Bunny Hopping

[Wahooo]

I hate it. I always have in every shooter.

One of those things that bothers me to an irrational point. I feel justified in hating it... but my hate for it is to an unreasonable level. Just needed to get it off my chest.

[Rothnang]

Agree with you completely.

Jumping should seriously fuck up your aim for a short time after, it's not something you should do in the middle of a fight to take less damage.

[Sturmhardt]

Do you feel bad because there are players out there who can move and jump around and still keep their aim on you while you can't? it's called skill, I don't see why skill should be punished. There already is a huge loss in accuracy if you jump.

.sent via phone.

[Tatwi]

It's called, really obnoxious to look at for some inexplicable reason.

And for those who wish to split hairs that it's not "bunny hopping", you clearly have never wounded a rabbit with a 22 caliber rifle.

[psijaka]

I've not noticed widespread bunnyhopping in PS2, but I would agree that is irritating and unrealistic. Not a big problem though, and it would be difficult to intorduce a mechanic to prevent it without impacting upon more useful uses of "space".

[luvthesnapper]

I know. I've also witnessed rampant jetpacking by light assualts, to gain an advantage...

[typhaon]

They way to fix it is simple.

Just make it so you can't shoot for about 0.5 after jumping...

* doesn't impact navigating terrain.
* still leaves jumping as a means to dodge fire and get to a safe spot to fight back.

... but, it doesn't let you become the jumping, shooting gun-ninja.

[Gatekeeper]

Agree completely with the OP, it drives me absolutely nuts.

I don't care whether it requires skill or not, I would love to see it completely removed from the game.

I like typhaon's suggestion of disabling shooting for a short time after jumping, although TBH I'd actually prefer it if bunny-hopping away wasn't even really viable as a defensive play.

I always thought PS1's stamina system was an absolutely perfect deterrent for bunny-hopping, but I guess we're very unlikely to see that return at this stage.

Also: I do think that LA's jump-jetting around to avoid being hit is potentially a problem too - it seems to drive the game a little nuts and leads to some very eccentric movement on the attacker's screen. Not sure what can be done to fix this though.

[ShadetheDruid]

Why is LAs jumpjetting around a problem? Isn't the whole "theme" of LA mobility? Besides, a jumpjetting LA moves a lot less erratically than someone bunny hopping.

[Dougnifico]

Yup. Bunny hoping is stupid. I don't care how much of a gun rabbit you can be, if I get up behind you, you deserve to die. If you get behind me, you earned your kill.

[Gatekeeper]

Why is LAs jumpjetting around a problem? Isn't the whole "theme" of LA mobility? Besides, a jumpjetting LA moves a lot less erratically than someone bunny hopping.

I don't have any objection to it in theory, but in my experience jump-jetting LAs move in an extremely erratic fashion on my client, shifting position suddenly, changing speed wildly, etc. I'm sure this is some kind of networking/movement prediction issue (just like the problems with people rapidly strafing in PS1).

If this code can be fixed somehow, then great. If not, then I'd support some kind of limitation to make this a less viable tactic for LAs, but with some kind of buff to compensate them. I'm certainly not arguing that LAs are too strong, just that this buggy game behaviour is annoying right now.

[Varsam]

Do you feel bad because there are players out there who can move and jump around and still keep their aim on you while you can't? it's called skill, I don't see why skill should be punished. There already is a huge loss in accuracy if you jump.

.sent via phone.

there is absolutely no skill involved in mashing the spacebar repeatedly.

[Rothnang]

Do you feel bad because there are players out there who can move and jump around and still keep their aim on you while you can't? it's called skill, I don't see why skill should be punished. There already is a huge loss in accuracy if you jump.


How is hitting the spacebar a skill? This game is already insanely biased toward short range fighting without giving everyone with a short range weapon a way to mitigate long range fire by an insane amount just by hitting space over and over.

Also there are plenty of weapons that fire slow, so people aren't shooting them while jumping at all. You constantly see heavies hopping around while reloading their rocket launcher. What a crock of shit system.

[ChipMHazard]

Oh come now, everyone loves bunny hoppers!


Darn those bunny hoppers - YouTube

[Sturmhardt]

Yup. Bunny hoping is stupid. I don't care how much of a gun rabbit you can be, if I get up behind you, you deserve to die. If you get behind me, you earned your kill.

Why? It can be pure luck. Finding someone who is looking in another direction in a 2000 player game is not exactly skillful. In many times it's just luck, nothing earned at all.

@rothnang:
Some would say that shooting your opponent (who is moving) exactly in the head while moving and jumping around requires a little bit of skill. A little bit more than is required to kill an unsuspicious, stationary target you happen to find looking in another direction, also known as easy kill.

.sent via phone.

[Varsam]

Why? It can be pure luck. Finding someone who is looking in another direction in a 2000 player game is not exactly skillful. In many times it's just luck, nothing earned at all.

.sent via phone.

because incorporating 'luck' in a competitive, skill-based game makes a victory arbitrary and less meaningful.

@rothnang:
Some would say that shooting your opponent (who is moving) exactly in the head while moving and jumping around requires a little bit of skill. A little bit more than is required to kill an unsuspicious, stationary target you happen to find looking in another direction, also known as easy kill.

harder still is trying to shoot a bunny hopping target exactly in the head without resorting to doing so yourself.

[Sturmhardt]

because incorporating 'luck' in a competitive, skill-based game makes a victory arbitrary and less meaningful.

Exactly my point. Luck is an unsatisfying concept in computer games.You don't feel like some guy beat you if you get shot without the possibility to react, you feel like it was bad luck or just a shitty game. Still, if you happen to be lucky and find a guy in ps2 who happens to look in another direction, this is usually what happens due to the low ttk.

.sent via phone.

[Aurmanite]

If people are using this:
http://www.wpclipart.com/computer/keyboard_keys/large_keys/computer_key_Space_bar.png

Just use this:
http://www.whatthetech.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/mouse.jpg

This game punishes you a lot for jumping.

Aim better.

Or come whine about it on the forums...

[Varsam]

Exactly my point. Luck is an unsatisfying concept in computer games.You don't feel like some guy beat you if you get shot without the possibility to react, you feel like it was bad luck or just a shitty game. Still, if you happen to be lucky and find a guy in ps2 who happens to look in another direction, this is usually what happens due to the low ttk.

.sent via phone.

Then why endorse bunny hopping? The advantage it gives against non-bunny hopping players is disproportionately high compared to the relative ease of execution.

Unless you'd prefer bunny hopping to become the new metagame, in which case I should refer you to Tribes.

This game punishes you a lot for jumping.

It really doesn't, especially considering the inclusion of shotguns and laser sights.

[Sturmhardt]

Then why endorse bunny hopping? The advantage it gives against non-bunny hopping players is disproportionately high compared to the relative ease of execution.

Unless you'd prefer bunny hopping to become the new metagame, in which case I should refer you to Tribes.

Bunny hoping is the opposite of luck, it is player controlled. Everybody can do it. If you loose to a guy hopping around you, maybe he is better.

If it's that easy and that effective to bunny hop as you say, why don't you do it too as soon as you meet someone hopping around? Sounds like it would be so easy to kill them by doing it.
Hint: it requires skill. And people don't like skill in today's shooters, because they can loose to skillful players, and loosing is not fun, right? ;)

P.s. you are using the word meta wrong.

.sent via phone.

[Thingamyjib]

While I don't think bunny hopping is a big problem I still don't like it as a game mechanic. For those who argue that bunny hopping is a skillful mechanic: Your accuracy goes to the wind when you bunny hop, so whether or not you hit your target while bunny hopping is mostly luck. Skill based mechanics should require skill from the person using said mechanic, the only person bunny hopping requires skill from is the person trying to counter it.

Perhaps this could be fixed simply by having a considerable accuracy decrease for 0.5 - 1 secs and a movement speed modifier for 1 - 1.5 secs after you hit the ground. So when you hit the ground you would be very slow and very inaccurate for a short period. This way it would have very little effect on the Light Assault who remains in the air while shooting yet still discourage bunny hopping.

EDIT: Oh, yes. Also the inabblitiy to jump again for 1 - 2 secs after you hit the ground.

[BlaxicanX]

LA's are fine the way they are. Just shoot them, the jetpack doesn't move nearly fast enough to make them a hard target if you've got a steady grip with your mouse, and chances are if they're fighting you in close enough range that using their jetpack disorients you, they're probably even more disoriented themselves. I main LA on my NC account, jetpacking around when someone's already got a bead on you is pretty futile most of the time.

[Mietz]

> Bunnyhopping is unrealistic
> Game has jetpacks and flying tanks

[Larington]

As far as *I'm* concerned, you shouldn't be allowed to jump again for a full second and a half after landing.

I mean, FFS, if that's how you like to play maybe you should just buy yourself a skipping rope and go play with yourself in the yard all day.

I cannot stand this exploiting of flawed game mechanics to gain an extra advantage, if you're so 'skilled' then YOU DON'T NEED IT, I despise it in the same way I despise the use of *anti-vehicle* rocket pods to farm near-effortless infantry kills (I have begrudging respect for the pilots who kill troops with the nose gun).

[HiroshiChugi]

I main LA on my NC account, jetpacking around when someone's already got a bead on you is pretty futile most of the time.

I do as well and agree with you 100%. Especially if you don't jump THEN use your jet pack...lol...

[Figment]

You know, there used to be this shooter game where if you jumped, you lost 10% of a stamina bar and where if you ran out of stamina, you could not run anymore and would become a stationary easy target with poor CoF due to the heavy breathing while your character regained breath (back up at 20% stamina). Meanwhile, if you jumped, your accuracy would be momentarily completely off, so you really had to plan your jumps and don't jump during firefights to keep your accuracy high.


Anyone recall what game that was?


It's at the tip of my tongue.


Come on guys, I know some of you know off it.

[HiroshiChugi]

You know, there used to be this shooter game where if you jumped, you lost 10% of a stamina bar and where if you ran out of stamina, you could not run anymore and would become a stationary easy target with poor CoF due to the heavy breathing while your character regained breath (back up at 20% stamina). Meanwhile, if you jumped, your accuracy would be momentarily completely off, so you really had to plan your jumps and don't jump during firefights to keep your accuracy high.


Anyone recall what game that was?


It's at the tip of my tongue.


Come on guys, I know some of you know off it.

I know what game you're talking about, but I can't remember the name of it... Wasn't it a PC AND console game?

[ShadetheDruid]

Stamina would be a terrible idea, unless you wanted to make all the maps completely flat. Let's not cripple terrain traversal in an attempt to stop people doing stupid things.

[Gatekeeper]

Stamina would be a terrible idea, unless you wanted to make all the maps completely flat. Let's not cripple terrain traversal in an attempt to stop people doing stupid things.

Meh, it worked fine in PS1, so I don't see what the problem would have been with including it in PS2 - but frankly that ship has sailed, so let's not worry about it.

Back on-topic, I'd very much agree with all of the below:

While I don't think bunny hopping is a big problem I still don't like it as a game mechanic. For those who argue that bunny hopping is a skillful mechanic: Your accuracy goes to the wind when you bunny hop, so whether or not you hit your target while bunny hopping is mostly luck. Skill based mechanics should require skill from the person using said mechanic, the only person bunny hopping requires skill from is the person trying to counter it.

Perhaps this could be fixed simply by having a considerable accuracy decrease for 0.5 - 1 secs and a movement speed modifier for 1 - 1.5 secs after you hit the ground. So when you hit the ground you would be very slow and very inaccurate for a short period. This way it would have very little effect on the Light Assault who remains in the air while shooting yet still discourage bunny hopping.

EDIT: Oh, yes. Also the inabblitiy to jump again for 1 - 2 secs after you hit the ground.

[Figment]

Stamina would be a terrible idea, unless you wanted to make all the maps completely flat. Let's not cripple terrain traversal in an attempt to stop people doing stupid things.

How often do you have to jump ten times in a row without any normal walks in between and all the while firing?

[Thunderhawk]

I know what game you're talking about, but I can't remember the name of it... Wasn't it a PC AND console game?

He's sarcastically talking about Planetside 1.....

Sorry I wasn't going to reply as I thought it would be inferred by all but you seem to actually think its another game.

[Figment]

He's sarcastically talking about Planetside 1.....

Sorry I wasn't going to reply as I thought it would be inferred by all but you seem to actually think its another game.

Sssh. Let the man think! :p

[bpostal]

... it's called skill...

I'm going to disagree with you and say "No. No it is not."

[Graywolves]

If you jump too rapidly you actually move slower.

Only time I'm really bothered by other people jumping is light assaults flying around with a shotty. But that's happened only a few times to me.

I actually bunny hop all the time. I was against it in beta but I like having something else to do with my hands than turn while holding W. It's also allowed me to do some fun things and escape certain scenarios. It doesn't always save me though.

There's only a handful of other people I've seen do it personally so I don't think it's a real problem. Although I recently started pouncing on people in Connery so we'll see how the meta evolves.

[Wahooo]

As I said I have an unreasonable amount of hate for it. I know it isn't that big a deal... but I don't like it and can't explain why.

There are plenty of games it is simply part of the mechanic and expected, like APB and Quake/Unreal I did it there, hell in Quake the bots jumped around. But in all the "modern" ADS type games... it just bothers me.

If I were to be able to design a shooter anytime you fired while jumping the game would auto-aim a shot to the nearest friendlies head, then when you land you'd shoot yourself in the foot.

LA's jetting around doesn't really bother me much, they do have limited jet power and the jet pack is slow. But the quick TTK and some of the weapons heavies and medics hopping around spraying all over... just bothers me.
I'd like to see the hitbox go all the way to the ground when people are jumping.

[Bags]

Most shooters don't have bunnyhopping. Do you really accelerate in PS2 while mashing the spacebar? I don't think so.

[MrBloodworth]

Only time I'm really bothered by other people jumping is light assaults flying around with a shotty.

Isn't that like, what they are supposed to do? Other than getting to places others can't, they are the mobility class and rule the Z axis.

Side note: its funny how many people do not look up, including myself :)

[Assist]

As I said I have an unreasonable amount of hate for it. I know it isn't that big a deal... but I don't like it and can't explain why.

There are plenty of games it is simply part of the mechanic and expected, like APB and Quake/Unreal I did it there, hell in Quake the bots jumped around. But in all the "modern" ADS type games... it just bothers me.

If I were to be able to design a shooter anytime you fired while jumping the game would auto-aim a shot to the nearest friendlies head, then when you land you'd shoot yourself in the foot.

LA's jetting around doesn't really bother me much, they do have limited jet power and the jet pack is slow. But the quick TTK and some of the weapons heavies and medics hopping around spraying all over... just bothers me.
I'd like to see the hitbox go all the way to the ground when people are jumping.
Quake, UT, and Tribes are different, as it was a major part of the game. Tribes with skiing and Quake with strafe-jumping.

However, I don't see a problem with anyone jumping in this game. It just makes them an easier target and the only benefit to doing it yourself is if the player shooting you is bad at the game. Solid players generally aim for the head, or the neck and if their target jumps they're still hitting center mass but they lose all momentum to dodge. If you're trying to avoid being hit you'll do a lot better randomly running in circles like a squirrel than jumping around like a bunny.

[Graywolves]

Isn't that like, what they are supposed to do? Other than getting to places others can't, they are the mobility class and rule the Z axis.

Side note: its funny how many people do not look up, including myself :)

Definitely part of their role. Still annoying.

-edit-
and yeah even as a medic or HA I've made it to some perches where I farmed infantry below me for a long time. They never looked up.

[Rothnang]

People seem to be missing a key piece of the problem here:

Bunny Hopping/Jet Packing throws off hit detection in this game. It's not just that you need to aim a little better, it's that shots that are well aimed miss regardless.

[MrBloodworth]

People seem to be missing a key piece of the problem here:

Bunny Hopping/Jet Packing throws off hit detection in this game. It's not just that you need to aim a little better, it's that shots that are well aimed miss regardless.

No, I think it just throws off people.

[Rothnang]

I've shot people point blank who were flying up with a jetpack and hit nothing but air. I'm pretty sure there is a problem with hit detection.

[Ruffdog]

Jumping around in close quarters combat is like wearing shades playing poker. You've already admitted you're a weakling.

Limit jumping in a set time period like Q spotting is now limited. Maybe 4 or 5 jumps and then you get that "denied-style beep".

[Graywolves]

I'm pretty sure there is a problem with hit detection.

Yeah. When I'm not jumping over or on top of people I'm AD stafing.

[Varsam]

Bunny hoping is the opposite of luck, it is player controlled. Everybody can do it. If you loose to a guy hopping around you, maybe he is better.

Bunny hopping is skillful in the same way that explosives spamming is skillful. The amount of skill required to successfully accomplish it is *usually* minimal compared to the associated gain. You consider being able to aim while bunny hopping skillful. I do not. I don't see it as particularly difficult to do.

If it's that easy and that effective to bunny hop as you say, why don't you do it too as soon as you meet someone hopping around? Sounds like it would be so easy to kill them by doing it.
Hint: it requires skill. And people don't like skill in today's shooters, because they can loose to skillful players, and loosing is not fun, right? ;)

I do, especially with shotguns at point blank range. It gives a clear advantage in the scenario. And no, I don't find it particularly skillful.

P.s. you are using the word meta wrong.

You have a very narrow interpretation of the meaning of meta.

Most shooters don't have bunnyhopping. Do you really accelerate in PS2 while mashing the spacebar? I don't think so.

The term bunnyhopping in gamer culture doesn't mean the same thing it did a decade ago.

[Crator]

Might have been mentioned already... Why not just implement stamina depletion when jumping? Jump too much and all stamina is depleted and you can't jump until it replenish itself? Tie this stamina into the special abilities stamina. So if you jump too much you can't use your special ability until it replenishes.

[Phreec]

This game doesn't even have bunny hopping, just mindless jump spamming.

Avoiding incoming fire and making it harder for the enemy to predict your movement is a legit strategy in my books. It's not like it's hard to move your mouse vertically, just saying...

[Ghoest9]

This game doesn't even have bunny hopping, just mindless jump spamming.

Avoiding incoming fire and making it harder for the enemy to predict your movement is a legit strategy in my books. It's not like it's hard to move your mouse vertically, just saying...


Look another boring post arguing the sematics of 'bunny hopping."

We all know what some people do in this game. They jump around when people shoot at them hoping that the enemy will have a hard time hitting them - and often it works(partly due to lag.

Many people call it 'bunny hopping" - deal with it - no one is confused on what they mean here.

[typhaon]

Bunny hoping is the opposite of luck, it is player controlled. Everybody can do it. If you loose to a guy hopping around you, maybe he is better.

If it's that easy and that effective to bunny hop as you say, why don't you do it too as soon as you meet someone hopping around? Sounds like it would be so easy to kill them by doing it.
Hint: it requires skill. And people don't like skill in today's shooters, because they can loose to skillful players, and loosing is not fun, right? ;)

P.s. you are using the word meta wrong.

.sent via phone.

No doubt they are better at something... that's not really the issue... the issue is does that something belong in the game?

[TGxCraig]

I too hate it, a lot.

I know it is effective, just as the zerg tactic is, but I hate them both. If they were taken out of the game, it would be so much better. It is cheap and is stupid to look at. I know the game is not a simulator, but it, like all shooters, take steps to add levels of reality to them. The prevention/removal of bunny hopping should be one of those levels.

[Sunrock]

Compared to allot of other FPS games you do no move faster when jumping in PS2 so...

[Mordelicius]

There needs to be severe accuracy penalties for bunnyhopping and LA air pogo

It screws up the shooters hit detection and accuracy.

The biggest offenders are the LA class. Almost every single one does it. They just blast upward then point downward and hold left mouse button.

Either fix the hit detection/registration while jumping/jetpacking or

give an disorientation, loss of balance/equilibrium penalty that lowers accuracy and make bullets spread all over.

The longer the players does it, the more severe the penalties are:

- slowed down reflex as the body tries to regain posture or balance
- harder to aim with accuracy penalties.

[Sturmhardt]

So many whiney children... you can't even rationalize it... "I hate it" is not really a strong argument.

.sent via phone.

[Figment]

So many whiney children... you can't even rationalize it... "I hate it" is not really a strong argument.

Ehrm, that's not the argumentation used. That's the consequence. The reason they give is that they feel it's unnatural behaviour, isn't actually a very skilled thing to do as argued by some (because it is just button spam and requires more leading skill from the opponent) and therefore not suited for the game.

The hopper induces the need to lead in a vertical direction. However, there are no severe downsides for the hopper, which is what is requested: if they make leading harder for others, why shouldn't they need to use much better aim while hopping?

What more argumentation do you need?

I'm sorry, but it's just as "whiny" in the sense of argumentation level to state "it's fine, deal with it".

[Spazmodian]

Kick the player out of aiming whenever they jump. Hip firing while jumping is worthless. Aiming with certain optics allows for you to still aim while jumping and if you are simply kicked back to hip fire when you jump then it eliminates a fundamental flaw of the current system. If you want to take it a bit further force the animation coming out of aiming before starting the jump as well.

[Sir B Smythe]

Bunny hopping is a loads of bollocks! Makes me laugh my head off seeing troops trying to 'skillfully' bunny hop their way out of a Mag VPC round :D It ain't gonna happen, feckin noobs!

[Sturmhardt]

Ehrm, that's not the argumentation used. That's the consequence. The reason they give is that they feel it's unnatural behaviour, isn't actually a very skilled thing to do as argued by some (because it is just button spam and requires more leading skill from the opponent) and therefore not suited for the game.

The hopper induces the need to lead in a vertical direction. However, there are no severe downsides for the hopper, which is what is requested: if they make leading harder for others, why shouldn't they need to use much better aim while hopping?

What more argumentation do you need?

I'm sorry, but it's just as "whiny" in the sense of argumentation level to state "it's fine, deal with it".

None of these arguments are real.

Let me get this straight:

1. You say there are no severe downsides for the hopper. Have you actually tried doing it? I tried it with assault rifles and carbines with and without numerous attachments and the punishment to accuracy from the hip is huge, you can't hit shit after a few meters. If you ADS you can't even see while jumping because your scope is wobbling around like crazy. How is this "no severe downsides"? That might be the case for shotguns (which I have not tried and can't comment on) or specific scopes but then the topic should be about shotguns and hopping or specific scopes and hopping, not jumping around in general. Conclusion: severe downsides already in place in most cases. I don't know the loopholes though.

2. You say that the guy who is jumping around has to use LESS skill to hit his target than the guy who is standing still? That doesn't make sense. If you aimed for the upper center mass of a jumping person it shouldn't really matter that much except you don't make headshots, but the hopper has the same problem, his crosshair is moving vertically too.

3. If it DID give an advantage to the guy hopping (I think it does only in situations where he doesn't shoot, like reloading etc), it wouldn't be a problem too, since everyone can do it. Just like strafing, sprinting and taking cover. It gives you an edge in certain situations but everybody is free to do it. It can't be OP by definition, out otherwise strafing and taking cover will be considered OP too.

So where are the arguments? I still only see the "I hate it, I want it gone" argument. Which is not valid.

.sent via phone.

[Figment]

Everyone can pull tanks in theory. In practice, there exist many occassions where there's a huge off-set in tank numbers and survivability. Everyone can do it is not an argument.


That's a problem, not a fix. "Everyone can do it, so it's fair" is not an argument, "everyone can do it" is an indication of the numerical potential.

That's not an argument, in fact, it just indicates how lame it can become if it provides an advantage of sorts.

[Sturmhardt]

Everyone can pull tanks in theory. In practice, there exist many occassions where there's a huge off-set in tank numbers and survivability. Everyone can do it is not an argument.


That's a problem, not a fix. "Everyone can do it, so it's fair" is not an argument, "everyone can do it" is an indication of the numerical potential.

That's not an argument, in fact, it just indicates how lame it can become if it provides an advantage of sorts.

I think your analogy to tanks doesn't make sense. Where are the arguments (real, not imaginary) against bunny hopping? See post above, I had more points.

Note: I don't bunny hop in ps2 because the punishment to aim is too severe and it makes aiming harder, so I'm not a "bunny hopper". I just can't understand why you guys think it's such a crazy advantage if a guy jumps repeatedly.

.sent via phone.

[Figment]

I think your analogy to tanks doesn't make sense.

Of course it does, you say "everyone can do it". Virtually everyone in PS1 could Orbital Strike at some point. Does that make it more balanced, or less?

Note: I don't bunny hop in ps2 because the punishment to aim is too severe and it makes aiming harder, so I'm not a "bunny hopper". I just can't understand why you guys think it's such a crazy advantage if a guy jumps repeatedly.

Tbh, I jump(jet) a lot to throw off people's aim when using LA and it hardly affects ADS fire. Does it help? Depends who you're fighting and at what range, can help, just like zigzagging. So though I don't bunnyhop, I do now and then move erratically to throw of people's aim while closing on a target and getting in optimal range. I do see a lot of infils bunnyhop around people though.

I think most primarily think it's utterly stupid and therefore annoying behaviour. Not stupid from a "capacity to dodge bullets" point of view (I mean if it helps as some sort of exploit, intended or not, it's a "smart" thing to do as long as the game allows it), but from a semi-realistic point of view. It doesn't need much more argumentation.

Can you imagine Normandy with bunnyhopping troops landing on the shores? Does that enhance the immersion?

Besides, it doesn't matter how many points you have, it's how heavy they weigh. To many people, your arguments are probably weightless in comparison. >.>

[Ghoest9]

So many whiney children... you can't even rationalize it... "I hate it" is not really a strong argument.

.sent via phone.

Actually that is far and away the strongest argument you can make for a change in a video game.

[Aurmanite]

Of course it does, you say "everyone can do it". Virtually everyone in PS1 could Orbital Strike at some point. Does that make it more balanced, or less?



Tbh, I jump(jet) a lot to throw off people's aim when using LA and it hardly affects ADS fire. Does it help? Depends who you're fighting and at what range, can help, just like zigzagging. So though I don't bunnyhop, I do now and then move erratically to throw of people's aim while closing on a target and getting in optimal range. I do see a lot of infils bunnyhop around people though.

I think most primarily think it's utterly stupid and therefore annoying behaviour. Not stupid from a "capacity to dodge bullets" point of view (I mean if it helps as some sort of exploit, intended or not, it's a "smart" thing to do as long as the game allows it), but from a semi-realistic point of view. It doesn't need much more argumentation.

Can you imagine Normandy with bunnyhopping troops landing on the shores? Does that enhance the immersion?

Besides, it doesn't matter how many points you have, it's how heavy they weigh. To many people, your arguments are probably weightless in comparison. >.>

You're just speaking nonsense now Figment.

"Stupid"
"Annoying"
"Not realistic"
"Imagine Normandy"
"Immersion"

These don't counter any of the points Sturmhardt made. In fact, you're proving his conclusion that there are no valid arguments against 'bunnyhopping'.

When World of Warcraft was brand new people used to say the same thing about circle strafing and moving during PvP/duel, that moving was stupid, annoying, lacked skill, took away from the immersion of the fight. Over the course of time however, everyone learned that foot work and positioning were huge parts of the game.

Being able to aim is important. Being able to disrupt people aiming at you is important. Players are penalized when they jump. The benefit people who jump frequently is not significant.

All you have to do is aim. Use your mouse.

[Figment]

Taking things out of context is a skill too, isn't it Aurmanite?

[Aurmanite]

Taking things out of context is a skill too, isn't it Aurmanite?

They're your words, man.

Normandy...surely that is contextual when talking about bunnyhopping. Amirite?

I apologize if my post seemed to attack you. That was not my intent. Your post is a great example of how the arguments against 'bunnyhopping' in Planetside have no real teeth.

[belch]

Oh God, this argument again.

At least the OP admits it's an unreasonable hatred that he has for it. Even funnier is how people present one button press as skill-less, and another as skillful. As if jumping in game, repeatedly or otherwise, is some humongous advantage.

Finally, it is completely ridiculous to mention actual combat as relevant to a video game...as if any one mentioning such has ever participated in real life combat and has a clue what they're talking about. Or that there is some parallel to the types of skills and luck (yeah, I said it) it takes to survive an amphibious assault against a prepared position, and playing Planetside 2.

[Phreec]

Look another boring post arguing the sematics of 'bunny hopping."

We all know what some people do in this game. They jump around when people shoot at them hoping that the enemy will have a hard time hitting them - and often it works(partly due to lag.

Many people call it 'bunny hopping" - deal with it - no one is confused on what they mean here.It's sad that you find learning boring. :rolleyes:

[elementHTTP]

Such a bullshit thread !
Jumping in CQC situation improves survivability so it can be defined as skill
(how to compensate your aim and synchronize movement to win duel)

[Ghoest9]

It's sad that you find learning boring. :rolleyes:

Learning that some dude gets his panties in a knot when someone uses the word "bunny hop" in to general of a manner?

Yes that is boring.

But its FUNNY that you think thats learning.

[MrBloodworth]

"I hate it" is not really a strong argument.



Sure it is, entire world wars have been started with this argument.

I think you may need to keep in mind, people are not posting to convince you, but the developers. You are not important.

[Varsam]

None of these arguments are real.

We are voicing our opinions. The same as you. The difference is that you are snidely dismissive of ours while simultaneously asserting that yours is fact.

1. You say there are no severe downsides for the hopper. Have you actually tried doing it? I tried it with assault rifles and carbines with and without numerous attachments and the punishment to accuracy from the hip is huge, you can't hit shit after a few meters. If you ADS you can't even see while jumping because your scope is wobbling around like crazy. How is this "no severe downsides"? That might be the case for shotguns (which I have not tried and can't comment on) or specific scopes but then the topic should be about shotguns and hopping or specific scopes and hopping, not jumping around in general. Conclusion: severe downsides already in place in most cases. I don't know the loopholes though.

That's a moot point, the only time you see bunny hopping is in cqc situations.

2. You say that the guy who is jumping around has to use LESS skill to hit his target than the guy who is standing still? That doesn't make sense. If you aimed for the upper center mass of a jumping person it shouldn't really matter that much except you don't make headshots, but the hopper has the same problem, his crosshair is moving vertically too.

It makes perfect sense. The guy bunny hopping can anticipate the vertical movement, because he is the one controlling it. The opposition is forced to react, which means he is penalized for reaction times much more heavily then the attacker. This means the attacker has a huge advantage when compensating for vertical shift.

3. If it DID give an advantage to the guy hopping (I think it does only in situations where he doesn't shoot, like reloading etc), it wouldn't be a problem too, since everyone can do it. Just like strafing, sprinting and taking cover. It gives you an edge in certain situations but everybody is free to do it. It can't be OP by definition, out otherwise strafing and taking cover will be considered OP too.

Please. That argument is utterly ridiculous. You can't claim something is theoretically balanced simply because everyone can do it. That's like claiming an OP weapon is balanced because everyone theoretically has access to it. Just because a certain aspect of the game is freely available to everyone doesn't mean that that aspect doesn't adversely affect the relationships between it and other aspects of the game. This is called "bad game play". Bunny hopping promotes bad game play based on a disproportionate difficulty-to-reward ratio.

You're just speaking nonsense now Figment.

"Stupid"
"Annoying"
"Not realistic"
"Imagine Normandy"
"Immersion"

"World of Warcraft"
"stupid"
"annoying"
"lacked skill"
"immersion"

I can do it too.

You should also add a caveat to your analogy (which pretty much breaks the analogy): in WoW, you don't have to aim.

[AThreatToYou]

I have not seen a single bunny hopper. Nope. Not a single friggin' one. What I have seen, and do myself, is jump in the middle of a fight as an LA and hose my target from above. That shouldn't be changed.

[Babyfark McGeez]

This game could use a stamina bar.

[Phreec]

Learning that some dude gets his panties in a knot when someone uses the word "bunny hop" in to general of a manner?

Yes that is boring.

But its FUNNY that you think thats learning.Just doing what I can to help people realize their wording mistakes.
This game only has jumping. Bunny hopping would mean you'd gain speed by timing the jumps right, in PS2 repetitive jumping does the exact opposite...

It's like how people sometimes call magazines 'clips'. It's not the end of the world but you're better of teaching them the correct terms rather than bashing ME for correcting them.

And for your information my banana hammock remains unknotted.

[Aurmanite]

"World of Warcraft"
"stupid"
"annoying"
"lacked skill"
"immersion"

I can do it too.


Do...what?

You should also add a caveat to your analogy (which pretty much breaks the analogy): in WoW, you don't have to aim.

Right, so the people who complained about movement in WoW had even less of a foot to stand on. You, unlike the rest of the posters, actually made some valid points. Not too valid though.

You get to aim in Planetside. The person with the better aim wins, whether or not they're jumping. I think you'll find that the best gamers don't jump around (they came to get down, they came to get down), and they aren't impacted by people who do.

[Figment]

They're your words, man.

Yes, they are. And you're taking them out of context by lining them up and pretending those are the arguments made. They are qualifications and words in that line up and have no relation to anything the way you present them.

Normandy...surely that is contextual when talking about bunnyhopping. Amirite?

You understand why I mentioned it in the first place? Can you imagine that the Germans would go "hey why aren't they bunnyhopping, but going prone all the time and running for cover instead?"

I apologize if my post seemed to attack you. That was not my intent. Your post is a great example of how the arguments against 'bunnyhopping' in Planetside have no real teeth.

It's not about real teeth. Sure, it's far from as bad as it can be in some other games. Far from.

Still, it shouldn't be encouraged at all, it's an erratic motion that (like ADAD warp inducing in PS1 to avoid hits, is a pretty damn lame thing to be able to do). Is it logical that people do it? Sure. Is it intended or wanted behaviour? No.

[belch]

You understand why I mentioned it in the first place? Can you imagine that the Germans would go "hey why aren't they bunnyhopping, but going prone all the time and running for cover instead?"


...

Finally, it is completely ridiculous to mention actual combat as relevant to a video game...as if any one mentioning such has ever participated in real life combat and has a clue what they're talking about. Or that there is some parallel to the types of skills and luck (yeah, I said it) it takes to survive an amphibious assault against a prepared position, and playing Planetside 2.

[Varsam]

Do...what?

Take things completely out of context, of course.

Right, so the people who complained about movement in WoW had even less of a foot to stand on. You, unlike the rest of the posters, actually made some valid points. Not too valid though.

That's very presumptuous of you.

You get to aim in Planetside. The person with the better aim wins, whether or not they're jumping.

Not exactly. I already addressed this in the part of my post to Sturmhardt, but I guess you didn't read it, so here it is again:

"It makes perfect sense. The guy bunny hopping can anticipate the vertical movement, because he is the one controlling it. The opposition is forced to react, which means he is penalized for reaction times much more heavily then the attacker. This means the attacker has a huge advantage when compensating for vertical shift."

I think you'll find that the best gamers don't jump around (they came to get down, they came to get down), and they aren't impacted by people who do.

On the contrary, most of the best PS2 players out there abuse the shit out of this mechanic when in cqc, just watch any of their streams.

Just doing what I can to help people realize their wording mistakes.
This game only has jumping. Bunny hopping would mean you'd gain speed by timing the jumps right, in PS2 repetitive jumping does the exact opposite...

It's like how people sometimes call magazines 'clips'. It's not the end of the world but you're better of teaching them the correct terms rather than bashing ME for correcting them.

And for your information my banana hammock remains unknotted.

What you're doing isn't promoting "learning" or "teaching", it's the exact opposite - stubbornly holding onto some antiquated meaning of the term instead of accepting that, in this day and age, the meaning has adapted to fit a much more common usage.

You can argue semantics all you want, you're not fooling anyone but yourself - everyone knows what we're talking about. The meanings of words change and evolve over time. In this case, evidently your understanding of it has not.

[belch]

So, in essence, if the other player does not do what you want him to when you shoot at him, he is somehow less skilled than you?

O.o

[Wahooo]

Just doing what I can to help people realize their wording mistakes.
This game only has jumping. Bunny hopping would mean you'd gain speed by timing the jumps right, in PS2 repetitive jumping does the exact opposite...

It's like how people sometimes call magazines 'clips'. It's not the end of the world but you're better of teaching them the correct terms rather than bashing ME for correcting them.

And for your information my banana hammock remains unknotted.

Simple jargon that creates a confusion in terms. I say it is annoying for no rational reason when people are mashing the spacebar every time they get into an encounter. Not the truly bunny hopping but as most people understood the term to mean what I described, and many of them don't know exactly what "real" bunny hopping might be it works.
Same as "hackers". Yeah cheaters, script USERS... hell even the ones writing the cheat scripts can't normally be properly called hackers... but the terms just become common place and interchangeable so the as a common online game colloquialism "hacking" simply means cheating.
Likewise in a common FPS mashing the space bar during an encounter and bouncing around like a dumb ass... has taken on the term bunny hopping.

[MurderBunneh]

So, in essence, if the other player does not do what you want him to when you shoot at him, he is somehow less skilled than you?

O.o
Apparently doing sudden movements in the middle of a fight to avoid getting shot is outside the realm of "fair" to some gamers.

I guess they want it to devolve down to each player taking a knee counting to 3 and then letting the greater dps win. Because everybody knows right mouse+ left mouse = skill.

I saw someone mention earlier that adad strafing is cheap too. Lol wtf are we supposed to do that can be accepted by these people?

[belch]

Apparently doing sudden movements in the middle of a fight to avoid getting shot is outside the realm of "fair" to some gamers.

I guess they want it to devolve down to each player taking a knee counting to 3 and then letting the greater dps win. Because everybody knows right mouse+ left mouse = skill.

I saw someone mention earlier that adad strafing is cheap too. Lol wtf are we supposed to do that can be accepted by these people?

...take a knee, drink water, think things over for a bit...lol

I had no idea that ADAD strafing was unacceptable either. But that's probably just a couple of bozo's with heartburn over that one.

[superseohyun]

Bunny hopping looks so stupid but other than that i dont have much problem with it.

[Varsam]

...

Finally, it is completely ridiculous to mention actual combat as relevant to a video game...as if any one mentioning such has ever participated in real life combat and has a clue what they're talking about. Or that there is some parallel to the types of skills and luck (yeah, I said it) it takes to survive an amphibious assault against a prepared position, and playing Planetside 2.

What you say is true. This is a video game, not reality. But real life informs our conceptions of virtual experiences, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to emulate an experience that would otherwise be lost on most people.

Apparently doing sudden movements in the middle of a fight to avoid getting shot is outside the realm of "fair" to some gamers.

I guess they want it to devolve down to each player taking a knee counting to 3 and then letting the greater dps win. Because everybody knows right mouse+ left mouse = skill.

I saw someone mention earlier that adad strafing is cheap too. Lol wtf are we supposed to do that can be accepted by these people?

By that logic, bunny hopping will become the new gold standard in PS2 - all skilled players will pick up this behavior, and those that don't will be disadvantaged against them.

[Maidere]

By that logic, bunny hopping will become the new gold standard in PS2 - all skilled players will pick up this behavior, and those that don't will be disadvantaged against them.
Cant see how it's wrong by any mean.

[Figment]

@Bunny: adad warping, not strafing. Netcode exploit that induced extreme warping into walls at times and small distance sideways teleporting in ps1.

Some outfits rigged their connections with data limiters to make it happen consistently on top of the 'natural' occurences. So yes, that was beyond fair.

[Tatwi]

I want to be uber skilled too, so I bound my mouse like so:

Mouse Wheel Up: Jump
Mouse Wheel Down: Crouch
Mouse Wheel Click: Fire

Now I can be super uber by holding one button down and moving my finger a little. It's awesome!

[Graywolves]

I want to be uber skilled too, so I bound my mouse like so:

Mouse Wheel Up: Jump
Mouse Wheel Down: Crouch
Mouse Wheel Click: Fire

Now I can be super uber by holding one button down and moving my finger a little. It's awesome!

Oh dude. And here I've been using 3 different fingers all this time.

[Tatwi]

Oh dude. And here I've been using 3 different fingers all this time.

The best part is that I am using my middle finger on people! It's awesome!

:lol:

[Varsam]

Cant see how it's wrong by any mean.

If that's what you want in a game, sure. But many don't want that aspect of arcade style shooter in a massive scale war game. Which is why we're having this debate.

[Cats]

This game punishes you a lot for jumping.


Wrong.

With HSNV your aim point does not jostle up and down while jumping with it. Every other scope in the entire game does. That is the problem. Bunny hopping simply wouldn't be a problem if HSNV didn't exist. It lets me hit with almost as much accuracy standing still as I do with jumping.



Cant see how it's wrong by any mean.

Because what we have now leads to awful gameplay. Two heavies see each other, pop shields, and then mash spacebar and spray bullets at each other. Dumb.

[camycamera]

well, at least it isn't as bad as for (example) BF2142's RDX bunny hopping when a server has FF off... god damnit, that pissed me off.

[Sturmhardt]

Wrong.

With HSNV your aim point does not jostle up and down while jumping with it. Every other scope in the entire game does. That is the problem. Bunny hopping simply wouldn't be a problem if HSNV didn't exist. It lets me hit with almost as much accuracy standing still as I do with jumping.


Finally a real argument! I agree, accuracy with HSNV should be reduced just like with every other scope.

Sure it is, entire world wars have been started with this argument.

I think you may need to keep in mind, people are not posting to convince you, but the developers. You are not important.

What makes you think I believe otherwise? I do the same.

.sent via phone.

[Maniya]

Shoot while jump, looks quite dumb, not just in reality, even in this damn game, looks horrible and stupid. If i see two heavies jumping and shooting each other, i would kill both even one of them is in my faction.

[Varsam]

Finally a real argument!

The next time you're looking for argument against your position, try opening your eyes.

*Complains there's no real arguments against his stance*

*Blatantly ignores counterpoints to his arguments*

Here it is again, since you're evidently blind:

None of these arguments are real.

We are voicing our opinions. The same as you. The difference is that you are snidely dismissive of ours while simultaneously asserting that yours is fact.

1. You say there are no severe downsides for the hopper. Have you actually tried doing it? I tried it with assault rifles and carbines with and without numerous attachments and the punishment to accuracy from the hip is huge, you can't hit shit after a few meters. If you ADS you can't even see while jumping because your scope is wobbling around like crazy. How is this "no severe downsides"? That might be the case for shotguns (which I have not tried and can't comment on) or specific scopes but then the topic should be about shotguns and hopping or specific scopes and hopping, not jumping around in general. Conclusion: severe downsides already in place in most cases. I don't know the loopholes though.

That's a moot point, the only time you see bunny hopping is in cqc situations.

2. You say that the guy who is jumping around has to use LESS skill to hit his target than the guy who is standing still? That doesn't make sense. If you aimed for the upper center mass of a jumping person it shouldn't really matter that much except you don't make headshots, but the hopper has the same problem, his crosshair is moving vertically too.

It makes perfect sense. The guy bunny hopping can anticipate the vertical movement, because he is the one controlling it. The opposition is forced to react, which means he is penalized for reaction times much more heavily then the attacker. This means the attacker has a huge advantage when compensating for vertical shift.

3. If it DID give an advantage to the guy hopping (I think it does only in situations where he doesn't shoot, like reloading etc), it wouldn't be a problem too, since everyone can do it. Just like strafing, sprinting and taking cover. It gives you an edge in certain situations but everybody is free to do it. It can't be OP by definition, out otherwise strafing and taking cover will be considered OP too.

Please. That argument is utterly ridiculous. You can't claim something is theoretically balanced simply because everyone can do it. That's like claiming an OP weapon is balanced because everyone theoretically has access to it. Just because a certain aspect of the game is freely available to everyone doesn't mean that that aspect doesn't adversely affect the relationships between it and other aspects of the game. This is called "bad game play". Bunny hopping promotes bad game play based on a disproportionate difficulty-to-reward ratio.

Small wonder you're so smug in your position, when the only arguments you can see are the ones you agree with.

[Sturmhardt]

The next time you're looking for argument against your position, try opening your eyes.

*Complains there's no real arguments against his stance*

*Blatantly ignores counterpoints to his arguments*

Here it is again, since you're evidently blind:


Or another reason for that could be that I'm on a small island in Thailand right now with unstable internet and only my phone, so I'm not responding to everyone quoting me and your arguments are not really that strong.


That's a moot point, the only time you see bunny hopping is in cqc situations.


But cqc is not limited to encounters under 5m. For example if you fight around a tower you will have fights everywhere from 0 to 75m. Bunny hoping only helps on VERY short range if you shoot. Have you actually tried it? It fucks up your aim pretty hard, try hitting something beyond 10m while jumping around. Maybe VS weapons are not affected that much, but NC weapons definitely are.


It makes perfect sense. The guy bunny hopping can anticipate the vertical movement, because he is the one controlling it. The opposition is forced to react, which means he is penalized for reaction times much more heavily then the attacker. This means the attacker has a huge advantage when compensating for vertical shift.


You are right on that one, the active player has the advantage by knowing when the movement will happen. Just like when he is strafing or taking cover.


Please. That argument is utterly ridiculous. You can't claim something is theoretically balanced simply because everyone can do it. That's like claiming an OP weapon is balanced because everyone theoretically has access to it.


No it's not. An op weapon or vehicle is not available to you instantly all the time. But you could ALWAYS bunny hop if you wanted to, immediately and in every situation. It might be something you don't like but it can't be OP. There is no situation where you can NOT do it, so it can't be unfair. By that logic strafing or taking cover can be called OP too, which is stupid.


This is called "bad game play". Bunny hopping promotes bad game play based on a disproportionate difficulty-to-reward ratio.


I think you have not tried it, because I believe the downsides are so big that bunny hopping isn't worth it. Except maybe with these infrared scopes that doesn't really make sense and should be fixed.

Now if you just hate it just say so, I don't mind and it's a valid opinion. But don't try to cover it up in some kind of false logic that doesn't exist. I wouldn't mind if they added stamina and you could only jump 3 times before you run out of it... Buy it's actually no real problem worth spending precious programmer time on.

.sent via phone.

[Sheppe]

Am I the only one who's stamina decreases when I jump frequently in a short space of time? i.e not jumping as high or as far and more ragged breathing?

[Baneblade]

Normal jumping should do the same thing to your aim that sprinting does. Jump Jets should remain the exception.

Besides, it can be funny watching an LA forget how high he can get until he lands.

[Figment]

Besides, it can be funny watching an LA forget how high he can get until he lands.

Big source of my deaths right there! Even mini-drops become lethal if you wern't full health - or... if you like finding new routes to The Crown and Tech Plants along less... clutter happy sides. Or simply start a jump off a bridge with a quarter to half a jetpack. :p

[Wahooo]

Bunny hoping only helps on VERY short range if you shoot. Have you actually tried it? It fucks up your aim pretty hard, try hitting something beyond 10m while jumping around. Maybe VS weapons are not affected that much, but NC weapons definitely are.

I guess this makes me wonder about hacks with some of the regular spastic jumpers. There are a couple guys out there I know get hackusations every time they are on, and as far as I can tell they really are just that good. I don't see any evidence of ESP or auto-aim. (BTW they don't jump around)

But there are a few that I've had issues with who are just at the distance that they really should have missed quite a few shots by jumping, yet still kill just as fast if they were standing still and caught me mid-reload. Now i'm all paranoid.

[duomaxwl]

Bring back stamina. That should help the issue a bit at least.

[Chaff]

.
....quite a long thread for a problem that desn't exist. It does look "silly". I rarely see it.

I have no problem with someone bunny hoping in cqc situations.

" ....be vehwee vehwee quiet.....I'm hunting Wabbits....."
.

[raw]

Bunnyhopping is just lame as hell on TR, because their weapons are immune to jumping and generally everything that decreases accuracy.

[Aurmanite]

It makes perfect sense. The guy bunny hopping can anticipate the vertical movement, because he is the one controlling it. The opposition is forced to react, which means he is penalized for reaction times much more heavily then the attacker. This means the attacker has a huge advantage when compensating for vertical shift.

How is this different from a player suddenly zigging? Or zagging...Or making any sudden movement with the intent of disrupting their enemy's aim? The truth is, when someone jumps their path of travel is fixed, they can't change direction in mid air like they can on their feet.

The solution is to use your mouse accordingly.

[Figment]

Because a zigzag is a more natural movement than jumpjumpjumpjump.

[Aurmanite]

Because a zigzag is a more natural movement than jumpjumpjumpjump.

What does that have to do with nanites, bro? Natural movement. Makey no sense-y.

[Figment]

So you are saying there were nanites in counterstrike source?

[Tatwi]

So you are saying there were nanites in counterstrike source?

If it hadn't five pages or before, then this thread has now officially jumped the shark, so to speak.

[Varsam]

Or another reason for that could be that I'm on a small island in Thailand right now with unstable internet and only my phone

My apologies, it seemed like you were conveniently ignoring points that might threaten your position. But that still doesn't mean you can selectively choose which points to read and respond to and expect not to be called out on it. Address all points of opposition, or our argument is flawed.

...and your arguments are not really that strong.

...to you.

But cqc is not limited to encounters under 5m. For example if you fight around a tower you will have fights everywhere from 0 to 75m. Bunny hoping only helps on VERY short range if you shoot. Have you actually tried it? It fucks up your aim pretty hard, try hitting something beyond 10m while jumping around. Maybe VS weapons are not affected that much, but NC weapons definitely are.

Again, a moot point. cqc is by definition "close quarters combat", within the 0-10m range. Anything outside that range falls under a different rule set in terms of encountered situations and proper responses. If you're arguing that bunny hopping is only marginally effective at best outside of 10m, I agree with you, wholeheartedly. That's not what I'm arguing. And yes, I have tried it.

No it's not. An op weapon or vehicle is not available to you instantly all the time. But you could ALWAYS bunny hop if you wanted to, immediately and in every situation. It might be something you don't like but it can't be OP. There is no situation where you can NOT do it, so it can't be unfair. By that logic strafing or taking cover can be called OP too, which is stupid.

You missed the point of the analogy (even though it could be argued that OP vehicles in this game ARE freely available to everyone at all times, but that's another thread entirely). It was not to draw a parallel between OP weapons/vehicles and bunny hopping. If that were the case the analogy would only prove your point, that OP weapons/vehicles, when made readily available to everyone, do not imbalance the interactions between players, because all players would then have access to and use the same tools.

The point of the analogy was to emphasize bunny hopping and its effect on cqc combat as a whole. In the same way that introducing an "OP" weapon stagnates game play and limits player choice (bad game play), so too does the effectiveness of bunny hopping in cqc essentially enforce an established norm in player behavior that detracts from game play variability, player choice, and (least importantly) realism.

I think you have not tried it, because I believe the downsides are so big that bunny hopping isn't worth it. Except maybe with these infrared scopes that doesn't really make sense and should be fixed.

I have, as I mentioned before, and on more than one occasion. If you had taken the time to read other peoples' input on a subject when in dialogue about it, you'd have seen it. I do it quite often in cqc, and more often than not the other player simply cannot react in time. It's quite common practice for me, as it is for most of the other BR50+'s I play with/have encountered thus far, so it's safe to assume that all of them share my position that bunny hopping is quite effective in cqc.

How is this different from a player suddenly zigging? Or zagging...Or making any sudden movement with the intent of disrupting their enemy's aim? The truth is, when someone jumps their path of travel is fixed, they can't change direction in mid air like they can on their feet.

The solution is to use your mouse accordingly.

You are right, they are essentially the same (if you define them by their basest similarities, as you have done here). The difference is only in degrees. I'm going to assume by zig zagging you mean strafing back and forth (because with the other interpretation, sprinting back and forth, the downside is clear - you can't shoot back at all). This method of avoidance, while still effective, can be coped with and overcome given a modicum of practice by most players, as it is essentially limited to a single plane of movement (technically two, but moving back and forth has no effect on avoidance). Bunny hopping introduces a second plane of movement and a trajectory change that is sudden and random (to the defending player), and is very often too difficult for most players to compensate for in cqc, because it introduces many, many more possible vectors of movement.

As a community (and more importantly SOE should be doing this), then, the question becomes not whether bunny hopping is OP (though that line of argument shouldn't be ignored per se), but whether in cqc bunny hopping should be acceptable common behavior for players, and how, if at all, this affects/limits/expands player behavior and choice/responses to that situation.

Also, by your (very) rough definition of evasive behavior, teleporting (blinking) could easily be defined as, "any sudden movement with the intent of disrupting their enemy's aim". If we then added this mechanic into PS2 and make it a freely available ability to all players, would it be considered balanced, since everyone could do it? Would it encourage good game play?

What does that have to do with nanites, bro? Natural movement. Makey no sense-y.

No one said anything about nanites.

[Babyfark McGeez]

set com_maxfps 76?

[Phalanx]

I just wish people would stop calling "pressing the spacebar repeatedly" a 'Bunnyhop'. Yes, jumping constantly might be a problem, but jumping constantly is not 'bunnyhopping'. All these young whippersnappers who weren't around during Quake, I tell you... ;)

[Koadster]

Im amazed no one has posted this yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=a9qXbgrx9rg#t=25s

I CAN DANCE ALL DAY, I CAN DANCE ALL DAY, JUST TRY AND HIT ME ! hahaha

[Scientologist]

Bunny hopping is exploiting a bug that removes your hitbox from graphical framework. Bunny hopping + tapping ad mid air removes your hitbox from your graphical framework but also displaces it. It is now 100% random where that hit box is in a 27^m cubic area. That's like the size of most bunny hoppers apartments!

A side-issue related to countering this, especially for medium-ish skilled players, is do you have your mouse sensitivity lower so you can engage in proper shootouts (that are fun), or do you have your mouse primed to rocket skyward to spray that neckbeard-lair sized hitbox bouncing around (not fun)?

My compromise to this is two-fold, you keep your mouse sensitivity low enough you feel you are controlling your gunplay, AND you create a one button macro to activate /suicide. You engage in a shootout and ads ir/nv bunny hopping starts, you hit your ejector seat button. They fire back normally, you have fun, win/lose, both of you are playing the same game.

Wouldn't it be funny if everyone did that :P Imagine people who make some kind of (pathetic) income from streaming having people drop dead by themselves around them day and night when the streamer starts hopping around lol.

"Well guys, these uhn, these guys... Are all dying because of my sheer awesomeness... Yeah I know it's been like 4 hours since you've seen me get a kill, but you know..."

Broken players make games broken.

[Realmofdarkness]

bunny hopping will grant you the white bunny suite automaticlly and instantly equipped.

Who doesnt want to shoot the jumping guy in a bunny suite?

[Bags]

I just wish people would stop calling "pressing the spacebar repeatedly" a 'Bunnyhop'. Yes, jumping constantly might be a problem, but jumping constantly is not 'bunnyhopping'. All these young whippersnappers who weren't around during Quake, I tell you... ;)

yeah good luck getting anyone to call it that

[wasdie]

Bunny hopping paired with flinch is extremely annoying. Add in the latency of a lot of players and the gunplay of this game is just not fun anymore.

[Kerrec]

Bunny hopping is exploiting a bug that removes your hitbox from graphical framework. Bunny hopping + tapping ad mid air removes your hitbox from your graphical framework but also displaces it. It is now 100% random where that hit box is in a 27^m cubic area. That's like the size of most bunny hoppers apartments!

First time I hear this. And my gameplay experiences don't really back that up.

Last time I heard that kind of "exploit" was when I played BF2. Server side hit registration causes this kind of hit box misalignment. However, PS2 has Client side hit registration. That means the "graphical framework" of the player character is much more aligned with the location of the hitbox.

As far as my gameplay experiences, I don't have any issues hitting someone that jumps around if they are far enough that the aiming corrections are minor (ie: not jumping right on top of me/thru me).

I jump myself when I'm caught reloading. I don't do it conciously and I call myself cheap when I realize I'm doing it, but it DOES work better than just strafing alone. So it's hard to kick the habit.

The worst offenders IMO are people that do it with shotguns. They'll mag dump while jumping and since the pellets spread anyway the loss of accuracy for their setup isn't an important factor.