Infiltrator Overhaul

[EVILPIG]

This is my list of changes to shape and specialize the Infiltrator.

1. Remove Sniper Rifles and SMGs. Develop more handguns if needed.

2. Change Generators so that only infiltrators can interact with them. This should be done on a console, not the gen it's self. Also, everything shouldn't be tied to Gens. Put in hackable switches for certain shields within bases. Add more "hacking" for them.

3. Open up an array of traps. Give them access to anti-personel mines, AT mines, and C4. They should also get access to specialty grenades as well.

4. Specialized equipment. The game already has jumpjets for LA, no reason to not give Infiltrators the ability to use something like a Grapple Gun. It would have 2 charges and would leave the line in place until destroyed or another is fired.

5. Binoculars. Binocs would be useful for observing areas and can be upgraded to Nightvision. Would be very useful for approaching a target.


The Infiltrator should be about infiltrating an area or base and then causing havok. Either by hacking things, destroying things or making it unsafe for the enemy.

Infiltrators - Low firepower, high utility.

[HiroshiChugi]

These all sound AMAZING and would add a great benefit/support role for the Infiltrator, as well as more of an "infiltrating" role.

[ShadetheDruid]

No need to limit people to a single niche when you can add enough options to cover everyone's playstyle, nothing is lost by allowing people to choose what they want to do within a class (as long as it doesn't break the game, of course). Chosen specialisation > forced specialisation.

Just give them the option to cert into the stalker cloak and have that determine what they can and can't carry.

[Sledgecrushr]

I would like to keep the rifles and SMGs. By allowing a variety of pistols for the infiltrator it would allow for a greater variety of gameplay. Love your idea on explosive loadouts. More bombs for infiltrators, more traps, anything to enhance their sneaky gameplay.

[EVILPIG]

I would like to keep the rifles and SMGs. By allowing a variety of pistols for the infiltrator it would allow for a greater variety of gameplay. Love your idea on explosive loadouts. More bombs for infiltrators, more traps, anything to enhance their sneaky gameplay.

Honestly, I would move the Sniper rifles to LA.

[Kerrec]

Nah, don't just remove Sniper rifles and SMG's. Besides... that'll never happen. Have to work within the game mechanics.

Instead, add tools that REPLACE Sniper Rifles and SMG's. Then, as you lay out, make taking a base require hacking.

What I would do:

A tool that goes into the infiltrator weapon slot in introduced. This allows Infiltrators to hack "things".

I would still allow Engineers to overload generators. However, I would make it require alot more time to do so. Beside generators, should be terminals (I can't help but thinking of R2D2...) where an Infiltrator can hack the generator FASTER than an Engineer can overload it.

However, the main objective should ONLY be hackable by an Infiltrator. Very slow if carrying weapons instead of the hacking tool, and reasonably quick if carrying the hacking tool.

I would also allow Infiltrators to hack things like Spawn Beacons (for the infiltrators squad), jump pads, turrets, Sunderers (just to disable the AMS capability), tanks (lock the owner out of it, until a friendly infiltrator hacks it back), etc...

[wasdie]

Bombs, traps, and anything else that can easily kill somebody in 1 hit should be a no-no as it's the most frustrating mechanics out there.

In PS1 at least you weren't instantly killed by mines. They did their job without frustrating the living hell out of people.

I like some of these other ideas, like being able to shut down an AMS, hack jump pads, stuff like that. I would like more recon stuff. Imagine the ability to place down a recon camera so you could observe a remote location on the continent. That could be awesome.

Make the infiltrator more full of gadgets that help support, not stuff that can pad a K/D ratio. Recon, hacking, stuff like that is good support. Blowing single players up through traps isn't.

[EVILPIG]

Nah, don't just remove Sniper rifles and SMG's. Besides... that'll never happen. Have to work within the game mechanics.

Instead, add tools that REPLACE Sniper Rifles and SMG's. Then, as you lay out, make taking a base require hacking.

What I would do:

A tool that goes into the infiltrator weapon slot in introduced. This allows Infiltrators to hack "things".

I would still allow Engineers to overload generators. However, I would make it require alot more time to do so. Beside generators, should be terminals (I can't help but thinking of R2D2...) where an Infiltrator can hack the generator FASTER than an Engineer can overload it.

However, the main objective should ONLY be hackable by an Infiltrator. Very slow if carrying weapons instead of the hacking tool, and reasonably quick if carrying the hacking tool.

I would also allow Infiltrators to hack things like Spawn Beacons (for the infiltrators squad), jump pads, turrets, Sunderers (just to disable the AMS capability), tanks (lock the owner out of it, until a friendly infiltrator hacks it back), etc...

You're confusing. You said dont take away sniper rifles, then said replace them. That is taking them away.

Also, don't be too sure about things that would never happen. The Sniper may be it's own class someday.

[Kerrec]

You're confusing. You said dont take away sniper rifles, then said replace them. That is taking them away.

Also, don't be too sure about things that would never happen. The Sniper may be it's own class someday.

Sorry for being confusing.

I mean to introduce an alternative. You can choose to equip a weapon or a tool. People still get the choice.

[Neutral Calypso]

If you give sniper rifles to LA's, I hope you are prepared to deal with LA's who are sniping from the top of the highest tower.

[Baneblade]

I like the general direction of this thread, but have to agree that Infils don't need to be yet another killwhore facilitation class. Let them have what they already have minus any firearm that isn't a pistol. Plus the option to cert into a more appropriate cloak. They should have to uncloak to use any ability or item.

I like the gadget ideas, more hacking, remote cameras, the 'grappling hook', maybe even a way to mark targets for other forces.

[EVILPIG]

Sorry for being confusing.

I mean to introduce an alternative. You can choose to equip a weapon or a tool. People still get the choice.

Like the Grapple Gun. ;)

[Baneblade]

If you give sniper rifles to LA's, I hope you are prepared to deal with LA's who are sniping from the top of the highest tower.

Which are the easiest to locate and kill.

[EVILPIG]

If you give sniper rifles to LA's, I hope you are prepared to deal with LA's who are sniping from the top of the highest tower.

That is certainly a concern, but how much is it already happening? You can Instant Action, use a Beacon or fly your own Gal to get on top of things. You would not be able to cloak and would have limited ammo. It's certainly all open for discussion. Perhaps Sniper should be it's own class. ATM, I am focused on making Infiltrators more of what they should be.

[ShadetheDruid]

Thing is, sniper rifles fit the concept of infiltrators and the skill set they (currently) possess. Lightly armoured, not meant for front line combat, with fallible camouflage (albeit we're talking cloaking devices rather than ghillie suits), using stealth to get into position etc.

[NewSith]

This is my list of changes to shape and specialize the Infiltrator.

1. Remove Sniper Rifles and SMGs.

I disagree:
1) Because you don't offer a solution for Snipers.
2) Because SMGs for infils actually turned out way better than shotguns, except SMGs themselves are rather OP, but that's a common pool problem, not Infiltrator-only.

...Develop more handguns if needed.

I agree oldschool full-time cloaker limited only to pistols will make the game fresh.

2. Change Generators so that only infiltrators can interact with them. This should be done on a console, not the gen it's self. Also, everything shouldn't be tied to Gens. Put in hackable switches for certain shields within bases. Add more "hacking" for them.

I agree.

3. Open up an array of traps. Give them access to anti-personel mines, AT mines, and C4. They should also get access to specialty grenades as well.

I agree, except no AT mines. Considering what they are now, it'll be too OP.

4. Specialized equipment. The game already has jumpjets for LA, no reason to not give Infiltrators the ability to use something like a Grapple Gun. It would have 2 charges and would leave the line in place until destroyed or another is fired.

I agree, here's my tool ideass for cloakers:
Tools (1 tool Equippable):

IFF
Radar Disruptors
Spotting Disruptors
Laser Designator (More G2A missiles, why not?)
Virus Installation Tools
Sticky Cameras
Holographic Decoys

Passive Abilities (1 Ability Equippable):

Advanced Spotting (Shows HP Bars, lasts longer)
Bullet Tracing
Stealth Knifng
Vehicle Temporary Shutdown Hacking
Group Radar Cloaking
HE Grenade Spotting Enemies in X tradius

Suits (1 Suit Equippable):

Ghost Cloak - Only Pistol, invisible to enemies while static
Hunter Cloak - And any modifications of it.
Standard Armor - No cloak, Medic/Engineer level of Armor


Plus, I would really love Infiltrators to be able to ledgegrab and do acrobastics, a-la Splinter Cell. Though it is hardly doable in any forseeable future.

5. Binoculars. Binocs would be useful for observing areas and can be upgraded to Nightvision. Would be very useful for approaching a target.

As a replacement to primary weapon in Ghost cloak offered above. - Agreed.


Infiltrators - Low firepower, high utility.
Back to point 1 - offer a solution to snipers like myself please.

[Baneblade]

It seems to me that Sniper Rifles could potentially be added to the HA Secondary Weapon Pool.

[EVILPIG]

Back to point 1 - offer a solution to snipers like myself please.


Currently, I suggest moving sniper rifles to LA. LA has the ability to get to places others cannot. Perches. Some are concerned with this, so it certainly needs more discussion. Another possibility is developing a Sniper Class. All of this is open. Right now, I'm just fleshing out the Infiltrator.

[Kerrec]

Like the Grapple Gun. ;)

Sure.

A dangling rope may be a bit too much for the engine. I'd just make it look like a spawn beacon that sticks to things, points downward to the ground, and works like the elevators. Let any class (maybe not a Max) be able to use it.

[NewSith]

Currently, I suggest moving sniper rifles to LA. LA has the ability to get to places others cannot.

That exactly why it doesn't have a sniper rifle.

[Calisai]

Like the Grapple Gun. ;)

I'd give up my pistol for the grapple gun if i'm sniping... Even if it's only 1 or 2 charges.

I'd give up my main Weapon and roll with pistol only if it allowed for an optional recharge while not moving cloak.

[Calisai]

Honestly, I would move the Sniper rifles to LA.

As someone who plays LA as well as Sniper... I would love this... but it would be too OP.

The ability for LA to get to places that only other LA's would be able to get to, and to places that nobody would even THINK of looking for ya... combined with the reach out and kill ya aspect of snipers... Along with how quick LA's can move around.... I think it would just be too much.

Again... purely as a player of both, I would love it... but then... I loved putting a shotgun to the head of a player and pulling the trigger as Infil.... doesn't mean I didn't feel dirty afterword.

[camycamera]

they WILL NOT remove/move the sniper from the infiltrator class. i can guarantee it. i quite like the infiltrator class as a sniper class and as an infiltrator class as well. once there was an NC infil infiltrating a small outpost, hacking everything, so then i went infiltrator and unhacked everything and hunted the bastard down. it was thrilling. also, sniping the defenders of a base with a huge amount of players is just so epic.

but i dont get out that "spot gun" works.... it doesn't seem to do jack shit... it is supposed to reveal ememy positions on the minimap right? maybe i am not using it right...

anyway, yeah the class needs somewhat of an overhaul. just my two cents.

[Wahooo]

There is a reason snipers and cloakers have become the same class. A large part of snipers in real life is staying hidden and gillie suits. That type of cammo doesn't really work in a game, so the easy way to make them be sneaky is make them cloakers.

LA + sniper rifle as has been pointed out would be WAY OP. I've already spent time looking at places I would love to go with a sniper rifle but only the LA could get to. Just not ok really.

There are a few things in game I'd like to see the cert trees really made to make you give and take more. AMS/Sundy and Infil/Sniper are two. For starters the infiltrator's roll isn't limited because of the class design but the overall game design simply doesn't have enough of a roll for them. BUT class re-design or separate classes for Infil and Sniper aren't needed, just tweaks to the cert tree to make you have to give up one roll to specialize in the other.

[Chaff]

.
I like it. There's a lot of different ways one can go with PIG's general theme. I tend to think separate the INFILTRATOR & SNIPER roles to relative extremes. The SNIPER can essntially only snipe. Give him a little more ammo & better scope multi-options.

INFILTRATOR would be a Subterfuge Specialist. Tank mines & C4 is OP (IMO). The grapple hook is fine, or maybe a climbing ability somewhat akin to Assassin's creed.....stamina drain when used ? Also, when you "move" while climbing Vertically - you uncloak. Horizontal movement - you can maintain cloaked status, but still lose stamina.

I'd prefer SNIPER gets cloak mechanics of PS2, while INFILTRATORs get cloak mechanics of PS1. (I know, I'm Dreaming). I'd Love to see implants come back. Tweak some, lose some, think up a couple new ones, but bring back darklight. If either PS2 INFIL variant was OP - don't nerf - experiment with counter(s). Maybe a sniper radar deployable that would display them on the map for 3 minutes after shooting. These guys would have to shoot (or deploy their McGuyver shit) .... and MOVE. Only terminal or vehicle hacks would go detection free on mini maps.

This is the direction/changes/improvements I'd like to see.
.

[Sheppe]

Is it intentional that players can see "cloaked" infils at present? or is it a by-product of video card improvements / brightness levels a la ps1?

Im being deadly serious btw, I don't understand the point in giving infils a cloak if it's not going to hide you.

[Kerrec]

I don't think the intent of the cloak is to hide you when you're right beside someone. I also don't think the intent of the cloak is to hide you when you're moving.

A non moving cloaker at medium range is pretty much invisible. At least for my hardware/graphics setup...

[Dkamanus]

Since it's a infiltrator class, there should be somethings more about them:

This is a recon/infiltrate/sniper class. Give em some cameras to throw around the bases for protection and awereness. Being able to spot through those cameras will give it a more recon-like speciality.

Another thing, make his spot go to ALL members on his squad, without any need for distances. It's quite stupid to not have someone do the spotting job more often because the utility isn't that good.

Need moar, will thing of it later on.

[ShadetheDruid]

The current cloak is supposed to be a sort of motion-sensitive thing that relies on people to not be looking for you. If they know you're there and are actively looking, it's going to fail, but if they're busy or have no clue you are there, it's going to work against all but the most aware players (most of the playerbase is not this :p).

It's balanced that way because of the fact they have powerful primary weapons, if they had a perfect cloak it would just be waaaay OP. The one we're all waiting for is the stalker cloak: perfect (infinite) invisibility when stationary, no primary weapon. I have a feeling we're just waiting on them to add more stuff for infils to do, and ways to counter it (implants), before we get that.

[Hamma]

I'm fairly certain that someone (I think Higby) said they have talked about changing the LA to a more "Assassin" class.

[Ghoest9]

Honestly, I would move the Sniper rifles to LA.


Unless you play LA mostly - you would regret this.

[thegreekboy]

I like your ideas, but keep the SMGs. Just disable them for classes with certain items.

[EVILPIG]

Unless you play LA mostly - you would regret this.

LA would still have a wide variety of ways to cert and set up.

[Ghoest9]

LA would still have a wide variety of ways to cert and set up.

You totally missed my point.

JJ(or even drifters) + sniper rifles would extremely annoying to everyone else.

And if you make some sort of exclusion to jets and sniper rifles then you might as well just leave them on infs.

[DirtyBird]

This is my list of changes to shape and specialize the Infiltrator.

1. Remove Sniper Rifles and SMGs. Develop more handguns if needed.

2. Change Generators so that only infiltrators can interact with them. This should be done on a console, not the gen it's self. Also, everything shouldn't be tied to Gens. Put in hackable switches for certain shields within bases. Add more "hacking" for them.

3. Open up an array of traps. Give them access to anti-personel mines, AT mines, and C4. They should also get access to specialty grenades as well.

4. Specialized equipment. The game already has jumpjets for LA, no reason to not give Infiltrators the ability to use something like a Grapple Gun. It would have 2 charges and would leave the line in place until destroyed or another is fired.

5. Binoculars. Binocs would be useful for observing areas and can be upgraded to Nightvision. Would be very useful for approaching a target.


The Infiltrator should be about infiltrating an area or base and then causing havok. Either by hacking things, destroying things or making it unsafe for the enemy.

Infiltrators - Low firepower, high utility.

Sorry but on this occasion I say dream on, they will not completely revamp that class to such a degree as you have laid out here.

The OP actually come across as someone who has hardly ever played the class but yet reckons they know whats best for it.
It is highly possible tho that you are tired of getting head shot by them. :D

1. You really think they will remove the infiltrators main weapon?
All those hours/certs people have spent in the class and you think they will make a major revamp such as that?
Overnight patch comes, bang, sorry Infiltrator you no longer have that weapon you used for the last 200+hrs but hey you can run around just hacking things.

2. They can already hack turrets and the gens. You want to add more shields to the game just so your new infiltrator model has something to do?
Lets not leave it there, how about hacking vehicles?

3. They already have access to AP Mines x2 and the option to carry one of three different grenade types (3x them if they wear the bandolier).

4. Is the plan to make the location of those new hackable switches only reachable by grappling hook?
And dont say they can sit up a tree with their binoculars...

5. Binocs, I think you just chucked this in to make it five points. :lol:

[Takoita]

LA are good enough already. It is up there with CM and HA. No need for making dedicated sniper class either.

Infils need more things to do once inside the enemy base and more tools to do it with. Start off with C4, then add something like slipping through shields and/or sticky wall movement.

[Rolfski]

I generally agree with giving an infiltrator more options to infiltrate but not by limiting that class by taking away other roles like sniping or stealth CQB, it should be optional instead.

And there should also be options for other classes to cert into counter-infiltrator operations: cloak radar, explosive spotting & removing, counter-hacking, etc.

[Timealude]

The one thing I have a problem with with LA having snipers isnt the fact they can get on towers, its the fact that they could get on rocks that no one can shoot them from. Lets use Indar as an example.

You have a few areas like the rocks around broken arch and tarwich tower that would become hellish if LA could have sniper rifles. You would have to change the landscape yet again to balance out the constant flow of LA's getting up there and using it as a sniper nest. Other areas around the strong hold can also be made into an overly used sniper nest along with a few areas around Havar that im sure LA can reach if they wanted.

Now some might say you can already do this with the spawn beacons and the deploy opinion...Well giving it to someone with a jet pack only increases the problem as it makes it easier to get up into that area without a certain cooldown. I personally think there should be another glass which is a sniper. Give them ranged spotting and VIP targeting as well as an intel channel that they can relay info through text (not voice) that they can relay messages to command channel and put it on a Cooldown like orders so it wont be spammed.

[Rothnang]

I don't think Infiltrators should be the only class that can hack generators. Or at the very least, if infiltrators are the only class that can rig generators to blow make it so that other classes can destroy a generator by slapping enough explosives on it. The damage it takes to destroy one should be way more than any single character can carry in there and quickly deploy though.

I also don't think LAs should have sniper rifles. They should be allowed to have battle rifles though.

[Bravix]

I like the ideas, though I think they should keep the Sniper. Like they talked about during development, sniper infiltrators wouldn't have the same abilities as real infiltrators.

[ShadetheDruid]

I don't think Infiltrators should be the only class that can hack generators. Or at the very least, if infiltrators are the only class that can rig generators to blow make it so that other classes can destroy a generator by slapping enough explosives on it. The damage it takes to destroy one should be way more than any single character can carry in there and quickly deploy though.

I think two C4's worth of damage would be fine, that's a lot of resources used up on a single objective (out of many) after all. SCU gens and SCUs themselves should have more health, though (SCU gens more than other gens, and SCUs the most).

[Redshift]

traps aren't fun..... prox mines are already stupidly annoying since they're invisable when placed well, the whole idea of a fire and forget 1 hit kill is flawed

[Bravix]

traps aren't fun..... prox mines are already stupidly annoying since they're invisable when placed well, the whole idea of a fire and forget 1 hit kill is flawed

Very rarely do I get a one hit kill with proxies. It usually takes them down to the point where one more shot will kill them.

[Timealude]

Very rarely do I get a one hit kill with proxies. It usually takes them down to the point where one more shot will kill them.

I have actually gotten quite a few kills with them but I had to put them in smart areas where I know people will be running, like near capture points or a main hall way that will have alot of enemy traffic. They can be seen but you need to use NV to see them on the ground but there also seems to be a bug where you throw it down and it slides under the floor. Im sure they arent suppose to work like that...

[Rothnang]

I think two C4's worth of damage would be fine, that's a lot of resources used up on a single objective (out of many) after all. SCU gens and SCUs themselves should have more health, though (SCU gens more than other gens, and SCUs the most).

Resources don't mean shit, especially infantry resources since you can just stockpile consumables when you're getting crazy gains. Vehicle timers are the only thing in the game the introduces a hard restriction to what you can pull right now.

If you could kill a generator with just 2 C4s nobody would bother overloading them anymore.

traps aren't fun..... prox mines are already stupidly annoying since they're invisable when placed well, the whole idea of a fire and forget 1 hit kill is flawed

I agree, those weapons are just obnoxious. There just isn't enough you can do to avoid them.

I like something like the Halflife laser mines, they slow an enemy down if cleverly placed, and are potentially lethal, but they don't just blow someone up out of the blue.

[Eliphas]

Sir I have to agree with most of the ideas but number 1 I will never support.

[NUKABAZOOKA]

EP, I'd like for you to join the discussion on Markov Forums if you will. We have some thoughts about this post over there.

[Wahooo]

I think infiltrators need some kind of AA ability.

[Ghoest9]

I think infiltrators need some kind of AA ability.

lol
you win