IR/NV

[Towe]

What is this bullshit with IR and NV working perfectly during day, even showing enemies much better than normal sights?

Imo there should be almost no contrast on NV during the day, IR could get a LITTLE more contrast but shouldnt be able to see terrain.

Just a quick thought about how to solve this, I would be fine with almost everything that made it a stupid move to use those in daylight.

Oh yea, and make night last a bit longer, otherwise it might not be worth it switching to IR/NV. Maybe a longer night on Amerish and a shorter one on Indar? Just a thought, discuss...

EDIT: I thought everybody new, but seems not so I have to edit this in:
Dont forget that there is vehicle IR/NV. While infantry often gives up zoom, vehicles do that much less since they cant get much zoom anyway. Also for alot of vehicles it would be much harder to detect infantry without using IR/NV.

[ringring]

No.

I use NV pretty much all the time. Why? To be able to see.

Day/night is ok as it is.

[Sledgecrushr]

Ir nv for both vehicles and infantry needs a big nerf. Its too much of an ez mode. Its just stupid op on vehicles, you dont really have to look to be able to discern every infantry and vehicle within sight. For infantry you can pick out cloaked infiltrators too easily and it works great through smoke, daylight and almost everything else that you can throw at it. These nightvision add ons need to be fixed so the other sughts would be just as useful.

[OnyxD]

To be fair, on infantry guns IRNV does have it's drawbacks as well. It doesn't have a zoom and really cuts down on peripheral vision. It also can take time to get used to the sudden switch of colour scheme.

Having said that IRNV is my favourite scope.

[Assist]

Ir nv for both vehicles and infantry needs a big nerf. Its too much of an ez mode. Its just stupid op on vehicles, you dont really have to look to be able to discern every infantry and vehicle within sight. For infantry you can pick out cloaked infiltrators too easily and it works great through smoke, daylight and almost everything else that you can throw at it. These nightvision add ons need to be fixed so the other sughts would be just as useful.

Agreed completely. I use IRNV on every weapon and/or vehicle that I can. The only weapons I don't have it on are the beamer and long range sniper.

It's too good to not use right now, hopefully it gets changed. Although to be honest, the main reason I use it is the muzzle flash from the guns is extremely distracting for me, to the point that my aim is horrible without the IRNV.

[Sturmhardt]

No.

I use NV pretty much all the time. Why? To be able to see.

Day/night is ok as it is.

You are part of the problem.

.sent via phone.

[Mavvvy]

The infrared certainly is borked, passive infrared nightvision should not be highlighting units as it does. While thermal seem's to me that its working as it should be, plus it seems to have a shorter range then rendering distance which seems balanced to me.

Besides its not like your visible if someone keeps spamming a button in your rough direction..grrrr... :D

[NewSith]

It's not as good long range as everyone thinks. It's either IRNV or Zoom and since not everyone is able to do precision shooting, I think it balances itself out.

[SeraphC]

IR should not be handicapped during daytimes, you should see just as well as you normally do. IR shouldn't highlight stuff though (not if you want it realistically).

That being said I like IR the way it is. (I am part of the problem!) It would be a bit to hard to see anything on the ground without sticking your nose up it's ass in aircraft if it weren't available.

[belch]

For a minute I thought I had stumbled into the BF3 forums...

Having jumped into a Lib that was setup with IRNV on the Zephyr, I have to say it seemed excessivley good. Maybe make a suit ability that can counter the effects?

[Baneblade]

I think Intercoolers should be a certable upgrade that hides your heat signature. At the cost of whatever defensive ability you don't have.

But at least we don't have IR goggles...those would be much more massively OP.

[Rolfski]

They already have their limits so instead of nerfing them I would rather have an option to counter them. Wearing some sort of anti-thermal armor would make it difficult to be spotted by these optics. The trade-off being that it requires a suit slot that could be used for other useful armors.

[IamEternal]

As an Infiltrator, I hate these. Cloaking is pointless. There should be a cert with the cloaking that eliminates it when the cloak is activated.

[sneeek]

It's a bit illogical that an infiltrator's cloak works only for light of optical frequencies. Infrared is just a different band of frequencies compared to optical.

Here's an evil, money-grabbing idea for SOE: have an extortionately-priced cert (or cert chain) that upgrades the cloak to include infrared cloaking, or at least, better infrared cloaking. Call it wideband cloak, or something. Make it mutually exclusive with sound-reducing certs, so that you can either be very silent, or very cloaked.

[Sledgecrushr]

Infrared optics work by using an infrared flashlight. This stuff should both be super short ranged and the guy who is using it should be lit up to everyone else using ir. Thermal is a completely different animal.

[Binkley]

I haven't found these that useful for infantry and tanks. The range is so limited. I certainly don't use them in the daylight. I don't do air much, so I can't comment there.

I do think they should be blinded in the daylight and therefore useful only at night, real NV stuff is.

[DovahTerran]

The range gets pretty limited, but you can see halfway across a Tech Plant's courtyard with it and it lights up any unit clear as day. It does seem a bit overpowered but very situational. I personally can't get used to the instant change in contrast and color from normal vision to NV/IR and back. Too odd.

To me it seems kind of like Predator Vision, or Alien Vision from that AVP game that came out in the early 2000's. It's excellent at detecting motion, but it destroys any contrast in terrain, and cancels out at a certain range. Also kind of like Night Eye in TES:IV for those that have played it.

Like others have said, it also cancels out any zoom effect. That greatly reduces it's usability at long range, unless you like picking pixels and hoping you get a hit. I think it's fine as it is. I've played plenty of war games where the cockpit screen is rendered as a black and white image that picks out vehicles and infantry very easily.

It's a simple tradeoff. Range and normal optics or IR/NV and heavily distorted visual image and color.

[sneeek]

Thermal imagers, like the PS2 IR/NV sight seems to resemble, are not blind during daytime. At worst case, contrast would be lower during daytime due to higher ambient temperatures. Modern imagers no doubt have automatic gain and dynamic range control so that they automatically adjust to night and day.

Image intensifiers work using a photomultiplier, and they are effectively blind in the daytime because they are callibrated for extremely low light levels.

So any arguments in favour of nerfing the IR/NV scope really need to be made in terms of balance, not on how close it is to reality.

[Sledgecrushr]

Ir/nv scopes arent very well ballanced. Its too easy to pick out targets in all but the longest range fights. If I was going to balance these Inwould shorten the effective range for infantry. For vehicles I would shorten their range and make them so if your going over a certain speed all you would see is a smear. Both infantry and vehicle nv would not work very well at all during the day.

[Helwyr]

Vehicle based IR/Thermal optics shouldn't highlight Infantry at all. And Infantry based IR shouldn't highlight cloaked Infiltrators in any way.

[Chewy]

There needs to be a difference between thermal, IR, and NV. As they are now it's just a Thermal scanner with color filters. A bad thermal at that when a world of ICE is brighter than a field of sand.

[Ghoest9]

I think its fine as is.

During the day its much more limited than a regular scope but it is better at finding people in vegetation and in the shadows - as it should be.

[Towe]

Im really not a fan of the Infiltrators should get a new cert tree for that.

I mean shouldnt you be able to hide as normal infantry too? I like sitting in bushes and stuff, but as is you just cant do it in PS2...

[Ghoest9]

"normal' infantry ingame and IRL can be seen by IR.

Using an IR scope in PS2 has serious drawback.

Stop whining that everything isnt perfect for you. I have played an Inf a lot - IR scope are not whats holding the class back.

[capiqu]

what about giving them a 10 second timer?

[capiqu]

What is this bullshit with IR and NV working perfectly during day, even showing enemies much better than normal sights?

Imo there should be almost no contrast on NV during the day, IR could get a LITTLE more contrast but shouldnt be able to see terrain.

Just a quick thought about how to solve this, I would be fine with almost everything that made it a stupid move to use those in daylight.

Oh yea, and make night last a bit longer, otherwise it might not be worth it switching to IR/NV. Maybe a longer night on Amerish and a shorter one on Indar? Just a thought, discuss...

I haven't seen night play since Beta, at least that I remember. hate to bring this back up but 7 or 5 hour cycles would help.

[Killjaeden]

I don't see the problem with infiltrators... the cloak doesn't make you invisible, just harder to detect. If you are so blunt and walk right infront of the enemy he will see you with NV or pure eyesight anyway. To spot a cloaker you have to view through it first, which nobody does permanently except he is in a firefight anyway, or has indicators that an infiltrator is in the vicinity (decloak noise).
The NV has crappy range, if i compare it to the range i usually engage as heavy (up to 200m). If you want to go undetected, keep out of it's range. As far as daylight goes - most of the time you can see your target just as well as with the NV... At least at the distance where NV works. And with normal eyes you don't have a ADS-movement penaltie, so you can use it all the time without drawback... Nerf normal eyesight!

I never use it at day because losing periphal vision is bad, losing three quarter of your range is even worse. I only use it at the rare occasion of night-fights in facilities, especially against VS since they have default nighttime camo.

[Towe]

Did you forget the vehicles?

[Strategy]

Yes, why not nerf it? They're going to nerf everything in time anyway because, unfortunately, players don't want to learn to improve.

[Helwyr]

I don't know why people think that how things currently work "IRL" has any bearing on a game set in the distant future with lore that essentially makes it pure fantasy. But just to fully put that line of argument 6 foot under in regard to IR/thermal know that technology allowing for cloaking from thermal/IR optics is already possible "IRL".
http://www.physnews.com/physics-news/cluster228847635

So it's just down to game balance. Again in my view it is not balanced that vehicles can get optics that make seeing Infantry so easy, even if they have some cover. Also that's it's not balanced that vehicles or Infantry can have easy access to optics/sights that completely nullify an Infiltrators primary ability of the cloak.. which should be noted is possible to be seen without any aid already, albeit no where near as easily as with the use of some of these optics.

[SpunkyKuma]

I rarely use the NV, and when I do it's on the infiltrator Artemis rifle so I can scout around. NV is terrible to use while indoors (or biolab) but works nicely when outside fighting between base and outposts. Otherwise I'm always using the 1X or 2X RDS.

Vehicle thermal is amazing, if that was on infantry weapons, it'd be brutally OP.

[Eliphas]

Infrared optics work by using an infrared flashlight. This stuff should both be super short ranged and the guy who is using it should be lit up to everyone else using ir. Thermal is a completely different animal.

I do not agree with the super short comment seeing how I am staring at IR screen that can see for several km out in any direction in the meddle of Afghanistan. I do think seeing how the cloak that the infiltrators use bends light, I do not think it is needed to have a special cert or gear to stay out of IR in the first place. If you want to spot cloakers make thermals available. The British have developed (still in test phase) IR plating for tanks so adding that as a deter-ant is a simple fix. Maybe add some comm assets to the bases or aircraft. Make a comm net work relaying on the bases and sub bases. But I am getting of track here sorry.

[Sunrock]

What is this bullshit with IR and NV working perfectly during day, even showing enemies much better than normal sights?

Imo there should be almost no contrast on NV during the day, IR could get a LITTLE more contrast but shouldnt be able to see terrain.

Just a quick thought about how to solve this, I would be fine with almost everything that made it a stupid move to use those in daylight.

Oh yea, and make night last a bit longer, otherwise it might not be worth it switching to IR/NV. Maybe a longer night on Amerish and a shorter one on Indar? Just a thought, discuss...

Well its as light outside during the night as it is during the day so way even care about that?....

But they already nerfed NVIR scoops. And the what they came up with is a quite good solution. I don't think there is any need what so ever to change anything here.

[Sledgecrushr]

I do not agree with the super short comment seeing how I am staring at IR screen that can see for several km out in any direction in the meddle of Afghanistan. I do think seeing how the cloak that the infiltrators use bends light, I do not think it is needed to have a special cert or gear to stay out of IR in the first place. If you want to spot cloakers make thermals available. The British have developed (still in test phase) IR plating for tanks so adding that as a deter-ant is a simple fix. Maybe add some comm assets to the bases or aircraft. Make a comm net work relaying on the bases and sub bases. But I am getting of track here sorry.

What are you using as a ir broadcaster?

[Chewy]

MY point of view on this is.

IR- Black and white filter that's useable at all times and ranges. Ignores smoke and blacks out cloaks (think Metro 2033 ghosts)
NV- Basic green filter. Useable at all hours and ranges but takes time to adjust if not dark and is effected by cloaks like normal vision (shimmering only)
Therm- What we got now with highlights and limited range. But maybe give it a new color filter.

Basically make the highlighting a thermal only perk at cost of range.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

Ir nv for both vehicles and infantry needs a big nerf. Its too much of an ez mode. Its just stupid op on vehicles, you dont really have to look to be able to discern every infantry and vehicle within sight. For infantry you can pick out cloaked infiltrators too easily and it works great through smoke, daylight and almost everything else that you can throw at it. These nightvision add ons need to be fixed so the other sughts would be just as useful.

Yeah. And I'm a dalton whore.

I think at the very least some sort of motion blur and lack of contast as a bare minimum, especially during daylight.

[Towe]

Yes, why not nerf it? They're going to nerf everything in time anyway because, unfortunately, players don't want to learn to improve.

Improve??? How do you improve on not beeing seen when youre highlighted like a cristmastree?

By the logic of that stupid statement giving people aimbots would get them to improve their skills...

[Ghoest9]

Improve??? How do you improve on not beeing seen when youre highlighted like a cristmastree?

By the logic of that stupid statement giving people aimbots would get them to improve their skills...



I get the impression you are either a really bad inf or you have never actually tried a NV scope - maybe both.

[Sledgecrushr]

Lowlight nightvision and infrared shouldnt be able to see through smoke. Thats only in the realm of thermalvision. And I think they need to make thermal optics even shorter range than what we have, its just too easy once you have that cert.
Edit-Also lowlight and infrared shouldnt highlight people and vehicles.

[Ghoest9]

If you think MV scopes are so great - use them.

The truth is they involve trade offs like everything else in the game.
mostly people want them nerfed because they personally dont like the penalties but they resnt everyone who enures the penalties for the benefits.

[jsnipy]

Sounds like QQ ...

I don't think IR/NV it is op, could maybe see it get some range diminished. Also, an enemies flashlight attachment should act as more of disruptor/counter for it.

Good for seeing cloakers.

[Towe]

I get the impression you are either a really bad inf or you have never actually tried a NV scope - maybe both.

Can you explain this?

[Ghoest9]

Can you explain this?


Really hoping for some dev attention arent we?


Just because they nerfed air due to a ground swell against the balance that doesnt mean they will nerf everything that gets a whine thread.

[Moodel]

I use and have used the NV scopes almost entirely since the start of the game.

I only use it because it highlights and makes it easier for me to hunt and kill Infiltrators......something I do very well :)

I guarantee if they nerfed them they would introduce a scope to make it easier for Infiltrator hunting.

[JesNC]

If you think MV scopes are so great - use them.

The truth is they involve trade offs like everything else in the game.
mostly people want them nerfed because they personally dont like the penalties but they resnt everyone who enures the penalties for the benefits.

You're correct concerning the infantry NV scopes.


But there's no downside to strapping NV/Thermal on a vehicle and highlighting every enemy in the radius.

[Assist]

I only use it because it highlights and makes it easier.

That's why I think it needs tuned down. It's too good right now. It ignores every graphical distraction in the game. Smoke, Explosions, gun flash, sun glare, everything.
I just want them to change it so I can begin using different scopes :D I use it on every weapon I can, because target acquisition is way higher on it when you remove a lot of the graphics.

[gunshooter]

In vehicles it's overpowered but for infantry it's just another scope choice. The only thing thats OP about it is seeing thru smoke/seeing cloaked infiltrators which should both be removed.

[Whiteagle]

Personally, I prefer zoom on Vehicle Optics...

...Then again, I actually shoot other vehicles from a distance instead of farming Infantry...

[Brusi]

One of the trade-offs is that it works like shit on Esamir.

[Ghoest9]

One of the trade-offs is that it works like shit on Esamir.

so true

Its suicide during the day there.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

You're correct concerning the infantry NV scopes.


But there's no downside to strapping NV/Thermal on a vehicle and highlighting every enemy in the radius.

Yeah. I can't gun in a lib without it (or thermal)

One of the trade-offs is that it works like shit on Esamir.

Pfft. Who plays anywhere but Indar?

[Towe]

Really hoping for some dev attention arent we?


Just because they nerfed air due to a ground swell against the balance that doesnt mean they will nerf everything that gets a whine thread.

Wow, what an explanation of your previous statement.

Seems all you can do is insult. Do you even know what the word discussion means? Probably not...

[TheRageTrain]

What is this bullshit with IR and NV working perfectly during day, even showing enemies much better than normal sights?

Imo there should be almost no contrast on NV during the day, IR could get a LITTLE more contrast but shouldnt be able to see terrain.

Just a quick thought about how to solve this, I would be fine with almost everything that made it a stupid move to use those in daylight.

Oh yea, and make night last a bit longer, otherwise it might not be worth it switching to IR/NV. Maybe a longer night on Amerish and a shorter one on Indar? Just a thought, discuss...

It\s enchanced vision and night scope in one. It\s working just fine. Can\t use any other scope myself because the dot in holo scopes isn\t bright enough to actually see it always.. So would have to use iron sights what have limited range in my opinion what\s far less than the range of the weapon. Sniping with pistol.. because my LMG can\t shoot far because of it\s scope ain\t really cool.

[typhaon]

I use a small neon-orange sticker on my monitor as an aid for the scope.

Started doing this because of the x-hairs of the IR/NV... I found myself losing track of them somewhat often and shooting left or right of center.

The sticker also makes for a fantastic hip fire target.

[Bocheezu]

I use a small neon-orange sticker on my monitor as an aid for the scope.

The old methods still work, yes. I have the exact same trouble with the IRNV as you do; I lose track of the verticle crosshair and find myself shooting way to the side a lot of times (usually to the right for some reason). I don't know why the crosshair color is black instead of red or something that actually stands out compared to black/white.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

I might have to get me some little orange dots. I always lose track.