Infantry Render Distance Feedback

[Hamma]

Figured another method of feedback never hurts!

https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/301171434917621761

Edit: And if you missed it from earlier:

https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/301079766239440897

[Higby]

Thanks Hamma!

[DirtyBird]

I'm going to check it out now I am home from work but at least they have started to do something about it. :thumbsup:

Yet another step forward.

[capiqu]

Ok let me switch to my test server account/character. :)

Just kidding . just happy to see that they are testing things out first with minimal damage before they release it to all servers.

[DirtyBird]

Matt, does this change address the rendering issue with the MAX thats unable to render the Infantry the same time the Infantry can render the MAX in heavy battles?

[Sledgecrushr]

It works. I was just on the tawich southern wall and I could see approximately 300 meters south about a platoon of infantry storming the southeast gate. To think about it I was rendering infantry as small as just a pixel on my monitor. Check Black Friday November (https://www.weeklyads2.com/black-friday/) and Stater Bros Ad (https://www.weeklyads2.com/stater-bros/). We are talking about 500 meters or so. It was absolutely amazing to see.

Edit* I have a shitty computer and I didnt experience any of the glitches that I had before.

[maradine]

You mean . . . sniping at sniping distances? Heavens!

[QuantumMechanic]

So I tried The Crown, Allatum Bio Lab and an outpost that was top on the "need reinforcements" list.

The increase in render distance is noticeable for sure, but none of the battles were big enough that I'd expect the culling system to kick in.

So looks good sofar - needs more testing time though I'd say.

[Dkamanus]

Tested on Connery against the NC on Quartz Ridge. Seems to work. Was sniping people at almost 200m rendering infantry easily. During some heavy fighting. If they really nailed this, the game will become MUCH better.

[Canaris]

going to test it out this evening if it's up and pass the good word around

[Mastachief]

You mean . . . sniping at sniping distances? Heavens!

http://lag3.com/art/supert.jpeg

[Sir B Smythe]

Please say it worked guys...... pretty please.

[QFAN]

Not sure if it is related, but it is my first time ever in this game to see ground units from air at this distance:


http://www.sfu.ca/~qfan/ps2/20130212/snapshot20130212003028.jpg
http://www.sfu.ca/~qfan/ps2/20130212/snapshot20130212003036.jpg
http://www.sfu.ca/~qfan/ps2/20130212/snapshot20130212003042.jpg
http://www.sfu.ca/~qfan/ps2/20130212/snapshot20130212003047.jpg
http://www.sfu.ca/~qfan/ps2/20130212/snapshot20130212003054.jpg
http://www.sfu.ca/~qfan/ps2/20130212/snapshot20130212003101.jpg

[Thunderhawk]

I saw the tweet last night for Connery but didn't realize Miller was getting it too. When was this patch applied ? Server side only ?

I was playing last night and didnt really notice the difference but that was at around 9-10PM GMT, thats probably 2PM PST.

Is it still running now ?

[Mastachief]

I saw the tweet last night for Connery but didn't realize Miller was getting it too. When was this patch applied ? Server side only ?

I was playing last night and didnt really notice the difference but that was at around 9-10PM GMT, thats probably 2PM PST.

Is it still running now ?

So far as i know it's only on connery right now.

[Thunderhawk]

From his latest tweet it sounds like its been running on Miller also.....

Are we on Miller the Placebo ? (don't actually do it and see if people start reporting improved render ?) :)

[Merzun]

Was only on for some minutes and can't say much about performance as i don't know how much players where around.

The render distance I would guess was between 250 to maybe 400 meters. There where however only a few players visible at that distance and I don't know if there where more present or if i only could see some selected ones. The maximum number visible was about 10. I was at Ti Alloys and could see TR infantry on the other side of the bridge at the crown. Also VS was present from Crossroads. I could see them from the small rock formation near the bridge.

http://i.imgur.com/xKhqufi.jpg

What I noticed however, on this hill most players seemed to float about 1 meter in the air (only slightly visible in the picture, didn't take one when i had more players visible and a better angle). This issue was not happening with other terrain like buildings or the bridge.

[Mastachief]

From his latest tweet it sounds like its been running on Miller also.....

Are we on Miller the Placebo ? (don't actually do it and see if people start reporting improved render ?) :)

:D if that's the case then i might have to forgo the gym this afternoon in favour of "testing".

As for placebo? isn't miller the most active server so perhaps the fixes are less noticeable if there are more people about.

[PredatorFour]

It was on Miler too. For a while on the ground i thought it had worked, i was in a mag in a massive ground battle with the nc and i could see all the troops it was great. But reavers would disappear really quickly from view.

I got in the air and the render issues were back again. This time friendlies were disappearing. Normally the friendlies didn't disappear and the enemies did.

Keep at it Matty you`ll get it eventually, i think it's a small step in the right direction.

[Merzun]

I saw the tweet last night for Connery but didn't realize Miller was getting it too. When was this patch applied ? Server side only ?

I was playing last night and didnt really notice the difference but that was at around 9-10PM GMT, thats probably 2PM PST.

Is it still running now ?

No patch. Higby just popped in and it was enabled. Seems to be server side. Don't know if it is still on. Cycles said they would leave it running for the day and evaluate if there are problems. That was at between 22 to 0 CET, so it might be still up as the devs should be asleep now.

[KaskaMatej]

What I noticed however, on this hill most players seemed to float about 1 meter in the air.

It's most likely due to terrain smoothing, sort of speak. The further you go, the less detail terrain has, less geometry, polygons. You can see that on Amerish's mountains the most.

[RSphil]

tried some sniping on miller. can see people at a greater distance which is great. still not sure I like the culling bit though. targets vanashing just as I take the shot :( I have everthing on max and was running great. nice job so far.

[Thunderhawk]

Well, I was defending Tarwich last night around 8:30PM GMT and the TR had the West Spawn base (down the hill from Broken Arch Road) and they had liek 30-40 people on the roof of the CC building with AA Bursters etc... and were rendering from the Tarwich Tower.

Don't know if that's an improvement or not from before, but if standing in the Tower you can see 40 people on roof of that building, that's quite a distance.

[ShadetheDruid]

It's funny, last night I was at Magrider Hill (or is it Prowler Hill now?) and I could actually see infantry running around on the road up to the Crown.

This was on Mallory though, so no changes involved. I think everyone had just abandoned the Crown to go fight at Allatum for some reason, it was just odd being able to see people at that distance in that area for once. :p

[KaskaMatej]

Just got from Miller and I must say, I really truly FUCKING love the change!

I've seen infantry on the hill between Crossroads and The Crown and I even killed them from the South Crown bridge. Usually they didn't even render if they were under the said bridge.

http://i.imgur.com/0opRrRz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WbONBA0.png

No real FPS drops, any graphical problems, or the likes. Smooth as baby's butt.

[Thunderhawk]

Just got from Miller and I must say, I really truly FUCKING love the change!

I've seen infantry on the hill between Crossroads and The Crown and I even killed them from the South Crown bridge. Usually they didn't even render if they were under the said bridge.

http://i.imgur.com/0opRrRz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WbONBA0.png

No real FPS drops, any graphical problems, or the likes. Smooth as baby's butt.

This is truly good news, I will be sure to test this out in next 3 hours when I finally get home from work.

[MarauderShields]

I recorded a lot of footage looking at some fighting between Indar Excavation and Dahaka last night on Connery. Render distance was around the 300m mark. I slapped it all together hastily last night and uploaded it this morning, for your viewing pleasure.

This Beautiful War - PS2 render distance changes

[Mastachief]

Looking great for long range now what about upclose, some cluster fuck biolabs/crown fight have the enemies rendering in at less than 3m which often leads you to getting a good rogering with out having a say about it. Of course this also will lead to sniper prowlers (nerf the splash) from allatum to ti alloys.

[Sonny]

Great video Marauder! I loved the juxtaposition between the raging battles and laid-back piano music :).

That looks sooooooooooooooo much better than it did before... The game is really coming together. I'm blown away by the speed in which SOE can solve these seemingly-fundamental problems with the game engine (thinking of tunnels too).

[DovahTerran]

I really like the way they applied the settings for Connery. I say we just become the official Guinea Pig server xD They worked really well. And plus the performance patches are doing wonders. My comp is a minimum spec dual core Intel with a pretty old GPU. I'm still able to run battles with multiple platoons at around 5-15 FPS at the very lowest, even at the Crown and Crossroads where fighting is always hardest, and see all the hostiles at acceptable distances. My comp is proof that SOE is working a miracle with optimization. Thanks Higby!

[Merzun]

Some impressions from Ti Alloys some moments ago. Render distance seems to be still on. FPS didn't seem to get a huge drop, could maintain around 30+.

When I dropped in alot of them where already spotted. Don't know why all are tagged. Seemed odd that even the ones behind cover where visible. Might be some of us spotted them.

http://i.imgur.com/YK1tqb6.jpg

Then again some time later non where spotted.

http://i.imgur.com/hO106aU.jpg

One drawback seems to be more "ghosts" being around.

http://i.imgur.com/cEt1wwD.jpg

After we took Ti Alloys you now have to be carefull not to be sniped from the Crown.

http://i.imgur.com/SCifk9T.jpg

TR started a counter offensive. Again not sure why everyone was tagged.

http://i.imgur.com/u5BeB83.jpg

In conclusion it's like a different game now. They should implement it on the other servers and leave it running for some time but also monitor the outcome. It might be neccessary to rebalance some weapons. Vehicles are again very dangerous. Also being hit by tank, liberator shells and missiles from vehicles far away is sometimes difficult to distinguish from small arms fire as the explosion is not rendered and the hit sound appears to be the same. This should be fixed either by making the explosion visible (might decrease fps) changing the sound or maybe color the hit marker in a different way.

[Kalbuth]

Some impressions from Ti Alloys some moments ago. Render distance seems to be still on. FPS didn't seem to get a huge drop, could maintain around 30+.

When I dropped in alot of them where already spotted. Don't know why all are tagged. Seemed odd that even the ones behind cover where visible. Might be some of us spotted them.

http://i.imgur.com/YK1tqb6.jpg

Then again some time later non where spotted.

http://i.imgur.com/hO106aU.jpg

One drawback seems to be more "ghosts" being around.

http://i.imgur.com/cEt1wwD.jpg

After we took Ti Alloys you now have to be carefull not to be sniped from the Crown.

http://i.imgur.com/SCifk9T.jpg

TR started a counter offensive. Again not sure why everyone was tagged.

http://i.imgur.com/u5BeB83.jpg

In conclusion it's like a different game now. They should implement it on the other servers and leave it running for some time but also monitor the outcome. It might be neccessary to rebalance some weapons. Vehicles are again very dangerous. Also being hit by tank, liberator shells and missiles from vehicles far away is sometimes difficult to distinguish from small arms fire as the explosion is not rendered and the hit sound appears to be the same. This should be fixed either by making the explosion visible (might decrease fps) changing the sound or maybe color the hit marker in a different way.

It's funny you're describing exactly what happened in beta....

errr...


Rmmrmr....

:(


** still wondering why they introduced so much changes just before launch **

[wasdie]

It's funny you're describing exactly what happened in beta....

errr...


Rmmrmr....

:(


** still wondering why they introduced so much changes just before launch **

Stability. Lots of crashes even in the late beta. If I got anything from that whole tech interview that was posted yesterday, it is that their optimizations both server side and client side are still extremely unstable. They can optimize stuff to be very fast but it results in a lot of crashing.

They must finally be getting to a point with the engine where they can up the render distance without seeing a large drop in stability.

[Quovatis]

Love it! I had no issues with it and makes the game feel like a real game again.

[maradine]

Can't wait until they roll it out to us third-world servers ;)

[Emperor Newt]

What I noticed on Miller is that when sniping I can see people, can spot them but I am unable to hit them. But only happens over very long distances you would not have been able to snipe people before.

Bit overall a great experience. Also it did not seem to impact my FPS on a low end system all too much.

[MrBloodworth]

What I noticed on Miller is that when sniping I can see people, can spot them but I am unable to hit them. But only happens over very long distances you would not have been able to snipe people before.

Bit overall a great experience. Also did not seem to impact my FPS on a low end system all too much.

Bullet drop?

[Sledgecrushr]

Probably bullet drop. I noticed something close to eight feet of bullet drop on my longest shots.

[NotTheMomma]

Wow, that video. Yes ... this looks very promising.

[Emperor Newt]

Bullet drop?
nope. tried to aim higher, didn't work either. Also VS weapons ;)
Maybe it was also a rendering issue because often those people were standing still for longer then I would think would be "normal". Maybe their position was not updating or something like that.

[Thunderhawk]

Been playing on Miller for past 3 hours now, the game feels like a world away from what it was before.....

You can now actually see what's shooting at you from a distance, If they see your vehicle, you can see them.

Snipers are having a field day

KNowing where the fight is happening for a Galaxy drop is perfect, so you know enemies arent just rendering as you land in between them.

Mr. Higby, I beg you, Keep this in...... and apply it to Esamir and Amerish.

No FPS drop, Performance is fine no issues.... the game just feels awesome again, seeing massive battles in the distance just looks so god damn epic !!!

[maradine]

nope. tried to aim higher, didn't work either. Also VS weapons ;)
Maybe it was also a rendering issue because often those people were standing still for longer then I would think would be "normal". Maybe their position was not updating or something like that.

VS single-shots have bullet drop.

[KaskaMatej]

nope. tried to aim higher, didn't work either. Also VS weapons ;)

I played today on Miller and had no problems killing people I saw (apart from the usual bullet drop, bullet travel, flinching, screen shake and scope sway).

My hits registered, and if a hit didn't register, it was because I missed.

Besides, all bolt-action sniper rifles have bullet drop. If you weren't using a sniper rifle, you should know, all other guns have a base inaccuracy, meaning even if you aim directly at a guy you can miss. That's to prevent extreme long shots with a non-sniper rifle, like semi-auto scout rifle (Nyx), battle rifle (Eidelon) or long range assault rifle (CME).

[Thunderhawk]

No problems with Hit detection on Miller here, the game, I cannot describe enough how much better it is now with huge fights flowing and not having the feeling of being shot by ghosts.....

KEEP THIS IN

[MrBloodworth]

How huge is huge though?

Truly, the test is a Bio-lab leaf battle or a Tech plant backdoor.

[Nausicaa]

In short for me its brilliant, no real loss in FPS at least 250m rendering on infantry, i actually feel like a proper sniper for the first time in this game in big fights, do whatever you need to do to get that on the other world and other servers.

Good job to the folks that got this working have pie on me :)

[Fenrys]

In short for me its brilliant, no real loss in FPS at least 250m rendering on infantry, i actually feel like a proper sniper for the first time in this game in big fights, do whatever you need to do to get that on the other world and other servers.

Good job to the folks that got this working have pie on me :)


Only if you shower first. :rofl:

[Bloodlet]

Good, great, grand. Now lets push this to the other servers devs.

[Hamma]

I recorded a lot of footage looking at some fighting between Indar Excavation and Dahaka last night on Connery. Render distance was around the 300m mark. I slapped it all together hastily last night and uploaded it this morning, for your viewing pleasure.

This Beautiful War - PS2 render distance changes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKRW08F6Fp4)

Great screenshot and video evidence from everyone! Props on the usage of Deadmau5 I love that damn song. Or rather Evan Duffy's piano rendition of it. :)

Can't wait to see this on Waterson!

[Orius]

I love it, roll it out for everyone on all three continents please.

[Electrofreak]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/33538147.jpg

[Galron]

Thanks Hamma!


This shit is boss. I was at the Crown tonight, had so many targets to snipe I didn't even know what to do. I laid down some 400+m headshots on people that don't know not to stand still :sniper: :domotwak:

[Mastachief]

How huge is huge though?

Truly, the test is a Bio-lab leaf battle or a Tech plant backdoor.

HUGE

Its not perfect but its a massive improvement.

As for not doing damage these comment were made by numerous people on our ts. 1 thing i will point out is that if some one is at extreme range in a turret they render as infantry without the turret shooting them does nothing because they are in the turret its only that the turret doesnt render.

Example. Sniping from ti alloys to the crown

[DirtyBird]

Anyone got feedback footage from those huge battles in close quarters?
I never had a real issue with the rendering at the distances I've seen in the video/Screenshots above when the fighting wasnt all that heavy.

Or is the pop in/pop out rendering you see in CQC considered a different problem?

[yozzer]

Brilliant, bring it on all servers as soon as you can Devs.

[Thunderhawk]

Anyone got feedback footage from those huge battles in close quarters?
I never had a real issue with the rendering at the distances I've seen in the video/Screenshots above when the fighting wasnt all that heavy.

Or is the pop in/pop out rendering you see in CQC considered a different problem?

I havent got video evidence, but numerous Rashnu fights last night and Zurvan being zerged by NC and I could see everyone (at least what I thought was everyone)

There was no popping in and out of render at CQC that I noticed at all. Tower fights were awesome as well because of all the new barriers put up it was like a proper run in, clear room, move onto next room, type fight.

Techplant fights was involved in a few of those (Tarwich) and I distinctly remember in the past if you have a sizeable force inside the techplant you couldnt see enemuies on the other side of the walkway inside main building.

Last night I could see all troops.

The biggest difference I have noticed is that previously, if Infantry didnt render, then lobbing decimators / grenades / shells at them didnt' do any damage (as they werent rendering)

Last night, you could really have some long distance standoffs Tanks sitting at Crossroads watchtower shelling The Crown and getting kills, tank vs tank vs infantry with locks ons fighting each other all over the plains between Vanu Archives, Xenotech Labs, Snake Ravine and Cross roads.

Was truly epic, i wish they leave it in and add it to Amerish and Esamir also.

The game felt 100 times more epic and awesome, a few comments in yell were about how this felt like Planetside again......

[yell] XXXXXX: omfg this fight is epic....
[yell] XXXXXX: This is the best tank vs Tank fight I've seen since I started playing PS2

I don't want to even touch on this subject in case it gets us nerfed again, but even flying an ESF was so much more rewarding because you could actually see clumps of enemy from a distance and avoid being Annihilated to death with LOCK ons by avoiding the area completely.... rather than just flying along and have 50 HAs render underneath you suddenly and blow you out of the sky.....


That said it all.

[DirtyBird]

Thanks for the feedback Thunderhawk.
This is the type of rendering issue I am hoping has been fixed.
Planetside 2 - Rendering issues - YouTube

[Bloodlet]

As I understand it the render fix was turned back off after today's hotfix. Can anyone confirm?

[Thunderhawk]

I could still see Infantry in large battles from huge distances, Maybe just me but I think its still running on Indar on Miller.

[Baneblade]

How is proper camo affecting this? I mean if an enemy is wearing good camo for the terrain is he harder to identify at those ranges?

[Tatwi]

When standing on the spawn room building of quartz ridge and looking down the base to the north exit, I found that people I could see would disappear when I scoped in on them with the 10x on the TR bolt action. Zoom out, they were back.

Also noticed significantly more people appearing out of no where within 50m, yet I can see folks 400m away behind them, friendlies and enemies alike.

[Daimond]

Love the vid, congrats, set you subscribe. Felt like was watching a Point of view Timelaps documentry almost.

On the other note, wish I played, yesterday, Pissed I missed out the rendering distance, for my sniping :(


This Beautiful War - PS2 render distance changes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKRW08F6Fp4)

[DirtyBird]

Still testing
https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/301817337999396864

Be great if someone could check out the CQC results like the video I posted above.

[Hamma]

:thumbsup:

[ShadetheDruid]

Of course, the three servers picked happen to be none of the three i'm on, typical! :cry: Ah well, hopefully they're getting some good results from this and they'll roll it out to everyone soon. :D

[Emperor Newt]

Besides, all bolt-action sniper rifles have bullet drop.
I know. Thanks.
That's why the ;) smiley was behind it.

[DirtyBird]

After watching FNO Ep20 its clear that the render changes are for distance and not for CQC.
So much was popping in and out during the attack at the Crown.

Was also interesting to see Jimmywhis running around on the dev cam and he couldnt render all of the Consortium lined up and waiting at the warp gate.
They popped in and out as he moved along the line up.

On the other hand the distance rendering looks as good as what people have been saying here.

[typhaon]

Got a chance to play for some extended time in a variety of very large to smaller encounters.

* noticed significant inconsistency... would see enemies at a distance - only to enter an 'empty' room on the way and have a squad pop up out of thin air in my face.

* In particular, I was noticing the weird popups associated with MAX charge... several times as I was darting from cover to cover, trying to approach a distant group of enemies, I'd charge into a seemingly empty area... only to have it suddenly be teeming with enemies. In some cases, I think they were just as surprised to see me as I was them.

* noticed the above effects with friendlies, also.

* gameplay result i've noticed.... sniperside 2. people might adapt... but tonight I noticed more than a few battles that just turned into these long-range 'farm' fests. I say 'farm' because I don't think anyone was really racking up the certs, but people just seemed content to sit back and lob tank shells and take pot shots from 400m. twice my friends and i left battles because they deteriorated into these dull stalemates -- with little activity on either side.

[Koadster]

Have they removed the improvement? Was at quartz ridge I had guys disappearing when there was at best 50-70 people around.

[Hamma]

Not sure, last we heard it was still in place.

[Figment]

Yesterday we had a lot of issues with render distance on Miller when fighting up from Zurvan (as NC) near The Crown. The TR infantry in the hills didn't render, nor did their missiles, but they damn well hit hard and my Vanguard got continuous lock ons. Hit direction indicators worked, but only sporadically actual infantry would show up (typically under 50-80m). As infantry, seemed to have far less issues while closer to The Crown in much denser pop. :/

Not sure what caused it, but we all had the same issues.

[Gimpylung]

During a 3 way at Crossroads on Miller last night, VS held the tower, TR rolling AMS's to point C from Xeno, NC coming in from Crown and Ti, loads of short range render issues with friendlies and enemies alike.

Granted there was a hell of a lot of infantry from all empires there at the time, so quite the stress test.

[Emperor Newt]

* gameplay result i've noticed.... sniperside 2. people might adapt... but tonight I noticed more than a few battles that just turned into these long-range 'farm' fests. I say 'farm' because I don't think anyone was really racking up the certs, but people just seemed content to sit back and lob tank shells and take pot shots from 400m. twice my friends and i left battles because they deteriorated into these dull stalemates -- with little activity on either side.
Kinda my experience too. A lot of battles by randoms are becoming more and more "stalemates" because the attacking team is way to afraid to go anywhere near the defenders.
It seems to have taken some of the "frantic fun" out of many battles. Maybe it's just that people need to adapt but currently it looks like attacks became campsites. Except the smoke. Because smoke in PS2 doesn't cover anything (long enough).

[Calisai]

How is proper camo affecting this? I mean if an enemy is wearing good camo for the terrain is he harder to identify at those ranges?

If he isn't moving, they can blend in. I've actually found that I've lost vanguards/prowlers with the correct color camo on indar. (on high graphics settings anyway)

However, if they are moving around, no amount of camo will help that... and infantry has a lot of non-camo'd black, grey, etc on them that makes it a little easier. Light levels also have a huge role in this...

Most of the time when i'm long-range sniping (very long range on Mattherson/Indar) i'm noticing the movement more than the color/profile of players. That or a shadow due to being backlit, etc.

[Calisai]

Kinda my experience too. A lot of battles by randoms are becoming more and more "stalemates" because the attacking team is way to afraid to go anywhere near the defenders.
It seems to have taken some of the "frantic fun" out of many battles. Maybe it's just that people need to adapt but currently it looks like attacks became campsites. Except the smoke. Because smoke in PS2 doesn't cover anything (long enough).

I've definitely seen this more with the Crown/Xroads/TI alloys area. Other places it doesn't seem to matter as much, but at the Big 3, a lot of long-range farming going on.

[camycamera]

Apply to all server plex, especially briggs :3