents, we decided to stay. We pulled Reavers, but as soon as we left the warp gate, we started taking fire. We ran back into the bubble and proceeded to check the surrounding area. We didn't see anything, so we headed out again, this time my buddy didn't make it back to the warp gate in time before he was shot down with Burster flak. So since I have seen people camp the rock butte by the warp gate before, I went to fly over it with my Reaver. The outfit, C22(TR), didn't render on my screen until I was on top of them but they obviously saw me as I started taking damage the moment I left the warp gate.

I saw at least a platoon worth of Burster's, Medics, and Engineers from C22(TR). It was at that point that me and my friend simply didn't want to play anymore. If that's what this game is going to turn into, we don't want to waste our time playing it waiting for empty developer promises on a fix.

Instead of just logging off, we decided to fight fire with fire. If they are going to camp the warp gate, then we'll try to disrupt them but from the TR instead. So we logged on our TR characters and proceeded to jump in the various aircraft and made ramming runs on them. We even both used station cash to purchase the Zephyr for the Lib so we could bomb them.

Now some people might be thinking that we're cowards or we're playing cheap, but keep in mind that we only resorted to this to combat a large group of people camping our warp gate. Even if you were to use the argument that they were using a legitimate strategy, so were we. Last I checked, espionage and sabotage are legitimate strategies in war.

The point of this post though is drive home the fact that SOE really needs to find something to do about this render distance problem as getting killed on a DAILY basis by invisible enemies is driving me away from this game, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

P.S. - If you C22 guys truly didn't know that you weren't rendering to the NC, then I hope you join in on the quest to get SOE to fix the problem. We made each other laugh at the ridiculousness of the situation. I think one skeeter pass must've taken out like 15 of you at once. :D :cool:

[moosepoop]

wow, what a loser.

[ComerEste]

How so?

[gunshooter]

What the hell made you think that posting this is a good idea? You're just total scum.

[Shubniggurath]

I hope your account gets banned for griefing.

[Meatball Mobeus]

Eh... I agree that the render issue is a major problem, and it is destroying my enjoyment of the game.

But I don't think I'll ever resort to what you did, I may get frustrated from time to time because of it, but I think I would just log off after a bit.

[ComerEste]

Again, how so? How are people camping the warp gate better than me in terms of morals? Also the fact that you bring morals into a WAR game is funny, but that's besides the point. I don't see a difference.

They are using their numbers to control the NC warp gate. They are up high on a rock formation only reachable by air or from dropping down from above, either way they still have the advantage because they don't render on your screen for you to counter them in any way. So since we couldn't counter them on the NC, we "infiltrated the TR" and attempted to disrupt them that way since it was only the 2 of us.

How many times have we all seen the developers themselves state that "strategy trumps zerging", which is why they don't see zerging as a problem? Why is it when an enemy has Superior numbers and my friend and I decide the "strategy" we're going to use is to disrupt them any way possible, that we're all of a sudden "total scum"?

Edit: Wanted to add that if we could have done something about them as NC, we would have. The first thing I said when I saw this happening was that "I wish I had an orbital strike right now". We had just logged on so logging off didn't enter our minds. We also wanted to help our empire and try to do something about the campers, but with just us 2 against a whole platoon, our options were extremely limited. We took the TK route simply because we couldn't approach them any other way. If the render distance wasn't so bad, we could've rocket spammed them from the warp gate.

[gunshooter]

You can't counter them? You realize you don't have to fly? Get some people together and fly a galaxy in low or at the flight ceiling (Flak can't hit that high up) and drop them, or get some LA's and fly up the cliff. It's ridiculous and sad enough that you did this, but it's just incomprehensible that you're defending it and using the term "sabotage" unironically, do you think this is a real war and you're a heroic spy? I mean really, YOU PAID SC FOR A ZEPHYR SO THAT YOU CAN GRIEF THEM BETTER? What am I reading?

What you're doing is intentionally teamkilling. This is not war, this is a videogame with set mechanics that you're abusing because you're angry at dying. Pathetic, sad person.

[ComerEste]

Your right, this is a video game, so how do you counter an enemy you can't see? Also, are you really suggesting we should've tried inviting random people into a squad, hoping they weren't noobs, and charge an organized platoon of people we can't even see until we're right on top of them? Never mind the fact that doing this probably would've taken hours to try and setup.

We are not proud that we had to do this, but given the circumstances, I don't see how you can blame us. Not everyone is so lucky to be in an organized outfit. Your also ignoring the primary cause of why this happened. If the TR camping the warp gate had rendered, we would've gladly stayed on NC and attempted to kill them properly. We only did this because there were no other reasonable options.

EDIT: To be honest, I do not wish to defend our actions. I simply made the post in hopes that people would see the rendering issue is a much bigger problem than some would like to admit. If SOE deems our actions as griefing, then so be it, we will never do it again. But I find it funny that I should be hated and scorned for using my damn brain to try and figure out how to solve a problem. Just because I didn't choose the solution you would've, doesn't make me a bad person.

[LoliLoveFart]

The annihilator has really amplified the problem for me, being locked on by people you cant see firing invisbile missles from hundreds of meters away WITHOUT the render issues is bad enough but when 400-500 people are in the same fight and you cant see things until you are right on top of them but they can see your vehicle miles away, totally unfun, vehicles should at least be able to defend themselves, not be left to wonder what direction and where the fire is coming from.

[MrEclectic]

First post here, but this really got me outraged.

So, let's see if I got this right: An organised platoon of an outfit, probably during a weekly event (that's when outfits manage to do something like this - and it's a social event for those members), got their act together, and finally manage to get to a great tactical position just outside the enemy's warpgate. They manage to dig in, demonstrating initiative and resourcefulness. Among other things, they manage to repel a couple of "aces". And what these "aces" do? They alt characters, and grief them. Well done!

If you have to resort to such cheesiness, perhaps a career in the dairy industry would be more appropriate...

[Sturmhardt]

Wow... what move from you and your buddy. I agree that the render distance is an issue, but griefing by changing faction? Man, that is a whole other level of assholism. Next time play fair or go to another cont or something, but don't be an asshole.

[Timealude]

while, i dont like your tatics, this is one of the reasons im against the cross faction characters.

Anyways to your point, I mostly play infiltrator...tonight on mattherson we had a huge NC push on crossroads after fighting them between broken arch and tarwich for about an hour. When they started rolling infantry zerg they were able to get most of their heavies and MAXes up to the tower simply because of the render being bad enough to where we cant even hit them because there are so many. I could see how a huge outfit could use this as an advantage and force this render issue on blitzkrieg battles and allow them to push all the way up to a tower base or outpost simply because we render for them but they dont render for us.

[kijuro]

Let me start by saying, you are obviously not the only ones that got shot down. Spamming a rally call to kill them would have given you a much more satisfied victory.
You could have used that situation to organize nearly every NC pilot and sneak in behind them. You could have created something epic because other people were likely angry.
Try to be the one to organize a zerg for a purpose instead.

Now the devs allowed faction switching on same server without a different account. I would have to say this was valid use of a feature of the game. If you don't like it, petition the devs to go back and require a different account so it's clear someone is a trash heap instead of playing the game as intended.

Sent from my POS using Tapatalk 2

[Suitepee]

First post here, but this really got me outraged.

So, let's see if I got this right: An organised platoon of an outfit, probably during a weekly event (that's when outfits manage to do something like this - and it's a social event for those members), got their act together, and finally manage to get to a great tactical position just outside the enemy's warpgate. They manage to dig in, demonstrating initiative and resourcefulness. Among other things, they manage to repel a couple of "aces". And what these "aces" do? They alt characters, and grief them. Well done!

If you have to resort to such cheesiness, perhaps a career in the dairy industry would be more appropriate...

Pretty much sums up the thread.

[KaskaMatej]

Anti-air camping the warpgate is a valid play from an organized group. While I agree that render distance is a problem, you were a total douche by changing empires and teamkilling them.

You had two more continents to go to.

[Brusi]

I want to say something about NC, TK, dickmove... But I wouldn't say that they TK any more than the other empire now (I.e. PS2).

Your total lack of comprehension on just how much of a dickhead you are just goes to highlight the more pressing problem here, however.

THAT EMPIRE SWAPPING TK'ers NEED TO BE DISCOURAGED, DISARMED AND PUNISHED!

At least they were using real, current, semi-legitimate game mechanics. If you had told us about how you snuck up on them due to the dynamic render problem and dropped mines, C4, grenades and shit all amongst them, you would probably be heralded a hero ;p

[Sturmhardt]

Oh btw I hope they reported you and your buddy and you get at least a temp ban for griefing.

[yadda]

This is despicable. What told you it was a good idea to post this?

"Oh hey something is wrong with the game engine so lets go make a character on their faction and TK them instead". Seriously? Instead of being a dick why didn't you just, you know, fly out the other side of the warp gate?

You are scum and exactly what is wrong with this game. Not only are you an airchav who no one respects to begin with but you also switch factions to abuse others when things don't go your way.

[ComerEste]

Let me start by saying, you are obviously not the only ones that got shot down. Spamming a rally call to kill them would have given you a much more satisfied victory.
You could have used that situation to organize nearly every NC pilot and sneak in behind them. You could have created something epic because other people were likely angry.
Try to be the one to organize a zerg for a purpose instead.

Now the devs allowed faction switching on same server without a different account. I would have to say this was valid use of a feature of the game. If you don't like it, petition the devs to go back and require a different account so it's clear someone is a trash heap instead of playing the game as intended.

Sent from my POS using Tapatalk 2

Every NC pilot? Most had left the continent because of this group. And have you ever tried to organize random people to do something coordinated? We would've needed at least a platoon worth of people to fight them. A platoon worth of a randoms that you have no guarantee that they know what they're doing.

As for your 2nd paragraph, that is my exact point. While I agree with everyone here that says it was a douche tactic, it is all with in the outlines of the game. I didn't see it as griefing as we are NC. TR are an enemy faction that we don't play. "Infiltrating" the TR to try and stop them from camping our warp gate or at least slow them down. Yes this is a game, but a game based around war, and in war you do anything to win.

EDIT: Also, while I don't doubt some of them reported us, the /tells we got from them included them saying they were laughing their asses off. So we probably created a memorable moment for all them. "Remember that time those 2 NC guys made TR characters to try and knock us off the rock outside their warp gate?".

[Lonehunter]

I just want to insert, there is nothing tactical, worth bragging about, accomplishing, nor should it be anyone's goal, to

CAMP A WARPGATE!

So many people think camping a spawn = win, why wouldn't they that's how every outpost and base fight goes. So with the warpgate being the largest spawn on the continent, people want to just sit there patrolling it farming idiots who try to leave. If there's no other fight to be had, and all you want to do is play PS2, and the very people who DESIGNED THE GAME allow us to instantly swap empires, you're gonna piss off the people being camp'd and they're going to grief you.

Get over it or quitcherbitchin

[AThreatToYou]

The biggest problem is that there is a foothold to camp in the first place.

[ComerEste]

@ LoneHunter and AThreatToYou, thank you for looking past the tiny problem and seeing the bigger problem.

[MrEclectic]

I just want to insert, there is nothing tactical, worth bragging about, accomplishing, nor should it be anyone's goal, to

CAMP A WARPGATE!


Actually you are technically correct. It is an operational success and strategic victory.

Reaching, in any kind of cohesive fashion, a region near an enemy's warpgate means that the outfit traveled all the way down or up there, picking fights, evading when necessary. Then they dig in, and succeed in not getting dislodged, while sitting next to the enemy's main point of reinforcements, all the time working as a team. It also means, even if they are just exploiting the zerg, that they did that successfully.

Ofcourse they can be removed from the region. A combined assault, or just sheer numbers can achieve that. Even if they manage to match enemy armour or air in the beginning, and even if maintaining good attrition rate, the fact that replacement for every tank or aircraft they lose has to travel so much further, puts them at a disadvantage. Or the warpgate's faction can sneak past them, and flank them, since each warpgate has a region that is approachable by the enemy by only one or two hexagons. And finally, if someone feels that any of that is too much effort, there is the option of going to another continent, where his or her faction is doing better. We all do. Either we've played an already long session, or just don't feel like it that day or even ever.

...for looking past the tiny problem and seeing the bigger problem.

As for the issue at hand, this is a game, and an MMO at that. Meaning that each one of us is not only a player, but also a part of that game to the rest. It should be fun, so we should keep it that way (often in a cruel kind of way, either someone's dishing it out or receiving it). And for those that view it as a competitive e-sport, one more reason to be sportsmanlike. There are issues with the game, both gameplay balance and meta, but that responsibility lies with SOE. All the above, IMHO, is the main point of the debate, and why most got rightfully riled up. And this IS the BIGGEST PROBLEM.

tl;dr: Holding territory next to a warpgate is not like spawncamping. And be respectful of other players. If someone has an issue with a technical or design shortcoming of the game (we all do), take it up with SOE.

[RSphil]

The biggest problem is that there is a foothold to camp in the first place.

this will be sorted when other continents are inserted.

but though the render issue is annoying me also from a sniping point of view i dont agree with swapping faction and tk'ing.

there where other ways around like spawning tanks, organizing a force to go counter them or even just swapping continents.

most problems will be sorted out when stuff gets fixed or added. the one thing i would like them to remove is same server cross faction chars. makes griefing for the wrong reason to easy.

[Belhade]

This episode just highlights a major, game-breaking flaw in the game. Extreme issues demand extreme measures. The OP isn't what's wrong with the game; bugs making the game unplayable is what's wrong. Stop hating; y'all probably exploit the render bug yourselves and don't want it fixed.

[ComerEste]

This episode just highlights a major, game-breaking flaw in the game. Extreme issues demand extreme measures. The OP isn't what's wrong with the game; bugs making the game unplayable is what's wrong. Stop hating; y'all probably exploit the render bug yourselves and don't want it fixed.

That is exactly why I posted. I fully expected to get flamed for this action, but I was hoping people would see the overall picture that this is a big issue, and if it continues, players will either not play the game or use desperate measures like my friend and I did.

Could we have gone to another continent? Sure, but the render problem is everywhere. The only way to avoid the render problem is to stay clear of hotspots and go for empty hexes. Which if that's what we have to do, we might as well go play BF3. We want to play PS2 for the large scale battles that were promised to us by the Devs. But if we can only render 50 people on the screen at once, whats the point?

[Assist]

That is exactly why I posted. I fully expected to get flamed for this action, but I was hoping people would see the overall picture that this is a big issue, and if it continues, players will either not play the game or use desperate measures like my friend and I did.

Could we have gone to another continent? Sure, but the render problem is everywhere. The only way to avoid the render problem is to stay clear of hotspots and go for empty hexes. Which if that's what we have to do, we might as well go play BF3. We want to play PS2 for the large scale battles that were promised to us by the Devs. But if we can only render 50 people on the screen at once, whats the point?

You couldn't just fly out a different side? Couldn't go grab some vehicles and kill them from behind? If you don't have enough people that's what the chat system is for.

Yeah, I generally think you're scum for resulting to TK/griefing to accomplish your goal. I hate the render distance shit as much as anyone, but you can work to play around it.
If they were there with a sunderer just go to the ceiling in a lib and destroy it, bursters can't hit air at max height. If they didn't have a sunderer than you should have no issues rolling out some armor to take them out.

I rage at this game a lot, but there's ways around everything. With the exception of bio labs. WTB bio lab nerf.

[ComerEste]

You couldn't just fly out a different side? Couldn't go grab some vehicles and kill them from behind? If you don't have enough people that's what the chat system is for.

If they were there with a sunderer just go to the ceiling in a lib and destroy it, bursters can't hit air at max height. If they didn't have a sunderer than you should have no issues rolling out some armor to take them out.

Did you not read the other posts besides my first one? It was a platoon or 2 worth of an organized outfit, that means we would either need more people than them (zerg) or an equal number of organized people. The first would take hours to put together and the 2nd would require an organized outfit, which we aren't a part of.

They didn't have a sundy as from the sheer number of medics and engineers, they didn't need one. At least in PS1 the med/repair tools used ammo, which would've prevented this sort of thing from going on for hours. That is unless the devs made the ammo dispenser also give tool ammo, then we're back to square one.

And you can't go up and out of range of the flak to bomb them because in order for your shots to do damage, they have to be rendered on your screen, which they weren't.

They were on top of a ledge that sticks out of a cliff. No ground vehicle can hit them from below and if you try to go up to the top of the cliff, you again run into the render problem of not being able to damage them because you can't see them. Meaning you would have to risk falling down the cliff in your tank, possibly flipping over and exploding, and when you get there, for all we knew the engineers probably just mined it up.

So far the only thing that I have agreed that we should've done is went to another continent. But we didn't. Partly because we've been so frustrated with all the problems in the game lately that I guess we just hit the boiling point. And the other part being that the render problem is everywhere. We would have to avoid all big battles, which is stupid because we play PS2 specifically for the large scale battles.

[ComerEste]

They're human beings playing a game as it was built, to kill the enemy. Your
plans of being a Lib whoring shit was foiled so you did what shits, spoil fun.

What? If what you said means what I think it means, how is it different than what I did?

I am a human being playing a game. Playing a different faction on the same server is built into the game. They were my enemy, so I killed them any way possible. When I first encountered them I was in a Reaver. I even tried ramming them with my Reaver and succeeded in killing some of them. I had to do this because they would not render for me to shoot them until I was on top of them. Even if I was in a Lib, that wouldn't have made a difference because the game is setup right now to where you cannot damage something that isn't rendered on your screen.

[igster]

Faction switching on the same server was only recently 'allowed' back into the game. Until about 2 weeks ago, you couldnt create a character on the same server with a different faction exactly to stop this griefing crap.

In PS1 it had the same deal originally for a number of years. They then reduced it so that you could have other characters on the same server but you had an 8 hour cooldown on swapping factions... again to stop this kind of shitty 'griefing' and spying.

IE. Gaining an unfair advantage over your opposing faction by simply logging in an alt on that faction and griefing/teamkilling/getting map intelligence that you are not meant to have.

If the game wanted to support this kind of cross faction switching to gain intelligence and team killing wouldn't they
a) let you reveal the map and radar from another faction with some kind of in game hotkey.
b) allow you to spawn in an enemy factions base so that you can kill the person you are wanting to teamkill without switching character.

When you are playing a faction - play it as it is meant to be played. Don't log on TR or VS characters to support your NC teammates sub-standard play. Play TR but for the TR empire. Play VS but for the VS empire.

Don't blame the render distance for the fact that you countered a perfectly valid tactic by cheating.

[Figment]

ComerEste, if you have a problem with the game, one doesn't take it out on their enemies by griefing. One submits a ticket to technical support, complaints on forums or sense the devs a mail with suggestions an feedback.

"Spying" and "sabotage" as you put it is against the EULA. The rules of war. You bassically broke the player's sportsmanship Geneva Convention.

There are things one simply does not do. If you play on TR, the game indicates who your intended allies and enemies are. If you think it is tolerable, intended as possible reflect on why there is a griefing system that automatically locks weapons if you fire at friendly troops on purpose: note that accidents are okay, but deliberate harassment is strictly against the rules of the game.


You sir, are therefore loathable scum of the earth not just according to the players, but also the game. You deliberately exploit the fact that friendly AA deliberately is not designed to track friendlies to avoid griefing and thus does not track nor detects you as a threat.

But not only are you utter scum, you are also an absolutely crap player for not being able to organise your own counter offensive, even in small scale because of where they are. You are dumb enough to fly straight into a large AA battery repeatedly and even deliberately. Worse, you didn't even try other methods.

Really what did you expect other than loathing and ridicule?

No Comer, not all is fair in a warGAME. Cheating and exploiting is by very definition not fair. Or are you ready to take the next step and download a cheat when you are unable to beat an enemy?

Have you ever considered for a moment they played by the rules and simply deservedly beat you? No, you cry and whine and are such a child that you throw a tantrum rage at defeat and out of a feeling of sheer incompetence and ineptness take the easy way out: you switch empires and try to justify that, rather than becoming more determined and finding legit ways to take them out. You are the equivalent of someone losing a boardgame and throwing the board of the table.


This time it is a warpgate camp you disagree with. Next time you switch sides to scout out enemy positions and movements, destroy 'friendly' spawnpoints, block passage to 'friendlies' at choke points, throw grenades into a 'friendly' held cc, spawncamp a 'friendly' base your buddies try to take without painfield hindrance. You are on a very slippery and unethical and immoral slope. You sir, are on the path to cheating justification, simply because you are too little of a man to accept someone bested you within the game's legit limitations. You should have complimented them on it and try harder or admit defeat, not turn to griefing!

The render problem is an issue yes, but this episode highlights four even bigger problems: empire switching restrictions not being restrictive at all, certainly not with free accounts, vehicles not being restricted to new players, deliberate griefing not being penalized heavily enough and finally players not being mature enough to handle pvp gaming.

[Micro]

Hm... As other ppl have already said, I would not have done what you did. Or wait a second... How can you have two characters on the same server...?

[PredatorFour]

Now some people might be thinking that we're cowards or we're playing cheap, but keep in mind that we only resorted to this to combat a large group of people camping our warp gate.

For camping a warpgate?? Then what about the spawn camping at EVERY base?

Last I checked, espionage and sabotage are legitimate strategies in war.

Yeh good one, but this is a videogame war and when you start crossing that line you start being a dick.

[socksTR]

Wow. You are a real piece of trash. You deserve all the verbal abuse that you get and you should be banned from the game, there is nothing worse than being intentionally killed by your same faction.

I would put you in the same category as hackers.

Filth.

[DovahTerran]

Really, people? This is a game. This is the INTERNET. It was designed so people could trade ideas and knowledge. Not spam each other with hateful comments. That's what parties where in-laws are involved are for.

I kind of agree with what ComerEste was trying to do. I came across a few instances back in my days of PS1 where people sent spies around the different empires to get an edge. It was chaos. To relate this to PS2: The rendering glitches are a real problem. So if that meant taking some unorthodox tactics, so be it. However, I think that we went a little overboard in his execution. He could have easily just gone to another continent or played something else or gone and played the game of Life (which has NO rendering problems ;) )

Am I condoning his griefing? Absolutely not. Am I saying it was WISE to spend money on a new gun to help grief friendlies? In no way. I'm just saying that sometimes you've gotta go a little outside the box to fix a problem. In this case it was unfixable; at least he could have gone about it a little better.

I DO think that we can figure this out without spewing so much crap at each other that we probably would give our dead grandmothers a heart attack, should they read this thread. Great Scot, people. Give it a rest and save it for the REAL filth in life. Not some guy that got a little frustrated at one of the flaws in a game that's completely free.

[yadda]

Great Scot, people. Give it a rest and save it for the REAL filth in life. Not some guy that got a little frustrated at one of the flaws in a game that's completely free.

The issue is with his behavior not the game. Being on the losing team and getting warp gated/near warp gated or spawn camped is obviously not fun. But you know what? Part of any game is losing. Switching factions after losing just to make the winners suffer, while possible, is not part of the game. That's just being a horrible person.

Iv been in his situation several times. Do you know what I did? I switched continents and played elsewhere or took a break. That's what a rational mature adult would do. Clearly being a good sportsman is above a lot of people in this thread.

[Saintlycow]

I have had a few battles against C22, and they seem to be decent guys. I doubt they knew they were exploiting the render issues.

Depending on the way you look at it, it could, yes I did say could, be warranted. Only if you see this as an exploit, which some of us do, and some of us don't.

This "exploit" is ruining the game for some people, and OP decided to stop C22 from inadvertently abusing the exploit. Was OP right in his actions? It really depends on your view. Personally, I believe OP was in the wrong, but I can see his side of the issue.

I'll admit I've switched factions to TK a hacker, yes he was hacking, because no one lands 4 heads shots on a clocked infiltrator with an NC weapon at 200m. 3 times in a row. It's not fair tactics, but this lack of honor may sometimes be warranted. The 50+ NC could have team killed him if they wanted to. I've killed fellow Vanu who were blatantly hacking. It's about looking out for eachother and making it an enjoyable game for everyone.

But this issue is quite different, and I feel the rendering issue is to blame. I've had invisible burster nets kill me, and it's not very fun. I can shoot their position all I want, but they won't take damage until I can see them

Here's my solution. Anything that damages you is immediately rendered. That way, you can fight back

[Donefore]

Look for useropions in your PS2 folder and change the Renderdistance to what ever you want ok

Or get better at the game

DUH

[yadda]

This "exploit" is ruining the game for some people, and OP decided to stop C22 from inadvertently abusing the exploit. Was OP right in his actions? It really depends on your view. Personally, I believe OP was in the wrong, but I can see his side of the issue.

It's not an exploit at all, there is no grey area and should not be surrounded in quotes. It's pretty cut and dry. They were a large group of people playing the game and beating the snot out of the losing enemy the way the game is intended to be played. The game engine being faulty is no right at all to grief others.

Going by his logic I would be totally and completely justified switching factions and TK'ing HA's at the crown for "exploiting" the game and shooting invisible unavoidable rockets at me in my tank. Does this sound fair to them?

Whatever happened to the golden rule? Do they still teach this in school?

[Saintlycow]

It's not an exploit at all, there is no grey area and should not be surrounded in quotes. It's pretty cut and dry. They were a large group of people playing the game and beating the snot out of the losing enemy the way the game is intended to be played. The game engine being faulty is no right at all to grief others.

Going by his logic I would be totally and completely justified switching factions and TK'ing HA's at the crown for "exploiting" the game and shooting invisible unavoidable rockets at me in my tank. Does this sound fair to them?

Whatever happened to the golden rule? Do they still teach this in school?

If you define exploit as anything that was unintended by the developers, then it's an exploit. I don't think that they intended for invisible bursters just outside of the warpgates that cannot be countered.

I noted that teamkilling was not the correct solution to the problem, but that the game engine needs to befixed. Its the red part of my post

[ComerEste]

Look for useropions in your PS2 folder and change the Renderdistance to what ever you want ok

Pretty sure that's modifying game files, I.E. hacking. I will never do that, and to be honest I shouldn't have to. If the option in the game files exists, why isn't there a slider option in game for it? I have "Render Quality" in the graphics options at 100%, but that clearly doesn't affect render distance. And everything else is set to High except "Shadow Quality".

[yadda]

If you define exploit as anything that was unintended by the developers, then it's an exploit. I don't think that they intended for invisible bursters just outside of the warpgates that cannot be countered.

I noted that teamkilling was not the correct solution to the problem, but that the game engine needs to befixed. Its the red part of my post

That's not how you define exploit. An exploit is throwing c4/sticky grenades at spawn doors for kills or dying as a max and logging out/in to respawn as an LA with MAX health. Those are exploits.

Lots of players massing in one area is called playing the game and is not only fully intended but also encouraged and being on the losing side of that game does indeed suck but what ya gonna do? Apparently log on to a character that is friendly to them and begin abusing and sabotaging their play. Spawn camping is part of this game, grinding your enemy to a pulp and kicking them out of your zone is part of this game, zerging them with superior numbers is part of this game. Unfortunately, the game engine cannot handle it all and falls apart. That's not exploiting, it's just a limitation of the engine and the players should not be held accountable or punished for playing as intended.

Switching characters and griefing, while possible, is not a part of the game nor should it be condoned or even rationalized.

[Saintlycow]

That's not how you define exploit. An exploit is throwing c4/sticky grenades at spawn doors for kills or dying as a max and logging out/in to respawn as an LA with MAX health. Those are exploits.

I misread the wikipedia definiton. Anyhow, using wikipedia for actual facts and information isn't the best idea. Silly me

Lots of players massing in one area is called playing the game and is not only fully intended but also encouraged and being on the losing side of that game does indeed suck but what ya gonna do? Apparently log on to a character that is friendly to them and begin abusing and sabotaging their play. Spawn camping is part of this game, grinding your enemy to a pulp and kicking them out of your zone is part of this game, zerging them with superior numbers is part of this game. Unfortunately, the game engine cannot handle it all and falls apart. That's not exploiting, it's just a limitation of the engine and the players should not be held accountable or punished for playing as intended.

They shouldn't be held accountable (The enemy who camp), because they play the game they way it was meant to be played unlike many players. However, I'm fairly sure that ideally, there would be an almost unlimited render distance, and no unrendered and therefor untouchable players would exist. Hopefully they continue to tweak the game and increase render distance.

Switching characters and griefing, while possible, is not a part of the game nor should it be condoned or even rationalized.

Definitively not.

I decided to reply in red

[DovahTerran]

Saintlycow has the right idea here. Like he said, it's an issue of sportsmanship. So the OP did something a tad irrational and something looked down upon by the majority of the PSU community and Planetside at large. He had his reasons. But it was generally a no-no. Big whoop. We all move on. I'd wager there are far more pressing issues regarding the game and its' player base that we could focus on.

The render distance is a problem for everybody. Granted, I have to actually be able to withstand a Yellow alert with more than 3-5 FPS to be able to notice what's killing me anyway, which is another issue for another post/rant. January patch please come faster..

I don't really get the idea of flipping sides. But if there were hackers roving about and the team that housed them didn't have the guts to get rid of them on their own I would definitely take it into my own hands. I did it in PS a few times despite the heinous 12-hour cooldown.

As another posted.. If you get warpgated then just fight on another continent-if you're stuck at the warpgate anyway, logic would dictate that no one is fighting there in the first place and you're wasting your time by sitting there.

All in all? The repeated verbal abuse and straight-up condescension is ridiculous and unnecessary. He (the OP) now gets the point. Along with whoever decides to read this. If we want a philisophical debate then go stick it in the Politics forum.

[Figment]

Pretty sure that's modifying game files, I.E. hacking. I will never do that, and to be honest I shouldn't have to. If the option in the game files exists, why isn't there a slider option in game for it? I have "Render Quality" in the graphics options at 100%, but that clearly doesn't affect render distance. And everything else is set to High except "Shadow Quality".

Changing .ini files isn't hacking. An .ini file is a .txt file with the settings that the game launches with. Tech support often asks you to check the .ini files and make a change in it to see if it boosts one's performance.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

Here's my solution. Anything that damages you is immediately rendered. That way, you can fight back

Or is currently locking on to you.

Look for useropions in your PS2 folder and change the Renderdistance to what ever you want ok

Or get better at the game

DUH



I was under the impression that the rendering thing was unrelated to MAXIMUM render distance.

Also, as a liberator gunner, if I change render distance to a bajillion, will I finally be able to see MAXes before they see me?

[Figment]

I was under the impression that the rendering thing was unrelated to MAXIMUM render distance.

Also, as a liberator gunner, if I change render distance to a bajillion, will I finally be able to see MAXes before they see me?

If I recall correctly, the vehicles have their own rendering distance that's set by the game.

[Yetskii]

WOW...what a asshat. When NC on Mattherson get warpgated like that, we get tanks and attack from both sides, and clear out the offenders...you could have rallied your fellow NC, we do it all the time...

[ComerEste]

WOW...what a asshat. When NC on Mattherson get warpgated like that, we get tanks and attack from both sides, and clear out the offenders...you could have rallied your fellow NC, we do it all the time...

/sigh... another person who only reads the initial post and not all the responses afterwords. I explained several times why this was not an option. The only option that I have already agreed we should've taken was to go to another continent. But even that would've been a band aid because the render problem exists in every major battle, regardless of the continent your on.

[Figment]

Comer, you explained you give up easily and have no problem with exploiting and harassment and find that legit. When I posted I had read the entire thread.


Your attitude only either got worse or confirmating the OP attitude in the remainder of the thread. You still don't want to see that what you did is unacceptable behaviour and completely obscures your render problem argument.

You set yourself up for this and till you realise that what you did is unethically gamey and harassment, you won't find anyone willing to discuss your one actual legit issue.


Just because you can make an account to harass others doesn't mean you are allowed to, or even intended to.


Please think about that carefully.

[ComerEste]

Comer, you explained you give up easily and have no problem with exploiting and harassment and find that legit. When I posted I had read the entire thread.

The simple fact that I keep posting in this thread proves that I don't give up easily. And if I truly have no problem with exploiting and harassment, how is it that turned down one guys offer to modify a game file because I though it was considered hacking or the fact that, even though I have been under personal attack this whole thread, I have not returned fire?

Your attitude only either got worse or confirmating the OP attitude in the remainder of the thread. You still don't want to see that what you did is unacceptable behaviour and completely obscures your render problem argument.

I do see what I did as unacceptable, hence why I said I would never do it again. I knew just making another post about the render problem would probably get buried in the pile of other threads that already exists. I wanted to share my personal experience with everyone in an attempt to get more eyes on the problem. I took a personal risk and sacrificed my reputation because I want this game to get better.

You set yourself up for this and till you realise that what you did is unethically gamey and harassment, you won't find anyone willing to discuss your one actual legit issue.

And yet people have tried discussing it in this thread multiple times. The only reason it hasn't kept being discussed is because some people would rather focus on the TK subject, judging me, and calling me names based off a single event.

Just because you can make an account to harass others doesn't mean you are allowed to, or even intended to.

Agreed, but the only difference between my actions and the actions of the TR in this event is that people disagree with my actions. They are both a type of harassment, they are both a type of griefing, they are both built into the game system, and they are both unintended by developers. I doubt if the developers intended for a group of people to camp a warp gate and be invisible to the people they kill.

Please think about that carefully.

Ditto.

[Figment]

The difference is that the TR did not make an active choice to be invisiblle. They probably don't even know when they render.


Warpgate camping has been a veteran concern ever since early alpha when the devs announced to not have an intercontinental meta game and no way to secure the link by taking the other end of the warpgate link.

Camping has been designed into this game simply due to lack of ps1 player experience and mechanic understanding on behalf of SOE (verant studio came up with the ps1 mechanics) and the rabid PS2 fanboys who tried to block our critiques and fears by stating the devs knew what they were doing.

Truth is they need us to compensate for their lack of experience in non-eq2 and rpg games. Rendering issues were probably deliberately created to ensure air was less competitive with ground units. Possibly air also has bigger render issues since they have a more significant visible area to render.

[Yetskii]

/sigh... another person who only reads the initial post and not all the responses afterwords. I explained several times why this was not an option. The only option that I have already agreed we should've taken was to go to another continent. But even that would've been a band aid because the render problem exists in every major battle, regardless of the continent your on.

Yes you could have.....:eek:

[Hamma]

Probably not the best decision to post this thread.. :lol:

[Rothnang]

I love how many people here think that abusing the hell out of the broken rendering system to kill people who have no chance to shoot back is a stroke of tactical genius.

This game is unfortunately full of people who continually make excuses for any bug, exploit, broken system and unbalanced unit as long as abusing their power takes more than one person.

[ComerEste]

Probably not the best decision to post this thread.. :lol:

I knew what I was getting into, but I felt it was necessary to share the experience so others can learn from my mistake as well as get more eyes on the render issue.

@Figment, after I had rammed them the first time I did receive /tells from 2 of them basically saying the same thing so many others have said on here. But, when I informed them of the reason I was doing it, the render issue, they said they had no idea that was happening. I don't know if that effected the decision for them to leave but about 15 minutes later, they did.

[Rodel]

Hmmm...

My favorite part is the in-game signature... nice touch. ;)