PDA

View Full Version : AA|Air|Tanks|Liberators. Thoughts on "why is this/that OP?" coimng from a grunt.


NewSith
2013-02-09, 04:30 PM
AA:

(Just) Flak concept is OP
A direct fire Anti-Air measure is OP in its concept, because the only real counter to it is running away. If you make it so Air can attack flak head on, than the thing will be UP in 1v1 situations, because of flak bearer's limited movement. If you make flak too strong, numbers will make the weapon dominant over any sky. In other words - the devs created a problem for themselves, making flak weaponry the primary Anti-Air measure.
(Unjust) Lock-on Weaponry allows firing and forgetting.
While it is obviously understandable that nobody likes dying to such kind of weaponry, claiming it to be OP is a mistake. Due to the nature of the lock-on missiles, they are "stacking" on your tail. This means that even 100000000 missiles fired at you simultaneously will not hit you if you just pop your flares. Balancing lock-on timer vs flare timer is way easier, than balancing Flak vs Air.
(Unjust) AA is overabundant
The people (*cough*), claim that AA became OP, because of the choices the game offers. But the only truth is - with new tower and outpost spawnroom designs, camping these is no longer an option. This makes it so there's a potential "area denial range" near every outpost and tower.


Air:

(Just) Air-to-Ground Weaponry works too well against everything.
The reason for that is the game's leaning towards realism. And I concur with that approach, since later PS1 Reavers' inability to kill infantry felt rather unnatural, even for a guy that never played ANY aircraft in that game. So there should be other solutions implemented, but they MUST be implemented.
(Just) Aircraft can be pulled from nearly anywhere, at any time.
Battlefield has the limit on the amount of vehicles per map. PlanetSide cannot afford it obviously, but there should be at least some way to increase the skill ceiling, by awarding being a survivor.
(Just) Aircraft has no areas it cannot reach.
Biolab by far is the only place where aircraft cannot affect the flow completely. Yet again satellite outposts are easily camped by Air, so there's no way you can call Biolabs aircraft-free.
(Unjust) Aircraft travel on XYZ axis, and thus it's easy for them to run away.
In short: "Afterburfning away" is just as valid as finding cover from tanks as infantry.


Tanks:

(Just) Amounts of tanks
This pretty much goes into the same shelf as Air spam. There is no real award for survivng, or to be prescise there is no real punishment for dying often.
(Just) No hard counters for tanks, except equals/dominants
This is really an issue I had a very long and unproductive argument about once, but in short - there is no "brainless" tactic against tanks. The issue would've been redundant if tanks were limited, but since the game allows for 666 Troopers vs 666 Tanks situations, the "brainless" solution should exist. Current levels of Anti-tank weaponry are too weak to be that solution. Besides, buffing missile launchers will only result in tanks being redundant. Another reason, to raise the skill bar for tanks.
(Just) Only few big scale "tankless" areas.
Well, unlike with Aircraft, we have The Crown and Ti Alloys, that are designed to be areas with high ground vehicle denial potential. But in my opinion, there should be an entire continent dedicated to tankless combat. Like an Oshur Battle-island consisting entirely of one humongous city, a-la BF2142's Fall of Berlin.
(Unjust) Tanks are very powerful
I'll repeat myself, Tank power is absolutely balanced. But since it's the ease of access that doesn't go well with it, some way to balance that shoud be invented. It also requires mentioning, that tanks were just as strong in PlanetSide 1. Except they had an unarmed driver. What a ridiculous concept, isn't it?


Liberators:

(Just) Libs are both Tanks and Aircraft
Take everything said about Air and Tanks and there you have the most justified claim.
(Just) Dalton and Zephyr are OP because...
With Liberator being able to fly, making it a flying tank instead of a bomber is a bad idea. Even despite its using the driver+gunner scheme. Liberator has no counters to it from the ground, but the only reason for that is it can pretty much shoot stuff from afar, by just putting its nose up and letting your gunner act like a tank turret gunner shooting forward instead of down.
(Unjust) Average Liberator lifespan is huge
This whole belief is caused by the above two points altogether.

Rockit
2013-02-09, 04:35 PM
It's just simple sith. Way too much focus on air. What does polmyra mean? Half the world? Eh?

Trying to learn Russian.

NewSith
2013-02-09, 04:38 PM
It's just simple sith. Way too much focus on air.
I say thee nay, if you take a 64-player battlefield map and let every player fly a helicopter, guess what happens... Devs' focus has nothing to do with it.

What does polmyra mean? Half the world? Eh?

Trying to learn Russian.

You are correct.

Rockit
2013-02-09, 04:43 PM
Well we cannot to be so world's apart.

Rockit
2013-02-09, 04:45 PM
We are concerned about Pripyat.

NewSith
2013-02-09, 04:51 PM
Well we cannot to be so world's apart.

Apart from it being a grammar trainwreck, what is this?

Rockit
2013-02-09, 04:54 PM
Well I know sorry. Teach me,

NewSith
2013-02-09, 04:56 PM
Well I know sorry. Teach me,

I'd recommend talking to a guy called Veca. He's a good teacher.

EDIT: Apart from when he's stoned.

Rockit
2013-02-09, 04:58 PM
What does this mean? Точка взлёта

NewSith
2013-02-09, 05:00 PM
What does this mean? Точка взлёта

It means "takeoff point" (not the historic thingamajiig). A point on an airstrip or wherever where a plane gets off the ground. Also stop derailing it.

Rockit
2013-02-09, 05:05 PM
It means "takeoff point". A point on an airstrip or wherever where a plane gets off the ground. Also stop derailing it.

Yes I know that sith. I laugh,

Rockit
2013-02-09, 05:07 PM
I love you guys. I wish I could welcome you to USA.

Sturmhardt
2013-02-09, 05:35 PM
Yeah... they should have just done it like BF3 did: Air does it's thing and flies around shooting air, while ground units kill stuff on the ground. In BF3 I didn't really care for air that much except the occasional skilled apache helicopter.

The mistake they made was to make air to ground too effective. This lead to OP air, then AA got buffed like crazy and now air has no role anymore. They can't come out of this dilemma now if they keep the A2G damage that high.

A possible solution:
1. Nerf A2G to the point of no existence, only liberators make damage to ground units. Rocketpods are removed, only the primary weapons of ESFs can damage ground units.
2. Nerf G2A, and get rid of most AA on vehicles.

--> Air can fly around and shoot other air, defending liberators that can damage ground units. G2A will not have a real reason to exist everywhere and can concentrate on ground units and the occasional liberator.

But this will never happen.... the devs are not really experimental...

Rothnang
2013-02-09, 08:19 PM
If you just use your Liberator to bully easy targets it's pretty damn powerful, that's true.

Too bad if you take your Liberator into any kind of serious battle it goes down in flames in seconds.


That does come down to the AA problem though, in any situation where there isn't a lot of AA it absolutely wrecks people, but if there is any substantial AA presence in the area it just can't do much.

NewSith
2013-02-10, 06:06 AM
The mistake they made was to make air to ground too effective. This lead to OP air, then AA got buffed like crazy and now air has no role anymore. They can't come out of this dilemma now if they keep the A2G damage that high.

A possible solution:
2. Nerf G2A, and get rid of most AA on vehicles.

You're just quoting the OP, or to be precise the part of claims that I called incorrect.

Pella
2013-02-10, 06:41 AM
Air is in a good place at the moment. I don't see what all this fuss is about where people are claiming Air is useless now...

With the new Render Threat Distance changes.

A ESF with composite armour. Can pretty much Tank a dual Burster MAX in a 1v1 Situation and still kill him.

PredatorFour
2013-02-10, 07:51 AM
Yeh i don't get why people are complaining either. You can cert into Esf's and make them good against AA, that's the whole point of the cert system.

Shamrock
2013-02-10, 08:29 AM
I think its fine as it is at the moment, people in my experience don't pull AA until they absolutely have to, every form of AA can be taken out by rocket spamming and then using the terrain to dive into cover and rinse and repeat until turret/max/HA is dead.

The only time aircav will have an issue is if a whole squad kits out AA and concentrates fire.

Ghoest9
2013-02-10, 09:41 AM
I like the game as is.

But if you were to essentially remove the ability of ESF to kill infantry and limit the ability to kill armor then i would be fine with making ESF MUCH MUCH harder to kill from the ground.