Game Feedback: Its Boring. :/

[basti]

I also put up a video that contains the stuff in this post and more. Vid is 30 min long, post is much shorter and misses some stuff because im in a Hurry. ;)

Planetside 2 Feedback via Basti Part 1


302 Found


Smaller outfits:

Issue is simple: we have nothing to do. In Planetside 1, we could hold Generators down to deny the enemy any number of benefits thanks to the lattice system, or do re secures. In planetside 2, nothing of that is possible.

What outfits that aren’t Azure Twilight, Ghosts of the Revolution or the Enclave, basically outfits that hold much more than a single platoon, need is side objectives that are important and happen away from the zerg. Generators that actually power those benefits bases give would help a ton, just make sure you place them inside defend-able buildings that wont just get shelled from the outside.

Key issue really is that right now, smaller outfits can just join the zerg. If we try anything else, we get steamrolled, or face no resistance. Because why defend that small outpost over there for the off chance of someone coming? To fix that, we need longer hack timers, MUCH longer, like twice or three times as long.

This means you can mount defences, as you know where the enemy is and where they have to go next.

Longer hack timers would also likely fix the whole “attack attack never defend” issue we have. Right now its impossible to mount a proper defence. If you see the enemy zerg attacking some place, you try to set up a defence line somewhere, and yell for help via /orders. But till people are actually there and got ready to stop the enemy, the enemy is already there. To fix this, I tired to mount defence lines further away, but that turned out to be not working, as a chunk of folks went right into the enemy. Turns out our defence line was not strong enough because of that, and we get steamrolled. People stopped trying to defend quickly because of that.

Longer hack timers would mean the enemy would stay at a base much longer, means defenders have more time to form up, and also re secures can actually be done, as opposed to the current “this is getting hacked, we need to re secure it asap OH ITS ALREADY GONE”

So, in short: 2-3 times longer hack timers, and side objectives like Generators that power the benefits of bases.

Spotting:

Its dull, completely, and broken to the bone. There is no reason to not spam Q all the time.

Putting some kind of downside on Q wont work and only make people mad. Instead, change spotting completely. Remove Q, let spotting be done by vehicle radar and Infiltrators.

Give Galaxys a sidegrade for an avacs like radar dish, maybe make it somewhat more complicated like the higher the galaxy is flying, the less it spots (low flying it spots everything, med flying only vehicles and some infantry, High flying only some vehicles).

Also, enhance the infiltrators tool, and also give him another tool option. Binoculars that spot whenever the infil “fires” with them at enemy’s. Spot stays active as long as the infil keeps his eyes on the target. Something like that.

Metagame:

I cant possible stress enough how quick we need those 3 other continents and the continent metagame with them. Video goes into more detail here, just need to say it again: HURRY CLEGG! <3

Quick and dirty, done. Please tell me what you folks think. :)


Greets

Basti

[Binkley]

I'm all for side objectives, generators or whatever, that can be defended by a squad. However, longer hack times will make the game less boring? Come again? The boring part of the game is standing around waiting for the base to cap after the resistance is gone (if there ever was any). I sure don't want to make that any worse.

[ringring]

Video isn't available as yet but I completely agree with the text.

I think in general the design looked at PS1 tried to keep in stuff people said was fun and took out stuff people say wasn't.

However, the staff they took turned out to be very important, e.g. longer hack timers, and without those it makes defence pointless, resecures as of old impossible and it even makes captures less meaningful, we lose all ways round.

[Zakuak]

I like all of this.

I'm pretty new around here but stop by to read around and get away from the "Nerf everything" talk on the PS2 forums.

Your ideas seem like they would add some ...what's the word I'm looking for...purpose to certain aspects of the game. Or at least allow time for the factions to respond to each others actions, as it stands now it's just a big blob that rolls in and no real amount of strat or tactical decision making is required, you grab a weapon and cross your fingers lol. Obviously I am have over simplified it but...

It's very fast paced which on some levels is great...I'm not looking for some turn based combat or anything, but on other levels (metagame and so forth) it is too fast or more so non-existent.

Seems they could add some elements to the game that would maintain the frantic up paced in your face combat but allow for some crafty strategy and clandestine type stuff.

As for the "Q" button...I think anyone should be able to spot but yeah Infil with Binocs would be cool, maybe keep that spotted enemy on mini map longer.

[bpostal]

Rapid response is something my outfit has been discussing and I agree that as it currently stands it's simply not viable in most situations, to the detriment of the game.
However, simply extending the length of the hack timers (for lack of a better term) would just mean more time spawn camping for the assaulting forces at towers and outposts. For larger facilities it would mean securing a hard spawn point and trying to assault through to bring the SCU back up, still not very 'defensive' and more of a smallish-sized counter assault. Could be fun but it wouldn't be like what was possible in Planetside, dropping a gal at the BD and assaulting through to the tubes (or CC) to bring them back up since due to the current layout it would be more akin to taking a tower and pushing from the tower to the base you're trying to defend back in Planetside.
I would see that being more viable for the current tech plant as the SCU is in it's own separate building, which one could gain control of, while bringing the SCU back online. In a biolab or amp station you would have to gain control of the main superstructure before work could begin on bring the spawns back up (or they'll just go right back down moments after you bring them online.)

We'll have to see what Clegg has planned for these redesigned bases. My hopes are less areas that can be shelled by outside armor/air and passageways from the spawns to outlying areas, to allow for the types of holds that used to be the bread and butter of smaller, more tightly knit outfits.
Hopefully the video will go online in a few minutes and we can all take a look.

EDIT: More info on the map is what would really help. Status of hard spawns, status of gens, cap points, etc...
EDIT EDIT: Youtube says the video has been removed for being too long? wth?

[Ruffdog]

We need home continents like Planetside 1. We need to immerse the new folk into the Auraxis universe. When a purple or blue flag showed up on Ceryshen or Forseral (later Hossin and Solar - crazy universe shift) it was a direct challenge that had to be answered.
PS2 bases at the moment? We really don't give a fuck.
Yes I think longer hack times and ergo longer ownership times will be a good start

Also another thing ps1 did well was spheres of influence. Defenders had a bonus from the get go: the broadcast channel, radar at interlinks, drop pod denial etc. Attackers have it far too easy at the moment, hence the fast handovers.

I really look forward to Cleggs Interlinks

[Beerbeer]

Aww, no one wants to get spawn camped by vehicles anymore and by inference, no one wants to defend?

Solution:

1. Nerf vehicles
2. Change bases
3. Allow defenders to spawn tanks everywhere and from the spawn room (lol).

[Tatwi]

Now I don't feel so bad for feeling the same way. Here's hoping they change it to be a fun game.

[basti]

We need home continents like Planetside 1. We need to immerse the new folk into the Auraxis universe. When a purple or blue flag showed up on Ceryshen or Forseral (later Hossin and Solar - crazy universe shift) it was a direct challenge that had to be answered.
PS2 bases at the moment? We really don't give a fuck.
Yes I think longer hack times and ergo longer ownership times will be a good start

Also another thing ps1 did well was spheres of influence. Defenders had a bonus from the get go: the broadcast channel, radar at interlinks, drop pod denial etc. Attackers have it far too easy at the moment, hence the fast handovers.

I really look forward to Cleggs Interlinks


This is something that i plan to give feedback on later, propably in a few days. I just didnt want the post/the video to explode any more. ;)

I fully agree tho. We need home continents, and with them also sanctuarys. No way around it, but more to that in a few days. :)

edit: youtube decided to kill my vid because of its 30 minutes. Gosh, forgot about that completly. :/

[Beerbeer]

Longer hack times won't make a difference. In fact it will make things worse under the current circumstances. No one will try to come back to retake under that vehicle cluster ****. Do they now?

[basti]

Longer hack times won't make a difference. In fact it will make things worse under the current circumstances. No one will try to come back to retake under that vehicle cluster ****. Do they now?

Err, no, completly wrong.

Vehicles are no problem. They are easy to take out, especially when everyone is already inside trying to hack the base. Even if not, they can be taken out quite easily, as they are sitting ducks trying to defend the hack.
But for that you need time, time you dont have right now.

[Emperor Newt]

I'm all for side objectives, generators or whatever, that can be defended by a squad. However, longer hack times will make the game less boring? Come again? The boring part of the game is standing around waiting for the base to cap after the resistance is gone (if there ever was any). I sure don't want to make that any worse.

I would disagree. It's boring because there is nothing to do except jumping to the music someone is broadcasting via proximity voicechat.
If there would actually be some fighting (defense) taking place the hacking would partially happen during that time and people would feel less bored, even if it took longer, because they would have stuff to shoot at.

Regarding the op I agree. Especially with smaller outfits. My outfit can bring about two squads ever night and a little more then a platoon on "organized" nights. Currently due to the drop of players we are even below one full platoon in strength. It's hard to impossible to find good fights anymore. Defense is pointless (as stated a millions times) as defenders often need to outnumber attackers (who came up with that crazy idea?) and attacking outside of the zerg means capping empty bases. And that's just boring.
To help ourselves we started doing stupid stuff like fighting the enemy tank zerg with Flashs or Galaxy ramming the enemy air zerg. It's fun for a few times but we are really running out of options. There is just nothing for us to do because in Planetside 2 bigger is always better. Which means being small is pointless.

[basti]

I would disagree. It's boring because there is nothing to do except jumping to the music someone is broadcasting via proximity voicechat.
If there would actually be some fighting (defense) taking place the hacking would partially happen during that time and people would feel less bored, even if it took longer, because they would have stuff to shoot at.

Pretty much, yes.

Lets take planetside 1. There, we had 15 minutes hack timer. FIFTEEN MINUTES! Thats 1/4 of an hour.
Hacking was somewhat different tho. Instead of standing around the point, someone with a hack tool (a REK) moved to the hack terminal and pretty much shot at it with said tool. after a few seconds (depending on his hacking certification), the hack activated, and the 15 minutes counted down.
Then, you could go wherever you want. Mostly tho, it was defending the base to prevent the enemy to breach in, get to the hack terminal, and remove the hack (same way as hacking it in the first place, with the REK tool)

What usually happend in those 15 minutes.
Often, nothing. But it gave you time do do other stuff, like talk with your mates, plan the next attack, stuff like that.
But plenty of times, the enemy tried to resecure. That means you had a heavy fight for that base.
But what ALWAYS happend during those 15 minutes: The enemy spawned at the next base, and got ready for you. They mounted a grand defence, or decided to push against you with everything they got. That caused a lot of great battles, and steamrolling rarley happend.

[RobUK]

There was a post on the official forums about the endless vehicle spam. It's something that I also feel strongly about and I dearly wish some kind of resource was consumed each time a base constructed a vehicle for somebody. Adding the need to replensih that resource would add some much needed logistics to the game. Being able to deny the enemy the chance to replenish bases would be a whole new and badly needed layer of gameplay.

The replenishment vehicle doesn't have to be called an Ant and the resource doesn't have to be Nanites, so the dev's wouldn't have to feel that they're bowing down to the imaginary "we want Planetside 1.5" movement.

I really wish this group of developers would be bold enough to try out some of the original PS1 mechanics in PS2. Planetside 1 seems to be such a taboo thing with those guys for some reason.

This game needs to be more FUN. At the moment it's just about the frags and that gets boring so desperately quickly. We really need some depth to the game.

[basti]

Rob, the vehicle spam comes from the class and cert system, and there is little they can do to stop the basic cause without breaking the game completly.

Vehicles can be taken out, easily, by an opposing zerg as strong in numbers as the attacking vehicle zerg, regardless if they are infantary or in vehicles themself.

But that just doesnt happen as often as it should be. By the time you identified that enemy vehicle zerg and yelled for help, they are already steamrolling everything, and every attempt to stop them ends up with your forces being to few to actually do enough damage.

Thats why we need longer hack timers. We simply need more time to mount a defence. I know for some folks this sound crazy, but ive giving this a lot of thinking, and talked with a bunch of guys. It really is a simple time question.

Especially if you look at Buzzcut and the enclave. They can deal with vehicle spam, because they do have the numbers wherever they want. The zerg doesnt have the benefit of one big TS3 and a guy shouting at them what to do and people actually doing what gets said asap. With more time, this would be fixed.

[Sturmhardt]

Yeah... I really had a lot of fun with PS2 but it starts to get boring... the same fights over and over again, not much variation. I really hope there will be more stuff to do for an outfit of ~20 people.

[NewSith]

Rob, the vehicle spam comes from the class and cert system, and there is little they can do to stop the basic cause without breaking the game completly.

In all honesty if we just forget about talking big...

...vehicle spam comes from the fact that vehicles only require one man to operate, the fact that it takes just a couple of minutes to get to the other side of a continent on wheels/tracks and the fact that you can fully repair a burning Vanguard in less then 10 seconds.

[Synnoc]

I don't think longer hack timers will help much, for two reasons: One, I believe that enough of the zerg is more focused on K/D than XP, so they won't wait around; and two, territory is basically indefensible now, so the extra time won't help you set up defenses that you don't have.

I would like to posit a different change: Create organized infantry force multipliers. Something that would increase the overall power of infantry when wielded with intelligence and synchronization. These would be defensive and offensive abilities specifically designed to blunt or frustrate a zerg, but be counterable by organized resistance.

This would give small outfits something to do, would inherently create some metagame (what abilities to use, how to best use them and when), and would minimize the influence of the zerg, while rewarding organization.

Here's a few quick examples that need work, but illustrate what I mean:

1> A squad could all switch to engi, go to a control point, and hold 'B' (or whatever) for 30 seconds. This would lock the point until the enemy brought an equal or greater-sized squad to the point to detune it. (The enemy squad probably wouldn't need to be all engi's, but perhaps some percentage is required.)

2> An infil, an engi, and a HA (all in same squad, natch) could team up somehow (insert magic here) to fire off tank killers. The engi duct tapes C4 to the front of the HA's AV weapon (yeah, yeah, Vanu) and the infil spots somehow, and the round turns into a guided, speedy ball of tank-blowy-up-edness. Organized enemies could have jammers (more magic here) to minimize the effect on their squad/platoon. Add balance to taste.

3> An engi and a medic could link up somehow (magic!) to give squadmates temporary damage reduction plus regen.

4> Four light assault in the same squad, with full jet packs, all hit 'B' (or whatever) on a squaddie max for 10 seconds. This gives the max one bigger "bar" of non-renewable jump jets. Add cooldowns, restrictions etc to balance.

[crushtheblacks]

...

http://i48.tinypic.com/i77lg9.jpg

[MaxDamage]

My old headmaster used to say:

Bored people are boring people.

[igster]

Nice videos Basti. I agree generally with your points on almost every count. (except the AWACS thing : Sensor Disruptors, Interlink Benefits and CE are my preferred radar solution)

Only thing I can urge is to please revisit a lot of the Planetside 1 features that have been lost.

PS1 wasn't just about the huge battles. The iconic elements of the gameplay have just disappeared and this is what the fanbase are craving for.

Planetside without Max Crashes, Resecures, Gen Holds, Proper Warpgates, Emp Grenades, CE, Interlinks is like having Pizza without the calories or Indycar without the smell of gasoline.

[basti]

The map size should feel like GTA San Andreas; if you wanted to travel to the countryside in that game, THAT was a car trip. :lol:

Increasing the time it takes to repair a tank could increase the need for a tank team. I remember in PS1 I used to never pick up anyone to ride my armor if they did not have a glue stick on their back.

Yet the map somehow feels smaller. may be because of ESF flying quite faster than your usual PS1 mossy.

Im not sure about longer repair times. It already takes a bit to repair alone. And i really dont see repair time as a way to stop the vehicle zergs. Problem is that you usually dont have enough people around to attempt to stop the vehicle zerg in the first place, means you dont do enough damage to them to even get them to repair.

[Mox]

I like all of the ideas but i think that longer capture timers wont be enough to set up proper defences and last but not least to foster proper big battles.

There are still too many capture points available at the same time. It has to be reduced or we need a lattice.

There is no xp for defending outposts/bases. There is too much xp for ghost captures.

There is nothing to do till the enemy arrives (e.g. CE)

[BlueSkies]

The need for tactical objectives (i.e., gen holds, tower holds, etc) is fairly obvious but likely won't be addressed until they have sorted out the game for the zerg.

This raises the issue of defense and why no one really does it. I have seen several posts from Higby and others about incentivising defense through experience boosts and in my opinion this is just skirting the real underlying problem.

In Planetside 1 people defended because it was a farm (Interfarm anyone). You had 3 phases to this farm:

Phase 1 - The attacker approaches, engaging defending forces positioned on the walls. Defender has the tactical advantage (smaller force holds off larger force). Also in this phase, attacker attempts to take the tower. Defender has the advantage (Tower of Death style, smaller force holds off larger force).
Phase 2 - Having taken the courtyard, the attacker tries to breech the inner base. Defender has the tactical advantage. The bases were filled with doorways, cover, and choke points that allowed a significantly smaller force to defend against a large force. For instance, with the exception of max crashes, 4 guys properly equipped could hold a back door almost indefinitely (2 snipers, 2 MA rifles, all with Decis = no one shall pass).
Phase 3 - Having lost the base, defenders fall back to the generator and hold it down. Defenders have the advantage for the same reason as in phase 2, base design simply favors them.


As the bases were designed differently you could observe how the design elements affected gameplay. For instance, defending a bio lab was almost a waste of time since the generator was on the roof and easily accessible to the attackers. Similarly, Amp Stations had a similar problem with the command center being located on the roof. In both of these cases a major objective required respawning defenders to go outside to reach it. The interlink facility and drop ship center were the opposite. People scrambled over eachother to defend these as the design favored the defender.

In PS2 (from what I experienced), the base designs appear to have been layed out with "even playing field" as the driving goal (frequently favoring the attacking force). Designing for an even playing field is necessary in small map limited time matches of traditional FPS titles otherwise the match would be determined by who reached the best defensive position the earliest. In a persistent MMOFPS, however, base design must mirror more closely that of real life. As in, why wouldn't you design your base with every advantage in your favor?!? Walls (ffs...), turrets, cover, defensive chokepoints, etc should ALL favor the defense.

In a post somewhere on this site I noticed Malorn saying "a smaller force can't defend against a larger force, and they shouldn't expect to" or some such... THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE BASE DESIGN. Allowing a smaller force to defend against a larger force IS EXACTLY WHAT DEFENSIVE FORTIFICATIONS ARE SUPPOSED TO ALLOW FOR. When they don't guess what happens? Everyone just attacks, no defense.

With a properly designed defensive base, the battle is fully incentivised.

Attackers - Nice EXP gain from base capture
Defenders - Farm + occasional EXP gain from base resecure


Just my opinion though...


(Disclaimer: I haven't played PS2 since beta as my computer simply wasn't good enough, this is soon to change however. As such, my opinions are grounded in the environmental/base designs as they existed just before launch)

[ringring]

I don't think longer hack timers will help much, for two reasons: One, I believe that enough of the zerg is more focused on K/D than XP, so they won't wait around; and two, territory is basically indefensible now, so the extra time won't help you set up defenses that you don't have.

You have a point about defensibility.

But about the hack timers. Sure some people will immediately move on looking for the next kill, that's fine because there';s isn't supposed to be 1 proper playstyle.

But, many people will also stay to defend and an outfit will assign people to defferent defensive postions.

If no one defends the hack then there is a greater scope for a spec ops counter-attack, two gals drop a resecure force and take back the base. So there is incentive to stay and make sure of the hack.

But we just have to see what will happen by looking back at PS1. When the hack went on the 'winners' talked to their friends, talked on leader chat, looked at the overall strategic situation, took a bio break, refilled their glasses, made plans, assigned someone to return to the warpgate to bring a galaxy for a fast pick-up and go and finallt but not least - we celebrated our victory with a CONGA!!!!!!!

The conga has been nerfed :(

@basti I think "we're bored because there is nothing to do" is a simple and devastating criticism of the current game and totally correct.

I also agree that sanctuaries are essential. I was willing to suspend judgement earlier but I think the game state is prove enough, they are really really needed. Sorry Mat, I know you have set your face against them, but please thing again.

I find it discouraging when you think we need 6 continents. You are probably right (and as we know from ps1 even more continents will be even better) but that means we won't see the game properly working for maybe a year.

Will I have patience for that? Although I am playing almost every day in each session I find it hard to stay interested for more than 30 minutes, which is a complete difference to the same point in PS1.

[Archonzero]

I just mentored 2 friends into their first Planetside 2 experience. First off, they were amazed at the scale, scope an the current "bare bones" features currently available. They put it quite simply (one of whom is an fps fan) for a free to play game it's quite an achievement as a new MMO. Second off, they made a bold statement, that if I were not able to show them around, explain how the basics worked, character progression an the how to's for their respective class types they would have been completely lost an overwhelmed.. most likely one of them would not consider replaying, the other being an fps fan would have picked at it for a while, an had already admitted they spent about 3 hours just trying to find their way around an was still at a loss.

So.. yes. Speaking both as a planetside 1 vet(beta tester) an FPS fan (CS:S, BF3, Halo, TFC, BL:R) The new user experience is killing the first time players review of this game, only the ones with the stomach to give it further attempts.

WE NEED, not for us but as an immersion tool for new players....a true faction island sanctuary. With a proper new player experience just like Planetside 1 had. Tutorial, complete reward information system for learning about each an every aspect, from terminal types, class function, tool functions, vehicle an weapons operations (VR Room) generator types (shield/SCU) an how they work. Explanation of capture mechanics.

ALSO...
3 more continents (2 at minimum) to create a continental lock metagame, with better real benefits. Bonuses for continental locks should be, XP boosts, additional shield boost, vehicle shielding, double health boost. Real benefits that can enhance players abilities an give real solid reasons to wanting that continent locked.

Lattice system, tether larger facilities with linked systems to major facilities. Have the large facilities act as safeguard measures to keep major facilities under a factions control.

Increase the cap timer (at least double). Remove the flip xp reward to a scale able battle xp reward. Have a minimum for little or no fight, an scale it up for a larger protracted fight. Make the reward truly massive, it should easily be 5x the current reward value if it's a massive fight.

Add in a resource/power supply system.

A possible addition of new vehicles, Harvester + ANT, could add another logistical playstyle for players who are not arena deathmatch players (or simply do not have the machines to handle large/massive battles) yet can still play an would like to alongside friends in a socially dynamic rewarding way.
Add reward incentives for escorting those vehicles safely to the resource distribution center or power supplying NTU silo's at large/major facilities. Nanites don't replicate themselves infinitely.

Change the resource system, scrap aerospace/mechanical/infantry. Consolidate the resource into one type Auraxium. Make Auraxium nodes large desposits that deplete with each successive harvest. Make them have a random respawn of same resource to another location once fully depleted. As well that hex stays dry for X amount of time. This way resources have a slight finite component an need to be managed more effectively by the players themselves.

Base design still needs to be redesigned. I understand the ESports appeal that Higby/Smedley are eager for, but the majority (95%) of the base designs are absolutely horrible for an ESports concept. At least the larger/major facilities are horrible for this, with a few exceptions (Crown, Scarred Messa, Howling Pass, Biolabs, Auraxium Firearms, Lithcorp Mining) Large an Major base designs should be defensible to this format.

Main Structure - Infantry vs Infantry
Interior Court - Infantry/vehicle (favors infantry) airpower zero effect (due to cover/barrier layouts)
Outer walls/defenses - Airpower (most effective) / vehicle (secures the ground push) /infantry (least)
Outer Camps - Airpower/vehicles (most effective) / Infantry to secure/hold

With the addition of a tunnel system from the mainspawns to the main base/outer walls will help alleviate some of the "camp" issues, but it still doesn't address the vehicle spam that saturates the current capture/take hold process for bases. It's a nice bandaid an probably a quick fix, so I'm hoping they're really taking a look towards better more solid base redesigns.

There's so much more I can go on about that could help, work, fix, freshen.. etc.

[ringring]

Sanctuary idea........

in PS1 there was a sanctuary with 3 outposts (called Villas) and each had an entrance to VR and a Hart building for quick insertion to any continent.

How about instead of 3 villas each Sanc had a copy of an AMP Station, a Tech Plant and a Bio Lab.

In addition to this there would be missions that you could pick up ained at confused and new players (who are often the same) that would guide players through orientation.

e.g. Mission: Amp Station- Generator Orientation
1) Main shield generator - go and overload it
2) East shield generator -ditto-
3) West shield generator - ditto-
4) SCU shield generator -ditto-
5) SCU generator -ditto-

and so on for other aspects and bases

except compact the bases a little so not as much running is necessary.

[igster]

Capture timers
I really dont like the capture timers. I also don't just want to make timers longer. I'd much prefer a fixed timer.. One with numbers to indicate how long the cap will take. With a bar I have to watch it count down and estimate how long we have to get there.

Is it going fast or slow? Can we respond? I have to hover over a bar for 10 seconds to even estimate if we can organise a response in time.

This is one of the reasons there is no practical way to organise a response squad. Nothing worse than landing a gal to an area.. and you've misjudge the bar speed and change target with a gal full of pumped responders.

No matter what the mechanic
- Fix the timer
- Put it in a number, hopefully, a number describing how long is left before the cap

Defensibility & Special Ops
The change to the class system where we don't loot backpacks for ammo and to an engineer that supplys ammo for me has killed the possibility of a gen hold.

You can't do that whole mechanic if there is no possibility of the ammo inside the choke point running out. If you put enough players inside a defensible choke point then you have to ultimately be able to either zerg them or siege them out and wear them down. If you take out the possibility of starving them of resupplies then there is only one solution. And we return to the Zerg.

Given the choice between the engineer that we have now with ammor resupply (which I really love to play btw) and the reintroduction of generator holds :
Ditch the engineer ammo resupply...give me a gen hold any day.

Give me an engineer resupply pack that can't be placed inside the buildings of an enemy facility. Outside the buildings fine : at least I have to put my head out of the door to resupply.
Let me loot ammo again! And give us our gen holds back!

New player experience
The Planetside gameplay and mechanics now are already complex and difficult to understand for any player who wants to be just jump right in and pick up everything intuitively. Look at the SeanAnnos videos to see how a complete noob who hasn't even bothered reading a manual will experience the game without having done any reading or watching any tutorial videos (sigh... that is for another topic!)

This could definitely be helped by single player tutorials, VR Training etc. Even the existing shallow simplistic gameplay is not intuitive to pick up.

If players have to invest time in order to learn how the gameplay works.. you better make sure that the gameplay is worth the users investment in time. Look at Eve Online. Steep learning curve but it's ultimately worth it. It would be a very bad move to have a steep learning curve for planetside 2 and then ultimately your players just don't have a rich well thought out gameplay reward once they've worked out all of the mechanics.

Until you work out the gameplay details properly - you shouldn't invest time into doing a heavy tutorial system. You will just have to do them again once you actually work out the gameplay. If you do a tutorial then radically change the gameplay you're wasting all of your development effort.

[Beerbeer]

It's boring because this game is either too easy or too frustrating: vehicle play; infantry play.

Since we're all in vehicles because who doesn't like "too easy," we get bored to tears sitting in our tanks, esfs and libs while waiting for empty bases to cap because we chased away all of the defenders because we are in our overpowered tanks, esfs and libs.

It's a catch-22.

The devs, ensuring those that want to play tanks, esfs and libs, can do so at their leisure--and knowing these things dominate infantry (on purpose)--completely fails to realize there is another side to this coin.

Where does this leave the players that want to play infantry? Vehicles are made to dominate infantry and can be accessed at will. Bio labs and the warp gate? No where really, so they play vehicles and this mess of a game rolls on.

[Ruffdog]

Sanctuary idea........

in PS1 there was a sanctuary with 3 outposts (called Villas) and each had an entrance to VR and a Hart building for quick insertion to any continent.

How about instead of 3 villas each Sanc had a copy of an AMP Station, a Tech Plant and a Bio Lab.

In addition to this there would be missions that you could pick up ained at confused and new players (who are often the same) that would guide players through orientation.

e.g. Mission: Amp Station- Generator Orientation
1) Main shield generator - go and overload it
2) East shield generator -ditto-
3) West shield generator - ditto-
4) SCU shield generator -ditto-
5) SCU generator -ditto-

and so on for other aspects and bases

except compact the bases a little so not as much running is necessary.

:thumbsup:

[Figment]

When time is concerned, people talking about boredom when it takes too long always look at it from a perspective that doesn't consider how much time logistics, planning and response costs.

You have to consider time and preparation and planning. A ps1 fight takes hours, you don't hop in for five minutes, you commit to "taking that next base". As a resec team, the time you spend out of action is regrouping (convincing people out of other action), planning the best route, traveling and then fighting, rehacking and in ps2 capture mechanics holding and interpoint traveling is added, setting up spawnpoints, etc.


Super short timers don't allow that to happen. This type of game simply needs it. CE at least kept people busy with a worthwhile thing to do.


People shouldn't whine about downtime, because that allows battles to be so much better when they occur.

[Rockit]

Has there been anything more said about events? Also, LLU/CTF type capture mechanic would be nice feature to see.

[Rivenshield]

There was a post on the official forums about the endless vehicle spam. It's something that I also feel strongly about and I dearly wish some kind of resource was consumed each time a base constructed a vehicle for somebody. Adding the need to replensih that resource would add some much needed logistics to the game. Being able to deny the enemy the chance to replenish bases would be a whole new and badly needed layer of gameplay.
Perhaps the bases themselves would have pools of resources that would get depleted, and slowly replenish, just as ours do. 10,000-20,000 vehicle resources each, maybe.

The replenishment vehicle doesn't have to be called an Ant and the resource doesn't have to be Nanites, so the dev's wouldn't have to feel that they're bowing down to the imaginary "we want Planetside 1.5" movement.

I really wish this group of developers would be bold enough to try out some of the original PS1 mechanics in PS2. Planetside 1 seems to be such a taboo thing with those guys for some reason.
I know that feel, brother. We don't want the old game; we want the elements that functioned well in it imported if applicable... and a lot of them are.

I decided to check in last night, and lo! there were decent pops to be had on Connery/Indar (the other two continents were lifeless). I was happy enough not to mind the attendant distance-rendering issues. Where were all three empires gathered? The Crown, naturally. Two hours of pushing and shoving and counter-attacking and losing and winning and mowing down waves of each other.

At some point, we all had a /yelling five-minute conversation about it, and -- between the usual faction insults -- most seemed to agree that base defensibility was the reason we were here... and within that, I recall the following exchange:

Disgruntled lone NC: Why are we here all the time? Not worth it strategically.
Other NC: It's the only fun fight in the game.
Me: Can you imagine the fun we'd have if half the bases were this defensible?
VS: What the fascist said.

It made me LOL. But it also highlighted the point. Defense is FUN. Attacking a defensible base that comprises a serious challenge is FUN. Fending off a superior force or storming a place that took a difficult hour to get into -- that moment of fierce exultation -- is FUN. It's not 'farming'; it's... well, how many times do I need to say it?

Malorn groks all of this. I'm not sure anyone else does. I like Higby a helluva lot -- doesn't everybody? -- but his esports bias and the way it's visibly played out in-game makes me wince. It was like pulling teeth to get the AMS back. How long before we get the rest...? And do these horrifying rumors of the Gal-as-spawn-point making a return have anything to them?

We'll just see. I'll repeat yet again: Beginning of summer vacation is make or break. If we have a few more defensible bases and a decent metagame by then, I think we're in good shape.

[Rockit]

Defense is FUN.

Rewarding is another good word for it. Just simply rolling over base after base offers little sense of achievement (a.k.a. boredom). We don't need crown type fortresses everywhere but certainly there is plenty of middle ground that needs to be found and exploited profusely. Get people into fights which offer some semblance of a protracted fight and once they finally cap that facility it will have some meaning to them and thus perhaps the overall game.

[Tatwi]

Decided to play for a couple of hours for the first time since before Christmas. Nothing has changed. People, as in large groups of people, seem to purposely avoid fighting each other and that's a player driven choice, which pretty damned sad. A couple times, for a few minutes, I had a decent infantry fight, but each of them quickly devolved into vehicles farming kills, because (as we've said for months) there's really no way to stop or defend against that in most locations.

As much as the game play systems have their problems, it's important to consider the actions of the people who are playing it. I don't understand why people are choosing to play the way they do (in giant zerg waves that wash over empty and lightly defended bases, but never an enemy zerg of the same magnitude).

There's no Planetside in this. The people who are playing it don't even try to have the spirit of Planetside and the game, obviously, doesn't foster that spirit either. I am sad to say, this game feels and plays like any other "shooter game", except with a lot more down time and moments of complete futility. Not a winning combination, that.

:(

Also, hit detection is kind of random. I think I got 4 or 5 head shots out 15 kills and, as always, I was simply spraying people's general direction. Well, except for that easy sniper kill on the guy who stood in the spawn room door way for a while and then stepped through and stood on the outside. Oops, you was not alone! :)

[BlueSkies]

Decided to play for a couple of hours for the first time since before Christmas. Nothing has changed. People, as in large groups of people, seem to purposely avoid fighting each other and that's a player driven choice, which pretty damned sad. A couple times, for a few minutes, I had a decent infantry fight, but each of them quickly devolved into vehicles farming kills, because (as we've said for months) there's really no way to stop or defend against that in most locations.


This was very common in PS1 until two things were changed:

The Lattice System - Limited number of places to attack
Capture Experience - Facility capture experience changed to be dependent upon presence (and amount) of defending soldiers for the 10 minutes prior to the hack being initiated and the 15 minutes of the hack. No defenders, no EXP.


Before these changes went in, it was common (and not unreasonable) for armies to just circle each other on conts to get that sweet sweet capture XP.

[basti]

Well, gotta get rid of capture XP then.

Lets push that ahead first.

[Mox]

I dont think the factions dont want to fight each other but they dont meet on the battlefield.
With so many capture points it is not likly that the forces are at the same time at the same place.

Solution->reduce capture points or/and introduce the lattice

[basti]

I dont think the factions dont want to fight each other but they dont meet on the battlefield.
With so many capture points it is not likly that the forces are at the same time at the same place.

Solution->reduce capture points or/and introduce the lattice

Its not that they miss each other by chance, they miss each other because they just push ahead without trying to find each other.

Reducing the amount of capture points could help there, same with the lattice, but that causes other problems.

It think it would be easier just to give folks more reason to actually engange each other. The best way to do this is by encouraging defending a lot. Once you defend a point, you will also push torwards the enemy, causing the defender to become the attacker. The real problem is that once you actually captured a point, the defender went elsewhere, potentially split across. We need something that makes sure that the pushed back defenders know where to go, and where to spawn. Lattice did that wonderfully, less hexes would propably do that as well, but a simple "Priority target" would likley also help.

What about enhancing the "defend request" thing for squad leaders, giving them not just a icon on the map, but actually allowing them to mark a specific hex and making it the priority spawn location for everyone within a certain distance?
So, you get pushed back, loose the hex your defending, someone sets up another hex to defend, and everyone knows: thats where I should be, everyone else is gonna be there, and its very likley the enemy attacks there in just a sec.

Its pretty much a dynamic lattice in player hands.

[ringring]

Well, gotta get rid of capture XP then.

Lets push that ahead first.
PS1 had it right with both capture XP and resecure XP but both dependant on and proportional to the presence of enemy.

This incentivises larger fights and defensive resecures and de-incentivises ghost hacking, except for tactical reasons, which is fine.

Of course there need to be a few other changes such as hack timers and map information changes.

[Crator]

@Basti If you keep the amount of attack options (hexes) then how could a commander marking just a single hex to defend help the defense? Aren't you still in the same boat we are in now?

In PS1, it wasn't only the lattice that dictated where to defend. It was a factor, yes. But for the majority I think defended locations were more reliant on the spawn system. *The spawn system also dictated where the majority would attack as well. Path of least resistance was a big factor in PS1.

[Beerbeer]

It's not rocket science, it's just so much easier to vehicle camp then it is to defend.

Remember the tech plants one patch ago. A clan use to always setup shop in one and it was fun trying it dig them out as much as it was to defend them. Battles raged for hours until they were finally overwhelmed.

Sony didn't like that. They didn't like the fact that people got out of their vehicles so they changed it.

That's what this game is, a vehicle game. Infantry play is window dressing and if you think otherwise, you're sorely mistaken.

Give us defendable bases, remove the vehicle equation from all bases and outposts and people will defend. If outposts remain the same, no one will defend those either beyond what they currently do.

[basti]

It's not rocket science, it's just so much easier to vehicle camp then it is to defend.

Remember the tech plants one patch ago. A clan use to always setup shop in one and it was fun trying it dig them out as much as it was to defend them. Battles raged for hours until they were finally overwhelmed.

Sony didn't like that. They didn't like the fact that people got out of their vehicles so they changed it.

That's what this game is, a vehicle game. Infantry play is window dressing and if you think otherwise, you're sorely mistaken.

Give us defendable bases, remove the vehicle equation from all bases and outposts and people will defend. If outposts remain the same, no one will defend those either beyond what they currently do.

Will you stop posting your crap all over this thread already? You said it several times, we ignored it several times, because its BS.

Vehicles can be dealt with, they are no problem during attack or defense. Bases need ways to avoid vehicles clearly, but we are getting that with the next patch.

You cant remove vehicles out of the equation, couldnt do that in PS1 cant do that in PS2. This entire thread is about a different issue anyway, and has nothing to do with the exact layout of bases. So please, stop posting...

[Beerbeer]

You assume a lot.

[Beerbeer]

Based on what?

[basti]

Based on what?

based on the fact that you just bomb threads with your stuff without giving any feedback on how to make it better.