Editorial: Decline of Fan Sites

[Hamma]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/news-editorial-decline-of-fan-sites-2962.htm

[Hamma]

By the way I wrote this ages ago - has nothing to do with my post earlier this morning as I'm sure some will claim. :P

[VaderShake]

You trying to tell us something Hamma?

Truthfully, like everything else technology will become cyclical. There is a younger generations who will one day discover this cool retro idea called a "fan site" and flock to them. Right now it's trending to Facebook, Twitter, ect. social media is still young and most importantly "free". However the old addiage will ring true, you get what you pay for... On the other end the internet has been bought up by larger companies that aquire fan sites to eventually shut them down.

I think the videogame industry is at a cross roads of technology and lack of developer imagination. With the new consoles we will all be basically playing on PC's with the same processing power for a few years until once again the PC starts to distance it's self but that may take a bit longer now.

[Hamma]

Naw just my view on things - not trying to tell anyone anything :) Good points as well!

[Mastachief]

Good read and pretty much spot on if very depressing :(

[Crator]

Good article. I think that the fan sites need to evolve. Those sites need to ask the game companies, "What is it I can do for you that you can't handle on your own site?". SOE introduced the Road Map which gives them a nice feedback interface with the community. That's what they want to use to interface with us. Facebook/Twitter are interfaces too but those are more quick and dirty interactions.

[ChipMHazard]

I was kinda hoping for a subtle "wink wink, nudge nudge" to developers all over the wide world to stop flipping using Twitter!!
http://talentmechanic.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/rage.png

Aye, informative if not also sad. But time stops for no man and the world is ever changing... blah blah blah, yadi yadi yada, etc. etc. etc. and so on. But darn it I'll just end up a bitter middle aged man who spends most of time screaming "Back in my day we didn't use birds or books with human faces to communicate!".

[Striker KOJ]

Hamma,

I don't know you personally, and I rarely post on this site, but it's a little hard not to connect this post with your recent thread, and I think that is the biggest issue with Fan Sites today.

You mention that a lot of "fan sites" are being gobbled up by larger companies, and the "fan" portion is being twisted or removed, and the "site" portion is being changed into another advertising medium for the company. You seem to indicate that you aren't really fond of the trend because it cheapens the whole reason a fan site exists in the first place. I think the reason why you got such a reaction from a few PSU members in regards to your recent thread about planetside 1, is that it seemed like you are advocating exactly what you don't want to happen.

Was your intention to make Planetside Universe the exclusive location for ALL information about Planetside, above all other websites and magazines, and even above the official company locations? Or did you make Plansite Universe because you are a fan of the game and wanted to share your love and enthusiasm with other fans? Based on your thoughts about fan sites, I would suspect the latter. And if that is the case, why do you care how “relevant” this community is. Does it make you less of a fan if Smed and Higby no longer browse your website? Do you become less enthusiastic about a product you love if SOE no longer gives you any exclusives, behind the scenes, up and comings, etc.? Again, I would suspect no.

The more you try to attract the attention of the "company" the less of a fan site you become. It becomes less about coming together to discuss a mutual affinity for a product, and more about being the golden child of the company. Less about what people are saying, and more about how it is said, because we don’t want to upset the company, because….

Because why?

Summary:

Fan sites, like the games they are devoted to, used to born out of love and enthusiasm for the product. Now they are more concerned with image, and ultimately, how to monetize it.

[maradine]

If you're going to softball in that connection, it's worth pointing out the hilarity of doing it from a site that has to take donations to make its hosting bills, and is otherwise run out of pocket.

You're a piece of work, mate.

[Striker KOJ]

Good article. I think that the fan sites need to evolve. Those sites need to ask the game companies, "What is it I can do for you that you can't handle on your own site?". SOE introduced the Road Map which gives them a nice feedback interface with the community. That's what they want to use to interface with us. Facebook/Twitter are interfaces too but those are more quick and dirty interactions.

**Sorry for potential double post**

I think the bold part of the quote above is exactly the wrong attitude. Granted, I have no desire to begin a fan site, nor the ambition to keep one running, but as a FAN of things myself, I don't want to be "doing" anything for the company other than enjoying their products.

What is puzzling to me is how can company's like SOE, with significantly more capital and resources than someone like Hamma, for instance, be in a position to "not handle" something on a website? Other than advertising and general enthusiasm, what can a third party website possibly add to a product that cannot be accomplished via official company means?

All of the interaction between developers and players on this site is nice, but ultimately frivolous because SOE can always say "well nothing we said was official because it was just a conversation with some people on some website that has no official connection to us." Similarly, statements on the official company forums are also often disregarded as "discussion", and not concrete plans.

So I ask again, what can be accomplished on a third party website that cannot be accomplished on an official company website? And to take it a step further, why should we, the consumer, take care of the things that the company "can't handle"?

Not trying to attack anyone, I'm just a man asking questions.

[Striker KOJ]

If you're going to softball in that connection, it's worth pointing out the hilarity of doing it from a site that has to take donations to make its hosting bills, and is otherwise run out of pocket.

You're a piece of work, mate.

Except for the part where I never stated that Planetside Universe is doing that...

I "softballed" the connection because that's how I see it. Obviously PSU was created out of a love for Planetside. So when the creator and owner of the site devoted to fans of the product tells the fans to not talk a certain way about the product because someone might no longer think us "relevant" as fans seemed counter to the original intent of the site...

Maybe I wasn't very clear?

[maradine]

Perhaps not. But I certainly read it more harshly that your clarified intent, so I apologize.

[Crator]

Not trying to attack anyone, I'm just a man asking questions.

By all means, continue. I'm shaking my head in agreement with most of what you are saying and questions you are asking. I was just trying to address Hamma's article off the top of my head.

[Striker KOJ]

If you're going to softball in that connection, it's worth pointing out the hilarity of doing it from a site that has to take donations to make its hosting bills, and is otherwise run out of pocket.

You're a piece of work, mate.

Perhaps not. But I certainly read it more harshly that your clarified intent, so I apologize.

Which is funny, because that is exactly how the other thread got out of control. :lol:

Isn't text fun? Who needs tone, inflection and body language...

[Rahabib]

I love Planetside Universe, but I am still not sure what you are are asking us to do. Its just a lament for days of yore. Well I kinda miss newspapers - but is it really the public's fault that the way people receive information has changed?

What I am getting from this article is that you are worried your role in the community is unimportant - so let me talk you off the bridge for a moment ;).

First, off let me tell you why I spend countless hours on this site every day. First, I have a boring job and lots a free time :). Second, I don't know where to find half the information you get. I follow you on twitter, and some of the devs but you have a better understanding of where this information is. I dont like the noise of redit so I am glad there are people available to post it here for us. Youtube vids, twitch tv, this community brings the resources to me rather than me trying to find it. Third, this site caters more to the dedicated players of the community. The PS2 forums - well suck. They are not helpful in anyway. Its just people bitching and moaning with no substance. I feel that sometimes it gets that way here too, but not as bad.

So what can you do to fill the PS2 communities niche.

instead of worrying about creating content constantly, the main service in my eyes is the aggregation of information. In fact, since this is a forum based community, you dont have to do it all - continue to let others post info. Contribute when you want to, not when you feel you have to. If you constantly worry about content or what people think of your site, its becomes a stress not a release.
Believe it or not, some people still view you as a leader of the community. If you post a video it does mean more than Joe Shmoe. There are levels of reliable content you can provide thats more than others do. Its like an encyclopedia vrs wikipedia - sure people use wikipedia, but an encyclopedia carries more clout. I am bad with analogies today.
Let features come naturally. I can see the frustration getting the PS2 stats running, but instead of trying to do it yourself - maybe its ok to let go of it and let another site do it. Then link up. I remember running an old Warhammer gaming website in the early 90s. There were those who were competing to be THE main resource and wanted to cut off all other websites. What happened was the smaller sites banded together to link to resources using "web rings." I guess it was because we were much younger (most of us were in high school at the time), but it didnt matter as much if we were the premier site or not. We watched as all of our sites increased as we linked to one another rather than competing. Honestly, I don't know if there really is a competitive site to this one other than the main ones. What I am trying to get is, if people don't care about the PS2 stats, then don't force it or drop it or hand it off to someone who cares. Now that the code is out there someone will run with it. Its ok to let it go once in a while - thats hard I know. Don't let people steal your content, obviously.


Anyway, I will still continue to use this site even if its just for the forums and AGN. If theres something more you want from us, you gotta tell us man.

[bpostal]

There's one thing fan sites can do that corporate run sites can't. Foster the tight knit communities that have grown up amongst dedicated fan sites such as PSU.
As a poor analogy, Command Center is great! It's awesome to see the devs take such an active role in giving us info and feedback to our feedback but it can't replace AGN. I can't put it in words, the closest I can get is to rehash Interplay's adage: By gamers, for gamers.

[maradine]

Which is funny, because that is exactly how the other thread got out of control. :lol:

Isn't text fun? Who needs tone, inflection and body language...

Webcams for everyone! Wait . . .

[Hamma]

I love Planetside Universe, but I am still not sure what you are are asking us to do. Its just a lament for days of yore. Well I kinda miss newspapers - but is it really the public's fault that the way people receive information has changed?

What I am getting from this article is that you are worried your role in the community is unimportant - so let me talk you off the bridge for a moment ;).

My article is just general observations on Fan Sites over the past 10+ years I've been running them. Nothing more and nothing less.

I have no fear about what will happen to PSU moreso a concern for the dying age of other fansites coming around.

[Rahabib]

My article is just general observations on Fan Sites over the past 10+ years I've been running them. Nothing more and nothing less.

I have no fear about what will happen to PSU moreso a concern for the dying age of other fansites coming around.

good to hear. except the part of fansites dieing. :)

[Babyfark McGeez]

I hate twitter and i only use facebook to keep in touch with friends i cannot meet otherwise.

Forums are imo still the best way to get together for a specific topic, and since the official forum is a hostile cesspit (like pretty much any official game forum) i use this one instead.

Unofficial game forums won't die out, i'm fairly certain on that. And if they do, i still won't use twitter. :p

[ChipMHazard]

I hate twitter and i only use facebook to keep in touch with friends i cannot meet otherwise.

Forums are imo still the best way to get together for a specific topic, and since the official forum is a hostile cesspit (like pretty much any official game forum) i use this one instead.

Unofficial game forums won't die out, i'm fairly certain on that. And if they do, i still won't use twitter. :p

That's what I like to see. Good man!

[Rahabib]

I hate twitter and i only use facebook to keep in touch with friends i cannot meet otherwise.

Forums are imo still the best way to get together for a specific topic, and since the official forum is a hostile cesspit (like pretty much any official game forum) i use this one instead.

Unofficial game forums won't die out, i'm fairly certain on that. And if they do, i still won't use twitter. :p

lol. I only use twitter and facebook because my work requires me to (I am a media and marketing manager). Personally I hate twitter and facebook. I didnt have an facebook account until just a few months ago, and I refuse to use it for personal use (not even my wife is added to it). I cant stand redit and the official forums suck - so if its not here, I wont see it. Twitter I follow because I have to have it up anyway. I have no followers and dont care if I ever get any.

Viva la forums!

[Mox]

Twitter, FB and Co. offer no real content and no real discussion. Just some words with no depth. It will never be a proper substitute for a forum.

[SixShooter]

As a poor analogy, Command Center is great! It's awesome to see the devs take such an active role in giving us info and feedback to our feedback but it can't replace AGN.

So true!!

Great write up Hamma.
:cheers:

[Anderz]

I think the decline of fan sits is partly related to the decline of mod tools.

It used to be that fan sites were the primary news outlets for community based projects, such as full conversion mods. But without many games shipping with mod tools, that's died off.

Still, community created video content has thrived in recent years, and I honestly think PSU could do more to highlight that side of the community.

[Mordelicius]

Game fan sites will remain relevant as long as there are:

- Long term MMOs
- Moddable games

I just visited an old game fansite I used to frequent that's been around since 1999. Because of the modding community and the longevity of the gaming series, I was shocked to see 260+ guests viewing alone aside from the members logged in.

As for the current importance of PSU, it may not get as much exclusives as newer corporate channels but it's influence on the development of PS2 is much stronger. I can't picture the state of PS2 without the input from this community's forum.

Anyway, the internet just keeps reinventing itself. When the granddaddy of internet hub, AOL, died, its personalized hub facet eventually reincarnated to Myspace, Facebook and Twitter. The news/content aggregation portion reformed into Digg and Reddit. While Google is still Google after it killed all those search engines :lol:.

So, basically if one is looking for stuff in the internet, people used to find them off AOL (channels, message board, chat, im), digging through Yahoo or using the pre-Google-dominated search engines. Now, that the old guard has imploded everything is blooming in their own specialized niche universe.

Before the social networking explosion, there basically are three gaming sites: Fan sites, Official sites then Review sites. Now, if one is looking for "Planetside 2", PSU may get a alot of hit from Google or maybe a crosslink from Twitter. Before, the fan sites, review sites and official sites share links feeding off each other's traffic. Now, social networking is basically undercutting much of the middle-man large fansites in terms of propagating information.

Also, the smaller fan sites simply recrystallized into blogs or twitter pages, while the bigger sites are still around due to two thing I've mentioned above: MMOs and Modding.

[ChipMHazard]

I think the decline of fan sits is partly related to the decline of mod tools.

It used to be that fan sites were the primary news outlets for community based projects, such as full conversion mods. But without many games shipping with mod tools, that's died off.

Still, community created video content has thrived in recent years, and I honestly think PSU could do more to highlight that side of the community.

Good point. Nothing improves the longevity of a community or a game more so than modding.

[Assist]

I was kinda hoping for a subtle "wink wink, nudge nudge" to developers all over the wide world to stop flipping using Twitter!!


AGREEEEEEEEEEEEED
I hate having to go to Twitter to figure out big news for shit.

Hamma, you're dead on with social media taking over. I don't think it's a good thing either. I see why developers use Twitter, Facebook, etc, but they should be doing what SoE attempts to do and use their fans sites. Twitter certainly has its uses, but I think NEWS worthy stuff should be laid out on forums and fansites. I see some of the dev's at SoE do it right when they link to a story on a website where they made a post. That's how you build a community. Twitter is NOT a fan community, and personally I feel the same way about Reddit, it's a great place to put a link to a reliable website and that's all.
It's similar to what mass media and the internet has done to Newspapers. How many people do you see read a Newspaper anymore? People go to websites that stream headlines and then sort through to what they want to read. I know I do, without fark.com I don't think I'd know what happened in the world.

The problem is that the fansite lifetime is not based on the fans themselves but the product they're a fan of. If that company doesn't recognize the fansite then they're irrelevant. The company decides whether or not their fans stick around and I think with the last bitch-fest from certain people it gives good reason to worry about the appeal of PSU. I came to this site originally because I saw a developer posting here. It made me think that this is a place that developers read so when I come up with asinine ideas they may possibly read them. The problem is some people weren't educated with the great films in history: 302 Found

[ChipMHazard]

<snip>

Well written and I whole'heartedly agree.

[Micro]

Aye, informative if not also sad. But time stops for no man and the world is ever changing... blah blah blah, yadi yadi yada, etc. etc. etc. and so on. But darn it I'll just end up a bitter middle aged man who spends most of time screaming "Back in my day we didn't use birds or books with human faces to communicate!".

That ^

[SwiftRanger]

A proper fan site's task is to be critical but foremost to channel all the worthwhile community and development stuff into a nice overview. Internet and social media are evolving but not everyone can keep tabs on what the devs said on Twitter, FNO, the Something Awful forum, SOE Live, Command Center, the official forums, Reddit and even here. Someone has to filter the relevant stuff and put it in one place.

Imo it's your "job" to compile that information because whether a visitor to PSU is a PS1 veteran or a PS newbie doesn't matter: we're all absolutely starved for new information, PlanetSide 2 is in a development stage all the time and that's what makes it so exciting (even more so than with PS1 imo). And if you ask me, PSU is doing a great job already but compiling what has been said could still use some work as certain details still slip through (I've tried to do similar things (http://forums.gaspowered.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=48269) for other games (http://forums.gaspowered.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=37297) under other aliases (http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=465922) in the past but you have to maintain such compilation threads). It's not easy since words sometimes get retracted by devs and the game is in a constant flux. And SOE is really talking all the time which is good but it's harder for its fans that way :). For example: with all due respect for FNO, it's an awesome concept, but seeing 2 hours of video each week to extract the worthy dev quotes/answers and new content footage there is something I can't bring myself to every time.

PSU should post such things alongside with what the community comes up with; launching valued feedback and suggestion forum threads for the developers, akin to what Reddit has consistently (and remarkably) been very good at for PS2. Youtube-flicks with great tips and tricks also belong here. All the while there still needs to be a civil behaviour towards everyone (not easy to enforce either).

A random gameplay stream of a big outfit leader with often questionable ethics (http://t.co/Q76UeG76yT) for example is the "other" end of the community, PSU shouldn't go there. That's the part of social media I don't think you have to be jealous about, a regular fan site just can't cope with that. It's also understandable though that people follow those streams because if they're not getting their info fix of developers then they'll want to see feedback from people playing the game and also watch more tricks of how to become a more effective XP whore. In the end the folks who are looking at those streams will still come back here if you provide them with new information about the game or something that will enhance their playing experience (the stats API for example).

I think the best proof that PSU isn't doing bad at all is that with each GU more visitors flock to the site to see the reactions about how the game is. You're the diablo.incgamers.com of the PlanetSide 2 community because you're the oldest fan site and you still remain critical of the game too. And we all have to stay critical since PS2 could be so much more. We'll get there though, I am sure of that.

EDIT: as for big PC gaming sites not linking many stories anymore; they aren't used to the F2P model and the constant stream of new information bits. They won't dig as deep as PSU because what they'll find of new details is something that doesn't warrant a newspost for the general audience. Only with big updates will they get into action and that info is available to everyone, not just PSU. It's hard to get exclusive info yes, still, when you're at a live event I think that's a chance to make a stand. Keep up those interviews with hard questions, sites will pick those up eventually.

[Hamma]

Good post sir - well said!

[Thunderhawk]

I must say, I do rely heavily on PSU for cutting out the waffle from FNO and just highlighting what the Devs said during their segment.

I am not that excited about watching some outfit do their thing on a server somewhere, and much rather had anything the Devs say (Luperza and Jimmy) all in one place to read.

I think the community of PSU (not just the owners who do a great job) do very well in collecting that information and posting it on the PS2 forums for us to read.

Thanks for that service guys, it saves me watching hours of Twitch video just in case a Dev says something 3/4 of the way through that I would find interesting.

[Hamma]

Glad to hear! :D

[Babyfark McGeez]

I think the decline of fan sits is partly related to the decline of mod tools.

It used to be that fan sites were the primary news outlets for community based projects, such as full conversion mods. But without many games shipping with mod tools, that's died off.

Still, community created video content has thrived in recent years, and I honestly think PSU could do more to highlight that side of the community.

Very good point. This has been my main gripe with "modern" gaming, the shift from offering the users the tools to be creative to selling episodic content that should simply be consumed (and paid for).