SMGs?

[Palerion]

So I read Higby's update on what to expect in the next patch, and as my greatest concern is generally infantry and infantry weapon balance, the fact that SMGs are being added certainly caught my eye.

So, what do you think (or even know? o.O) these new weapons will be like, and how will they stand out from the rest of our automatic weaponry?

[maradine]

As things are currently balanced, I'm not sure. Two possible options:


Moderate damage, short range, hip-fire spray weapons
Pistol upgrades.


I'm sure there's more, but there's not a ton of room for speculation - I'd just as soon wait for an update.

[Brutal Magikarp]

Close quarters machine gun with smaller clip? Sounds like a carbine

[Palerion]

Close quarters machine gun with smaller clip? Sounds like a carbine

Kinda what I was thinking :P Hopefully SOE has something up their sleeve to make it stand out a bit though.

[VGCS]

Go ahead and Kiss goodbye whatever hopes Infiltrators had of gaining an equal footing in close quarters. ....Unless these things have the weakest headshot modifier of any weapon in the game (but if they were willing to go that far with the balancing, then they might as well give LMGs/Chainguns the same treatment too)

[AThreatToYou]

I'm thinking it's a pistol sidegrade, although we would need at least 2x optics for pistols in order for that to be fair.

My reference is the PS1 AMP pistol. The alternative is that it is the Punisher.

In any case, no one cares, because they won't fix anything.

[Palerion]

I'm thinking it's a pistol sidegrade, although we would need at least 2x optics for pistols in order for that to be fair.

My reference is the PS1 AMP pistol. The alternative is that it is the Punisher.

In any case, no one cares, because they won't fix anything.

What would you want them to fix?

[maradine]

Go ahead and Kiss goodbye whatever hopes Infiltrators had of gaining an equal footing in close quarters. ....Unless these things have the weakest headshot modifier of any weapon in the game (but if they were willing to go that far with the balancing, then they might as well give LMGs/Chainguns the same treatment too)

I don't think infiltrators are supposed to be on equal footing in close quarters. That said, don't discount the possibility SMGs are infil-only weapons. Who knows?

[Sunrock]

Well SMG (Submachine gun) are close quarter weapons in general... It's basically an automatic carbine, designed to fire pistol cartridges. Most famous SMG have to be the Thompson. So no I don't think it's a side grade to the pistol. but maybe. The TEC 9 is a SMG too and that is more a pistol so might be that it is.

[maradine]

The TEC-9 was designed and sold as a handgun. Early, open-bolt models were hackable into a machine pistol at a considerable cost to reliability. Later, closed-bolt models were not.

And while I'm being pedantic, I'll note that carbines are generally short-barreled versions of assault rifles. The Thompson was a bespoke design. It's also a royal pain in the ass to keep on the paper under full auto.

[AThreatToYou]

What would you want them to fix?

Exactly, there's nothing to fix.

[SturmovikDrakon]

I'm more afraid that they will just take the basic AR for each empire, cut it in half, give it the basic animation that every other rifle has and call it an SMG

the gun variety isn't very impressive

watch, they won't even change the magazine to reflect the smaller rounds

(please prove me wrong SOE :( )

[Deadeye]

The advantages to SMGs tend to be their small size, light weight and very high rate of fire. They also tend to have very good accuracy and sustained fire accuracy because of the lighter kick of the small caliber rounds.

So here is what they should be:

Very high rate of fire.
High accuracy and sustained fire accuracy.
Medium to low damage per bullet.
Fast reload and fast equip and/or fast aim-down-sites time.
Short range, fast bullet drop (not for long ranges).
Not suitable beyond like 50 feet.

Pretty much make them great in biolab fights but not for fighting across open ground.

[Memeotis]

I mentioned this in an other post, but I'll say it again

I think the implementation of an SMG requires that SOE adds more stats for us to manipulate on our character, because what makes an SMG distinct is of course it's hip-fire accuracy, but also the relatively high movement-speed when aiming down sights.

In general I think it would be nice if we had more stats to play around with, so that we could feel more unique on the battlefield, and also tinker with the stats to match our play-style. This game would sky-rocket in appeal if players were much more customizable, and it would also make it much easier for SOE to stay true to their promise of sidegrades.

[NewSith]

Light Machine Gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_machine_gun)
Assault Rifle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle)
Carbine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbine)
Personal Defense Weapon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_defense_weapon)
Submachine Gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submachine_gun)


Why now PDWs? ROOOOAAAAR!

[maradine]

Dunno. I happen to be a fan myself. I'm guessing there's not really enough granularity to make a difference in anything but a milsim. If we actually modeled penetration and body armor, it would be a different story.

What would be interesting is limiting tank crews to weapons that actually fit in the fighting compartment, but I'm not sure that would go over well. You know, nanites and such. :)

[bjorntju1]

Probably just a new weapon with a higher rate of fire, and less accuracy, using the same weapon models that are already in the game.

[Rahabib]

my guess is that its mainly for the infiltrator as a pistol side grade. Maybe its for all classes, but my money is that its a pistol upgrade (short clip hopefully).

[Phantomdestiny]

my guess is a main weapon for the infil replacement for the sniper because they want the infil to get new uses so more hacking and cloacking . they showed one of the dev working on the smg during one of the command center videos .

[Nausicaa]

I suspect we are seeing the return of the AMP from PS1

[Killjaeden]

The advantages to SMGs tend to be their small size, light weight and very high rate of fire. They also tend to have very good accuracy and sustained fire accuracy because of the lighter kick of the small caliber rounds.
I don't see why they should have high accuracy (as in bulletspread/COF). Accuracy comes from a gun, and SMG's have no long barrel. They should stand out because of beeing easy to control - low kick like you said. With shorter barrel they shouldn't be more accurate then an assault rifle or LMG... still, looking forward to them. Hopefully they won't all cost another 1000 certs or 7€ (!) which is 9.1$ atm.

[maradine]

Firearm accuracy is not derived from barrel length, but from sight radius. Barrel length does, however, affect muzzle velocity, which is a direct factor in how much windage and gravity effect the round per unit distance.

This is all moot, however. They're trying to find a gameplay niche for them, not necessarily a historical one.

[james]

I don't see why they should have high accuracy (as in bulletspread/COF). Accuracy comes from a gun, and SMG's have no long barrel. They should stand out because of beeing easy to control - low kick like you said. With shorter barrel they shouldn't be more accurate then an assault rifle or LMG... still, looking forward to them. Hopefully they won't all cost another 1000 certs or 7€ (!) which is 9.1$ atm.

Thats not true at all, the SMG is meant for CQC, thats the reason why its common with SWAT teams and other operations that will be inside buildings. SMGs' are extremely accurate.

I don't see the place in this game really, its to much of a situtional weapons.

[Ghoest9]

Maybe it just means a GD-7F/Serpent for everyone.

[Killjaeden]

Thats not true at all, the SMG is meant for CQC, thats the reason why its common with SWAT teams and other operations that will be inside buildings. SMGs' are extremely accurate.
Everything is accurate in CQC... Normally you would zero your assault rifle sight to a distance of 200m, and your Laser& RedDot sight (if you have them) on 50m...
At that distance almost every gun is pinpoint accurate. The reason SMG are sometimes favored is because they are small - having a 1.5m gun in CQB is problematic, easy to control in recoil, and don't inflict more damage then necessary (usually). If you know the bad guy is armored however...

This is all moot, however.
Essentially, yes. I just wanted to... err comment on the "common misconception" cause by videogames.

[Sunrock]

Thats not true at all, the SMG is meant for CQC, thats the reason why its common with SWAT teams and other operations that will be inside buildings. SMGs' are extremely accurate.

I don't see the place in this game really, its to much of a situtional weapons.

Well with the redesigning of some of the bases to be more CQC.... maybe. But I'm not sure I would give up my Cycler TRV for it. :love:

[StumpyTheOzzie]

Well with the redesigning of some of the bases to be more CQC.... maybe. But I'm not sure I would give up my Cycler TRV for it. :love:

As an NC player, I'd be surprised if you did...

Would it be possible that the perma-cloak isn't far away? SMGs would be the new primary for an uberstealth infil and as such, SMGs would only need to be accurate below 10m and start firing many bullets rapidly as soon as the cloak drops. From the hip or ADS doesn't matter.

It's for when they run out of C4

[Killjaeden]

We have shotguns too, and they have a place... so having SMG for cqb (or selfdefense? if you get jumped on as engineer...). Could have faster weapon draw... but that competes with pistols again.

[Blynd]

id rather have a side grade of being able to have 2 pistols on my light assault that would be better then an smg that's going to be similar to the carbines

[Roy Awesome]

http://imgur.com/a/XrepP

Ignore the title of the first picture, I uploaded the wrong one for the title D:

[SturmovikDrakon]

I'm more afraid that they will just take the basic AR for each empire, cut it in half, give it the basic animation that every other rifle has and call it an SMG

the gun variety isn't very impressive

watch, they won't even change the magazine to reflect the smaller rounds

(please prove me wrong SOE :( )




http://imgur.com/a/XrepP

Ignore the title of the first picture, I uploaded the wrong one for the title D:


WELP...

[Palerion]

http://imgur.com/a/XrepP

Ignore the title of the first picture, I uploaded the wrong one for the title D:

Why does the TR one have a stock but carbines don't...?

[Stew]

Close quarters machine gun with smaller clip? Sounds like a carbine

Actually a carbine is a hybrid between a smg and a assault riffle a Mp5 for a exemple is a true SMG the ak74u is the carbine equivalent like a middle range between a standard smg and a Ar .. and a ak-47 is a true Assault riffle

[maradine]

Actually a carbine is a hybrid between a smg and a assault riffle a Mp5 for a exemple is a true SMG the ak74u is the carbine equivalent like a middle range between a standard smg and a Ar .. and a ak-47 is a true Assault riffle

A more specific comparison would be the AKMSU. The 74u and the 47 are actually different calibers.

[DovahTerran]

All in all, I'd like some variety.

So long as I'm dreaming, they could make the bullet drop and damage falloff for SMGs significantly stronger than other weapons so they're almost useless at long range. I can see the hilarity ensuing when you ambush a group of infantry that can't even shoot back. xD

The situation would be reversed when the SMGs are brought to bear up in your face like a in a base fight, or -my personal favorite- sniper hunting.

[KaskaMatej]

The SMGs fire pistol-cartridge rounds. All well on paper but the NC's Mag-Shot does 200 damage per bullet and TR's Repeater does 112 per bullet.

Considering Scout rifles are really useful only at close range (due to fire rate, low magazine size and horizontal recoil) while doing less damage than pistols (they do 143 damage while NC does 200, TR 112 and VS 167), the SMGs would be a direct upgrade compared to Full auto scout rifles.

I don't know how they will balance them without making one other weapon type redundant, I really don't.

[Timealude]

Well if you think about it currently, The TR already have a sort of SMG so as far as infiltrators go they have the best pistol hands down. The SMGs might bring balance to all 3 factions with this regard.

[Ghoest9]

Some one main forums said that SMGs we probably going to be

-high dps with a rapid damage fall off
-no sights
-no COF penalties for moving

Its plausible.

[maradine]

I wound't take one over a shotgun with those traits, but it would be a nice option.

[NewSith]

Some one main forums said that SMGs we probably going to be

-high dps with a rapid damage fall off
-no sights
-no COF penalties for moving

Its plausible.

I wound't take one over a shotgun with those traits, but it would be a nice option.

Dunno, with traits of such kind Light Assault will be rather nasty (noy OP, but quite annolying) with his agility cert and a jetpack. In fact it is going to be an SMGcon from Global Agenda (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4C-ukUdkVQ).

[ShadetheDruid]

Also depends a lot on playstyle, personally i'm not much of a shotgun person and i'd rather have an SMG. More bullets faster means I can make up for my fail accuracy. :p

[Baneblade]

Clearly SMGs will be for Heavy Assaults, so they can have riot shields in one hand and an SMG in the other... Mobile MANA Turret ftw?

Move over Captain Murica!