A new metric for player skill.

[Drakkonan]

After the announcement that SPM was going to be made the primary metric instead of KDR, I started thinking.

We all know the pros and cons (mostly cons) of KDR, and people will soon come to realize that SPM is twice as bad. In the perfect world they'd just present us with every stat they track, but for various reasons, mostly bad ones, they've decided that certain stats need to be emphasized. However, if certain stats do need to be emphasized, which one/s should they be?

It'd be great to have some long equation that took into account all stats, neglecting time spent in the gate, and returned a single, accurate, value that reflected player skill. Unfortunately, in 20+ years of first-person-shooter's nobody's been able to figure it out. The solution I have, though very far from perfect, is simple, and way better than what's in place and what's to come.

Score per death takes away the time factor, so you don't have to worry about time spent at the gate forming up with your outfit or general goofing around. You can run to the bathroom without having to worry about your global SPM dropping because of it. It also integrates support actions, which tends to be the major complaint among KDR opponents. With the dynamic XP they're introducing this month, SPD is the simplest statistic I can think of to measure player effectiveness.

Like I said, it's far from perfect. Some players sacrifice themselves in the line of fire as a distraction so that other forces can move up. I'm sure other play-styles won't benefit from it either. Lib gunners won't endure a lot of deaths, and while they won't have opportunity for many support points, they'll still have an inaccurate stat when dividing by deaths. However, with the devs unable to come up with any decent metric, I figured we might share our ideas in hopes that they come to their senses and realize this area of the game needs a lot of work.

Note: SPD negates bonus experience due to boosts.

[james]

Stats mean nothing end of discussion. A single number can not be a judgement of how good a player is.

[Chewy]

With so many roles that need done in PS2 there is no stat that makes a player "good".

The only way to really tell if a person is a good player is to see EVERY stat on demand that can be sorted by stat, class, vehicle, averages, or any way a person can think of.

[ZephyrBurst]

I see how that is better than KDR. My thought though, instead of emphasizing any stat, make the stats page in a scroll format or tabs that divide up them up by section. Such as total HP healed/repaired, # of players you've pissed off by Zephyr Bombing, etc. For the scoreboard, there could be categories based on class or type of stat.

In a game so heavy on team coordination, highlighting any one stat is a negative to me. It's not about the one, but the whole.

[Drakkonan]

I agree with you all, but the devs refuse to. They insist on making one stat more visible than the others. The question I'm posing, since they're taking this stance, is: What stat should they be using? There's got to be one that's better than the others.

[Chewy]

I agree with you all, but the devs refuse to. They insist on making one stat more visible than the others. The question I'm posing, since they're taking this stance, is: What stat should they be using? There's got to be one that's better than the others.

That's the thing, there isn't just one stat that can be used to give a player a value in a complex team-based game of this scale.

Just look at my and ZephyrBurst stats linked in our sigs. From those stat pages can you tell who is the better player?
K/D?
Him 1.38
Me .98
I SUCK next to him

K+Assist/D?
Him 1.91
Me 2.59
That goes to me

Headshots?
Him 382
Me 38
No contest. Him.

Damage given/taken?
Him 1.52
Me 1.28
So that's another for him

Facilities Defended/taken?
Him 1.18
Me 2.15
That's one for me

From what little stats those links have it's easy to see that he is the clearly better killer, yet Im a far better defender. He even has 16 full hours of more play time than me, but Im the one with 3 extra BR. There's also our main classes to take account of that change just about EVERYTHING when looking at stats to see who is better than who.

My main now is an engineer that either uses a shotgun with IR sights or the same shotgun with slugs and a 4X scope. In short, in the shit doing my role making certain that those I keep have only one asshole. ZephyrBurst mains an infiltrator that, Im assuming, uses a long range sniper with damn good aim and goes for the head. An unseen killer who strikes like iron.

There are no stats that tell who is the better player between us. And that's just due to our main classes alone. Those linked stat pages don't even touch what we really do in game to boot.

TL / DR
Without EVERY stat the game records, there is no way to see who is better. That's if they can even be compared to begin with.

[SeraphC]

Tbh for a part of the players any stats that may contain negative information reduce the amount of fun you have because you always have them in the back of your head. I'm not saying it's the case with everyone, but it's true for alot of people.

For instance I'll never rush out of a camped spawn because I know chances of me killing anyone before I die are slim. If my deaths weren't recorded I'd surely rush out arms blazing time after time until it was proven futile beyond a shadow of a doubt.

[MaxDamage]

Tbh for a part of the players any stats that may contain negative information reduce the amount of fun you have because you always have them in the back of your head. I'm not saying it's the case with everyone, but it's true for alot of people..

You do not speak for a lot of people. Do not try to.

Stats exist. These ones speak the truth and only the truth.

Some people can't handle the truth, that is their problem; not the stats.

K/D is a universally accepted measure of competence at killing in FPS/shooter games.
If you play more support roles than killing or spread your gameplay out between both then great - you're not in competition with dedicated killers are you.

Worry about your own, if you want to, just don't obsess over everyone elses. It's none of your damn business what we do with our game.

[SeraphC]

What exactly are you arguing with here?

You do not speak for a lot of people. Do not try to.

The mere fact that these threads keep popping up on the boards of just about every game that records deaths proves that I do speak for a lot of people. Note that I'm not saying the are a majority, I'm simply saying that it's not limited to a handful of players.

They feel misrepresented by the stats, which implies they care about it or at the very least are bothered that it's there.

Stats exist. These ones speak the truth and only the truth.

Some people can't handle the truth, that is their problem; not the stats.

K/D is a universally accepted measure of competence at killing in FPS/shooter games.
If you play more support roles than killing or spread your gameplay out between both then great - you're not in competition with dedicated killers are you.

I'm not saying they don't speak the truth. (For the record I'm very happy with my stats.) They do however speak a very narrow version of the truth, I think that has been established already. A game like EVE Online comes closer to doing it right. There kills and deaths are not valued by mere integers, but actually show a condensed log of the circumstances and the value of things killed/lost.

I'm also not arguing with the "universally accepted measure" that is k/d rate. I'm just saying that it causes you to restrain yourself (if you care about the stat) from doing stupid, but potentially very fun stuff.
There's a reason why games like Quake 3 don't show deaths directly. Same goes for most of the none shooter MMOs. They only record kills.

Worry about your own, if you want to, just don't obsess over everyone elses. It's none of your damn business what we do with our game.

I'm far from obsessing. I was also merely making an observation I wasn't judging anyone on either their k/d rate or whether or not they care about it. You shouldn't get so mad about things like that. (-> See what I did there? If you don't I'll explain it to you in the next post.)

[Jader]

Nonsense. The whole reason why KDR is so bad is that it makes people afraid/stressed out when they die. Linking any personal stat metric in this game to deaths would be no different from KDR.

[gunshooter]

There is no good metric for how good someone is, but KDR was a good metric for how bad someone is, at least - hated by the very people who were brought down to reality when they realized that people could see it.

If it's removed then any stat metrics will just be useless. You can grind anything. You can get 30-40k score/hour dropping ammo and repairing squad MAXes, which takes 0 skill. But at least the guy who can't aim will feel better about himself.

[Mox]

The k/d ratio isnt a problem. The problem is that the stats are public. In ps1 the k/d ratio was also displayed but only me could see it. And you know what? I gave a fuck on my k/d. Now everbody can see it. Even if i dont want them to see. So i have to change my playing behavoir to save my k/d.

I dont like this "everything is public"- privacy policy of ps2. I want to decide by myself if i want to share my stats and with whom.

[Ghoest9]

You can twist the game to pump up any possible stat - this is unavoidable.

The problem with K/D is that it twisted the game in a system that wasnt much fun for anyone except a few stat whores.
Having many of the bbest killers spend their time farming the newest and worst players was bad for everyone.

BR/time played does not promote something that is purely a bad experience.

[jsnipy]

No single number really, in my my mind its always been looking at: KDR, SPM, and, WLR.

Inside of KDR, is how kills are arrived at: a high KDR with a very high percentage being a gunner is not the same skill required in infantry.

Same with SPM. At least in this game there is a huge reward capping for capping vs standing around doling out ammo or being the guy with a sundy at the crown.

Not sure how WLR conveys in this game - failed defends, failed attacks?

[Aaron]

Player skill can only be accurately recorded and recognized by other players in-game. A voting or honoring system should be in place. Since a player's skill is whatever is perceived as skill by other players, this can be a more accurate system.

For instance, let enemies choose to give you a vote on skill if they think you killed them skillfully. There could be a little button on your death cap screen. There could even be different types of votes for friendlies: teamwork votes, sportsmanship votes, MVP votes.

Of course, there would have to be a system in place that would prevent major exploiting or "vote padding". There should be limits on how often and how much you can vote; and how much you can vote on one particular player.

[Electrofreak]

Player skill can only be accurately recorded and recognized by other players in-game. A voting or honoring system should be in place. Since a player's skill is whatever is perceived as skill by other players, this can be a more accurate system.

For instance, let enemies choose to give you a vote on skill if they think you killed them skillfully. There could be a little button on your death cap screen. There could even be different types of votes for friendlies: teamwork votes, sportsmanship votes, MVP votes.

Of course, there would have to be a system in place that would prevent major exploiting or "vote padding". There should be limits on how often and how much you can vote; and how much you can vote on one particular player.

It would be nearly impossible for this not to devolve into a popularity contest. I like the idea of letting enemies vote, but still, the well-known players will get votes while the skilled but unrecognized players often won't.

[Solkanarmy]

Stats exist. These ones speak the truth and only the truth.

Some people can't handle the truth, that is their problem; not the stats.


This is very true - whilst some may not like the deaths stat, it can be useful for improving your own play, if you want to - for example, I've had over 200 deaths to my own faction, many of which were me being run over by vehicles... the price of being an engineer as main class, I suppose :D

I would love stats on everything, with emphasis on the one you chose from the list, and maybe a 'quicklist' that you can pick on the main stats page. Amount repaired would be awesome to see too ^_^

I'd also like to see medals for each individual weapon, instead of by vehicle - I know they're being awarded because I see them and have the certs to prove it, but there's no way to check how many more kills to the next one.

For a 'coverall' stat, I'd like to suggest average placement in battles, based on scoreboard. This would favour people who played objectives - I've been pretty high up on there without firing a shot in some battles where ammo is key - but should still allow the k/d ratio aficionados to do their thing as normal :>

I'm very proud that I've recently managed to bump my overall K/D up to 0.6 \o/

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Stats 'worth' is vastly inflated in this game, since there's not much else to it.

Also, what is this bizarre fixation with swapping around 'metrics' to make something else 'more important'. It doesn't change anything, you'll still get people farming kills and you'll get people chasing the new 'metric'.

[Beerbeer]

Stats can say a lot.

Are you a vehicle whore? Stats can tell.
Do you like to camp empty bases? Stats can tell.

The only stat that impress me are those people with a ton of bases defended. They probably will have a low K/D ratio, but they try, maybe too stubbornly so based on curent game dynamics, but you know what, these rare people are what makes fights interesting; they understand the 'spirit' of the game better than most people, even if they are vehicle fodder.

I think I've seen ONE person who posts here who fits that mold. Just one, lol. Is he not so bright considering the circumstances? Maybe. But give this guy a defendable base and watch out.

I won't say his name, but I think the person knows who I am referring to. Good job, at least you try no matter if it's not really meant to be tried. One thing is for sure, I don't try anymore.

[typhaon]

KDR is as good a metric as any - but it should be augmented by showing KDR and raw stats for # of kills by weapon/vehicle... also time spent in vehicle, etc..

There will always be ways of massaging the numbers - but details like that would give us a better idea of who is good at what.

[BIGGByran]

Here maybe a good stat to display people's roles properly.

Assault Stat = K/D
Support Stat = Generally support roles in healing/repairing. Don't know how to measure this.

That way, you can see if someone is more of an assaulter or supporter.
"Hey! JimBob there has a horrible Assault Stat, but damn he does awesome as a support role. GET IN MY BELLY! Err Tank! You repair me!"

Maybe repair-heal/death. how much you repair or heal before you die as the "support stat"? Just an idea.

MAXX, Tanks, Aircraft could care less about horrible k/d ratio so long as their "support stat" is good.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

Stats 'worth' is vastly inflated in this game, since there's not much else to it.

Also, what is this bizarre fixation with swapping around 'metrics' to make something else 'more important'. It doesn't change anything, you'll still get people farming kills and you'll get people chasing the new 'metric'.

Yes, indeed.

I don't understand the proliferation of these threads.If you have a fixation with ranking and stats and whatever, (Instead of actually playing the game) the solution is very simple. Track everything and release the information publicly.

Then make a really good datamining spreadsheet API [buzzword buzzword] so that people can track player skill based on whichever metric they want to be known for.

I, personally, do not want KDR tracked. I'd rather be known for revives/death (as a medic behind the front lines, this is my major strength)

A good friend of mine is a massive libwhore (and I'm a medium libwhore) so we should be able to compare ourselves based on the "Libwhore" tab of the API program.

With the magical world of statistics and actuarial studies, we can surely come up with 500 metrics for player skill.

Since this game is combined arms and there are many ways to skin a cat, how is it possible to get "One score to rate them all?"

[BIGGByran]

@StumpyTheOzzie

I agree, but there are people out there, and I'm sure there are a lot, that use K/D as their stat and it shouldn't be taken away.

I agree about the ability to show every stat in the game, but only make it to where people who want to see every stat.

Instead make it simple and show 2 stats. "Offensive" and "Defensive" or whatever name you want to call it. "Assault" "Support" etc etc.

Offensive/Assault = K/D
Defensive/Support = Repair-Heals-Revives/D

And if you want more, click here and show ever stat ever tracked in the game. But I think the simplified version would be enough to show what role you play in this game.

Ex.
Joe1
Assault = 7.098
Support = 0.076

This shows he plays more offensive chars vs support roles

Joe2
Assault = 0.078
Support = 10.898

This shows that he plays more support role and pretty dang good at it.

Joe3
Assault = 3.089
Support = 5.099

This show that he is pretty well rounded.

You are also right, and I'm sure a lot of people think this way except those who strictly go by K/D, there is no 1 stat to sum up what a player does.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

yes, i see, I understand.

What you do not see (or care about) is that I am saying that the game is not simple enough to have any "overall" stat.

The game is too big, with too many specialities to be able to pigeonhole people into 2 categories.

Besides, you can still "game" any system and stat pad. And the only people who will REALLY care about what their stats say will be stat padding, so who cares?

Where does libwhore fit into your support / assault matrix? (Assume equal time gunning and piloting)

Are you saying that libwhores are excellent at everything? Massive high engineering "Repair" score and low deaths = good support. KDR of 20+ means good "assault" score too.

When I'm footing it, I generally have a KDR of about 0.7 (which is average I think. You have to pay the liberator tax. If they have kdrs of 20+ that means 20 people have kdrs of less than 1) So by that rationale, I'm rubbish at assaulting. However, someone has to be first through the door and my outfit is quite well trained (although very small) so in a strategic sense, the outfit is a very good assaulting outfit. We are usually the siege breakers that allow the zerg to come in and mop up.

So my personal "assault" stats suffer greatly in order to make the NC win.

Is that fair? Where's the metric for that? Can I please have a measurement for "Guts, spirit, heart and soul" please?

By making KDR a "thing" I'm not going to play to win. I'm going to play to stat-pad.


This is why any "score" or unified number or KDR or anything is a bad thing and is best left ignored or at least buried.

If you HAVE to have stats, then at least have them all so I can say "Yes, you have the most headshots, but I have the most generators destroyed and capture points flipped. So while you were spawncamping, and killing people in a game with no tickets, counters or penalties for death and infinite lives, I was winning the game"

[Chewy]

Stats can say a lot.

Are you a vehicle whore? Stats can tell.
Do you like to camp empty bases? Stats can tell.

The only stat that impress me are those people with a ton of bases defended. They probably will have a low K/D ratio, but they try, maybe too stubbornly so based on curent game dynamics, but you know what, these rare people are what makes fights interesting; they understand the 'spirit' of the game better than most people, even if they are vehicle fodder.

I think I've seen ONE person who posts here who fits that mold. Just one, lol. Is he not so bright considering the circumstances? Maybe. But give this guy a defendable base and watch out.

I won't say his name, but I think the person knows who I am referring to. Good job, at least you try no matter if it's not really meant to be tried. One thing is for sure, I don't try anymore.

:huh:
Is that a complement or an insult?

[BIGGByran]

@StumpyTheOzzie

I never said there should be an "overall" stat. I stated in my last post that there isn't 1 stat that can sum up a player.

It was just an idea, it doesn't have to have 2 categories, but it does need to be simple so people can see the kind of player you are instead of looking at your K/D.

Maybe we can change the system to:

Aircraft K/D then if you want to expand on that to ESF, Liberator, and Galaxy etc.
Vehicle K/D then if you want to expand on that to ES Tank, Lightning, Flash etc. (and still get more specific if you want down to K/D with specific guns but that just get a bit crazy for alot of people, but still available if you want)
Assault Inf K/D
Support Inf Revive-Heal-Repair/D

Hopefully this new matrix as you call it, fix the Libwhore you are talking about.

If you see people with 40 K/D with libs and he is the ONLY person with 40 K/D with libs, then he is either really good or cheating. You stated that 0.7 is average on foot. Well maybe 40 K/D is average on libs. There will be an average on all stats. Maybe 10 K/D on foot = 10000000 K/D on libs, but there will be an average and I don't know what that average is.

If K/D really means that much to you then maybe you shouldn't be carelessly charging in. To me, K/D is my own personal stat that I try to use to better myself. I try to improve it. Trying to improve my K/D doesn't mean that I spawn camp or never cap a point or never go to A and sit there, as I do that most to all of the time. I let other people spawn camp. I will spawn camp if 1. There is enough people on the points to capture the base 2. No one is watching the spawn room to prevent them from getting out to either spawn a sundy or capture a point. Spawn camp is boring, more excitement when you fight them in room, open fields, and whatever else.

This shouldn't hurt your "assault stats" as I am sure your not just carelessly charging in blind and shooting everywhere hoping to hit something. Being a siege breaker, I'm sure you know where to look, where to expect, and how to react to enemies better than most people. I understand sometimes it doesn't work out, but most of the time it does.

If you can show me a metric for "Guts, Spirit, Heart, and Soul" please let me know, I would love to see what mine looks like. Well actually you know what, there is a metric for that. I believe it is when you team members what to play with you, it won't be written down in paper, but it does show.

K/D only a few people care about it, and it doesn't have to be a bad thing. I use the K/D to improve myself. My K/D has been improving a lot lately and proud of it. I don't go flaunting it at people, I use it only to improve myself and just to see where I stand.

K/D and any kind of score is there for those who care. If you don't care then don't worry about it. I use to as an "improvement tool" for myself.

I completely agree with you on the "no penalties for death and infinite lives." I honestly thought about the idea of you only have 1 life per hex so that you are more cautious and careful, rather than just throwing away your life cause there is no penalty and you have infinite lives. I played and loved Rainbox Six when you spawn at a stage, if you die, thats it. You waited until the match is over with and then you start a new game. I never played COD or any of the "shot em up" games where it is based on how many kills you get, it was fun sure, but I liked it when you only have 1 life and there are 20 people all trying to kill each other to be the last man standing. Love that type of game. I wish they would implement that in this game but I don't think it would fit and it would be very hard if they did.

Maybe even a further to K/D on each class.

After typing all this, who cares, play the game and enjoy. Leave to anyone that really cares about K/D and points and ranking. I accept any rank they give and I will see where I stand. Other than that, I will enjoy the hell out of this game.

I been in and out and lost track of this reply. I hope it make sense lol sorry if it doesn't.

TL DR is fine by me.

Btw, how do people with 49570w58.00 kills to 0 deaths get that? How can they kill that many and not die?

[StumpyTheOzzie]

@StumpyTheOzzie

I never said there should be an "overall" stat. I stated in my last post that there isn't 1 stat that can sum up a player.

It was just an idea, it doesn't have to have 2 categories, but it does need to be simple so people can see the kind of player you are instead of looking at your K/D.

snip



Just ask them?

If K/D really means that much to you then maybe you shouldn't be carelessly charging in.


Nobody will charge in. Then we all die. It's best for the group for me to have a low kdr. I personally have "started the ball rolling" at the crown maybe 10 times this week, just by cajoling, motivating, abusing and insulting the sniping tanks in front of me. Once they start charging in, I can deploy my sunderer, the troopers pour out of it and we capture the crown.

-personal opinion stuff that I can't comment on.-

This shouldn't hurt your "assault stats" as I am sure your not just carelessly charging in blind and shooting everywhere hoping to hit something.

Dead wrong. I am just sprinting straight through the door with no objective other than to get behind the next bit of cover. I do not need a weapon at all. My job is to create a diversion, draw defenders away, create confusion and get shot at while the maxes follow me out 5 seconds later to actually do the killing.

Being a siege breaker, I'm sure you know where to look, where to expect, and how to react to enemies better than most people. I understand sometimes it doesn't work out, but most of the time it does.


nope. Sometimes you just need bait.


-stuff-
K/D only a few people care about it, and it doesn't have to be a bad thing. I use the K/D to improve myself. My K/D has been improving a lot lately and proud of it. I don't go flaunting it at people, I use it only to improve myself and just to see where I stand.


Pretty sure it's "the only stat" for about 75% of players.

K/D and any kind of score is there for those who care. If you don't care then don't worry about it. I use to as an "improvement tool" for myself.


I already said I con't care about any stats. MAYBE I care about bases capped/hour or bases defended. possibly. What I do care about is making esamir and amerish blue all the time. Which it is on my server.


I completely agree with you on the "no penalties for death and infinite lives." I honestly thought about the idea of you only have 1 life per hex so that you are more cautious and careful, rather than just throwing away your life cause there is no penalty and you have infinite lives.

Then it's not planetside. It's... counterstrike with 600 players? And then zerging would be the only way.


Additionally, your additions to the initial post (maybe a KDR for each class and modifications to kdr for libs in the assault score etc etc) are starting to look pretty complicated and in-depth.

Almost like my idea to track every single iota and make it completely customisable for anything you like. Then leave it up to "the market" to determine what stats, metrics, combos and values are the most suitable for whatever purpose.

[Drakkonan]

No one stat can represent 'effectiveness' in a game where there are roles other than support and assault. However, the point of this thread was to make light of the fact that the current solution of KDR only favors one role, and the coming solution of SPM introduces far more problems than it solves because of dividing by time in a non-round based game.

I'm asking the question; "What stat, though imperfect, would do a better job of representing player effectiveness?" and my answer is SPD. It represents support and assault players, and has no time factor which makes it better than both KDR and SPM. It's not perfect, like I said, but since the devs will always have one stat elevated, lets figure out which one is better than the others.

[coconut]

No one stat can represent 'effectiveness' in a game where there are roles other than support and assault. However, the point of this thread was to make light of the fact that the current solution of KDR only favors one role, and the coming solution of SPM introduces far more problems than it solves because of dividing by time in a non-round based game.


I don't understand your line of thinking here. In a round-based game, a per-round stat would be good. In a persistent, continuous game, per-minute is right if you want to put new and old players on an equal footing (which you want, right?).
It's true that K/D is also fair as far as time played is concerned, and this can be explained by seeing K/D as (kills per minute)/(deaths per minute). "per minute" is simplified away in the end result. Any measure that is part of your ideal stat has to be averaged over time in order to be fair to new players.


I'm asking the question; "What stat, though imperfect, would do a better job of representing player effectiveness?" and my answer is SPD. It represents support and assault players, and has no time factor which makes it better than both KDR and SPM. It's not perfect, like I said, but since the devs will always have one stat elevated, lets figure out which one is better than the others.

I don't agree with using deaths directly. They are only relevant to the extent that you aren't able of contributing to your team while dead. However, that's already accounted for in the fact that you won't be getting score while dead because you won't be killing, repairing, healing or flipping control points. There is an exception for base captures, but that's fine.

You also mentioned that SPM disadvantaged people spending time at the warp gate. Why is that a problem? Fine with me if all the slackers get a bad score.

Outfit members who wait for platoons to form up should have their loss made up by added effectiveness on the battlefield. If not, their outfit should learn to spend less time forming up ("administration" efficiency) and get better at winning on the battlefield (combat efficiency). These things matter.

[psijaka]

K/D is completely inappropriate in an objective based team game. The prominence given to K/D actually spoils the game somewhat for me, as I find myself drawn to my stats page at the end of a session to see how "well" I have performed, even though I know that K/D means very little.

As to what to replace it with? I'm not keen on the concept of Score/Death as this, like K/D, promotes looking after your own skin rather than playing for the greater good of your empire.

As stated by the OP, Score/minute has it's flaws too, but of all the simple measures available, it is probably the best.

S/M also has potential to be improved, by tweaking the amount of XP awarded for certain actions to more truely reflect skill and effort. For example:

- Introduce a defence bonus for a successful defence of a base (dependent upon how far the enemy had succeeded in taking over the base)

- Reduce the XP awarded if the player killed is within say 10m of their spawn point.

- Reduce the XP awarded from kills by HE rounds etc.

- increase the reward for capping a point.

etc etc.

[Kerrec]

For the sake of trying to define what the "best" metric would be for a game like Planetside 2, here is my proposal:

Looking at my stats page, I see there's an entry for Damage dealt. I propose that SOE lump this data point along with Damage healed, Damage repaired, hacks, etc...

Then track this over time. So something like a burster max will still generate a good score, even if he never gets kills, since he's performing his role as a "deterrant". Same with a medic that heals, or an engineer that repairs.

You could have one global value, and then a break down of the same value, but by class and by vehicle.

Only thing it doesn't account for, is the "bait" value...

[Assist]

I think the best metric for determining how good an individual is at the game is how many hate tells that person gets. I'm fairly certain that makes me the best player ever.

In about an hour yesterday I recieved tells about being a lib whore, auto shotty noob, vx6-7 VSOPcantwaitfornerf whore, and an OrionisOPusearealgun whore. Oh, and I forgot the "You just leech off your zerg outfit you noob".


Not in an Outfit
43 lifetime kills with the Liberator
Didnt even use the vx6-7 yesterday


Don't even count the "I can't wait until you're banned" hackusations.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

S/M also has potential to be improved, by tweaking the amount of XP awarded for certain actions to more truely reflect skill and effort. For example:

- Introduce a defence bonus for a successful defence of a base (dependent upon how far the enemy had succeeded in taking over the base)

- Reduce the XP awarded if the player killed is within say 10m of their spawn point.

- Reduce the XP awarded from kills by HE rounds etc.

- increase the reward for capping a point.

etc etc.

Did you play PS1? Cuz if you didn't that post is hilarious to me. If you did play PS1, I'll just add your post into my "vet talking sense/truth" collection.

[Cyridius]

SPM isn't twice as bad at all. In reality you get just as much if not more SPM reviving and repairing and generally supporting crap than you do killwhorring.

Honestly there should be for me some stats shown here;

Health Repaired
Health Healed
Revives
Ammo Resupplies
SPM
Bases Captured/Defended
And K/D should be shown somewhere but never be given the importance of other parts

[Drakkonan]

You also mentioned that SPM disadvantaged people spending time at the warp gate. Why is that a problem? Fine with me if all the slackers get a bad score.

Outfit members who wait for platoons to form up should have their loss made up by added effectiveness on the battlefield. If not, their outfit should learn to spend less time forming up ("administration" efficiency) and get better at winning on the battlefield (combat efficiency). These things matter.

That's not the way this game works. If I want the highest SPM, I'm going to login, hotdrop to the nearest biolab farm, and sit on the airpad throwing grenades and rezzing people. To a lesser extent, if I want a higher SPM, I can just go to the nearest zerg fight immediately. Outfit organized activities are generally far more useful, but rarely provide the points of the aforementioned activities. Even with dynamic xp, this won't change. 'Per death' works because there's never an excuse to die. You'll be put into situations by your outfit where you're more likely to die than you would be had you just gone with the zerg, but dying is always avoidable.

We shouldn't feel guilty about participating in 'fun' raids because they don't provide the point rate that zerging does. We shouldn't be punished even further for trying to have fun in our own ways with the game, or as you call it, "slacking". We're already being indirectly punished by not getting the experience we would be if we were fighting.

I'm not trying to say I spend all day dicking around in the warp gate, but if I chose to, I'd be nice to know my primary stat wasn't continuously decreasing.

Prepare for an influx of rambo medics.

[psijaka]

Did you play PS1? Cuz if you didn't that post is hilarious to me. If you did play PS1, I'll just add your post into my "vet talking sense/truth" collection.

Nope, didn't play PS1.

[TheRageTrain]

XP per minute.. Why give any stats.. just slam the score there and we\r done.

I\m not going to compete for any score per minutes. I\m not a frigging medic nor will play one to get a good xp per minute.

Well best resognition is when you get tell\s what say..something like, not you again and yells to pull vehicles and maxes because he\s here.

[Baneblade]

I ignore stats. I don't care if you are 5.5 KPD or .055 KPD.

My KPD would be a lot higher if I ran with the zerg instead of picking fights I'm not on the ideal side of.