15 Minutes Of The 3 New SMGs Introduced In GU3

[TGxCraig]

So I spent some time with the new SMGs and they were enjoyable for sure. The TR got the best one as usual simply due to the extra 10 rounds it has in its magazine. While using the VS SMG, I just didn't get the feeling that it was that great, at least not compared to the other two. Maybe it was the balanced horizontal recoil which I'm not a fan of, but it just didn't connect with me like the other two SMGs.

PlanetSide 2: The Three New SMGs From The Latest Update - YouTube

I'll have a much more in depth video on the GD-10 Blitz as it will become my new go-to gun for my LA.

[Mastodon]

I actually prefer the first Vanu SMG to this new one. I couldn't give a reason besides that it "feels" better.

[TGxCraig]

I actually prefer the first Vanu SMG to this new one. I couldn't give a reason besides that it "feels" better.

Pretty much my stance on it. The stats show it should be great compared to the other 2 SMGs, but it just doesn't feel great when used.

[Koadster]

NC/VS SMG does same damage as the new TR one but fire 45rof faster.

You wont be using 50 rounds in a 1v1 engagement so no the TR didnt get the better SMG

[Baneblade]

I like the new NC SMG, almost feels like a Compensator would be a waste of cert points, but I'll probably check it out anyway.

[Tatwi]

NC/VS SMG does same damage as the new TR one but fire 45rof faster.

You wont be using 50 rounds in a 1v1 engagement so no the TR didnt get the better SMG

Compared to the "old" TR one, the new one is simply better. I could not tell the difference in the rate of fire (the "old" one is faster). New one is the same, only with twice as much ammo. If you're going to buy one and you are TR, buy the 60 round SMG.

[TGxCraig]

NC/VS SMG does same damage as the new TR one but fire 45rof faster.

You wont be using 50 rounds in a 1v1 engagement so no the TR didnt get the better SMG

I assume that every encounter I make will be versus at least two enemies. With my play-style, that is typically the case. I play very aggressive; I'm always either on the front-lines or flanking around to the sides of the front-lines. I'd say 80-85% of my encounters, if not more, are against more than one person.

I like the new NC SMG, almost feels like a Compensator would be a waste of cert points, but I'll probably check it out anyway.

Since making this video, I have purchased the GD-10 Blitz and certed the laser sight, advanced laser sight, and the compensator. There is a noticeable difference with the compensator, but nothing too serious. If the 100 certs is not too big a loss, go for it.

[Rasui]

Anyone else feel like these new SMG's are a clear upgrade over the first batch?

[JesNC]

Anyone else feel like these new SMG's are a clear upgrade over the first batch?

I don't tbh, at least not for NC. You get a 23% increased RoF at the expense of a 25% reduced bullet damage (and I rather take damage over RoF) and you lose out on a bit of projectile velocity, just for an increase in ammo capacity - when the classes that get the most use out of the SMGs have enough opportunities to dodge out of a fight to reload.

I am happy that I bought the Cyclone and I don't think I'll buy the other one ever.

On my TR char on the other hand I might get the new PDW.

[Rasui]

I don't tbh, at least not for NC. You get a 23% increased RoF at the expense of a 25% reduced bullet damage (and I rather take damage over RoF) and you lose out on a bit of projectile velocity, just for an increase in ammo capacity - when the classes that get the most use out of the SMGs have enough opportunities to dodge out of a fight to reload.

I am happy that I bought the Cyclone and I don't think I'll buy the other one ever.

On my TR char on the other hand I might get the new PDW.

Hmm... I suppose I should have said VS SMG. Wasn't really thinking about the other factions.

[ShadetheDruid]

For me at least, Eridani > Sirius. I haven't trialed the Sirius but I did trial the Hailstorm, enough to know that I suffer the same issues with it as I do all other low damage weapons (and since the Sirius has the same damage, I think it would apply to that too).

If you're good with low damage, high rate of fire weapons then it might seem like the new ones are better, but that doesn't mean that's universal.

[Thunderhawk]

Sticking with the First VS SMG and not bothering buying the second one.

Think of it as one is for more damage but you have to be accurate, the other does less damage but you can spray and pray.

I tend to try to hit my targets with every bullet so first one does fine.

Also the first SMG reloads faster than the second one...... and in my expreince (after buying Serpent and then going back to the VX6-7) Reload time > all when you ar facing multiple opponents running at you....

[Rasui]

For me at least, Eridani > Sirius. I haven't trialed the Sirius but I did trial the Hailstorm, enough to know that I suffer the same issues with it as I do all other low damage weapons (and since the Sirius has the same damage, I think it would apply to that too).

If you're good with low damage, high rate of fire weapons then it might seem like the new ones are better, but that doesn't mean that's universal.
So... Eridani > Sirius because you're bad at controlling recoil or whatever "issues" means? How exactly does that not make the Sirius overall a superior weapon?


Also the first SMG reloads faster than the second one...... and in my expreince (after buying Serpent and then going back to the VX6-7) Reload time > all when you ar facing multiple opponents running at you....
I'm sorry, but how exactly can you make this comparison when the Sirius has double the base magazine capacity of the Eridani? That would only work if the Serpent had a 60 round magazine. At which point I don't think reloading would be the issue.

I'm not trying to be a smartass or pick on anybody. It's just I don't understand how any kind of weapon comparison can be made when people keep bringing up their personal preferences or making comparisons that don't line up at all.

[Thunderhawk]

Sorry dude, you asked for our opinions, we gave them, I dont understand why you're upset about it though :)

If more bullets (with less damage) is better for you then thats what you should get ?

You will need to reload with either gun if you are fighting more than 1 opponent in the real world.

1 Gun does more damage with less bullets, other does same damage with more bullets.

Its a matter of whether you prefer margin of error or not.

I dont go toe to toe with someone as an Infil and I only use SMG as an Infil so the higher damage suits me best, sorry of this is in disagreement with your method of play ;)

[JesNC]

So... Eridani > Sirius because you're bad at controlling recoil or whatever "issues" means? How exactly does that not make the Sirius overall a superior weapon?

I'm sorry, but how exactly can you make this comparison when the Sirius has double the base magazine capacity of the Eridani? Killing people before you have to reload > All?

I'm not trying to be a smartass or pick on anybody. It's just I don't understand how any kind of discussion or weapon comparison can be made when people keep bringing up their personal preferences or making comparisons that don't line up at all.

Deciding on the 'best weapon' simply isn't a scientific process, it's just not objective at all. There are a dozen things to be accounted for such as aiming skill/preferences (I usually ADS even with the SMG), preferred role and intended role of the weapon, preferred engagement distance etc. The final decision is a blend of all these things and is going to vary wildly from player to player.

Now, if you want a semi-objective view on the weapons you take all those individual opinions and average over them - and you will probably get a 50-50 old-new score for the SMGs.

Additionally:

- low damage weapons: sh*t at any range outside of point blank. No use trying to peak-a-boo to get a short burst off, you'll just tickle the other guy. Higher theoretical dps doesn't mean squat when you cannot apply it.
At least that's my opinion - but I'm spoiled by NC weapons. I usually won't touch a gun doing <167 bullet damage ;)

- faster reload vs ammo capacity: I'd rather be able to reload fast between every engagement than fighting through 2 and being a sitting duck until the 3rd ^^

[Ghoest9]

NC/VS SMG does same damage as the new TR one but fire 45rof faster.

You wont be using 50 rounds in a 1v1 engagement so no the TR didnt get the better SMG

Umm pretty much the entire point of larg capacity guns is that you have enough ammo to kill a second guy(or even a 3rd)before reloading.

As mostly a solo player i often find that being able to kill a second guy who shows up is important.

[Ghoest9]

For NC if you generally ADS I think the Cyclone with a clip ois slightly better.

If you mostly hipshot the Blitz with a advanced laser should be slightly better.

But really they are very similar in use.

[Rasui]

Sorry dude, you asked for our opinions, we gave them, I dont understand why you're upset about it though :)

If more bullets (with less damage) is better for you then thats what you should get ?

You will need to reload with either gun if you are fighting more than 1 opponent in the real world.

1 Gun does more damage with less bullets, other does same damage with more bullets.

Its a matter of whether you prefer margin of error or not.

I dont go toe to toe with someone as an Infil and I only use SMG as an Infil so the higher damage suits me best, sorry of this is in disagreement with your method of play ;)
To answer your question as to why I'm upset. It's because arguments like these are so half baked that if the arguer were to think about them from a logical standpoint for but a moment they would never be made. Let me show you.



If more bullets (with less damage) is better for you then thats what you should get ?
The Eridani does 143 damage per-bullet or 7 body shots or 3.5 (4) headshots to kill.

The Sirius does 125 damage per-bullet or 8 body shots or 4 headshots to kill.



You will need to reload with either gun if you are fighting more than 1 opponent in the real world.
Having 50 bullets instead of 25 (35) I think the average player can take down two people before they have to reload. Though perhaps I have too much faith?


1 Gun does more damage with less bullets, other does same damage with more bullets. The Sirius takes one more bullet to the chest to kill and the same number to the head while firing faster and having a larger magazine. Further, if you want to look at it as a matter of pure damage. The Sirius does 6250 damage per-magazine while the Eridani does 5005.


Its a matter of whether you prefer margin of error or not. What margin of error exactly? Because I believe it's always prudent to have the margin for error. In this case I believe that would be having more bullets in the mag.


I dont go toe to toe with someone as an Infil and I only use SMG as an Infil so the higher damage suits me best, sorry of this is in disagreement with your method of play ;) Ignoring that you often don't have much say in how you fight your opponents. The higher damage you keep mentioning doesn't actually exist in this case. Hence, my "Method of play" is irrelevant. Especially in a discussion about two close range only weapons.

[Koadster]

^^ This post says very well why the new SMGS are better then the old ones.. Which is to be expected, 2nd batch of guns is always better from SOE.

[Rasui]

^^ This post says very well why the new SMGS are better then the old ones.. Which is to be expected, 2nd batch of guns is always better from SOE.

What really skews it, at least in the case of the VS SMG's, is the ammo difference. Their damage and accuracy is almost identical. Yet the newer SMG has a much larger mag and ammo pool. Which is further compounded by not having to use your rail slot for an extended mag.

[ShadetheDruid]

Your arguments are based purely on stats and filled with contempt for people you assume are less skilled than you, and you expect people to accept them?

It's irrelevent that you think a weapon is better based on the stats if my experience is that I do better with X weapon than I do Y.

[Assist]

I like the new VS SMG, used it the bit I played my VS yesterday.
One thing I noticed, and maybe it's just me, is that when you use jetpacks the SMG's tend to hitch around like crazy compared to the other guns. The firing while jetpacking is the same as the other guns from what I can tell, generally terrible, but the gun seems to jerk around a lot more which is somewhat distracting(picky i know)
What really skews it, at least in the case of the VS SMG's, is the ammo difference. Their damage and accuracy is almost identical. Yet the newer SMG has a much larger mag and ammo pool. Which is further compounded by not having to use your rail slot for an extended mag.

This is what I thought about it as well. The new VS SMG magazine size is too good to pass up. It fires faster, holds more rounds, has a larger magazine size, and the damage doesn't seem to be that much worse if it is any worse at all. I generally prefer the slower firing heavy hitting weapons(I use Flare rather than Orion) but not with these SMG's.

[Ghoest9]

If you are a LA who regularly uses the JJ in combat then you should be using a CQC carbine or a shotgun.

They are simply more JJ friendly.

I like the SMG on my inf and sometimes my medic and sometimes my engineer.

[Rasui]

This is what I thought about it as well. The new VS SMG magazine size is too good to pass up. It fires faster, holds more rounds, has a larger magazine size, and the damage doesn't seem to be that much worse if it is any worse at all. I generally prefer the slower firing heavy hitting weapons(I use Flare rather than Orion) but not with these SMG's.

Same, I'm just bitter I sunk the SC/Certs into the Eridani and now it's useless not a week later.


Your arguments are based purely on stats and filled with contempt for people you assume are less skilled than you, and you expect people to accept them?

It's irrelevent that you think a weapon is better based on the stats if my experience is that I do better with X weapon than I do Y.

I'm sorry, did you just say that we shouldn't discuss a weapons merits based on its stats? You're right, we should do it based on our own personal anecdotes. Or better yet e-psychic skills! Though I'm afraid you're WAY ahead of me on that one. I've not yet mastered the ability to read peoples emotions like you. Let alone their minds to divine which weapon is best for them. /sarcasm


Okay I'm done now. Sorry if you read this Hamma :love:

[Satanam]

I didn't even check it, but what about accuracy and reload speed? Is there any difference between them? I don't play with SMG because I don't like this kind of light weapons, I'm always holding my Mini-chaingun (or, not so often, T9 Carv when I need the HS/NV optic).
But anyway, I do appreciate games with many different weapons. I'd say it would be at least fair for both SMG users if the SMG with less bullets had faster reload speed and a bit more accuracy, maybe.

[Rasui]

I didn't even check it, but what about accuracy and reload speed? Is there any difference between them? I don't play with SMG because I don't like this kind of light weapons, I'm always holding my Mini-chaingun (or, not so often, T9 Carv when I need the HS/NV optic).
But anyway, I do appreciate games with many different weapons. I'd say it would be at least fair for both SMG users if the SMG with less bullets had faster reload speed and a bit more accuracy, maybe.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AuOojvNLMApVdEtIU1NKenEzNzZOSWNaanFqSUVxLW c&type=view&gid=12&f=true&colid0=17&filterstr0=SMG&sortcolid=16&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

The problem for the VS is it's pretty much a straight upgrade. For those of us who bought the first SMG and sunk points into it that's really upsetting.

[Assist]

If you are a LA who regularly uses the JJ in combat then you should be using a CQC carbine or a shotgun.

They are simply more JJ friendly.

I like the SMG on my inf and sometimes my medic and sometimes my engineer.

Oh I do, I have 3500 kills with the auto-shotty. But the range, mag size, fire rate, accuracy, and reload speed I feel is too good when compared to the Carbines for a LA. I'll always use a shotgun in CQC, but I do prefer the new SMG in Bio Labs as a LA now for the rooftops.
Really it comes down to Magazine size for me. 50 compared to a 30 round Carbine ? :| same firerate as the Serpent, but I have 20 more rounds to land 1 hit for equivilent kill damage.

[Calisai]

Same, I'm just bitter I sunk the SC/Certs into the Eridani and now it's useless not a week later

The Eridani does 143 damage per-bullet or 7 body shots or 3.5 (4) headshots to kill.

The Sirius does 125 damage per-bullet or 8 body shots or 4 headshots to kill.

Drama much? It's hardly useless. The difference in stats is the equivalent of 1 body shot (not even a headshot). With the extremely low TTK, this isn't like comparing a sniper rifle to a carbine or something.

I guess if you're a min/max type person... I could see being upset, but in reality... both weapons will kill plenty of people.

[Rasui]

Drama much? It's hardly useless. The difference in stats is the equivalent of 1 body shot (not even a headshot). With the extremely low TTK, this isn't like comparing a sniper rifle to a carbine or something.

I guess if you're a min/max type person... I could see being upset, but in reality... both weapons will kill plenty of people.

Just looking at the damage is too simplistic and not the problem. I'm not going to outline why because I've said it up and down this thread. The bottom line is that the Sirius is so significantly better that no serious player should use anything else. Please refrain from cherry picking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking_%28fallacy%29) my stats in the future, thanks.

[Mastodon]

Just looking at the damage is too simplistic and not the problem. I'm not going to outline why because I've said it up and down this thread. The bottom line is that the Sirius is so significantly better that no serious player should use anything else. Please refrain from cherry picking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking_%28fallacy%29) my stats in the future, thanks.

You're so fucking hardcore! Please, teach us all how to play at your level.

[TGxCraig]

I don't tbh, at least not for NC. You get a 23% increased RoF at the expense of a 25% reduced bullet damage (and I rather take damage over RoF) and you lose out on a bit of projectile velocity, just for an increase in ammo capacity - when the classes that get the most use out of the SMGs have enough opportunities to dodge out of a fight to reload.

I am happy that I bought the Cyclone and I don't think I'll buy the other one ever.

On my TR char on the other hand I might get the new PDW.

Huh... I feel like the NC got a legit new upgrade with the new SMG but the TR one is too similar to their previous SMG.

[Sifer2]

Seems to me like the new one's are better simply because the higher mag sizes make extended mag unnecessary so you can instead use adv. laser for much better accuracy. Especially since the entire point of these weapons is for hip fire.For VS/NC it's a no brainer to go for the new one's. TR actually has to make a hard choice of good damage low mag or high mag crap damage.

[TGxCraig]

Seems to me like the new one's are better simply because the higher mag sizes make extended mag unnecessary so you can instead use adv. laser for much better accuracy. Especially since the entire point of these weapons is for hip fire.For VS/NC it's a no brainer to go for the new one's. TR actually has to make a hard choice of good damage low mag or high mag crap damage.

I agree. The NC and VS SMGs stand out more from the other guns in their factions, NC especially.

[zulu]

TR actually has to make a hard choice of good damage low mag or high mag crap damage.

According to this (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AuOojvNLMApVdEtIU1NKenEzNzZOSWNaanFqSUVxLW c&type=view&gid=12&f=true&colid0=17&filterstr0=SMG&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250) spreadsheet, both do same amount of damage. The differences between them are pretty slim aside from the increased magazine and ammo pool for the Hailstorm: Slightly greater recoil and (surprisingly) a slightly shorter reload time. The biggest difference is the 96 RPM difference, but I don't find that to be an extreme difference -- about 15 bullets per second versus about 13.

In practice, I find the Hailstorm to be pretty much a straight upgrade, though I admit that I only gave the Armistice a trial run when it came out. The Hailstorm is sweet, and it has enough ammo capacity to go through three or more targets before needing to reload if you're very close and accurate.

The extra two bullets each second might well be worth it to some people, but I think it depends on play style.

[JesNC]

Huh... I feel like the NC got a legit new upgrade with the new SMG but the TR one is too similar to their previous SMG.

As I said in a different reply, I usually don't like weapons with low bullet damage. RoF and mag capacity are the only superior stats of the new SMG (well, recoil too, but it's negligible), and while RoF is counterbalanced by lower damage/shot, the mag capacity just doesn't make up for it IMO.

The new TR SMG on the other hand doesn't suffer from reduced damage/shot and trades a huge increase in ammo for a miniscule amount of RoF.


They're both sidegrades, not upgrades tbh.

[TGxCraig]

They're both sidegrades, not upgrades tbh.

Yea, SOE did a good job of balancing them.

[Koadster]

One thing you do have to praise SOE on is the weapon design stats wise, where by weapons such as SMGs arent clear cut better. They are sidegrades and tailor to peoples playstyles.

Just finished my trailing of both TR smgs on 2 TR guys (so 1 hour worth of trailing on each gun).. I gotta say I hate both of them, they suck not because of design. But because of my playstyle which is a accurate mid-range player (NS11, TMG50, T5AMC) So I always felt disadvantaged at 40+meter engagements. The 60 round mag was nice for the 2nd smg but the SMGs are a very niche weapon. For infils who wanna do cqc im sure they'll be great or a really aggressive LA. But not for me, certainly not 700smedbucks worth

[Badjuju]

NC/VS SMG does same damage as the new TR one but fire 45rof faster.

You wont be using 50 rounds in a 1v1 engagement so no the TR didnt get the better SMG

More times than not in CQC engagements you will be facing more than one enemy, and you often do not have the luxury being able safely duck behind cover and reload on a whim (with out having to relocate). The longer you can sustain fire with out having to reload in close quarter combat the better off you are. A big advantage of many TR weapons is that you can take down more enemies with one clip than the other factions.