Is the API invasive?

[EVILPIG]

It's really awesome having the information from the API available. For the 666th, it has provided a window that shows the community that we have the largest active playerbase that I have seen so far. We take pride in this because our size (which is not our goal) rivals other outfits that simply randomly invite players with no outfit in game. Everyone in the 666th went to our website and applied to be here and through our diligence to maintain fun we have retained a great percentage of activity in an environment where so many are leaving the game. Thank you for that (and apologies on the length of that, just demonstrating how much we value that information).

However, is there certain information that simply should not be included? The one that really stands out to me is the ability to see how many players an outfit currently has online. If the enemy is moving on a target and see an outfit tag and say that outfit only has 8 members on, should the enemy really be able to look it up? You could have PSU for example open on another monitor and quickly check. Or should information that can be used to ridicule players or outfits be available? "Take your crappy 4 members online and shove it" (not actual quote, just example). I know we love stats, but just as I have opposed the use of K/D for nine years, it seems that stats can be more hurtful than helpful. Curious how others feel about this?

[MrBloodworth]

Meh, it is what it is and it won't be changed.

If petty people want to use it as Ammo against other players, well, they are petty. Its a game.

[maradine]

We use that data as an organizational tool - ie, something that allows our human players to better organize and have fun. I don't give a wet slap if someone's deriving in-game tactical value from it.

[bpostal]

If anything could be marked as invasive it would be the names of the players currently online, not the number.
PS2Stats, like PSU, shows if a player is online and which of their friends are online. That's a bit much IMO. This ain't fuckin facebook.

[MrBloodworth]

If anything could be marked as invasive it would be the names of the players currently online, not the number.
PS2Stats, like PSU, shows if a player is online and which of their friends are online. That's a bit much IMO. This ain't fuckin facebook.

The developers may disagree with you. "Players" for SOE is indeed their version of Social media. I Believe it started with EQ2 Players.

[Bocheezu]

I think the online/offline with complete friends list and friends online/offline is too much. That has no business being there.

I think the most useful part is the timeline, because that does give some insight to player skill that K/D does not. You can see that all those kills are just HE Prowler farming or something. It should show vehicle kills as well so you can see who's farming and who's making an effort to blow up Sundies. It should show guys rezzed. There's a lot of potential there that isn't being completely realized.

[Tatwi]

I voted "yes" for one simple reason: they do not offer ANY privacy or opt out features at all. I personally don't give shit what anyone thinks of my PS2 characters, etc. But other folks might appreciate some privacy.

[maradine]

Opt out or api filters would be fine by me.

[Ghoest9]

I think you should have the option to hide everything except your name, faction and BR.

[MrBloodworth]

They own this data. EULA people.

[maradine]

I don't think its a question of whether they can and can't do what they're doing - more of what people prefer.

[MrBloodworth]

I don't think its a question of whether they can and can't do what they're doing - more of what people prefer.

Just Preempting the "Free speech" arguments. :D

[Ghoest9]

They own this data. EULA people.

And how does this pertain to anything else said here - person.

[MrBloodworth]

And how does this pertain to anything else said here - person.

The expectation of privacy.

[Hamma]

Short answer: no.

It's a video game with video game characters, they aren't revealing your home address and phone number. If they removed Outfit Online status people could just query individual characters. Therefore in order to meet your request they would have to completely remove online status.

This data is available in their EQ2 API as well, its very unlikely this will be changed and honestly I see no reason it should be.

Plus the API is released now, to build in privacy will now break anything that has been coded for the API and even their own apps.

[Tatwi]

But they are revealing exactly when you play, how long you play for, and who you associate with. Sadly this is ammo for anyone who knows your characters (which Are easy enough to determine), such as a disgruntled ex or an employer (who you shouldn't be working for anyway).

And indeed, it's not about who owns what, it's simply a matter of offering customers products and features that meet their needs.

EQ2 offers a privacy opt out, Hamma. :)

[Ghoest9]

EVE handles their API better.

[EVILPIG]

EVE handles their API better.

In what way?

Good points brought up by others regarding the ability for those you may not want to know your gaming status. Should you have the option to not allow just anyone to see when and how much you are online?

[maradine]

EVE API keys have a granular permissions model. Players generate them on the CCP web interface and hand them out to parties they want to have access to the specific bits the player added to the API key.

[Sledgecrushr]

I voted no. But as a caveat I think there needs to be a /anonymous command that would obscure your characters stats from the general public.

[Figment]

Don't think things like friendslists and alternate characters should be visible. Outfit activity perhaps only for outfit members.

On top of that, I think in general players should be asked in game if it is okay to disclose their own information in public in the first place.

[EVILPIG]

Don't think things like friendslists and alternate characters should be visible. Outfit activity perhaps only for outfit members.

On top of that, I think in general players should be asked in game if it is okay to disclose their own information in public in the first place.

I wasn't aware that alternate characters were available. That is a huge no no in my book.

[Figment]

I wasn't aware that alternate characters were available. That is a huge no no in my book.

Don't think they are, but just saying where I'd draw the line. Haven't really taken a good look at the API, no time.

[Hamma]

I wasn't aware that alternate characters were available. That is a huge no no in my book.

Don't think things like friendslists and alternate characters should be visible. Outfit activity perhaps only for outfit members.

On top of that, I think in general players should be asked in game if it is okay to disclose their own information in public in the first place.

They have no way to know who your alts are. There is no access to station names. Your alts are in the API but there's no way to know who they are.

[EVILPIG]

They have no way to know who your alts are. There is no access to station names. Your alts are in the API but there's no way to know who they are.

Phwew. Frankly, that would be upsetting. Sometimes it is nice to just play and not be recognized.

[ringring]

I think it will only be problematical for those outfits that have 'operations nights' but are fairly inactive at other times, ie there is a big difference in numbers online - AND - when on their ops nights have enough numbers to roll whichever enemy they target.

Otherwise no.

[bpostal]

I don't see that as a huge flaw. If an Op is successful, it's going to be fairly obvious that it occurred. Plus if the bad, evil guys (those in Blue and Purple) figure out your op tempo the only real downside are huge fights.
I don't really see that as a downside anyway. Unless I missed your point completely.

[Neurotoxin]

Its a team game. If it is a worthwhile target, other outfits will show up there.

Outfit members online does not reflect the composition of the platoon(s) they are running, so it isn't really a useful indicator of incoming enemy strength.

[Gonefshn]

I don't think the API is invasive.

Knowing how many are online doesn't matter much because thre can always be other players in a different outfit there as well

[EVILPIG]

Its a team game. If it is a worthwhile target, other outfits will show up there.

Outfit members online does not reflect the composition of the platoon(s) they are running, so it isn't really a useful indicator of incoming enemy strength.

Don't speak in absolutes. Also, don't get too caught up on that example. There is other information that may be too invasive.

Unrelated, I hope you are in Vegas I never got my Chocolate Stout!

[typhaon]

If we ever get to the point in the game where there are outfit-owned bases/territory that really matter... like they provide substantial bonuses, etc.. or took a long time to build/decorate/whatever - then I could see your point.

As the game stand now - no. It's a farm-fest... nobody really cares if your outfit has 25 or 250 people online.

[Roy Awesome]

As an outfit leader, I understand your sentiment. TEST has a 25% active ratio which seems like a big deal but doesn't actually tell the whole story. It's very easy for outside observers to make a judgement based on numbers when they have no bearing on the internal workings of an outfit.

Does it make the stats invasive? I don't think so. I usually just laugh at the people who get it wrong. TEST has never recruited someone from inside Planetside 2, we all come from an out of game community. We had a ton of people that tried the game for a few hours then never logged in again. When people tell me that we just openly recruit, frankly I call them idiots.

Stats can only tell you so much, and the joke is on you if you believe that a set of data is the whole story when it comes to anything related to playstyle. Individuals that understand that are the ones you want looking at your stats and analyzing the community. Individuals that go 'LOL NOOB OUTFIT ONLY 15 PLAYERS ONLINE' are just to be ignored or ridiculed.

[bpostal]

As a platoon leader in a larger outfit, sometimes the hardest fuckers to nail down are those in smaller outfits. If you're not careful they'll bounce as soon as they see you coming and if you're especially not careful in player management they can tie up forces two to three times their size playing a little game I like to call 'Hide and go fuck yourself'

[Riekopo]

Yes it is invasive. I understand that I signed a contract with SOE, but I don't want my player information to be public on the internet. It is public on this website.

[maradine]

How, exactly, is that different?

[Sirisian]

I don't feel like the API went far enough. Honestly to pull out any really interesting data I've had to write software that polls the character data hourly into a local database. By itself the actual statistical data they give you is rather tame. I can't think of anything they offer that bothers me. I don't take games seriously though.

[Hamma]

Yes it is invasive. I understand that I signed a contract with SOE, but I don't want my player information to be public on the internet. It is public on this website.

This website and many others.

Does your virtual characters information being public have any effect on your life? I don't think it does.

[Tatwi]

This website and many others.

Does your virtual characters information being public have any effect on your life? I don't think it does.

"Hey Johnston, I see you spent 41 hours last week playing that Planetstyle game, but you've turned down over time for the last couple months. Starting tomorrow you'll be working 48 hour weeks and if you'd like to keep this job, sign this form that indicates you're willingness to waive over time pay".

Along the same lines, I've read that many potential employers demand read potential recruits private facebook and other social media pages to even be considered for the position.

Sadly, this sort of crap really does happen to people all the time. Welcome to 1984, I guess. :(

But anyhow, that's the general idea of how "your virtual characters information being public have any effect on your life".

[Babyfark McGeez]

"Hey Johnston, I see you spent 41 hours last week playing that Planetstyle game, but you've turned down over time for the last couple months. Starting tomorrow you'll be working 48 hour weeks and if you'd like to keep this job, sign this form that indicates you're willingness to waive over time pay".

Along the same lines, I've read that many potential employers demand read potential recruits private facebook and other social media pages to even be considered for the position.

Sadly, this sort of crap really does happen to people all the time. Welcome to 1984, I guess. :(

But anyhow, that's the general idea of how "your virtual characters information being public have any effect on your life".

While you are right about the increased invasive behaviour of (bad) employers, it still comes down to your personal relation to him.

You don't (read: should not) use your real life name in an online video game, so it''s in your personal judgement wether you want to make that connection to your (public) real life persona.
Personally i choose to avoid it when possible.

[maradine]

Indeed. And for the record, the "OMG employer wants my social media passwords" is illegal in my state, and proposed illegal nationwide as per the Social Networking Online Protection Act. (http://op.bna.com/tpif.nsf/id/mlon-94nrgd/$File/Social%20Networking%20Online%20Protection%20Act.pd f)

[Hamma]

Sorry that's hardly an argument. If an employer starts asking for your game character names you may want to consider finding a new employer.

Your kills, deaths and time played are not private information and there is no expectation of privacy with this sort of data.

[MyOdessa]

Of all the real internet privacy issues, game stats are not even in the neighborhood.
I could not care less about my game stats or what anyone think of them.