New NC SMG, AF-4 Cyclone, is perfect for LAs and infiltrators.

[TGxCraig]

Here is the video review for the NC's AF-4 Cyclone:

PS2: AF-4 Cylclone New NC SMG Review (Close Range Death Machine) - YouTube

The gun is great. The close range damage and accuracy (low recoil) make it an excellent choice and the ability to get 35 rounds in a magazine mean it is great for taking on 3+ people at once. For light assaults and infiltrators that flank a lot, the gun is simply Heaven.

[psijaka]

+1.

I want one!

I can see that this is the perfect gun for LA, but should infils be getting these at all?

[ShadetheDruid]

Yeah, the Cyclone seemed pretty good when I trialed it for 30 minutes. Unfortunately I don't really play a class that would make good use of SMGs with my NC character, but i'm still going back and forth with myself about getting the Eridani to use with my VS LA.

I trialed that and liked it, but I don't know what the next lot of SMGs they're doing are going to be like, so I don't know whether to hold off until they come out.

[Stellarthief]

I trialed the VS version. But didn't find any benefits over my VX6-7. On the otherhand my carbine has better range than the SMG allowing me to get a few kills on the way to CQC.

[Baneblade]

The SMG obsoleted over two hundred dollars of my SC unlocked weapons. I use it for every class to great effect. It has become my outfit's gun of choice.

It is just as awesome for HA as it is for LA.

[Sturmhardt]

It's perfect for LA, but infiltrators should not have that kind of firepower. They should be the lurkers in the shadows and/or snipers, not invisible rambos.

[Utne]

It's perfect for LA, but infiltrators should not have that kind of firepower. They should be the lurkers in the shadows and/or snipers, not invisible rambos.

Fair enough. Then give infiltrators the abillity to lurk and do stuff. A 12 second shimmering blob of a "cloak" that can't be extended duration-wise makes them unable to do anything but snipe.

With the SMG, atleast infiltrators have the chance of killing stuff in CQC instead of just being free certs for anyone with working eye-sight. :p

Untill then, SMG it is!

[coconut]

It's perfect for LA, but infiltrators should not have that kind of firepower. They should be the lurkers in the shadows and/or snipers, not invisible rambos.

People have been complaining that infiltrators had no proper weapons for CQB, and the SMGs address that issue. I have been on the receiving end and I feel your pain, but on the other hand infiltrators have basically no shield, especially if they use their cloak. They may kill one or two guys, but they can't really take on more than that, if the opponents are decent players.

I wonder if giving SMGs to HA wasn't a mistake. If you combine the deadliness of SMGs in CQB with the "invincibility" offered by the HA shield, you get a major source of frustration for the victim: You get the feeling you are shooting bubbles at your enemy.

I haven't tried the weapon yet, but I'm afraid I'll just have to buy it for CQB if it's as good as it seems, otherwise I won't stand a chance.
Did anyone say pay2win? Personally I think that's OK, I don't mind supporting SOE for providing us with a good game, but I thought that's something they really wanted to avoid.

[Deadeye]

The SMG obsoleted over two hundred dollars of my SC unlocked weapons. I use it for every class to great effect. It has become my outfit's gun of choice.

It is just as awesome for HA as it is for LA.

I know how you guys feel.

The gun hits decently hard, has excellent accuracy and reloads quick. I haven't tried long range with it but anyone under 20 feet is in for a hurting.

If there's one thing about the gun, it's got a low number of bullet and I had to use my trusty rebel to finish off a couple guys when in one of those super short range turning fights. The extended mag should fix that though as the gun doesn't really need the laser sight.

I stuck a suppressor and NV scope on mine so far.

[psijaka]

It's perfect for LA, but infiltrators should not have that kind of firepower. They should be the lurkers in the shadows and/or snipers, not invisible rambos.

Agree with this. I'm very tempted to run infiltrator with this gun just out of devilment, but it somehow feels as if it will be just so wrong.

Fair enough. Then give infiltrators the abillity to lurk and do stuff. A 12 second shimmering blob of a "cloak" that can't be extended duration-wise makes them unable to do anything but snipe.

With the SMG, atleast infiltrators have the chance of killing stuff in CQC instead of just being free certs for anyone with working eye-sight. :p

Untill then, SMG it is!

Infils already have the ability to sneak in if they play their cards right, but they were rightly gimped by not being able to carry a decent CQC weapon. Giving them a weapon as potent as this is just over the top; the perfect griefing class; bound to lead to trouble.

What next? Infils with shotguns?

[Dkamanus]

I sincerely use it only on my infiltrator, which is something VERY awesome. On my LA, I still run with my Gauss Compact S with UBSGL for utility.

[Ghoest9]

It's perfect for LA, but infiltrators should not have that kind of firepower. They should be the lurkers in the shadows and/or snipers, not invisible rambos.

?

This is a good gun but its not exceptionally powerful. It has less power than a CQC carbine. It has way less power than a shotgun(up close.)

And its range is highly limited.

What makes this gun stand out really is that exchanges range for extreme ease of use. The damage up close is roughly average compared to other normal guns.

I think its exactly what infs should be able to carry.

[Utne]

Agree with this. I'm very tempted to run infiltrator with this gun just out of devilment, but it somehow feels as if it will be just so wrong.



Infils already have the ability to sneak in if they play their cards right, but they were rightly gimped by not being able to carry a decent CQC weapon. Giving them a weapon as potent as this is just over the top; the perfect griefing class; bound to lead to trouble.

What next? Infils with shotguns?

I thought the fact that they had less overall health than all other classes was that counter. It's 12 seconds of being semi-translucent coupled with a noise when you enter or exit the cloak. What, are LA's completely OP because their jetpack is silent and they can sneak up on people as well? They can even do it with a shotgun if they want to.

I've got the SMG for my infiltrator, and it's great fun, but it doesn't allow me to do anything I couldn't do as a LA. They still flank just as well(or better, depending on who you talk to).

It's basically a carbine with less bullets(25), that performs terrible at range. Anything outside of 20-30m isn't worth engaging.

Shotguns/carbines are still superior in CQC to the SMG.

[Ghoest9]

I wonder if giving SMGs to HA wasn't a mistake. If you combine the deadliness of SMGs in CQB with the "invincibility" offered by the HA shield, you get a major source of frustration for the victim: You get the feeling you are shooting bubbles at your enemy.


???


I haven't tried the weapon yet, but I'm afraid I'll just have to buy it for CQB if it's as good as it seems, otherwise I won't stand a chance.



Honestly if you have no idea what you are talking about - stop talking???


This gun does less damage than many LMGs. It has a MUCH smaller clip. And its range is really shot.
It has a role for a class like HA but its mostly for average and worse type players who are willing to give up range and capacity for ease of use.

[Figment]

What next? Infils with shotguns?

Sadly, that was the previous step in beta. ;p



As a long term infil (again, 8-9 years of PS1 playing 80% of my time as infil), pistols and limited explosives are sufficient. Infils need meaningful objectives to open passages to their allies, sabotage and have some sort of advantage in taking over by stealth.

Melee power for infils sure, but basically we're talking AMP cloakers froms PS1 here, those wern't infiltrating, but people continuously looking for quick and easy kills. But at least the SMG of that time period was inferior to shotguns and rifles in all aspects but size and slot needed, including TTK, accuracy, clip and range.

[Utne]

Sadly, that was the previous step in beta. ;p



As a long term infil (again, 8-9 years of PS1 playing 80% of my time as infil), pistols and limited explosives are sufficient. Infils need meaningful objectives to open passages to their allies, sabotage and have some sort of advantage in taking over by stealth.

Melee power for infils sure, but basically we're talking AMP cloakers froms PS1 here, those wern't infiltrating, but people continuously looking for quick and easy kills. But at least the SMG of that time period was inferior to shotguns and rifles in all aspects but size and slot needed, including TTK, accuracy, clip and range.

I'd prefer not having sniper rifles, scout rifles and SMG's if it made infiltrators what they were in PS1.

So much cooler. :cool:

[ShadetheDruid]

I'd prefer not having sniper rifles, scout rifles and SMG's if it made infiltrators what they were in PS1.

So much cooler. :cool:

With the customisation system we have, there's no reason the different infil playstyles can't co-exist. They just need to all be supported.

[duomaxwl]

I'd prefer getting a cert system for the old unlimited cloak, complete invisible while standing still and can only use a pistol/firing while cloaked. Until that happens, I'm perfect fine with cloakers having SMGs.

[Sturmhardt]

I thought the fact that they had less overall health than all other classes was that counter. It's 12 seconds of being semi-translucent coupled with a noise when you enter or exit the cloak. What, are LA's completely OP because their jetpack is silent and they can sneak up on people as well? They can even do it with a shotgun if they want to.

I've got the SMG for my infiltrator, and it's great fun, but it doesn't allow me to do anything I couldn't do as a LA. They still flank just as well(or better, depending on who you talk to).

It's basically a carbine with less bullets(25), that performs terrible at range. Anything outside of 20-30m isn't worth engaging.

Shotguns/carbines are still superior in CQC to the SMG.

???

This gun does less damage than many LMGs. It has a MUCH smaller clip. And its range is really shot.
It has a role for a class like HA but its mostly for average and worse type players who are willing to give up range and capacity for ease of use.

I don't know if we are using the same cyclone - I bought it and it fucking rips everything apart on close to medium range with the two laser sights and a compensator. It's not of much use on longer ranges, but it doesn't need to be. If I use the SMG and see you first within a certain range (close to med) you WILL die. Nobody can react so fast, you are just dead meat. The clip may be small, but the damage per bullet seems to be high enough to drop anyone within splitseconds. Reloadtime is so small I can easily reload between encounters. These things are as powerful as shotguns on close range, and they were taken away from infils for a good reason during beta and I hope they take the SMGs away from them too.

There is no other NC gun I have used that is that strong and mobile in QCQ. The GD-7F comes close with it's high ROF, but is much harder to control.

SMGs are REALLY strong if you know how to aim and I believe they should not be in infiltrator hands because we already have flying rambos (LA), we don't need invisible rambos.

[Stellarthief]

Can anyone take a look and post the stats to the new SMGs?

[ShadetheDruid]

Can anyone take a look and post the stats to the new SMGs?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Amnj8jnZLDIOdFBVY1JMVjBHR3AzeUpMWUQ4dHlyR mc&output=html

[Stellarthief]

Holy crap @ NC version. 167 damage per hit.

[Baneblade]

It has the dmg and low clip NC weapons are supposed to have, but accuracy rivaling the other empires. I use it with the Reflex sight and extended mag (havent felt a need to use anything else yet) and it performs great in CQB, and is still competitive at medium range with the sight.

It has replaced the Sweeper as my weapon of choice.

[Dragonskin]

I picked up the VS smg and love it. It really fits my playstyle because I like to be up closer to the action with my Engie. It's also amazing for the infiltrators.. SMG + the added effect of cloak canceling laser sights = beast mode. Makes me glad that I didn't buy the Artemis because I feel the SMG completely replaces it.

It does get out performed by range.. it has a small clip size and chews through bullets fast. So I think the gun is actually fairly balanced.

[Dragonskin]

Holy crap @ NC version. 167 damage per hit.

NC version is also the slowest firing of the three 650 or so rmp with the VS in the middle at 750 rmp and the TR at 845 rmp.

[MrBloodworth]

It's perfect for LA, but infiltrators should not have that kind of firepower. They should be the lurkers in the shadows and/or snipers, not invisible rambos.

Um, now they are Infiltrators.

in·fil·trate (n-fltrt, nfl-)
v. in·fil·trat·ed, in·fil·trat·ing, in·fil·trates
v.tr.
1.
a. To pass (troops, for example) surreptitiously into enemy-held territory.
b. To penetrate with hostile intent: infiltrate enemy lines; terrorists that had infiltrated the country.
2. To enter or take up positions in gradually or surreptitiously, as for purposes of espionage or takeover: infiltrated key government agencies with spies.

[Stellarthief]

NC version is also the slowest firing of the three 650 or so rmp with the VS in the middle at 750 rmp and the TR at 845 rmp.

That's more than adequate RoF to completely own you from the side or behind before you can react.

[Dragonskin]

That's more than adequate RoF to completely own you from the side or behind before you can react.

What gun can't you own some one from the side or behind with?

[Sturmhardt]

What gun can't you own some one from the side or behind with?

Many, my NS11a for example. You are not INSTANTLY dead if I shoot at you with it, so if you are smart you start sprinting after the first shot hits you and you might get away. With the SMG there is literally no chance to get away. That's okay for a CQC weapon in general, but in the hands of an invisible man... I don't know.

[Stellarthief]

Many, my NS11a for example. You are not INSTANTLY dead if I shoot at you with it, so if you are smart you start sprinting after the first shot hits you and you might get away. With the SMG there is literally no chance to get away. That's okay for a CQC weapon in general, but in the hands of an invisible man... I don't know.

exactly.

in CQC it's deadly accurate, still has high RoF, low recoil, high bullet damage and if you manage your ammo a lightning fast reload time.

The VS one I find balance with my carbine. But this NC one looks fantastic. Would love to use it myself

[Utne]

Many, my NS11a for example. You are not INSTANTLY dead if I shoot at you with it, so if you are smart you start sprinting after the first shot hits you and you might get away. With the SMG there is literally no chance to get away. That's okay for a CQC weapon in general, but in the hands of an invisible man... I don't know.

TTK is low on all weapons. And shotgun TTK beats SMG TTK in CQC.

And I'd love to meet some of these invisible men you're talking about. I see shimmering people all over, but that must be my contact lenses acting up. :p

[Figment]

Um, now they are Infiltrators.

No, they're not infiltrators.


They're assassins.

assassin - a murderer (especially one who kills a prominent political figure) who kills by a surprise attack and often is hired to do the deed; "his assassins were hunted down like animals"; "assassinators of kings and emperors"

[KaskaMatej]

They're assassins.

LA is better at assassinating.

[duomaxwl]

LA is better at assassinating.

No, they aren't. I just ran around Alkali Storage wiping the floor with everybody as an Infil + Cyclone. It was a glorious 13/2 in a smaller fight. I foresee me doing Infil+Cyclone much more often (hell, I could see me replacing my GD-22 with the AF-4 and mag extension on my Heavy.)

I had been very disappointed that Planetside 2 Infiltrators were snipers and not much more, but now I'm glad they have some kind of new weapon. It's still not Planetside 1 cloaking unfortunately, frag grenade + melee booster was the ultimate assassin setup.

[Mriswith]

I've used it a lot on my infiltrator (200+ kills) and I can't say it's all that good if compared to the good carbines / assault rifles / lmg's the other classes have.
I've been using it with silencer / Adv laser sight, and it's hipfire is pretty damn awesome, I can't really see how the extended mag is really even an option above the laser sight tbh, especially since with it's limited amount of ammo you really do need to be close just to get enough bullets on targets to drop people.
The main issue is however yes..., ammo but for VS at least the reload time with a bullet in the mag is pretty quick and since your going stealth every time you reload that's not the big issue, the amount of ammo is though, 25 in mag / 125 spares is far far to few almost to the point where I think it's worth getting the Ammo Pouch leveled up.

Sadly however much I really enjoy running around with it (silenced) and using proximity mines and similar to cover myself while hacking turrets / consoles I can't really see how any other class could really prefer it above their own weapons (for example the VX6-7 for LA/Engineer, and to whoever mentioned HA/Medic CQC weapons -> honestly just use a shotgun).

TL;DR: Awesome for Infiltrators a must buy if you prefer being sneaky in combat using mines and like to hack a lot.
Not very awesome for the other classes since their weapons choices include a range of better / more fitting weapons for almost every situation with very few exceptions (I find using the Nova shotgun with extended mags is better in practically every aspect and situation especially as LA).

[TGxCraig]

It is just as awesome for HA as it is for LA.

I keep seeing people mentioning that it is a good match up with the HA class, I need to try it out.

Can anyone take a look and post the stats to the new SMGs?

Did you not watch the video? I showed (and talked about) the weapon stats as well as provided a link to the Google Docs page with all the weapon stats.

Any how... So glad to see a great discussion here. Some very good ideas and tactics.

[AThreatToYou]

>AF-4 is OP compared to other ones, if we look at stats.

Infiltrator should have these weapons. Cloaked infiltrators are hardly invisible and certainly easy to detect if they are moving. If you're looking for them, they might as well be uncloaked aside from at night.

Now, I've used the AF-4, got silver medal in 30 minutes. It certainly doesn't seem any weaker, which is a good thing, but I'm afraid the other SMGs might be inferior to it and they also seem inferior to some standard weapons. I believe the Eridani should receive a 30 round clip at stock.

[Eliphas]

OMG, Infiltrators have a awesome close quarters weapon......... ALL A BOARD THE NERFF TRAIN!!! Some one should do some thing they should only be allowed bolt action rifles and a weak ass pistol to call on in CQC.

[TGxCraig]

>AF-4 is OP compared to other ones, if we look at stats.

Not really. It's only got the faster reload for short, same 3 second for long. It does have a better damage per magazine, but the TR has the fastest TTK and when you add the fact that it has the lowest recoil you will have fewer missed shots. They did a good job a balancing, but I think that the AF-4 gives a better diversity to it's faction than do the other two SMGs.

[Ghoest9]

I don't know if we are using the same cyclone - I bought it and it fucking rips everything apart on close to medium range with the two laser sights and a compensator. It's not of much use on longer ranges, but it doesn't need to be. If I use the SMG and see you first within a certain range (close to med) you WILL die. Nobody can react so fast, you are just dead meat. The clip may be small, but the damage per bullet seems to be high enough to drop anyone within splitseconds. Reloadtime is so small I can easily reload between encounters. These things are as powerful as shotguns on close range, and they were taken away from infils for a good reason during beta and I hope they take the SMGs away from them too.

There is no other NC gun I have used that is that strong and mobile in QCQ. The GD-7F comes close with it's high ROF, but is much harder to control.

SMGs are REALLY strong if you know how to aim and I believe they should not be in infiltrator hands because we already have flying rambos (LA), we don't need invisible rambos.

If you think the SMG is stronger than other guns thats because you are below average shooter and dont realize it.(Nothing to be ashamed of Im not a particularly good shooter myself.)

The SMG is easier to hit stuff for bad shots for 2 reasons.

1 Low bloom/recoil people who tend to miss quite a few of there shots can keep spraying and eventually kill stuff(if it doesnt kill them first.)

2 Its recoil vector is vertical - close quarter carbines have slanted recoil which is harder to use.

The good shot players arent much affexcted by these to challenges. This gun wont make great player even better it will make unimpressive players better up close. but it makes everyone worse at range.

[Ghoest9]

Many, my NS11a for example. You are not INSTANTLY dead if I shoot at you with it, so if you are smart you start sprinting after the first shot hits you and you might get away. With the SMG there is literally no chance to get away. That's okay for a CQC weapon in general, but in the hands of an invisible man... I don't know.

The NS11a is one of the worst damage weapons in the game. It trades damage for everything else being nice. Much like the SMGs trade range for everything else being nice.

But if you use the NS11a a lot - no wonder you think this gun is powerful. the The NS11a is another gun designed for below average players where they trade off 1 important trait to get a gun that is much easier to use.

[Ghoest9]

And Figment - stop selling the lie that infs are ok.
They have been the weakest and least useful class since release. I play one a lot because they do specific things well - namely hack. But they were a joke compared to every other class unless you want to snipe.

[TGxCraig]

And Figment - stop selling the lie that infs are ok.
They have been the weakest and least useful class since release. I play one a lot because they do specific things well - namely hack. But they were a joke compared to every other class unless you want to snipe.

I wouldn't say they are the weakest, but most useless seems like a good descriptor.

[Figment]

And Figment - stop selling the lie that infs are ok.

I'm sorry, what did you just say?

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=41034&highlight=schizo+class

http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/what-you-lot-are-missing-out-on-ps1-infil-vids.68939/



How about you stop spreading lies about what I supposedly spread?


How about you count the five million times I said there's no infiltrator class in PS2, just a snipefil and now a SMGfil? (Sado-Masochistic Gankerfil).

How about you read about how I want a permanent cloak back, like in PS1, with just pistols and explosives for sabotage and subterfuge and that the current "infiltrator" class design IS ABSOLUTELY HORRENDOUS?

[Mox]

SMG for infi is OP. i bough it and i tried it. Absolutly bad idea to bring it to the infi.

[Stellarthief]

Did you not watch the video? I showed (and talked about) the weapon stats as well as provided a link to the Google Docs page with all the weapon stats.

No :D Videos blocked at work.

[Sifer2]

Funny in the video it says they don't excel at medium range. But then he kills a Heavy using his shield from the other end of the tower lol.

Still I don't think they look too OP. Except giving them to Infiltrators is silly. Infiltrators already got the Scout Rifles, and will soon probably have access to the new Pistols they are adding. Making them so good in close combat is a mistake IMO. Been trying to avoid having to jump on the IR scope fad as I like to see the world in color but if they keep buffing Infiltrator like this its going to be necessity.

[Utne]

Funny in the video it says they don't excel at medium range. But then he kills a Heavy using his shield from the other end of the tower lol.

Still I don't think they look too OP. Except giving them to Infiltrators is silly. Infiltrators already got the Scout Rifles, and will soon probably have access to the new Pistols they are adding. Making them so good in close combat is a mistake IMO. Been trying to avoid having to jump on the IR scope fad as I like to see the world in color but if they keep buffing Infiltrator like this its going to be necessity.

I don't think you've tried the scout rifles then. They're absolutely atrocious. Like utterly, utterly terribad.

SMG's are good for infiltrators, I won't deny that, but the kills I've been getting I could easily've been LA and done the same tbh.

I'd rather the entire class became more viable at actual infiltration than this CQC style, but untill that becomes relevant I think infs having SMG's is pretty fair.

Otherwise they're just snipers, and that's just no fun for actual teamplay. :(

[ShadetheDruid]

:rolleyes:

Just because the current infiltrator class doesn't support your playstyle, doesn't mean it's a bad class. It's not exactly making us snipers want to support you in getting your stalker cloak option if you keep denying us our place in the game.

[Stellarthief]

I don't think you've tried the scout rifles then. They're absolutely atrocious. Like utterly, utterly terribad.

SMG's are good for infiltrators, I won't deny that, but the kills I've been getting I could easily've been LA and done the same tbh.

I'd rather the entire class became more viable at actual infiltration than this CQC style, but untill that becomes relevant I think infs having SMG's is pretty fair.

Otherwise they're just snipers, and that's just no fun for actual teamplay. :(

I agree.

I also think though that not just with infil, but all classes, needs to be more "alternative" ways to play and contribute instead of just killing. These things should be unique to the class. We have hacking (not enough stuff to hack and not enough important stuff to hack), repairing (enough to repair), medic (enough to heal), but the other classes are left out completely. Without killing enemies there isn't really any contribution that the other classes have and also offer nothing to teamplay besides another gun.

Would like to see them put to some other teamplay/tactical use. Was thinking just for example to get people away from living with their engi/tank/ESF/etc. combo that each class can offer a unique bonus when seated in a vehicle. Just an example, HA can use their personal shields to give vehicles a temporary shield too.

[Nur]

To me SMG seems too strong atm.

I hope they will be nerfed soon as they did for the vulcan turret on prowlers (that WAS OP and now is just normal)

If they nerf the SMG a bit, it's fine.

Now I feel them quite too strong. If as an HA I start thinking to remove my T7 chain gun or my heavy weapon for a SMG there is something that is missing....

Otherwise soon you will see all people with SMG in close quarters

Do you agree?

P.s. I play on CERES, Terran faction

[Utne]

:rolleyes:

Just because the current infiltrator class doesn't support your playstyle, doesn't mean it's a bad class. It's not exactly making us snipers want to support you in getting your stalker cloak option if you keep denying us our place in the game.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be snipers. They have a purpose, and if people want to play as a sniper I think that's just fine. But as you touched upon earlier(atleast I think it was you?) the current class custimization could allow both play-styles to be a viable choice. I don't think snipers should be neutered, I'd just like other infiltrator play-styles to be more viable aswell. :)


I agree.

I also think though that not just with infil, but all classes, needs to be more "alternative" ways to play and contribute instead of just killing. These things should be unique to the class. We have hacking (not enough stuff to hack and not enough important stuff to hack), repairing (enough to repair), medic (enough to heal), but the other classes are left out completely. Without killing enemies there isn't really any contribution that the other classes have and also offer nothing to teamplay besides another gun.


Yeah, there is room for improvements in this department, absolutely. More important stuff to hack(and then doing actual infiltrating to get there) would be a nice touch. Makes it feel like you're aiding your team. :)

edit: I'm derailing the topic, sorry. :p

[ShadetheDruid]

I'm not sure what you're getting at, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be snipers. They have a purpose, and if people want to play as a sniper I think that's just fine. But as you touched upon earlier(atleast I think it was you?) the current class custimization could allow both play-styles to be a viable choice. I don't think snipers should be neutered, I'd just like other infiltrator play-styles to be more viable aswell. :)

Yeah, sorry, my comment wasn't directed at you in particular, I should've clarified. :p It was more of a general comment on the last few posts.

There's definitely room in the design of the class system for all playstyles, not just for infiltrators but for all classes (though infiltrator is currently the only one I can think of that's missing a major "archetype", except maybe engie). Just gets frustrating when people's reaction to not having their playstyle supported is to shit on people who's playstyle is.

[psijaka]

Sadly, that was the previous step in beta. ;p

As a long term infil (again, 8-9 years of PS1 playing 80% of my time as infil), pistols and limited explosives are sufficient. Infils need meaningful objectives to open passages to their allies, sabotage and have some sort of advantage in taking over by stealth.

As someone who has played infil quite a lot in PS2 I would agree with this.

Hacking is occasionally a powerful tool; being able to sneak in, hack a terminal and pull a sunderer at the right time can be a base winner. But this is very situational indeed; usually I'm only making a nuisance of myself by hacking a turret or whatever.

[Stellarthief]

was vehicle hijacking in beta?

Why was this completely left out. vehicle hijacking (cert) and hacking protection (cert) would certainly create a more dynamic environment. Add an element of risk when you exit your vehicle.

You can spawn vehicles like crazy as it is. I'd like to see this put in.

[Hmr85]

was vehicle hijacking in beta?

No, it was not in Beta. We are not sure why they left it out but we can only hope that it makes a return at some point later down the road.

[Sturmhardt]

The NS11a is one of the worst damage weapons in the game. It trades damage for everything else being nice. Much like the SMGs trade range for everything else being nice.

But if you use the NS11a a lot - no wonder you think this gun is powerful. the The NS11a is another gun designed for below average players where they trade off 1 important trait to get a gun that is much easier to use.

Are you serious? You are saying I'm a bad shot because I can instakill with the smg and use a very accurate ads rifle with low DPS? Hm.

I use these weapons because I like to move while firing and for that purpose those weapons are awesome. This is part of why the SMG is so powerful, because you can move really fast while firing accurately at your opponent. Why you would say someone who uses accurate weapons is a bad shot is beyond me.

.sent via phone.

[Baneblade]

Ghoest9 wouldn't know skill if it spawn camped him off Auraxis.

[Rbstr]

I think the VS SMG is pretty well balanced. I spent most of the weekend using it on most of my classes. It may be a bit better at run and gun close range than the Serpent/VX6 and HV but those weapons out class it spectacularly in outdoorsish medium range situations. It works for me as a shotgun replacement on LA because I find myself just-to-far-for-a-shotgun fairly often.
I like it mainly because it looks and sounds pretty cool.

It's nice to have it as an Infil...Of course I hardly play infil at all. In fights I think they're simply translucent shimmery little balls of experience unless they're sniping. This helps them do a little more. Being a sniper negates hacking which is fairly powerful.
IMO, bring back the ability to shoot or maybe just drop mines and hack while cloaked.

[TGxCraig]

edit: I'm derailing the topic, sorry. :p

Ha. Yea, but there are still a few people talking about the SMGs, so I forgive you.

[coconut]

As someone who has played infil quite a lot in PS2 I would agree with this.

Hacking is occasionally a powerful tool; being able to sneak in, hack a terminal and pull a sunderer at the right time can be a base winner. But this is very situational indeed; usually I'm only making a nuisance of myself by hacking a turret or whatever.

Not to contradict you, but I thought I would report on a situation where we were 2 VS manning 2 of the guns at the eastern entrance of Tawrich Techplant, facing a tank column and quite a few reavers and NC libs.
I was manning the AA, the other guy was switching between AA and AV turrets, I think. We were doing a good job of keeping the NC force away.

That is, until a single infiltrator came and hacked our turrets. The bastard didn't even kill us. Just came, hacked the manned turrets last and ran away. This must have been a coordinated attack, because the NC main force got rolling immediately and completely crushed all two of us (and the late comers who don't realize that these two eastern towers are worth manning almost all the time).

A decisive move by a single infiltrator that decided the fate of the tech plant.

[coconut]

To me SMG seems too strong atm.

I hope they will be nerfed soon as they did for the vulcan turret on prowlers (that WAS OP and now is just normal)

If they nerf the SMG a bit, it's fine.

Now I feel them quite too strong. If as an HA I start thinking to remove my T7 chain gun or my heavy weapon for a SMG there is something that is missing....

Otherwise soon you will see all people with SMG in close quarters

Do you agree?

P.s. I play on CERES, Terran faction

I was afraid HA + SMGs would be too strong too, but on the other hand, maybe there are not.
With the SMG I tend to reload after each kill, meaning I do about one kill per mag, or 5 kills before I need to get back to an engineer. I could get a few more, but I would have to risk headshots.
With the SVA-88 I can kill almost as many enemies with a single mag, and I keep the ability to use the high volume of fire for suppression and pre-firing.

I think maybe they should make an infiltrator-specific SMG that's a bit worse than the current ones, but leave the current one untouched. It's a lot of fun to use the current SMGs as a flanking LA, but if you nerf them the carbines are better.

Considering that SOE already tried shotguns + INF and decided against it, and SOE also did not want to let infiltrators use carbines, I think there is a need for something slightly worse than a carbine but still better than pistols for CQC.
What about a short-TTK, high-recoil, short-range with large ammo reserves? Slightly worse than a carbine, small mag, but with lots of ammo.

[Neutral Calypso]

I would tend to agree with everyone who surmised that the SMG is an excellent weapon for hacker infiltrators.

For those who think it is good as an LA or an HA... dream on.

My MSW-R still kicks more ass than the SMG ever could and my LA can deal damage at longer range with a Jaguar using fewer rounds per kill.

[ShadetheDruid]

For those who think it is good as an LA or an HA... dream on.

My MSW-R still kicks more ass than the SMG ever could and my LA can deal damage at longer range with a Jaguar using fewer rounds per kill.

Well if you're someone who specialised their gear for CQC, then I can see how an SMG might not be useful to you. But for those of us who specialised our gear for mid range, SMGs could be useful as a secondary loadout to switch to when we need/want a bit more CQC power.

Me? I went with the Solstice SF for mid range (plus underbarrel for demolitions). Sure, I could get the VX6-7, but i'd rather have something a little different than another carbine.

[lizardjoel]

for all of you people worried about "invisible men with cqc weapons" http://i47.tinypic.com/2w722pc.png OH CRAP SO STEALTHY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=26xfBWBsmR8 I definitely couldn't see that!

I mean really, every time a non LA class gets something kinda good for it you people come out of the shadows and attack it until it gets nerfed, if youre consistently getting snuck up on by THAT than Light Assaults should be destroying you in fights!

[Figment]

Smokeshot, that is not how they render on high end rigs.

And you seem to misunderstand: I would be sneaking up, I know what I can do with it. A lot more even than a super fast rof sniperrifle shotgun or actual shotgun.

But hey, let us all pretend we are crap players and balance on that, instead of being concerned with becoming overpowered for all the wrong reasons with a weapon that yet again doesn't promote stealth gameplay for infiltrators.



For the record, I play a lot of LA because it is better at sneaking sabotage than the infiltrator right now, that is my concern; mobility, stealth and appropriate objective placement. Firepower be damned.

[ShadetheDruid]

..with a weapon that yet again doesn't promote stealth gameplay for infiltrators.

Yes it does. Just because it's not your kind of stealth gameplay, doesn't mean that it's not (bearing in mind I do support the need for a stalker cloak and more things for those types of infils to do).

[Figment]

Yes it does. Just because it's not your kind of stealth gameplay, doesn't mean that it's not (bearing in mind I do support the need for a stalker cloak and more things for those types of infils to do).

I see where you're coming from as ambush is greatly enhanced with a stealth element, but I make very clear distinctions between the two. :/ To me, it doesn't promote stealth gameplay (constantly trying to stay hidden to reach objectives), it promotes ambush killwhoring(constantly losing your veil on purpose to get a kill).

To me the difference is which element amplifies and stimulates what type of player interaction and behaviour in the world. In the first case, the weapons are weak enough to stimulate using stealth to remain hidden and discourage fighting. The weapons are the extra.

While when you look at the SMG, you'll notice it by itself is combat oriented due to its combat strength. The stealth element is the extra that stimulates actively seeking out combat because it allows for better combat/ambush positioning.


Stealth gameplay however, is to me defined as remaining undetected and only engaging your carefully selected target of choice. It's about precision strikes, pre-planning and careful movement considerations.

[Kerrec]

Sounds like a playstyle preference to me.

If you want to be sneaky and stay sneaky, that's your personal choice.

If someone else wants to use cloak to get in killing range of the weapon, that's their personal choice.

I really don't agree with one type of player forcing their playstyle on others.

P.S. The cloak is not THAT good. It's loud, it's easy enough to see in the ranges that the SMG's are to be used in. Usually seeing someone cloaked gives me the advantage, because they have to uncloak to start shooting.

The rest of the time, if they sneak up on me, I'd be dead even if they didn't bother to cloak. So I don't really think it's grossly overpowered. Now that the novelty has worn off, I'm seeing less and less SMG infiltrators and I'm seeing the SMG on other classes. But my K/D is still about the same game session to game session, so the introduction of the SMG's hasn't had any impact on my survivability.

This whole thread is just premature over-reaction, IMO.

[Baneblade]

I would tend to agree with everyone who surmised that the SMG is an excellent weapon for hacker infiltrators.

For those who think it is good as an LA or an HA... dream on.

My MSW-R still kicks more ass than the SMG ever could and my LA can deal damage at longer range with a Jaguar using fewer rounds per kill.

I thought this topic was about the AF-4 Cyclone...

Of course a TR isn't going to be impressed with an SMG with the weapons they have.

[TGxCraig]

I thought this topic was about the AF-4 Cyclone...

Of course a TR isn't going to be impressed with an SMG with the weapons they have.

I was about to say that exact same thing to him. The TR already have fantastic weapons that are crazy accurate and great at all ranges while having low recoil and mag sizes over 30. For the NC, we only have the AF-4 for that. Closest thing after that is the GD-7F, but it is still limited to 30 rounds.

Also, it was fun playing with you Baneblade yesterday. You're a beast with those tanks vs air. Defending that base on Esamir when we were surrounded on all sides was an epic battle of a few fighting many and succeeding.

[Baneblade]

Thanks, I'm just sorry I had to get off so quick. Ya'll run a good squad. We should work together some time.

[TGxCraig]

Thanks, I'm just sorry I had to get off so quick. Ya'll run a good squad. We should work together some time.

Sounds good to me. Add me in game, TGxCraig1287.

[TheSaltySeagull]

I cant speak for the NC SMG but the TR and VS versions are only really good for infiltrator(which I personally am glad they have a decent close range weapon now and dont find it OP by any means given how limited cloaking is in both duration and quality). As others have said shotguns and carbines will often give you better performance in close/medium range than a SMG. Tho I will say the SMG is still a viable option if you elect to go that route, just not as good as a shotgun or carb tho.

But like I said I have not used the NC one so I do not know how well it stacks up against their shotguns or carbs so it might be the better choice for them. But I will say I have not had any issues going up against NC armed with the SMG with my barrage shotgun tho.

[TGxCraig]

I cant speak for the NC SMG but the TR and VS versions are only really good for infiltrator(which I personally am glad they have a decent close range weapon now and dont find it OP by any means given how limited cloaking is in both duration and quality). As others have said shotguns and carbines will often give you better performance in close/medium range than a SMG. Tho I will say the SMG is still a viable option if you elect to go that route, just not as good as a shotgun or carb tho.

But like I said I have not used the NC one so I do not know how well it stacks up against their shotguns or carbs so it might be the better choice for them. But I will say I have not had any issues going up against NC armed with the SMG with my barrage shotgun tho.
Yea, I need to give shotguns a try, but I can't use slug rounds in a trial. If they ever do another 3x SC event, then I'll buy some shotguns.

[ringring]

Infil with SMG is so OP it's stupid.