Feedback on Spotting for Higby

[ringring]

As requested via tweet.

Personally I would remove it.

a) I never spot myself simply because I play left-handed with left on mouse and right on cursor keys. I have to rebind important keys near to the cursors for quick access and spotting comes fairly low down the list after TS, 'g', 'f', up, down and so on.
b) if there is ever a random in my tanks I often hear , enemy XXXXX spotted, but I never see what he's referring to.
c) if I ever do see a red dot on the map and investigate it there is nothing there.

In short, I can't use it in a practical sense and I don't find it useful when other people do.

Maybe some kind of radar may be needed, especially on amp to boost defence, but I'd hesitate to recommend something.

[ShadetheDruid]

I never use it either. The majority of my reasoning for that is I generally play flanky/stealthy/ambushy, and spotting just gives away your position so easily.

I rebound Q to change weapon fire mode instead.

Edit: I should clarify that i'm not against the spotting mechanic itself, just that it doesn't mesh with my usual playstyle (which is fine). Thus, indifference, really.

[musefrog]

I think spotting is very useful - I like receiving warnings from other infantry when on a quietish base defence and the enemy starts attacking again. It helps make up for the lack of enemy troop warnings in the voicemacros too.

Edit: plus, being a not very good player in one-on-one combat, I like at least being useful as a spotter (and getting bits of xp for it too).

[Killjaeden]

You are handicapping yourself if you use the arrow keys - why is that the game's fault? Why not use the Numberpad? plenty of surrounding buttons there. In that position you also have your thumb on the arrow keys for more functions - right handed players have only one key for their thumb and that is the space bar.

If you see a red triangle over an enemy, that's because somebody spotted him. Countless times people only get aware of a sniper in a distant, but obvious spot if someone spots him and others see his triangle.

I do also love if "sneaky" enemies Q-spot all the time, so i can locate them :D

[Timealude]

I used q most the time as an infiltrator since its one of the things we can do best is get a very good visual without being seen. If you were to remove it..remove it for the other classes but by removing it from infiltrator your handicapping a class that in itself isnt extremely powerful to begin with.

[Artesia]

A. make spotting only spot for players nearby, doritos shouldn't show up for someone 1km away

B. make it temporary. If you haven't been spotted in several minutes or you travel far enough, you should have your dorito removed

C. If you fire a weapon it should attempt to auto-spot.

D. spotting should show squad mates direction.


All of the above could be certed/increased by cert ie increased spotting time/range

[Phantomdestiny]

we did speak about photographic spotting back in the day in the idea vault ; not sure if people remember

[RykerStruvian]

I think spotting should be a benefit of owning a particular type of base. Considering how interlink facilities gave you a radar bonus, it only makes some sense to create a new base which would grant that faction who owns it the ability to use spotting.

[maradine]

I love the spotting system, though I'm not sure it's always working as attended. It's a passable substitue for having voice communications with everyone, and is an effective way to pass off targets that you can't handle yourself.

[SexyTRex]

I do feel like spotting should be a lot less for regular soldiers and greatly increased for infiltrators and scout equipment. While I use the IFF device a bit it's not terribly effective since the minimap is a jumbled mess.

[p0intman]

spotting is utterly useless as it stands. id just remove it and be done with the problem.

[NewSith]

If spotting was anything like in BF3, you would've loved it. From every standpoint, starting with functionality, ending with immersion.

Besides the real function of spotting is a way to prevent unlimited sniper spam. With snipers being able to cloak it is even more valid.






PS I am RIGHT handed and I use arrow keys and I have no problems spotting enemies at all.

Move Forward - Up
Move Backwards - Down
Strafe Left - Left
Strafe Right - Right
Use - Enter
Sprint - R Shift
Reload - End
Fire - LMB
Zoom - RMB
Switch Fire Mode - Middle MB
Knife - Side Mouse Button
TeamSpeak - Another Side Mouse Button
Duck - R Ctrl
Jump - Numpad 0
Spot - Numpad 1
Weapon Slot 2 (Primary Weapon) - Numpad 2
Grenade - Numpad 4
Ability - Numpad 5

[james]

The current spotting system is fine. Not much more to be said than that

[Vashyo]

I'd rather have the spotting work automatically, maybe each class has to keep their aim at enemy for 3 seconds. Expect infiltrator could do it in 1 sec, since that's kinda what he's good for.

Right now, it's just tedious use of extra button and I'm quite annoyed at people constantly spotting and yelling ENEMY SPOTTED ENEMY SPOTTED ENEMY SPOTTED ENEMY SPOTTED SPOTTED SPOTTED SPOTTED SPOTTED.

[KaskaMatej]

I would like it that only Infiltrator can spot infantry, and that should be limited to squad only. That would help at Infiltrators to be more than just "snipers" and "hack a terms then change class to something useful" type of things.

It would also help with HE cannons because they can have other means to see infantry (NV and thermal optics), red doritos are just... Retarded...

[Eliphas]

I do feel like spotting should be a lot less for regular soldiers and greatly increased for infiltrators and scout equipment. While I use the IFF device a bit it's not terribly effective since the minimap is a jumbled mess.

Agreed.

[Helwyr]

I agree, removing spotting would be an improvement. I have used Q spam a lot in the past for easily finding targets and sharing that info with friendlies. Since the change that adds the voice I never use it as an Infiltrator when I'm away from friendlies as it just gives my presence away to nearby enemies. So, if as some other posters suggest it ought to be a mostly Infiltrator tool, I would say at present it is least useful to the Infiltrator class and probably most useful to long range Vehicle AE weapons farming Infantry.

[MaxDamage]

OP is nothing but QQ..



..QQQQQQQQ

I enjoy spotting, I think it's a positive feature and is a means for people to contribute to wider teamplay.
If Q only spotted for the individual then I would say ditch it, but since solo farmers risk losing their kill by spotting, and both sides have access to it, it seems only beneficial to me.

I can't understand why someone would have a serious problem with it other than infiltrators.

[Eggy]

A. make spotting only spot for players nearby, doritos shouldn't show up for someone 1km away

B. make it temporary. If you haven't been spotted in several minutes or you travel far enough, you should have your dorito removed

C. If you fire a weapon it should attempt to auto-spot.

D. spotting should show squad mates direction.


All of the above could be certed/increased by cert ie increased spotting time/range
B, C and D are how spotting allready works.
If your not shot, or spotted again with just a few seconds your dorito goes.

Auto spotting is affected by weapon attatchments, muzzle flash and weapon sound. Or did you mean auto-spot the targets you shoot at?

Direction is shown (for infantry) by the spotted icon on the radar being an arrow rather than a dot. You can press "H" to see a bigger radar and thus more spotted targets. This is also an indication of "freshness" of the spot. An arrow is a live, moving visible target and a dot is where something was a few seconds ago. This is it least how I have been unsing the radar.

If you see something on the radar and it isnt moving then there is large chance its a radar ghost due to a bug, or the cloaker tool specificaly designed to add ghosts.

The only thing I would change about spotting is making it so that you cant spot from the bomber slot of a liberator. The rest of the current system I think is fine.

[SeraphC]

spotting is utterly useless as it stands. id just remove it and be done with the problem.

It's really not. It lets someone with an overview of the field pass on positions to team mates. I think it's a really useful and interesting feature and it's fine the way it is. It's one of the few features that actually give us a sense past the simple visual.
Just because you don't use it and/or it doesn't fit your play style does not mean it's useless.

It would be ridiculous without the call out, but with it it's a solid feature.

[MyOdessa]

I find spotting useful, it allows me to have easier target and if I miss or die, other friendlies can see enemy better and take care of him.

On the other hand, if Higby wants to create PS2 servers in hardcore mode i.e. no spotting, no ammo counter, no health regeneration, I am all for it.

[Helwyr]

Bottom line in all this is there is way too much player crutch IFF type mechanics in PS2.

If you really wanted to make scouting and teamwork mean something, you'd get rid of all this Q spam and radar shit. A real scout would be a player that sneaks around providing info on the enemy by reporting the info verbally through his outfit chain of command.

[Rivenshield]

we did speak about photographic spotting back in the day in the idea vault ; not sure if people remember

I'm fine with spotting as is, but that would be an excellent way to refine it.

So would a spotting cert tree for infiltrators. Maybe they could spot moving targets for longer and from farther away, and if you bought the sweet 1000-cert upgrade you could REVEAL ERRYBODY ERRYWHERE like CR5's back in the day.

There has to be *some* role for reconnaissance, after all.

[ShadetheDruid]

If you really wanted to make scouting and teamwork mean something, you'd get rid of all this Q spam and radar shit. A real scout would be a player that sneaks around providing info on the enemy by reporting the info verbally through his outfit chain of command.

That might help scouting and teamwork for outfits. Screw everyone else, I guess? :doh:

[Sunrock]

As requested via tweet.

Personally I would remove it.

a) I never spot myself simply because I play left-handed with left on mouse and right on cursor keys. I have to rebind important keys near to the cursors for quick access and spotting comes fairly low down the list after TS, 'g', 'f', up, down and so on.
b) if there is ever a random in my tanks I often hear , enemy XXXXX spotted, but I never see what he's referring to.
c) if I ever do see a red dot on the map and investigate it there is nothing there.

In short, I can't use it in a practical sense and I don't find it useful when other people do.

Maybe some kind of radar may be needed, especially on amp to boost defence, but I'd hesitate to recommend something.

So you want to remove spotting because:

A) You're lazy
B) You suck
C) A read dot on the mini map is not a spotted enemy. A red triangle on the mini map is a spotted enemy. So you want to remove it because you failed to understand the game mechanics of spotting?

Ok :rolleyes:

PS: Read dots are enemies detected by radar or are revealed because there weapons making to much noise.

[Helwyr]

That might help scouting and teamwork for outfits. Screw everyone else, I guess? :doh:

I'm not in any Outfit FYI.

The fact of the matter with so much effortless IFF like Q spamming there's little need for any real player scouting. Perhaps if there was there would be a role to play in Outfits for players like me who prefer to be sneaking about alone most of the time. However, my main point is that those saying Spotting as it is in game now is some enhancement to teamwork are talking a load of nonsense. All Spotting is currently is a boost to lazy skill-less gameplay.

[Assist]

The current spotting system is fine. Not much more to be said than that

This is how I feel as well, to me it's another one of the many cases where the "Don't fix it if it's not broken" mentality should prevail.

I use it, I like when enemies and allies use it.

[Rothnang]

I like the spotting system. I think people who are sprinting or firing jetpacks should spot automatically when in close proximity, since you should be able to hear them. Sneaking up on someone should require a little more actual stealth and not just making a mad dash for them while their back is turned.

The biggest improvement that I want to see to the spotting mechanic is just more things that actually utilize it. For example mortars for engineers that are capable of indirect fire, but need good spotters to show you where to shoot.

[Babyfark McGeez]

I like two ideas i saw in here, either spotting bein an infiltrator ability (to flesh that class out a bit more) or to tie it to a facility type.

Other then that i'm totally fine with spotting as it is.

[kcirreda]

Easy to learn, it works and has proper incentives. Wouldn't change it.

[Lonehunter]

The way spotting is currently implemented it may as well auto spot everyone within range of you.

If you're gunning and a driver spots something, you can't differentiate it from the zerg spotting. If your squad mate spots something you have no idea, if an outfit mate, friend, every spot is the same.

In my opinion spotting should not be an an empire wide level. If you spot somone only the people in your vehicle, squad, or platoon should see it. Maybe all of the above and a dif color for each one.

If you only made ONE tweak to the current system, please just make the people my squad spots a dif color then the zerg, or a dif logo. Maybe remove the top line in that Dorito triangle

[Dudster]

I like spotting, I considered binding it to the same button is use to aim down the sights. It's especially useful at night when you don't have night vision.

[Peacemaker]

Honestly I think the spotting system is waaaaay too friendly. It totally negates ANY stealth play at all. If your spotted you get a dorito AND minimap marker. Anyone can take those two pieces of information and lay the hammer down. Whats the point of flanking (at anything other than very close range) if it just takes one guy to spot you and then several platoons can know where you are.

Spotting should be made an infil only ability, unless you use your suits utility slot to beable to spot. Spotting should also be limited to platoon only. It should also be LOS limited for the Dorito but not for the minimap. This puts more emphasis on good scouts, and using proxy radar.

Sick of working hard to get a good flanking position only to get raped by 20 guys because ONE guy pressed Q while it took me 5 minutes to get where I got without getting spotted. Unbalanced time vs effort.

[Peacemaker]

Edit: double post plz delete.

[SGTalon]

Very different conversation here on PSU than over on PS2. There it is a bunch of "Me Too" with remove it because i want to camp or it should only be Infiltrators.

This discussion came up during Beta. Tons of people were saying that it gives away too much. I notice that no one is talking about what it really is, why spotting is part of the game.

The invention of the Holographic Sight came about for military aircraft sights back in WW2. Over time it has progressed to being more and more accurate with more and more information. In the 70's it moved to being an active targetting reticle that not only showed range to the target but adding additional information about the target.

Current gen Vehicle Huds are amazingly detailed. They can pick out and highlight targets, have Friend or Foe identification down to the type of target it is.

All of this stuff is moving into Infantry combat too. Everything that you see on Game Huds for infantry they are putting into the Next Gen Military Uniforms. They are working on Wearable computers with HUD equipped Goggles that will show things like GPS information, Combat Information, Tactical Information, Targetting information... basically everything that we are seeing in the HUD that is in Game right now. The military sees this as completely necessary information to increase the capability and effectiveness of the soldier.

Why in the world would we want to go backwards? This game is set in a future where we have Nanite spawn tubes that regenerate your body, vehicles that are created on request in seconds, heck we have vehicles that can negate the effects of gravity!

So 3d Spotting is out of line? How? Half of the complaints of the game are talking about a lack of communication and coordination on the battlefield, and too many people are wanting to take us back to Battlefield 1942. I thought we were trying to make this game something more than that.

I have recently read a book series that involved big advances in power armor technology. It went in depth on the entire idea, theory and how to maximize the capabilities of personal HUD. Basically it went into detail on how a HUD computer system has the ability to totally overwhelm people in information it they are not trained to use it properly.

I would love to increase the capabilities of the 3D spotting system through Certs.

How about a cert that gives up shield generator for the ability to jam or trick the enemy HUD. Each level removes one more item, Range, Health, the Dorito color, the whole Dorito, and Stealth to Infrared.

Conversely, you can have a Cert that Counters this skill tree. SO if you are really interested in combatting the whole 3D spot thing you can invest in it with a trade off from your armor levels.

Right now you can buy Ski Goggles that have complete smart phone integration, Caller ID, MP3 control and info, GPS info with speed, direction, altitude, waypoints and turn by turn Navigation. They are only about $500! This is all current technology.

SO please before deciding to remove features from the game that actually contribute to the great gameplay, think about both sides.

I really hate that so many people think that the solution to a perceived problem is remove it!!

[Ghoest9]

Its not very useful over all.

1 It uses the same markers for vehicles as for infantry - its confusing seeing the markers from tanks 1-2 thousand meters away in the middle of a fire fight.

2 The enemy hears you say it(which I like because it often warns me when Im spotted.)

3 It usually just makes a lot of useless noise.

4 the few times it really is useful enemies lose the markers by dodging behind rocks etc as they move.

EDIT:
Also spotting has been terrible for us color blind people because enemies look like squad mates - but that issue should go away with the next patch fortunetly.

[Peacemaker]

Edit: Holy crap triple post.

[Helwyr]

Higby remove spotting and remove Vehicle Radar they are both bad gameplay because they take away player actions and ability out of the equation of gameplay outcomes.

These sorts of mechanics are IMO on the same level as aimbots. You're asking the mechanics to detect and identify targets for you, and that's no different than asking for game mechanics to aim for you. The only difference is the aspect of player ability reduced or fully taken out of gameplay.

IR/Thermal is not much better either and ought to be removed. It's just a cool looking feature it doesn't actually improve actual gameplay, it makes it worse.

If you want Spotting add a laser targeting device that must be aimed by an Infantry player that highlights a single target like current thermal and radar does for everyone in that player's squad...But only for as long as the player holds the laser device on the target. This form of spotting would require teamwork and real player ability, unlike what you currently have in game.

[SilverAura]

I find it useful compared to what we had in PlanetSide 1 which allowed anyone to scream out "Incoming <blank>!!" whenever they wanted.

Especially when you're in your own base and everything seems quiet, when you hear someone yell out that they've spotted someone, you know they actually had to see someone to make the call. So it's never a false alarm. Even if the person is killed before you see them, it still wasn't technically a false alarm, you were just late.

This is particularly useful for things like MAX units or tanks. And having found out a bit later than I'm embarrassed to admit, that spotting plants a blip on the map as long as you keep them in sight, I found spotting to be incredibly useful when other people do it so I try to do it every chance I get.

However I must say, I find spotting to be most useful when I'm flying in a scythe and I see a common pool unit like a Sunderer, Lightning, or Liberator, and lighting conditions aren't making it clear what empire it is, nor is text showing up indicating that it was at least friendly. If I'm close enough and press the spot key, it forces red text over the vehicle if it's an enemy.

By far the most useful time I found to use it. I can't tell you how many times I've accidentally unleashed hell on a poor friendly Sunderer parked in the shadows, only to find out after 8+ photon pods were fired, that it was actually ours. :(

[Mordelicius]

Spotting is very useful and helpful to me. I don't know what Higby's getting into but please, don't fix it if it's not broken.

Spotting rewards those always on the lookout by tagging non-friendly units. It's not only helpful in warning players of Aircraft about to bomb hapless infantry or Sunderers rushing to a base, but it also aids in marking sneaky Infiltrators and Light Assault.

If there's an Infiltrator sniping on top of a cliff or a tall structure, tag them. If there's a LA about to blindside friendlies, spotting is invaluable.

If other players don't want to use it, then it won't hurt them not to.

[Helwyr]

[...]don't fix it if it's not broken.


It is broken.

[SGTalon]

It is broken.

It's not broken, you just don't like it. Some people are just resistant to technology.

[Flipzide]

Spotting is fine as is. I enjoy using it to spot enemies for my squad. Then again, I also enjoy playing BF3.

I'm genuinely surprised there's even an issue. More people should use it. On top of helping out the squad, you get XP for a spot assist.

[Peacemaker]

Spotting is very useful and helpful to me. I don't know what Higby's getting into but please, don't fix it if it's not broken.

Spotting rewards those always on the lookout by tagging non-friendly units. It's not only helpful in warning players of Aircraft about to bomb hapless infantry or Sunderers rushing to a base, but it also aids in marking sneaky Infiltrators and Light Assault.

If there's an Infiltrator sniping on top of a cliff or a tall structure, tag them. If there's a LA about to blindside friendlies, spotting is invaluable.

If other players don't want to use it, then it won't hurt them not to.

Yeah? What if your that sneaky LA who worked hard to get into position? Your going to feel robbed. This IS broken. and as an above poster said, it takes away from actual player skill. Its the same principle as aircraft vs all others. Easy to see because they are highly visible, this makes them focus fire priorities.

This game already favors the swarm mechanics that are employed by outfits such as The Enclave. Out played by them? Out number them! Current spotting mechanics just make it easier for the zerg mentality to exist. You cannot argue this, its pretty damn obvious. If I have a chance to sway a battle by my self I should have it. It shouldn't be taken away by someone spamming Q allowing the numbers to have yet ANOTHER advantage against the out numbered.

[Helwyr]

It's not broken, you just don't like it. Some people are just resistant to technology.

Some people are resistant to common sense and only selectively use "technology" and "Real World" examples where it suits their wishes.

But who knows perhaps eventually we'll have game mechanics available in PS2 that just play the whole game for you. Woot Technology! :rolleyes:

[Stadulator]

A. make spotting only spot for players nearby, doritos shouldn't show up for someone 1km away

B. make it temporary. If you haven't been spotted in several minutes or you travel far enough, you should have your dorito removed

C. If you fire a weapon it should attempt to auto-spot.

D. spotting should show squad mates direction.


All of the above could be certed/increased by cert ie increased spotting time/range

I like every one of these

[Mordelicius]

It is broken.
Ok, please explain in detail how it is broken? I'm VERY sure Light Assaults want it removed so they can trololol sprint, jetpack, ninja kill, disappear on an on an on. :doh:

The units that stand to benefit the most from removing spotting:

- Light Assault
- Infiltrator
- Aircraft
- Sunderer

Units that will get hurt the most without spotting:
- Medic
- Engineers

Both are already free kills as it is. Sure, remove spotting. Remove Jet Packs and Stealth as well. :lol:

[Beerbeer]

Higby sure has his priorities straight.

"Let's set top sail, don't worry about the hole on the starboard side of the ship, it's really not there."

[Peacemaker]

Very different conversation here on PSU than over on PS2. There it is a bunch of "Me Too" with remove it because i want to camp or it should only be Infiltrators.

This discussion came up during Beta. Tons of people were saying that it gives away too much. I notice that no one is talking about what it really is, why spotting is part of the game.

The invention of the Holographic Sight came about for military aircraft sights back in WW2. Over time it has progressed to being more and more accurate with more and more information. In the 70's it moved to being an active targetting reticle that not only showed range to the target but adding additional information about the target.

Current gen Vehicle Huds are amazingly detailed. They can pick out and highlight targets, have Friend or Foe identification down to the type of target it is.

All of this stuff is moving into Infantry combat too. Everything that you see on Game Huds for infantry they are putting into the Next Gen Military Uniforms. They are working on Wearable computers with HUD equipped Goggles that will show things like GPS information, Combat Information, Tactical Information, Targetting information... basically everything that we are seeing in the HUD that is in Game right now. The military sees this as completely necessary information to increase the capability and effectiveness of the soldier.

Why in the world would we want to go backwards? This game is set in a future where we have Nanite spawn tubes that regenerate your body, vehicles that are created on request in seconds, heck we have vehicles that can negate the effects of gravity!

So 3d Spotting is out of line? How? Half of the complaints of the game are talking about a lack of communication and coordination on the battlefield, and too many people are wanting to take us back to Battlefield 1942. I thought we were trying to make this game something more than that.

I have recently read a book series that involved big advances in power armor technology. It went in depth on the entire idea, theory and how to maximize the capabilities of personal HUD. Basically it went into detail on how a HUD computer system has the ability to totally overwhelm people in information it they are not trained to use it properly.

I would love to increase the capabilities of the 3D spotting system through Certs.

How about a cert that gives up shield generator for the ability to jam or trick the enemy HUD. Each level removes one more item, Range, Health, the Dorito color, the whole Dorito, and Stealth to Infrared.

Conversely, you can have a Cert that Counters this skill tree. SO if you are really interested in combatting the whole 3D spot thing you can invest in it with a trade off from your armor levels.

Right now you can buy Ski Goggles that have complete smart phone integration, Caller ID, MP3 control and info, GPS info with speed, direction, altitude, waypoints and turn by turn Navigation. They are only about $500! This is all current technology.

SO please before deciding to remove features from the game that actually contribute to the great gameplay, think about both sides.

I really hate that so many people think that the solution to a perceived problem is remove it!!

Being technologically accurate does not make good game play mechanics. Just because other games have done it in the past does not mean we should have it in our games in the future. Argument is irreverent because this is a video game for FUN. NOT a real life R&D project aimed at decimating opponents.

[Peacemaker]

Ok, please explain in detail how it is broken? I'm VERY sure Light Assaults want it removed so they can trololol sprint, jetpack, ninja kill, disappear on an on an on. :doh:

The units that stand to benefit the most from removing spotting:

- Light Assault
- Infiltrator
- Aircraft
- Sunderer

Units that will get hurt the most without spotting:
- Medic
- Engineers

Both are already free kills as it is. Sure, remove spotting. Remove Jet Packs and Stealth as well. :lol:

And LA and Infils are the most gimped classes out there currently. Sundies are pretty easy to track down by the team. Aircraft are massively visible to everyone already, if you need a little red triangle to see them your just blind.

[Sunrock]

Well this QQ threads about spotting was mad before the game was released too and they have not changed it yet. And there are no reason to change it.

If you think you die too mush because you get spotted then you're wrong, its not because your spotted it's because you suck.

[Sunrock]

And LA and Infils are the most gimped classes out there currently. Sundies are pretty easy to track down by the team. Aircraft are massively visible to everyone already, if you need a little red triangle to see them your just blind.

Come on you can't come here and throw in infiltrators in the mix there regarding spotting. Every time an infiltrator is using his cloaking device he also removes any spot mark he might have on him and you can't spot a cloaked player.

Besides if you think LA and Infiltrators are gimped you need to learn how to play.

[Helwyr]

Ok, please explain in detail how it is broken?

I already have. Planetside is supposed to be a game where player ability is what wins fights it's not meant to be a Sci Fi WoW.

Spotting in PS2 (and other mechanics like Radar) create mechanics that replace the need for player ability, it does the work for you. It's on the same level as an Aimbot, the Aimbot takes away your need as a player to be able to aim your weapon, spotting and radar takes away your need as a player to detect and identify enemy players.

Everyone has their gameplay preferences, heck a lot of people like games like WoW or games that require no player effort of skill whatsoever. It's not for me to tell you what to enjoy. But be under no illusions those of you that are saying spotting is great and should stay are on the side of making PS2 less about player skill.

[Sunrock]

I already have. Planetside is supposed to be a game where player ability is what wins fights it's not meant to be a Sci Fi WoW.

Spotting in PS2 (and other mechanics like Radar) create mechanics that replace the need for player ability, it does the work for you. It's on the same level as an Aimbot, the Aimbot takes away your need as a player to be able to aim your weapon, spotting and radar takes away your need as a player to detect and identify enemy players.

Everyone has their gameplay preferences, heck a lot of people like games like WoW or games that require no player effort of skill whatsoever. It's not for me to tell you what to enjoy. But be under no illusions those of you that are saying spotting is great and should stay are on the side of making PS2 less about player skill.

This post deserves 5 :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: for being that super extremely exaggeration.

[Micro]

As an infiltrator, when sniping, I just spam the 'Q'-key all the time. Especially at nights. Let's me know where the enemies are (if it's dark, and I can't see em').
Also, spottng aircraft qnd tanks gives you some XP when they're destroyed... ;)

[Helwyr]

This post deserves 5 :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: for being that super extremely overexerting.

Here Sunrock for completely failing to refute what I said you can have all of these :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: and a few of these :huh::huh:

[basti]

Its broken, completly.

Im just running around, always pressing Q. There is no downside, no reason not to spam Q all the time.

So, i say, Q needs to go away, completly. Let spotting be made by Infiltrators with their tool and vehicles with the radar thing. Give Galaxys a gigantic avacs like dish to spot in a large area.

That would be much more fun, and make stuff like flashlights and nightvision useful during the night again, as you cant just spot to see...

[Sunrock]

Here Sunrock for completely failing to refute what I said you can have all of these :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: and a few of these :huh::huh:

Really you think there is any argument needed to try to prove you wrong over what you sad? Do you also need prof that the earth is not flat too? :rolleyes:

My god! You're one of the biggest troll I seen on this forum.

[Helwyr]

Really you think there is any argument needed to try to prove you wrong over what you sad? Do you also need prof that the earth is not flat too? :rolleyes:

My god! You're one of the biggest troll I seen on this forum.

You haven't added anything to this thread beyond stamping your feet and telling other people they're wrong. Make a real reasoned argument, quit your denial that you want to take an aspect of player skill out of the game, or just admit it's you who's the troll here.

[VGCS]

I used spotting CONSTANTLY. It's basically your only hope of subsidizing the horribly low Cert-per-Hour ratio that most Infiltrators have to settle for. Seeing someone start a thread just to put it down, makes me a saaaad cloaker.

:doh:

Knowing Higby will never read this thread however makes me feel a little relieved however... Besides that, he already said at one point he had plans to give INFs a longer lasting "Spot" that broadcasts to the entire area. I'd call that a good first start but to really make it something that people like the OP would use... (hey I'm left handed too buddy! I don't make excuses, I make up my OWN CONTROL schemes and even use a Gamepad + Macros to overcome my "disadvantage" until I've got an even better setup than the Righties get).

...it definitely needs expansion of the following kinds of ideas:

Location target was spotted at becomes a "Red Dorito" that shows up THROUGH walls/terrain for other allies instead of just being a useless tiny dot on the minimap
^Apply the same effect to the INF's dart gun while they're at it plz (but NOT to vehicle scout radar)
INFs and LA's who spot Aircraft, inflict a compounding decrease in Bullet/Turret Resistance those aircraft have making them more vulnerable to all ground based fire support.
Disable spotting for all Aircraft occupants that are using NV/Thermal since they already have too many advantages at that point as it is.
Double the lock-on speed for friendly Guided Rockets against any Vehicles spotted by an Infiltrator.

Lastly and requiring the most resources... Give INF's a Laser attachment for all their Rifles that causes all Dumbfire Rockets & Artillery to travel twice as fast when aimed at the Infiltrator's "Painted Target". (this is balanced by the fact that the Infiltrator is waving a hugemongous "HERE I AM" laser all over the battlefield. ...and make this completely REPLACE Smedley's awful skill-murdering plans of copying Orbital/Airstrikes from stupid ass C.O.D.



Maybe incorporate a lot of what Basti said as well... he makes a good argument.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

I'd rather have the spotting work automatically, maybe each class has to keep their aim at enemy for 3 seconds. Expect infiltrator could do it in 1 sec, since that's kinda what he's good for.

Right now, it's just tedious use of extra button and I'm quite annoyed at people constantly spotting and yelling ENEMY SPOTTED ENEMY SPOTTED ENEMY SPOTTED ENEMY SPOTTED SPOTTED SPOTTED SPOTTED SPOTTED.

So my G-15 keyboard with a "Q twice a second" macro would upset you to be around then?

Before anybody calls hax (or whatevs) it's automating a thing I already do 'all the time' anyway. I'm reducing wear and tear on my ring finger and keyboard with this, not actually doing anything more or less.

[VGCS]

Considering that you also light up like a Christmas Tree everytime you spot a target... I wouldn't call that the smartest use of current resources....

[infinite loop]

Hardly an issue that should even be given consideration compared to the massive flaws in the game. That said, spotting is probably the worst goddamned mechanic ever added to an fps game. It caters to the lowest common denominator and rewards people who have zero situational awareness. Get rid of it.

[Sunrock]

Well all this BS about spotting taking out player skill aside. There is one good reason to leave it in and that is to avoid team killings. Hell most of the time I can see and I think we all can see where some one is but not what faction he belongs to. If there was not for spotting in this game I would have team killed a hell allot more players then I have now. Now main reason I team kill some one was because I did not manage to stop my vehicle in time because some infantry run out in front of me.

But if you so worried about the spamming of spoting 24/7 PS2 can do what BF3 did. Give spotting a 10 sec cooldown. But as this game has a bit more players then 32 Vs 32 players. I have seen 3 way fights where there have been more like 100 vs 100 vs 100. 10 cooldown might be too long but a 3-5 sec cooldown for PS2 might do the trick to stop some one to macro spotting.

[Sunrock]

Before anybody calls hax (or whatevs) it's automating a thing I already do 'all the time' anyway. I'm reducing wear and tear on my ring finger and keyboard with this, not actually doing anything more or less.

You can call it what you want but using any 3rd party program to automate anything even if it's built in to your keyboard or mouse is still a banable offense so if I where you I would not go around telling people I use it.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

Considering that you also light up like a Christmas Tree everytime you spot a target... I wouldn't call that the smartest use of current resources....

I roll in libs. What you gonna do?

You can call it what you want but using any 3rd party program to automate anything even if it's built in to your keyboard or mouse is still a banable offense so if I where you I would not go around telling people I use it.

I've proven in the past I'm an arrogant dick on these forums. In order to get banned I'd hope they can prove that I'm hacking or using 3rd party programs. You can't just take my word for it. Maybe I'm a liar as well as an arrogant dick? Maybe I mean "Someone I know" but I'm saying "me" just to sex it up and make myself look cool and edgy.

[Gatekeeper]

Spotting works fine as it is, it's useful, doesn't break the game and has some fun downsides in terms of giving your own position away.

There are definitely some improvements that could be made though:

1) Allow Infiltrators to spot at longer range than other classes (cert?).
2) Give Infiltrators some kind of option to spot silently (but with some kind of other downside - reduced range, or require special equipment or certs?)
3) Mark infantry, vehicles, air vehicles and turrets with different spot markers.

And most important of all: add in old-school voice macros for calling out enemies, and make their callouts distinct from the spotting ones.

If I spot an aircraft then "aircraft spotted" or something is fine, but "incoming enemy aircraft!" should be a macro I activate manually. That way I can alert people nearby of a particular threat, and they can tell the difference between that and me spotting a flier a mile away. This would also let me run around spamming "hostile cloaker nearby!" when I know there is one but can't spot him because he's cloaked ;)

[musefrog]

Great suggestions, Gatekeeper.

For those protesting that spotting reduces the impact of individual skill, yes, it does, a bit. In return, it increases teamwork a little. It's a tradeoff. If you're a highly-skilled player who works well solo, I can understand why you wouldn't like spotting. But as a less skilled player, I like it, as I'm able to pass warnings to my more skilled teammates.

So from my perspective, if you want to remove spotting, you'll be reducing teamwork (or making it more difficult).

[MaxDamage]

Spotting should stay.

[MacXXcaM]

I'd like spotting to either be removed completely or make it 2D spotting --> markers on the mini map.

Also I'd like to completely put away with the colored triangles either blue or red on players and vehicles. It's just immersion killing.

[BlaxicanX]

Some of the exaggerating going on in this thread is ridiculous.

It's so incredibly easy to fix spotting that it being removed is just a knee-jerk reaction.

How to fix spotting

1. In order to spot a target, the target must take up X% of the spotter's cross-hairs. That way, the further away an object is, the harder it is to spot. It also means that you can't spot objects you can't see. Since vehicles are much bigger than infantry, it also means that they would be easier to spot from a distance, which is logical.

How hard is this to implement? Shouldn't be too difficult. I'm no expert in programming, but an example of the trigger would be "Is target filling 30% of retical? Yes, spot. No, don't spot."

2. Make it so that the only people (and vehicles) who can spot during the night-cycle are people using NV scopes (must be ADS in order to spot with one) and people with flash-lights. It's night, it's darkness. This should be the prime opportunity go sneaking around and such. When it's night time I want to feel like someone might pop out at any moment.

How hard is this to implement?Not hard at all. The only difficult aspect I guess would be that you should be able to spot as normal indoors, since there's lighting. In that case, I guess that the same coding that prevents Sunderers from deploying within X distance from other sunderers or buildings could be used so that you can spot targets so long as they're within X distance of a light-source (or building, for simplicity).

3. Remove all the extra information you get from spotting, and have the dorito break if you lose LoS to the spotted object. There's no logical reason for why you can tell how many people are inside a sunderer just by looking at it. Similarly, its health bar shouldn't pop up unless you're aiming directly at it with your targeting reticule. When an object is spotted, only the dorito above it's head should be displayed, and the type/class should be called out.

The dorito should follow the target as it moves, for the sake of simplicity (if the dorito only hovered over where the object was last seem, you'd run into the problem of there being 50 dorito's in the air after 12 people spot the same guy), but that marker should disappear or simply not appear to anyone who doesn't have, or loses, direct LoS to the spotted target.

How hard is this to implement? Not hard at all.

4. Tanks (Sunderers count under this category) can only spot other vehicles, infantry and aircraft can spot everything. Aircraft spamming the spot function is already solved by solution #1 above- they'll be moving too fast, and will be too far away most of the time, to be able to spot infantry reliably, but should have no problem with spotting vehicles, which makes sense. Aircraft are designed to provide overwatch, so while they may not be able to spot as well as infantry, they shouldn't be gimped entirely. For tanks, there is no reason for them to be able to spot infantry. You already have infantry on the ground to spot and fight infantry, tanks are supposed to rely on infantry for situational awareness, and focus primarily on bombarding enemy positions and destroying other tanks. Preventing tanks from being able to spot infantry creates a more balanced synergy between them and infantry, forcing the tank to rely on infantry to spot threats and the like.

How hard is this to implement into the game? Not very hard at all.

- - - - -

So there you have it. Four (relatively) simple solutions toward making the spot-function balanced, but still useful.

[Emperor Newt]

There are several issues I have with it:

- Useless for close up due to the shouting giving your position away. Surely intended but this makes forward scouts to give positions kinda useless. You have to rely on snipers on elevated positions and hope that infantry is still in render distance
- too easy to use -> spamable
- Arrow that follows the player makes them too easy targets. I would like to see something more in the lines of Tribes Ascend where the arrow sticks for a second at the position the enemy was and does not follow them
- I also mildly dislike that everybody can spot, especially with the current accuracy that spotting works with. Maybe make 3D /stanard only 2d spotting) spotting a cert or/and introduce a cert that makes you harder to spot.

[ringring]

I've proven in the past I'm an arrogant dick on these forums. In order to get banned I'd hope they can prove that I'm hacking or using 3rd party programs. .

They don't need to prove all they need is evidence, which you have just provided.

[MacXXcaM]

There are several issues I have with it:

- Arrow that follows the player makes them too easy targets. I would like to see something more in the lines of Tribes Ascend where the arrow sticks for a second at the position the enemy was and does not follow them

THIS!

[IamEternal]

Personally I love spotting. As an Infiltrator, I dont normally spot anything because I am to busy popping other Infiltrators or Heavies, but I have the best view of the battlefield usually so if I come across a Sunderer parked outside behind cover, I spot it so my team can move in and take it out before we get over run. I would like to see one change to it though; as an Infiltrator, I will never just start yelling anything. If we are supposed to be so advance why cant my Infiltrator just put it over comms? It makes no sense that a stealth unit behind enemy lines spotting as going to start shouting at the top of his lungs. I also think someones should only stay spotted as long as they dont move or the spotter is able to maintain visual contact. If you move out of my field of vision then I can no longer confirm your location and You become hidden again.

/mytwocents.

[Canaris]

as others have said the line of sight spotting we have now is fine and works well, the only thing I find strange is that they coded it so enemies can hear you when spotting, it should be faction private.

[Kerrec]

I've put in several hundred hours into BF3, and I spot reflexively. I've had many situations in PS2 where I'm trying to position myself behind some enemies that don't know I'm there so I can take out a medic first, or get by something I can use as cover before I open fire. Yet I stupidly and automatically spot them, alerting them to their danger. Spotting has a drawback, and I wholeheartedly approve of that. I've also been in situations where I'm pinned or being pursued by something I can't handle on my own, like a MAX. They already know I'm there, so my character yelling out "Enemy MAX spotted" is irrelevant. But by doing so, friendly forces, not necessarily in my squad or platoon, can get me out of a bad predicament. So spotting has its uses.

What I don't like, is vehicles being able to spot from far away and ligthing up a whole bunch of doritos so they can use their long range/large splash damage weapons to farm. Spotting from long range, especially in a vehicle, overpowers them.

What I would change:

1) Implement a minimum range to be able to spot.
2) Give some class, or all classes, the ability to cert into a tree that increases this minimum range, if they want it. This cert tree would not apply while in a vehicle. Maybe give Infiltrators new scopes that allow them the ability to spot over very long distances.
3) I like the idea above that enemies can only be spotted at night by people ADS with NV/Thermal scopes.
4) I also like the idea that the whole ability to spot is linked to a facility that can be denied to my enemies.

In my eyes, this would vastly improve the HE vehicle spam problem. When a vehicle doesn't even know WHERE to shoot because he can't just spam Q, then a large portion of the air game can be balanced without nerfing weapons or AA vs. Air balance. Libs especially would become precision tools for organized play, instead of farming platforms.

[Legolas]

If makes the game less fun for me, turning PS2 into a game of "shoot the red triangles".

It feel like a poor man's radar hack.

[typhaon]

Spotting is fine - like others have said, just kill the audio that your enemy can hear.

[DaPope]

I would love to increase the capabilities of the 3D spotting system through Certs.

How about a cert that gives up shield generator for the ability to jam or trick the enemy HUD. Each level removes one more item, Range, Health, the Dorito color, the whole Dorito, and Stealth to Infrared.

Conversely, you can have a Cert that Counters this skill tree. SO if you are really interested in combatting the whole 3D spot thing you can invest in it with a trade off from your armor levels.

SO please before deciding to remove features from the game that actually contribute to the great gameplay, think about both sides.

I really hate that so many people think that the solution to a perceived problem is remove it!!

Outstanding post!

Personally for me any game that doesn't have a system of spotting enemies is severly handicapped. It allows such a great amount of coordination and communication. The individual can now highlight targets for the entire population. It is also a great way for infantry to be able to highlight armor and get support.

This is one of the best tools in the game and something I think will have a major negitive impact if removed.

In the previous posts I think people made some great points about adding Certs that would enhance your spotting and certs that could be use to counter spotting.

[Towe]

Imo 2 sec cooldown and its fixed...

[Aaron]

Its broken, completly.

Im just running around, always pressing Q. There is no downside, no reason not to spam Q all the time.

Yup, pretty much this. I Q spam ridges and use it for night vision when I can't see enemies. Just press Q and I've put a tacking beacon on them. Needs a major change or needs to go.

[Chaff]

To those that accept it or even like it - I essentially concur.

To those that don't, I am sorry. I see it as a necessary evil. Like the guy who has photoned his own empire sundy by mistake. Without doritos, we'd be shooting in the dark. Or, we'd spend an inordinate amount of time getting close enough to "see" someones uni.
Without spotting, a high percentage of us would be shooting the wrong empire far too often. THAT would NOT be better gameplay.
I like the guys idea to add certs to counter getting dorito'd.

[Kerrec]

To those that accept it or even like it - I essentially concur.

To those that don't, I am sorry. I see it as a necessary evil. Like the guy who has photoned his own empire sundy by mistake. Without doritos, we'd be shooting in the dark. Or, we'd spend an inordinate amount of time getting close enough to "see" someones uni.
Without spotting, a high percentage of us would be shooting the wrong empire far too often. THAT would NOT be better gameplay.
I like the guys idea to add certs to counter getting dorito'd.

Should always be able to see your factions soldiers on the field. That makes sense. That way you can be sure that if it moves and isn't friendly, it's an enemy.

The thing is, if you're way up in the sky and can't SEE an enemy, spotting in a general area shouldn't light him up and establish a target for you to shoot at. In that respect, spotting is game breaking.

[SGTalon]

Spotting is fine - like others have said, just kill the audio that your enemy can hear.

The audio is the tradeoff for teh spotting ability. Everything has a trade off in PS2 by design. You want something that has a desired effect, you have to give something else up. I think it is a good way to balance it. Sure you can put target information on a guy but now people know you are right in that room where you were hiding.

I don't really see a need to change it from the way it is.

[Chaff]

Why cant a guy in air share intel to, or from, the ground ? PS2 takes place in the future. Shared intel-communication would seem to be a no-brainer. Eventually, we must learn to duck-and-cover quicker. Air gets easily spotted. WHen infantry is spotted, they have the tools to share that info. ALL three empires have the SAME ABILITY. We're all spotting each other. How can this be imbalanced ?
When air moves in for easy kills, it's time to look to nearest terminal to pull or equip some sort of AA counter(s). If the opposing forces numbers are too large to overcome - sucks for you. Sometimes we pown, Sometimes we get powned.

[Soothsayer]

Spotting is good. Eliminating the call out that enemies can hear would not be good, that's one of the main balances against it being totally without risk.

I use it against enemies but I also use it to identify whether something is friendly.

I don't think Sunrock is just aggressively spouting off, he's made valid points.

I'd say if you wanted to make spotting have a cost you could have the spotter get the dorito as well. Reciprocity. I dunno though, maybe not such a great idea.

[BlaxicanX]

Some of the exaggerating going on in this thread is ridiculous.

It's so incredibly easy to fix spotting that it being removed is just a knee-jerk reaction.

How to fix spotting

1. In order to spot a target, the target must take up X% of the spotter's cross-hairs. That way, the further away an object is, the harder it is to spot. It also means that you can't spot objects you can't see. Since vehicles are much bigger than infantry, it also means that they would be easier to spot from a distance, which is logical.

How hard is this to implement? Shouldn't be too difficult. I'm no expert in programming, but an example of the trigger would be "Is target filling 30% of retical? Yes, spot. No, don't spot."

2. Make it so that the only people (and vehicles) who can spot during the night-cycle are people using NV scopes (must be ADS in order to spot with one) and people with flash-lights. It's night, it's darkness. This should be the prime opportunity go sneaking around and such. When it's night time I want to feel like someone might pop out at any moment.

How hard is this to implement?Not hard at all. The only difficult aspect I guess would be that you should be able to spot as normal indoors, since there's lighting. In that case, I guess that the same coding that prevents Sunderers from deploying within X distance from other sunderers or buildings could be used so that you can spot targets so long as they're within X distance of a light-source (or building, for simplicity).

3. Remove all the extra information you get from spotting, and have the dorito break if you lose LoS to the spotted object. There's no logical reason for why you can tell how many people are inside a sunderer just by looking at it. Similarly, its health bar shouldn't pop up unless you're aiming directly at it with your targeting reticule. When an object is spotted, only the dorito above it's head should be displayed, and the type/class should be called out.

The dorito should follow the target as it moves, for the sake of simplicity (if the dorito only hovered over where the object was last seem, you'd run into the problem of there being 50 dorito's in the air after 12 people spot the same guy), but that marker should disappear or simply not appear to anyone who doesn't have, or loses, direct LoS to the spotted target.

How hard is this to implement? Not hard at all.

4. Tanks (Sunderers count under this category) can only spot other vehicles, infantry and aircraft can spot everything. Aircraft spamming the spot function is already solved by solution #1 above- they'll be moving too fast, and will be too far away most of the time, to be able to spot infantry reliably, but should have no problem with spotting vehicles, which makes sense. Aircraft are designed to provide overwatch, so while they may not be able to spot as well as infantry, they shouldn't be gimped entirely. For tanks, there is no reason for them to be able to spot infantry. You already have infantry on the ground to spot and fight infantry, tanks are supposed to rely on infantry for situational awareness, and focus primarily on bombarding enemy positions and destroying other tanks. Preventing tanks from being able to spot infantry creates a more balanced synergy between them and infantry, forcing the tank to rely on infantry to spot threats and the like.

How hard is this to implement into the game? Not very hard at all.

- - - - -

So there you have it. Four (relatively) simple solutions toward making the spot-function balanced, but still useful.

[Flisher]

Here are some fact before I give my opinion:
-Highly unreliable Reason #1: pressing Q on a target wont spot it most of the time anyway
-Highly unreliable Reason #2: pressing Q on a target to far to display is HP usually don't work.
-Easily abusable/explotable for macroer
-Impractical for most person to use with the default binding
-Can spot or still see spot trough smoke!

My opinion? I beleive spotting should be ingame, but the current state make it unreliable and impractical.

Possible solution:
Class specific?
Vehicule specific (option on certains guns, ie: support spotter sundy...)
Tool specific (Binocular with scalable zoom) (grenade replacement, etc)
Visible when holding it (remember what holding Q did in the tech test, it was following the target while making a big circle around it for the user who did it...)

[coconut]

I like how the game does spotting, but two points should be improved:
1. [BUG?] If I have something in my sights, I should be able to spot it. Too often, when playing as an infiltrator with a high magnification scope, nothing happens when I press Q while aiming at a vehicle that's filling a significant part of my scope.
2. [OP] You shouldn't be able to light up an entire hill side or rock by aiming in the general direction and pressing Q. Spotting should not give new information to the spotter, it should be used solely for communicating known enemy positions to the rest of the team.

A specific equipment (a scanner) could be introduced to be able to reveal enemy positions without aiming precisely. Variants of this device would exist for ESFs and infiltrators (replacing the dart gun).

[Rolfski]

Add strategic spotting/scouting that reveals detailed enemy activity on the map and target designation to call in artillery.
I also would like to see some counter to spotting with the infrared/NV optics as they seem a bit OP now, especially on HE canons and rocket pods. Some kind of anti-thermal suit that makes infantry harder to spot with these optics but the trade-off is that it takes a suit slot.

[Mordelicius]

And LA and Infils are the most gimped classes out there currently. Sundies are pretty easy to track down by the team. Aircraft are massively visible to everyone already, if you need a little red triangle to see them your just blind.
LA is a top tier infantry along with HA. They have the same kill potential as a high dps HA because they always get a jump on players. Engineer and Infiltrator are medium. Medics are the weakest (and I don't count Max as pure infantry. It's an infantry-vehicle hybrid).

Spotting is necessary for a game with:
- Highly mobile Light Assault that has jumpjets and fast sprint.
- Long-range sniper Infiltrators with stealth.
- ESFs that can swoop at high velocity and hover fire.
- Transport Sunderers that double as a spawn point.
- All terrain tanks like the Magrider than can hide in unexpected places high and low.

Without spotting, LA would run amuck and defeat everything with ease except Aircrafts. Without spotting, Infiltrators would be deadly at long range, at medium range and even in short range.

Here's an example of what I think will happen without spotting:
- LA population will explode.
- Outraged players call for nerf!
- Higby comes out with a statement: Regular infantry isn't meant to be a hard counter against these elusive flying monkeys. If you want to beat a flying monkey, you have to be a flying monkey. :rofl:

So, as I and many have said earlier, don't fix what isn't broken.

[jepaul junior]

A. make spotting only spot for players nearby, doritos shouldn't show up for someone 1km away

B. make it temporary. If you haven't been spotted in several minutes or you travel far enough, you should have your dorito removed

C. If you fire a weapon it should attempt to auto-spot.

D. spotting should show squad mates direction.


All of the above could be certed/increased by cert ie increased spotting time/range

Pardon me noobs, rebind your spot key to your primary fire key as well. Point C. solved as well as the idiot who uses arrow keys.

(On a side note do you think the majority of people talking about balance issues in fact might be doing things like not spotting and using arrow keys?)

[PredatorFour]

Pardon me noobs, rebind your spot key to your primary fire key as well. Point C. solved as well as the idiot who uses arrow keys.


Yeah .... and give away your position to the other guys you have gotten behind by shouting " enemy engineer spotted!" ....


noob.

[ringring]

Yeah .... and give away your position to the other guys you have gotten behind by shouting " enemy engineer spotted!" ....


noob.
I must admit I killed a VS today and the only reason I knew he was around was because he spotted something and I heard the 'Enemy medic spotted' sound.

What can I say, it was dark and he was vs and so virtually invisible until he shouted.

[IamEternal]

And LA and Infils are the most gimped classes out there currently. Sundies are pretty easy to track down by the team. Aircraft are massively visible to everyone already, if you need a little red triangle to see them your just blind.

I already have. Planetside is supposed to be a game where player ability is what wins fights it's not meant to be a Sci Fi WoW.

Spotting in PS2 (and other mechanics like Radar) create mechanics that replace the need for player ability, it does the work for you. It's on the same level as an Aimbot, the Aimbot takes away your need as a player to be able to aim your weapon, spotting and radar takes away your need as a player to detect and identify enemy players.

Everyone has their gameplay preferences, heck a lot of people like games like WoW or games that require no player effort of skill whatsoever. It's not for me to tell you what to enjoy. But be under no illusions those of you that are saying spotting is great and should stay are on the side of making PS2 less about player skill.

No Spotting helps team play by allowing quick and time spread of information to friendly units. It is nothing like aimbot. It does nothing except let friendlies know where a target is. We have this same technology in the military today. Blueforce tracker is a computer system that convo commanders use to mark targets and set routes for the rest of his unit to use. We also use radios, hand and arm signals, and verbal communications to relay to each other. So I guess as Soldiers we are getting lazy? Your argument is invalid and slightly retarded. You win a war through information. I do think there should be some adjustments made. I should be able to as an Infiltrator use a radio to tell friendlies where a target is because nowhere will you ever see a sniper stand up and start yelling.

[Dkamanus]

I don't know if people already have suggested this, but I think is something that should be done about it. Me and my outfit though it would be a good idea to give it only for the Infiltrator class, through his sniper scope, as a visual assessment for him with doritos and everything, while for the rest would be a ping in the map for the squad (consider that the future and nanites, and integrated voice and visual stuff between the outfit), it would help people see better and use the minimap more.

A sniper would then have the functionality also of pinging enemy armour and everything, and ALL should appear on the squads minimap. Maybe the sniper pressing Q warns everyone on the squad the type of enemy and direction based on the compass. It would be VERY helpful and add another function to the Sniper.

Meanwhile, all infantry can still spot, but only the voice would be given.

[MyOdessa]

Hitting Q, not only allows me to spot enemies, but also highlights friendlies. Remove spotting and number of TKs will go up, and TKs already are a problem in this game.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

No Spotting helps team play by allowing quick and time spread of information to friendly units. It is nothing like aimbot. It does nothing except let friendlies know where a target is. We have this same technology in the military today. Blueforce tracker is a computer system that convo commanders use to mark targets and set routes for the rest of his unit to use. We also use radios, hand and arm signals, and verbal communications to relay to each other. So I guess as Soldiers we are getting lazy? Your argument is invalid and slightly retarded. You win a war through information. I do think there should be some adjustments made. I should be able to as an Infiltrator use a radio to tell friendlies where a target is because nowhere will you ever see a sniper stand up and start yelling.

I'm ex-army. Logistics. I brought up real life army stuff once and got flamed. Careful with this whole IRL stuff...

Typical counter-arguments are that IRL there's no red triangle that follows him around.
In game there's no delay in information passing. Press Q and everyone sees the triangle.
IRL you have to point and then every man has to look and work it out themselves. And if the enemy moves, you have to start again. Plus there can be whole minutes while information gets passed up the chain and back down again to the other units.

Some men are better than others. Sure, you get training up to a level, but there's always going to be someone better at spotting. This is where certs can come in. More certs = bionic eyes or some crap, extra training, roleplay it how you want. The effect is similar to a Field of View radar.

On the flipside, enemies can be wearing ghillie suits and proper camo for the region. (I see a lot of giraffe camo on Esamir. That should make you easier to spot IMO) So you should be able to cert into stealth as a universal trait. reduces effectiveness of enemy spotting ability.

There is huge opportunity here for a whole other spotting and counterspotting game.

Or bugger it and leave it all the way it is right now.

[Ohaunlaim]

I love the idea of certing into stealth armor for infantry and vehicles that would reduce the range at which the enemy could slap a Dorito on my head. I would cert this and drop nanoweave immediately.

[IamEternal]

I'm ex-army. Logistics. I brought up real life army stuff once and got flamed. Careful with this whole IRL stuff...

Typical counter-arguments are that IRL there's no red triangle that follows him around.
In game there's no delay in information passing. Press Q and everyone sees the triangle.
IRL you have to point and then every man has to look and work it out themselves. And if the enemy moves, you have to start again. Plus there can be whole minutes while information gets passed up the chain and back down again to the other units.

Some men are better than others. Sure, you get training up to a level, but there's always going to be someone better at spotting. This is where certs can come in. More certs = bionic eyes or some crap, extra training, roleplay it how you want. The effect is similar to a Field of View radar.

On the flipside, enemies can be wearing ghillie suits and proper camo for the region. (I see a lot of giraffe camo on Esamir. That should make you easier to spot IMO) So you should be able to cert into stealth as a universal trait. reduces effectiveness of enemy spotting ability.

There is huge opportunity here for a whole other spotting and counterspotting game.

Or bugger it and leave it all the way it is right now.

I understand the IRL arguement and how it still takes time, but from my perspective if currently information can be nearly instant thanks to wireless technology, and this is supposed to be in the future where we are travel through wormholes. I dont think it is improbable that the technology to do what the game has us doing is unfeasible.

As for ghillie suits. Infiltrators can cloak to drop there dorito and can't be spotted while cloaks. spotting does work just like IRL, if I can see you then I can give away your position. I suggested Certs somewhere on the forum before for both Spotting to improve infiltrators ability and counter to reduce time of dorito and range at which you can be spotted for everyone else.

I do agree that with certs to augment the spotting it would greatly increase the spotting metagame and bring a whole new level to gameplay. Each class should have something that makes them truly unique and gives them a sense of purpose outside the bang bang your dead FPS aspect.