[Betting Pool] AV MANA

[NewSith]

...is going to be nerfed real soon.


No Shield
Guided Missile
One shot with several second cooldown
Does not turn 180
Missile doesn't either
OSOK on infantry
OSOK on MAXes
Half-shield down by a near-miss
2 Shots for reaver and 2/3 damage to a Vanguard rear armor
Store (Depot) Purchase
Can still get switched to an ammobox via "B"




Nerf needed.


"Not OP" a single bit... The vid I promised:

MANA Turret AV Test720 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsjB64nfUNw)

That's just 1 person wielding it, mind you.

[Hamma]

No bet! :P

[Canaris]

I bet 10 googleplexes on the new comer!!

[NewSith]

Changed the OP.

[superseohyun]

uh oh, a deployed prowler is even more dead now lol

[JesNC]

For all its awesomeness it's still just a MANA turret.

- immobile
- no bullet shield
- sniper bait
- takes 1 tank shell/1 rocket to kill it and it's occupant
- giant 'shoot me' sign overhead

Additionally, it has no access to any kind of zoom. Sometimes you feel like playing pixel hunt.

[Chewy]

Iv been waiting on AV Mana turrets since Beta! I don't care what the cost is, I AM GOING TO GET IT. Even if it gets nerfed to 1% damage it's going on all my engie loadouts so I can finally be of use against armor that doesn't involve kamikaze mine runs.

I can still count on one hand the number of times Iv been able to put the Mana Turret to use outside of blocking doors and a quick/extended cover.

[Timealude]

ya i saw some today with my outfit, your a sitting duck in one of those things and make my job 4 times easier by not having a shield to block my shots.

[Rothnang]

I think it's fine to be honest.

It's not a weapon that you can use to face an armored vehicle head on, but then, neither is an HA rocket launcher.

The range on these things is amazing from what I can tell, it might very well be able to take multiple shots at a tank before he has zeroed in on your position at extreme range, so this thing will be very deadly in large fights when volley fired.

I actually like the fact that it doesn't have a shield. Makes it a lot harder to see.

I think when people get into the grove of how to deploy this thing it will be very useful. I like that it has a lot of downsides, because it keeps it from ursurping the rocket launchers role, and it rewards skillful and tactical play. These things are for setting traps, not for open battle.



The biggest reason why this weapon excites me is that it's a proof of technology. Hand guided weapons officially exist now, so we can expect them to become more prevalent and hopefully start to chip away at the dominance of lock-on weapons.

[NewSith]

About the no-shield belief - you do realise that with current rendering qualities, they are OP, since a gunner often doesn't render?


Besides the whole concept of the weapon being able to take down a vanguard with two shots in its back seems a little bit underrated, don't you think? Not to even mention that once people learn how to fire it around corners based on spotted targets (which is possible since the missile does not try and come back like a TOW missile in BF), it will become THE ULTIMATE shield-camping machine.

As a sidenote, I myself imagined AV MANA to be a deployable AV MAX weapon installation with unlimited ammo. That's definitely less OP.

[Rothnang]

Shield camping sucks no matter what weapon you do it with. I personally wish they would make shields block all shots, even if they belong to you.

The fact that the missile doesn't loop back also makes it weaker in some respects. For example if you're shooting at a moving target and you miss you can't adjust your aim and make the missile come back and hit it.

[Thunderhawk]

On Indar on Miller Gunners render fine from great distances ;)

(They really need to add the render fix to all maps and all servers now)

And no it wont get nerfed, I really cannot see why when it can be taken out by one direct tank shell hit, or some HE rounds near it.

[Wahooo]

For all its awesomeness it's still just a MANA turret.

- immobile
- no bullet shield
- sniper bait
- takes 1 tank shell/1 rocket to kill it and it's occupant
- giant 'shoot me' sign overhead
.

I'll wait till I see them for a bit before making much judgement, but the only way i'd be getting one is if I don't laugh and think "oh free sniper kill" every time I see one get set up. The new bullet shield has helped some with the regular mana turret... some.

[Baneblade]

How well do they take each other out?

[ShadetheDruid]

About the no-shield belief - you do realise that with current rendering qualities, they are OP, since a gunner often doesn't render?

If they're anything like the AI MANA turrets, anyone on a turret will render regardless of whether the infantry around them are or not. You can often see people manning turrets when nothing else around them is rendering.

[Sifer2]

I think used in the standard manner it will fail due to Snipers who will love when you use it. However used creatively yes it will border on OP. By that I mean flying on to a hilltop behind the enemy tank column an just laying waste to everything with it before your noticed. Also I hear that certing into cooldown reduction allows you to fire multiple shots at once. Which is crazy considering its on par with Devastator.

[Chewy]

I think used in the standard manner it will fail due to Snipers who will love when you use it. However used creatively yes it will border on OP. By that I mean flying on to a hilltop behind the enemy tank column an just laying waste to everything with it before your noticed. Also I hear that certing into cooldown reduction allows you to fire multiple shots at once. Which is crazy considering its on par with Devastator.

Certing the AV Mana only give up to a 4.5 tick reload time. It starts at 6 ticks and gos to ( I think) 5.75, 5.5, 5, 4.5 with the normal inflation of certs for each rank.

[Ghoest9]

I dont see it being nerfed.

[PredatorFour]

Nerf one of the only AV weapons that requires skill?? These are saron fodder anyway.

I'd rather see removal of lock on av tbh.

[Brusi]

I will bet nude photos of my girlfriend that it won't be getting nerfed in 2013.

[Rothnang]

We'll see how much of an impact rocket curving ultimately makes. If it deprives tanks of cover the same way aircraft have no cover it could really break the vehicle game completely. I suspect it might not be as effective as people make it out to be though.

[Synical]

Nerf one of the only AV weapons that requires skill?? These are saron fodder anyway.

I'd rather see removal of lock on av tbh.

So true. I don't see how it is OP, personally.

First, as with the AI Turret, the gunner is vulnerable, it is not hard to flank 'em and take 'em out with a little teamwork and in this case the AV Turret lacks a shield, making them very vulnerable to sniper fire.

Second, the re-fire time is pretty long and even at maximum certification it takes 4.5 seconds before you can fire your second rocket. If you are in a Vanguard and you get hit in your rear armor by a rocket and decide to sit there for another 4.5 - 7 seconds you are doing it wrong.

Third, in order to kill a Vanguard or other MBT in two shots in the first place, you will need to hit the tank from behind. The Engineer will either need to already have his turret in a good position or he/she will have to pack it up and move it, which takes time and makes the Engineer vulnerable. It is not like the Engineer is always going to have an optimal position for his/her turret 100% of the time.

Lastly, as far as killing enemies around corners is concerned, you said it yourself, that will take time, AND SKILL. Engineers will need to get a feel for the wire guidance mechanic and build up their skill level with it. The key word is SKILL. If they are skilled enough to be able to do so more power to them and they should be rewarded with some XP. It's not like the rocket turns on a dime, it takes SKILL which is something that should be rewarded, not discouraged.

I saw a video of a Vanguard driver annihilating aircraft with his main AT cannon with impunity and that is FAR from easy. Should the Vanguards cannon be nerfed just because a FEW people built up an amazing skill level with it? Of course not, it's not something that everyone can do. That is how I feel about this particular complaint. A weapon is added that takes skill to use and people are ALREADY yelling nerf because it has the POTENTIAL to be devastating if used by someone with skill? :rolleyes:

[Chewy]

Nerf one of the only AV weapons that requires skill?? These are saron fodder anyway.

I'd rather see removal of lock on av tbh.

Iv been using the AV Mana all day and that fucking Saron has killed me more than anything else today. It one shots the turret and I have maybe 1 shot before it's camped and I get instantly killed by snipers or a good MBT driver/gunner.

Plus it takes so many shots for a vehicle kill. It'll one hit infantry dead on but Iv put 4-5 sots in a Mags front and not kill it. An ESF takes at least 2. To be honest Iv killed as many friendlies as enemies with the AV Mana so far. SO many idiots walking in front of a RPG launcher after seeing me use it.

Will say that if you find a good spot you'll be able to pepper anything you want once you learn the flight times and the rockets turning speed. I was able to hit a lot with it. Including a Gal that I wasn't going for. In testing the AV Mana at the WG I went to a near portal to see it's range outside of the shield. The first shot I fired hit a friendly Gal coming out of the WG and made it him go into the best evasive maneuvers he had. I laughed my ass off seeing him go crazy. It only did like 5%, but damn did it scare the fuck out of him!

[Baneblade]

I will bet nude photos of my girlfriend that it won't be getting nerfed in 2013.

I will be the trustee for this bet.

[Forsaken One]

Its starting to feel like PS1 again... at least when you face the NC spamming their camera guided missiles like arty shells everywhere.........

[Canaris]

one will get you ten that this is how the new Phoenix launcher works and that's a good thing as far as the alternative of them being tv guided.

[Pella]

Rate of fire is way to slow to be even remotely OP.

Plus your a sitting duck.

[NewSith]

If they're anything like the AI MANA turrets, anyone on a turret will render regardless of whether the infantry around them are or not. You can often see people manning turrets when nothing else around them is rendering.


That's not true actually. You can often see turrets that have no gunner and yet they shoot. Some thing with ATVs without drivers. Go snipe for a while and you'll see how often that is actually happening.


Also I'll probably post a video here tonight (As in - European tonight) where my riduculously large group consisting of less than a dozen people uses the weapon and how effective they actually are.

[ShadetheDruid]

That's not true actually. You can often see turrets that have no gunner and yet they shoot. Some thing with ATVs without drivers. Go snipe for a while and you'll see how often that is actually happening.

Really? Weird. I often see manned turrets in places where the rest of the infantry around them aren't rendering, and as soon as they get off the turret they disappear. Maybe we have different settings or something?

I always just assumed the driver-less Flash thing was a bug. :D Though it's always funny to see a Flash drive past 10ft away from you without a driver, it's like the Flash is being haunted.

[ruskyandrei]

I bet it won't get nerfed. It's just people who don't use it overreacting like always.

[Hmr85]

Its starting to feel like PS1 again... at least when you face the NC spamming their camera guided missiles like arty shells everywhere.........

Oh don't worry the Phoenix will still be making a return. :D

[Tatwi]

Risk vs. Reward. Render distance changes invalidate any "OP" complaints about this weapon. The user is even more exposed than the other lolmanatarget users.

Turrets really should be replaced with something cooler looking and more fun to use, like thesehttp://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/images/thumb/6/65/OspreyFront.jpg/796px-OspreyFront.jpg

[Hmr85]

Risk vs. Reward. Render distance changes invalidate any "OP" complaints about this weapon. The user is even more exposed than the other lolmanatarget users.

Turrets really should be replaced with something cooler looking and more fun to use, like thesehttp://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/images/thumb/6/65/OspreyFront.jpg/796px-OspreyFront.jpg

I agree.

[Chewy]

Risk vs. Reward. Render distance changes invalidate any "OP" complaints about this weapon. The user is even more exposed than the other lolmanatarget users.

Turrets really should be replaced with something cooler looking and more fun to use, like these]

Not true. The hit boxes for the 2 Mana turrets are the same. Only difference is the shield in front of the AIMT. I got a crap video uploading now that compares the 2 and when I tested the hitboxes they where the exact same. The AVMTs hitbox is even bigger than the gun itself.

So amount of cover is the same, it's just the there's no shield to give you away or stop bullets with the AVMT.

[NewSith]

"Not OP" a single bit... The vid I promised:

MANA Turret AV Test720 - YouTube

That's just 1 person wielding it, mind you.

[Pella]

"Not OP" a single bit... The vid I promised:

MANA Turret AV Test720 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsjB64nfUNw)

That's just 1 person wielding it, mind you.

About 3 Kills in 10mins is OP? Where you could of Archived the same thing with HA & annihilator Launcher. And still move about.

Also whats with all the Blurring out?

[NewSith]

About 3 Kills in 10mins is OP? Where you could of Archived the same thing with HA & annihilator Launcher. And still move about.

I don't think you see what is happening on the screen:

The fella goes TOTALLY uncountered, killing people. Now imagine the same situation, multiplied by 5.

[Pella]

I don't think you see what is happening on the screen:

The fella goes TOTALLY uncountered, killing people. Now imagine the same situation, multiplied by 5.

Same applys to everything in PS2.

X5 Sniper
X5 MAXes
X5 Tanks

ect.

The VS had a bunch of these camping our warpgate on indar today. Yet nothing they could do versus Air.

I can see what your saying though. I used mine today in a Bio Lab spamming the door to the generator. But you can get the same result with a HA.