How an intercontinental lattice could be started with only 3 continents

[psijaka]

How an intercontinental lattice could be started with only 3 continents

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee391/psijaka/intercontinentalsmall_zps3e838633.png

In this example, we have the 3 continents that we have now linked together in a simple linear lattice. There are 2 rules:

1/ An empire cannot lose their last warpgate.
2/ An empire loses access to their warpgate if they get warpgate camped and their warpgates on adjoining continent(s) are also "camped".

Thus, if NC get pushed back to their warpgate on Esamir and Amerish, then they lose access to Esamir until such time as they break out of their warpgate in Amerish.

If, however, they get warpgate camped on Indar as well (unlikely) then they also lose access to Amerish until such time as they break out on Indar. But they don't lose Indar, as this is their last open warpgate.

Problem - doubt that this would work in practice as unlikely an empire would get camped on 2 adjacent warpgates.

Solution - amendment to rule 2:

2/ An empire loses access to their warpgate if they lose all major outposts on that continent and adjoining continent(s). Major outposts means Tech plant, Biodome or AMP station (or any other major outpost SoE may introduce in future). This would mean that it would be much more likely that an empire could get pushed off 2 adjacent continents.

Losing access to a continent would mean no respawning or capping there. Any survivors would have the option of redeploying to an available continent.

Expansion. Future continents must be added such that they have limited access to the lattice, otherwise it is unlikely that access would ever become restricted.

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee391/psijaka/intercontinentalexpansion_zps18431972.png

Edit - summary of rules:
1/ An empire cannot lose their last warpgate.
2/ An empire loses access to their warpgate if they lose all major outposts on that continent and adjoining continent(s).

Anyone got any other ideas on how this could be done?

[psijaka]

Diagrams added

[RedKartel]

I really like the idea.

This would give defense more meaning and (maybe) more fights on other continents. However I'm wondering if this wont lead to more zerg fights over Amp/Biodome/Tech (with the rendering issue) leaving other hexes as ghost town?

Thanks for sharing though.

[psijaka]

I really like the idea.

This would give defense more meaning and (maybe) more fights on other continents. However I'm wondering if this wont lead to more zerg fights over Amp/Biodome/Tech (with the rendering issue) leaving other hexes as ghost town?

Thanks for sharing though.

Thanks for the feedback. :)

You've got a point about it maybe concentrating the action more at the major outposts at the expense of the smaller outposts. Not sure how this would work out in practice, but maybe it would be a good thing; a lot of people do want more major fights.

There could be other ways of determining when a faction loses a warpgate, such as if the area they hold drops below 10% of the continent. Not as immediately obvious to players as to when this is about to happen though.

[RedKartel]

Well as a second thought about secondary objectives, they could add some Global SCU in 2 or 3 other outposts (with a good level of defensibility), that and major outposts losses would mean no more warpgate.

Its easy to add in the game as SCU mechanicms are already implemented, and easily perceptibale by players.

[Rivenshield]

I still want sanctuaries and rotating warpgates, though.

Just sayin.'

[Phantomdestiny]

the problem i see with it is that we won't get home continents as your proposal will make "foothold" warpgates rotates as they are being captured

[CraazyCanuck]

I like this idea very much. Knocking out a faction’s ability to warpgate to another continent is fantastic and tying that in with a global SCU idea is even better. Anything that forces more defense is always a good thing in my book. I never played PS1 and I'm not sure if this was the case, but I would like to see the ability of one faction to cut off the ability for mobile spawning. As stated above if a faction is not in possession of atleast 1 of the three main facilities, they lose the ability to spawn out in the field with the corresonding medium. Mechanized plant you loose sunderer AMS, Bio lab you lose spawn beacons, Amp you lose galaxy AMS or some combination thereof. Loose all three and you cannot warp to another continent. But one more part and this one involves a temporary (battery backup etc)

They need to add a tunnel system for defense under every factions warp gate. This tunnel system will house a generator that kicks in, in the event that faction is no longer in possession of any main facilities. This generator powers the use of the warp gate for a small period of time to allow that continents forces the ability bring in more forces or send more out in an attempt to consolidate their resources on another continent. It also powers that warp gates scu in correlation with the other continents generator. Once it is taken out or that time period passes, the generator functions no longer and the faction looses ties to the other continents and to the global SCU. Unless they are able to reestablish control over one of the main facilities. No more spawning at this warp gate. The enemy faction does not take it over, but it becomes a dead zone that provides another significant bonus to the conquering faction who must maintain a defensive force there.

But. And here's the but. The link between two generators can be powered for a small window of time from the other side if the forces of one of the other continents come into possession of an ancient satellite power relay station(s) in combination with at least three of the main facilities on their continent.

Once in possession of the relay(s) in tandem with minimum requirement of main facilities, that continents forces can cause an overload of power to transfer through to the dead zone, temporarily opening the warp gate and powering the scu through the link for a small period of time allowing forces to warp in, in attempt to take back the dead warp gate. Conducting this overload has consequences on the "powering" continent. They lose mobile spawning or some equivalent negative consequence while the overload is occurring and for a short time after as the system restarts/repairs its circuits.

The more facilities the "powering" faction has in its possession as well as these relay stations, the longer the overload can exist and the quicker the system can recover. The ancient satellite, however, cannot relay this amount of energy indefinitely and needs time to "cooldown" as well.

This is just a quick idea I had but I think it could add quite the dynamic to a possible meta game.

Thoughts? Ideas?

[Crator]

I never played PS1 and I'm not sure if this was the case, but I would like to see the ability of one faction to cut off the ability for mobile spawning. As stated above if a faction is not in possession of atleast 1 of the three main facilities, they lose the ability to spawn out in the field with the corresonding medium. Mechanized plant you loose sunderer AMS, Bio lab you lose spawn beacons, Amp you lose galaxy AMS or some combination thereof. Loose all three and you cannot warp to another continent.

What's the point of removing the AMS or field spawning though? They've already lost the facilities. Why make it even harder for them to try and come back by removing field spawns?

And if you loose all 3 and can't warp to another cont, what does that empire then do? Get farmed without any field spawn tools? Sounds like a good time to log off imo.

[CraazyCanuck]

Makes a point of a strong defense in combination with offense. That faction has a small window to warpgate over reinforcements, and they can still spawn at their warpgate for a an alloted time. Perhaps when this happens an automatic emergency message pops for the whole faction across all the continents as that warpgate becomes in jeopardy. Its then a decision of those on the other continents to choose whether to respond to the distress call. Also, puts more onus on medics as well during this time.

And its not like that faction doesn't have a chance to reclaim their warpgate. Sure it will take some time and some focus, but imo that's what this game is missing. That next level of strategy.

Like I said just a quick idea and coming up with more meaningful gameplay. Finer points can be worked on or perhaps a better idea come along from discussing it, but I think it would improve the game over all.

[psijaka]

the problem i see with it is that we won't get home continents as your proposal will make "foothold" warpgates rotates as they are being captured

Why is that a problem? Just asking.

[psijaka]

Just to clarify CraazyCanuck, under my proposals an empire would only lose the warpgate on a continent if they lose all of the major outposts on that continent AND on any continents joined to it on the lattice.

So in my top diagram, to lose the warpgate on Esamir, they would have to have lost all of the major outposts on Esamir AND Amerish, as it is lattice connected.

You've got some interesting ideas there; I just wanted to make a simple proposal that could be "fleshed out" in detail.

[Babyfark McGeez]

I don't think that's a problem, just a different design philosophy.

In my opinion permanent home continents are an important aspect of the feeling of a persistant MMO world (they could and should have a recognizable faction design aswell), whereas your solution does not provide such a "home" but instead a more dynamic world.

Which is not bad, just a different approach. But since this game is allready hardly recognizable as MMO i would prefer distuingishable home continents that provide some immersion and attachment to your faction.

Or to put it this way: Some want "Orgrimmar" and not "Warpgate C on Esamir".

That being said i think your idea would be the perfect solution untill we have enough continents for permanent homeworlds.

[CraazyCanuck]

While the idea of a static home warpgate would be nice and something SOE could enhance as mentioned in other posts, I think a more dynamic alternative in that the last warpgate, as you've stated as being their bastion, is simply the last warpgate in that factions possession. More realistic and follows the ever changing chaos of war.

It could be expanded upon, where instead of a dead zone, the conquerers take full possession of the warp gate, with always the possibility of the original holders of that warpgate dialing in from another continent. With this option the last hold warpgate could become a formerly conquered factions warpgate.

The idea here is to make defense viable and pertinent. Loosing a major facility has serious ramifications instead of oh well, we'll get to it on the next go around.

But perhaps it would be too hardcore for the general masses I don't know. For me the only step from here is to add more challenge or strategy alternatives to improve the game as a whole.

[psijaka]

I don't think that's a problem, just a different design philosophy.

In my opinion permanent home continents are an important aspect of the feeling of a persistant MMO world (they could and should have a recognizable faction design aswell), whereas your solution does not provide such a "home" but instead a more dynamic world.

Which is not bad, just a different approach. But since this game is allready hardly recognizable as MMO i would prefer distuingishable home continents that provide some immersion and attachment to your faction.

Or to put it this way: Some want "Orgrimmar" and not "Warpgate C on Esamir".

That being said i think your idea would be the perfect solution untill we have enough continents for permanent homeworlds.

Do you think that there would be much action on the "home" continent? If the opposing empire's couldn't push you off, then they would only attack it if you had been pushed off all the other continents; nothing in it for them.

Seems like a waste of a continent; much prefer a more dynamic approach where you can take nothing for granted.

[psijaka]

While the idea of a static home warpgate would be nice and something SOE could enhance as mentioned in other posts, I think a more dynamic alternative in that the last warpgate, as you've stated as being their bastion, is simply the last warpgate in that factions possession. More realistic and follows the ever changing chaos of war.

It could be expanded upon, where instead of a dead zone, the conquerers take full possession of the warp gate, with always the possibility of the original holders of that warpgate dialing in from another continent. With this option the last hold warpgate could become a formerly conquered factions warpgate.

The idea here is to make defense viable and pertinent. Loosing a major facility has serious ramifications instead of oh well, we'll get to it on the next go around.

But perhaps it would be too hardcore for the general masses I don't know. For me the only step from here is to add more challenge or strategy alternatives to improve the game as a whole.

That's an interesting mechanic you are suggesting there; introduces a dynamic means by which warpgates can be swapped around on a continent; much better than a status quo situation or an enforced rotation!

If an empire "captures" a warpgate, they would then have 2 on a continent. What would happen when the losing empire finally regained access to the continent through the lattice; how would the choice between the 2 held by the conquering empire be made?

Could be random, or could be the least used. Or should they get to choose? Not so keen on letting them choose - almost like a reward for losing one on the first place. Think that I would go for the least used.

Edit:
I still want sanctuaries and rotating warpgates, though.

Just sayin.'

Canuck's suggestion would provide for rotating warpgates.

[Babyfark McGeez]

Do you think that there would be much action on the "home" continent? If the opposing empire's couldn't push you off, then they would only attack it if you had been pushed off all the other continents; nothing in it for them.

Seems like a waste of a continent; much prefer a more dynamic approach where you can take nothing for granted.

Hmmm, isn't that the point of a home cont? To only be attacked when the continents "infront" of it are taken? But you have a point, the continent wouldn't see much fights.

When i think about it, i would love a combination of your idea with sanctuaries that have broadcast warpgates where you simply choose your destination. Would be the best of both worlds imo:

- A permanent Home
- Dynamic global warfare
- No wasted continent

[Sturmhardt]

Great thread, I like the idea, maybe the debs can use something from here.

.sent via phone.

[Dougnifico]

I see a potential problem. What if one empire gets constantly railed on a server? If the VS were at a major disadvantage then they might be stuck on one continent for an extended period. This would only make people leave that faction and create population imbalance.

[psijaka]

Great thread, I like the idea, maybe the debs can use something from here.

.sent via phone.

Thanks for the feedback :)

Maybe I should post this on the official forum.

[psijaka]

I see a potential problem. What if one empire gets constantly railed on a server? If the VS were at a major disadvantage then they might be stuck on one continent for an extended period. This would only make people leave that faction and create population imbalance.

You've got a point here, but that could apply to any kind of continent locking.

Not sure whether it would happen in practice though; as the empire under the cosh gets more and more squeezed, their forces become more thickly concentrated on their remaining continent, whilst the other 2 empires are spread more thinly, fighting each other on several fronts.

[Satanam]

What if we need to convert some small outposts around a Bio Lab/Tech Plant/AMP Station from, for example, NC to TR (in this case, TR attacking NC area - orly) in order to keep the cap bar going? For example, if TR tries to cap Allatum Bio Lab with only 1 of the small outposts around for TR, the cap bar at Bio Lab would move slow as hell and with each +1 small outpost, it would be faster plus, maybe, give some extra exp (not much, but still).
It would make people fight everywhere, because, in this example, TR would need the small outposts to make it faster, and NC would try to cap the small outposts so they could get some time to reorganize and defend Allatum Bio Lab.
After the big base is captured, then it keeps locked for some minutes (maybe, not sure if it would be a nice idea).

[CraazyCanuck]

That's an interesting mechanic you are suggesting there; introduces a dynamic means by which warp gates can be swapped around on a continent; much better than a status quo situation or an enforced rotation!

If an empire "captures" a warp gate, they would then have 2 on a continent. What would happen when the losing empire finally regained access to the continent through the lattice; how would the choice between the 2 held by the conquering empire be made?

Need more coffee to clear the webs from a long night of no sleep but no they don't get to choose. Bare with me and hopefully the lack of sleep won't make this sound like rambling. I'm torn the more I think on this and some of the ideas stray from the my original thoughts but I think that each warp gate would still be connected to the same classification warp gate on the other continent regardless of who is in possession of it.

So say the A warp gate on Indar is connected to the A warp gate on Esamir to the A warp gate on Amerish. B on Indar connected to B on Esamir, you get the idea. So only A can dial into an A for a direct assault through a relay surge. The only thing is, is it’s not a strict linear lattice. This might be easier from a dev’s perspective as opposed to a completely dynamic method where a warp gate and dial any other warp gate or if all the same classification warp gates can dial each other across all the continents. Complete madness!

This would make it even harder to lock down anything. Another option for electronic warfare could stem from this as a warp gate could have a defensive measure against being relay assaulted and in turn an offensive counter would be required to weaken that integrity of that defense aka hacking the target warp gate's defensive grid from within/out to allow for the surge to take place on any warp gate that was not a faction’s last one. There could be a measure to give the defenders more time to muster their forces as an alarm is set off by the intrusion depending on the result of this gameplay. (Within Infiltrator/Without Engineer) It's a possibility not a necessity.

The only time there is a restriction on the dialing by one side or another is if the warp gate is a faction’s last warp gate. It can then only be dialed out. The key here would be finding the sweet spot on the relay surge timer and allow for multiple relays from a continent at the same time to allow for multi-pronged assaults against ABC points on the same continent.

Something like this as the initial start-up:

Indar: A-----B-----C
I I I
Esamir: A-----B-----C
I I I
Amerish:A-----B-----C

So for instance as an example if we had two factions down to their last warp gate:

Indar: TR-----TR-----TR
I I I
Esamir: TR-----TR-----NC
I I I
Amerish: VS-----TR-----TR

Vanu options to regain Esamir would be to directly assault Esamir A through a relay surge from A to A or to capture B and/or C and try for a relay surge to its direct counter point on Esamir. But the only problem I see is the advantage/disadvantage with holding a warpgate on Esamir. In the example above NC would have more options for relay targets, but they in turn have two defend against those same targets. This is where the timer on a warp gates relay would help balance things out as it comes into effect regardless of whether it’s an inbound or outbound relay with the only modifier being the number of installations and relay stations held on the continent. So a warp gate will be limited on relay assaults or defends by the same timer to prevent the middle layer from being zerged from the other two continents.

Clear as mud :)

[psijaka]

Got to confess, I'm not quite getting what you are suggesting here, Canuck. Maybe time for me to have some coffee. Or shoot some Vanu.

[Neutral Calypso]

We need continents similar to that "Sanctuary" idea of old. I say each faction gets a home continent that doubles as a training ground for the faction, would also be nice in that you'd be able to fly your ESF around learning to fly it without getting your sorry arse shot up by TEH ENEMY. I mean, the warp gates are pretty small areas for learning to fly.

[Mietz]

How an intercontinental lattice could be started with only 3 continents

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee391/psijaka/intercontinentalsmall_zps3e838633.png

In this example, we have the 3 continents that we have now linked together in a simple linear lattice. There are 2 rules:

1/ An empire cannot lose their last warpgate.
2/ An empire loses access to their warpgate if they get warpgate camped and their warpgates on adjoining continent(s) are also "camped".

Thus, if NC get pushed back to their warpgate on Esamir and Amerish, then they lose access to Esamir until such time as they break out of their warpgate in Amerish.

If, however, they get warpgate camped on Indar as well (unlikely) then they also lose access to Amerish until such time as they break out on Indar. But they don't lose Indar, as this is their last open warpgate.

Problem - doubt that this would work in practice as unlikely an empire would get camped on 2 adjacent warpgates.

Solution - amendment to rule 2:

2/ An empire loses access to their warpgate if they lose all major outposts on that continent and adjoining continent(s). Major outposts means Tech plant, Biodome or AMP station (or any other major outpost SoE may introduce in future). This would mean that it would be much more likely that an empire could get pushed off 2 adjacent continents.

Losing access to a continent would mean no respawning or capping there. Any survivors would have the option of redeploying to an available continent.

Expansion. Future continents must be added such that they have limited access to the lattice, otherwise it is unlikely that access would ever become restricted.

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee391/psijaka/intercontinentalexpansion_zps18431972.png

Edit - summary of rules:
1/ An empire cannot lose their last warpgate.
2/ An empire loses access to their warpgate if they lose all major outposts on that continent and adjoining continent(s).

Anyone got any other ideas on how this could be done?

How is this not going to lead to a constant fight on Amerish?
Forces coming from Esamir and wanting to go to Indar would need to cross Amerish? Or what exactly is this going to accomplish? What exactly is linked? WG? Resources?

I'm sorry, but I can't see how this is going to work without you showing how the warpgates themselves are interlinked.

Afaik there is Figments theorycraft of a 3-continent lattice and there is only one possible (fair, balanced) solution for it without creating a 2v1 situation every time.


http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=49302

[psijaka]

@ mietz
I would still envisage that you can warp from any warpgate held by an empire to any other warpgate held by an empire. My proposal is only about an empire losing access to a warpgate on a continent, not about how warping occurs.

Please could you post a link to Figment's thread; I would be interested to see it.

Edit - you've got a point about Amerish; in both of my OP examples this continent has more links than the others. The only practical way to ensure that each continent has equal strategic importance would be to create a single or double ring lattice; this applies whatever capture/influence mechanics are used. Examples below:

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee391/psijaka/uniformlatticeshapes_zps2395ea79.png

More complex structures are of course possible, but would be difficult to expand without creating imbalance. Even the double ring requires that continents be added in pairs to maintain the structure.

[psijaka]

We need continents similar to that "Sanctuary" idea of old. I say each faction gets a home continent that doubles as a training ground for the faction, would also be nice in that you'd be able to fly your ESF around learning to fly it without getting your sorry arse shot up by TEH ENEMY. I mean, the warp gates are pretty small areas for learning to fly.

It would be nice to have a training area that doubled as a home cont, but I can't see SoE devoting a lot of time to creating these; they would have to be carbon copies of the existing continents, or smaller simplified continents cut and paste from the existing ones.

Creating home continents does create a balance problem as more continents are added piecemeal; how do they ensure that the home conts have equal access to the lattice?

[RSphil]

well my one concern is if you lock a continent at this moment time you will be locking some players out of the game. this is why they have not done this with 3 continents. i wouldnt want to sit in a que and wait until someone leaves or another cont is unlocked.

just a though.

[psijaka]

Perfectly valid concern, RS.

Guaranteed to turn a player off the game!

[CraazyCanuck]

Got to confess, I'm not quite getting what you are suggesting here, Canuck. Maybe time for me to have some coffee. Or shoot some Vanu.

Let's try this. Mind you this is strictly for warp gate assault if we allow dynamic capture. Let's see if this helps explain what I have in mind.

[RSphil]

Perfectly valid concern, RS.

Guaranteed to turn a player off the game!

this was mentioned a while back and the dev team said what i did. until there is enough playing space to accommodate a full cont lock it will not be in place. with the 3 new ones coming they are looking at locking them out if a faction kick the other 2 off a cont.
we shall wait and see. would make defending more important which is lacking atm.

your idea has merit though and id say something like this may come into the game. we shall have to see what they have planed.

[psijaka]

With the addition of the 2 continents planned for this year, it would be possible to link them into a simple ring lattice, below left.

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee391/psijaka/uniformlatticeshapes_zps2395ea79.png